Spoilers With Speculation

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

 

I want Dean Winchester remembered for who he was and what he accomplished,

 

Getting that across would have been the job of the Finale, though. Since that was a big far void, now it has given way to people fighting over if the empty air in the void is made out of cheese or spinach. Here is a clue: it's neither, it's just empty air.

[PAForrest]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

ETA: One thing is good - Jensen said he had someone record that scene on his phone, so even if it never sees the light of day, there is irrefutable 'proof' out there of what they said before the cameras.

Yeah, that hashtag - wow, it's been trending all day. Between the episode backlash and this, I'm not sure this is what the CW was hoping for at the end of this 15 year journey.

I did find it really interesting that Jensen wanted someone to record on his own phone everything that was said and done in that scene. Probably it was because it was Misha's big emotional scene and they're good friends and he wanted it saved. But the way he talked about recording it, it also sounded like he knew it would get cut, for any number of reasons. So the fact that he has evidence of the entire scene can be either good or bad, depending on what you want to hear. I'm not sure he's going to share it with fans anytime soon, or ever. But if lines were cut, chances are they were Dean's. I think Castiel pretty much says it all - I'd find it hard to believe any of that was cut or went on even longer than it already did.

3 hours ago, PinkChicken said:

Another one of the bigger existing theories based on the numbers on the tweeted quote of the day boards and fed off of the overall quality of the finale whether you are a shipper or not, is that 11 scenes are completely missing from episode 20 as a way to explain all the montages and weirdness (which could also be put down to COVID restraints) (I didn't go check the count myself). I do think though, that if your finale is so bad that that many people could honestly believe you're missing 11 scenes you've messed up somewhere whether its true or not.

There was also a rumour that Mark P & Alex filmed their last scene together with Misha...

WRT to what Pellegrino said, I honestly think that was just a mistake his part. His last scene was in the bunker with Alex and Jake, playing Jack and Michael. I think it's very likely he mixed up Michael and Castiel as the other angel who was there. Probably as simple as that.

As for missing scenes, I've been told that the minute count for the episode is super short - much shorter than the usual 42 or so minutes they run. If that's the case, and I frankly don't doubt it, not with all that montage padding, then yes, it's obvious a lot of stuff was cut. And it's also obvious stuff was cut from Dean's side of the story. The guy dies, you don't see him again for 10 minutes, he shows up, tosses off a handful of lines with Bobby, then spends the rest of his part of the episode being unseen driving the car from a drone. If you didn't know Jensen drove the car, you could just as easily assume it was a stunt driver. Jensen got screwed nine ways to Sunday with this script - no pun intended. Dabb & Co. had f'ing months to figure out more do to here - they didn't bother.

OR the CW continued to demand changes, and it came down to the wire and Dabb said, fuck it, cut it all and throw in an extra meaningless montage. Neither scenario is a good one. The editing is terrible in this episode, especially from this point. This is why Dean's "heaven" is a failure - we see no peace and no happiness here because nothing at all is done with it.

Now, I really don't consider Dabb to be a deep writer, as you know - but someone pointed out to me today that the monsters in this episode, who were supposed to be run of the mill vamps, don't react that way at all. What do they do - they slit throats and cut out tongues. In other words, they silence their victims. Considering the hashtag that is trending today, IF Dabb was a deeper writer than I normally consider him to be, that would sure look like a message to the CW. Most likely it's just a strange coincidence - but the changes done to the vampires in this episode are weird.

And like I said, the man is not a huge brothers fan - he's always been more interested in his OCs. He certainly never indicated he ever landed on the Wincest side of the pond. Yet this episode is not only Wincest, it's seriously queer, especially when you view it from Sam's side of the storyline. If Dabb was angry at all about being told to remove any hint of Destiel or even as much as just having Cas in the episode for a final "Hello Dean" cameo, it could look like the man said, 'Mr. Pedowitz, you want brothers, oh I'll give you as queer and incestuous a relationship as you'll ever see on television, and you won't even know what you're looking at.'

Again, the guy would have to be deeper than I have ever seen him be the entire time he's been showrunner to be sending that message. But if he was someone else, and if there was a fight with the network, a lot of stuff could look super suspicious in this episode.

Edited November 25, 2020 by PAForrest

[Myrelle]

54 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And sadly, I think both of them (MC and Badd) are sitting back and loving it. Any attention is good attention if you're needy enough.

I doubt Dabb is loving it. 

I think he made a big mistake.

But yeah, this kind of stuff has become MC's bread and butter, from what I've seen and IMO.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Myrelle

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I doubt Dabb is loving it. 

I think he made a big mistake.

But yeah, this kind of stuff has become MC's bread and butter, from what I've seen and IMO.

He'd be loving it if he really did try to get Destiel in it and had his hands tied, even after approving a script and shooting it (if the theories can be believed). He's a hero and a martyr to the Destiel people, and an actual hero to the Sam/Wincest/Bronlie people (because lets face it, they are really just Sam fans - Dean is only as valuable to the ship as his praise/worship of his brother is at any given moment).

[gonzosgirrl]

36 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

As for missing scenes, I've been told that the minute count for the episode is super short - much shorter than the usual 42 or so minutes they run.

It's 41:40 (I clipped it for my own collection), which is about par for any hour long episode, give or take 30 seconds. There is almost always time wasted with the opening montage, so I don't think this is any different than normal. Of course they could have padded the driving scenes to make up for any cuts in the finale, but who knows for sure.

36 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

I did find it really interesting that Jensen wanted someone to record on his own phone everything that was said and done in that scene.

He did say they took pics and video with his phone. Hopefully the pics didn't interfere with any of the dialogue - not that I think it will ever see the light of day publicly.

 

ETA: Yeah, there's no way this ends badly for Jensen. 😕

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

26 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's 41:40 (I clipped it for my own collection), which is about par for any hour long episode, give or take 30 seconds. There is almost always time wasted with the opening montage, so I don't think this is any different than normal. Of course they could have padded the driving scenes to make up for any cuts in the finale, but who knows for sure.

He did say they took pics and video with his phone. Hopefully the pics didn't interfere with any of the dialogue - not that I think it will ever see the light of day publicly.

 

ETA: Yeah, there's no way this ends badly for Jensen. 😕

 

Hopefully, everyone will move on sooner rather than later.

[Res]

28 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Hopefully, everyone will move on sooner rather than later.

When does the next season of the Boys premerie?

[ukgirl71]

I think it starts filming in February?

[Aeryn13]

9 minutes ago, Res said:

When does the next season of the Boys premerie?

It could be only in 2022 so a long while. But, I mean, people on social media will surely move on to something else way before that. Now the Finale (and the horror) is still relatively fresh but I think within a month or so the worst of it will die down.

[ILoveReading]

This whole situation is a huge mess and sadly, I can pinpoint who the scapegoat is going to end up being.

[gonzosgirrl]

This all makes me want to cry more than the finale did. I hope the cowards behind it all (aka Badd & Company) stand up and answer if the media gets involved beyond this. I won't hold my breath though. I can easily see the  &^%$& sitting in his mother's basement getting off to all this attention.

[Binns]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

This whole situation is a huge mess and sadly, I can pinpoint who the scapegoat is going to end up being.

Oh, NO. 

[PAForrest]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's 41:40 (I clipped it for my own collection), which is about par for any hour long episode, give or take 30 seconds. There is almost always time wasted with the opening montage, so I don't think this is any different than normal. Of course they could have padded the driving scenes to make up for any cuts in the finale, but who knows for sure.

Thanks for the confirmation. I think it was actual content time this person was referring to? I don't know, I haven't watched it again and I still don't know if or when that will happen. The whole driving montage is obvious padding, I assumed that the first time around.

[Whimsy]

Since the show is over and there’s nothing left to speculate, this thread is now locked.