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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Lemuria

Lemuria

7 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I gotta say a hybrid between a fly and a human sounds really goofy for a monster. And looks goofy in the promo. At least go for broke and call it a "Goldblum". 

I lean more toward a "Hedison"; he did it first, after all.  "Help me-e-e-e-e!"

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BoxManLocke

BoxManLocke

Quote

OUT OF THE DARKNESS – When Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) join forces with an unexpected ally, the outcome will alter the course of two lives. Meanwhile, Heaven faces an attack from a dark force, driving Castiel to make an enormous sacrifice to make things right. The episode was directed by Eduardo Sanchez and written by Meredith Glynn (#1408). Original Airdate 12/6/2018.

 

Damn guys, we're in December, it's time to move the plot ! Typical.

So this is the midseason finale ?

 

Poor Cass getting stuck in B-plot after barely showing up until then.

 

Hoping the lives being altered are AU people getting killed

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S Cook Productions

S Cook Productions

1 hour ago, BoxManLocke said:

 

Damn guys, we're in December, it's time to move the plot ! Typical.

So this is the midseason finale ?

 

Poor Cass getting stuck in B-plot after barely showing up until then.

 

Hoping the lives being altered are AU people getting killed

I wonder if the enormous sacrifice Cas makes is giving up his grace to help run heaven? I can see him doing that to teach Jack a lesson that it’s not so bad. Also, maybe some foreshadowing in tonight’s episode when Dean says to Jack, “you have an insurance policy when Cas is on hunts with you.” (Or something to that effect) 

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BoxManLocke

BoxManLocke

Sam and Cass teaming up to find help for Jack while Dean stays by his side honestly had the potential to be a great episode. The material certainly is there.

 

Too bad BuckLeming had to BuckLeming and throw their little pet Nick in there.

 

I mean I think the best combination would be Dean/Cass and Sam/Jack but the show seems very insistent on pretending those bonds never existed in the first place.

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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

20 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Sam and Cass teaming up to find help for Jack while Dean stays by his side honestly had the potential to be a great episode. The material certainly is there.

 

Too bad BuckLeming had to BuckLeming and throw their little pet Nick in there.

 

I mean I think the best combination would be Dean/Cass and Sam/Jack but the show seems very insistent on pretending those bonds never existed in the first place.

Weeellll, Cas has become a bit of a loser, I think he and Sam are quite well suited for each other, stroking their respective egos and all.

Jack and Dean's relationship on the other hand is like an unpolished diamond - given the way Dean (Jensen?) has chemistry with everyone (except Mary (Sam Smith?)) they could totally develop a really cool thing, espcially seeing how they got off on a very rocky start.

Just for the love of all that's holy don't anybody come up with Dean/Jack! /o\ (I hope I didn't jinx it now...)

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catrox14

catrox14

1 hour ago, juppschmitz said:

Weeellll, Cas has become a bit of a loser, I think he and Sam are quite well suited for each other, stroking their respective egos and all.

Cas hasn't had ego issues since s6. He had self esteem problems in s11 leading him to say yes to Lucifer but other than that I don't remember Cas being particularly ego driven.

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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Cas hasn't had ego issues since s6. He had self esteem problems in s11 leading him to say yes to Lucifer but other than that I don't remember Cas being particularly ego driven.

Ok, make that stroking theit respective ego/self esteem.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)
4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Cas hasn't had ego issues since s6. He had self esteem problems in s11 leading him to say yes to Lucifer but other than that I don't remember Cas being particularly ego driven.

Yeah Cas is fine--silly to call him a loser...neither is Sam actually.  Cas in B plot with Heaven sounds good--he also end up hanging with Sam then Dean later, so he will be involved in all that is coming up.  Is intriguing what his sacrifice is--not death since he's in many episodes coming up...losing his grace like some say is possible.  And what is dark force attacking heaven?  Michael?  Something else?

Edited by Jakes
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catrox14

catrox14

Thinking more on why TPTB would put Mobby alone at a cabin and having Dean go there to check up on them was weird as was discussed in the "Optimism" ep thread.

Now this is some wild spec but with TPTB saying something happens that dramatically affects Dean that is worse than the possession IIRC , could it be that Michael!Dean went to the cabin and did something to Mary and/or Not Bobby?  Or if Michael did leave Dean, but Dean did go to see them, but Michael still controls him or affects him so he does something he cant remember a la the Nicksuit.

Maybe Donna doesnt hear from them so she goes to check on them, or expects them to be gone, so she goes there and finds Mary dead and Not Bobby gravely wounded who says it was Dean and he dies. Or maybe Nick kills them because he runs into them for reasons, he has muscle memory of the hatred Mary felt for him or Lucifer's influence and memories flash and he is compelled to kill one or both and set up Dean? I mean that would totally be a Blemming thing to do.

Like I said wild spec that gives the writers more credit than I should.

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PAForrest

PAForrest

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Now this is some wild spec but with TPTB saying something happens that dramatically affects Dean that is worse than the possession IIRC , could it be that Michael!Dean went to the cabin and did something to Mary and/or Not Bobby?  Or if Michael did leave Dean, but Dean did go to see them, but Michael still controls him or affects him so he does something he cant remember a la the Nicksuit.

Maybe Donna doesnt hear from them so she goes to check on them, or expects them to be gone, so she goes there and finds Mary dead and Not Bobby gravely wounded who says it was Dean and he dies. Or maybe Nick kills them because he runs into them for reasons, he has muscle memory of the hatred Mary felt for him or Lucifer's influence and memories flash and he is compelled to kill one or both and set up Dean? I mean that would totally be a Blemming thing to do.

Like I said wild spec that gives the writers more credit than I should.

As much as I LOVE the idea of someone slaughtering Mary, I fear TPTB feel they can't kill Mary, again, even though they know a lot of fandom doesn't like her. Heh.

However, I do like the idea expressed in the Optimism thread that maybe Dean (as Michael or under Michael's control) just used that as a cover for doing something else. Since no one is allowed to hunt unless Commandant Samuel says so, maybe that was the only excuse Dean/Michael/combo thereof could come up with to explain being away - thus why it makes no sense.

But, yeah, I do think we're giving these writers way too much credit for deep thinking.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

I would forgive Dabb quite a lot if Michael was actually in Dean and suppressing his memory whilst carrying out assorted deeds (and misdeeds) under everyone's noses. But alas, I also think that is giving Dabb* way too much credit for original, interesting storytelling.

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7kstar

7kstar

I'm afraid that everything is just like it seems, not really going anywhere.  Jack may die but I'm not invested so if he does okay.  Nick may be evil and just doesn't know it, but then again...I don't really care.

I want to like Mary but how they bring her back and use her doesn't make me care. 

Jack driving the car to Los Vegas might be the fun part but could also be a dream...

So far this season is a dud for me.  I don't get it, past seasons felt like they had something to tell, this one feels like hey let's mix this with that and see if it sticks.  I don't mind some Wayward Sisters but so far nothing feels as if they are doing anything interesting for long-term fans.  I can't even tell you what I'm supposed to know this season and that's not good. 

Michael lasted two eps?

Kia who?

Leader Sam?

Nick?

Nothing feels connected to me and usually, I can pull it together but I'm having trouble remembering much about this season.  I don't even have the interest to play the game where might they go because this season seems so aimless to me. 

It feels like it is aimed at those fans that  Binge-watch.  I know if I just watched the few sections I liked and didn't have to wait for the next one, I don't know I would be so unhappy with what I'm seeing as I would miss all the things we wonder about.  I know when I watch soaps, for instance, I don't worry about what they will do, and can stop watching for months and pick back up without too much trouble.  Maybe they think this is the model for younger viewers?

Sometimes I wonder if they think that they did so awesome with X storyline or show...like FanFiction or French Mistake and as long as they do one or two like that, then all is well.   But this season it feels instead of a show it is a scene or two.  I'm shutting up because if I keep going this is the wrong thread.  Maybe it's just me...shakes head and leaves.

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BoxManLocke

BoxManLocke

Quote

Question: Can you tell us if Castiel will be in Supernatural‘s 300th episode? Anyone else we’ll be excited to see? —Shannon
Ausiello: The answer to your first question is you betcha. “There’s a little bit of time travel that comes into play in the 300th episode, and we’ll see a different version of Cas,” his portrayer Misha Collins reveals. As for whether any familiar faces will return for the milestone installment, executive producer Brad Buckner would only say with a smile, “Maybe.”

From TVLine

 

Heh.

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SueB

SueB

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I wonder if they got Jeffery Dean Morgan.  That would be awesome.  And I'll be pissed if they spoil it.  BUT, with JDM that's SUCH a big press opportunity -- I don't know how they keep a lid on it.  Still, I don't see how they do that without him being either a ghost or something transient.  Which makes it very bittersweet.  Could be young John (time travel).

If they are time traveling, there's a good chance their using Angel grace -- so maybe Alex is up and running?  

I liked Misha's comments to KSiteTV -- the locals in Lebanon think they are all a bunch of unibombers out there in the bunker.  I'm thinking the townies aren't actually wrong.  

One possible option -- something goes wrong and they have to go back in time to protect the town by setting up something in the past.  I could see that.  It would be kinda cool to have the Winchesters be the reason the town is safe.  Tricky to avoid mucking up anything else, but possible.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)

Perhaps others have thought of this as well, but I'm wondering if they already had Mark P signed for S14 and THEN decided to kill Lucifer.  If that's the case, then they are leveraging his already-guaranteed salary with a Nick backstory to show the impact of possession.  OR to keep the Lucifer threat open.

OTOH, if they renewed him AFTER they planned on killing Lucifer, then the spec that they are going to pull Luci out of the Empty makes sense.  With bringing Cas back from the Empty, they've really opened up the "anyone can come back".

Which made me realize... Cas makes some sacrifice to help heaven.  I wonder if he makes a deal with the Entity in the Empty to repopulate Heaven with Angels in exchange for laying down and going to sleep.  Which would require him being dead.  But that could also be the angle by which Luci comes back.  Maybe Cas gets out of the deal in the immediate future (or buys time) and the Entity wakes and releases Lucifer just to piss Cas off.  

Now how that pans out and yet Cas is STILL in the 300th episode -- acting like normal Cas (with a time travel twist) -- well, I don't know.  

Bottom Line: Mark P still being a regular and his role kinda hinges (IMO) on when they renewed his contract for S14 (was it a S13/S14 two year deal at the beginning just to guarantee his presence?) relative to when they decided to kill Lucifer.

ETA: I would REALLY love it if Cas recovered the angels.  He really regrets his Godstiel time.  But of course ONLY if Cas is back on our screens as OUR Cas when it's over.  Yes, I'm demanding.  Don't care.  

Edited by SueB
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Lemuria

Lemuria

(edited)

SueB, Here’s my problem with that: Whatever Cas’ guilt and/or remorse over the current condition of Heaven might be, if he lets Lucifer out again,  then there really isn’t any hope for the character and he’s way more of a liability than an asset, and it’s time for him to go away. Permanently. 

Edited by Lemuria
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7kstar

7kstar

7 minutes ago, SueB said:

ETA: I would REALLY love it if Cas recovered the angels.  He really regrets his Godstiel time.  But of course ONLY if Cas is back on our screens as OUR Cas when it's over.  Yes, I'm demanding.  Don't care.  

 

I can agree with this.  It could be interesting if they really give Cas something to do besides wringing his hands.  I could even understand if they had put Mark P on contract for 13 & 14 and so they need to use him to fulfill the contract.  Because the should have learned by now that if you don't put someone on contract and their career takes off you can't get them when you want and I don't think they like to write Lucifer except for Mark P.

 

I wouldn't mind if the locked Lucifer in a cage in heaven using his energy to keep heaven running.  I mean they did lock up Metatron and Gadreel so why not Lucifer?  That gets him off the screen but keeps him available when they want to try to use him again.  My biggest complaint it cheapens the whole Michael is the big bad once again.  I won't say more as I've stated my side clearly in the bitter spec thread. 

With the 300 being rewritten, I hope it lands better than the opening of this season.  I want them to have a win with all the fans, not just some.  I can deal with a lot if it is a well-told story...so show prove me wrong.  I would love to eat my words.

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catrox14

catrox14

Given that Lucifer died with Jack's Grace,he should be able to resurrect himself in the Empty. I would think it interesting if The Empty Keeper held onto Cas form and thas a faceoff with resurrected Lucifer. I would far prefer Lucifer or Michael to use dead angels rather than Cas who even if he wanted to fix Heaven,  knows that the dick angels are a problem and he would have no reason to trust them at all.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Press release for the mid-Season Finale:

Quote

SUPERNATURAL
“The Spear” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

THE BEST LAID PLANS – Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) enlist the help of their pal Garth (guest star DJ Qualls) to gain inside information on what Michael may be planning. The brothers split up to each go after weapons that can aid in their fight against the Archangel, but this may be a fight our heroes cannot win. The episode was directed by Amyn Kaderali and written by Robert Berens 

source

Not remotely a fan of Berens. Strange that Kaia isn`t listed. I thought it would be a given with the title. But I know the actress has another gig so who knows. 

From shooting we know the brothers split up. I think Jensen and Misha shot some scene(s) together. So one weapon is a given, what is the other one? And who is looking for what?

With Michael suddenly playing a role, if he is in the episode, I think it would be safe to say he is in Nick since Pellegrino is supposedly in the ep also. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
11 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Press release for the mid-Season Finale:

source

Not remotely a fan of Berens. Strange that Kaia isn`t listed. I thought it would be a given with the title. But I know the actress has another gig so who knows. 

From shooting we know the brothers split up. I think Jensen and Misha shot some scene(s) together. So one weapon is a given, what is the other one? And who is looking for what?

With Michael suddenly playing a role, if he is in the episode, I think it would be safe to say he is in Nick since Pellegrino is supposedly in the ep also. 

According to Jared there is supposed to be a big fight in this ep.  So if it's against Michael they'll need somone to play him.  So yup, Mark P.

Edited by ILoveReading
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

According to Jared there is supposed to be a big fight in this ep.  So if it's against Michael they'll need somone to play him.  So yup, Mark P.

True. Urgh. Unless it`s supposed to be another multiple hunters vs. supermonsters fight.  

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BoxManLocke

BoxManLocke

Hahaha Sam and Dean split up again, in the finale this time, after the same thing happened in like 5 episodes out of 8 before that.

 

I criticize this writing staff a whole lot, but I admit it's got to be hard to manage when the co-stars want their work load to be cut in half, while the network won't cut the episode order accordingly.

 

20 eps is WAY too much for the amount of free time J² wanted this year, but it seems CW isn't ready to stop milking this cash cow as much as humanly possible.

 

Btw, Garth is dead. I'm sure the emotional toll will be MASSIVE for a character we haven't seen in ages and for which the show never gave much of a crap about after season 7.

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Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

15 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

Hahaha Sam and Dean split up again, in the finale this time, after the same thing happened in like 5 episodes out of 8 before that.

 

I criticize this writing staff a whole lot, but I admit it's got to be hard to manage when the co-stars want their work load to be cut in half, while the network won't cut the episode order accordingly.

 

20 eps is WAY too much for the amount of free time J² wanted this year, but it seems CW isn't ready to stop milking this cash cow as much as humanly possible.

 

Btw, Garth is dead. I'm sure the emotional toll will be MASSIVE for a character we haven't seen in ages and for which the show never gave much of a crap about after season 7.

Garth is dead? WTF?

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Sneak peak

It`s Sam/Rowena, probably very early in the ep. I find it kind of sweet that she was rushing over because she thought Dean had a magical sickness. But it has already been spoiled that she will immediately fall for the bouncy-bouncy booboo-babyness they are doing with Jack.  

Quote

Garth is dead? WTF?

I think it means:  character from Seasons back they are suddenly bringing back? yup, he is so dead (as in they are gonna kill him off).  

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
14 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sneak peak

It`s Sam/Rowena, probably very early in the ep. I find it kind of sweet that she was rushing over because she thought Dean had a magical sickness. But it has already been spoiled that she will immediately fall for the bouncy-bouncy booboo-babyness they are doing with Jack.  

I think it means:  character from Seasons back they are suddenly bringing back? yup, he is so dead (as in they are gonna kill him off).  

This is the ep they were filming in a hospital.  So if the Rowena stuff is early on, then the hospital stuff must be more toward the end.  I'm guessing something back is going to happen to Jack on Dean's and Jack's road trip.  More guilt for Dean also fits the spoiler that something takes a bigger tole on Dean

Edited by ILoveReading
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
Quote

This is the ep they were filming in a hospital.  So if the Rowena stuff is early on, then the hospital stuff must be more toward the end.  I'm guessing something back is going to happen to Jack on Dean's and Jack's road trip.  More guilt for Dean also fits the spoiler that something takes a bigger tole on Dean

I could see the hospital being the earliest because the normal progression in these cases is: modern medicine - magical. I think something like that was even in the spoiler article somewhere. So it might start out with the hospital scenes but Jack gets well enough to check out again with a "terminal" prognosis. Kinda like Dean in Faith. Then they call Rowena, she gives the magical check-up. Jack wants to go on his road trip while Sam and Cas search for a shaman or something. The solution to Jack`s problem will most likely come from Rowena. 

Now I do believe the Dean/Jack road trip will just be busybody side stuff with emo moments where Dean feels guilty about how he was so mean to the poor wounded baby bird. But I don`t believe the trip itself will be framed as wrong, simply because Jack wants it and according to show, he should be treated with kid gloves and be allowed what he wants at all times. Yes, there is Sam`s line from the promo about the good idea bit but in this case I`m not sure it will be a total net negative since it`s Jack`s idea. Even if Jack collapses during it, it will be framed as sweet caretaking. 

I`m much more worried about the content of the Nick scenes. I fear Bucklemming writing extraordinaire there. Like saying yes to Michael.  

Quote

More guilt for Dean also fits the spoiler that something takes a bigger tole on Dean

From the Lemming interview, wasn`t it? I think she just generally meant the supermonsters as traps for hunters and that Dean would feel guilty about that. They referenced that in all the episodes and will likely continue to do so. Meanwhile I think the Jack thing is just culminating in this episode. 

Edited by Aeryn13
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

Maybe Michael *has* been hiding out in Dean and now he'll make the leap to Nichaelfer, replete with all of the knowledge he's gained these past few weeks using Dean's identity. That would make Dean both weak, ineffectual and guilt-ridden while raising Pellegrino to legend status. Sounds about right for BuckLemming and Dabb*

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

Does anyone remember who posted the pic of them all in a hospital? 

The spoiler tumblr has pics of them all in an unfinished set but in the last pic you can see that set dressing is gonna make it into a hospital waiting area. 

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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

Oh, Rowena, your unapologetic cynicism was sorely missed amongst the syrupy swamp of soapiness that this show has become! Finally, a character who doesn't worship at Jack's feet and has a specific reason to be wary of him. Finally, a character who rushes over in genuine urgency and worry for Dean, more so than Sam, Cas, or Mary have shown (how sad is that?).

I do feel like Rowena's still going to bow to the power of Nougat Boy eventually, but I'll enjoy her cynicism while it lasts.

Also, can Jared QUIT with the stuttering? It's actually become distracting now, and it makes this 30+ man come across as an anxious, unseasoned kid. It certainly doesn't gel with the whole "great leader" thing.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

So according to the post on the spoiler tumblr the pic was posted September 25th.  It seemed Misha tweeted it originally, so I double checked the date on his twitter.  Its was also posted the 25th.  So I double checked that with Jason's quote of the day for that date.  They list scenes.  Since the sneak peek is usually the scene right after the title card, I'd say the hospital stuff is scene 32.   Which is toward the end of the ep.

So I still think something is going happen so Dean will feel more guilt and chief gets to be right.

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