Spoilers With Speculation

[AwesomO4000]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Right now I would make a crossroads deal for it not to be OW Michael.

Was this a typo or me misunderstanding or do we actually agree on something?

I've been hoping for something - almost anything - other than Dean/Our World Michael since I first heard about Dean becoming someone else. I don't like Our World Michael and wouldn't want Dean to have to be that dick.

One of the only worse things would be Dean/Alternate Universe Michael. I still can't think of a good reason for Dean to become Alternate Universe Michael... only bad ones. Really, really bad ones. So if OW Michael = Other World Michael, then we still agree - even moreso.

Except I would prefer no Michael at all... please go away you annoying jerk... My preferred scenario is for both Alternate World Michael and Lucifer to end up in the cage with Our World Michael where they can whine to and bully each other for all eternity.

I'm still hoping for Death/Dean, but the clothes are throwing me... Besides Elliot Ness, the only other person/entity I can think of from that time would be Chronos... Dean wouldn't make some sort of deal with a resurrected Chronos to alter the timeline somehow would he? Nah... just wild ass speculation on my part.

[SueB]

Chuck didn't have to lie about Michael.  If Michael was a mess because of his Daddy issues, a talk from Dad was not going to get him in fighting shape in a timely fashion.  

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

If Michael was a mess because of his Daddy issues, a talk from Dad was not going to get him in fighting shape in a timely fashion.  

Why would Michael be a mess with Daddy issues?

[Castiels Cat]

22 minutes ago, SueB said:

Chuck didn't have to lie about Michael.  If Michael was a mess because of his Daddy issues, a talk from Dad was not going to get him in fighting shape in a timely fashion.  

Yep.  This too.  And I agree with this interpretation.   Everything he was raised to do and trained for snatched away on a whim because daddy took a shine to a new boy.

 

Chuck implied he was beyond help when this sounds more like Chuck not wanting to deal though...  kind of a lie.  Chuck did not want to deal with the emotional aftermath of his choices at all....

Which is how Amara ended up so angry by the end of the season 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Castiels Cat

[ILoveReading]

There's a bad moon on the rise.

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

There's a bad moon on the rise.

I swear to Chuck if Jensen's new role is somehow Azazel, Imma flip some tables.

[Aeryn13]

Azazel would be the most random thing in random-land. Which is not to say they won`t do it but it would be so totally out of left field. At least with AU!Michael around, there is a Michael-ish presence. 

Now either Dabb doesn`t know what Bad Moon Rising means in terms of Supernatural. And he just picked it to be ominous and because the episode deals with some "end of the world" stuff, see AU!Michael saying "this is the end". Or he does know and it is supposed to harken back to a super-cliffhanger. Where Sam screams for a "dead" Dean and in place of John, we would have Mary in the scene. Obviously not in Baby but something that Dabb believes parallels this. 

Personally I`d go with version 1. Singer would probably remember Season 1 but Dabb? Eh.

Also, "I hear the voice of rage and ruin" - makes me think of the scene in the gas station where Cas and Sam noticeably cover their ears while Dean does not. Either he hears AU!Michael or Michael there. It would make sense that he could listen to the voice with no problem while the others could not. 

I`d still also find it very weird if he was AU!Michael in the end. The guy attacks the bunker, probably gives Dean the bloody lip. Then we have promo pics of Dean WITH the bloody lip but obviously still Dean. Then of course there is the flying squirrel fight with Lucifer. Who also comes to the bunker to chat. 

So am I supposed to believe Michael attacks them there (clearly after the gas station), then leaves again somehow, then (or before) Lucifer comes in but he leaves, too. And then somehow there is a fight with Lucifer later. 

It only makes sense if AU!Michael is defeated right there in the bunker. Maybe by Jack. Then for Lucifer to show up and do something to Jack, otherwise Jack should be able to kick his ass later.     

Edited May 17, 2018 by Aeryn13

[Casseiopeia]

23 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I swear to Chuck if Jensen's new role is somehow Azazel, Imma flip some tables.

Sounds more like Death now. 

Dabb's last tweet for Exodus was about Lucifer driving the bus.  So it might not mean anything.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Casseiopeia said:

Sounds more like Death now. 

Dabb's last tweet for Exodus was about Lucifer driving the bus.  So it might not mean anything.

I only went to Azazel because he featured so prominently in Devil's Trap. There is just no logical way to have him come back (except from the other side, which would totally be pulled out of someone's ass). I still have my Michael/Death odds at 60/39.5  (with .5  for the possibility of 'other').

[Casseiopeia]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I only went to Azazel because he featured so prominently in Devil's Trap. There is just no logical way to have him come back (except from the other side, which would totally be pulled out of someone's ass). I still have my Michael/Death odds at 60/39.5  (with .5  for the possibility of 'other').

Oh that's true I didn't put Bad Moon together with Devils Trap.

[catrox14]

33 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I swear to Chuck if Jensen's new role is somehow Azazel, Imma flip some tables.

 The only way it can work is if Azazel gets out of the Empty. 

 Devil's Trap lead to Dean meeting Tessa which could foreshadow Dean as Death.

[belbar]

Might not have anything to do with Azazel. Though he was a big part of the episode, what really happened back then was the first disruption of the natural order in the show (if I don't remember wrong). Dean should have died in that car accident. John brought him back.

Maybe now we're getting the full circle, the restoration of the natural order with Dean's death.

[Aeryn13]

I think the first disruption of the natural order was in Faith when someone else died in Dean`s place. 

It`s probably just Dabb thinking the lyrics fit an "apocalyptic" scenario. Which will suddenly spring about in this Finale.  

 

Btw: the "big announcement" that was speculated on yesterday? Batwoman is coming in the DC x-over. I knew it was gonna have to do solely with the DC-verse shows.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

 

Inside the episode

[Aeryn13]

So they are even packing in monster-hunt montages with vampires? To set up Jack as their new roaring weapon? Gee, it`s not like the Finale wasn`t going to be crammed enough.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

So they are even packing in monster-hunt montages with vampires? To set up Jack as their new roaring weapon? Gee, it`s not like the Finale wasn`t going to be crammed enough.

It also seems like vampires are the only monsters left in existence.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I swear to Chuck if Jensen's new role is somehow Azazel, Imma flip some tables.

Why?  He was a great villain.  What, specifically, is it that you are looking for in the alternate character that will be 'satisfying'? I don't understand. It's not Dean, so, wouldn't "complexity" be a good thing?

Edited May 17, 2018 by SueB

[belbar]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think the first disruption of the natural order was in Faith when someone else died in Dean`s place. 

 You're right. For a moment I forgot about that.

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

It`s probably just Dabb thinking the lyrics fit an "apocalyptic" scenario. Which will suddenly spring about in this Finale

And right again. Dabb certainly likes the teasing game.

[trxr4kids]

My wild speculation based solely on my opinion that Dabb is a proponent of "transformative fiction" is that Dean will be possessed by a female ninja robot from space. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

It also seems like vampires are the only monsters left in existence.

Haha, yes. I would say it is a subliminal message to watch all the actual vampire shows on the CW but they didn`t do that when they actually had more vamp shows on the CW.   

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, SueB said:

Why?  He was a great villain.  What, specifically, is it that you are looking for in the alternate character that will be 'satisfying'? I don't understand. It's not Dean, so, wouldn't "complexity" be a good thing?

For me, I'm against it because it's basically a redux of John's SL. Give Dean his own damn SL tied to Michael or Death.  Not a repurposing of another character's arc.  No thank you

[ILoveReading]

http://ew.com/tv/2018/05/17/supernatural-season-13-finale-jensen-ackles/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly&utm_medium=social

This is a little confusing. 

They've done stunt work before so I'm not sure why Jensen is saying they dabble in things they haven't. 

It sounds like whatever happens to Dean happens at the end and after the fight in the church.

It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't find out who Dean's new character is until next year.

Edited May 17, 2018 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

That Inside the Episode annoyed me. 

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

http://ew.com/tv/2018/05/17/supernatural-season-13-finale-jensen-ackles/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly&utm_medium=social

This is a little confusing. 

They've done stunt work before so I'm not sure why Jensen is saying they dabble in things they haven't. 

It sounds like whatever happens to Dean happens at the end and after the fight in the church.

head with Michael and Lucifer. And according to star J

Quote

ensen Ackles, this year’s finale will introduce “elements that we have never dabbled with in all 13 years of the show.” One of those things being stunt work. “Let’s say we elevated it this finale,” Ackles says of the stunts.

LOL. Jensen is such a little tease.  He must be talking about high flying wire work. More than just flipping them sideways or pinned against the wall.  But a lot of time in the air flying around. 
 

[Aeryn13]

Not enamored with the write-up. I had hoped Dean would get to "step up" for the world, not just because his "Sammy"-obessession. Hopefully, he won`t sell out for it. At least his soul was his to give but giving another entity power to wreak havoc would not be permissable. And he made the right choice multiple times before.

So if the cliffhanger at the end is random and separate, then what the hell powers him in the church fight against Lucifer? Jack is right there, he is the powered-up one. Maybe a spell from Rowena or something like that.

And why would he end up possessed by Rando McRanderson at the end then?

[ILoveReading]

Why are all the writers tweeting the hastag #SaltandBurn

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

So if the cliffhanger at the end is random and separate, then what the hell powers him in the church fight against Lucifer? Jack is right there, he is the powered-up one. Maybe a spell from Rowena or something like that.

I think Jack is powering him up TBH.  I think it might be like what Jack did in utero to power up Cas to kill Dagon. So Dean asks Jack to give him some powers and boom, Dean can "fly" sort of.

Or maybe Jack possesses Dean for reasons.....

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Why are all the writers tweeting the hastag #SaltandBurn

Salting and Burning down the Bunker?

Trolling fandom? That's my vote. I wouldn't be surprised. 

Or Heaven does die and the souls fall to Earth so it's salt and burn all the ghosts for next season?

Edited May 17, 2018 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Or Heaven does die and the souls fall to Earth so it's salt and burn all the ghosts for next season?

Not unlikely. Dabb said the problem would continue into next Season. Which could mean either remain a looming threat or having manifested into an outright menace. 

Though that would be so reminscent of the angels falling. And the veil overflowing with souls - a storyline that was pretty much dropped and forgotten, wasn`t it?

And then some random spirit "possesses" Dean? There is no soul in Heaven right now that is meaningful that way. Maybe John but that would be just weird. 

I had dared to hope some for the Finale, despite my best instinct. Should not have. from the sounds of it. 

[gonzosgirrl]

55 minutes ago, SueB said:

Why?  He was a great villain.  What, specifically, is it that you are looking for in the alternate character that will be 'satisfying'? I don't understand. It's not Dean, so, wouldn't "complexity" be a good thing?

Specifically, not being a demon unless he's Demon Dean.

[Jonesy]

Misha hints in interview at TVLine that the twist at the end(aka Jensen's new character) is the new big bad for season 14.   I still say its our Michael.  Also says Cas's state at end of season is fraught but also determined to move forward.

[Aeryn13]

With this new spoiler, I hope to hell Dean dies and then somehow is revived and possessed. Then I could enjoy Jensen playing the Big Bad without Dean bartering the world away for personal gain.  

[gonzosgirrl]

I do look forward to seeing Jensen stretch his wings as a (possible big) bad guy. I will just have to try to close my eyes to whatever consequences it has for Dean and enjoy it for what it is.

[Jonesy]

Hint, hint--check out the SPN Poster at the CW Twitter site...not sure if its the official one for season 14 or not.  But it's a strong J2M one.

[gonzosgirrl]

Remind me: have we seen anybody 'shocking' enough to warrant the behind-the-curtain filming we heard about a while back? Was that Not!Charlie?

[Myrelle]

9 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

With this new spoiler, I hope to hell Dean dies and then somehow is revived and possessed. Then I could enjoy Jensen playing the Big Bad without Dean bartering the world away for personal gain.  

I'm with you on this so much now.

And after seeing these newest hints, I'm now not seeing any kind of a Dean/Michael character happening at all.

I think it will be someone else-and hopefully, hopefully, HOPEFULLY! not Azazel. That was Dean's best kill ever, IMO.

I SO! hope that Dabb won't take that away from him, but it's Dabb, so he might and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he did. :-/

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I'm with you on this so much now.

And after seeing these newest hints, I'm now not seeing any kind of a Dean/Michael character happening at all.

I think it will be someone else-and hopefully, hopefully, HOPEFULLY! not Azazel. That was Dean's best kill ever, IMO.

I SO! hope that Dabb won't take that away from him, but it's Dabb, so he might and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he did. :-/

"He’s not as wedded to this idea that Dean Winchester is important at all. He doesn’t need Dean."

[Jonesy]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

"He’s not as wedded to this idea that Dean Winchester is important at all. He doesn’t need Dean."

That's not our Michael though.

[Myrelle]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

"He’s not as wedded to this idea that Dean Winchester is important at all. He doesn’t need Dean."

*sigh*

And Azazel fits all the parameters that everyone mentioned when this spoiler first came out.

And Jensen would feel that Fred Lehne's would be big shoes to fill, too.

*Sigh*

[ILoveReading]

Is Billie in this episode?  I don't see her listed on the Tumblr spoiler sheet.

They still have Matt Cohen listed, but I there was an interview where he said he wasn't filming SPN. 

[Lemuria]

51 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Hint, hint--check out the SPN Poster at the CW Twitter site...not sure if its the official one for season 14 or not.  But it's a strong J2M one.

I can't locate it in the site. Could you link to it?  Thanks. 

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I can't locate it in the site. Could you link to it?  Thanks. 

Guessing she meant this:

[Jonesy]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Guessing she meant this:

You got it!  It's a He by the way!  Someone brought up the theory the faces are surrounded by the ghosts/souls now no longer in Heaven.

[Aeryn13]

Misha said that he thinks the "heaven in disarray" storyline would play a role in Season 14 but he doesn`t know anything specific yet. That somehow didn`t sound to me like the fired Chekhov`s gun on that story already. He could be fibbing but it sounded genuine. 

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, Jakes said:

You got it!  It's a He by the way!  Someone brought up the theory the faces are surrounded by the ghosts/souls now no longer in Heaven.

Apologies!

[Jonesy]

Jensen in an EW interview uses one word to describe his new character--Stylish.  He's also hinting Dean might say yes in order to save Sam.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Apologies!

No problem!

Edited May 17, 2018 by Jakes

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Remind me: have we seen anybody 'shocking' enough to warrant the behind-the-curtain filming we heard about a while back? Was that Not!Charlie?

Quoting myself here to see if anyone remembers? Also, do we think that the reports of Sam being in rough shape was the vamps/throat ripped out thing, or is that to come in this episode (I haven't actually watched the sneak peeks except the one that aired at the end of last week's ep).

Also, do we think we've heard this famous 'line' that Jared was waiting for forever?

I'm wondering about Dean's mindset if the 'yes' (to whomever) does come about as a way to save Sam (vs. Sam and the world at large). From his POV, he already let him die for the greater good once (5x22) and we know how that turned out. He walked away from his body in Red Meat and again last week, and we also know how that turned out. Lucifer has 'won' again and again, and Michael 2.0 is at least as bad, Heaven's fucked, Chuck DGAF, and his beloved mom is an ice queen who cares more about everyone else in the world than them. So maybe he does just say screw it, I'm saving my brother again and we'll fix whatever else needs fixing later. Maybe. And if not, all y'all can suck it.

Edited May 17, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Diane]

15 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Jensen in an EW interview uses one word to describe his new character--Stylish.  He's also hinting Dean might say yes in order to save Sam.

 

Could it be Balthazar, he was certainly stylish?  I wouldn't think he would be the big bad though. Can't wait for tonight.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Diane

[Aeryn13]

Quote

He's also hinting Dean might say yes in order to save Sam.

That would be such insane character regression. Back in early Season 5, he wouldn`t say "yes" to Michael, even when Zachariah threatened to kill Sam. Because he knew that you don`t sell the whole world away for one person. 

Now he is gonna do just that? Urgh. If he can`t live with Sam dead, he has the very easy option to die himself.    

[BabySpinach]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

That would be such insane character regression. Back in early Season 5, he wouldn`t say "yes" to Michael, even when Zachariah threatened to kill Sam. Because he knew that you don`t sell the whole world away for one person. 

Now he is gonna do just that? Urgh. If he can`t live with Sam dead, he has the very easy option to die himself.    

I think if Death herself is looking out for Dean because he's "got work to do," whatever choice he makes must be for a greater purpose than just saving Sam.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

That would be such insane character regression. Back in early Season 5, he wouldn`t say "yes" to Michael, even when Zachariah threatened to kill Sam. Because he knew that you don`t sell the whole world away for one person. 

Now he is gonna do just that? Urgh. If he can`t live with Sam dead, he has the very easy option to die himself.    

You know I'm on board with most sentiments regarding Dean, but I can't agree with this. It's ironic - nobody is harder on Dean than Dean fans. Dean knows they've been able to pull out a save every other time, so why let Sam die needlessly?

[Myrelle]

32 minutes ago, Jakes said:

He's also hinting Dean might say yes in order to save Sam.

This is what he said

Quote

“At this point, Dean is willing to do whatever it takes,” Ackles continues. “That’s the one recurring themes with these brothers is that they will go to the ends [of the earth], not just to fight the good fight but certainly for each other, and we see that toward the end of the episode.”

which doesn't mean that it's necessarily Dean who goes to the ends of the earth. It could be Sam after Dean dies or is near death after doing "whatever it takes". Dean has been shown as being uncaring of his own well-being all season long.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Myrelle