Spoilers With Speculation

[ILoveReading]

To bad I don't recognize that Michael, Dabb is describing.  He sounds like he would have been a formidable big bad. 

[Jonesy]

13 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

To bad I don't recognize that Michael, Dabb is describing.  He sounds like he would have been a formidable big bad. 

Well I see what he's saying about Michael--he's kicked Lucifer's ass twice, killed Gabriel and no one has been able to handle him so far.  He just wants to dominate and control things his way.

[ILoveReading]

6 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Well I see what he's saying about Michael--he's kicked Lucifer's ass twice, killed Gabriel and no one has been able to handle him so far.  He just wants to dominate and control things his way.

I get what he's going for, but I don't think they spent enough time building him up. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

To bad I don't recognize that Michael, Dabb is describing.  He sounds like he would have been a formidable big bad. 

Let's play a game. Dabb or Michael?

"He’s not as wedded to this idea that Dean Winchester is important at all. He doesn’t need Dean."

Sublimating much there, Andrew? Heh.

[Casseiopeia]

There is one story line we know will live into next year — the situation in heaven. (Reminder: It’s running low on angels.) As Dabb puts it, that will “continue hanging over us into next season.”

I love the way Dabb puts it, "hanging over us" like some sort of punishment.  Dabb is still blaming us for Bloodlines isn't he.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[ILoveReading]

 

Sneak Peek. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Let's play a game. Dabb or Michael?

"He’s not as wedded to this idea that Dean Winchester is important at all. He doesn’t need Dean."

Sublimating much there, Andrew? Heh.

I think Dabb will be living vicariously through Michael when it comes to this. At least AU!Michael. 

As for the sneak peek, heh, it`s like every action/disaster/whatnot movie ever where a character says "when we get out of here, I`m going to..." Or who is just two days away from retirement.  :)   

[MysteryGuest]

One of these days, we'd better actually get that beach scene they keep teasing us with.  The world might not be free from evil, but they're certainly entitled to a little vacation.  Rather than their annual Vegas trip, would it kill them to head for the ocean?  They could always discover a sea monster of some sort to add drama!  I'm ready to see our boys frolicking in the sand!

[Bobcatkitten]

I like the beach dream. Especially the matching Hawaiin shirts ala the ones Jensen bought him, Misha and Jared!

[SueB]

I wonder if they've defeated AUMichael ("Kid did good") and that's why they are happy?  And THEN Lucifer shows up?

[Bobcatkitten]

9 minutes ago, SueB said:

I wonder if they've defeated AUMichael ("Kid did good") and that's why they are happy?  And THEN Lucifer shows up?

I assumed that was just a continuation of the bunker party scene from last episode. 

[SueB]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Let's play a game. Dabb or Michael?

"He’s not as wedded to this idea that Dean Winchester is important at all. He doesn’t need Dean."

Sublimating much there, Andrew? Heh.

I think the rest of the quote gives full context: 

"He doesn’t have that instruction card that he’s following. He’s not trying to get God’s attention; he doesn’t care about God. He’s an extremely narcissistic, selfish person who’s really interested in doing things the way he wants to do them, and we’ve seen the results of that in Apocalypse World. We’ve seen what that leads to, so the showdown is less about this brotherly dynamic and more about this extremely driven individual in Michael who will do anything to win.”

I'm pretty sure what Dabb is saying is that ignoring Dean is ignoring God's influence.  And Dean is God's "firewall".  As Crowley was the only one to "not underestimate those denim wrapped nightmares!", it looks like Michael is underestimating Dean.  Big mistake. Big mistake. It's how the Winchesters have always won.  By frankly punching above their weight-class.  

[ILoveReading]

28 minutes ago, SueB said:

I'm pretty sure what Dabb is saying is that ignoring Dean is ignoring God's influence.  And Dean is God's "firewall".  As Crowley was the only one to "not underestimate those denim wrapped nightmares!", it looks like Michael is underestimating Dean.  Big mistake. Big mistake. It's how the Winchesters have always won.  By frankly punching above their weight-class.  

We don't know this.  All we know is that one of the brothers makes and impulsive decision and that Jensen is going to play a character who isn't Dean.  We don't know if its going to actually make things better or worse. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

24 minutes ago, SueB said:

I think the rest of the quote gives full context: 

"He doesn’t have that instruction card that he’s following. He’s not trying to get God’s attention; he doesn’t care about God. He’s an extremely narcissistic, selfish person who’s really interested in doing things the way he wants to do them, and we’ve seen the results of that in Apocalypse World. We’ve seen what that leads to, so the showdown is less about this brotherly dynamic and more about this extremely driven individual in Michael who will do anything to win.”

I'm pretty sure what Dabb is saying is that ignoring Dean is ignoring God's influence.  And Dean is God's "firewall".  As Crowley was the only one to "not underestimate those denim wrapped nightmares!", it looks like Michael is underestimating Dean.  Big mistake. Big mistake. It's how the Winchesters have always won.  By frankly punching above their weight-class.  

I was being snarky. I loath Dabb and I think he's the worst thing that ever happened to Dean Winchester. I don't know what's becoming of Dean by the end of this episode, but I'm 99.99999% sure it won't change my mind about that.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

To bad I don't recognize that Michael, Dabb is describing.  He sounds like he would have been a formidable big bad. 

Sorry, Dabb/Singer.  Tell and Not Show is not good television viewing.

AU Michael and Christian Keyes had all the potential and you squandered the episodes and the character to set up WS and that went belly up. What a waste of time.

Also, Christian Keyes a lot of charisma and I'm looking forward to the scenes between him and Dean.  I hope they sizzle like they did in that one moment in the preview. 

Now, all that said, I'm wondering if Jack possesses Dean for a hot minute or Jack uses his powers to launch Dean into Lucifer in the "flying" scene.  And if that doesn't actually happen early on in the episode and they together disable Lucifer for long enough to make him ineffective.  Then  AU Michael shows up at the very end and that's when Dean somehow becomes Michael!Dean or Death!Dean or Whoever!Dean. 

[Bobcatkitten]

So anyone have any idea what the big CW announcement is tomorrow? 

[SueB]

Just now, Bobcatkitten said:

So anyone have any idea what the big CW announcement is tomorrow? 

As far as I know they've already released what is picked up and what is not.  Perhaps the days of the week (although it's a bit early).

[Aeryn13]

Quote

So anyone have any idea what the big CW announcement is tomorrow? 

I only read that Stephen Amell is going to make a "big, fun" announcement. Which I assume relates either to Arrow or the DC-shows, not CW shows in general. 

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

So anyone have any idea what the big CW announcement is tomorrow? 

They've decided to pick up Lucifer (Fox show).  They ended on a major cliff hanger.  I need to know what happens.

I saw something about Amell announcing it.  If true its probably about Arrow.

Maybe its an Arrow/SPN crossover.  Dabb did say he was working on something to top Scoobynatural.

Edited May 16, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Bobcatkitten]

Probably unpopular opinion but I don't watch Arrow and could care less about a crossover with that. If I were them I would stay away from crossovers immediately after Scooby, which was pretty iconic. Nothing can really live up to that.

[catrox14]

I don't think SA would announce anything about Arrow or the Arrowverse specifically.  I think that would come from the showrunners.

I'd think it's more likely some specific to SA and I would not be surprised if it's wrestling or Ninja Warrior, since he's done both things. Maybe they are going to do a celebrity Ninja Warrior or Celebrity Wrestling.

[MysteryGuest]

4 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Probably unpopular opinion but I don't watch Arrow and could care less about a crossover with that. If I were them I would stay away from crossovers immediately after Scooby, which was pretty iconic. Nothing can really live up to that.

Not unpopular with me.  I have enough trouble with angels and demons, I do not want Sam and Dean having to deal with superheroes.  One of the nice things about this show was that even though the Winchesters dealt with things none of us would ever have to, they were still human and relatable.  I'd like that to continue, please.

[Aeryn13]

I don`t think there is currently a show on the CW they would x-over SPN with. If they had wanted that, the network or studio would have pushed for Vampire Diaries (or possibly even Originals) ages ago.

Not happening with the DC shows. Those people are close to death every year figuring out the logistics of their inner-universe crossover. 

If the announcement comes from Stephen, it will either be Arrow or maybe something personal to him. I see no relation to SPN whatsoever. And I read nothing about any particular SPN announcement. My only guess would be the show moves to Sundays.  

[gonzosgirrl]

40 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t think there is currently a show on the CW they would x-over SPN with. If they had wanted that, the network or studio would have pushed for Vampire Diaries (or possibly even Originals) ages ago.

Not happening with the DC shows. Those people are close to death every year figuring out the logistics of their inner-universe crossover. 

If the announcement comes from Stephen, it will either be Arrow or maybe something personal to him. I see no relation to SPN whatsoever. And I read nothing about any particular SPN announcement. My only guess would be the show moves to Sundays.  

He did say something like the CW people were petrified he was going to spoil whatever it is at his con (?) this past weekend. So I assume it's at least related to his show? Dunno, but I'm over all the crossovers, everywhere - so if they aren't hunting the Vampire Diaries vamps, I don't care!

[Bobcatkitten]

The only crossover I would ever want is with X-Files. And they just got canceled. Maybe a one off? 

[catrox14]

47 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

He did say something like the CW people were petrified he was going to spoil whatever it is at his con (?) this past weekend. So I assume it's at least related to his show? Dunno, but I'm over all the crossovers, everywhere - so if they aren't hunting the Vampire Diaries vamps, I don't care!

There is a lot of chat over at the Arrow forum about what that potential spoiler would be and to that end he's not going to announce that possible spoiler. Also, David Ramsey, who plays John Diggle, spoils the crap out of everything anyway.  He doesn't even care LOL.  I think it's going to be personal to SA and at best tangential to Arrow but not plot stuff for Arrow.  

I would eat all the hats if they actually did a real Arrow - SPN crossover.  At most, it would be cameos of him or the boys on Arrow in the background. I don't think it would be plot essential at all.

[MysteryGuest]

I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the Dean/Michael hookup.  It really doesn't make any sense to me at this point, and they've made absolutely no meaningful mention of our Michael.  Yes, Lucifer told Jack he was a fierce warrior, or something to that effect, but we know our Michael was basically left drooling on himself when last we heard of him.  I don't want them popping him out of the cage in fine form, and then needing to spend 10 minutes explaining just how he managed to heal himself.  There's been enough retconning this season.  Plus, when Jensen talked about being the one to pick the costume for his new "role", why would Michael possessing him require a new look?  It would just be Dean, possessed by Michael.  Based on the clues they've given us, I'm back to square one.  I have no real idea just who Dean becomes at the end of the episode.  Becoming Death probably makes the most sense, based on the fact that he needs to look different.

[Castiels Cat]

22 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the Dean/Michael hookup.  It really doesn't make any sense to me at this point, and they've made absolutely no meaningful mention of our Michael.  Yes, Lucifer told Jack he was a fierce warrior, or something to that effect, but we know our Michael was basically left drooling on himself when last we heard of him.  I don't want them popping him out of the cage in fine form, and then needing to spend 10 minutes explaining just how he managed to heal himself.  There's been enough retconning this season.  Plus, when Jensen talked about being the one to pick the costume for his new "role", why would Michael possessing him require a new look?  It would just be Dean, possessed by Michael.  Based on the clues they've given us, I'm back to square one.  I have no real idea just who Dean becomes at the end of the episode.  Becoming Death probably makes the most sense, based on the fact that he needs to look different.

I have put together all of the evidence over two seasons suggesting the set-up for Dean!Michael here if you are interested...

http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/articles/articles-40/5-episode-related/21137-p-s-the-road-so-far-supernatural-much-ado-about-dean-and-dean-michael

[catrox14]

23 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I don't want them popping him out of the cage in fine form, and then needing to spend 10 minutes explaining just how he managed to heal himself.

The only two people who said Michael was a drooling mess are Lucifer and kind of sort of Chuck.  That's resolved by revealing they were either wrong or lying.  I'm fine with either option myself.

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

So anyone have any idea what the big CW announcement is tomorrow? 

Guesses.  

WS reversal?

They are picking up the Exorcist which is a really good show?

Constantine is getting his own show rather than being stuck on LoT?

[Casseiopeia]

24 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the Dean/Michael hookup.  It really doesn't make any sense to me at this point, and they've made absolutely no meaningful mention of our Michael.  Yes, Lucifer told Jack he was a fierce warrior, or something to that effect, but we know our Michael was basically left drooling on himself when last we heard of him.  I don't want them popping him out of the cage in fine form, and then needing to spend 10 minutes explaining just how he managed to heal himself.  There's been enough retconning this season.  Plus, when Jensen talked about being the one to pick the costume for his new "role", why would Michael possessing him require a new look?  It would just be Dean, possessed by Michael.  Based on the clues they've given us, I'm back to square one.  I have no real idea just who Dean becomes at the end of the episode.  Becoming Death probably makes the most sense, based on the fact that he needs to look different.

The other strike against RW Michael is that Sam and Dean are the ones who shoved him into the cage in the first place.  I can't imagine he is going to be very helpful to them.  If it is Michael I really hope that the story was thought all the way through.  

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

The only crossover I would ever want is with X-Files. And they just got canceled. Maybe a one off? 

X-files had a great season despite a really bad Scully walking womb storyline.  Several best of series episodes.

They insulted Gillian again in salary negotiations and she said never again.

If they can woo her back again... maybe.

Stupid Fox.

3 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

The other strike against RW Michael is that Sam and Dean are the ones who shoved him into the cage in the first place.  I can't imagine he is going to be very helpful to them.  If it is Michael I really hope that the story was thought all the way through.  

Per Amael's backstory they have set up the idea of a quid pro quo arrangement.  Something Dean wants for something Michael wants...

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The only two people who said Michael was a drooling mess are Lucifer and kind of sort of Chuck.  That's resolved by revealing they were either wrong or lying.  I'm fine with either option myself.

Or he is crazy because every person this season has mental health issues. 

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

The other strike against RW Michael is that Sam and Dean are the ones who shoved him into the cage in the first place.  I can't imagine he is going to be very helpful to them.  If it is Michael I really hope that the story was thought all the way through.  

Which could explain why he takes off with Dean's body - revenge?

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

They've decided to pick up Lucifer (Fox show).  They ended on a major cliff hanger.  I need to know what happens.

I saw something about Amell announcing it.  If true its probably about Arrow.

Maybe its an Arrow/SPN crossover.  Dabb did say he was working on something to top Scoobynatural.

It better be an AU.

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Which could explain why he takes off with Dean's body - revenge?

Or Dean wants a staycation.  He is broken and done.

6 hours ago, Jakes said:

Well I see what he's saying about Michael--he's kicked Lucifer's ass twice, killed Gabriel and no one has been able to handle him so far.  He just wants to dominate and control things his way.

Me too. Not to mention blow me up Ken.

6 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I get what he's going for, but I don't think they spent enough time building him up. 

How much time do we need building up evil megliomanic trope.  Guaranteed he will monologue in the finale and fill in the blanks. They always do.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Or Dean wants a staycation.  He is broken and done.

Then wouldn't he just go off to that beach alone? Like why would he go for the 1920's garb and ends up in this century as an anachronism?

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Let's play a game. Dabb or Michael?

"He’s not as wedded to this idea that Dean Winchester is important at all. He doesn’t need Dean."

Sublimating much there, Andrew? Heh.

Why would Dabb say this about AU Michael.  Is he trying to say AU Michael underestimated Dean.  Gah.  These guys cannot talk their way out of a paper bag.  They need to have the actors act out their dialogue dressed as them.

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

There is one story line we know will live into next year — the situation in heaven. (Reminder: It’s running low on angels.) As Dabb puts it, that will “continue hanging over us into next season.”

I love the way Dabb puts it, "hanging over us" like some sort of punishment.  Dabb is still blaming us for Bloodlines isn't he.

I think it was obvious that was nect years mytharc and a big clear that we were getting Dean!Michael.  

I just hope Supernatural doesn't become a bad computer game about ghosts run amuck for a few episodes. What was that awful cell phone episode.

4 hours ago, SueB said:

I think the rest of the quote gives full context: 

"He doesn’t have that instruction card that he’s following. He’s not trying to get God’s attention; he doesn’t care about God. He’s an extremely narcissistic, selfish person who’s really interested in doing things the way he wants to do them, and we’ve seen the results of that in Apocalypse World. We’ve seen what that leads to, so the showdown is less about this brotherly dynamic and more about this extremely driven individual in Michael who will do anything to win.”

I'm pretty sure what Dabb is saying is that ignoring Dean is ignoring God's influence.  And Dean is God's "firewall".  As Crowley was the only one to "not underestimate those denim wrapped nightmares!", it looks like Michael is underestimating Dean.  Big mistake. Big mistake. It's how the Winchesters have always won.  By frankly punching above their weight-class.  

Huh.  Thanks.  I haven't read yet and saw other comments and was... say the hell what...

Yours makes sense 

[Casseiopeia]

30 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Which could explain why he takes off with Dean's body - revenge?

Revenge has been a theme this season along with redemption.  If it is going to be Michael he is going to have to come up with one hell of an argument to convince Dean to let him go for a ride.

[Casseiopeia]

39 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Per Amael's backstory they have set up the idea of a quid pro quo arrangement.  Something Dean wants for something Michael wants.

That could be but there just doesn't seem to be enough season left to really give a story like that justice.  I guess we will find out soon.

[Castiels Cat]

Just now, Casseiopeia said:

That could be but there just doesn't seem to be enough season left to really give a story like that justice.  I guess we will find out soon.

It would not be a finale without too much crammed in.  Guaranteed They will use a flashback to show the Dean!Michael business.

[MysteryGuest]

45 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The only two people who said Michael was a drooling mess are Lucifer and kind of sort of Chuck.  That's resolved by revealing they were either wrong or lying.  I'm fine with either option myself.

Chuck definitely made it seem like Michael was beyond help, at least the quick kind of help Chuck had to offer at the time.  I don't really see a reason why he would lie about that.  I also have no doubt that if the show wants it to be Dean/Michael, they will make it so, without a moment's concern about canon.  But that still leaves me with the question of just why Dean would need to look different just to be possessed by Michael.  

[gonzosgirrl]

Right now I would make a crossroads deal for it not to be OW Michael.

[Castiels Cat]

9 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Revenge has been a theme this season along with redemption.  If it is going to be Michael he is going to have to come up with one hell of an argument to convince Dean to let him go for a ride.

Dean is already ready to do a big self sacrifice.  He may be dying, perhaps even by suicide because they are losing big time.  It has all been set-up.  He wants Lucifer dead.  He needs,an archangel to do it.  There is your revenge.

World needs saving. They need a powerful archangel to defeat AU AU Michael.  Duh... Cafe Michael.

What Michael wants is season 14.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, MysteryGuest said:

Chuck definitely made it seem like Michael was beyond help, at least the quick kind of help Chuck had to offer at the time.  I don't really see a reason why he would lie about that.  I also have no doubt that if the show wants it to be Dean/Michael, they will make it so, without a moment's concern about canon.  But that still leaves me with the question of just why Dean would need to look different just to be possessed by Michael.  

I think the 'looking different' comes after whatever happens, happens.

[MysteryGuest]

So, if AU Michael and Lucifer are dispensed with this season (please, let this happen!!), then is Dean and whoever he becomes the new big bad for next season?  That could be cool.

Edited May 16, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[Castiels Cat]

2 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Chuck definitely made it seem like Michael was beyond help, at least the quick kind of help Chuck had to offer at the time.  I don't really see a reason why he would lie about that.  I also have no doubt that if the show wants it to be Dean/Michael, they will make it so, without a moment's concern about canon.  But that still leaves me with the question of just why Dean would need to look different just to be possessed by Michael.  

Per  gonzogirl... the clothes,were in the Bunker.

Michael refused to help Chuck and Chuck lied or was embarrassed to say.  Who knows.  It is easily explained away and hardly an  

Chuck lied too. The entire  Chuck persona was a lie.

Just say you don't like the idea.

Just now, MysteryGuest said:

So, if AU Michael and Lucifer are dispensed with this season (please, let this happen!!), then does Dean and whoever he  becomes the big bad for next season?  That could be cool.

Possibly.... my thinking without seeing the finale... mmm.....  For part of the season....   The Singer effect is still in play and he is the killer of all Dean mytharc plotlines.  6 episodes tops.

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think the 'looking different' comes after whatever happens, happens.

I love your bunker clothes spec. So simple and elegant. 

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Right now I would make a crossroads deal for it not to be OW Michael.

I saw it as OWL Michael.  And got a Watchman Micharl mash up image. 

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think the 'looking different' comes after whatever happens, happens.

Maybe the plaid is in honor of Dean.

[MysteryGuest]

35 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Chuck lied too. The entire  Chuck persona was a lie.

 

But this is exactly my issue.  The Chuck as God story was created out of whole cloth, IMO, at least based on the previous times we'd seen Chuck.  Mary has been retconned into a completely different person than the one we met in multiple flashbacks.  Gabriel's story of survival was convoluted as hell.  Ketch supposedly survived by stealing or borrowing Rowena's magic leg spell.  I don't want Michael's reappearance as this mighty warrior to just be more made-up bullshit.  But that's what it will be if he comes out of the cage in tip top shape.  But there's also no real set up for this to be a Dean/Death thing, so whichever way they go, it's going to come out of nowhere, I'm afraid.

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

The only crossover I would ever want is with X-Files. And they just got canceled. Maybe a one off? 

Ditto! Though a Grimm crossover would've been fun also. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by DeeDee79
Just thought of Dean and Nick Burkhardt on the same screen *drools*

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

Chuck definitely made it seem like Michael was beyond help, at least the quick kind of help Chuck had to offer at the time.  I don't really see a reason why he would lie about that. 

True but Chuck also said Gabriel was dead which was completely retconned. I wouldn't be surprised if they just said that Michael's side of the cage was sturdier than Lucifer's which is why he couldn't get out before now.

[Pondlass1]

I'm going to be out of the country and miss tomorrow's episode.  Hope the PVR comes thru for me. 

Wharever  it is that Jensen " steps up" for I hope it's worthy of his acting talents. They've certainly dangled it in front of us like a carrot.  They'd better come through.  

I don't know whether to read this board on Friday or wait till I see the finale. 

I think it's our world Michael, but who knows?