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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

Personally,  I think 'What were you thinking while watching the final cut of the last 15 minutes of the finale?' would be a fair question to the showrunner(s) and director. I don't think it is at all fair that Jensen be the only one ever questioned about it. 

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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SueB

SueB

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(edited)
3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm italicizing your bolded because it kind of confused me how you answered each part within my original comments vs quoting and responding separately.  

Comic Con has always seemed like a much more mixed crowd of hard core fans, middle of the road and those that might be at the Con for general reasons and decide to go to the SPN panel.  Of course, I've never been to Comic Con (despite it being in my dang backyard! LOL) but that's always been my impression based on the panel videos, articles about the con etc.  This smacks of a "true fan" kind of thing. Like only people that don't like the show ask critical questions? It's never been only friendly questions asked about the show at Comic Con. 

 I'm not seeing a big difference between the questions I've postulated than the question lobbed at Carver over Charlie. It wasn't just, "Why did you kill off Charlie".  It was framed around it being yet another female character that was killed.   It was a straight up condemning question that was allowed and addressed by Carver.  Some might boo me and some might actually cheer or be like 'Yes, that's a great question!". Anyway, we can agree to disagree on whether those are insulting or not. 

Anyway, I hope folks do ask tough questions and ask things like will Lucifer stay dead, please let him stay dead.  Ask things like will Michael!Dean have more than 3 episodes?"  Will Steve Yockey be back?

I have a feeling that the Buck Lemming being at Paley and Comic Con is signaling they will have more influence over the show than ever before. 

 I've seen a couple of panels that had the actors that played the characters that were killed off and never came back. I'm not 100% convinced that him not being at the panel is a marker that Lucifer will be gone forever. 

True fan?  Not remotely.  But they are fans who spent 6-16 hrs waiting to get into the theater.  The random drop ins JUST for Supernataurl are not what I expect.  Now if Supernatural is followed by another big group (in this case Riverdale), then a large portion of the crowd may not even BE Supernatural fans.  See, once you get into Hall H, you stay in your seat til the panel you want comes up.  So, as soon as Supernatural is done, I bolt out of the room -- when people leave, people waiting in line can then get in.  

Let me put it slightly differently -- if I waited that long for someone to grind an ax, I'd boo them.  Sounds like you think that's okay.  Works for me.  

 

Let me clear on one point:  There is NO special protection for Supernatural writers at SDCC.  Whatever policies SDCC has are for EVERY panel in Hall H.  

Edited by SueB
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
29 minutes ago, SueB said:

Let me put it slightly differently -- if I waited that long for someone to grind an ax, I'd boo them.  Sounds like you think that's okay.  Works for me.  

Grinding an ax seems to imply one already knows the questioner's intent with asking the question which how could anyone know this?  Just to clarify, if you took my comments as being only what I would ask, I meant it in a general sense about what anyone might ask as in those were examples that I think would be of general interest as they are show related and not overly personal questions about the actors or showrunners lives. 

Also, maybe I misread your previous comments, I thought you said the Charlie pushback question was okay?  I'm just not seeing a difference other than what the question is maybe? Or if the questions just aren't of interest to you personally? ***

Viewers and con goers may not share the  same level of annoyance or happiness with the show and that's why the audience is allowed to ask questions. To me, I think Comic Con has the better show related questions in a broader audience sense and there aren't opportunities by the general audience who can't do meet and greets to see what the showrunners and writers would answer vs the actors at the SPN cons.

 

ETA:  *** by you I mean the general "you" as in anyone's own personal interest in the question. Not you, SueB, personally. 

Edited by catrox14
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SueB

SueB

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1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Also, maybe I misread your previous comments, I thought you said the Charlie pushback question was okay?  I'm just not seeing a difference other than what the question is maybe? Or if the questions just aren't of interest to you personally? 

The Charlie pushback question was perfect - the audience (and I) applauded.  When Carver gave a shitty answer we boo'd.  Loudly.  No, the difference between the Charlie question and the one you are suggesting is content.

Charlie: major plot point, fridged a gay character in undignified fashion.  It's a fairly big deal with implications on how they treat women & gay characters. 
Wire Fight Question: Execution issue of a stunt scene.  It didn't suddenly make it canon that Michael/Lucifer fly poorly.  It's just a stunt. 

I can't really explain any better than to say one implies "you made a shitty decision" and the other implies "you did shitty work." 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

I think there is more to the finale scene than just the execution of a stunt. Regardless of one's feelings about Dean, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a fan who thought that fight, killing arguably the longest running villain of the series, was well done. Somebody okayed it to air as it did. I want that person to answer for it. 

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SueB

SueB

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8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think there is more to the finale scene than just the execution of a stunt. Regardless of one's feelings about Dean, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a fan who thought that fight, killing arguably the longest running villain of the series, was well done. Somebody okayed it to air as it did. I want that person to answer for it. 

Taking response to Bitterness thread

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catrox14

catrox14

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

I can't really explain any better than to say one implies "you made a shitty decision" and the other implies "you did shitty work." 

I've always said that my issue with the high wire stunt is that it was an ill conceived and poorly executed idea which someone conceived and allowed to stand. Just like Charlie's death. ( I find it much more egregious to screw up something that involves involving one of the lead characters major arc points than killing off a supporting character.

Regardless, to me, it still comes down to a showrunning/writing decision in both cases.  And asking about anything wrt to writing and production is fair IMO. 

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DeeDee79

DeeDee79

(edited)
21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Alex posted a pic of the script with the title scribbled out but he didn’t quite get all of it. So spec is that the title of the first ep is Stranger in a Strange Land. 

Interesting. Based on the title is seems likely that it will focus mostly on Dean/Michael; sounds good.

Edited by DeeDee79
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catrox14

catrox14

7 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Interesting. Based on the title is seems likely that it will focus mostly on Dean/Michael; sounds good.

You're more optimistic than me. I fully expect a time jump like s10 and the strangers will be Sam and Jack without Dean.

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DeeDee79

DeeDee79

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

You're more optimistic than me. I fully expect a time jump like s10 and the strangers will be Sam and Jack without Dean.

I'm hoping that you're wrong but more than likely your spec will be turn out to be more on point than mine.

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catrox14

catrox14

8 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I'm hoping that you're wrong but more than likely your spec will be turn out to be more on point than mine.

Or...there won't be a time jump and it's referring to Not!Bobby and the AU Refugees adjusting to life in this world.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

The writers are pretty simplistic and one-track in their approach so I'd give it a 98 % chance the title refers to Michael. It's almost literally the continuation of their cliffhanger. 

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catrox14

catrox14

It might be that this is the closest they will let Jensen get to having facial hair. 

If it's a goatee (the bottom chin hair) by itself, no thank you. If it's a Van Dyke, that would be okay.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

So my hubs got me a Jensen Ackles calendar for Christmas this year(because he is the most secure man on the planet!) and I just turned it to July and who do I see all up close and personal?- that's right, Jensen Ackles with a van dyke goatee and a beard and a look that is To. Die. For. The Gorgeous One, indeed ;-) - and I'd take this look on Dean/Michael any day of the week(heh, or any month of the year for that matter).

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Res

Res

2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

So my hubs got me a Jensen Ackles calendar for Christmas this year(because he is the most secure man on the planet!) and I just turned it to July and who do I see all up close and personal?- that's right, Jensen Ackles with a van dyke goatee and a beard and a look that is To. Die. For. The Gorgeous One, indeed ;-) - and I'd take this look on Dean/Michael any day of the week(heh, or any month of the year for that matter).

Where did he get it from?

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)
1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

According to spoiler TV

Episode 1- Stranger in a Strange Land

Episode 2- Gods and Monsters

Yeah saw that--Alex mistakenly let the first one slip by showing a poorly edited first page of the first script a couple of weeks ago or so.   Episode One I think is Michael in OUR universe.  Episode Two is interesting--think that is a reference to a Frankenstein movie or book.

 

PS--looked it up...Gods and Monsters a movie about James Whale director of Frankenstein.  The title comes from a quote from the great BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN that went, "To a new World of Gods and Monsters!"

Edited by Jakes
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 minute ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Stranger in a Strange Land seems obvious that it will focus on Dean/Michael and his arrival into the Winchester's universe.  Gods and Monsters could literally be anything. 

Maybe Chuck is coming back to fix what he broke (by leaving Lucifer loose in the world while he and Amara went off for family time). Wouldn't surprise me at all if Michael!Dean only got two episodes. 

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Jonesy

Jonesy

Michael/Dean will be more than 2 episodes, I have no doubts.  It'll be done before 300 imo but not much before that.  That said I like Jensen to be Dean above all,  so I don't need him to be Michael forever.

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Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

16 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Michael/Dean will be more than 2 episodes, I have no doubts.  It'll be done before 300 imo but not much before that.  That said I like Jensen to be Dean above all,  so I don't need him to be Michael forever.

My sweet spot is 6-10 episodes I think. That would give room to breathe and be Dean again for 300.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)
26 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

My sweet spot is 6-10 episodes I think. That would give room to breathe and be Dean again for 300.

I'd say my preference would be Michael/Dean for 7 episodes.  But after that I want the best character in Supernatural back...Dean, just Dean.

 

And thinking more on it--don't think I want more than 7 for MD.

Edited by Jakes
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catrox14

catrox14

33 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe Chuck is coming back to fix what he broke (by leaving Lucifer loose in the world while he and Amara went off for family time). Wouldn't surprise me at all if Michael!Dean only got two episodes. 

I think the Empty Keeper will have to come into play because that's where Lucifer would go. I still think we are stuck with Lucifer. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

I'd like to see it go until the 300th ep.   With the focus of the 300th on saving Dean with an It's a Wonderful life type episode.

But I think it will go 2 1/2 eps with a story similiar to Demon Dean.

We'll see Michael exploring things he's never seen in this world (Stranger in a strange land), things like Netflix and strip clubs.    Short glimpes of Dean in Michael's head flirting and eating.  Sam and Jack will angst about wanting to save Dean.  They'll catch up with him in episode 2.  Ep 3 will be Sam, Cas and Jack trying to save Dean.   They'll save him with a spell or Jack will over himself as a vessel.   Then we'll get the aftermath in ep 4 and then the storyline will be done.

The problem is that SPN wrote itself into a corner with the whole only an arch angel can kill an arch angel.  Which means that if Lucifer's brought back and Michael is still on the lose the only way to stop them would be for someone to say yes again. 

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)

Demon Dean was running up on episode 200 and they wanted the boys back(rightly!) as themselves for that milestone.  This year they have 13 episodes until 300, so they have much more flexibility.  So I'm sure we'll get at least 5 and probably more Michael/Dean episodes--but probably not up to 300 because that would be TOO MUCH without our best regular character...pure Dean. 

 

My final guess would be between 5 to 8.  Which is fine and enough imo.

Edited by Jakes
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

7 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Demon Dean was running up on episode 200 and they wanted the boys back(rightly!) as themselves for that milestone.  This year they have 13 episodes until 300, so they have much more flexibility.  So I'm sure we'll get at least 5 and probably more Michael/Dean episodes--but probably not up to 300 because that would be TOO MUCH without our best regular character...pure Dean. 

 

My final guess would be between 5 to 8.  Which is fine and enough imo.

Responding in bitch/jerk just to be on the safe side.

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DeeDee79

DeeDee79

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

We'll see Michael exploring things he's never seen in this world (Stranger in a strange land), things like Netflix and strip clubs.    Short glimpes of Dean in Michael's head flirting and eating. 

Did they ever say how long it had been since the AU had been destroyed by the angels? I'm wondering because if Michael was in his vessel for a decent length of time it wouldn't make any sense for the writers to go there; those things wouldn't necessarily be new to him. AU Bobby made a reference to Trump and The Apprentice so I assume that they had a pretty normal world before things went to shit. That being said I'm hoping that the Dean/Michael scenes have more depth than Michael seeking out frivolous activities. It would basically be Demon Dean II and that was enough of a letdown that I don't want to see it again.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

"Gods and Monsters" is a pretty generic title, it can be applied to everything and nothing and you can say it holds a deep, philosophical meaning without that really playing out in shallow, simplistic writing at all. In short, I think it is one of those perfect titles for the current SPN writers. 

It could even be about Michael again and have both words apply to him. 

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catrox14

catrox14

Kind of interesting that it reads "Supernatural 14 Films, Inc."  I remember that it used to read Supernatural Films, Inc.

Is it just for the poster or did they change their corporation? Or what?

 

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companionenvy

companionenvy

IMO, that makes it more likely that we're going to get scenes of Dean interacting with Michael in some mindscape. Although I suppose it could also just mean that Michael lives to go back to his original vessel whenever Dean gets rid of him.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Maybe they kinda pre-booked him for that purpose. Or he already knows it's happening as early as episode 2 or so. That would suck tbh. And I like the actor but if stupid Singer cut the story short again, I'm gonna cut something.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)

Grew to like Christian's performance and he seems like a good, cool dude--so happy for him.  That said the empty vessel is alive--so I'm sure he'll be around for some time as a human before he may eventually be Michael once again.

Edited by Jakes
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Pondlass1

Pondlass1

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

Grew to like Christian's performance

I can't remember if it was stated he was busy with something else during season 13, but what a shame.  I thought the character was just throw away at first, but turned out he did have weight and charisma when we finally got to meet him.  Too bad because AU Michael could have made a ho-hum season a bit more interesting, especially now that he's got Dean's fab bod to toot around in for hopefully a good few episodes.  

Jared  went kind of robotic whenever Gadreel was in charge, but if we'd seen Michael more, then Jensen would've had mannerisms to copy - so I guess the fact that we never really knew Michael leaves the door wide open for Jensen. So that's a good thing, I guess.

But it's exciting to note Christian will be back.  The story will have to continue rather than another dropped plot.

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