Spoilers With Speculation

[Wayward Son]

According to Jessica's spoiler sheet (The little tree hopper on tumblr) the filming dates for 13x01 and 13x02 are

 

13x01: July 12 - July 21

13x02: July 24 - August 2

 

So they would be missing the last two days of episode 1 and the first three of episode 2. Since J2 are said to take several days off now anyways I actually don't think the episodes will be as affected as people are fearing. 

 

I need to try and find the source again, but per Jensen episode 2 will be Cas free. According to Jensen, Misha will only film one day in July, and we know that day has already occurred. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Wayward Son

[gonzosgirrl]

Is that the same blog that got the majority of the season finale spoilers wrong?

My feeling is they either hustled to film all of Jensen/Jared's scenes first, or as was speculated ( by @catrox14 ?), or,  this in an A/U, Mary/Lucifer heavy episode. I hope for the former, but fear the latter, since Sam Smith has been filming since the start. I don't know about Mark P since I don't follow him. Ugh, every bit of info and/or speculation about this season just makes me despair for my show more. 

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Is that the same blog that got the majority of the season finale spoilers wrong?

My feeling is they either hustled to film all of Jensen/Jared's scenes first, or as was speculated ( by @catrox14 ?), or,  this in an A/U, Mary/Lucifer heavy episode. I hope for the former, but fear the latter, since Sam Smith has been filming since the start. I don't know about Mark P since I don't follow him. Ugh, every bit of info and/or speculation about this season just makes me despair for my show more. 

No, that's a different one I believe. She's the one who creates a 'spoiler sheet' where she complies everything we know. For instance who has been spotted on set, pictures released by crew members etc. Here is what she has for S13 so far

 

http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/162826766658/supernatural-season-13-spoiler-sheet

 

She probably makes her own guesses and speculations in other tumblr posts just like we do, but she tends to stick to just fact for the spoiler sheet or labels stuff she isn't 100% sure of with stuff like "probably" "probably not" etc.

[Jonesy]

21 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

According to Jessica's spoiler sheet (The little tree hopper on tumblr) the filming dates for 13x01 and 13x02 are

 

13x01: July 12 - July 21

13x02: July 24 - August 2

 

So they would be missing the last two days of episode 1 and the first three of episode 2. Since J2 are said to take several days off now anyways I actually don't think the episodes will be as affected as people are fearing. 

 

I need to try and find the source again, but per Jensen episode 2 will be Cas free. According to Jensen, Misha will only film one day in July, and we know that day has already occurred. 

Not sure if the Jensen quote concerning Misha is true--Jessica has doubts about it's validity.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Jakes

[Wayward Son]

8 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Not sure if the Jensen quote concerning Misha is true--Jessica has doubts about it's validity.

People replied to that post by Jessica saying Jensen said it during the Chicon Gold Panel. I don't watch Con videos so hopefully someone on here who has seen it can confirm :) 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Jonesy]

5 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

People replied to that post by Jessica saying Jensen said it during the Chicon Gold Panel. I don't watch Con videos so hopefully someone on here who has seen it can confirm :) 

Yeah we need at least an audio to get the full context of anything he said...if anything.  The SAME with what else I heard...one that Misha has read other scripts he's in and that he has a challenging aspect of Cas to act.  Heard those but neither have been verified either.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Jakes

[catrox14]

The Gold Panel is posted in the SuperNormal thread.

[Wayward Son]

Thanks for letting us know Catrox :) . I'll let Jakes fact check here if they'd like. I'm really not a big enough J2 fan to be interested in watching a 30 min plus video of them, especially since show questions are said to be minimum these days. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

I do know Jensen talked about shooting with Misha and pranking him. Maybe it got infered from that the shoot was only one day? Could happen of course but I don`t think Jensen spoiled the episodes so much as talked about some shooting and people guessed from that. Well, Comic Con is around the corner so we will soon know. 

Quote

Is that the same blog that got the majority of the season finale spoilers wrong?

My feeling is they either hustled to film all of Jensen/Jared's scenes first, or as was speculated ( by @CATROX14 ?), or,  this in an A/U, Mary/Lucifer heavy episode. I hope for the former, but fear the latter, since Sam Smith has been filming since the start. 

Well, if even the Season Openers are now gonna be rather guest star heavy, that doesn`t bode well. Openers and Finales are usually the episodes where J2 are featured more than during the Season.

Maybe for Dabb Mary and Lucy count as main characters in the same vein now. Unfortunately, I can`t stand either of them. And if I had to choose, I can stomach Lucifer a tiny bit more but that`s not saying much.   

[ILoveReading]

Just before the IMDB boards shut down, someone mentioned that Jensen and Jared were contracted for 97 days per season.  If that was accurate that is about half of the shooting days.  Given how light episodes were last season, I would say it seems believable. 

Today is 5 of 8.  So if JA and JP didn't shoot today that means they'll miss at least 3 days of the premier. 

We do know that Sam Smith filmed Friday because she tweeted she had to miss Chicago con because of it.   So if that was mostly Sam and Mark P, that would mean there is a possibility that Jared and Jensen missed 4 days of the premier.  Not much different than last season where they seemed to only film part time.

[Wayward Son]

14 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Just before the IMDB boards shut down, someone mentioned that Jensen and Jared were contracted for 97 days per season.  If that was accurate that is about half of the shooting days.  Given how light episodes were last season, I would say it seems believable. 

Today is 5 of 8.  So if JA and JP didn't shoot today that means they'll miss at least 3 days of the premier. 

We do know that Sam Smith filmed Friday because she tweeted she had to miss Chicago con because of it.   So if that was mostly Sam and Mark P, that would mean there is a possibility that Jared and Jensen missed 4 days of the premier.  Not much different than last season where they seemed to only film part time.

Yeah, I've heard, with only a few exceptions, J2 don't work Fridays and Mondays. That's why we'll often hear of others like Sam Smith, Misha etc filming on those days. It's also why I think the two of them missing a few days from ep 1 and 2 is nowhere near the big deal others seem to think it is.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Yeah, I've heard, with only a few exceptions, J2 don't work Fridays and Mondays. That's why we'll often hear of others like Sam Smith, Misha etc filming on those days. It's also why I think the two of them missing a few days from ep 1 and 2 is nowhere near the big deal others seem to think it is.

Yeah that's why I was saying a couple of days ago in another thread how it could all play out with them being in San Diego today for Conan and then get back to work on Tuesday. 

Dollars to donuts, they spend a day golfing at Torrey Pines, have another trip to San Diego Zoo or even Sea World.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

It's also why I think the two of them missing a few days from ep 1 and 2 is nowhere near the big deal others seem to think it is.

It is absolutely possible to make the most of less shooting days by clever writing and clever scheduling. The second part is up to the director and production crew and those, I consider competent. However, the first part, I don`t have any faith in. And if they missed, say, 4 days of shooting, it would be half the days alloted for the episode which, no matter how clever the writing/shooting nixes a character-heavy episode. Barring things like body switching/flashbacks etc where technically you have an episode about the character, just not played by a certain actor all the time.

And for the freaking Season Opener and Finale I would expect a heavier work schedule for the main actors. Unless the story calls for something radically different. That`s two out of 23 episodes and the Opener is first after the hiatus so if at any point in the entire Season the actors should be fresh enough to handle say, gasp, 6 - 7 days of shooting, it should be this.      

We`re rapidly nearing the point where I consider it synonymous to an actor who happily accepted the lead role in a big movie but only wanted to have 4 lines in it. Like, if you don`t want the amount of work which would be considered necessary for a lead role, then don`t say yes. I get it, it`s a ridiculously good paycheck for the minimal amount of work, compared to when they started the show. But if they truly want guest roles in a TV show, then find another show and get guest roles for pete`s sake. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

And for the freaking Season Opener and Finale I would expect a heavier work schedule for the main actors. Unless the story calls for something radically different. That`s two out of 23 episodes and the Opener is first after the hiatus so if at any point in the entire Season the actors should be fresh enough to handle say, gasp, 6 - 7 days of shooting, it should be this.      

Unless they already filmed some things last season for the premiere, in addition to the Scooby episode. J2 said something about new stuff being added to the bunker during a con like barcoloungers and a big new TV. That didn't show up in the finale so. Hard to say though.

[Wayward Son]

35 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It is absolutely possible to make the most of less shooting days by clever writing and clever scheduling. The second part is up to the director and production crew and those, I consider competent. However, the first part, I don`t have any faith in. And if they missed, say, 4 days of shooting, it would be half the days alloted for the episode which, no matter how clever the writing/shooting nixes a character-heavy episode. Barring things like body switching/flashbacks etc where technically you have an episode about the character, just not played by a certain actor all the time.

And for the freaking Season Opener and Finale I would expect a heavier work schedule for the main actors. Unless the story calls for something radically different. That`s two out of 23 episodes and the Opener is first after the hiatus so if at any point in the entire Season the actors should be fresh enough to handle say, gasp, 6 - 7 days of shooting, it should be this.      

We`re rapidly nearing the point where I consider it synonymous to an actor who happily accepted the lead role in a big movie but only wanted to have 4 lines in it. Like, if you don`t want the amount of work which would be considered necessary for a lead role, then don`t say yes. I get it, it`s a ridiculously good paycheck for the minimal amount of work, compared to when they started the show. But if they truly want guest roles in a TV show, then find another show and get guest roles for pete`s sake. 

As I said earlier, according to the film dates they'd be missing two (at most three) days of episode one and three days of episode two, which is pretty standard for the show in its current state. Also, to be fair to Jared and Jensen, they are missing the week for promotional things in relation to the show such as the SDCC stuff and the appearance on Conan etc. It isn't as though they've randomly swanned off to Spain to lie on the beach for a week. They're still technically working during the week ahead, and I'd imagine promoting the new season is work the CW would consider important. 

In regards to the whole film star thing, personally, I think that's an unfair comparison. What we have to remember is that most television shows have four or five leads if not more. The work load is therefore divided into five whereas with Supernatural it was divided into two. It is very rare for a show to have a set up like that. The only comparable example I can think of is the X Files and even it didn't keep both leads for its entire run. Therefore, J2 were working a ridiculous amount of hours in the earlier seasons. Far above and beyond the work load given to actors on other shows. IMO, the work load they have now / the amount they appear on episodes is comparable to the leads / main cast on pretty much every show. Yes, it is far less than what they used to work, but hardly the same as a lead role with four lines, or at least that's my opinion. 

[Diane]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

As I said earlier, according to the film dates they'd be missing two (at most three) days of episode one and three days of episode two, which is pretty standard for the show in its current state. Also, to be fair to Jared and Jensen, they are missing the week for promotional things in relation to the show such as the SDCC stuff and the appearance on Conan etc. It isn't as though they've randomly swanned off to Spain to lie on the beach for a week. They're still technically working during the week ahead, and I'd imagine promoting the new season is work the CW would consider important. 

In regards to the whole film star thing, personally, I think that's an unfair comparison. What we have to remember is that most television shows have four or five leads if not more. The work load is therefore divided into five whereas with Supernatural it was divided into two. It is very rare for a show to have a set up like that. The only comparable example I can think of is the X Files and even it didn't keep both leads for its entire run. Therefore, J2 were working a ridiculous amount of hours in the earlier seasons. Far above and beyond the work load given to actors on other shows. IMO, the work load they have now / the amount they appear on episodes is comparable to the leads / main cast on pretty much every show. Yes, it is far less than what they used to work, but hardly the same as a lead role with four lines, or at least that's my opinion. 

Well said.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

What we have to remember is that most television shows have four or five leads if not more. The work load is therefore divided into five whereas with Supernatural it was divided into two. It is very rare for a show to have a set up like that. The only comparable example I can think of is the X Files and even it didn't keep both leads for its entire run. Therefore, J2 were working a ridiculous amount of hours in the earlier seasons. Far above and beyond the work load given to actors on other shows. IMO, the work load they have now / the amount they appear on episodes is comparable to the leads / main cast on pretty much every show. Yes, it is far less than what they used to work, but hardly the same as a lead role with four lines, or at least that's my opinion. 

Sure. But the fact of the matter is they aren`t in an ensemble show and the show does have a different set-up then most. Maybe the writers could have turned it into an ensemble if they had started earlier but it`s way too late now. Of course a two-lead show will call for a much heavier workload than other shows. Though for example Stephen Amell probably works much longer hours despite being on a show with a bigger cast.

So by virtue of SPN being the show that it is, you can`t be a lead on it and expect to have the work schedule of an actor on a big ensemble show. THIS show does not function well with it. Again, that could have been changed but the few recurring characters that have struck a chord with the audience, the show has killed off/keeps killing off. Or they can`t seem to integrate them for crap. They tried the ensemble approach with the X-files, with varying success. 

Hence, I stand by my point. The Js know what kind of show they are on and what that entails. If they`d rather be on a show like Lost or Game of Thrones with a million cast members where the work can get spread around much more easily, fine, but then go and be on such a show. SPN is just not a good fit for this. To me that`s like wanting to have your cake and eating it too. And the results are far from pretty. 

And I`m someone who would be fine with a more broad approach, trying to integrate reccuring characters better. I hated the revolving door for Cas whom they never even tried to just really bring in for a Season, just to try something fresh.  

[Diane]

7 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sure. But the fact of the matter is they aren`t in an ensemble show and the show does have a different set-up then most. Maybe the writers could have turned it into an ensemble if they had started earlier but it`s way too late now. Of course a two-lead show will call for a much heavier workload than other shows. Though for example Stephen Amell probably works much longer hours despite being on a show with a bigger cast.

So by virtue of SPN being the show that it is, you can`t be a lead on it and expect to have the work schedule of an actor on a big ensemble show. THIS show does not function well with it. Again, that could have been changed but the few recurring characters that have struck a chord with the audience, the show has killed off/keeps killing off. Or they can`t seem to integrate them for crap. They tried the ensemble approach with the X-files, with varying success. 

Hence, I stand by my point. The Js know what kind of show they are on and what that entails. If they`d rather be on a show like Lost or Game of Thrones with a million cast members where the work can get spread around much more easily, fine, but then go and be on such a show. SPN is just not a good fit for this. To me that`s like wanting to have your cake and eating it too. And the results are far from pretty. 

And I`m someone who would be fine with a more broad approach, trying to integrate reccuring characters better. I hated the revolving door for Cas whom they never even tried to just really bring in for a Season, just to try something fresh.  

That is just your opinion I disagree. I have really enjoyed that last couple of seasons and obviously others have too.

[MysteryGuest]

I don't think this is any different than what they've been doing the last few seasons.  I think they fly home late Thursday, or Friday morning, and return to Vancouver on Monday.  Which means they shoot their scenes Tuesday,  Wednesday and Thursday, for the most part.  They won't be going home this weekend, so they might miss a day of actual shooting for the 1st two episodes.  But as someone else pointed out, this is promotion for the show, not a vacation, so I have to think the show runners have worked it out somehow.  Many of them will also be at the convention this weekend.

[SueB]

2 hours ago, Diane said:

That is just your opinion I disagree. I have really enjoyed that last couple of seasons and obviously others have too.

Exactly.  Just because many of the posts are filled with bitterness does not mean that is the universal perspective in fandom.

Pellegrino tweet:

So, he's not in Vancouver "hogging all the screentime" for those concerned. 

[Wayward Son]

It makes me curious though. If J2 are at San Diego, Misha isn't in the episode apparently and Mark Pellegrino is in LA then who will be filming for the next few days? Could it be Samantha Smith / Mary in the AU? Maybe interacting with AUs of former characters? 

[SueB]

Sam & Jim Beaver?  Jack (character)? Establishing shots for the rest of the year?  They have probably 4-6 scripts in hand.  Even if principle photography is all "in sequence" they have much they can be doing.

I'm a bit surprised they get the all 4 days (and it's not "time-off", this'll count towards their publicizing respnsibilities), then again, Conan has clearly figured out SPN gets a crowd... maybe they are doing some interviews and that maybe what the WB wants right now.   

[catrox14]

That's what I mentioned upthread.  A lot of AU stuff. It makes since if they need to resolve Mary or figure out what they are doing with her. 

10 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

It makes me curious though. If J2 are at San Diego, Misha isn't in the episode apparently and Mark Pellegrino is in LA then who will be filming for the next few days? Could it be Samantha Smith / Mary in the AU? Maybe interacting with AUs of former characters? 

[catrox14]

 This is from 18 hours ago. Could Ruby be making an appearance. I know it might just be them on set with Jared for a visit, but I'm curious with all the talk about past characters. (PLEASE NO. I don't want any more Rubys of any flavor).

I'm also trying to figure out from the costumes if those are Ruby's LOL

 

[Jonesy]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

It makes me curious though. If J2 are at San Diego, Misha isn't in the episode apparently and Mark Pellegrino is in LA then who will be filming for the next few days? Could it be Samantha Smith / Mary in the AU? Maybe interacting with AUs of former characters? 

Frankly we still don't know if Misha will be in episode 2 or not--no solid info on that.  That said the way it's scheduled as someone pointed out the J's may only miss a couple of days for that episode which is somewhat par for the course now.

[nightwing877]

3 hours ago, Jakes said:

Frankly we still don't know if Misha will be in episode 2 or not--no solid info on that.  That said the way it's scheduled as someone pointed out the J's may only miss a couple of days for that episode which is somewhat par for the course now.

Yep we don't know, because not everything shoots in order, sometimes they shoot two episodes at once to work around schedules? I mean the AU story could be shooting stuff now, giving everyone time off and the AU footage filming now could be for more than one episode. 

[Pondlass1]

It's very easy to shoot 'conversation' scenes that contain S&D without them actually being there.  It's all in the direction and camera angles, etc.  The scene in What Should... the actress playing Jessica wasn't even there, for example.  So negotiated time off shouldn't be a problem in that regard.

However, hatching S&D lite episodes seems to be a dilemma for  our unimaginative PTB.  Most watch for the charismatic brothers.  Even after all this time they are the story.  The Vampire Diaries brothers could go missing and things chugged along (there was even enough fodder for a spin off), but Supernatural tends to fall flat when S&D are not on screen.   They have solid actors portraying interesting side characters, but keep writing them separate.  It has never really been an ensemble.

Instead of meshing peripherals  ( like C2) into the ongoing S&D story, they kept sending them off on their own on some mission or other.  And mother Mary isn't around five minutes before she's shipped off as a BMOL disciple.  Castiel must continually be depowered and off to sort something out somewhere else. Crowley gets soft over the years and has mummy issues.

If they wove characters together more and wrote all involved in the ongoing seasonal arc, there could be time off for the Js and it doesn't fall flat.  Ensembles should pick up the slack.

Instead it's kind of like ... meanwhile back at the long ranch.

I'd also be ok with a brother exclusive MOTW during a season - starring only Dean, or only Sam or even only Castiel.  I do appreciate these lads work long hard hours often in cold damp woods at 2 am.  They've done their time in the trenches.  I appreciate they want time off.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

However, hatching S&D lite episodes seems to be a dilemma for  our unimaginative PTB.  

Yup, if the writing picked up the slack, the drastically minimzid work schedule in the last few years wouldn`t have been so awkward and noticeable. But that`s not gonna happen with/under Dabb. I mean where do the PTB hear the frenetic clamoring for intense Lucifer focus? In their heads?    

[AwesomO4000]

7 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

However, hatching S&D lite episodes seems to be a dilemma for  our unimaginative PTB.

I guess for me, it depends on the writer. I really wish Robbie Thompson was still around, because despite being somewhat Sam and Dean lighter, both of his "Don't Call Me Shurley" and "Safe House" episodes were two of my favorite episodes of the series... I'd put both in my top 25 at present.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I guess for me, it depends on the writer. I really wish Robbie Thompson was still around, because despite being somewhat Sam and Dean lighter, both of his "Don't Call Me Shurley" and "Safe House" episodes were two of my favorite episodes of the series... I'd put both in my top 25 at present.

I have a funny relationship with Robbie Thompson. He's written arguably my top 10 five Dean centric eps with First Born and Cain was awesome.   I love Slash Fiction.  But man Don't Call Me Shurley just annoys me to no end. Forever pissed about Chuck being God so that takes him down for me. Charlie became too much of a Mary  Sue for me in the end but I loved her in her in s8 and s9. IMO bringing her back as Dark Charlie didn't help. 

So on balance I suppose I'd trade him for Davy Perez than's for sure. I just want Ben Edlund back the most LOL. He could write really great MoTW and he seemed to be excellent with writing Cas.

[Jonesy]

On another site they showed all the CW Comic Con posters that are hanging up now--and like we saw before it's the one from last year with Mark photo shopped out and Misha now in the middle as the same Cas and slightly behind the J's and it says SPN season 13 and gives the start date.  So just another point showing not much of a worry about Cas/Misha...he'll be prominent as he usually has been, otherwise they wouldn't bother advertising him on that poster.

[Wayward Son]

27 minutes ago, Jakes said:

On another site they showed all the CW Comic Con posters that are hanging up now--and like we saw before it's the one from last year with Mark photo shopped out and Misha now in the middle as the same Cas and slightly behind the J's and it says SPN season 13 and gives the start date.  So just another point showing not much of a worry about Cas/Misha...he'll be prominent as he usually has been, otherwise they wouldn't bother advertising him on that poster.

Interesting they haven't shopped in Pellegrino considering the focus Dabb has said he'll be getting this season. 

[catrox14]

31 minutes ago, Jakes said:

On another site they showed all the CW Comic Con posters that are hanging up now--and like we saw before it's the one from last year with Mark photo shopped out and Misha now in the middle as the same Cas and slightly behind the J's and it says SPN season 13 and gives the start date.  So just another point showing not much of a worry about Cas/Misha...he'll be prominent as he usually has been, otherwise they wouldn't bother advertising him on that poster.

 

Back in s7, Misha was at the Comic Con panel before s7 aired and they gave no hints that Cas was going to be killed off two episodes into the season.  Misha took photos with the entire cast, did round table interviews like always. 

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying if the is killing off Cas AS WE KNOW HIM,  they are aren't going to take Misha off the promotional material before the season starts. Cas' status is in limbo.  They came up with new s12 promotional stuff AFTER the season started. Those new pics I think came out like half way into s12.  My point is that promotional stuff means very little when they can just PhotoShop someone out.   I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but I'm not banking on it at all.  

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by catrox14

[catrox14]

ETA: They had to have known Misha was being written out of s7 before comic con in 2011 because they started filming July 6, 2011 and comic con panel was on July 24, 2011.  In 2014, Demon Dean was shown the door in the 3rd episode of s10 and they had already filmed it when they showed the sizzle reel at Comic-Con And Jensen even said in roundtable interviews he hoped Demon Dean would stay awhile when he already knew it was over. 

My point is that it's all spin spin, spin, get the fans hyped for the premiere. They aren't going to alienate Misha/Cas fans by taking him off the posters for comic con even if they kill him 2 or 3 episodes into the season.

And to be really Debbie Downer, BuckLemming are writing 13.02. They are the SPN executioners. I trust NOTHING. Not even Misha being a series regular. He could do 3 episodes and be dunzo.  It happens. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by catrox14
2014 for s10 not 2015.

[Jonesy]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

ETA: They had to have known Misha was being written out of s7 before comic con in 2011 because they started filming July 6, 2011 and comic con panel was on July 24, 2011.  In 2014, Demon Dean was shown the door in the 3rd episode of s10 and they had already filmed it when they showed the sizzle reel at Comic-Con And Jensen even said in roundtable interviews he hoped Demon Dean would stay awhile when he already knew it was over. 

My point is that it's all spin spin, spin, get the fans hyped for the premiere. They aren't going to alienate Misha/Cas fans by taking him off the posters for comic con even if they kill him 2 or 3 episodes into the season.

And to be really Debbie Downer, BuckLemming are writing 13.02. They are the SPN executioners. I trust NOTHING. Not even Misha being a series regular. He could do 3 episodes and be dunzo.  It happens. 

Well I'm feeling very safe also adding the various times Misha mentioned the subject.  I think we are safe but yeah I get you don't want to be surprised unpleasantly.  I think it's all good this year but I get the impulse to paranoia. 

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Well I'm feeling very safe also adding the various times Misha mentioned the subject.  I think we are safe but yeah I get you don't want to be surprised unpleasantly.  I think it's all good this year but I get the impulse to paranoia. 

 

There  is past history that has demonstrated the shenanigans this show will get up to with their characters for "DRAMA" and to create buzz. And get eyeballs on the premiere.

The only thing Misha has said that I'm aware of is that "Cas has a future" and he's going to find it challenging to play Cas.  That doesn't clear up for me, whether that will be OUR Castiel, the angel of Thursday, an AU Cas, or another character altogether being played by Misha Collins. My worry (not paranoia) is for OUR Cas.  Human Cas would be OUR Cas but anything else is not.  So they could have Misha for 12 episodes and still kill off Castiel in the early part of s13 only to have him return in episode 12 or 13 for the run to the finale.  Again, that's speculation coming from past history , not paranoia.

 My point was more that marketing materials at Comic Con are used to promote the show.  They are used to appeal to the fans to make sure they tune in to see their favorite characters fate in the fall. Given how popular Castiel is in general, IMO, they wouldn't want to remove him until his fate is known to the audience. And that fate can change whenever the writers choose to change it.

[Pondlass1]

14 hours ago, catrox14 said:

BuckLemming are writing 13.02. They are the SPN executioners. I trust NOTHING. Not even Misha being a series regular. He could do 3 episodes and be dunzo.  It happens. 

It ain't gonna happen.  Cas is the third pillar holding up this show and they need him even more now that Crowley has fallen.  I'm not a Cas fan, but if I was I'd be more worried that they're going to muck about with his character yet again than kill him off.  They've stripped poor Cas of everything since he arrived... but I just wish we could get back the original. He was sexy and cool.

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

It ain't gonna happen.  Cas is the third pillar holding up this show and they need him even more now that Crowley has fallen.  I'm not a Cas fan, but if I was I'd be more worried that they're going to muck about with his character yet again than kill him off.  They've stripped poor Cas of everything since he arrived... but I just wish we could get back the original. He was sexy and cool.

I LOVE Cas, but I'm not sure that the show would see it like that. We know from Dabb they have Mark Pellegrino poised to replace Mark Shepherds / Crowley's role as a regular. Then they also have Samantha Smith waiting in the wings to replace Misha if needed. She was a series regular in all but name last year. She actually appeared in more episodes than both Misha and Mark last year. She appeared in 13, Mark S in 12 and Misha in 11. Then they could easily use Jack as a regular if needed and there's a cast of 5 without any Misha.

[Pondlass1]

I agree we may see more of Mary as they have to set up the Wayward Ones and I think she'll join that show if it spins off.   Lucifer is pretty much past his sell-by date.  I don't know what the powers are thinking, no one seems thrilled except MP himself (according to tweets)

Jack could be interesting. He could be very interesting.  I don't much like the set up of Winchester brothers as parents, but with some imaginative story telling Jack could be something new and fresh and Castiel could be part of it.

Worry is a misuse of the imagination.  Cas will be around for another 11/12 episodes this season just like before.  I'm in the minority but I'd like a hard as nails, flinty Cas more in line with that new body belonging to his owner.  Maybe an AU Cas?

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I agree we may see more of Mary as they have to set up the Wayward Ones and I think she'll join that show if it spins off.   Lucifer is pretty much past his sell-by date.  I don't know what the powers are thinking, no one seems thrilled except MP himself (according to tweets)

Jack could be interesting. He could be very interesting.  I don't much like the set up of Winchester brothers as parents, but with some imaginative story telling Jack could be something new and fresh and Castiel could be part of it.

Worry is a misuse of the imagination.  Cas will be around for another 11/12 episodes this season just like before.  I'm in the minority but I'd like a hard as nails, flinty Cas more in line with that new body belonging to his owner.  Maybe an AU Cas?

As a Cas fan Id utterly loathe that on a long term replacement basis. To me killing off our Cas and replacing him with an alt is completely disrespectful to the character and the fans who've spent nine years invested in his personal journey. I'd rather no Misha / Cas than that personally.

 

Dean is your favourite correct? Try to think of how you'd feel if 13x01 killed our Dean off, but decided to replace him with an alt Dean with no history or emotional connection to Sam, Cas and the rest of the characters on the show. Would you be OK with that since it's still Jensen and some version of Dean? 

[gonzosgirrl]

Sam Smith Instagrammed this. I suspect that if they do expand the AU and have part of the story take place there, it will look more like this (with some lighting filters, like they used in The End) than the desolate war zone we saw in 12x23.

[Jonesy]

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

 

There  is past history that has demonstrated the shenanigans this show will get up to with their characters for "DRAMA" and to create buzz. And get eyeballs on the premiere.

The only thing Misha has said that I'm aware of is that "Cas has a future" and he's going to find it challenging to play Cas.  That doesn't clear up for me, whether that will be OUR Castiel, the angel of Thursday, an AU Cas, or another character altogether being played by Misha Collins. My worry (not paranoia) is for OUR Cas.  Human Cas would be OUR Cas but anything else is not.  So they could have Misha for 12 episodes and still kill off Castiel in the early part of s13 only to have him return in episode 12 or 13 for the run to the finale.  Again, that's speculation coming from past history , not paranoia.

 My point was more that marketing materials at Comic Con are used to promote the show.  They are used to appeal to the fans to make sure they tune in to see their favorite characters fate in the fall. Given how popular Castiel is in general, IMO, they wouldn't want to remove him until his fate is known to the audience. And that fate can change whenever the writers choose to change it.

We have clearly have disagreed on this for some time and continue--which is fine, we all don't think alike.  Misha said 3 things...Cas has a future(Cas not an AU), secondly Cas will be back so that's not the worry...the issue is how death changes Cas(a version of Cas like we have seen multiple times is my take) and thirdly to a fan worrying we won't get real Cas but AU Cas...Misha said do NOT believe all the rumors you hear.  Misha clearly has said Cas is back not AU Cas.  And season 7 did not have Misha on the poster at SDCC or later, I checked...so that season was different.  That Misha is being advertised on the poster for season 13 is the cherry on the top to all Misha has said.  And I disagree that the show would pretend Cas is alive or possibly alive then take Cas away a second time...that would be worse than just doing it once.  That would be a bad move for promo and imo they would not do that.  I think the Cas worry is slightly paranoid BUT that's my take...we will see.  Cas is an established part of the show and will remain so...and certainly aren't going to replace him with Mary or anyone else.

Here's my prediction for Cas...he's still a regular for S13 and may have a version of Cas being changed by his experience but ultimately he still has the same history and personal connections.  I'm as confident in this as Jessica from Tree Topper who's been trying to talk down some Cas fans from the ledge.   I also predict that Cas not dying at this point makes him safe until the series finale--when all bets are off.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Jakes

[Aeryn13]

Quote

As a Cas fan Id utterly loathe that on a long term replacement basis. To me killing off our Cas and replacing him with an alt is completely disrespectful to the character and the fans who've spent nine years invested in his personal journey. I'd rather no Misha / Cas than that personally.

 

Dean is your favourite correct? Try to think of how you'd feel if 13x01 killed our Dean off, but decided to replace him with an alt Dean with no history or emotional connection to Sam, Cas and the rest of the characters on the show. Would you be OK with that since it's still Jensen and some version of Dean?

I know this wasn`t adressed to me but I agree with you in terms of Cas. Having only an AU version from this point forward with the original character we`ve known for years just being dead and gone would feel cheap and disrespectful. Like the character was utterly replaceable. If his death had had meaning and gravitas at least, it wouldn`t feel so cheap but that can`t be fixed. They can only fix it by bringing him back at this point. 

Meanwhile if Dean was replaced, I`d feel it would be equally shitty because it would be a new character pretty much and it would feel like the old one just got dumped. Again, depending on how the exit went. If it was an epic, meaningful death - maybe. I want that to happen for the end anyway. So if it happened earlier and they brought in a different character, so to speak, it could work. Provided the character wasn`t portrayed as a coward or wimp or incompetent. Anything else but that. Ironically, his emotional connections with other characters would be the thing I would not be sad to lose. Like pretty much at all because from that stem a lot of my problems. Another version wouldn`t have reason to play doormat and take crap which would make me so happy.

The difference between both scenarios is the amount of focus that would be alloted to either character. Neither one is Sam, of course, but they`re not gonna stop with the revolving door approach to Cas. And if it was a new version, basically a new character to introduce and get the audience invested in them, allthewhile getting over the sting of actual!Cas death and they wouldn`t even have all the episodes to do it? Big nope.

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, Jakes said:

secondly Cas will be back so that's not the worry...t

This is where I think we are interpreting Misha's IMO vague commentary differently.

Misha at JIBcon: 

My transcription: I think it's accurate.

"I think that I'll be back on Supernatural uh... in s13..umm.  I think we will see Cas again. But the question is, what this death does to him.    Um...is you know, ah...is I think the one to wonder about you know.  In Supernatural, um...a .a..a...character's death can mark a big sort of transition point for them. Um. and I think, I think what we'll need to wait and see is like how....how this transforms him. Um.. but I do think we'll see a version of him again, there's also this parallel universe in which possibly everyone is alive in a different iteration. So you never know.'  

Then at PHXcon he said this when asked about Alternate Universe Castiel:

" Who is leaking this information? I wouldn't put too much stock in the rumors that you hear or Twitter for that matter. " 

Misha never answered the question at all. He talked around it. Either way he is saying two opposite things in JIBcon and PHXcon if one thinks he did answer the PHXcon question.

This is why I am less convinced than others that Cas will remain OUR Castiel.   Misha being on the posters for marketing, does not guarantee that Misha will be back playing the Castiel that has existed since s4. This is my concern. Even the reprogrammed Castiel and rebuilt is still OUR Castiel. Even when he was Emmanuel, he remembered eventually who he was. When he was possessed by Lucifer he was still OUR Castiel. 

The only certainty thus far is that Misha filmed 13.01. We know there is a funeral pyre for 13.01. We know Dabb is being vague about all the characters that died in 12.23. 

I'm with @Wayward Son in that I don't want OUR Cas to be replaced permanently or altered so that he's not the Cas we've had since s4. For a short time? I can live with it. Through the end of the show? NOPE.

I think about Demon!Dean.  I probably could have lived with Demon!Dean to the end of the show because he was still Dean. He wasn't a different person. He had the same soul that was twisted to it's darkest part which made him do things he wasn't likely to have done otherwise. IT WAS DEAN WINCHESTER in his own meatsuit with his own demonized soul.  Soulless Sam was still Sam but without his soul. He was making choices because he had no soul but he was still in his own meatsuit.

I think of Future!Dean and Future!Cas who were both still Dean and Cas with their same histories, same memories, same past lives and experiences. They were not Earth 25 Dean and Cas to Earth 1 Dean and Cas. It was an alternative future, not an alternate universe.  Even a Michael!Dean would still be Dean inside because it's possession. All of those options I could probably live with because I could still see the Dean in all of them.

To me an AU character is like Shapeshifter!Dean. He was not Dean. He downloaded Dean's memories but he did not behave like Dean. He wasn't even good at acting like Dean. His personality came through not Dean's. He was a bad imposter.  None of Dean's essence so to speak.

Since the boys do not exist in the AU according to the finale, none of the characters including Cas would have any emotional connection to the boys so there is no emotional pay off for me.  I suppose if they wanted to do an "It's a Wonderful Life" kind of thing that would interesting, but the final outcome is known with the scorched Earth 2.

What might be fun is if OUR Castiel is actually stuck in the AU, and he decides to use all the principles of life with the Winchesters to preach the Winchester Gospel  and he ends up creating a religion based on the Winchesters and how they lived and fought as hunters in the other universe. Maybe a goofy 'historical documents' confusion like in Galaxy Quest that Castiel uses to bring peace to the AU.  Then Castiel can come back Dean and Sam alive and well.

I've also wondered if Sam and Dean having stepped foot into the AU alters the AU in a wibbly, wobbly timey wimey...stuff...way.  Seems like it should.

[Jonesy]

49 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This is where I think we are interpreting Misha's IMO vague commentary differently.

Misha at JIBcon: 

My transcription: I think it's accurate.

"I think that I'll be back on Supernatural uh... in s13..umm.  I think we will see Cas again. But the question is, what this death does to him.    Um...is you know, ah...is I think the one to wonder about you know.  In Supernatural, um...a .a..a...character's death can mark a big sort of transition point for them. Um. and I think, I think what we'll need to wait and see is like how....how this transforms him. Um.. but I do think we'll see a version of him again, there's also this parallel universe in which possibly everyone is alive in a different iteration. So you never know.'  

Then at PHXcon he said this when asked about Alternate Universe Castiel:

" Who is leaking this information? I wouldn't put too much stock in the rumors that you hear or Twitter for that matter. " 

Misha never answered the question at all. He talked around it. Either way he is saying two opposite things in JIBcon and PHXcon if one thinks he did answer the PHXcon question.

This is why I am less convinced than others that Cas will remain OUR Castiel.   Misha being on the posters for marketing, does not guarantee that Misha will be back playing the Castiel that has existed since s4. This is my concern. Even the reprogrammed Castiel and rebuilt is still OUR Castiel. Even when he was Emmanuel, he remembered eventually who he was. When he was possessed by Lucifer he was still OUR Castiel. 

The only certainty thus far is that Misha filmed 13.01. We know there is a funeral pyre for 13.01. We know Dabb is being vague about all the characters that died in 12.23. 

I'm with @Wayward Son in that I don't want OUR Cas to be replaced permanently or altered so that he's not the Cas we've had since s4. For a short time? I can live with it. Through the end of the show? NOPE.

I think about Demon!Dean.  I probably could have lived with Demon!Dean to the end of the show because he was still Dean. He wasn't a different person. He had the same soul that was twisted to it's darkest part which made him do things he wasn't likely to have done otherwise. IT WAS DEAN WINCHESTER in his own meatsuit with his own demonized soul.  Soulless Sam was still Sam but without his soul. He was making choices because he had no soul but he was still in his own meatsuit.

I think of Future!Dean and Future!Cas who were both still Dean and Cas with their same histories, same memories, same past lives and experiences. They were not Earth 25 Dean and Cas to Earth 1 Dean and Cas. It was an alternative future, not an alternate universe.  Even a Michael!Dean would still be Dean inside because it's possession. All of those options I could probably live with because I could still see the Dean in all of them.

To me an AU character is like Shapeshifter!Dean. He was not Dean. He downloaded Dean's memories but he did not behave like Dean. He wasn't even good at acting like Dean. His personality came through not Dean's. He was a bad imposter.  None of Dean's essence so to speak.

Since the boys do not exist in the AU according to the finale, none of the characters including Cas would have any emotional connection to the boys so there is no emotional pay off for me.  I suppose if they wanted to do an "It's a Wonderful Life" kind of thing that would interesting, but the final outcome is known with the scorched Earth 2.

What might be fun is if OUR Castiel is actually stuck in the AU, and he decides to use all the principles of life with the Winchesters to preach the Winchester Gospel  and he ends up creating a religion based on the Winchesters and how they lived and fought as hunters in the other universe. Maybe a goofy 'historical documents' confusion like in Galaxy Quest that Castiel uses to bring peace to the AU.  Then Castiel can come back Dean and Sam alive and well.

I've also wondered if Sam and Dean having stepped foot into the AU alters the AU in a wibbly, wobbly timey wimey...stuff...way.  Seems like it should.

Well seems I lost my last response--just said we both want the same thing, so I understand you worries.  But we both clearly have different interpretations on real Cas returning(I'm sure, you have some doubts) and what was said--and we're both firm in our views, so no need go further...we'll see what happens. 

[companionenvy]

Taking all of Misha's comments together, I'm more confident than Catrox is a) that some flavor of Cas/Misha will still be around on a semi-regular basis and b) that there is a good chance that "our" Cas is still around.

However, I'm not as confident as Jakes - I'd put it at about 75 % that we get the return of our Cas.

For me, "Cas has a future" does imply "Cas, the character that you know and love, not a doppleganger from an AU." However, it isn't SO clear that Misha would be lying if it turned out not to be the case. Misha plays the character of Castiel. If he is still playing an angel named Castiel in the vessel of Jimmy Novak -- especially if the point of major divergence in the two realities is, as it seems to be, in the relatively recent past -- I could still see him thinking of it as "Cas has a future." Castiel is millenia old. AU-verse, whatever the other differences, is substantially similar enough to our reality that a hunter named Mary Campbell fell in love with a man named John Winchester circa the 1970s. That means that, while for our purposes, the things that make Cas meaningfully Cas -- which happened quite recently -- wouldn't have happened, the vast majority of his experiences might well still be intact. Essentially, we'd be getting Cas circa 2008. That wouldn't satisfy me,  but while it isn't the most obvious interpretation of Misha's comment, it wouldn't be totally inconsistent with it either, IMO.

I do think that there is pretty much 0 chance that all we see of Cas/Misha will be a funeral scene in 13.01. I'd be shocked if he weren't in at least as many episodes as he was in in S7. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by companionenvy

[gonzosgirrl]

So maybe not  spoiler, per se, but from AD Jason Fischer

[catrox14]

Well shit.

Saving Mary from the AU?

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Well shit.

Saving Mary from the AU?

Or at least curled up in a ball crying. Over who/what is the $64 question, LOL. 

[rue721]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Well shit.

Saving Mary from the AU?

The gif is from Saving Private Ryan, it's not a spoiler.