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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

Yes, as hard as it was for Sam to grow up, having never known his mother, I think it was much worse for Dean to have her taken from him in such a horrible way.  If they gloss over that and make it all about Sam, I won't be happy.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Well, I don`t consider this interview spoilery per se. It just appeared to be random speculation and some overly enthusiastic Sam-stanning. But it didn`t strike me as having a spoilery undercurrent.

All in all, I can`t see how the Mary thing won`t be wrapped up by episode 2. And then it will be faux Watcher`s council time. 

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shang yiet

shang yiet

I don't see why Mary can't meet both Sam and Dean. It would be unfair if Mary acts like Dean is her only son. I think what she did to Sam was the catalyst of the show and it should be addressed. It's pretty horrible for Sam to know she sold him out to save young John. And that she died because she rushed to the nursery to save him.

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SueB

SueB

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1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Unless Jared has gone completely out of his pattern of talking about the SL's that affect Sam more than Dean's, I'm thinking now that if Mary is on the earthly plane and she remembers her deal then she'll ask Dean to take her to Sam who probably won't be there because of Lady Milady. And it becomes Dean and Mary trying to find Sam. And along they way, Dean will tell her all about Sam's upbringing. 

I will happily eat my hat if that does not turn out to be the case and that Dean and Mary talk about Dean's life, but I'm not gonna hold my breath 

What mother is going to get a supernatural reunion with their child and spend the whole time asking about the other child?  I'm pretty sure we're supposed to LIKE Mary.  

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catrox14

catrox14

10 minutes ago, SueB said:

What mother is going to get a supernatural reunion with their child and spend the whole time asking about the other child?  I'm pretty sure we're supposed to LIKE Mary.  

I'm basing my comments off what I think is a pattern of Jared talking about what he thinks would be Sam's mindset etc and what would affect Sam's SL.

If this is Mary after she died, then it  makes perfect sense to me that her infant son might be the one she's thinking about first.  If this is the Mary in Home and she remembers them as grown children I think she'll still think of Sam's welfare first. She is his youngest child and the one she spoke to in Home and that's the child that was affected by the deal she made with Azazel. So I think that's who she'll be worried about first. And that's no reason to dislike Mary. That's just what I think the writers will place the emphasis on.

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SueB

SueB

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2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm basing my comments off what I think is a pattern of Jared talking about what he thinks would be Sam's mindset etc and what would affect Sam's SL.

If Jared had brought up Mary and started talking about her, I could see how the Sam/Mary relationship might be a topic in the first two episodes. But he didn't. The interviewer, Vlada G asked (apparently, because it wasn't written as a direct question): 'Should the opportunity present itself for another family reunion, does Sam need closure with his mom?"

And Jared starts with "Not as much as Dean does...."  And THEN goes on to directly answer the question regarding Sam/Mary. 

Compare that with the 2015 SDCC roundtables... where Jared talked about the visions at several of the tables. That was Jared talking about his storyline. This, IMO, was Jared answer a direct question with a thoughtful answer. That doesn't mean Sam/Mary is handled at all. Just that this is his take on what Sam needs. 

And remember how many people decried the SDCC roundtable interviews as anointing Sam once again the "Chosen One" status in S11?  Clearly THAT didn't play out that way. Dean was clearly the "Chosen One".  Up to and including the final "save the universe" moment.  

Unlike SDCC, where we all get the full videos pretty much at the same time and the reporters can no longer shape the story THEY want to tell, this is a reporter who has had two stories out of one night on the red carpet**.  If and when the 2016 SDCC roundtable interviews come out we'll get a better sense, I suspect, of what Jared believes HIS story is all about.  As you said there IS a pattern with these two when the interviewers ask open-ended questions like "what's new for S12?". Jared generally talks about Sam's storyline. Jensen talks about the show overall and then drops a spoiler or two.  Remember how confused we were about him saying "but where IS the Mark? That's the question."  And we were all like WTF?  Didn't that Mark go away?  And of course the Mark was central to the S11 bond between Amara and Dean.  BUT, if either is asked a direct question, they do answer a direct question.  

 

**ETA: In the Access Hollywood interview, Jared said he hadn't seen the scripts yet.  They were going to look at them the next day.  So, his response to Vlada G. was without any script knowledge as well.

Edited by SueB
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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

Well, however it plays out, I still hope they tie up the Mary storyline pretty quickly.  I know that JDM wasn't available to come back, but that would have been the better choice, IMO.  I just don't think that either Sam or Dean really have an issue with Mary.  She made the deal to save John, but she had no idea what the YED was actually talking about.  Had she known, I think her decision might have been different.  Of course, we'll never know for sure.  But they both have a shit load of issues with their father.  That could fill an entire season.

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catrox14

catrox14

I feel like my commentary is being construed as Sam v Dean wank. And that really bothers me because it's not. Interpretation and speculation is not wank. 

It's fully Jared's prerogative to talk about Sam in whatever manner he chooses. Whether he's answering a direct question, answering a leading question which is what I think the TVLine question was or he brings it up himself, whichever way it comes about Jared talks about Sam's SL the whole story. That's not bashing it's just how he generally rolls. 

At the end of s11 Amara said she was giving Dean what 'he needed most" and then we see Mary which strongly implies that there would be a SL with Dean/Mary and with Sam's SL being with the MoL for the start of s12. 

If Sam's SL is with MoL as the end of s11 implies he could have answered that question in a way that brings it back to Dean/Mary but saying something like " I'm sure Sam would have questions but he's got another bigger problem at hand." He talked about Sam needing/wanting closure with John and Mary which surprised me because I thought he already got that with John in s2 and to a degree with Mary in s1. So it seems to me Jared is thinking about Sam's mindset for a reason which to me implies a Sam/Mary reunion coming sooner rather than later. 

Something else that's giving me pause is that Jensen was asked what's happening with Mary and he said he didn't know yet but he read the teaser for s12 and he's reaction was "Alright, that's where we're going". The last time he said that was with demon!Dean. Make of that what you will :)

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goldy

goldy

While I do think that Mary and Sam will have "the talk" and will bond as mother and son, I believe that it would be Dean and his issues with Mary that would get the greater focus. The deal that Mary made with Azazel affected her whole family, not just Sam. And this is, IMO, what Jared was trying to say; Sam needs closer, but Dean needs it more. 

I'm guessing Sam's storyline in S12 will be a mixer of his relationship with Mary as well as the lady Toni and MOL stuff that we saw in the S11 cliffhanger. When the focus would probably be on the MOL/Toni stuff. I'm also guessing that Sam and Toni will start up as enemies but will end up as friends (lovers even). And since we saw Toni's son in the S11 cliffhanger, I'm guessing he'll too will have a part in the S12 MOL storyline.

 

Quote

If Sam's SL is with MoL as the end of s11 implies he could have answered that question in a way that brings it back to Dean/Mary but saying something like " I'm sure Sam would have questions but he's got another bigger problem at hand." He talked about Sam needing/wanting closure with John and Mary which surprised me because I thought he already got that with John in s2 and to a degree with Mary in s1. So it seems to me Jared is thinking about Sam's mindset for a reason which to me implies a Sam/Mary reunion coming sooner rather than later. 


That was probably because he was asked specifically about Mary and Sam's relationship with her.

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catrox14

catrox14

3 minutes ago, goldy said:

 

While I do think that Mary and Sam will have "the talk" and will bond as mother and son, I believe that it would be Dean and his issues with Mary that would get the greater focus. The deal that Mary made with Azazel affected her whole family, not just Sam. And this is, IMO, what Jared was trying to say; Sam needs closer, but Dean needs it more. 

I'm guessing Sam's storyline in S12 will be a mixer of his relationship with Mary as well as the lady Toni and MOL stuff that we saw in the S11 cliffhanger. When the focus would probably be on the MOL/Toni stuff. I'm also guessing that Sam and Toni will start up as enemies but will end up as friends (lovers even). And since we saw Toni's son in the S11 cliffhanger, I'm guessing he'll too will have a part in the S12 MOL storyline.

 

Quote

If Sam's SL is with MoL as the end of s11 implies he could have answered that question in a way that brings it back to Dean/Mary but saying something like " I'm sure Sam would have questions but he's got another bigger problem at hand." He talked about Sam needing/wanting closure with John and Mary which surprised me because I thought he already got that with John in s2 and to a degree with Mary in s1. So it seems to me Jared is thinking about Sam's mindset for a reason which to me implies a Sam/Mary reunion coming sooner rather than later. 


That was probably because he was asked specifically about Mary and Sam's relationship with her.

 

I know that's what he was asked about. But IMO he gave a much more lengthy answer than the question really required. JMO

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

I'll be pretty surprised myself if Sam has much to do with Mary. I agree with Aeryn13 that Mary's storyline will likely be wrapped up fairly quickly, likely before Sam has returned or been saved from Lady Milady.

I only hope that Dean and Mary don't have to go and save Sam with Mary sacrificing herself to do so - ugh. That would be yet another thing Dean would have to give up for Sam and I'd hate it. Yet another thing for Sam to have to feel guilty about and be in debt to Dean for.

The current set of writers have generally trended towards characters not being associated with Sam, and those that once were - like Meg, Lucifer, and for a bit Crowley - to end up being associated with another character instead like Castiel or Dean. I think Lady Milady is likely all Sam is going to get.. unless - as some speculation has suggested her son is somehow related to Dean... in which case it might then become about Dean. But I would hope that this show wouldn't go there as that would be getting much too soap opera-y for my liking.

The interview sounded to me more like wishful conjecture on Jared's part, especially since he prefaced it with Dean being the one to need more closure. The show trend has also been that Dean is the one who generally does most of the alternate dimension hopping, so if Mary is not in the current reality, Dean is likely the one who will be seeing her.

I just hope that the Lady Milady storyline will get to go somewhere interesting. It's been a while since Sam has gotten to have a storyline that actually goes somewhere of importance not related to starting an apocalypse - probably about 3 seasons or so.

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ZennyKenny

ZennyKenny

When Dean opened his eyes and they were black, I was legitimately shocked, as well as excited. What possibilities for storylines they could do! Dean overthrowing Crowley as King of Hell! Dean making demon's his bitches! Maybe an epic and emotional battle between Dean and Castiel in order to turn him back to normal!

Then bad karaoke happened.

Then when the Darkness was unleashed, I was skeptical, but still saw potential to make a scary-as-hell villain that made darkness threatening. Maybe you had to stay in the light to avoid being consumed. Maybe shadows came alive with glowing eyes and spindly fingers that reached out for you, dragging you into nothingness if they caught you.

Then Amara happened.

Now, thinking about the future Mary storyline, I feel nothing. In fact, I'm already impatient with it and just want it to be over. M.O.L. as the possible season's big bad? Meh. My imagination can't even conjure up exciting scenarios. It's just not that interesting. I'm honestly going into season 12 with the lowest expectations I've had out of any season. But maybe it's better this way. My brain seems to take the show in directions that it just doesn't want to go anymore.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

Something else that's giving me pause is that Jensen was asked what's happening with Mary and he said he didn't know yet but he read the teaser for s12 and he's reaction was "Alright, that's where we're going". 

Right now there are a few possibilities. Has Dean been transported back in time or to another plane of existance and/or does Mary remember everything, at least up to the events of home or does she only know her kids as little children? The teaser most likely answers that. It would if Mary adressed Dean by name already. So IMO that was what Jensen refered to in the interview. Maybe he expected it to go another route. I found it hard to tell if he liked or disliked it in that clip.

In the end, like I said, I can`t see how much story material you can get from bringing Mary back. She has been out of their lives for too long. It would be mega-weird to bring her back into it longterm.

On the other hand, I would expect Dean to be drawn into the faux Watcher`s storyline as well. I mean Lady Milady inquired after him. And the only reason she went after Sam is because only Sam was there at the moment. He was a victim of opportunity more than one of choice. But her/their accusations overall refer to both brothers. 

Though, honestly, I can`t see much story material to be wrung from this either. Are they gonna be hunted by those people now? Because color me unimpressed.

I guess only Comic Con will give us a better understanding of what they plan to do with the Season. And yes, while last year`s Comic Con painted somewhat of a false picture, it was still an atrocious case of PR. I mean, everyone and their dog salivating over Sam`s supposed great new Chosen storyline was one thing. Even not wanting to give away spoilers about the connection Dean would have with Amara was one thing. But they had nothing to say about Dean. Zip zilch. Not even pretend busybody stuff. Given the history of the show and that they KNOW this is a sore spot, the easiest thing in the world would have been to simply say "Dean will have something great going on, we can`t get into it now". Nope, they trot Jensen out to Comic con and leave him hanging with nothing to say in all those interviews about what his character is gonna do in the new Season. I have never seen anything so bloody stupid promowise as this.

So hopefully, this year`s Comic Con will be a lot more inclusive. And if Dabb wishes to turn the show into "Bloodlines: this one for realsies" because his passion actually lies with writing posh people and secret societies and he is still bummed he didn`t get to run THAT show few years back, then this will probably come out too.      

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

http://tvline.com/2016/06/29/supernatural-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-season-12-wish-list/

 

Quote

Dean may need to learn to share his BFF, because Padalecki would like “some nice Sam/Castiel scenes,” the actor tells TVLine. “I love Misha [Collins]. I get a lot of Sam/Dean scenes, and I love Jensen, but I love exploring the Sam/Castiel relationship,” too.

Ackles’ wish list is a throwback to the series’ early days — and a world Dean left behind far too quickly.

“Purgatory, I thought, was a really, really cool part of the story,” he shares. “That might be cool to maybe go revisit.”

“I’d also like to see more of a hunter network,” Ackles adds. “I’m a big fan of the original format of the show, the monster-of-the-week kind of thing. [But] I don’t know how we necessarily get back to that with everything that’s happened.”

Edited by catrox14
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7kstar

7kstar

Looking at all the information we've been given I don't really see much of anything.  I can't get hot and bothered about any of it.  I would love for there to be some mystery that was fun to speculate on, but the past has shown that we get excited about it only to have it evaporate and not even make a big splash.

To me it sounds as though BOTH Jensen and Jared are spinning with nothing to say.    To some degree they may also be tired of some of the complaints that show up no matter what they give.  My only hope with so many new people we will get a chance for something fresh.  The show needs it. 

I'm kind of tired of the big bad driving the show as they fail with it more than they succeed.  Oct. is pretty far off, so maybe in a couple of months we'll get something interesting to explore.  But right now I don't think we've gotten anything to suggest anything other than what we know.  Did she shoot Jared and What happens once Mary speaks to Dean?

Do I think Mary needs to be with both of her sons...sure but then the head writer is a guy so he may not care to explore that.  Robbie had some really spot on story suggestions that Carver wouldn't even look at.  To be honest I'll be surprise if they do this right to begin with.

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SueB

SueB

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32 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

Looking at all the information we've been given I don't really see much of anything.  I can't get hot and bothered about any of it.  I would love for there to be some mystery that was fun to speculate on, but the past has shown that we get excited about it only to have it evaporate and not even make a big splash.

To me it sounds as though BOTH Jensen and Jared are spinning with nothing to say.    To some degree they may also be tired of some of the complaints that show up no matter what they give.  My only hope with so many new people we will get a chance for something fresh.  The show needs it. 

I'm kind of tired of the big bad driving the show as they fail with it more than they succeed.  Oct. is pretty far off, so maybe in a couple of months we'll get something interesting to explore.  But right now I don't think we've gotten anything to suggest anything other than what we know.  Did she shoot Jared and What happens once Mary speaks to Dean?

Do I think Mary needs to be with both of her sons...sure but then the head writer is a guy so he may not care to explore that.  Robbie had some really spot on story suggestions that Carver wouldn't even look at.  To be honest I'll be surprise if they do this right to begin with.

I'm 99.9% confident that all of Vlada G's TVLine reports (which are then picked up and re-transmitted by others) is simply from her red carpet interviews with the boys at the Saturn Awards. MAYBE she pulled them in a room and got additional details but it was at the Saturn Awards which was the day before they were handed the scripts.  I think they got the teaser for the first ep on their phone or something but full scripts didn't come until the next day. 

Bottom Line: Except for the sense that we get some key data in the teaser, I'm pretty sure everything the boys said at the Saturn Awards was just their thoughts and not based on either writer interaction or scripts. NOW, however, they know more and any new interviews (other than recycled Saturn Award data) will be potential spoilers.

I'm not saying the interviews are not interesting, they are, but they are not script based.

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catrox14

catrox14

http://tvline.com/2016/06/30/agents-of-shield-season-4-spoilers-lmd-life-model-decoys/

 

Quote

 

So much Supernatural news this week. Dare we ask for more? — Dee
Dare away! During Vlada Gelman’s recent chat with the “brothers,” Jensen Ackles said he plans to break his recent streak of directing an early-season episode, explaining, “I just decided to take the first part of the season easy. Twenty-three episodes [per season] is a long, long shoot, and I usually would direct the first episode that we would film… so it’s basically like sprinting the first several miles of a marathon, which doesn’t really work if you’re a good runner. You want to pace yourself, so I’m going to pace myself this year.”

 

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7kstar

7kstar

21 hours ago, SueB said:

Sure seems like there's real interaction with Mary as a parent. 

Have they posted anything to confirm this?  I would like to see Mary and hope that the interaction is strong and adds to the story-line.  :)

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SueB

SueB

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17 hours ago, 7kstar said:

Have they posted anything to confirm this?  I would like to see Mary and hope that the interaction is strong and adds to the story-line.  :)

My comment was based on Jared's comment at PittCon where he talked about Mary. 

Quote

@spn_obsess

S12 will get more into the minds of the boys due to marys return#PittCon

I thought I saw a video snippet (can't find it now) with the whole exchange.  Since Jared has read the first two or three scripts, I presume this is an early-on comment.

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SueB

SueB

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I am soooo happy that Misha feels Cas has his grove back. It may not last all season but I really need to see him excel for a little while.  

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catrox14

catrox14

So...I've been thinking.  Is Dean finally going to be free of Amara's bond/influence now? Or will he be forever thinking of her because of Mary? Will he realize that Amara resurrected Mary?

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

20 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So...I've been thinking.  Is Dean finally going to be free of Amara's bond/influence now? Or will he be forever thinking of her because of Mary? Will he realize that Amara resurrected Mary?

I don't think that Dean will still be under the influence of Amara next season.  Possibly if she were actually around, he might be, but I believe we've seen the last of her.  

I'm still not sold on the "bring mom back" storyline, so I really hope the writers have a solid plan for how this is going to play out.  I really want to be excited about this season.  

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catrox14

catrox14

So I watched that livestream and it's spoilery. Dorks. FYI, Jared was not filming today because he was spotted in Austin with a fan. There is a pic on Twitter with the person. He's clean shaven and in board shorts. His hair looks reasonable! LOL

Jensen is wearing the same clothes as the finale and his stunt double was on set wearing the same outfit implying there is a stunt that requires his double. O_O

I thought I heard Samantha Smith's voice but I can't be sure. I did hear someone say something like "she'll be in the back." Don't know if that means Mary but if I heard her voice then I guess yes?

If this is the first episode being filmed that means Dean and Cas are together. Why would they be together when Cas thinks Dean is dead, (which BTW...which makes me wonder why Cas wouldn't sense that Dean wasn't dead. I mean it always bothered me that Cas didn't sense Dean was dead in s9 but maybe because he was in Heaven, I dunno). Annnnyhoo, how does this come to pass?  

Last we saw Dean's phone doesn't work so maybe Dean prays to Cas when he sees Mary because Dean must be thinking WTF is this, yes? Or is this being filmed out of order and this happens in the 2nd episode? Hmmm

I will say this is the first thing that has me at least a little excited about s12. 

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catrox14

catrox14

http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/spoilers

from TV Guide Comic Con edition:

 

Quote

What do the British Men of Letters want?

The British Men of Letters haven't allowed a "Supernatural" related death in their territory since 1965. One of their members, Lady Toni Bevell, made quite an entrance, showing up in the Winchesters' Kansas bunker and shooting at Sam.  Though his character is the target, Padalecki understands where she is coming from. "She really thinks of Sam and Dean as villains," he says.  "To her, they started the apocalypse and nearly got God killed."

Who will save Sam?

Castiel will be "extremely motivated to get Sam back," executive producer Andrew Dabb says.  "He does things we know Cas is capable of but we haven't seen him do in recent years." 

What does the return of the boys' mother mean? 

Mary learns "these two kids [she left behind] have grown up into men who are hunters - something she tried to avoid," Dabb says.  "She's kind of their mother in name only.  She's meeting her sons again, but they are not what she expected in some ways, she is not what they expected."  

Where the hell is Lucifer (Mark Pellegrino)?

"Cas feels like it's his mission to try and make that right," Singer says.  Crowley is also on Lucifer's trail, but unlike the Winchesters and Castiel, he doesn't merely want to stop him, he wants payback for humilating him in front of his former minions," Dabb says.  I think it's very personal for Crowley, in a way a lot of stuff isn't."  

What's next for Rowena (Ruth Connell)?

The Scottish witch...may take her wicked ways down a notch now that she "has seen that being all-powerful isn't all it's cracked up to be," Singer says.  "But one always has to be suspicious of Rowena." 

Check for this edition on the newstands.  It says that it hits newstands July 19th, but some places are putting them out early.  There are spoilers for lots of other WB shows too like "Blindspot," "The Flash," "Supergirl," "Arrow," "Gotham," "The Big Bang Theory," "The 100," "The Vampire Diaries," "iZombie," "Lucifer," and "The Originals" as well as previews for new shows "People of the Earth," "Frequency," "Time After Time," "Riverdale," and "Powerless."  

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catrox14

catrox14

The part with Mary bothers me quite a lot. It seems really cruel to Mary to resurrect her unless this is closure and she goes to Heaven. But I'm not getting that vibe at all. How much MORE sorrow will she have now?  How muchmore guilt? Why do this to Mary? She didn't ask for this resurrection.

If she has sadness, anger, hurt and guilt that's going to devastate Dean. He'll probably end up feeling guilty simply for missing his dead mother. He didn't wish or ask for this. He did once and understood the consequence. demon!Dean was trying to hurt Sam by saying what he did to Sam.

I'm trying to not be a big Debbie Downer but I just can't see how this can this be a happy thing for anyone especially Mary.

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

The Mary stuff doesn't worry me as much as the MoL stuff. I mean, sure, it's probably going to be rather sad and all, but what do they mean by:"The British Men of Letters haven't allowed a "Supernatural" related death in their territory since 1965."? That doesn't make any sense. A vampire has never killed anyone? A spell has never gone wrong? I thought they just stuck to their "researching", so how is it they haven't "allowed" shit to happen? 

Sigh.

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catrox14

catrox14

20 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

The Mary stuff doesn't worry me as much as the MoL stuff. I mean, sure, it's probably going to be rather sad and all, but what do they mean by:"The British Men of Letters haven't allowed a "Supernatural" related death in their territory since 1965."? That doesn't make any sense. A vampire has never killed anyone? A spell has never gone wrong? I thought they just stuck to their "researching", so how is it they haven't "allowed" shit to happen? 

Sigh.

Right? Someone is a bad historian in the MoL and/or big fat lying liars who lie.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Who will save Sam?

Personally, I want Sam to save Sam. I'm getting a bit tired of the current writers' seeming obsession with Sam as a damsel in distress. Every once in a while we get an episode where Sam is at least capable of not being a damsel - like "Red Meat" - but those are generally such an exception, they seem almost weird when they do happen. Even when Sam had the arc in season 10 of trying to save Dean, Dean was still having to save Sam ("The Werther Project", for example). I will especially be annoyed if the opening scenes where we see Sam are of him tied to a chair... especially if it's a little wooden one.

Soulless Sam my have been a jerk, but at least he knew how to untie himself and get himself out of stuff... even if he had to bite his own arm to do it.

Can I join you in your *sigh,* @DittyDotDot?

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auntvi

auntvi

9 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I will especially be annoyed if the opening scenes where we see Sam are of him tied to a chair... especially if it's a little wooden one.

If this is how 12-1 opens, I'll be screaming bad words and throwing things at the TV.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
6 hours ago, auntvi said:

If this is how 12-1 opens, I'll be screaming bad words and throwing things at the TV.

If the episode starts where 11.23  left off and no time jump which is implied with Jensen having the same wardrobe and jared himself saying Sam was shot, then  it seems pretty likely that he'll be incapacitated or held against his will in some way. 

I think this could be a two part premiere with a To be continued considering we've had no reports of Jared being on location and he wasn't filming on the day Jensen & Misha were since he was in Austin. Maybe they are just keeping his SL well hidden for reasons or he'll  do more filming next week.

Edited by catrox14
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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

If Sam and Dean are separated--if they pick up where they left off--I wouldn't expect Jensen and Jared to be filming together...necessarily. They were probably just shooting Dean's side of things that day. What Cass is doing there, I'm not sure, maybe Dean prays to Cass?

As a sidenote, I've always wondered where the "outfield" is that the angels get blasted to...but Id on't actually want the show to explain this. I'm thinking the mystery is much more complex than anything they could come up with on this front. Best leave it alone.

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catrox14

catrox14

11 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Sam and Dean are separated--if they pick up where they left off--I wouldn't expect Jensen and Jared to be filming together...necessarily. They were probably just shooting Dean's side of things that day. What Cass is doing there, I'm not sure, maybe Dean prays to Cass?

I mentioned above re Dean praying to Cas but then I got to thinking that Cas still couldn't teleport in the Vessel which is why he had to let Lucifer stay inside him. So unless Chuck gave Cas fully functional wings and can teleport now, Cas wouldn't be able to zap himself to Dean nor zap Dean back to him, but maybe he can still geolocate Dean via angel!Dar but he'll have to drive the Impala there.

Or Dean's phone works and he tries to call Sam first but Sam doesn't answer so he calls Cas to come get him and Mary and Cas drives the Impala to Dean.

Another option is they could be filming out of order and this is the 2nd episode and not the first and this is Dean, Cas and Mary trying to find Sam after Dean gets back to the bunker on his own somehow with Mary.

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auntvi

auntvi

It's not so much that the MoL probably have Sam. It's the picture we've seen so many times of hurt Sam tied to a chair and helpless.  It's getting old & I wish the writers/director would find another way to show Sam in jeopardy.

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