Rory and Logan

[junienmomo]

What is WITS... I haven't watched enough to get anagrams.

Written In the Stars, episode 0503, where Lorelai and Luke have their first sleepover and the town reacts negatively to their relationship. 

[GreenScreenFX]

Thank you!

I will brush up on episode titles

I'm my head it's just... Finally

[takalotti]

Was watching WITS this morning, because, well, I gotta watch WITS once in a while or the healthy level of GG in my bloodstream gets too low, and I must say how much I LOVED Rory's and Logan's 'cute (second) meet.'

This was the one where she is putting up Paris's posters for Asher's wake and Logan and Finn come by looking for Finn's eternal soulmate. 

The dialog between Rory and Logan is hilarious, tightly delivered and some of Alexis' best acting of the series. Czuchry, a more able actor, was the perfect foil to her irritation. That was a real 30's screwball comedy moment for me, and excellently played by both.

I actually can't stand that scene :)

I hate the way Logan is all in her personal space, waving his hands right by Rory's chest. I lean back on my couch on her behalf. And who takes something out of someone else's hands that they don't know? Seriously.

The worst is his defense for talking to Marty like a servant. I mentally scream at Rory to point out that he wasn't paying Marty anything out in the courtyard earlier, so he wasn't his servant then, so FUCK YOU YOU ARROGANT ASSHOLE!

I also get annoyed with Rory for being irritated that he didn't remember her name. SHUT UP, RORY! Not everyone who meets you for 30 seconds goes home and writes about it in their diary and replays it over and over in their heads.

Edited April 15, 2016 by takalotti

[JayInChicago]

It also makes me feel bad for Asher that he was such a disposable character.

[dustylil]

I also get annoyed with Rory for being irritated that he didn't remember her name. SHUT UP, RORY! Not everyone who meets you for 30 seconds goes home and writes about it in their diary and replays it over and over in their heads

 

Or writes Logan and. Rory Huntzberger  repeatedly inside the cover of their geometry textbook.

[AllyB]

I actually can't stand that scene :)

I hate the way Logan is all in her personal space, waving his hands right by Rory's chest. I lean back on my couch on her behalf. And who takes something out of someone else's hands that they don't know? Seriously.

The worst is his defense for talking to Marty like a servant. I mentally scream at Rory to point out that he wasn't paying Marty anything out in the courtyard earlier, so he wasn't his servant then, so FUCK YOU YOU ARROGANT ASSHOLE!

I just hit that episode last night on my rewatch and OMG I hate that scene. I think he was such an irredeemable ass in that exchange that if he had spent the rest of the series saving puppies from burning buildings, Rory should still have been turned off of him. He was vile and childish while under the illusion that he was being urbane and smart. Ugh. I missed that episode when I watched it initially and when I saw it in reruns I never realised that was his first episode. I can't believe that with that as her introduction to Logan that Rory was ever able to have anything to do with him again.

Edited April 17, 2016 by AllyB

[brightside]

It surprises me that people have strong feelings one way or the other on the WitS scene! I kinda saw it has the kind of stupid debate we would have in my common room my freshman year of college, nothing earth-shattering. 

 

I also think Logan was supposed to have a 1930's screwball comedy vibe, which I think Matt Czurchy really nails a lot of the time, but totally misses here. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

Yeah, Logan isn't my favorite guy on the show but I like him fine (especially in season 5) so I never got the whole thing about him treating Marty like a servant. He comes off at best a little stuck up, as most handsome, rich boys do, but still nice. I kinda think Rory comes off looking worst in the WitS conversation, like she's making Marty supposedly being offended all about herself.

 

That said:

 

I hate the way Logan is all in her personal space, waving his hands right by Rory's chest.

 

 

 

I'm not fond of the gesticulating either.

 

 

It also makes me feel bad for Asher that he was such a disposable character.

 

Ah, man, I hate how this storyline was handled. It could have been a really cool storyline for Paris while Rory was having her dry spell. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[dmc]

I thought about that, but since it's so important to have someone who's been 'born and raised to handle the duties' as the wife of the heir(a blueblood like Rory didn't even make the cut in their eyes; someone who was of Shira's social standing sans Mitchum that Emily eluded to that was confirmed by Shira's reaction) wouldn't it be easier to just put Shira and the baby up in a nice apartment/house, pay her money to support the child and herself and stay away? I mean if it's a serious as they make it out to be in that meeting of the parents scene at the huntzberger mansion, then I think Rory would be considered to be more suitable to marry in the family than Shira.

Yes but I believe Emily was of better financial standing, or else she would not have made that gold digger comment.

I also never got the feeling that Shira and Mitchum had a happy marriage.

You don't have to be a member of the DAR to attention some of the functions that they host.  Shira may not be a member but may have still be invited that particular function.  The DAR is big in DC where I am from and they host events where non members come all the time.  From the way Emily addressed Shira, she is not a member.  The DAR doesn't care who you married.  Admittance is based on ancestry. 

[dustylil]

Shira may not be a member but may have still be invited that particular function.  The DAR is big in DC where I am from and they host events where non members come all the time. 

 

But why would she bother? It is not as if the Hartford DAR is  big time socially for someone in Shira's position. Washington and other large cities would be more understandable. Of course, maybe she just enjoys slumming :)

[brightside]

But why would she bother? It is not as if the Hartford DAR is  big time socially for someone in Shira's position. Washington and other large cities would be more understandable. Of course, maybe she just enjoys slumming :)

 

In reality, the Hartford DAR isn't a big thing but it certianly is in the reality of the show. 

[dustylil]

In reality, the Hartford DAR isn't a big thing but it certianly is in the reality of the show

 

I agree. And its members seem to be utterly dumbfounded when people appear  not to be familiar with it.

However, for someone in Shira Huntzberger's position - the well-travelled wife of a media mogul with multiple homes  and who herself rubs shoulders with the literati -  it would be small potatoes.

[brightside]

I agree. And its members seem to be utterly dumbfounded when people appear  not to be familiar with it.

However, for someone in Shira Huntzberger's position - the well-travelled wife of a media mogul with multiple homes  and who herself rubs shoulders with the literati -  it would be small potatoes.

 

Eh, I don't think that's quite true. Image matters so much to them--at if the DAR is trowing the "it" event of the year, the Huntzberger's would certianly want to be there. 

[photo fox]

{snip}-  it would be small potatoes.

 

I thought that was part of the point, actually.  Like Shira could push them around because they were so much less than her.  It's been discussed quite a bit upthread and she was actually really "low class" compared to the Huntzbergers' usual crowd, and I'm sure they made her feel it.  The DAR ladies, however, wouldn't dare to put down Mrs. Mitchum Huntzberger that way, and she knew it.

 

Plus, Rory.

[amensisterfriend]

I stopped by to mention that someone wrote an interesting post in the UO thread about the ways in which Logan and Lorelai are surprisingly similar, but of course now that I'm here I'm thinking again about Logan, Logan/Rory and how I vacillate so weirdly between loving him/them, not liking him at all, and everywhere in between :) I've honestly NEVER been as inconsistent and conflicted about a character and relationship! 

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 also think Logan was supposed to have a 1930's screwball comedy vibe, which I think Matt Czurchy really nails a lot of the time...

Oh my gosh, I've said the same thing! We know that AS-P was a big fan of those films, and the wild playboy charmer who falls for (is 'tamed' by?!) a more serious, intellectual female who challenges him to become his better self while he 'loosens her up' or whatever is so prevalent in those. And Matt C. did do well with AS-P's trademark rapid-fire, screwball comedy dialogue---it's his facial expressions that were more irksome to me, and as I've said here, something about the actor's smirk just makes me love the character less than I normally would. When I force myself to see it as a genuinely playful, life-loving grin, I can deal with it much better and actually LIKE that AS-P deviated from the usual moody, negative, dour males she often enjoyed writing. Other times, though, that same smirk/grin just comes off as smarmy and condescending (to me---I know many don't think he comes off that way!), and then I cringe and start thinking about which other actors I might wish had played this part :)  And sometimes throughout S5 and maybe even more in S6 I wondered whether the writers and directors deliberately wanted Logan to come off like someone we couldn't quite trust or were at least unsure about. It read like they  had no real clue where they were going with him and the Rory/Logan storyline and could never make up their minds whether people were supposed to root for them or want her to 'wake up' and find someone else. 

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Yeah, Logan isn't my favorite guy on the show but I like him fine (especially in season 5

I'd love to hear why you love him most in S5! The general consensus seems to be that he grew throughout the series, but I actually think I had more issues with him in S6 than S5. He was definitely more likable and mature to me in S7 (for the most part), but I actually felt like maybe he lost some of his energy along the way and that Rory had more of a chemistry and connection in previous seasons than in the final one...? So either S5 or S7 was when I liked him more and S6 is when I liked him least, but to be fair, S6 is when I liked almost EVERY character least :)  

I do think AS-P went too far with some of how they depicted him (like she had him sleep with ALL the bridesmaids?! Really?!), but that's the kind of vaguely character assassinating stuff that a lot of characters underwent those seasons in the name of drama and/or comedy, so I pretty much have to remind myself it's a deliberately exaggerated, hyper-stylized show to keep liking anyone :) 

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I also get annoyed with Rory for being irritated that he didn't remember her name. SHUT UP, RORY! Not everyone who meets you for 30 seconds goes home and writes about it in their diary and replays it over and over in their heads.

Ha! It's so true. And it's not like they had even exchanged more than a quick introduction, right?! I get that Logan forgetting her name was partly to drum home that he's just got suuuuuch an active social life and meets so very many people (especially females) that he can't bother retaining all of their names, but I wouldn't have recalled Rory's name in that instance either. That said, while I have mixed feelings about that infamous initial scene with Rory, Logan, Marty, Colin and Finn, I agree with those who actually really like their second encounter. Logan did come off a bit too slick, but it also established that he was witty, lively, challenging and intellectually compatible with Rory in a way that Dean wasn't.  

Edited June 29, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[fitzcarraldo]

I am only watching season six for the firsr time now so cannot judge their relationship to end. So far, Rory is kinda wimpy around Logan so what kind of good influence on him is she supposed to be? She was more feisty with Tristan. Logan she mopes over. I dont like this Rory. When she yells for the servants to make more coffee at that DAR event, and wanting to show off Logan Huntzberger to the DAR ladies, was kinda icky. Did she like Logan for his societal status after all? 

[amensisterfriend]

Yeah, it's funny, because as much as Tristan was a jerk who I'm glad Rory never actually dated, I actually did like the sharp, assertive, feisty and spirited sides he brought out in Rory. One of the reasons Logan/Rory tends to work better for me in theory than execution is that even though we're supposed to feel Logan brings out this adventurous, vibrant, life-seizing side to her, Alexis Bledel never really sells me on it---ironically, she seems kind of flat and bland around Logan more often than not. 

[fitzcarraldo]

It comes off as if she is just people pleasing, to me, rather  than enjoying herself. I never wanted her with Tristan but liked that she rooted for him. I liked Rory helping out Paris back then too. Where did her spine go?

[TimetravellingBW]

I feel Logan did bring out a more impulsive, outgoing side to Rory - he was basically Tristan 2.0 and Logan's different energy and banter was great. For me it always comes down to feeling Logan is a good character, but not liking Logan/Rory together, or Rory's characterization with Logan. 

Logan/Rory just seemed too different to be viable as a long term couple. It never felt authentic that Rory, who in the first four seasons disliked the partying/clubbing scene so much, (see: Her first party at Yale, Spring Break episode, going out with that guy Emily set her up with) would actually fit in with Logan and his partying lifestyle and friends. That leap was always too big and unbelievable for me. Rory became unrecognizable - and not particularly likable - after getting together with Logan. I agree with posters on previous pages that who Rory became was not Logan's fault, but it means I could never root for them as a couple. 

Also yeah, Logan felt too "temporary" to be sold as end game for Rory. It's notable that their biggest stable, adult relationship stuff happened in Season 7 - post ASP leaving. A big theme of the show was Rory exploring between the mother's world (Stars Hollow) and her grandparents wealthy world. (Chilton and later Yale). The guys she dated always felt like they represented those two sides: Dean was the small town boy and Logan was the rich Yale socialite.

Rory "trying out" her grandparents world was an essential arc, and Logan fitted that at the time, but it felt like a phase. I thought the show was leading to Rory finding a guy balanced between the two worlds: S6 suggests Jess could offer an alternative world of her own (artsy, intellectual etc.), though in S2 and 3 he was more just her rebellious/sexual awakening. Someone like Marty would have worked - Yale student, but poorer background. (I actually loved Marty and in real life he'd definitely be the most compatible with Rory, but Logan was a more interesting, if douchy character and made better TV). 

Also yeah, they went overboard with how much of a dick Logan was initially. With their first meeting, him not remembering Rory was her being oversensitive but the way he treated Marty was way too much- and that was Logan's establishing character moment! (Reinforced with the maid debacle later). The whole witty "well he is kinda my servant" banter would work as a hypothetical debate, but not when Logan was actually treating people like dirt. It was a level of self-absorbed, petty cruelty that crossed a line, despite his character development later. (For me that's the main difference between Logan and Jess: Both were douchebags, but Jess lashed out at people who had power/input over his situation while he had no control -  Luke, Lorelai, the principal, even the townspeople. Logan deliberately and carelessly hurt people he had power over and weren't impacting him).

Edited July 7, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[cuddlingcrowley]

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Logan did come off a bit too slick

I like Logan and I definitely like the actor who plays him. He's exactly the "type" of fictional male character that usually draws me in but, in general, Logan comes off way too "slick" for Gilmore Girls. He belongs to a different show, imo. In turn, when Rory was with him it felt very much she had become an almost entirely different character in order for them to match.

 

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It comes off as if she is just people pleasing, to me, rather  than enjoying herself. 

Quote

 

Also yeah, Logan felt too "temporary" to be sold as end game for Rory.

 

ITA. Through s6-s7, Rory comes across to me like she's trying out an entirely new personality in order to fit in Logan's glossy, adventurous and glamorous world. I don't blame her; it's/he's awfully enticing on so many levels. But the writing on the wall was always very clear that they weren't meant to be.   She was always gonna outgrow him when she managed to find her own REAL adventures as a journalist and become more comfortable in her own skin. It fits on so many levels that when being with Logan became about settling down and limiting oneself Rory bolted. Which is why I have a hard time picturing them as endgame EVEN if ASP had been the one to write the last season, when they were by far at their most solid.

I don't get what's left to tell of their story. Does ASP want to do her own version of them falling apart that badly?

If Rory is ready to "settle down" now then we're supposed to be believe a guy like Logan has been, on some level, waiting for her all these years? Come on! 

[patchwork]

It wouldn't surprise me, the show had a habit of not letting the love interests move on even if they were in a relationship with someone else they were still hung up on Rory/Lorelei.

Off the top of my head I can think of Chris, Dean, Jess, Max and even Marty who despite all logic were all eager to get back together with their Gilmore girl.

[clack]

I'm disappointed that no one (Marty? Paris?) ever confronted Rory about the possible self-interest of Rory having journalistic ambitions, and then conveniently dating the heir to a journalistic empire.

The show itself never really addressed the issue, either. I mean, Rory didn't consciously scheme to land Logan because of who his father was, but it was part of the unconscious attraction, surely?

[Anela]

14 hours ago, clack said:

I'm disappointed that no one (Marty? Paris?) ever confronted Rory about the possible self-interest of Rory having journalistic ambitions, and then conveniently dating the heir to a journalistic empire.

The show itself never really addressed the issue, either. I mean, Rory didn't consciously scheme to land Logan because of who his father was, but it was part of the unconscious attraction, surely?

I remember when she was trying to get Logan to invite her to a party of his fathers', but it didn't work. I can't remember who she wanted to meet. I think Logan took someone else (because it wasn't the sort of party that he'd stay at for long, and they also weren't dating at the time).

[absnow54]

I could have sworn there was a Logan thread, but couldn't find it, so I'll post here. I'd never thought of Logan as Rory's Christopher until ASP started calling him that leading into the revival, and watching the revival, it was obvious in the scene between Rory and Christopher that they were trying to push that, but I didn't make the connection while watching the original series. However, the episode where Christopher first visits Stars Hollow in season 1 was on last night. The one where he rides in on a motorcycle and tries to buy Rory's love with expensive gifts and charms the top off of Lorelai and is the golden boy in Richard and Emily's eye even though his business deal is failing, and I thought, Yes. This is how I picture Logan as a father. And it made me sad how enamored teenage Rory was of Christopher, and how heartbroken she was when he left. I hope Rory and Logan will be better co-parents since they're going into this as adults, but I can definitely see Logan as the type of parent who is this huge dedicated presence when he's around, but leaves a massive void while he's away.

[tarotx]

Except we have things like Skype now and Logan was shown to talk to Rory on the phone at any hour even when Odette was sleeping. Logan does have a big presence and likes a show but he also let Rory complain and get out her frustrations about life. If going by both what was shown on screen and how Matt played him, Logan would not be like Christopher. He's around 34 and has settled into his family business. This time in his life he's not rebellious or presenting a character front. He's who he is - the good and bad. I can really see why Rory would both want him in her life but fear he's too much to be who she would settle down with. While Rory's the charming girl he just can't quit. He adores her but maybe she doesn't have enough of a certain presence to be welcomed or even want to live in a "high-social" lifestyle that he was groomed for. (Rory gets shy and rumbly when she's under stress). I understand how they got themselves into this situation. By not talking about themselves having a future beyond the moment.                        

I personally think they would find a way to co-parent and be friendly even with their history. It's how I would write it.  And him living in London and her settling in Stars Hollow (while also doing book tours) would make it both easier and harder at the same time. I wish these characters were mine because I care about all of them. I want Rory to write a whole book series about people living in Stars Hollow. Though it would mostly be fictional at the same time autobiographical. I wish it was her own idea.

Edited December 2, 2016 by tarotx

[junienmomo]

3 minutes ago, tarotx said:

I want Rory to write a whole book series about people living in Stars Hollow. Though it would mostly be fictional at the same time autobiography. I wish it was her own idea.

It irks me that the writers want us to consider Rory as an independent talented woman, but then other people give her all her ideas.

[tarotx]

Logan and Rory do use each other to escape. That doesn't mean they don't love each other. They must have decided that they live in different worlds and the merging wasn't going to be possible but they couldn't let each other go. That probably happened when they set up their Vegas conditions-Maybe the last time they talked about the future until Rory ask if he's really marrying Odette. Logan and Rory don't see themselves as cheaters. That's why the Wookie one night sex freaked Rory out. She did consider that cheating. Logan and Rory have set up this "relationship" that they are perfect for each other when they are together but that is because they live in a bubble not talking about relationships. Just creating this fantasy bubble for Rory. She has this very fit and experienced guy she can come have sex with whenever she's in London and she can call him whenever and talk about her problems. Though his real life was starting to seep in with the help of her feeling stuck with Paul and a career that wasn't making her happy. 

It's why I love their life and death Brigade Wizard of OZ ending. It was romantic (love&adventure) fun and bittersweet. For Rory, a reentrance into the real world. Rory finally asks Logan if he was going to marry Odette and he told her it was the dynastic plan-Meaning his life outside Rory. Rory wasn't going to be able to pretend their real life didn't matter anymore. Logan was going to settle down in his real life and she needed to let him go to do that. Rory is Logan's Christopher and he like a favorite whimsical book she goes back to over and over. Nothing to gain from going back to it but the escapism was very much needed for a time (that they let go on too long). I think that is why Rory wasn't reading a lot in the revival.  

Of course, all of this would have worked better with a 24/26-year-old Rory and Logan. Oh well, I still think this is how the revival played out. Now if there is a 2nd revival and Logan is Rory's child's father, it'll be interesting to see how Rory and Logn interact outside their escapism. And to see if ASP lets Logan, Odette, and even Rory be real people with flaws but allowed to grow as people. I pray she doesn't keep them in a limited "full circle" redo. 

Rory not being the one to come up with her own book &/or memoir idea is the one thing I can't get over. Everything else works ok once I de-age Rory (Lorelai as well )back a few years. I like Jess and even think the show having him come in here and there works as a (perfect boyfriend) light Rory isn't seeing yet. They just go too far with it. Rory can't be smart and find her own way. She has to have a boy do it :( 

[Viqutorious]

Fun article and Matt Czuchry's view of Logan.

"Logan should chase down Rory and make that work'

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/01/gilmore-girls-matt-czuchry-logan-chase-down-rory

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

"Logan should chase down Rory and make that work'

Oh boy, does Matt live in his own fantasy world. That is not the way the story is written. Rory can't be the "love of his life" if he won't leave Odette and the life he has chosen. ASP has shown that Logan and Rory are little more than f-buddies. Not once, even in the fantasy sequence with the LADB, did I feel that there was love between Rory and Logan. You as an actor, or viewer, cannot project a feeling that is not written in the story. 

[tarotx]

1 hour ago, Aloeonatable said:

Oh boy, does Matt live in his own fantasy world. That is not the way the story is written. Rory can't be the "love of his life" if he won't leave Odette and the life he has chosen. ASP has shown that Logan and Rory are little more than f-buddies. Not once, even in the fantasy sequence with the LADB, did I feel that there was love between Rory and Logan. You as an actor, or viewer, cannot project a feeling that is not written in the story. 

 

Matt was asked for his advice to his character. And don't marry Odette was part of his answer. I think plenty of people felt Rory and Logan love each other even if it's not something either character thinks is the most important part of a lasting relationship. Matt Played Logan loving Rory and ASP &company allowed him too. They never told Matt that Logan was supposed to be a nasty Christopher wannabe.... 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

On 12/2/2016 at 2:52 PM, junienmomo said:

It irks me that the writers want us to consider Rory as an independent talented woman, but then other people give her all her ideas.

Talented people are inspired by others all the time. It doesn't take away from them.

The work would be her's if Rory wrote a bestseller regardless of where she got her inspiration. Although I suspect she'll be accused of being a special someone that everything good happens to if she did find success and be accused of being a failure if isn't well received. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[JustaPerson]

I was a Logan fan when I saw the original series and i figured Logan/Rory would at best be friendly exes and awkward ones at worst and she would end up with Jess or no one. So I was pleasantly surprised but so dismayed with what the revival gave us. Why did Paul/Odette need to be there? Paul  I suppose for the that terrible, unnecessary  joke about forgetting to dump him (and forgetting him in general) but Odette? To make Logan and Rory look worse? I just feel like the storyline could have been done without them with Logan/Rory secretly together, both pretending their relationship was simply a casual one, trying to ignore all the complications (mostly from his family) of their being together. I agree with other posters that said that the two of them seem to be completely in love with other but afraid to say it for whatever reason. The "arrangement" and perceived casual nature of the relationship when it seemed to be mean more on both ends or just cowardice? Or at least that's how Matt and Alexis were playing it? Because that's what I got. Which only served to confuse me even more. Logan/Rory had sweet moments in the revival, but they all felt tainted with the knowledge that they were cheating on other characters who didn't feel necessary to create drama. 

Of course, this could totally be my Logan/Matt C./Cary Agos (Yes I said it) bias talking

Edited December 5, 2016 by JustaPerson

[Aloeonatable]

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Matt was asked for his advice to his character. And don't marry Odette was part of his answer. I think plenty of people felt Rory and Logan love each other even if it's not something either character thinks is the most important part of a lasting relationship. Matt Played Logan loving Rory and ASP &company allowed him too. They never told Matt that Logan was supposed to be a nasty Christopher wannabe.... 

I guess I define love as caring more about the other person than you do about yourself. I define love as a commitment and not a casual thing. Obviously, each viewer can interpret what they want to see in a character. We never got to see how Logan was with Odette. She wasn't really even a character, so what could Matt say other than "don't marry her." We know very little about how and why Rory and Logan reconnected. All we saw were them hooking up. 

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Why did Paul/Odette need to be there? Paul  I suppose for the that terrible, unnecessary  joke about forgetting to dump him (and forgetting him in general) but Odette? To make Logan and Rory look worse? I just feel like the storyline could have been done without them with Logan/Rory secretly together, both pretending their relationship was simply a casual one, trying to ignore all the complications (mostly from his family) of their being together. I agree with other posters that said that the two of them seem to be completely in love with other but afraid to say it for whatever reason.

ASP had those characters because she wanted to show that Rory and Logan weren't meant to be long term. This is their true characters. How could you love someone who was committed to someone else. The reason Rory and Logan couldn't commit was because they really didn't love each other. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Just watched 7-20 when Rory was being turned down by seemingly every newspaper which reminded me of her being criticized for getting everything she wanted. AB wasn't that great in the finale season but she sold Rory's heartbreak when she got turned down by the NYT.

The reason I am posting this is here is Logan's visit to Lorelai to ask her for Rory's hand in marriage. I am glad that Lorelai had come to finally accept him in Rory's life and MC's depiction of  Logan made me want to cry because I know how it ends. He put his heart into it and Lorelai's stunned reaction says she didn't realize the depths of his feelings. So rewatching their relationship .....

19 minutes ago, JustaPerson said:

I was a Logan fan when I saw the original series and i figured Logan/Rory would at best be friendly exes and awkward ones at worst and she would end up with Jess or no one. So I was pleasantly surprised but so dismayed with what the revival gave us. Why did Paul/Odette need to be there? Paul  I suppose for the that terrible, unnecessary  joke about forgetting to dump him (and forgetting him in general) but Odette? To make Logan and Rory look worse? I just feel like the storyline could have been done without them with Logan/Rory secretly together, both pretending their relationship was simply a casual one, trying to ignore all the complications (mostly from his family) of their being together. I agree with other posters that said that the two of them seem to be completely in love with other but afraid to say it for whatever reason. The "arrangement" and perceived casual nature of the relationship when it seemed to be mean more on both ends or just cowardice? Or at least that's how Matt and Alexis were playing it? Because that's what I got. Which only served to confuse me even more. Logan/Rory had sweet moments in the revival, but they all felt tainted with the knowledge that they were cheating on other characters who didn't feel necessary to create drama. 

Of course, this could totally be my Logan/Matt C./Cary Agos (Yes I said it) bias talking

 it wouldn't have made much sense if during the revival they were together and happy. Their ending was traumatic, coming back together wouldn't be a walk in the park. There are issues they have to resolve in order to have a "Not Vegas" relationship and I guess they want to be together without tackling that painful elephant in the room. Being with other people made it messier but Odett and the guy Rory dated didn't feel real to me, I am not invested enough to analyze their relationships with Logan and Rory given the lack of background except to think that they were plot conveniences to keep Rory and Logan from being in full blown couple and bypassing dealing with the turned down proposal. It is a lazy regardless 

[NumberCruncher]

2 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

ASP had those characters because she wanted to show that Rory and Logan weren't meant to be long term. This is their true characters. How could you love someone who was committed to someone else. The reason Rory and Logan couldn't commit was because they really didn't love each other. 

We really don't know where ASP intended to go here.  She did make the Logan/Christopher parallel but at what point does that end?  The story cuts off as to what happens next so the audience is left to decide.  Does Logan indeed turn into someone unreliable like Christopher or will he go a different direction?  We simply don't know at this point.  Does Logan love Odette?  We really weren't given enough information to draw that conclusion other than a vague statement about a family dynasty.  We literally got zero insight into how Logan feels about her.

Also, people are going to see different things re: the Rory and Logan relationship.  You keep saying they didn't love each other and that's certainly your opinion, but that doesn't mean a lot of other posters didn't see love between them in the revival.   Whether they are long-term/end game is clearly up for debate, but I do think the way Matt and Alexis played their scenes did leave the impression there was something to it beyond just a simple Vegas arrangement.  If it bothers people that Matt keeps making what they consider fantastical statements then so be it, but I suspect he's basing his opinion on the fact that he actually played Logan in a committed relationship with Rory for almost 3 seasons.  Whether ASP acknowledges it or not, Matt did see his character propose to Rory in S7 so, rejected proposal or not, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe Logan to still be in love with her.  After all, Rory even wanted to continue their relationship after she rejected marrying him.  Looking at how S6 ends, ASP herself had Rory and Logan professing their love for each other as they were saying goodbye so again there's at least some justification behind Matt's statement that Logan considers Rory his soulmate.  Whether ASP believes the soulmate argument is anybody's guess because she has literally never addressed that.  She was on record as making certain statements back in the day that Rory and Logan could end up married and happy if they ever got past their individual issues but who knows if she still feels that way?  The point is that it's not completely out in left field that Logan and Rory did and do still love each other even if they can't be together.  That's left up to the audience to decide.

[Lady Calypso]

For me, I don't doubt that Rory/Logan loved each other at various points. Matt and Alexis sold their love more than the writing did. The issue that comes into question is if Logan loved Rory enough. Now, that's a trickier question because his family seems to be more important than Rory, if he's marrying Odette for "dynastic" reasons. Logan and Rory both chose to have a secret/open relationship and live in their own little London bubble. They tried to have everything but in the end, not having Logan choose her caused their relationship to finally end. Logan could never fully commit to Rory. He did try in season 7 but she turned him down. But if ASP doesn't consider S7 Logan/Rory canon, then it doesn't matter. Logan loves Rory, but not enough to go against his own family. So in the end, he's not really choosing her. He needs to get over that before he can ever be in a healthy relationship. 

[Aloeonatable]

Number Cruncher & Lady Calypso, both excellent posts with valid arguments. I guess I just define love differently. I don't care if ASP was trying to draw a comparison with Logan and Christopher. I don't deny that they were in love in the original run of the show, or that even when Rory turned down his proposal that she still loved him. What I saw in the revival was two ex-lovers enjoying each other's company with no talk of commitment. 

9 hours ago, NumberCruncher said:

The point is that it's not completely out in left field that Logan and Rory did and do still love each other even if they can't be together.

What was stopping them? 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Whether or not AS considers S7 is irrelevant because it happened and so this revival didn't happen in a vacum.

I also think the writing sold their love as much as the actors did. Logan reformed to be with Rory, if that isn't love I don't know what it. He was a damn good boyfriend in the last two years of their relationship despite the falter when he had a bad business deal.

What's stopping them from being together? Well the fact that she rejected him and they haven't resolved it is a factor. Again ASP can disregard it but that was a pivotal moment I their relationship and it defines their future relationship. Whatever that might be 

There's also that fan service thing where the show wants to play up all aspects even when Rory never and haven't shown any romantic feelings for anyone since she met Logan. Unless you're counting the TA she had a crush on.

Also leaving things open for a season season of the revival. I don't get why there'll be a cliff hanger otherwise. 

[NumberCruncher]

19 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Number Cruncher & Lady Calypso, both excellent posts with valid arguments. I guess I just define love differently. I don't care if ASP was trying to draw a comparison with Logan and Christopher. I don't deny that they were in love in the original run of the show, or that even when Rory turned down his proposal that she still loved him. What I saw in the revival was two ex-lovers enjoying each other's company with no talk of commitment. 

What was stopping them? 

There could be multiple reasons stopping them.  Maybe Logan figures since Rory rejected him once she would again.  Maybe Logan is trying to spare Rory from his family's ire.  In Rory's case, maybe she's projecting her issues with Christopher onto Logan and is using her mom's history to dissuade her.  Or maybe she saw how Richard and Emily treated someone they saw as less-than-worthy of their daughter's love (Luke) and didn't want to find herself in the same situation with the Huntzbergers.  

[Melancholy]

Say what you will about Lorelai/Christopher (and I'll bash them to kingdom come), ASP did write them as loving each other a lot. So if Logan/Rory = Lorelai/Christopher (the darkest timeline), Logan and Rory are in love. Logan does appear to be falling into Christopher's pattern where the guy loves the girl but not enough to make the girl happy in the long run because that requires commitment, working through challenges together, etc.

However there's a difference between Rory and Lorelai's end. Lorelai loved Christopher but she had her own blocks to love him enough to sustain a healthy relationship because she didn't respect him very much or esteem him as a great guy. She almost fell into the typically masculine role of just loving a partner for being pretty and entertaining even if they're incompetent. And Lorelai could always do that because she had the moral high ground over him. I don't see that with Rory, especially in the Revival. She respected Logan and Paul of the 2 year relationship ensured she barely had minimal moral high ground over him. What's more, Logan appeared to be winning at life more than her while that was basically never the case with Lorelai v. Christopher. (Other than maybe S6 after Chris inherited money and things were at their worst between Luke and Lorelai. And even then, Christopher seemed to just inherit money while Logan had, at least, the trappings of a high powered job and Christopher needed Lorelai's help with Gigi.)

However if Logan = Christopher, maybe this is just the start where Christopher appears to be finishing high school and Princeton bound who made the big family gesture to propose while Lorelai couldn't finish high school and the story hasn't been written on how Lorelai raises Rory alone.

But really, I can't picture Lorelai ever asking Christopher to evaluate a professional crossroads and then following his advice as Rory did with Logan and Sandee Says. Or really venting about a professional challenge as someone who'd get it as Rory did on Niaomi Shropshire. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Melancholy

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

 Maybe Logan figures since Rory rejected him once she would again.  

Of all the reasons you listed, this might be the most plausible. Of course this wasn't ASP's idea as she wasn't there for season 7. My point was merely to emphasize that if you really love someone you make an effort to work things out and make a commitment. You aren't content with occasional hookups and living a lie. Rory realized that after the LADB visit. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Quote

Logan does appear to be falling into Christopher's pattern where the guy loves the girl but not enough to make the girl happy in the long run because that requires commitment, working through challenges together, etc.

 

I agree with with a lot of your post Melancholy, except the part about Logan not loving Rory enough to commit to her and that is what makes him like Christohper. Logan loved her enough to commit to a relationship with her for 3 years then asked her to marry him. So very unlike Christohper who've not been a long term relationship with Lorelai's for longer than a year. Their longest run was when she was rebounding.

The Christopher = Logan simpliy doesn't work.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Melancholy]

No, I agree with you Deputy Deputy Cos. This is me trying to work through the Logan = Christopher parallel indicated by the show runners. I don't feel that way about Logan. I always thought he was a far better man. However the Revival does unquestionably feature Logan making a choice to not commit to Rory. It's a plausible reversion playing heavily that a lot of the "kid" characters were not fully formed or set by the end of the series. It plays more on that general understanding and these Gilmore signals on the evil of the rich than Logan specifically. I am not exactly bashing the choice because I don't think personalities are fully formed at 23 and I think Uber-wealth does enable/foster bad life choices. But I really get how a Logan fan would be hurt at a "general rule of thumb" progression that paints him badly 

[tarotx]

Logan isn't Christopher. Comparing Logan to Christopher as characters isn't something I get. And I've seen plenty who think ASP will do a kind of redoing and not just a full circle. That would not make sense from character POVs or make an interesting original story imo.

Logan being the "Christopher" of Rory's life doesn't make him Christopher. (Right now Rory is more the Christopher even though I'm sure that was an accident of bringing the story forward 9 years). In the original series, Logan was the boyfriend who fully brought Rory to the world that Lorelai&Christopher grew up in. Rory got a taste of how nasty&demanding the adults of that life can be to each other and their kids. It's not just her mom telling her, she's being shown it. The purpose of this is so Rory could be more in her mom's head as she's writing their memoir and makes her own choices when faced a similar unplanned pregnancy. 

This Rory telling her mom's story had to be in the final plans along with the final 4 words. The revival was all about getting Rory there. Jess is brought in to remind Rory how great her mind is so she's in a place to write the story. While logan is placed in circumstances that leave Rory single and pregnant at the end. There is so much left untold because of the 9 years. We don't know why Logan and Rory got back together in their "friends with benefits" type relationship, which is a call back to what Rory originally ask Logan to be in with her.  We don't know how long they have had this relationship. We see that Rory knows she's not the only girl (as we saw earlier that Logan isn't her own guy) and later that Logan is engaged to Odette. We don't know if Odette was fully in the picture from the beginning. We don't know Logan&Odette's history. This Logan&Rory relationship is all about getting Rory where she needs to be for the planned ending. It's not about Logan at all. (I think only the Gilmore girls, Luke and maybe Paris get a POV in the revival).  Though even Rory's current life and choices are just a device to get her to that full circle. Meaning, it wasn't about creating a fleshed out real "person". All of the younger gen feels this way to me. 

I get it. To truly capture the full circle, Rory has to be single and pregnant at the end of this Revival. She has to fully understand who and where Lorelai was at the beginning of their story together. Rory is now where Lorelai was at the beginning of their relationship. That's the full circle ASP had planned. I even like it on a thematic level. I just think the revival was too focused on that full circle that we don't have fully fleshed-out characters. So it's hard to make judgments about where anyone would go if the story becomes more than that full circle again. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by tarotx

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

 Logan loved her enough to commit to a relationship with her for 3 years then asked her to marry him.

That was 10 years ago.

Teenage Christopher was willing to commit to Lorelai and marry her as their parents wanted. I'm not totally sold on the Logan=Christopher, but there are parallels that cannot be denied. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

1 minute ago, Aloeonatable said:

That was 10 years ago.

Teenage Christopher was willing to commit to Lorelai and marry her as their parents wanted. I'm not totally sold on the Logan=Christopher, but there are parallels that cannot be denied. 

As their parents wanted and when Lorelai was pregrent. Also when they were teenagers.

None of those things apply to Rory and Logan.

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

 

I agree with with a lot of your post Melancholy, except the part about Logan not loving Rory enough to commit to her and that is what makes him like Christohper. Logan loved her enough to commit to a relationship with her for 3 years then asked her to marry him. So very unlike Christohper who've not been a long term relationship with Lorelai's for longer than a year. Their longest run was when she was rebounding.

The Christopher = Logan simpliy doesn't work.

I think that you're right in a sense. When they were in college, Logan was able to commit to Rory for a long period of time. He made his mistakes and he had a lot of growing to do in their relationship, but he did commit to her back then. 

10 years later, though? I don't think that's true anymore. Logan/Christopher may have their parallels but when it comes to Rory/Lorelai, both handle the relationships quite differently. While Lorelai left those doors open but never demeaned herself or lowered her self esteem for Christopher (IMO), Rory has allowed herself to willingly participate in an affair, whether she wants to say those words out loud or not, letting Logan be with another girl while being unable to break up with her own boyfriend, and she is perfectly comfortable with hiding their affair. Sure, Rory was comfortable with the affair for who knows how long, and she seemed at least cooperative to allow Logan to be engaged to Odette as long as Logan wasn't living her. But as soon as Rory realized that he could not commit to her, that was the breaking point for her to break it off. Well, until she slept with him after that when he came to town. And Logan was more than happy to have his cake and eat it too. 

Christopher/Logan have its parallels but they're not exactly the same, no matter how ASP presents it. And certainly, Lorelai/Rory handle the situations quite differently. 

[Viqutorious]

5 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

What was stopping them? 

Bad writing.

[Aloeonatable]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think that you're right in a sense. When they were in college, Logan was able to commit to Rory for a long period of time. He made his mistakes and he had a lot of growing to do in their relationship, but he did commit to her back then. 

10 years later, though? I don't think that's true anymore.

I agree. The Rory/Logan relationship at 32/34 is much different than the 23/24 year old one. 

Quote

   8 HOURS AGO,  ALOEONATABLE SAID: 

What was stopping them? 

Bad writing.

LOL. Or they really weren't that committed to the relationship long term.

[Viqutorious]

On 12/4/2016 at 3:52 PM, Aloeonatable said:

Oh boy, does Matt live in his own fantasy world. That is not the way the story is written. Rory can't be the "love of his life" if he won't leave Odette and the life he has chosen. ASP has shown that Logan and Rory are little more than f-buddies. Not once, even in the fantasy sequence with the LADB, did I feel that there was love between Rory and Logan. You as an actor, or viewer, cannot project a feeling that is not written in the story

To be fair he is an actor.  He makes his living in the fantasy world which Gilmore Girls is part of. It is his opinion about a fake person he plays in a fake community. I found his thoughts to be interesting.