Unpopular Opinions

[amensisterfriend]

This is the place to safely confess opinions about Angel that you've found in your experience to be unpopular :) I'll get us started:

 

1) As mentioned in another thread, the first and fifth seasons were by far my favorite of the whole series

2) At this stage of my life, I'm more attached to the first and last season of Angel than any season of Buffy and am much more likely to rewatch them

3) Doyle was easily one of my favorite characters, and I actually found myself semi-shipping Doyle/Cordelia

4) I really liked Kate and actually liked the actress in this role despite hating her on Law & Order

5) I hated Faith on Buffy but really liked her appearances in S1 of Angel.

6) I could have very happily done without seeing Darla again

7) Harmony popping up in S5 delighted me to no end :)  

[Kalliste]

All of the above :) Although I could have lived without Kate.

 

Seasons 1 and 5 are definitely the best! I have to say I don't particularly like season  2 - 4, mostly because of Connor, but I like seasons 1 and 5 so much that I like Angel as a show more than I like Buffy.

 

So yes, I very  much agree with #2 :)

[catrox14]

My unpopular opinions are

Season rankings 5,4,3,2,1

I liked Connor and I think he got a bad rap.

I was not much of a Cordelia fan.

I 'liked' Lindsey.

[amensisterfriend]

kalliste and catrox, thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in my love for season five :-)

I enjoyed Lindsey as well!

I liked Cordelia far more in the first season when she was still very Cordelia-esque, just a slightly more mature, likable and vulnerable version than we saw for most of BtVS. I feel like their attempts to have her evolve resulted in her growing right out of the traits that made her entertaining and interesting in the first place.

And I hate any and all hints of romantic feelings between Cordy and Angel, but I've convinced myself that's not too unpopular :)

[ByTor]

To add to unpopularity...

4) I liked the Kate actress when she was on Law & Order!

6) I would have been happy to never see Darla or Drucilla again!  In fact, I find Drucilla to be one of the all-time most annoying character on any TV show.

[rue721]

I liked Connor, and the most interesting thing about Cordelia post-S2 or so was that she hooked up with him. (Though I guess that wasn't really Cordelia per se? *shrug*).

 

The whole Jasmine thing was interesting. Other than when she was Ilyria, the time I liked Fred best was when she she was on the run from the Jasmine goon squad.

 

Not sure if these are unpopular or not?

-- Wesley and Lilah were good together.

-- I liked Lilah in general.

-- But disliked Lorne with a passion. He wasn't even a good singer, sad to say.

-- Gunn was tragically underused. He could have been an interesting character but...Idk, just didn't happen.

[catrox14]

rue, it's like we have the very nearly same UOs about Angel.  I shipped Lilah and Wesley so freaking hard. I lurved Illyria. I never thought Lorne could sing. And Gunn was vastly underused.

[joelene]

I liked Cordelia far more in the first season when she was still very Cordelia-esque, just a slightly more mature, likable and vulnerable version than we saw for most of BtVS. I feel like their attempts to have her evolve resulted in her growing right out of the traits that made her entertaining and interesting in the first place.

And I hate any and all hints of romantic feelings between Cordy and Angel, but I've convinced myself that's not too unpopular :)

I don't think this is unpopular, at least not if I remember TWoP right, though that's the only place I remember what people thought of Angel from.

Lilah and Wesley seems like a popular couple too. They're certainly my favorite romantic (if you can call them that, heh) couple from the show. My favorite duo were Angel and Cordy as friends. So odd together yet worked magic and amazingly entertaining and sweet during season 2 when they had a brother-sister vibe going on.

I think loving season 4 is pretty unpopular but I think it's great. Deep Down is one of my favorite episodes from the whole series. Lilah chopping Lindwood's head off would rank in my top 10 of favorite moments. I wasn't a fan of Connor and still think it's a difficult character but during rewatches he grew on me a lot and I think him and his part in season 4 is really fascinating. I think his "demise" was fitting.

Here's one: I love I Fall To Pieces. I think it's generally considered one of the worst episodes but because of the main trios entertainment factor I've seen it more times than many of the other episodes. And it's a case. A case with a normal client that doesn't have anything to do with themselves or is part of something bigger or someone from Buffy pops over to visit, it's just them trying to figure out their new jobs and it's just refreshing to watch. I mean if you think about it there weren't many episodes like that. And it includes this line from Cordelia which just cracks up so hard:

"It's just so unfair. I mean, this poor girl, she hooks up with a doctor. That should be a good thing! You should be able to call home and say, "Mom, guess what? I met a doctor." Not, "Guess what? I met a psycho. He's stalking me and, oh, by the way, his hands and feet come off and he's not even in the circus!"

Edited January 8, 2015 by joelene

[cheezwhiz346]

I think this is a UO around certain parts: I really disliked Wesley/Lilah, and I wasn't really a fan of Wesley's more dark/angry seasons (which is basically from Connor-stealing on). It's not that I don't think it made sense that Wesley could be morally ambiguous--everything from him stealing Connor to keeping Justine in the closet to wanting to let Fred kill her mentor was totally in-character behavior--it was that they tried to make him stereotypically 'cooler' while doing those things, and that wasn't necessary, IMO. Nerdy, suited up Wesley from BtVS was perfectly willing to let Willow die in 'Choices.' He didn't need to look/act like, as Willow said, the Marlboro Man to make these kinds of decisions. I felt like the same was true about his relationship with Lilah; that they thought that was a stereotypically 'dark' thing to have happen; for him to be in that relationship. And even then I could see him doing it, but the things he says to her sometimes are particularly cruel, and IDK, I guess I could buy him saying some of the things he said to her, but I feel like I often see Lilah fans like that relationship as well, and IDGI, because he went back and forth from trying to 'save' her (which she didn't need) to putting her down, and was seldom anywhere in-between. I'll have to think of a better way to formulate my thoughts on this, but I think I could have used more of a separation between 'morally gray' and 'badass,' because the one does not necessitate the other.

[joelene]

I think this is a UO around certain parts: I really disliked Wesley/Lilah, and I wasn't really a fan of Wesley's more dark/angry seasons (which is basically from Connor-stealing on). It's not that I don't think it made sense that Wesley could be morally ambiguous--everything from him stealing Connor to keeping Justine in the closet to wanting to let Fred kill her mentor was totally in-character behavior--it was that they tried to make him stereotypically 'cooler' while doing those things, and that wasn't necessary, IMO. Nerdy, suited up Wesley from BtVS was perfectly willing to let Willow die in 'Choices.' He didn't need to look/act like, as Willow said, the Marlboro Man to make these kinds of decisions.

I agree so much with this. I really enjoyed Wesley's dark journey during the airing of it but I think you hit the nail on the head to why I'm not exactly thrilled about the portrayal during rewatches: it's the 'coolness' and the effort to that coolness. And it never looked like he "let himself go" as I think they tried to portray. It was just a drastic, cooler wardrobe change, trimming his beard nice and sexy and getting rid of his glasses. I mean, wtf, where are you glasses, Wes?

I felt like the same was true about his relationship with Lilah; that they thought that was a stereotypically 'dark' thing to have happen; for him to be in that relationship. And even then I could see him doing it, but the things he says to her sometimes are particularly cruel, and IDK, I guess I could buy him saying some of the things he said to her, but I feel like I often see Lilah fans like that relationship as well, and IDGI, because he went back and forth from trying to 'save' her (which she didn't need) to putting her down, and was seldom anywhere in-between. I'll have to think of a better way to formulate my thoughts on this, but I think I could have used more of a separation between 'morally gray' and 'badass,' because the one does not necessitate the other.

I enjoyed this relationship and I'm a massive Lilah fan and I really did hate Wesley whenever he put her down, but I think it made sense. Or it didn't not make sense, at least. He hated himself for it and he took it out on her because he thought he could use her as an outlet for his aggression, until he realised that he couldn't because she was a person with feelings too. And Lilah wasn't a masochist (not saying you said she was, of course) and she didn't need saving. She was using him too in the beginning, she wanted him to join the dark side good and proper, also until she realised she had real feelings for him. That's how I read their relationship. It's one of my favorite relationships on the show but certainly not because I thought they were a great match and thought they should've stayed together.

Edited January 19, 2015 by joelene

[cheezwhiz346]

I enjoyed this relationship and I'm a massive Lilah fan and I really did hate Wesley whenever he put her down, but I think it made sense. Or it didn't not make sense, at least. He hated himself for it and he took it out on her because he thought he could use her as an outlet for his aggression, until he realised that he couldn't because she was a person with feelings too. And Lilah wasn't a masochist (not saying you said she was, of course) and she didn't need saving. She was using him too in the beginning, she wanted him to join the dark side good and proper, also until she realised she had real feelings for him. 

I think I'm going to need to re-watch season 4, honestly (a lot of stuff happens in that season that, although good ideas, I find incredibly frustrating to watch, but I still definitely find it worth re-watching). There are certain memories I associate with their relationship as soon as I think of it (Wesley telling Lilah 'I wasn't thinking of you when you were here,' Lilah dressing up like a 'good girl'/studious type/Fred) and I know there was more; I think certain cruelties in that relationship are overwhelming the bigger picture for me. I think part of it also is that I never felt like Wesley's fixation on Fred was shown in a realistic light; I think the show put too positive a spin on it, like she was his light at the end of the tunnel, or something, and it creeped me out a bit.

[joelene]

I think I'm going to need to re-watch season 4, honestly (a lot of stuff happens in that season that, although good ideas, I find incredibly frustrating to watch, but I still definitely find it worth re-watching). There are certain memories I associate with their relationship as soon as I think of it (Wesley telling Lilah 'I wasn't thinking of you when you were here,' Lilah dressing up like a 'good girl'/studious type/Fred) and I know there was more; I think certain cruelties in that relationship are overwhelming the bigger picture for me.

Those moments were definitely the most memorable and what I remember most clearly too. I believe the "I wasn't thinking of you when you were here" was in Deep Down and by then they had been sleeping with each other for about three months. I don't remember Lilah's reaction but I think at that point it really stung her, as well as the audience (well, me), and it obviously led to Lilah-as-Fred because she (and we) immediately thought he then had Fred on his mind. Which, yeah, super creepy. I honestly don't remember how their encounters without seriously hurtful remarks were portrayed (if there were any, but I do think there were one or two prior to him coming to her rescue at W&H) but I think that the meanness came from both parties, only hers was more subtle because she wanted him to join W&H. If Wesley was simply a giant asshole all the time I can't believe I would've liked the storyline much at all. I'm not a shipper if any kind so it wouldn't have been because of that.

I think part of it also is that I never felt like Wesley's fixation on Fred was shown in a realistic light; I think the show put too positive a spin on it, like she was his light at the end of the tunnel, or something, and it creeped me out a bit.

I think Wesley kept holding Fred in higher regard because she was the only one that spoke to him after the baby snatching. That plus being in love with her, obviously. I think it was easy to get a little fixation on her because of that. Everyone else just spat at him. I never thought it was healthy or even positive, but I did see "realism" in it. Honestly during season four I never thought anything was supposed to be a light at the end of anyone's tunnel. They were all just seriously fucked up, which is kinda what I really liked about the season (but man did it get bleak[/i]). When season 5 finally started it was such a turn-around from the previous season and everything was so much more bright and shiny that I didn't think very much about wether Wes and Fred made sense together.

Sorry I'm rambling. I'm not even sure if I'm getting my points across. I guess one of my points is that I agree with you that Wesley's obsession was creepy for a while there but it kinda made sense and I never thought we were supposed to feel anything else. And then when they did get together they had both grown and changed so then I thought they worked.

[amensisterfriend]

I think I may actually love S2. 

 

I KNOW that I love Kate Lockley...lord knows why :) 

[Smug47]

I like Angel more than Buffy, though I didn't when I was a teenager and both shows were still airing. It holds up better over time, and I appreciate (most of) it more now.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Here's one: I love I Fall To Pieces.

 

True story - the first time I watched I Fall To Pieces, I watched it with my then-housemates, who I was trying to pull into the Jossverse. They were semi-into it, and then when it got to the part where it showed how the doctor was stalking the client, I said, "Well. I've heard of a guy that was all hands, but that's totally ridiculous." They laughed, and after that they enjoyed the show a lot more.

 

More UOs, maybe/probably. By all rights, I should probably hate the Wesley/Lilah pairing. I loathed Buffy and Spike together, and the only difference sometimes between that and Lilah and Wesley was that Wesley never hauled off and punched her in the face. But I adored them in all their fucked-up, dysfunctional glory, and I don't think he was ever fully the same after Lilah died. He loved Fred, probably, but Fred was the Ideal Girl for him, to the point that an actual relationship with her likely would never have worked.

 

Finally, I very much disliked the mind-wipe. The show had already established that in order to atone for your past, you had to put in the work and not take the easy way out when Faith was begging to die, and Angel even defied Buffy, of all people, in order to make sure that Faith lived through the night. The Council was only part of it. Buffy said she came to L.A. to protect Angel, but underneath that she wanted revenge, to pay Faith back for making her a victim, and Angel put himself between his ex-girlfriend and the Slayer who'd at least pretended to try to kill him. And tortured Wesley to up the ante so that Angel would put her out of her misery. But he couldn't bother to do the same for his own son? Do. Not. Like.

[amensisterfriend]

I strongly disliked Lorne. Well, dislike is maybe a bit much, but I thought he was such a useless character and I never understood why they kept him all those years and added him as a series regular. I also did not like his singing voice at all. Whenever he started singing, I just wished for him to shut up

 

I would normally like Lorne, as I tend to adore sunny, cheerful, high energy characters on otherwise darker shows, but I could only tolerate Lorne in really small doses. 

 

I couldn't care less about Fred/Wesley. Fred in general drives me crazy. 

 

I'm such an S1 fan that I kind of adore even the S1 episodes that everyone (quite understandably!) hates...yes, that even includes She! :) I'd even go as far as to claim that S1 of Angel is easily one of my favorite things Whedon has ever done, and maybe even currently THE favorite of all the things he's done, which given the far greater love that Firefly, most seasons of Buffy, Avengers, even Dr. Horrible etc get makes this a very unpopular opinion! 

Edited August 23, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[azshadowwalker]

In fact, I find Drucilla to be one of the all-time most annoying character on any TV show.

A 1000 times yes. Hated her on Buffy, hated her more on Angel. The writing for her is awful, the character is boring, and the actress is, well, wanting in talent. This is the character I hate more than any other in the Buffy-verse. Even more than Faith, who is a whole 'nother stereotype that makes me want to throw things.

 

I love all seasons of Angel, and will rewatch from start to finish. I don't do the same with Buffy.

 

Have to agree about Lorne. There might have been a few times I didn't hate his singing (mostly because of the scene, rather than his voice), but that nasal tone is not good. The character didn't do much for me, either. Way over used.

 

I also didn't hate Connor. I never found him whiny or any of the negative things I read. Who wouldn't be fucked up, all things considered? I hated his relationship with Cordelia, but the resulting Jasmine storyline was one of my favorites.

 

And I don't think it's a generally unpopular opinion elsewhere (which is why he ended up on Angel to begin with), but I loved the character of Spike through both shows. Not that I sympathized with him, but he was one of my favorite characters in the universe.

[amensisterfriend]

I enjoyed Darla much more than most did :) 

 

Is it unpopular to love the Pylea episodes?! Because I adore them. 

 

And is it unpopular to think that Disharmony is one of the most rewatchable episodes of the entire series?!  

 

..I think the bottom line is that I love S2 more than seems popular and a lot more than I thought I did :) 

[amensisterfriend]

---Oh, and I forgot a fairly big one: While I love Buffy and consider Buffy/Angel the first couple I ever "shipped" (and this was before we'd even heard that term!), I tended to hate when Buffy showed up on Angel and, to a lesser extent, when Angel reappeared on Buffy. 

 

--Also, I really adore Wesley in the first couple of seasons. I so prefer him as a haughty nerd than a supposedly cool, tougher 'badass.' I also really liked the chemistry between Wesley and Cordelia in those first couple of seasons...I know. I'm hopeless :) 

Edited October 16, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[EternallyCharmed]

OMG, there's a thread for my favorite show!!!! So my first unpopular opinion is that this is my favorite show, lol. I'm not really a Whedonite in that I don't care much about most other shows and movies he's done, but Angel just means so much to me. It's like how with a few very select people you just click with and automatically get and love them despite their flaws. That's me with Angel. 

 

Fred is my favorite character. I understand why some find her annoying and a Mary Sue. I would probably feel the same if she were written a little differently or played by another actress, but I love Amy Acker. To me she's a much more convincing and less annoying geek than someone like Alyson Hannigan was. And I just relate to Fred so much. The geekiness, social awkwardness, introversion, love of research and ideas, getting over fears and past traumas and forcing yourself out in the world even when it's your instinct to retreat. The sad thing is that I'm not as sweet or beautiful as Fred and barely passed my college bio class so I don't exactly qualify as a scientific genius! 

 

I love all five seasons. Every season has some problems and things I wish were different, but on balance I love them all. I find some awesome scenes in even the worst episodes that I'll rewatch. If I had to pick just one, I think I'd go with the fifth. 

 

I fell in love with the idea of a romance between Cordelia and Angel and thought they would have worked much better than Buffy and Angel did. And Fred and Wesley are together in a different dimension in my mind or even still alive. We all need a little denial while watching Whedon! 

 

So not only did I love Fred but I loved Kate and Lilah. Harmony is one reason why Season 5 might be my favorite and whenever I see that scene of her bonding with Fred in the bar in Harm's Way I find myself wanting to see more of this unlikely but sweet potential friendship. And while I have the unpopular opinion that Cordy was never a top favorite, she grew so much on this show and I came to love her too. So while there may not have been enough female characters and too many of them died, I have the unpopular opinion that this show featured Joss's best female characters as a whole. I actually only loved one of the female characters on Firefly and a few on Buffy, but that's probably off topic here. 

 

I love Angel as a character for the most part but I am the only person I know who doesn't think the actor is very attractive, especially in later seasons but even before then. There are a lot of lines about how handsome he is and how gorgeous everyone who meets him thinks he is and I'm always secretly thinking that Alexis Denisoff is way more handsome, at least to me! 

 

I may be the only person who didn't care all that much when Doyle was killed off and was very happy when Wesley arrived to take his place. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by EternallyCharmed

[jewel21]

I have always hated Fred so much. Worst character ever.

Also, I either hated, or was indifferent, to all the characters that came on board once Doyle was written off the show. Doyle remains to this day, my favourite character, and once he died I was so upset. I feel like every character they added after his death - Wesley, Fred, Gunn, Lorne, were just pale and lackluster replacements.

[slf]

I never enjoyed the nightclub/singing scenes; I've heard the actor that played Lorne was friends with the Whedons and Joss wanted to give the actor a role that spotlighted his skill....but I don't think he had much skill. And god knows no one else did.

I loved Fred. I feel like the writing never really internalized her trauma in Pylea (apologies if I didn't spell that correctly) and how dark her life was; she was affected, of course, but the show allowed her to be so only in ways that could be considered quirky and cute.

I didn't enjoy her relationship with Gunn or Wesley. She didn't much chemistry with either of them and Wesley was always obsessed with her. If I had to pick between the two I'd pair her with Gunn; they were closer in age and their relationship wasn't as cliche and Fred/Wesley was. I didn't like how they tried to make Gunn look paranoid and less intelligent just to justify breaking him and Fred up; there were more organic ways of accomplishing that.

I thought Fred and Angel were actually super cute together, platonically. He was so affectionate toward her, especially in the beginning. And I thought her harmless crush on him was sweet and understandable.

[ElleMo]

I'm rewatching now with my daughter and boy, they use the word "champion" a LOT.  But I think I have heard that complaint many times over the years, esp. back on TWOP. 

I really liked Doyle and was upset when he died.  That also brought in my least favorite subplot -- Cordelia's visions and the pain they caused her.  Then when she was able to get ride of them (give them to Gru) she didn't want to.  Ugh.

I did like the episode where she never got the visions and met one-armed Wesley and crazy Angel.  But the rest of the time when the visions were paining her, I hated it. 

I liked Wesley as the replacement, and if I couldn't have Doyle, Wesley was a good pick, though I agree with everyone who said he could have stayed a nerd and been an even more interesting character.  

But for my most unpopular, and probably obscure, opinion:  I was really annoyed that they didn't bring in Whistler.  (From BTVS Becoming Part 1 and 2)  He was such an interesting character and I felt in would have fit in great with the show. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by ElleMo

[Dee]

Unpopular Opinion: I'll always be irritated Gunn wasn't included in Cordy's hospital reunion scene in You're Welcome.

[Melancholy]

I'll give a few big ones a spin:

I think Angel is an unmitigated asshole of epic proportions, even when he has a soul firmly secured. He's sympathetic, but flawed in S1. But from the moment Darla enters into his life and he starts abandoning the tacit agreement that he forged with the humans in life that they'd upend their lives to help in exchange for his superpower efforts so he can wank more frequently, he becomes no hero to me. In all of the controversial storylines of the later seasons from his attempted murder of Wesley and expulsion of him from group, his physical and emotional abuse of Connor at the end of S3/S4, wiping everyone's memory and taking over LA W&H, leading an effort to burn the world just to take a stand, I have little sympathy for him matched against my hatred of his choices. 

I'm Team Buffy in Sanctuary. I'm Team Faith too. However, as far as I'm concerned, my sentiments there coalesced in how Faith made herself subject to the law and went to jail, just as Buffy insisted on. That was the solution. It wasn't Faith eating doughnuts and hearing Angel pontificate about his completely unrelated circumstances and how they tangentially relate to Faith while recently assaulted Wesley and Cordy squat outside of their own damn offices because the causer of their recent trauma and injuries is there. The fact that Angel abandoned mission in little more than half a season because of his Darla-backsliding just convince me further that Angel isn't nearly "cured" of a unholy terror as he thinks and it's a relief that he didn't take Faith under his wing to be an indefinite sponsor and mentor because he's incapable of it. 

I don't really mind the Gunn/Fred/Wesley/(Lilah) triangle/quadrangle. It's pretty much consistently the better acted, better written, more attractive-actor triangle compared to Angel and Cordelia having a series of triangles with Groo, Gwen, and Connor. (Note: The actress who played Gwen was gorgeous even though not much of a thespian. Vincent Kartheiser is a national treasure as far as acting- and I think that applies to his under appreciated performance as Connor as much as his lauded performance as Pete Campbell.) 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Melancholy

[azshadowwalker]

On 8/16/2016 at 0:19 PM, ElleMo said:

But for my most unpopular, and probably obscure, opinion:  I was really annoyed that they didn't bring in Whistler.  (From BTVS Becoming Part 1 and 2)  He was such an interesting character and I felt in would have fit in great with the show. 

Max Perlich is primarily a film actor. The first time I remember seeing him was as the speedfreak who shot Matt Dillon's character in Drugstore Cowboy. From what I've read, his movie schedule wouldn't work with a TV series, so Doyle was created. Joss wanted Whistler to be the sidekick. 

[festivus]

On 1/2/2017 at 10:14 AM, Melancholy said:

Vincent Kartheiser is a national treasure as far as acting- and I think that applies to his under appreciated performance as Connor as much as his lauded performance as Pete Campbell.) 

So much agreement. I felt so much for that sad, angry, tormented child. The storyline I thought I hated when it first started (I was like, a baby?! oh hell no) ended up being my favorite from the whole show. 

[Iknewyoucoulddoit]

I think my most unpopular opinion is that I absolutely love Kate Lockley! And of all the relationships Angel had or could have had, the idea of Angel/Kate appealed to me the most. 

This isn't as unpopular here as elsewhere, but the first season is my favorite. 

I remember hearing about the series and thinking Fred would be the character I really connected with. Only to me Fred is possibly the biggest Mary Sue I've ever seen on TV. She's not just very smart, but a mega super genius unlike any other. Every guy other than Angel falls for her, and it's implied in S5 that that includes Lorne. Spike likes no one affiliated with Angel Investigations except, of course, Fred. A few random Angel Investigations clients single her out as the very best. Other characters are stuck with dialogue about just how sweet, adorable, ethical, beautiful, brilliant and amazing she is. She's all "gosh golly I'm just little ole me!" humble yet flawlessly competent and "badass" whenever the occasion arises. Her one alleged flaw is that she rambles sometimes, but that's presented as quirky and precious. She even has that thing where she supposedly eats huge quantities of junk food but conveniently remains a size zero. Amy Acker's voice annoys me and, as someone else said, fairly or not contibutes to the impression of her as obnoxiously cloying and a grown woman who leans way too hard into the cute and adorable little girl thing. There is one episode where we see that Fred still has some vengeful feelings lingering from her experiences in Pylea, but even then she's mostly made to look like a powerful badass rather than problematic. I love almost everyone else, but to me Fred is tough to watch. I know that's unpopular and appreciate that we can vent here! 

The other unpopular opinion is that I love this series much more than Buffy, which I also like a lot but now to a far lesser degree.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Iknewyoucoulddoit

[festivus]

On 2/27/2017 at 10:53 AM, Iknewyoucoulddoit said:

 

I think my most unpopular opinion is that I absolutely love Kate Lockley! And of all the relationships Angel had or could have had, the idea of Angel/Kate appealed to me the most. 

This isn't as unpopular here as elsewhere, but the first season is my favorite. 

I remember hearing about the series and thinking Fred would be the character I really connected with. Only to me Fred is possibly the biggest Mary Sue I've ever seen on TV. She's not just very smart, but a mega super genius unlike any other. Every guy other than Angel falls for her, and it's implied in S5 that that includes Lorne. Spike likes no one affiliated with Angel Investigations except, of course, Fred. A few random Angel Investigations clients single her out as the very best. Other characters are stuck with dialogue about just how sweet, adorable, ethical, beautiful, brilliant and amazing she is. She's all "gosh golly I'm just little ole me!" humble yet flawlessly competent and "badass" whenever the occasion arises. Her one alleged flaw is that she rambles sometimes, but that's presented as quirky and precious. She even has that thing where she supposedly eats huge quantities of junk food but conveniently remains a size zero. Amy Acker's voice annoys me and, as someone else said, fairly or not contibutes to the impression of her as obnoxiously cloying and a grown woman who leans way too hard into the cute and adorable little girl thing. There is one episode where we see that Fred still has some vengeful feelings lingering from her experiences in Pylea, but even then she's mostly made to look like a powerful badass rather than problematic. I love almost everyone else, but to me Fred is tough to watch. I know that's unpopular and appreciate that we can vent here! 

The other unpopular opinion is that I love this series much more than Buffy, which I also like a lot but now to a far lesser degree.

 

I share all your unpopular opinions except the one about Fred, but I'm a big ol' Amy Acker stan. I think your opinion may be the popular one there though because I remember feeling quite alone with my Fred love. I do sometimes wonder if I would have liked Fred as much if she was played by a different actress. The other two baby voiced Joss characters Willow and Kaylee, I don't care for much. With Fred I always thought it kind of worked because even as smart as she was, there was some delayed development because of those five years in Pylea. 

 

One UO I remember having is that I much preferred Fred/Gunn to Fred/Wesley. I just thought Fred and Gunn made sense together.

 

I loved Kate. I can't say I really shipped her and Angel but I liked their relationship and I was sorry when she wasn't around anymore. 

[festivus]

I had so many unpopular opinions that I quit the TWoP threads way back in the day.  I felt like I was watching a different show than everyone else. 

My favorite characters are Connor and Fred.

Loved Kate.

I did not give two shits about Wesley's longing for Fred. I liked her with Gunn. I think I only cared there at the very end when he with her as she died. That was heartbreaking.

I was fine with Spike coming on the show in season five and I thought it worked. I was also fine when he became yet another male that had feelings for Fred. She was good to him when everyone else wasn't really concerned with his problems. Plus I love her so I can see why anyone else would. :)

I never cared about Buffy and Angel so I was fine with him and Cordelia developing feelings for each other. 

The Holtz storyline was my favorite. He was a villain that had a very good reason for wanting revenge on Angel. I also think that even though he took that revenge that he did love Connor. 

Saved the best for last. I think David Boreanaz is a good actor. Yeah I said it. He had chemistry with everyone that ever appeared on that show and that is a gift that few actors have. I think he came a long way from that first year on Buffy when he wasn't very good. I used to watch Bones and he never reminded me of Angel at all on that show, so yeah I think he's a good actor.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, festivus said:

Saved the best for last. I think David Boreanaz is a good actor. Yeah I said it. He had chemistry with everyone that ever appeared on that show and that is a gift that few actors have. I think he came a long way from that first year on Buffy when he wasn't very good. I used to watch Bones and he never reminded me of Angel at all on that show, so yeah I think he's a good actor.

Oh that's interesting to think this would be an unpopular opinion. I always thought David was pretty darn good in this show and figured most Angel fans thought that as well.

I did notice though that he is SO different on Bones than as Angel. I like him in both roles.

[festivus]

I just remember people on TwoP making fun of him but I did quit the threads so maybe opinion changed. Oh that also made me remember another UO, I didn't care that his Irish accent sucked. Also maybe this was just me hearing things but I thought he gave the accent to his words sometimes, kinda like it just slipped back in. So whether he really did that or I'm just crazy, I loved it anyway.

Edited April 6, 2017 by festivus

[catrox14]

Just now, festivus said:

I just remember people on TwoP making fun of him but I did quit the threads so maybe opinion changed. Oh that also made me remember another UO, I didn't care that his Irish accent sucked. Also maybe this was just me hearing things but I thought he sometimes gave the accent to his words sometimes, kinda like it just slipped back in. So whether he really did that or I'm just crazy, I loved it anyway.

I figured the Irish accent was so hilariously bad that they just went with it as a meta joke. That even David knew it was terrible. I would love to go back and listen but now that Netflix dumped Angel I can't do it readily. :(

[festivus]

Yeah, I watched it on Netflix a couple of months ago but I do have the DVD's. I like to rewatch every few years, it's one of my favorite shows. 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, festivus said:

Yeah, I watched it on Netflix a couple of months ago but I do have the DVD's. I like to rewatch every few years, it's one of my favorite shows. 

Oh it's in my Top 5 faves of all time

SPN
Angel
BSG
Breaking Bad
LOST

[ByTor]

16 hours ago, festivus said:

I was fine with Spike coming on the show in season five and I thought it worked.

I liked Spike just fine on Buffy, but I loved him on Angel.  I especially liked when he was an apparition that sometimes would fade out mid-sentence.  I thought it provided some good comic relief :)

16 hours ago, festivus said:

I just remember people on TwoP making fun of him but I did quit the threads so maybe opinion changed. Oh that also made me remember another UO, I didn't care that his Irish accent sucked.

Haha I was about to respond to your DB is a good actor comment with "I agree.  The only thing he was bad at was his Irish accent" :)  Yeah, it was pretty bad, but it never took me out of the story or had a negative impact on me.  Unpopularly, I don't really care about any accent, good or bad (hell, I even think Maggie's accent on Walking Dead is just fine, and if you read those threads, you'll know how people feel about that!).

[festivus]

6 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

My unpopular opinion is that I love Angel, but I ABSOLUTELY hate David Boreanaz. He just comes off as super-unlikeable in all of his interviews and he seems to be pretty ungrateful and not appreciative of the two shows that put him on the map. Even on EW's Reunion Special, he looks like he didn't even want to participate in the reunion, while all the other cast members (including SMG) have such fond memories and such appreciation of the Buffyverse.

I very very rarely watch actors on anything besides the shows they are acting on and I never watch them on talk shows(exception: Graham Norton). I don't want to know what actors are like in real life. I've never read an interview with DB or seen him on anything but the shows that he is on. Probably best that way. :)

 

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Haha I was about to respond to your DB is a good actor comment with "I agree.  The only thing he was bad at was his Irish accent" :)  Yeah, it was pretty bad, but it never took me out of the story or had a negative impact on me.  Unpopularly, I don't really care about any accent, good or bad (hell, I even think Maggie's accent on Walking Dead is just fine, and if you read those threads, you'll know how people feel about that!).

Yeah, in general bad accents do not bother me. Maggie's is terrible (I am Southern) but I just don't care. The only one that bothers me is Kyra Sedgwick on The Closer which I can absolutely not stand. I could never watch that show because of it although I love Major Crimes. (sorry OT)

[stillsearching74]

The more I rewatch, the more I'm reversing my original anti-Fred stance. She's really starting to grow on me. And my UO is that for me Fred/Gunn > Fred/Wesley---by a lot! 

I'm not sure how unpopular this is, but S3 is my favorite season of the series. 

I have a lot of ambivalence towards Wesley. Sometimes I find his development among the more interesting aspects of the series. Other times I can't stand him and think I'd enjoy the show more without him on it, especially post-S2 :) 

I'm so happy that people still care enough about BtVS and AtS to post about them! 

[Chaos Theory]

I really liked Kate Lockley and was sad when she was written out and never heard from again.

i enjoyed the Lilah/Wesley pairing.  I thought it was fun.  Probably the most fun Wesley was.  

I also liked Angel and Cordelia as a pairing.  

Edited May 18, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[nightwing877]

Not sure if this is unpopular, but I find season 5 overrated and it is my least favorite of Angel. I guess being the final season doesn't help, but I hated them taking over Wolfram and Heart. Miss Angel investigations, miss Cordelia and just only like a handful of episodes. Other than that it is a hit and miss for me

[nightwing877]

On 2017-5-21 at 6:28 AM, nosleepforme said:

Season Five, as I've probably mentioned 500 times in this forum, grew on me immensely over the years. 

But the two things that bugged me the most were the following:

• Taking over Wolfram and Hart made Team Angel into colleagues who worked in different divisions, which made the show lose the feeling of these characters as family of outsiders and that pretty much defined seasons 1-4.

 

• I get that the network didn't want any on-going storylines and more episodic storylines,  but I think the writers went too episodic. Buffy, in its early seasons, did a really good job of having stand alones that would still contribute significantly to larger on-going storylines, but Angel season five didn't do such a good job at mixing serial with procedural elements. Okay, there were some on-going storylines like Spike's ghost status, Shanshu, Lindsey and Eve and later Illyria and Wolfram & Hart, but it all didn't add up to such a coherent whole, even as they tried to tie everything in together with the Circle of Black Thorne at the end. A lot of episodes lack a clear direction/build-up for the season.

Exactly. I think it just sucks Angel got cancelled, I think the fact this was our last season might hold more for my dislike, had it just been a regular season, maybe It would grow on me. 

But the standalone episodes in Angel season 5 were terrible and produced some of my least liked episodes of Angel ever. Your right they didn't do a good job mixing serial with procedural elements.

Probably another unpopular opinion but I find season 1 very underrated, it is definitely one of my favorities, and in my Buffy/Angel top 5 seasons if I combined both shows seasons together to rank all 12.

[Dee]

Unpopular Opinion: I've always hated how Gunn was treated like a lesser member of the team, when the true core of Angel Investigations is/was, Angel/Cordy/Wes/Gunn imo. 

[SarahPrtr]

On 22/05/2017 at 0:58 PM, Dee said:

Unpopular Opinion: I've always hated how Gunn was treated like a lesser member of the team, when the true core of Angel Investigations is/was, Angel/Cordy/Wes/Gunn imo. 

Which is why I liked the scene in 'Players' (s4e16) when Gwen comes into AI and says "I need a guy who's suave... a guy who can handle himself in a tight spot." and Angel thinks that Gwen is talking about him, but she points at Gunn and says "I meant him."  Also, later in the episode, she tells him that he's actually brainy as well and not 'just the muscle'.  So, Gunn didn't go to college or whatever, but neither did Cordy.  I like characters who are just regular people without superpowers but know how to take care of themselves and have real street smarts.  They made some kind of comparison with Gunn and Fred, like, she's so much smarter than him, especially in Supersymmetry when he had trouble pronouncing and understanding the article she wrote.  Again, that makes him seem like some uneducated person, which is nonsense.  I know people with PhDs in physics who don't really know much about chemistry.  It's a very specific knowledge you could only know if you've studied it and if you don't understand it, doesn't mean that you're 'dumb'.  Actually, out of everyone who works with Angel, Gunn is the one I would choose to hang out with.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2014 at 11:02 PM, amensisterfriend said:

This is the place to safely confess opinions about Angel that you've found in your experience to be unpopular :) I'll get us started:

 

1) As mentioned in another thread, the first and fifth seasons were by far my favorite of the whole series

2) At this stage of my life, I'm more attached to the first and last season of Angel than any season of Buffy and am much more likely to rewatch them

3) Doyle was easily one of my favorite characters, and I actually found myself semi-shipping Doyle/Cordelia

4) I really liked Kate and actually liked the actress in this role despite hating her on Law & Order

5) I hated Faith on Buffy but really liked her appearances in S1 of Angel.

6) I could have very happily done without seeing Darla again

7) Harmony popping up in S5 delighted me to no end :)  

1. Personally I think 4 is the best, the one season where Angel eclipses Buffy.

3. Doyle could have been a great character but never really had the time to develop. 

4. Loved Kate, ER is great but her L&O character was written SO boringly!

5. Faith's appearance on Angel are my favourite eps on the show

6. Darla was terrific although she died so many times it bordered on parody. 

7. Loved Harmony, she was a ray of sunshine in an increasingly dour show and a female presence in the overwhelmingly male AI

On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2014 at 11:42 PM, Kalliste said:

All of the above :) Although I could have lived without Kate.

 

Seasons 1 and 5 are definitely the best! I have to say I don't particularly like season  2 - 4, mostly because of Connor, but I like seasons 1 and 5 so much that I like Angel as a show more than I like Buffy.

 

So yes, I very  much agree with #2 :)

If I had to choose I would stick to purely Buffy, not least because we have additional seasons. Had Angel gone onto its' 6th season that might have been different 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎28‎/‎12‎/‎2014 at 3:22 AM, catrox14 said:

My unpopular opinions are

Season rankings 5,4,3,2,1

I liked Connor and I think he got a bad rap.

I was not much of a Cordelia fan.

I 'liked' Lindsey.

Whilst I liked 5 I'm surprised anyone rates it as their favourite, unless you're a huge Spike fan? 

Connor was just unlikeable, not the fault of the actor but just the way the character was written. When he returns in s5 then he's likeable. Lindsey is very popular, he's interesting because he's an amoral character who might go good or evil and right to the end you're never sure which way he'll turn.

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Season 4 is also my favorite, I think they're doing great things with the arc, the Beast, the blocking out of the sun, the Faith stuff, Jasmine. Season 4 has a lot of forward momentum that Buffy didn't have at that time, when it needed it due to it being the final season. Ironically, I think Angel was at its most inventive in both season four and season five - which does usually not happen with long running shows. Only thing I hate about season four is how they developed Cordelia, even if it wasn't herself, that storyline was just not successful and sucked life out of it, also Connor's conflict with Angel would become repetitive and annoying. The rest however was so so so good.

 

I think Harmony added tremendously to the final season. Wish they would have had another chance to pair her up with Cordelia though.

 

I think season 5 has more humor and the stand-alones are more inventive than the ones in the early seasons - those are reasons to rate S5 as the best season. I think the arc would have needed to be handled better for it to raise above season 4. 

 

Unpopular opinion: I could never stand Lindsey, I was super-happy when he disappeared after the second season and Lilah got a bigger part out of it. His return was not needed in S5 at all and poorly done, though I did like his appearances in the final five episodes and to have him killed by Lorne was inspired.

Yeah, some more interaction would have been nice. I liked CC in s4, it certainly was a shocker when she turned out to be the big bad. Hard to judge s5 as it was cut so short from the intended storyline, it took its' time to find its' feet. I loved the return of Lindsey, brought it all full circle. 

On ‎28‎/‎12‎/‎2014 at 3:45 AM, amensisterfriend said:

kalliste and catrox, thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in my love for season five :-)

I enjoyed Lindsey as well!

I liked Cordelia far more in the first season when she was still very Cordelia-esque, just a slightly more mature, likable and vulnerable version than we saw for most of BtVS. I feel like their attempts to have her evolve resulted in her growing right out of the traits that made her entertaining and interesting in the first place.

And I hate any and all hints of romantic feelings between Cordy and Angel, but I've convinced myself that's not too unpopular :)

It was a narrow line, we didn't want to lose whip-smart Sunnydale CC but we loved to see how she had grown as a person.  

On ‎29‎/‎12‎/‎2014 at 5:40 PM, ByTor said:

To add to unpopularity...

4) I liked the Kate actress when she was on Law & Order!

6) I would have been happy to never see Darla or Drucilla again!  In fact, I find Drucilla to be one of the all-time most annoying character on any TV show.

I like Elizabeth Rhom, especially in American Hustle but her ADA in L&O is just so boring! I think they made her gay just to try to give her a new level.