S10.E09: The Things We Left Behind

[Tara Ariano]

Castiel finds Jimmy's daughter Claire in a group home and she convinces him to break her out. After she runs away from him, Castiel calls Sam and Dean to help find her before she gets into trouble. Meanwhile, Crowley faces his biggest challenge.

[catrox14]

Gah...Is it Tuesday yet?  I am soooo ready for this episode

[omelas]

Who's writing the Dean at CBGB's fan fic?

[Tippi Blevins]

If they're going to go the "oh noes, Dean is killing humans!" route, I wish they'd go ahead and make it genuinely, unambiguously dark. Like, kill some hapless librarians or whatever. But killing a bunch of imminent rapists and a guy who sold a teen girl? And trying to make it all "tell me you had to do this!!!"? Eh. The dudes attacked Dean on top of their aforementioned crimes. I feel like the show is pulling its punches.

[kimrey]

If I was a huge Cas fan I probs would have loved this episode.  But I guess I really just don't care about Claire, so...

 

More Sam and Dean please!  But the ending was good.  Nice little cliff hanger.  It's going to be a long hiatus!

 

Loved Dean's story.  I remember at a recent con Jared and Jensen talked briefly about not liking that scene, but I really did.  I still love hearing any stories about their childhood.  I also love that Sam knew the story as well as Dean did and he wasn't even there.  Brothers :)

Edited December 10, 2014 by kimrey

[Mcolleague]

Unsurprisingly, the promo baited with MoC!Dean scenes, and it got about 2 minutes of actual screentime. Unimpressed. 

[Phebemarie]

So will Castiel resurrect the bad guys so Dean doesn't feel like a monster?  

[catrox14]

I'm disappointed.  I'm really upset about the preview though.  I'm sorry but the actress playing Claire was terrible.  The first Claire was just incredible. This one was just one note with no nuance.  What happened to them being able to cast decent teen actors?

 

Can someone explain to me why Sam would be questioning whether Dean HAD TO DO IT...that it was kill or be killed? I suspect that the guy that kicked Dean in the head probably killed Dean which of course the Mark won't allow.  Why is Dean killing a bunch of human rapists the worst thing that Sam would be questioning him about?  Maybe I missed something important that I'll see upon rewatch. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by catrox14

[2Old2BAFangirl]

I always love seeing Dean - so there's that - but I was a little bored this episode.  It was fine, I guess, but not midseason finale material to me.

 

I will say I am SO glad that they finally had Cas say aloud what I've believed all along.  Jimmy Novak is dead, he's been dead, and he's gone.  I'm hoping that ends the questions and comments regarding whether Jimmy Novak is still along for the ride, if it's Jimmy that wants a cheeseburger, or any other Jimmy Novak related remark.

 

They also cleared up where Crowley is as well.  He's not actually in Hell - for some reason, he's hanging out in an abandoned warehouse kind of building here on earth.  That ends the speculation about what the hell happened to Hell, at least it does for me.

 

I admit that I don't really care about Claire - maybe that's why I found the episode slow.  I also miss Crowley doing something besides talking, talking, talking.  Rowena seemed like she would be fun but tonight I just found both of them meh.   Dean's story about John was fine too.  I guess I don't usually describe an episode of Supernatural as "fine".  Two minutes of action at the end didn't cut it for me.  The promo for the Jan 20th episode was more interesting than the whole of tonight's episode to me. 

 

Maybe it will be better on rewatch.

[kimrey]

Can someone explain to me why Sam would be questioning whether Dean HAD TO DO IT...that it was kill or be killed? I suspect that the guy that kicked Dean in the head probably killed Dean which of course the Mark won't allow.  Why is Dean killing a bunch of human rapists the worst thing that Sam would be questioning him about?  Maybe I missed something important that I'll see upon rewatch. 

 

Maybe because of the overkill?  I guess running into a room and finding like 5 people dead, like really really dead and bloody with your brother kneeling there with a knife is a pretty crazy image and one that would have him concerned, no matter who the people were.

 

Plus, they were bad dudes, but I don't think Sam and Dean knew just HOW bad.  Cas was the only one who saw that guy in the room with Claire.  I'm not sure if Sam and Dean had enough information at that point to know that that guy was trying to rape her and everyone else in the room agreed to it.  

 

Either way, yeah.  It would have had more of an effect if these guys weren't so terrible already.  

[Jediknight]

So Dean is attacked, and is about to be killed by a group of rapists, and someone else who was willing to sell a girl into rape, and we're supposed to feel bad for them?  They were going to kill Dean, the way I see it it's defense.

 

Smart move by Cas and Sam there, leave Dean alone in the house with that group.

[catrox14]

Seriously, why did the leave Dean alone if they were so worried that he was going to do something.

 

At least as demon!Dean had power.  I feel like this is turning Dean into nothing but a murdering murderer who murders regardless of who he murders.  I mean it's like he made a better choice killing Lester as a demon than slaughtering these sex traffickers...if I understand the shows message tonight.

 

Gods I'm in a foul mood about this episode.

[kimrey]

Smart move by Cas and Sam there, leave Dean alone in the house with that group.

 

 

This was pretty lazy writing. 

 

What should have happened is that when that door slammed behind Sam they should have gone to commercial break with Sam turning around immediately and trying to get back in the house.  Come back from commercial with Sam pounding on door, trying to kick it in.  He finally gets into the house and sees that scene.

 

Instead both Sam and Cas don't even seem to care that the door slammed behind them and Dean was still in the house alone with all of those guys.  They just sit in the car and wait.  I mean, it didn't make sense.

[catrox14]

It's weird because Guy Bee has directed some of the best episodes of the show.  So I don't understand why they cut the end the way they did.  It was 3 minutes of ads and then 30 seconds for the final critical scene? I do not understand.

[oliverwendell]

 

What happened to them being able to cast decent teen actors?

 

I thought the main girl in "Fan Fiction" was really great.  I wouldn't mind if she turned up again.  It also made me thing that Krissy might have been a much more interesting character if that actress had played her.  Casting matters, people!

[catrox14]

 I agree that the girls in Fan Fiction were generally really good. I even commented on that in that thread. That's probably why I'm so taken aback at how bad I thought she was. 

[7kstar]

On a superficial note, I love Dean in the Blue and purple plaid shirt.

 

Not sure why Dean was laughing so hard at the 3 Stooges and makes me wonder if that means something?

 

Mom and Crowley = snore.  Not interesting at all and I can't believe he was so stupid to fall for her lies.  But I don't really care anyway...if they don't do something better, kill them off.

 

I liked the scene in the dinner with Cas and Dean.  I loved the father story, nice to hear a nice moment with John for a change.

 

Cas and Claire...mixed it just wasn't tight. a few good moments but otherwise a bit long.

 

At least Sam didn't jump to Dean you're a monster.  But wondering if the psychic dream means something more.  Do I care who he killed nope and I hope it doesn't turn into another Amy storyline.  We knew the MoC storyline wasn't over but not really sure what they want me to feel on this one, it's messy.  Can't love it but not totally the worst ever either....

[catrox14]

Blue is my favorite color on Dean.  And yes agreed on that look. 

[7kstar]

It's weird because Guy Bee has directed some of the best episodes of the show.  So I don't understand why they cut the end the way they did.  It was 3 minutes of ads and then 30 seconds for the final critical scene? I do not understand.

This is the part that needed to be expanded and some other parts would have been strong if shortened.

 

 I agree that the girls in Fan Fiction were generally really good. I even commented on that in that thread. That's probably why I'm so taken aback at how bad I thought she was. 

This is the problem with supernatural, sometimes they cast some amazing actors and hardly use them and then cast someone down right bad and give them a huge part.  I agree with some of the girls in fanfiction were really good, but this one was acting with her head and not her instinct or soul.

[7kstar]

 

Loved Dean's story.  I remember at a recent con Jared and Jensen talked briefly about not liking that scene, but I really did.  I still love hearing any stories about their childhood.  I also love that Sam knew the story as well as Dean did and he wasn't even there.  Brothers :)

 Loved the story too, what con?

[catrox14]

I'm sorry but I call shenanigans on the John story.  Dean saying Dad wasn't great but damn if he wasn't always there for us...

 

UMMMM WAT?  Dean had to beg his dad to call him back in s1 when Sammy was all YED kid.  He was not always there for you Dean :(....

 

Ugh. I really hate the scene. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by catrox14

[Ferniesfreckles]

So..... that was 50 minutes of blah, and 2 minutes of, "oh, God, what did you do Dean?"

Those men totally deserved to be killed so he didn't do anything wrong in my book.

That Braveheart! line was funny. Even funnier that Rowena knew where that was from. "Freeeeedommm!

Did Dean punch Charlie? That's what that looked like in the preview.

[Frost]

I can see Castiel hustling Claire out of the house because he wanted her safe, but why on earth did Sam leave and not notice Dean wasn't right behind him? Sam was way too casual about leaving Dean to handle an entire gang all by himself. It isn't like Castiel needed help protecting Claire. Bad staging. I usually find MOC!Dean scary as hell but his line about 'you don't want to do this' was too close to what David Banner used to say before turning into The Hulk so it actually made me laugh. Probably not the reaction they were going for.

I agree having Dean kill a bunch of rapists and reprobates who were going to kill him doesn't rank high enough on the "OMG!" scale for all of the hand wringing that will ensue. I would like to see Dean on the run from a Castiel who sorrowfully feels he needs to kill Dean to fulfill his promise though. That could be a entertaining couple of episodes.

The actress playing Claire was not good. I just rolled my eyes at her whiny teenager self absorption instead of feeling her pain. Having her angry, not only at her mother for abandoning her, but at God himself for stealing her dad away to host an angel and taking her grandmother, the only family she had left, could have been powerful stuff. Neither the writing nor the acting was up to carrying this storyline.

[kimrey]

 Loved the story too, what con?

 

It was a pretty recent one.  They were filming this episode when they were there.  I'll try to find the video.  I just remember them talking about scenes they had a hard time with or something and Jared was like, "we did one of those just the other day" and Jensen asked him which scene he was talking about and Jared was like, "with the story!" and Jensen like rolled his eyes and agreed.

 

I'll look on youtube!

[7kstar]

I'm sorry but I call shenanigans on the John story.  Dean saying Dad wasn't great but damn if he wasn't always there for us...

 

UMMMM WAT?  Dean had to beg his dad to call him back in s1 when Sammy was all YED kid.  He was not always there for you Dean :(....

 

Ugh. I really hate the scene. 

I think Dean stated he wasn't Father of the year and nor do I think it showed that he thought his Dad was perfect, but just that when he was growing up, he felt he did look out for him.  For me John goes of the deep end once he find the trail of the YED once again.  That's when things really went south for Dean.  So that is why I don't mind the story.  I don't see it as a cure for dear old Dad and he's an angel, but with his warts and all, he loved us the best he could.  And even Sam says in Season 1, they could have had it so much worse.

[rue721]

Can someone explain to me why Sam would be questioning whether Dean HAD TO DO IT...that it was kill or be killed? I suspect that the guy that kicked Dean in the head probably killed Dean which of course the Mark won't allow.  Why is Dean killing a bunch of human rapists the worst thing that Sam would be questioning him about?  Maybe I missed something important that I'll see upon rewatch. 

 

Sam was asking if it was self-defense, I think. It matters to him because as bad as the guys were, they were human, so if Dean killed them and it wasn't self-defense, then it was murder. That scene was pretty weak, though. First off, because how they built up to it, it seemed like it maybe *was* self-defense. I mean, they kicked him in the head and were circling him, and all had weapons afaik. Plus, when they came into the house, Clair was upstairs screaming her lungs out, so personally, I was not really rooting for tons of ~mercy~ anyway. So Sam's concern seemed weird to me. What did he expect to walk in on, tbh?

 

The actual demons back in "Girls Girls Girls" were doing basically the same stuff these human men were doing. If anything, the demons were marginally better because Clair is a child ffs. So if we've had years of the show telling us that we shouldn't feel bad when the human vessels of demons doing bad shit get stabbed to death, etc, then I don't know how upset I'm supposed to be by humans-doing-demonic-stuff getting stabbed to death, too? Obviously irl I don't want *anyone* getting murdered and wouldn't be so blasé, but within the world of the show, I don't even think this is the worst thing Dean has done on-camera (see:  killing humans just because they're possessed and the demons possessing them are doing the things that these actual humans were doing) and is a pretty light grey generally. 

 

Anyway, I love the idea that the kick to the head killed Dean and he's dead right now, somehow still in his body and struggling not to go black-eyes. That would make his flashbacks more interesting imo. If he *were* dead, could he stave off becoming a demon by continually injecting purified human blood?

 

They also cleared up where Crowley is as well.  He's not actually in Hell - for some reason, he's hanging out in an abandoned warehouse kind of building here on earth.  That ends the speculation about what the hell happened to Hell, at least it does for me.

 

I was really glad for this explanation, because his "Hell" looked so low rent. Though why he's in a warehouse, I still don't know. Why not somewhere more comfortable? The most terrifying "villain's lair" I've ever seen on TV is from Prime Suspect years and years ago, where this guy who killed people with dogs hung out at this abandoned pool. He would put the dogs and his victim in the pool so he could watch them be slaughtered. It was like a low-rent Colosseum. I couldn't even watch that whole episode/series, it gave me chills to see that. If they were going to go "low rent" for Crowley's Earth HQ, couldn't they make it at least marginally more frightening and more practical, like that?

 

Not sure why Dean was laughing so hard at the 3 Stooges and makes me wonder if that means something?

 

I think the point was to make it seem like he was his old self. Hanging out laughing at some dumb slapstick, eating all the time and loving the food, telling a story about their dad, etc. It didn't really deliver imo, but I think the intention was to lull us into thinking he's "better" so that it would be more shocking that, at the end, he goes berserk and kills those guys.

 

Mom and Crowley = snore.  Not interesting at all and I can't believe he was so stupid to fall for her lies.  But I don't really care anyway...if they don't do something better, kill them off.

 

I actually thought this was the strongest part of the episode. Not that that's saying much, but meh. And I don't generally care about Crowley, albeit I'm happy to finally see a mother who's not either missing/dead or sanctified (or both) as a character on this show. There's been so much about fathers and even grandfathers ffs, it gets a little stale after a while so at least it's a *slight* change of pace.

 

Anyway, Rowena did actually play Crowley well in the throne room, I thought. There was a point during that conversation when I laughed and was like, OK, she's got him. (Can't find the clip online right now, but once I find it, I'll go back and see what it was she said so this isn't so completely vague). The parts of the episode when Crowley was working himself up trying to remind himself why he hates her were boring in and of themselves, but I thought they actually set things up pretty well. Both for him letting her back into the fold (because he wouldn't have had to repeat all the ways he hated her if he didn't want her back, albeit was afraid he couldn't trust her) and also because I thought the scenes as a whole delivered pretty well/packed somewhat of a punch when she said "back in a flash" to her cellmate at the end and you knew she was just a straight up sociopath, lol.

 

It's weird because Guy Bee has directed some of the best episodes of the show.  So I don't understand why they cut the end the way they did.  It was 3 minutes of ads and then 30 seconds for the final critical scene? I do not understand.

 

I think that would have been in the script, rather than up to the director's discretion. Act breaks are written in the script as a rule, and any time the show goes into a commercial, it's an act break. Why the writers chose to write the script that way and that's what the show decided to air, I can't tell you. The whole script was kind of...Idk, not sloppy imo but not tight at all. Really draggy and aimless somehow. It also just didn't feel like SPN for some reason. Maybe all the focus on Clair? But also the pacing. Idk, just didn't work for me, I guess.

[catrox14]

think the point was to make it seem like he was his old self. Hanging out laughing at some dumb slapstick, eating all the time and loving the food, telling a story about their dad, etc. It didn't really deliver imo, but I think the intention was to lull us into thinking he's "better" so that it would be more shocking that, at the end, he goes berserk and kills those guys.

 

Dean laughing at the 3 stooges seemed odd to me. That humor doesn't seem like something Dean would watch. And seriously, though, why isn't Dean watching porn? I would have totally bought in if Dean was watching Casa Erotica version of the 3 Stooges.  And Dean eats but I don't he's ever eaten as much as he did here or in as manic of a way.  I thought there was something off about Dean throughout. He was laughing a little too hard and eating a little too much which was just exactly the opposite of what the Mark was doing to him last season.  He didn't eat and he didn't laugh so why is that opposite now?

[SueB]

The hand wringing is not that Dean killed bad guys. The hand wringing is that Dean went out of control.  "Yes." Okay fine. "I didn't mean to." Yikes.  It's not that he just killed them, in about 60 seconds he had a blood bath going.  These were not efficient must-be-done kills.  This was Dean totally embracing the violence in a "I like the disease" fashion.

 

The MINUTE he snarfed into that cheese sandwich and was laughing too hard at the Three Stooges I knew it was trouble. I thought Jensen played it with just the right subtlety. It was almost a caricature of his former self. Then he continues to chow down on two cheeseburgers and a hot dog.  This is the same guy who has barely been shown to eat for the first 8 episodes. And now he's kinda stuffing himself.  Dean was slipping out of control the entire episode.  He does a good job of 'faking it' but I felt he was trying too hard to be the old Dean the whole time and it wasn't working. And Sam was lost in the sentimentality of the story they told. But Dean was a powder keg the entire episode IMO.

 

The line that ripped out my heart and shred it to pieces: "With everything I had."  As if I didn't already have enough feels over Dean and his Daddy issues. He just blurts it out right there.  This (and the way he was so open with Cas) were actually signs of him just letting his feelings rip. 

 

I'm also really glad they permanently cleaned up "What happened to Jimmy." I liked Claire's story and what a HUGE mess Cas (and the boys created) with the Apocalypse.  And I like that she blamed Sam & Dean too.  They DID put stopping the Apocalypse over saving people. They didn't have any choice. But the damage was still done and for Claire, her life pretty much sucked.  When she said "it got pretty bad", I'm fairly certain that she experienced a lot worse than what we saw.  She's earned the right to bitter.  And now add witnessing Dean in blood-bath mode.  Yes! Let's all ride in the car together now.  I hope Cas knocked her out so she was not freaking.

 

Well....I'll say that I loved the episode.  It had a great many layers. I'm off to rewatch and engage in the West Coast tweeting.

[cassandle]

I think it was a mistake to tout this episode and make it such a big deal that it was a mid-season finale.  Which, is that a new thing?  Are we supposed to care about the mid-season?  Anyhoo, it made my expectations way too high for what turned out to be a pretty mediocre episode.  And the promo-monkeys didn't help matters at all.  Was Claire even in the promos? I was not expecting her nor did I care about her story.

 

That being said, it was nice to see Dean laugh and scarf down food and it was nice to see them with Castiel again.  And I agree with everyone else that killing a room full of murderous bad guys wasn't a big enough of a deal.  They might not have been demonic but they were still pretty evil so…good for Dean!

 

On another note, I doubt it was intentional but the little Days of Our Lives reunion made me laugh.  Mike Horton and Eric Brady in the same room again.

[Pete Martell]

If they're going to go the "oh noes, Dean is killing humans!" route, I wish they'd go ahead and make it genuinely, unambiguously dark. Like, kill some hapless librarians or whatever. But killing a bunch of imminent rapists and a guy who sold a teen girl? And trying to make it all "tell me you had to do this!!!"? Eh. The dudes attacked Dean on top of their aforementioned crimes. I feel like the show is pulling its punches.

 

If he killed a bunch of innocent people, the character would be destroyed.

 

Edgy, shock value writing is what Kripke loved, and he eviscerated Sam's character as a result. Sam still hasn't fully recovered, likely never will.

 

I do think the show has bungled parts of this story (especially some of the pacing this season), but I'm very glad they've never had Dean go that far.

[rue721]

I think Dean stated he wasn't Father of the year and nor do I think it showed that he thought his Dad was perfect, but just that when he was growing up, he felt he did look out for him.  For me John goes of the deep end once he find the trail of the YED once again.  That's when things really went south for Dean.  So that is why I don't mind the story.  I don't see it as a cure for dear old Dad and he's an angel, but with his warts and all, he loved us the best he could.  And even Sam says in Season 1, they could have had it so much worse.

 

Yeah, I liked that scene so-so. What I personally didn't like about that story was that it was kind of stale/corny, and implausible (though not impossible, I guess) for these particular characters. AND that they didn't toast John at the end. DUDE. I guess John didn't raise them right after all, because everyone knows that if you tell a story like that, you're supposed to at least raise your glass to the person you just waxed poetic about and not just randomly drink your little shots or whatever all by yourself. What was silly was that the camera even showed them all drinking their separate drinks at slightly different times afterward, so the shot/scene would even have made more sense if they'd toasted, too. Anyway, not to be petty, I just thought that was funny/weird.

 

While I'm on the subject of petty things, though, something else very minor that I disliked was, if Dean was drunk off his ass from some women trying to get him plastered at the club, and John was so commanding at the time that even some other man at the club called him "sir," I call complete bullshit on Dean being all "I hate you! [door slam]" once they got back to their room or in the car. Even if it sounded like he was too vomit-y to be doing something like that at the time, it's still kind of "eh, reallllllly?" imo because is he Dawn Summers now? Or a spoiled brat in general?

 

But I think that the story in general was told/set up the way it was because it was supposed to be a parallel for Clair needing a rescue from all these leches that Randy was selling her to. It was supposed to motivate Cas to go after her and rescue her despite herself. That's why I think that's why they made a point about Dean sneaking away from John (and Sam), for being far underage at the time, these women specifically trying to get him plastered and him alluding to the drinks being too strong/messed with (like they were being predatory), how even though at the time he hated John for it, he now looks at John as having "been there for him" by "rescuing" him (after Clair had told Cas that the way to her heart, judging by Randy's path there, was by being there for her). All that was pretty directly paralleled by Clair's situation.

 

Anyway, the story felt pretty reheated to me, it didn't really sound like something these specific characters would have as a go-to story, etc, so I didn't love it. BUT I was happy that they chose to tell a story that was all about John being Mr. Dad, instead of going more/too maudlin.

[Pete Martell]

I think it was a mistake to tout this episode and make it such a big deal that it was a mid-season finale.  Which, is that a new thing?  Are we supposed to care about the mid-season?  Anyhoo, it made my expectations way too high for what turned out to be a pretty mediocre episode.  And the promo-monkeys didn't help matters at all.  Was Claire even in the promos? I was not expecting her nor did I care about her story.

 

Midseason finales seem to be a big deal in the last few years. I think last season was one of the first times I remember it being a big deal for SPN...in previous years it was more low-key, overall.

While I'm on the subject of petty things, though, something else very minor that I disliked was, if Dean was drunk off his ass from some women trying to get him plastered at the club, and John was so commanding at the time that even some other man at the club called him "sir," I call complete bullshit on Dean being all "I hate you! [door slam]" once they got back to their room or in the car. Even if it sounded like he was too vomit-y to be doing something like that at the time, it's still kind of "eh, reallllllly?" imo because is he Dawn Summers now? Or a spoiled brat in general?

 

I assumed that he was drugged, likely out of it, and either yelled at John when John was pulling him out of the place, or when they got back and John was shaming him.

 

I didn't see it as Dean being a spoiled brat. I mostly saw it as a kid who wanted to be on his own for once in his life, it ended badly, he felt like an idiot, and he lashed out at his father in a way he was usually terrified to do.

Dean laughing at the 3 stooges seemed odd to me. That humor doesn't seem like something Dean would watch. And seriously, though, why isn't Dean watching porn? I would have totally bought in if Dean was watching Casa Erotica version of the 3 Stooges.  And Dean eats but I don't he's ever eaten as much as he did here or in as manic of a way.  I thought there was something off about Dean throughout. He was laughing a little too hard and eating a little too much which was just exactly the opposite of what the Mark was doing to him last season.  He didn't eat and he didn't laugh so why is that opposite now?

 

He was trying to convince himself he was fine. Everything was OTT as a result.

 

Dean grew up in motel rooms that probably showed 3 Stooges reruns on TBS and other stations all the time. He hasn't been as fond of the silly stuff in recent years, but I can see him going back to it like a crutch. I was kind of glad they didn't have more of the same porn jokes for once. 

[catrox14]

To me nothing Dean did was a joke though. I don't think him watching porn would have been a joke, but would have been typical Dean coping behaviors vs watching 3 stooges.  Like I could see him watching sitcoms from the 80s or old Westerns but the 3 stooges just gave me the 'ruhhhrrrr'.  And I mean seriously in the 10 years we've seen Dean he has never laughed that much.

 

He laughed when he and Cas got kicked out of the brothel. He laughed when Sam was glitterized by the evil clowns.  When else has Dean really truly laughed. That freaked me out more than anything.  EEP!

[Pete Martell]

The hand wringing is not that Dean killed bad guys. The hand wringing is that Dean went out of control.  "Yes." Okay fine. "I didn't mean to." Yikes.  It's not that he just killed them, in about 60 seconds he had a blood bath going.  These were not efficient must-be-done kills.  This was Dean totally embracing the violence in a "I like the disease" fashion.

 

Yeah, I don't think Sam is upset that Dean went around killing rapists and rape enablers. It's more that he knows a part of Dean is a killing machine, and once that's uncorked, it's going to be very hard to put back in the bottle.

[SueB]

Yeah, the laugh was freaky.

And I think he was watching the Three Stooges because they are a standard "go to" for stupid laughes.  Mindless humor.  But Sam wasn't buying it either IMO.

[Pete Martell]

To me nothing Dean did was a joke though. I don't think him watching porn would have been a joke, but would have been typical Dean coping behaviors vs watching 3 stooges.  Like I could see him watching sitcoms from the 80s or old Westerns but the 3 stooges just gave me the 'ruhhhrrrr'.  And I mean seriously in the 10 years we've seen Dean he has never laughed that much.

 

He laughed when he and Cas got kicked out of the brothel. He laughed when Sam was glitterized by the evil clowns.  When else has Dean really truly laughed. That freaked me out more than anything.  EEP!

 

I think that was part of the attempt to show that Dean wasn't being his true self. He was diving headlong into a caricature of himself so he wouldn't have to deal with what he was. 

 

I also feel like that whole scene was a reminder of the child Dean never got to be. The whole thing with the 3 Stooges, the OTT eating, was what a kid does.

[DittyDotDot]

What episode was it in S8 where Sam and Dean were arguing about The Three Stooges--was that at the beginning of Man's Best Friends With Benefits or another one? I'm just wondering if it's the same writer. Maybe someone on staff really likes them?

[Pete Martell]

That was Bruckner and Ross-Leming. This was Andrew Dabb.

[SueB]

I refer to that episode as "the episode which must not be named"  Oh, the horrors!

[DittyDotDot]

So it was Man's Best Friends With Benefits? I know who wrote the different episodes, I was trying to suss out which one had The Three Stooges discussion in it previously.

[rue721]

He was laughing a little too hard and eating a little too much which was just exactly the opposite of what the Mark was doing to him last season.  He didn't eat and he didn't laugh so why is that opposite now?

 

Yeah, exactly, he was trying really hard to be his old self and not hitting it quite right. I think it's like at the end of last week's episode, when he tried to tell Sam that he felt like himself, and Sam gave him that dubious look. Sam kept giving him that dubious look all through this episode whenever he'd go on about the food, etc. He even looked down at the mark and the show highlighted it with CGI or something when he saw how manic Dean was about the 3 Stooges and the grilled cheese. BUT I think it was also supposed to be a hopeful question, like, "maybe he IS becoming more himself?!" And then the answer at the end of the episode was a resounding "no."

 

I'm hoping that it was some kind of demon long-con, but Dean's shell-shocked look at the end of this episode and his refusal to even tell Sam it was self defense makes me think that's not the case, he's just out of control and can't get back to himself even though he's trying.

 

I think it was a mistake to tout this episode and make it such a big deal that it was a mid-season finale.  Which, is that a new thing?  Are we supposed to care about the mid-season?  Anyhoo, it made my expectations way too high for what turned out to be a pretty mediocre episode.  And the promo-monkeys didn't help matters at all.  Was Claire even in the promos? I was not expecting her nor did I care about her story.

 

TA, this episode didn't feel climactic at all and I think the only reason it got touted as a Mid!Season!Finale! is because all the other shows do real mid-season finales now. And I also couldn't care less about Claire. Sorry. I mean, her life sucks but isn't that kind of her mother's problem? Isn't the next step figuring out what's going on there?

 

Considering what the Novaks seemed to be like previously it seems like a pretty big change for Claire's mom to dump her on an elderly woman (who lived for what, like a year? the mom has only been gone three years, iIrc?) and then into foster care, so it seemed weird that they just waived off her total abandonment of her daughter like that wasn't weird/questionable. Maybe I'm misremembering how the Novaks were before, though. God forbid this becomes some big arc about Castiel becoming the father he never had or something, though. Claire's hopefully/probably just an excuse to write Cas off the show rather than the center for a big and enormously dull SL, I think?

 

LOL though, if they were to dump Claire on Jodi I will laugh my ass off. Maybe every time they come across a poorly parented kid, they'll try to ship her off to Jodi. That would be horrifying, but I guess this *is* a horror show.

[rue721]

I assumed that he was drugged, likely out of it, and either yelled at John when John was pulling him out of the place, or when they got back and John was shaming him.

 

I didn't see it as Dean being a spoiled brat. I mostly saw it as a kid who wanted to be on his own for once in his life, it ended badly, he felt like an idiot, and he lashed out at his father in a way he was usually terrified to do.

 

Probably what they were going for. On TV it's such a trope that teens/kids yell at their parents that way and it's no big deal, so I mostly just roll with it. It's especially hard for me to swallow with these characters and in that situation, though. In reality, I'd think he'd be about to piss his pants after John *tracked him down* to pull him out of the club, especially since when John came into CBGB (ffs!), the look on his face had everyone saying, "yessir, yessir" and getting out of his way. But the writers had to make it similar to Claire's story, I think, and she'd just told Castiel that she hated him even though they all knew she needed rescuing, so that's what they had Dean-in-the-story do, too.

 

Tbh, I wish it had been that he was trying to play it cool and like he wasn't drunk so that John would be at least slightly less pissed off, but then he threw up all over the car on the way home.

Edited December 10, 2014 by rue721

[7kstar]

 

But I think that the story in general was told/set up the way it was because it was supposed to be a parallel for Clair needing a rescue from all these leches that Randy was selling her to. It was supposed to motivate Cas to go after her and rescue her despite herself. That's why I think that's why they made a point about Dean sneaking away from John (and Sam), for being far underage at the time, these women specifically trying to get him plastered and him alluding to the drinks being too strong/messed with (like they were being predatory), how even though at the time he hated John for it, he now looks at John as having "been there for him" by "rescuing" him (after Clair had told Cas that the way to her heart, judging by Randy's path there, was by being there for her). All that was pretty directly paralleled by Clair's situation.

 

Anyway, the story felt pretty reheated to me, it didn't really sound like something these specific characters would have as a go-to story, etc, so I didn't love it. BUT I was happy that they chose to tell a story that was all about John being Mr. Dad, instead of going more/too maudlin.

I guess my positive to it is because for once they show John in a better light and I'm so sick of mean, cruel John.  I hated when they started that story line.  I also agree it was for Cas's storyline to make better sense.  Was it the perfect story, no, but I do wish they would show John in a more positive light, because otherwise I can't buy that Dean would be all teary eyed and know how much he loves John, if he really thought he was the big meanie and abusive father.

 

Tbh, I wish it had been that he was trying to play it cool and like he wasn't drunk so that John would be at least slightly less pissed off, but then he threw up all over the car on the way home.

That would have worked better, I think what really makes the story bad is the I hate you, but kids do sometimes say that for the stupid of reasons.

Edited December 10, 2014 by 7kstar

[Pete Martell]

Probably what they were going for. On TV it's such a trope that teens/kids yell at their parents that way and it's no big deal, so I mostly just roll with it. It's especially hard for me to swallow with these characters and in that situation, though. In reality, I'd think he'd be about to piss his pants after John *tracked him down* to pull him out of the club, especially since when John came into CBGB (ffs!), the look on his face had everyone saying, "yessir, yessir" and getting out of his way. But the writers had to make it similar to Claire's story, I think, and she'd just told Castiel that she hated him even though they all knew she needed rescuing, so that's what they had Dean-in-the-story do, too.

 

Tbh, I wish it had been that he was trying to play it cool and like he wasn't drunk so that John would be at least slightly less pissed off, but then he threw up all over the car on the way home.

 

I think they were trying for some parallels, with the "I hate you" and with Dean and Claire being saved from rape (I'm a little thrown at how fine they were with putting Dean in that type of position, as generally male TV characters aren't put in that type of role), but I can headcanon it into fitting Dean. Dean likely did lash out a few times when he was a teenager, testing his boundaries, especially since most of the time John wasn't even around. I also have a feeling his version (telling John he hated him) was probably oversold and he was telling it from a place of guilt/blaming himself. 

[AuntTora]

Mike Horton and Eric Brady in the same room again.

 

That's where I've seen that actor before! Heh.

[Pete Martell]

Roark reblogged a then and now photo on his Twitter (the now photo doesn't do him much justice, as I thought he looked good in the episode).

 

https://twitter.com/roarkcritchlow

 

Beyond DAYS, I also tend to remember him from his endless piano playing on BSG.

 

I wonder how many BSG/SPN actors this makes. 

[Blue Castle]

 

Dean likely did lash out a few times when he was a teenager, testing his boundaries, especially since most of the time John wasn't even around. I also have a feeling his version (telling John he hated him) was probably oversold and he was telling it from a place of guilt/blaming himself.

 

The only way that story makes sense to me is if it's heavily fanwanked, so I like what you're saying about it.  Like maybe Dean built it up into something it wasn't and he told Sam so many times that Sam believed it, too.  But the whole thing just felt off--it didn't fit the Dean and John dynamic we've seen since season 1.  At all.  And learning that Jared and Jensen had a problem with it makes me feel better, actually.  That was a weird scene that just felt like lazy writing to get to a parallel with the Claire situation.

 

I actually liked most of the Cas and Claire stuff, though.  I also thought Misha Collins did a good job at the very end when he has a look on his face like, "oh shit, I really don't want to have to kill Dean."  The Dean and Cas scene in the diner was good, too.  Misha and Jared have such nice chemistry together--I don't know why the writers have hardly given them any scenes together this year.  I'm not a Destiel person, but I like their friendship a lot and exiling Cas in boring-angel-land was a bad move.

 

 

[Pete Martell]

The only way that story makes sense to me is if it's heavily fanwanked, so I like what you're saying about it.  Like maybe Dean built it up into something it wasn't and he told Sam so many times that Sam believed it, too.  But the whole thing just felt off--it didn't fit the Dean and John dynamic we've seen since season 1.  At all.  And learning that Jared and Jensen had a problem with it makes me feel better, actually.  That was a weird scene that just felt like lazy writing to get to a parallel with the Claire situation.

 

It actually did remind me of their season 1 dynamic (moreso than some later seasons where they started implying John beat Dean), in that "Something Wicked" had Dean doing what he knew he wasn't supposed to be doing because for once in his life he wanted to have fun.

 

I'd love to know what Jensen and Jared felt about the scene and if they made any changes. It didn't quite work, but some did.

[Demented Daisy]

For the first time after an episode of Supernatural, I need a drink.

[Pete Martell]

TA, this episode didn't feel climactic at all and I think the only reason it got touted as a Mid!Season!Finale! is because all the other shows do real mid-season finales now. And I also couldn't care less about Claire. Sorry. I mean, her life sucks but isn't that kind of her mother's problem? Isn't the next step figuring out what's going on there?

 

Considering what the Novaks seemed to be like previously it seems like a pretty big change for Claire's mom to dump her on an elderly woman (who lived for what, like a year? the mom has only been gone three years, iIrc?) and then into foster care, so it seemed weird that they just waived off her total abandonment of her daughter like that wasn't weird/questionable. Maybe I'm misremembering how the Novaks were before, though. God forbid this becomes some big arc about Castiel becoming the father he never had or something, though. Claire's hopefully/probably just an excuse to write Cas off the show rather than the center for a big and enormously dull SL, I think?

 

I think the idea is to have a young voice on a show that is otherwise about 30something men and their angst, to remind Cas of his mistakes and have him attempt to find closure, to remind Dean of his childhood and unresolved issues, and to give a better reason for Cas not being with Dean and Sam all that much. 

 

I'd be surprised if she's around more than a few episodes. I had assumed they were going to kill her mother. Since they didn't, I have a feeling she had to give Claire up and maybe Cas will find her and reunite them.

 

I'm in the minority, but I didn't think the girl who played Claire was all that bad. She was thrown right into a ton of material. She made me care about her in spite of seeing this type of story more than once on more than one or two shows. Then again I liked Krissy too so maybe I just cut the young female characters a lot of slack.