TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[Milburn Stone]

23 hours ago, MissAlmond said:

Not a single version of Ten Little Indians/And Then There Were None have 100% worked for me...

Just a sort of random comment on ATTWN (1945), which, as you know, I liked a lot: It feels so English that I'd have sworn it was an English film. The only things that made me begin to question that were 1) the great screenwriter, Dudley Nichols, was an American; and 2) so much of the cast were either American (Walter Huston) or foreign nationals making their careers in America (Barry Fitzgerald, Louis Hayward, Mischa Auer, Roland Young, et. al.). And the French director, René Clair, had made movies in America. So I looked it up on the imdb, and lo and behold, it was shot at the Goldwyn Studios on Santa Monica Boulevard!

Edited January 24, 2021 by Milburn Stone

[MissAlmond]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

On 1/23/2021 at 10:36 AM, MissAlmond said:

Not a single version of Ten Little Indians/And Then There Were None have 100% worked for me...

Just a sort of random comment on ATTWN (1945), which, as you know, I liked a lot: It feels so English that I'd have sworn it was an English film. The only things that made me begin to question that were 1) the great screenwriter, Dudley Nichols, was an American; and 2) so much of the cast were either American (Walter Huston) or foreign nationals making their careers in America (Barry Fitzgerald, Louis Hayward, Mischa Auer, Roland Young, et. al.). And the French director, René Clair, had made movies in America. So I looked it up on the imdb, and lo and behold, it was shot at the Goldwyn Studios on Santa Monica Bo

I should have added my problem was never with the film or production itself of ATTWN.   It's with Agatha Christie herself.  I thought she weakened the story by changing the book's ending for the stage, which is used in most of the ATTWN films.  I can't blame the 1945 movie for that. 

[Rinaldo]

7 minutes ago, MissAlmond said:

I should have added my problem was never with the film or production itself of ATTWN.   It's with Agatha Christie herself.  I thought she weakened the story by changing the book's ending for the stage, which is used in most of the ATTWN films.  I can't blame the 1945 movie for that. 

The change in the ending is understandable for the stage, for practical reasons, but there's no real need to retain it for film. But on the whole, though many have obviously disagreed with me over the years, I feel that this is one Christie book better left undramatized. So much of the "action" is internal -- the characters' thoughts and fears, plus the twist that we follow all their thoughts at one point or another, yet we don't know who the mastermind is until we're told -- that it inevitably gets coarsened and weakened when acted out.

While we're on the subject: There used to be a blog called the "Agatha Christie Reader" that examined each of her books separately, and also discussed in detail all dramatizations and filming of her work. There was an especially wonderful series of entries that examined not just all the films of this book, but each element one by one (each role despite name changes, each director, etc.), and gave "awards" for handling various aspects best. Now, there's a website with that name but it seems to have different content, or if it's recycling the old entries it's very incomplete. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? Does the old blog survive somewhere under a different name?

[MissAlmond]

10 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

The change in the ending is understandable for the stage, for practical reasons,

I read Christie changed the stage ending because the book's was too bleak for an audience during WWII.  Wonder if the films kept it because it provided a romance.  

18 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

So much of the "action" is internal -- the characters' thoughts and fears, plus the twist that we follow all their thoughts at one point or another, yet we don't know who the mastermind is until we're told

Hmmmm.  Maybe that's the missing ingredient for me.  

 

14 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

Does anybody know what I'm talking about? Does the old blog survive somewhere under a different name?

Never heard of it. But if do find an updated version, please provide the link!  

[Milburn Stone]

How did Christie end it in the book?

[MissAlmond]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

How did Christie end it in the book?

Spoiler:

Spoiler

Philip and Vera were both guilty just as the recording stated.   After discovering Armstrong's body, Vera shot Philip and then hanged herself.   And Then There Were None.  The Judge remained the murderer.   

 

[Milburn Stone]

13 hours ago, MissAlmond said:

Spoiler:

  Reveal spoiler

Philip and Vera were both guilty just as the recording stated.   After discovering Armstrong's body, Vera shot Philip and then hanged herself.   And Then There Were None.  The Judge remained the murderer.   

 

Thanks, @MissAlmond. Knowing this, I see why (IMO) it was an absolutely necessary choice to change the ending for stage and film. At least in the film, the tone of the whole is so light despite the dark undertones (and, you know, all the murder) that anything but a romantic happy ending would be taken by the audience as a betrayal. It doesn't feel tacked on at all, and it doesn't feel like it was determined by focus groups, sneak preview comment cards, or boneheaded studio executives. It feels perfect.

(But I do like contemplating the utter darkness of the book's ending.)

[Rinaldo]

13 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

(But I do like contemplating the utter darkness of the book's ending.)

Of the various film versions, there's one one made in Russian in 1987 that (I've read) retains the dark tone and the original ending of the book -- apparently uniquely among adaptations. (I especially miss that defunct blog for its detailed discussion of this.) I do think it could be made to work in a film in a way that probably couldn't happen onstage. 

[Bastet]

On 1/24/2021 at 10:59 AM, MissAlmond said:

I should have added my problem was never with the film or production itself of ATTWN.   It's with Agatha Christie herself.  I thought she weakened the story by changing the book's ending for the stage, which is used in most of the ATTWN films.  I can't blame the 1945 movie for that. 

I'm with you.  I'd seen that film and at least a couple of stage performances before I read the book - I was never much drawn to Christie's books or their adaptations, but ATTWN seemed to pop up a fair bit - and when I finally read the book at a friend's urging, I thought Hm, this is a better story. 

[Charlie Baker]

I noticed in passing that today is the 100th anniversary of Donna Reed's birth.  TCM is showing her work during the day today, a lot of which I imagine will turn up on Watch TCM.  

Donna Reed on imdb 

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, Charlie Baker said:

TCM is showing her work during the day today, a lot of which I imagine will turn up on Watch TCM.  

One that isn't (as far as I can tell) on Watch TCM is Green Dolphin Street. Did anyone catch it this time around? I discovered it last time around (the only bit of it that I knew was the jazz standard derived from Bronislau Kaper's love theme for it), and... hoo boy, as Libby Gelman-Waxner used to say.

It's an amusingly blatant attempt by MGM to have another Gone With the Wind: adaptation from popular historical novel, unrequited love, sisterly rivalry, misconceived marriage (a man writes a letter of proposal to one of two sisters, but he's so drunk he proposes to Lana Turner instead of Donna Reed, so it's Lana who takes the boat from the Island of Guernsey to New Zealand for him, so he swallows hard and marries her), a nearby convent, a better man watching from the sidelines, natural disasters coinciding with personal turmoil, decades passing, the whole kit and caboodle. Everybody's in it, too: Frank Morgan, Gladys Cooper, Van Heflin, Edmund Gwenn, Reginald Owen, Moyna Macgill, Dame May Whitty. Though, oddly, MGM didn't spring for color this time (maybe the special effects, some of which* are indeed impressive, worked better in B&W). I can't really recommend the movie on its own merits, but it's so bizarrely grand-scaled, and so clear an attempt at a blockbuster (it did well at the box office, though it was so expensive that its profits ended up minuscule; and it seems totally forgotten now except for that song) that I keep hoping to find someone to talk about it with.

(*The massive earthquake still is effective, and won the movie its only Academy Award. But the use of backdrops to show vistas of islands or village streets have not, to put it gently, aged well.)

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

One that isn't (as far as I can tell) on Watch TCM is Green Dolphin Street. Did anyone catch it this time around? I discovered it last time around (the only bit of it that I knew was the jazz standard derived from Bronislau Kaper's love theme for it), and... hoo boy, as Libby Gelman-Waxner used to say...

You've given me an appetite to see it! :)

Does anyone else constantly confuse Bronnie's theme for this with another of his title themes, for the movie Invitation? It's almost like one is an inversion of the other. And both themes were taken up by jazz artists. 

[Rinaldo]

18 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

You've given me an appetite to see [Green Dolphin Street]! 🙂

Then you're in luck -- despite what I said earlier, it HAS popped up on Watch TCM after all. (There was no alert that it could now be seen on demand when the movie ended, as there usually is in such cases; and in fact it wasn't there for the next couple of hours.) If you see it, please share thoughts afterwards!

As to the similarity of this theme to the one from Invitation... I didn't know the latter, but I've just listened to a couple of renditions on YouTube. And yes, I definitely hear a family resemblance (in the same way I can identify a tune as sounding like Gershwin, or Kern), with the kind of lush harmony I like. But there's enough melodic difference that I don't think I'd confuse the two.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Rinaldo

[EtheltoTillie]

I recorded two of the Donna Reed movies. Green Dolphin (once watched years ago) and something called Faithful In My Fashion (never heard of). Will report back. 

I recommend you all watch East Side, West Side, with an aging Barbara Stanwyck and her cheating hubby, James Mason. Oh yeah, he cheats with Ava Gardner. This is a wacky noirish curiosity. 
 

spoiler. There’s a society party where people square dance in ball gowns. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by GussieK

[Charlie Baker]

The great Cloris Leachman may have more recognition from television, but she has a solid place in classic film--from her debut in the wild Kiss Me Deadly to the Mel Brooks movies, and her unforgettable Oscar winning work in The Last Picture Show.

Cloris Leachman Dies at 94

[StatisticalOutlier]

Last summer, there was a discussion here about Born to Be Bad, and @GussieK talked about how repellent she found Robert Ryan.  I agreed, and posted this:

Quote

But here's the thing.  I could swear that not long ago, I saw a movie that had Robert Ryan in it and he was super charming, and I loved him on the spot.  But every time I've seen him since then (I started seeking him out), he's given me the creeps.  For the life of me, I can't figure out what movie it was that I liked him so much in, even after looking at his filmography.  I'm thinking it was a western, and that he was wearing a hat.

And it's been driving me crazy ever since.  But today, I'm watching TCM and...I think it was Randolph Scott, not Robert Ryan.  A couple of years ago, I saw Ride the High Country in a movie theater, and movies always affect me more on the big screen, so the conditions were right for finding him super charming.  And there's the not insignificant clue that the charming person was wearing a hat.  It's sure sounding like Randolph Scott to me.

[EtheltoTillie]

Well, I tried watching Faithful In My Fashion, but it's just unwatchable.  I can't stick it out to the end.  Donna Reed looks so cute, but the romantic lead is the lackluster Tom Drake.  Also, Donna has been promoted to a high executive position.  It would break my heart to find out she gives up the position for the sake of the love story, so I can't watch to the end.  I can't find a spoiler, but maybe they went against the times and had her remain in her executive position. 

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Last summer, there was a discussion here about Born to Be Bad, and @GussieK talked about how repellent she found Robert Ryan.  I agreed, and posted this:

And it's been driving me crazy ever since.  But today, I'm watching TCM and...I think it was Randolph Scott, not Robert Ryan.  A couple of years ago, I saw Ride the High Country in a movie theater, and movies always affect me more on the big screen, so the conditions were right for finding him super charming.  And there's the not insignificant clue that the charming person was wearing a hat.  It's sure sounding like Randolph Scott to me.

Oh it’s actually Randolph Scott Day today, I see. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Randolph Scott is the anti-Robert Ryan. Not to be confused with Zachary Scott, also discussed here some time ago. 

[mariah23]

Sunday night’s Cicely Tyson double feature is now a memorial.  The same thing happened in 2019 with Carol Lynley. 
 

Edited to add: Tyson was supposed to appear on Live with Kelly and Ryan TOMORROW!!  It may have been pretaped.

Edited January 29, 2021 by mariah23
Looked up year of death and this is unbelievable

[Suzn]

17 hours ago, Charlie Baker said:

The great Cloris Leachman may have more recognition from television, but she has a solid place in classic film--from her debut in the wild Kiss Me Deadly to the Mel Brooks movies, and her unforgettable Oscar winning work in The Last Picture Show.

Cloris Leachman Dies at 94

Yes, don't forget Frau Blucher and Nurse Diesel!

[Charlie Baker]

 I didn't know it from any TCM promotions, and TCM.com isn't much help anymore, but I see that Amanda Seyfried is tonight's guest programmer. She's very good as Marion Davies in Mank, and the movie choices are Citizen Kane, followed by Ms. Davies' Cain and Mabel.  This seems a bit more promotionally calculated than the standard guest programmer sessions, but I don't know if that especially bothers me or not. 

[Pickles Aplenty]

I watched The Women, today.  I had seen parts of it before, but this was the first time I sat down and watched it from start to finish.  I have thoughts...

 I really enjoyed some things about this movie, but other things drove me absolutely nuts.  For one thing, I couldn't understand why Stephen Haines was such a big prize to be fought over and won, since he was completely spineless and lacked agency.  I also call bullshit on him really loving Mary, since he chose his mistress over her when confronted, and didn't seem to care at all that she was heartbroken.  That is not love.  I understand that the men weren't the true focus of the story, and that they only exist to propel the story forward for the sake of the women- which is actually pretty feminist for a movie made in 1939- but I still couldn't forget about that.  It made the ending a huge disappointment.

Another criticism I have is that Mary is given a couple of speeches by her mother and by Paulette Goddard's character about how to be a wife, and how "fighting" for her man is all part of the deal.  Excuse me, but how did Mary not "fight" for her man?  She confronted him, she told him he could choose his wife of ten years, or his flash-in-the-pan mistress, and the spineless wad chose is mistress.  What else was she supposed to do, exactly?  Yes, I know these are values straight out of 1939, when divorce was frowned upon and women had MUCH fewer options, but good LORD, was it hard to hear in 2021.  Everything was put on Mary's shoulders, and Stephen was treated like a big, dumb animal who couldn't help himself.  Mary should have known how to handle her delicate little baby-man.  UGH.

This makes it sound like I hated the movie, but that isn't true.  I liked a lot of things about it.  I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite movies of all-time, but I really liked the performances.  Joan Crawford was perfectly cast as a bitchy shopgirl/homewrecker (I always like her better when she plays bitchy instead of nice).  Norma Shearer elevated a boring role and had me feeling for her with her emotional reactions.  Paulette Goddard is stunning, and completely arresting, onscreen.  But, the one who really stole the show for me is Rosalind Russell.  I adored her in this movie.  Her whole look, her catty line delivery, the physical comedy she throws herself into, everything she does in this movie is sheer perfection.  I've heard people say Joan Crawford steals this movie, and I think Joan is great, but for me, the MVP is Rosalind Russell.  She's fantastic.

Anyway, I am not sorry I watched this movie, and I really do understand things were different back then, but I don't know if I will watch it again.  TBH, the energy of the movie is exhausting, especially the opening scene.  I kept silently urging the women to stop and take a breath.  I might just revisit clips on YouTube, instead.  And those are my thoughts on The Women, thank you for reading, lol.

[ruby24]

2 hours ago, Everina said:

I watched The Women, today.  I had seen parts of it before, but this was the first time I sat down and watched it from start to finish.  I have thoughts...

 I really enjoyed some things about this movie, but other things drove me absolutely nuts.  For one thing, I couldn't understand why Stephen Haines was such a big prize to be fought over and won, since he was completely spineless and lacked agency.  I also call bullshit on him really loving Mary, since he chose his mistress over her when confronted, and didn't seem to care at all that she was heartbroken.  That is not love.  I understand that the men weren't the true focus of the story, and that they only exist to propel the story forward for the sake of the women- which is actually pretty feminist for a movie made in 1939- but I still couldn't forget about that.  It made the ending a huge disappointment.

Another criticism I have is that Mary is given a couple of speeches by her mother and by Paulette Goddard's character about how to be a wife, and how "fighting" for her man is all part of the deal.  Excuse me, but how did Mary not "fight" for her man?  She confronted him, she told him he could choose his wife of ten years, or his flash-in-the-pan mistress, and the spineless wad chose is mistress.  What else was she supposed to do, exactly?  Yes, I know these are values straight out of 1939, when divorce was frowned upon and women had MUCH fewer options, but good LORD, was it hard to hear in 2021.  Everything was put on Mary's shoulders, and Stephen was treated like a big, dumb animal who couldn't help himself.  Mary should have known how to handle her delicate little baby-man.  UGH.

I kinda think that IS the point the movie was trying to make- that men can't help themselves, it's in their nature to have affairs, blah blah blah, so it's up to the wife to fight the other woman and "win" in the battle for the guy. 

It's made clear in the speech by the mom and by Paulette Goddard pretty much. If she "lets him go" it means she's not fighting for him, somehow. 

Totally backward thinking but so much how women have been conditioned to consider themselves and men. You're supposed to just "accept" male nature and forgive it. Pretty gross message that allows them to behave badly and take no responsibility for their actions and mistakes.

But I love so much about the movie anyway, mostly the performances from all the actresses. SO good. 

[Pickles Aplenty]

It reminded me so much of Betty Draper: if your husband has strayed, what did YOU do to MAKE him stray?  You must not have worked hard enough to make him happy.  So, so gross.

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, Everina said:

I watched The Women, today.  I had seen parts of it before, but this was the first time I sat down and watched it from start to finish.  I have thoughts...

...Anyway, I am not sorry I watched this movie, and I really do understand things were different back then, but I don't know if I will watch it again.  TBH, the energy of the movie is exhausting, especially the opening scene.  I kept silently urging the women to stop and take a breath.  I might just revisit clips on YouTube, instead.  And those are my thoughts on The Women, thank you for reading, lol.

The Women is one of my absolute favorite movies.  You are right about your criticisms about the attitude of what was expected of women and  you're right about what a weak POS Stephen Haines is.  It doesn't reduce my enjoyment of the movie because I just view it as just reflective of the times.  Some of what I love about the movie is very shallow - I love the clothes and jewelry and watching the pretty lives the rich live.  The performances are excellent and the dialogue is witty and sharp.  I am a huge Norma Shearer fan and everyone turns in top notch performances.

[Rinaldo]

I'm delighted that, for apparently the final title of his tenure as "Essentials" curator, Brad Bird chose The Music Man. I've said it here before, so I'll be brief: This is a movie that grows with continued acquaintance, and one of the best of all transfers of a stage musical to the screen. I used to consider it a pleasant bit of audience-pleasing fluff, but nowhere near the masterpieces of the form; now, after decades of studying and researching (and teaching) the form, I consider it one of the top masterpieces. Its seemingly simple story goes deep: music enriches our lives, and you can find it anywhere if you only listen. It's there in every detail, start to finish, and by some miracle we got the ideal performers for each role (some from the stage, some brand new), from The Buffalo Bills down to little Ronny Howard.

[Pickles Aplenty]

13 hours ago, Suzn said:

The performances are excellent and the dialogue is witty and sharp.  I am a huge Norma Shearer fan and everyone turns in top notch performances.

I figured it out- it's a movie where I enjoy the performances a lot more than I enjoy the story.  That's the perfect way to put it.

I agree that the clothes and jewelry are pretty to look at, btw.

Today, I'm watching the original version of A Star Is Born, with Janet Gaynor.  I have never seen this movie, or any of the remakes, so I'm starting with the OG.  We'll see how it goes.

[Annber03]

51 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

I'm delighted that, for apparently the final title of his tenure as "Essentials" curator, Brad Bird chose The Music Man. I've said it here before, so I'll be brief: This is a movie that grows with continued acquaintance, and one of the best of all transfers of a stage musical to the screen. I used to consider it a pleasant bit of audience-pleasing fluff, but nowhere near the masterpieces of the form; now, after decades of studying and researching (and teaching) the form, I consider it one of the top masterpieces. Its seemingly simple story goes deep: music enriches our lives, and you can find it anywhere if you only listen. It's there in every detail, start to finish, and by some miracle we got the ideal performers for each role (some from the stage, some brand new), from The Buffalo Bills down to little Ronny Howard.

My mom and I watched this last night, too :). It was nice to see it in full again, it'd been a while since I'd watched this film. I was particularly impressed with how the cast handled some of those rapid-fire lyrics. There's some lines in some of those songs that are a real mouthful to say! But they pull them off so flawlessly. 

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, Everina said:

I figured it out- it's a movie where I enjoy the performances a lot more than I enjoy the story.  That's the perfect way to put it.

I agree that the clothes and jewelry are pretty to look at, btw.

Today, I'm watching the original version of A Star Is Born, with Janet Gaynor.  I have never seen this movie, or any of the remakes, so I'm starting with the OG.  We'll see how it goes.

An earlier movie - 1932 What Price Hollywood - is the same underlying story and is terribly under-rated and overlooked.  Constance Bennett is wonderful in it.

[Rinaldo]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I was particularly impressed with how the cast handled some of those rapid-fire lyrics. There's some lines in some of those songs that are a real mouthful to say! But they pull them off so flawlessly. 

Music Man fans may know that Marian's big solo, "Being in Love," is a replacement for her solo in the stage version, "My White Knight." (More of a big-voiced aria, and hence a likely candidate for replacement in the film medium -- even as a kid, I understood the reason immediately.) But they may not know that that song itself was a replacement during tryouts for a longer version of the song that (here's the connection with the quote) was a real patter song like "Trouble," but sung rather than spoken. So originally, even Marian had to deliver rapid mouthfuls of words. Brilliant as Barbara Cook was in it, it wasn't going over with audiences, and they realized that the show already had more than enough flashy numbers, and what was needed for her big moment was something simple and sincere. So that is what it became. Still, Barbara Cook performed the long version at Carnegie Hall in 1975, and it's fascinating to hear, even if they were clearly right to replace it.

[EtheltoTillie]

I ended up skipping The Music Man this time, but I did catch The Killers (1964 version) on Noir Alley. I had never seen it, and it’s fantastic. They even had an interview with 93-year-old Clu Gulager, who plays Lee Marvin’s killing partner.  

[VCRTracking]

 

8 hours ago, GussieK said:

I ended up skipping The Music Man this time, but I did catch The Killers (1964 version) on Noir Alley. I had never seen it, and it’s fantastic. They even had an interview with 93-year-old Clu Gulager, who plays Lee Marvin’s killing partner.  

I remember first seeing it and wondering if Claude Akins' character was in love with John Cassavettes.

Edited February 1, 2021 by VCRTracking

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

 

I remember first seeing it and wondering if Claude Akins' character was in love with John Cassavettes.

An interesting thought!  I didn't want to post much about the movie, as I was so pleased to be able to watch it unspoiled. 

Spoiler

I found it interesting how Angie Dickinson was able to play both ends against the middle between Cassavettes and Ronald Reagan. 

 

[mariah23]

This year’s TCM Remembers is already piling up.  Christopher Plummer has died at age 91.

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, mariah23 said:

This year’s TCM Remembers is already piling up.  Christopher Plummer has died at age 91.

I was looking forward to seeing one for Cloris Leachman and she just doesn't rate one from TCM.  I am more than disappointed that she has been left out.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Suzn said:

I was looking forward to seeing one for Cloris Leachman and she just doesn't rate one from TCM.

Didn't she win an Oscar for "The Last Picture Show"? (ETA: Yes, she did!) I'd think that would qualify her alone...

[VCRTracking]

"Moguls and Movie Stars" which Christopher Plummer narrated is still my favorite TCM documentary series.

[EtheltoTillie]

Bulletin of the Robert Ryan Institute:

TCM gives us Robert Ryan at his most reptilian in Crossfire, a 1947 noir with the following banner description on my cable system:  A GI (Robert Mitchum) helps a pipe smoking detective (Robert Young) trap an anti-Semitic (emphasis added) soldier (Robert Ryan) for murder.  The movie starts out with Ryan bullying a young soldier who is probably meant to be gay.  I haven't watched the rest yet, but Gloria Grahame is also in it.

Edited February 10, 2021 by GussieK

[Razzberry]

On 1/31/2021 at 11:55 PM, GussieK said:

I ended up skipping The Music Man this time, but I did catch The Killers (1964 version) on Noir Alley. I had never seen it, and it’s fantastic. They even had an interview with 93-year-old Clu Gulager, who plays Lee Marvin’s killing partner.  

I'm glad he explained why he was acting so strangely in the film.  I had no idea it was written by Hemingway until this poster.   Admittedly seeing Angie Dickinson getting smacked around by Reagan only added to my enjoyment of The Killers.   Fun flick!

 

[tennisgurl]

Its probably sacrilegious, but the first experience I had with The Music Man was the meh remake starring Matthew Broderick! I saw the 60s movie years later and it really was night and day. 

Been exploring the TCM section on HBO Go lately, its a pretty good collection of movies. It has a few more modern movies that you wouldn't see on TCM proper, like The Dark Knight or movies that are probably not quite up to TCM's usual standards, but I like the variety. It has the movies you kind of expect, like City Lights or Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf, but they also have some more quirky choices, like a surprisingly big selection of classic horror movies like The Shining, The Exorcist, and Carnival of Souls, and quite a lot of international films that I really enjoy, like Cleo From 5 to 7, and Ikiru. Its fun to explore, its kind of a mix of "classic" TMC films and the kinds of movies that we get on theme nights or on noir alley. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

16 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Its probably sacrilegious, but the first experience I had with The Music Man was the meh remake starring Matthew Broderick! I saw the 60s movie years later and it really was night and day. 

That's mostly because the original is well cast, the jokes to land in a witty way, and it's visually lovely, whereas the remake looks like a crappy Polaroid photo left in the damn sun. 

The absence of Matthew Broderick is also a big ol' plus (seriously, what is this guy's appeal??).

[EtheltoTillie]

21 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I'm glad he explained why he was acting so strangely in the film.  I had no idea it was written by Hemingway until this poster.   Admittedly seeing Angie Dickinson getting smacked around by Reagan only added to my enjoyment of The Killers.   Fun flick!

 

I'm so glad someone got to see this! 

When I saw it was from a Hemingway story, I looked up the story.  It's about two pages long.  It's only the merest hint of what's in the  movie. 

Spoiler

The movie is a made up flashback to explain why the person was so passive about being killed.  The Hemingway story ends with the person being killed.  The Hemingway story has racial slurs! 

But it's worth checking out. Hemingway is a difficult literary figure.  He is about to be the subject of a Ken Burns documentary. 

While I was at it, I went down another rabbit hole.  I watched the 1946 version of The Killers, also based on the Hemingway story, with Ava Gardner and Burt Lancaster.  Then I watched The Killing (1956), also about a heist, with Sterling Hayden as the mastermind.  Really a similar film in plot/theme.  I had to rent the latter two on Amazon.

Spoiler

Ava Gardner is just as much of a double crosser as Angie Dickinson was.  The Killing also ends up with everyone dead or jailed. 

Check these out; I think you all will enjoy the comparisons.

[Razzberry]

I definitely want to see the one with with Ava Gardner and Burt Lancaster.  I saw it on a list of noir films and was confused by the same name, so thanks for clearing that up!

[caracas1914]

On 1/30/2021 at 4:23 PM, Everina said:

I watched The Women, today.  I had seen parts of it before, but this was the first time I sat down and watched it from start to finish.  I have thoughts...

 I really enjoyed some things about this movie, but other things drove me absolutely nuts.  For one thing, I couldn't understand why Stephen Haines was such a big prize to be fought over and won, since he was completely spineless and lacked agency.  I also call bullshit on him really loving Mary, since he chose his mistress over her when confronted, and didn't seem to care at all that she was heartbroken.  That is not love.  I understand that the men weren't the true focus of the story, and that they only exist to propel the story forward for the sake of the women- which is actually pretty feminist for a movie made in 1939- but I still couldn't forget about that.  It made the ending a huge disappointment.

Another criticism I have is that Mary is given a couple of speeches by her mother and by Paulette Goddard's character about how to be a wife, and how "fighting" for her man is all part of the deal.  Excuse me, but how did Mary not "fight" for her man?  She confronted him, she told him he could choose his wife of ten years, or his flash-in-the-pan mistress, and the spineless wad chose is mistress.  What else was she supposed to do, exactly?  Yes, I know these are values straight out of 1939, when divorce was frowned upon and women had MUCH fewer options, but good LORD, was it hard to hear in 2021.  Everything was put on Mary's shoulders, and Stephen was treated like a big, dumb animal who couldn't help himself.  Mary should have known how to handle her delicate little baby-man.  UGH.

This makes it sound like I hated the movie, but that isn't true.  I liked a lot of things about it.  I wouldn't say it's one of my favorite movies of all-time, but I really liked the performances.  Joan Crawford was perfectly cast as a bitchy shopgirl/homewrecker (I always like her better when she plays bitchy instead of nice).  Norma Shearer elevated a boring role and had me feeling for her with her emotional reactions.  Paulette Goddard is stunning, and completely arresting, onscreen.  But, the one who really stole the show for me is Rosalind Russell.  I adored her in this movie.  Her whole look, her catty line delivery, the physical comedy she throws herself into, everything she does in this movie is sheer perfection.  I've heard people say Joan Crawford steals this movie, and I think Joan is great, but for me, the MVP is Rosalind Russell.  She's fantastic.

Anyway, I am not sorry I watched this movie, and I really do understand things were different back then, but I don't know if I will watch it again.  TBH, the energy of the movie is exhausting, especially the opening scene.  I kept silently urging the women to stop and take a breath.  I might just revisit clips on YouTube, instead.  And those are my thoughts on The Women, thank you for reading, lol.

Can't really disagree with most of what you said.   What saves "The Women" somewhat is the cynical POV that while the film doesn't portray women in exactly a positive light, the men are actually portrayed just as bad if not worse.    It's essentially "men are dogs" , so women have to cope with it as best you can.   Not exactly enlightening, I grant you.  Yet the zingers and repartee in the film wear down any resistance.   The comic timing is impeccable by the cast. 

I did think the Paulette Goddard advice  speech to Norma Shearer is different then the one by her mother , the one genuinely insufferable character played by Lucille Watson.   The  mother  essentially tells Norma to shut up, grin and bear it and never confront her husband and to confide in no one.  Seriously.

Goddard's take is fairly risque, obviously implied,   Norma needs to beat her rival sexually, not just be the placid complacent housewife.      Again hardly putting the onus on the husband as it should be, but I just thought it was a different spin.

For my money the character/actress who steals the show is Mary Boland as the numerously married Countess who always marries "for love", her lament "La publicitee!'" is priceless.

 

 

[Charlie Baker]

Acclaimed, prolific screenwriter who collaborated with Luis Bunuel, Volker Schlondorff, Milos Forman, and others.

Jean-Claude Carrière, 89, Dies

[EtheltoTillie]

Saw an unexpectedly fun movie this afternoon. Bachelor In Paradise, with Bob Hope and Lana Turner. I loved Paula Prentiss. Lana had a few awful hairstyles. I also caught a few minutes of an early Lana movie, Two Tickets to Broadway.  Lana was a good dancer in this, but the plot was disturbing. Lana ends up with her sister’s boyfriend. Sis played by Joan Blondell. 

[Milburn Stone]

31 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Saw an unexpectedly fun movie this afternoon. Bachelor In Paradise, with Bob Hope and Lana Turner. I loved Paula Prentiss. Lana had a few awful hairstyles. I also caught a few minutes of an early Lana movie, Two Tickets to Broadway.  Lana was a good dancer in this, but the plot was disturbing. Lana ends up with her sister’s boyfriend. Sis played by Joan Blondell. 

Is the Mancini-David title song sung over the credits or at any point in the film? Or does it only appear instrumentally? For that matter, did Mancini score the whole film or just write a title song? And one more for that matter, does the song appear in the movie at all (with or without lyrics) or was it one of those "written to promote the movie even though it's not in it" songs?

[Suzn]

44 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Saw an unexpectedly fun movie this afternoon. Bachelor In Paradise, with Bob Hope and Lana Turner. I loved Paula Prentiss. Lana had a few awful hairstyles. I also caught a few minutes of an early Lana movie, Two Tickets to Broadway.  Lana was a good dancer in this, but the plot was disturbing. Lana ends up with her sister’s boyfriend. Sis played by Joan Blondell. 

Terrible movie, but I was really surprised that Lana Turner was such a good dancer.  I mean, really good.  I wonder why they didn't go more in that direction with her.  I can only think of one other movie in which she danced.  It was with Ricardo Montalban and the dancing was more incidental and not the focus of the movie.

[EtheltoTillie]

6 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Terrible movie, but I was really surprised that Lana Turner was such a good dancer.  I mean, really good.  I wonder why they didn't go more in that direction with her.  I can only think of one other movie in which she danced.  It was with Ricardo Montalban and the dancing was more incidental and not the focus of the movie.

There’s a 1950s remake on Watch TCM!  I don’t think I have the kishkes for it, but it does include Ann Miller.