TCM: The Greatest Movie Channel

[HyeChaps]

Watching 1776 is an annual ritual for me.  First show I ever saw on Broadway.  (The teachers must have known something was up when eight of us brought in early dismissal notes from our parents.)

Edited July 4, 2020 by HyeChaps
typo

[Rinaldo]

And for me it's The Music Man that's essential, so we both get to be happy. Brad Bird is in fact covering it as his Essential this evening, and I wonder what he'll say. (If he declares it the most satisfying film adaptation of a great American musical, he'll get no argument from me.)

Edited July 4, 2020 by Rinaldo

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 7/2/2020 at 7:05 PM, bmoore4026 said:

Tonight's movie theme is all about horseys, apparently.  Never cared for horse movies, myself.  Props for Westerns.  That's what I think of movie horses.

They're not props--they're transportation!  And the world is a better place because we have the sound of horses' feet in movies.  Does anyone not love that sound? 

I watched She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and My Darling Clementine yesterday, and bits and pieces of the others.  I can't believe how well these big movie stars could ride horses.  The stuntmen were amazing, of course, and horseback riding is kind of a rich man's sport so maybe it figures, but still.  I could (and kind of did) watch that all day.

I can't decide whether I like westerns in color or black and white.  I have a general preference for black-and-white movies, but I have to admit that Monument Valley looks good in color.  Which leads to one of the most satisfying moments of my life--the first time I saw Monument Valley in person.  We approached from the north, so it wasn't the iconic view of the mittens, but it looked exactly like I expected.  Exactly.  How often are our expectations completely 100% fulfilled? 

Ben Mankiewicz's little bit at the end of My Darling Clementine was funny.  He'd said in the introduction that John Ford knew Wyatt Earp, and Earp had told him about the gunfight himself.  Yet in the movie, it was portrayed differently.  When asked about why he didn't follow Earp's description, Ford replied (Mankiewicz imitating him), "Didja like the picture?"  The person said yes, it was a favorite, and Ford said something like there ya go. 

Didn't matter to me, because I for some reason thought the gunfight was a duel between Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday even though I've been to Tombstone.  Sheeeesh.

I very much enjoyed Henry Fonda in this.  I liked the way he sat in that tilted-back chair on the porch keeping an eye on things, and this little balancing thing he did at one point, with his arms out.  And admitting "That's me" when people talked about the lovely fragrance of the desert flowers. 

[bmoore4026]

I'm not happy that The Devil's Disciple and The Scarlet Coat aren't being shown today.  Those are personal faves.

Still, we've got 1776.  Love it despite New York constantly abstaining.  There's a point where John Hancock almost hits the New York representative with a flyswatter, and every year I hope he goes through with it.  Also, "Mama, Look Sharp" and "Molasses to rum to slaves" never fail to give me chills.

Never seen Yankee Doodle Dandy.  I might this year.  Afterwards, we have a bunch of musicals!  I think I'll watch Bye Bye Birdie; not a fan of The Music Man (West Side Story was robbed) but the one I really want to see, On the Town, is on a 2 AM and I'll be asleep by then.

[EtheltoTillie]

Really enjoying The Music Man right now. And enjoyed Yankee Doodle Dandy earlier. It’s so much of another era, with such patriotic fervor, but I teared up at the end. 

[Constant Viewer]

Classic Movie Musts did an episode over Yankee Doodle Dandy if anyone is interested.

https://www.classicmoviemusts.com/e/yankee-doodle-dandy-1942-w-special-guest-ted-walch/

[EtheltoTillie]

18 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

And for me it's The Music Man that's essential, so we both get to be happy. Brad Bird is in fact covering it as his Essential this evening, and I wonder what he'll say. (If he declares it the most satisfying film adaptation of a great American musical, he'll get no argument from me.)

I found the most interesting thing was how he explained Willson worked on this for eight years, because it takes so long to get things right.  But it is worth it.  Not clear if he was referring to the original show or the movie adaptation.  Probably the original show.

Also in reference to Harold Hill, he said that he was really a bandleader inside but he just didn't know it yet and you could see it in the way Preston played it with his movements, right from the beginning.  So he was a bandleader pretending to be a con man pretending to be a bandleader.  Anyway, it's a way of making Hill's redemption palatable. 

[GreekGeek]

14 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

 

Still, we've got 1776.  Love it despite New York constantly abstaining.  There's a point where John Hancock almost hits the New York representative with a flyswatter, and every year I hope he goes through with it.  Also, "Mama, Look Sharp" and "Molasses to rum to slaves" never fail to give me chills.

 

"New York abstains courteously!" Loved his insistence on the last word. That and "What the devil goes on in New York?" can always be counted on for a laugh from New Yorkers. Oh, and the New Jersey delegation showing up late, led by Benson's Governor Gatling, James Noble.

I was lucky enough to see 1776 during its Broadway run, and it's still one of the highlights of my theater-going life. It was the first time I saw the Founding Fathers as humans with flaws, especially John Adams, whom I'd previously known only as the second President. My mother and I saw the movie at Radio City Music Hall at Christmastime, and the experience was spoiled by noisy school kids on field trips. But I enjoyed seeing it yesterday for the most part. I could see the flaws--the wives felt shoehorned in, the humor (especially about Jefferson's sex life) was cringeworthy, and some of the performances were too big for the screen. Ron Holgate's Richard Henry Lee was the biggest offender, though fortunately he had little to do after his "The Lees of Old Virginia" number. (Fun fact: the fountain in that scene was the same as the one in the intro to Friends!) On the positive side: I too was happy that the "Cool Cool Considerate Men" number was restored. And the "Molasses to Rum" number was a showstopper. The final scene with the signers called up as the bell rings, and then freezing into a tableau was truly stirring.

[EtheltoTillie]

BTW, I know this may seem to be OT, but is anyone on this board watching Hamilton?  I will bring it back to topic.  Definitely an unpopular opinion.

I never saw the stage version, but I am watching the Disney presentation (only watched one third so far).  I understand it as a great achievement in theater and writing, but it doesn't send me in the way other musicals do, which is why I actually turned down free tickets two years ago--yes, call me crazy.  (I live in NYC and I can see anything.)  And I'm not just a fan of classics.  I really loved Fun Home and Dear Evan Hansen (both seen on stage), to give two examples.  I love Wicked.  I saw and liked In the Heights with LMM in the starring role.  It's the feeling of being forced to sit through a history lesson and it seems like such an effort and is so dry.  But I don't mind 1776. 

So back to topic:  While watching The Music Man again, so soon on the heels of watching Hamilton, I thought that Willson's combination of lyrics/music is every bit the equal of Hamilton's and maybe better ("Trouble," especially). The words just keep coming in an amazing cascade.  I think they scan better.  Really amazing work.

Edited July 5, 2020 by GussieK

[Notwisconsin]

Of the three, 1776, is the only one that is a genuine "period piece". George M. Cohan was involved in the making of Yankee Doodle Dandy, and Meredith Willson was alive in Iowa in 1912. They were still in the living memory of many of those who made it.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Notwisconsin said:

Of the three, 1776, is the only one that is a genuine "period piece". George M. Cohan was involved in the making of Yankee Doodle Dandy, and Meredith Willson was alive in Iowa in 1912. They were still in the living memory of many of those who made it.

Apparently, they screened a pre-release Yankee Doodle for Cohan just before his death.

[Rinaldo]

11 hours ago, GussieK said:

I found the most interesting thing was how he explained Willson worked on this for eight years, because it takes so long to get things right.  But it is worth it.  Not clear if he was referring to the original show or the movie adaptation.  Probably the original show.

Yes, Willson wrote a very enjoyable book about the making of the stage show, But He Doesn't Know the Territory! It was brought back into print a few years ago, and I recommend it for anyone interested. 

It did indeed take him many years to lick the story. Though he had extensive background as an instrumentalist, composer/songwriter, and radio personality, he had never written anything for the stage, and it took him a long time to get the libretto (the spoken part of a musical) in shape; eventually he needed a collaborator (Franklin Lacey, who gets co-librettist credit) to make it stageworthy. Example: One of the ideas he passionately wanted to incorporate was understanding and sympathy for the physically afflicted: his idea was that Winthrop had cerebral palsy. He was eventually persuaded that this carried more weight than the show could hold, but it took him a long time to figure out what to do instead. Then someone remarked how effective the anonymous lisping kid who sang one line of "Wells Fargo Wagon" was, and they realized that that was their solution: a speech impediment he was made self-conscious about, in combination with the loss of his father, would make him an introverted sullen kid whom a bandmaster could help.

11 hours ago, GussieK said:

Also in reference to Harold Hill, he said that he was really a bandleader inside but he just didn't know it yet and you could see it in the way Preston played it with his movements, right from the beginning.  So he was a bandleader pretending to be a con man pretending to be a bandleader.... 

I was so glad he said that, because it's an essential point, and not everyone gets it (I myself took an embarrassingly long time to notice it). And I think it's one of the essential American folk tales, in much the same way Faust and the star-crossed lovers are European. The con man who, unknown to himself, really can do what he's pretending to do. Another handy example is The Rainmaker, the movie in which Burt Lancaster pretends to be able to bring rain to a parched town, and in the end actually does (and brings new life to the people he meets as well).

Harold Hill prides himself on being a phony band leader. But he arrives in River City, and what does he do? He turns a squabbling school board into a barbershop quartet. He turns some mean-minded town ladies into a dance troupe. He turns a juvenile delinquent "from the wrong side of the tracks" into an enthusiastic drum major. And (see above) he makes a miserable kid delighted with a new cornet. He teaches new dances to all the young people in town. He does practically nothing but bring music to everyone! Because he teaches them that there's music everywhere, if only they tune in to it. It's right there at the start of Marian's big song (which I stupidly once considered a generic ballad): "There were bells... but I never heard them, till there was you." And what a great subject for a musical, which brings music to us in the audience.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Rinaldo

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Rinaldo said:

Yes, Willson wrote a very enjoyable book about the making of the stage show, But He Doesn't Know the Territory! It was brought back into print a few years ago, and I recommend it for anyone interested. 

It did indeed take him many years to lick the story. Though he had extensive background as an instrumentalist, composer/songwriter, and radio personality, he had never written anything for the stage, and it took him a long time to get the libretto (the spoken part of a musical) in shape; eventually he needed a collaborator (Franklin Lacey, who gets co-librettist credit) to make it stageworthy. Example: One of the ideas he passionately wanted to incorporate was understanding and sympathy for the physically afflicted: his idea was that Winthrop had cerebral palsy. He was eventually persuaded that this carried more weight than the show could hold, but it took him a long time to figure out what to do instead. Then someone remarked how effective the anonymous lisping kid who sang one line of "Wells Fargo Wagon" was, and they realized that that was their solution: a speech impediment he was made self-conscious about, in combination with the loss of his father, would make him an introverted sullen kid whom a bandmaster could help.

I was so glad he said that, because it's an essential point, and not everyone gets it (I myself took an embarrassingly long time to notice it). And I think it's one of the essential American folk tales, in much the same way Faust and the star-crossed lovers are European. The con man who, unknown to himself, really can do what he's pretending to do. Another handy example is The Rainmaker, the movie in which Burt Lancaster pretends to be able to bring rain to a parched town, and in the end actually does (and helps the people he meets as well).

Harold Hill prides himself on being a phony band leader. But he arrives in River City, and what does he do? He turns a squabbling school board into a barbershop quartet. He turns some mean-minded town ladies into a dance troupe. He turns a juvenile delinquent "from the wrong side of the tracks" into an enthusiastic drum major. And (see above) he makes a miserable kid delighted with a new cornet. He teaches new dances to all the young people in town. He does practically nothing but bring music to everyone! Because he teaches them that there's music everywhere, if only they tune in to it. It's right there at the start of Marian's big song (which I stupidly once considered a generic ballad): "There were bells... but I never heard them, till there was you." And what a great subject for a musical, which brings music to us in the audience.

Great list of all the musical incidents in the story!  Instead of an American folk tale, I was actually reminded of Taming of the Shrew while watching this yesterday.  Something about the dynamic of the stranger who arrives in town etc.

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by GussieK

[EtheltoTillie]

And may I be so bold as to say this version is exquisite.  And like The Music Man, the Fab Four brought so much great music to the world.  Usually of their own composition, but ironically not here.  I wore the grooves out on this album when I was 8. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by GussieK

[bmoore4026]

Alright, I take back what I said about The Music Man.  The Shipoopi is awesomeness personified as is the opening rhythmic song on the train at the beginning and the song the townspeople sing when Harold Hill arrives.

And "The Telephone Song" from Bye Bye Birdie is a great scene.

They had The Scarlet Coat on today earlier this morning.  It just isn't the same unless it's on the 4th of July.

Strangers on a Train is on later.  Definitely will watch.  The murder at the amusement park is definitely one of the best scenes in film.

And tonight they're honoring Jessica Tandy, which is good because she really was an underrated actress.

 

[Milburn Stone]

While Willson's book is very good, your post, @Rinaldo, may be the best thing about The Music Man ever written.

[ratgirlagogo]

On 7/4/2020 at 4:18 PM, bmoore4026 said:

I'm not happy that The Devil's Disciple and The Scarlet Coat aren't being shown today.  Those are personal faves.

The Scarlet Coat was shown at 8 am on Sunday July 5th.

[Charlie Baker]

RIP to a prolific composer of memorable film scores

Ennio Morricone

 

[voiceover]

And two thumbs way down to the Washington Post's Twitter, who chose to have a five-year-old write the headline for his obit.

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by voiceover

[Inquisitionist]

On 7/5/2020 at 6:29 AM, GussieK said:

BTW, I know this may seem to be OT, but is anyone on this board watching Hamilton?  I will bring it back to topic.  Definitely an unpopular opinion.

There is a Hamilton thread in the Movies sub-forum.  Definitely an unpopular opinion, but not everyone has to like everything.

On 7/5/2020 at 6:33 PM, Milburn Stone said:

your post, @Rinaldo, may be the best thing about The Music Man ever written.

It was fascinating.,.. and yet, I still don't like Harold Hill.  🙃

[Rinaldo]

2 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

and yet, I still don't like Harold Hill. 

As a wise person said here recently 😉 not everyone has to like everything.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Rinaldo

[EtheltoTillie]

I have been catching up on other TCM fare.  I have not watched The Scarlet Coat yet.  But I watched Three Godfathers, a John Ford western I had never seen (or even heard of).  What an epic!  You felt every agonizing moment of their journey to redemption.  I had just been reading about the efforts to cancel John Wayne, so I was really curious to watch this. 

I don't know if anyone here watches Better Call Saul, but this year's desert trek episode took cues from this movie.  Did the silly "three men and a baby" films of the eighties also derive from this?

[ratgirlagogo]

20 hours ago, GussieK said:

But I watched Three Godfathers, a John Ford western I had never seen (or even heard of).  What an epic!  You felt every agonizing moment of their journey to redemption.  I had just been reading about the efforts to cancel John Wayne, so I was really curious to watch this. 

I don't know if anyone here watches Better Call Saul, but this year's desert trek episode took cues from this movie.  Did the silly "three men and a baby" films of the eighties also derive from this?

I also thought the "Bagman" episode from Better Call Saul drew from this, and also from The Searchers.   I believe Three Men and a Baby is considered a remake.   While I like this version (there were several) of Three Godfathers a LOT and have recommended it more than once, especially as a Christmas film, an even better version is the 1936 one - darker, more painful, and thus earning its redemptive ending in a harder, more moving way.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028367/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_2

It shows pretty regularly on TCM, keep an eye out for it.

 

 

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I also thought the "Bagman" episode from Better Call Saul drew from this, and also from The Searchers.   I believe Three Men and a Baby is considered a remake.   While I like this version (there were several) of Three Godfathers a LOT and have recommended it more than once, especially as a Christmas film, an even better version is the 1936 one - darker, more painful, and thus earning its redemptive ending in a harder, more moving way.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028367/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_2

It shows pretty regularly on TCM, keep an eye out for it.

 

 

The American Three Men and a Baby was based on a French film of the 80s Three Men and a Cradle.  I'm guessing they were also based loosely on Three Godfathers.  I'll keep my eye out for the 1936 version.  Thanks!

[VCRTracking]

The color photography of the John Ford 3 Godfather's is also very beautiful. I think it looks better than "The Quiet Man".

6 hours ago, GussieK said:

The American Three Men and a Baby was based on a French film of the 80s Three Men and a Cradle.  

Haven't seen the French one. Did it also have an unnecessary drug smuggling plot like the American remake?

Edited July 10, 2020 by VCRTracking

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

The color photography of the John Ford 3 Godfather's is also very beautiful. I think it looks better than "The Quiet Man".

Haven't seen the French one. Did it also have an unnecessary drug smuggling plot like the American remake?

I haven't seen it either, but apparently yes, according to Roger Ebert's review of the American version.  https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/three-men-and-a-baby-1987

[bmoore4026]

Watching Jezebel right now.  God, that dress Bette Davis wears to the black and white ball is amazing.

[ratgirlagogo]

10 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Watching Jezebel right now.

Fascinating to watch right now not just because of the BLM aspect that probably most of us were thinking of even long before, but because of the pandemic/quarantine plotline.

[Milburn Stone]

Finally caught up with a long-DVR'ed Noir Alley selection, Ride a Pink Horse. A really good movie, which you can't always count on with Noir Alley. (Oftentimes, Eddie Muller's intros and outros are the best thing about watching, and pretty close to a reason unto themselves.) The only place I parted company with Eddie was in his outro, when he said (roughly), "That was a good movie, but imagine how good it would have been with Richard Conti or [I forget the other actor] in the lead instead of Robert Montgomery." Montgomery, from my exposure to him, always seemed like an actor with real limitations, but sometimes an actor's limitations are a perfect match for a role. I think the movie would have been worse, not better, with the actor substitutions Eddie suggested.

The movie was also my introduction to Wanda Hendrix. It's not clear at the beginning of the movie whether she's going to be good in it, but it is clear by the end of the movie that she has been! 

[bmoore4026]

11 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Fascinating to watch right now not just because of the BLM aspect that probably most of us were thinking of even long before, but because of the pandemic/quarantine plotline.

Never even considered the pandemic aspect.  Julie going off with Pres to the where the Yellow Jack victims are being sent is heart wrenching because it might very well mean certain death for her.  But she'll be with the man she loves in his final days.  It's sad ending, but a beautiful kind of sadness.

[bmoore4026]

Kiss Me Kate is on later today.  Very underrated musical with a lot of great numbers: "Too Darn Hot", "We Open in Venice", "Thou Swell", "Brush Up Your Shakespeare".

[VCRTracking]

On 7/13/2020 at 1:12 PM, bmoore4026 said:

Kiss Me Kate is on later today.  Very underrated musical with a lot of great numbers: "Too Darn Hot", "We Open in Venice", "Thou Swell", "Brush Up Your Shakespeare".

Also the first appearance of Bob Fosse doing his trademark jazzy dancing with Carol Haney:

Neat pic I found on Twitter today:

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by VCRTracking

[Inquisitionist]

On 7/13/2020 at 3:12 PM, bmoore4026 said:

Kiss Me Kate is on later today.  Very underrated musical with a lot of great numbers: "Too Darn Hot", "We Open in Venice", "Thou Swell", "Brush Up Your Shakespeare".

Wonderful songs, nightmarish costumes!

[StatisticalOutlier]

1.  TCM is showing something called Archival Screening Night on Tuesday July 21.  Their website has no information about it.  I found out what it is:

Quote

There are 21 films and videos from around the world from such archives as the LoC, UCLA, Eye Filmmuseum, George Eastman, Smithsonian, Steven Spielberg Film Archive (Tel Aviv) -- even the Albanian National Film Archives which had been closed to the world for decades. You will see Cab Calloway, Josephine Baker, a 1913 French silent comedy, John Waters, the strangest Alice in Wonderland ever ... and more!

https://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=238407

The link in the first post has a list of films and descriptions.

2.  When looking for that, I ran across a post about the intro videos TCM has that look like pop-up books.  Someone noticed that TCM erased the confederate flag from one of them (a still from She Wore a Yellow Ribbon). 

https://cinesavant.com/cinesavant-column-243/

3.  Also on Tuesday night is a documentary called No Maps On My Taps, about the old-time tap dancers.  I watched it when it was on a few months ago and I just adore the dancing those guys did.

[ruby24]

Wanted to post some movies I recently caught:

Sorry, Wrong Number (1948)- this one was underwhelming, although I can see how it worked as a radio play. Too much exposition and too many phone calls. The plot is overly complicated for what it is, but Barbara Stanwyck and Burt Lancaster are good, as always.

Ride the High Country (1962)- Great western. Early Sam Peckinpah but you can see his touch and the kind of meanness from his later films trying to creep in on the edges of this one. A sendoff to the old style cowboy heroes, Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott, and a welcome in of the newer, darker westerns to come. Loved it.

The Italian Job (1969)- this was okay until the end with the unbelievable mini-cooper chase and insane literal cliffhanger ending. Honestly worth seeing just for the last 40 minutes or so. The early comedy stuff didn't work as well for me as that last part.

In Cold Blood (1967)- great docudrama of Truman Capote's novel. The actors are great and the murder sequence is really harrowing. I bet audiences were shocked in 1967 to see something like that. Loved it.

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by ruby24

[Wiendish Fitch]

3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Wanted to post some movies I recently caught:

Sorry, Wrong Number (1948)- this one was underwhelming, although I can see how it worked as a radio play. Too much exposition and too many phone calls. The plot is overly complicated for what it is, but Barbara Stanwyck and Burt Lancaster are good, as always.

I still love this movie, but that's a fair criticism. Barbara Stanwyck's acting is first-rate (as always); her Leona is, let's be real, just an awful person, but you do end up pulling for her as the film progresses. Stanwyck did have a gift for making less-than-admirable women sympathetic, didn't she?

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I still love this movie, but that's a fair criticism. Barbara Stanwyck's acting is first-rate (as always); her Leona is, let's be real, just an awful person, but you do end up pulling for her as the film progresses. Stanwyck did have a gift for making less-than-admirable women sympathetic, didn't she?

Well, not in Double Indemnity, heh heh . . .   

But for an example of what you are speaking of, I caught Clash By Night, with Stanwyck and Paul Douglas and our favorite bad guy, Robert Ryan, apparently re-creating his stage role from 10 years earlier (see link https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1952/06/19/84326525.html?pageNumber=32  ).   (Trivia buffs:  If you look at the old Times review, note the birth announcement for Ingrid Bergman's twins, Isabella and Ingrid Rossellini, on the same page.  Also some neat theater ads.)  Like the Times reviewer, I found the conclusion somewhat unconvincing, but Stanwyck managed to earn my sympathy.  No so in the unwatchable curiosity B.F.'s Daughter, which also aired recently.  I managed to make it only about halfway through.  This was a strange mashup of anti-capitalist political tract and meet-cute love story.  Stanwyck was way too old.  Did anyone watch this?

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by GussieK

[EtheltoTillie]

On 7/13/2020 at 4:12 PM, bmoore4026 said:

Kiss Me Kate is on later today.  Very underrated musical with a lot of great numbers: "Too Darn Hot", "We Open in Venice", "Thou Swell", "Brush Up Your Shakespeare".

Meant to add earlier that I don't think Kiss Me Kate is underrated.  I think it is highly regarded, and it does have a lot of great numbers.  I love it. 

[VCRTracking]

11 hours ago, ruby24 said:

The Italian Job (1969)- this was okay until the end with the unbelievable mini-cooper chase and insane literal cliffhanger ending. Honestly worth seeing just for the last 40 minutes or so. The early comedy stuff didn't work as well for me as that last part.

 

I also love the opening credits. Makes me want drive through the Italian Alps in a Lamborghini as Matt Monro sings "In Days Like These"

[Annber03]

15 hours ago, ruby24 said:

In Cold Blood (1967)- great docudrama of Truman Capote's novel. The actors are great and the murder sequence is really harrowing. I bet audiences were shocked in 1967 to see something like that. Loved it.

I remember seeing a show about the Clutter murders once, and at one point they talked about the movie and showed a picture of Perry Smith next to one of Robert Blake. It's downright eerie how much those two looked alike. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I remember seeing a show about the Clutter murders once, and at one point they talked about the movie and showed a picture of Perry Smith next to one of Robert Blake. It's downright eerie how much those two looked alike. 

To this day I can't handle a bottle of aspirin without thinking of him.

[Rinaldo]

On 7/20/2020 at 4:01 AM, ruby24 said:

Wanted to post some movies I recently caught:

Sorry, Wrong Number (1948)- this one was underwhelming, although I can see how it worked as a radio play. Too much exposition and too many phone calls. The plot is overly complicated for what it is, but Barbara Stanwyck and Burt Lancaster are good, as always.

Ride the High Country (1962)- Great western. Early Sam Peckinpah but you can see his touch and the kind of meanness from his later films trying to creep in on the edges of this one. A sendoff to the old style cowboy heroes, Joel McCrea and Randolph Scott, and a welcome in of the newer, darker westerns to come. Loved it....

Sorry, Wrong Number was, I think, hurt in its expansion from a radio play. It needs to be quick and short, or it doesn't really work, and the movie doesn't.

Ride the High Country is one of a very few Westerns I truly love. I think I would disagree about the later Peckinpah creeping into this: it's a truly humane story when the two old-timers realize that they need to rescue the girl they had planned on escorting and leaving; and then it all goes south after that. A moving final shot, as a body falls out of frame and we see only the beautiful mountains (I wish the image lasted a second longer before slapping on THE END). And a stunning debut for a radiant 21-year-old Mariette Hartley (fondly remembered for, among many fine credits, those endearing Polaroid ads with James Garner).

On 7/20/2020 at 2:17 PM, GussieK said:

Meant to add earlier that I don't think Kiss Me Kate is underrated.  I think it is highly regarded, and it does have a lot of great numbers.  I love it. 

I would agree. (I don't happen to like it myself, because I have a personal Kathryn G. aversion that nobody else needs to care about.) It is indeed well regarded -- Pauline Kael put it on her short list of movie musicals that she found actually enjoyable -- and there's one number that's absolutely stellar. That's "From This Moment On," added for the movie (it's a cut song from another Porter show). Three magnificent pairs of dancers, including Bob Fosse (allowed to choreograph his own segment) giving us an early indication of what he liked, and kind of a World Summit Meeting of the three premier dancing juveniles of that time: Fosse, Bobby Van, and Tommy Rall. (I do have to mention, for the record, that "Thou Swell" isn't in this movie. It's a Rodgers & Hart song, from A Connecticut Yankee.)

[voiceover]

His Girl Friday is showing -- obv a belated birthday prezzie from TCM.   Thanks folks.

Sometimes I think it's a shame that Cary Grant & Rosalind Russell weren't teamed up after this.  Their timing in this film is perfection, esp in their first scene (..."Sold, American!"), and the lunch with Ralph Bellamy (watch Grant light his cig by intercepting the one Russell struck for her own).  But they'd never be able to top this.

Of course, I also have a tremendous soft spot for the nest of chickens that double as Hildy's reporter colleagues:

Sheriff(referring to the prisoner): Why he's just as sane as me!

Reporters(chorus): Saner!

[VCRTracking]

Camelot and Soylent Green are on tonight. The former isn't my favorite telling of the Arthur legend but I like the songs like the title song, "What Do the Simple Folk Do" and "If Ever I Should Leave You". Knowing Vanessa Redgrave and Franco Nero fell IRL gives last one an extra charge.

I was spoiled about Soylent Green's twist long before I saw it from the SNL sketch about the failed sequels with Phil Hartman as Charlton Heston. Love when he runs out and screams:

Spoiler

"SOYLENT GREEN IS STILL MADE OUT OF PEOPLE!!! THEY DIDNT CHANGE THE RECIPE LIKE THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO!!!"

ETA because the image of him is just too funny: 

Edited July 23, 2020 by VCRTracking

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Camelot and Soylent Green are on tonight. The former isn't my favorite telling of the Arthur legend but I like the songs like the title song, "What Do the Simple Folk Do" and "If Ever I Should Leave You". Knowing Vanessa Redgrave and Franco Nero fell IRL gives last one an extra charge.

I was spoiled about Soylent Green's twist long before I saw it from the SNL sketch about the failed sequels with Phil Hartman as Charlton Heston. Love when he runs out and screams:

  Hide contents

"SOYLENT GREEN IS STILL MADE OUT OF PEOPLE!!! THEY DIDNT CHANGE THE RECIPE LIKE THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO!!!"

ETA because the image of him is just too funny: 

Camelot has some great songs, but it's such a dull story.  Phil Hartman was a national treasure.  So sad.

Edited July 23, 2020 by GussieK

[Rinaldo]

14 hours ago, GussieK said:

Camelot has some great songs, but it's such a dull story.

My take on Camelot (both onstage and onscreen) is a little different. I think it's a great story -- "the matter of Britain" as it's called has inspired endless retellings over the centuries, including T.H. White's wonderful book that was supposedly the direct source for Camelot -- but Alan Lerner never found a way to structure it and tell it compellingly. (He always seemed to have trouble with this challenge, unless he had a strong existing structure like a Shaw play to work from.)

But the songs, beautiful as they are, are a problem too. Because there are two main themes in this version of the Arthur story: the idealism of the Round Table (harnessing Might for Right), and the doomed love triangle in which Guenevere loves both Arthur and Lancelot and they all hurt each other.... but none of the songs have anything to do with either idea! For example, lovely as it is, "If Ever I Would Leave You" could belong to any love story. Not until nearly the end, with "I Loved You Once in Silence" and the final reprise of "Camelot" ("don't let it be forgot..."), do the songs engage with the story, and by then it's too late.

Still, the appeal of the music and the idea of the Arthur story mean that people will always try to produce Camelot and hope it works this time.

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Rinaldo said:

My take on Camelot (both onstage and onscreen) is a little different. I think it's a great story -- "the matter of Britain" as it's called has inspired endless retellings over the centuries, including T.H. White's wonderful book that was supposedly the direct source for Camelot -- but Alan Lerner never found a way to structure it and tell it compellingly. (He always seemed to have trouble with this challenge, unless he had a strong existing structure like a Shaw play to work from.)

But the songs, beautiful as they are, are a problem too. Because there are two main themes in this version of the Arthur story: the idealism of the Round Table (harnessing Might for Right), and the doomed love triangle in which Guenevere loves both Arthur and Lancelot and they all hurt each other.... but none of the songs have anything to do with either idea! For example, lovely as it is, "If Ever I Would Leave You" could belong to any love story. Not until nearly the end, with "I Loved You Once in Silence" and the final reprise of "Camelot" ("don't let it be forgot..."), do the songs engage with the story, and by then it's too late.

Still, the appeal of the music and the idea of the Arthur story mean that people will always try to produce Camelot and hope it works this time.

Would the musical have been as popular that if not for it's association with JFK(it was his favorite show) after his death? 

The movie would probably be a great double feature with Disney's animated "The Sword in the Stone" since they both are based on White's book.

Edited July 24, 2020 by VCRTracking

[Rinaldo]

31 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Would the musical have been as popular that if not for it's association with JFK(it was his favorite show) after his death?

That's easy to answer definitely: yes.

It was already a success before his death. Camelot the stage musical opened in December 1960, to overall negative reviews. It had such a large advance sale that it kept running to full houses; then, several months later, the authors took the highly unusual step (after opening) of revising it, cutting out 20 minutes and dropping two songs. At the same time, they took the equally unusual step (for a current show) of showing its most appealing moments on TV, an Ed Sullivan Show devoted to Lerner & Loewe's work. And the nation said (as I remember my father did, right after that segment finished), "How in the world can that be a bad show?" and ordered tickets. So it ran for 2 years (a success in those days, if not a super-smash), and scheduled a national tour.

And then came JFK's assassination in November 1963, and Jacqueline Kennedy's remarks about it being his favorite show, and "one brief shining moment." Certainly, that gave the title an extra boost of publicity and familiarity, and gave it a special meaning in people's minds. Maybe the movie wouldn't have been made so soon without that push, though that's debatable -- all the big L&L titles got filmed, after all. Anyway, after a decade or so, the Kennedy association can't account for much in terms of continued popularity and decisions to revive it.

31 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

The movie would probably be a great double feature with Disney's animated "The Sword in the Stone"

Thank you for saying that, because it makes me recollect that I saw them both for the first time on the same day, though not both as movies. I was in high school when the Camelot national tour came to Chicago. I bought myself a ticket for an evening performance, took the bus into the city in the morning, and in the afternoon saw The Sword in the Stone at one of the big movie palaces in the Loop. Then to the opera house in the evening for Camelot on stage. So I sort of managed my own double feature.

Someday someone should make a movie of the latter (adult) portion of White's book, not as a musical. I don't suppose it'll ever happen, but his dialogue and sequence of scenes (almost none of which Lerner used) are wonderful.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Rinaldo

[benteen]

Recently on TCM was1950 movie called Louisa, starring Ronald Reagan, Ruth Hussey, Edwunn Gween and Piper Laurie (among others) in her film debut.  A fun and funny movie that was a pleasant surprise.

Edited July 25, 2020 by benteen

[Milburn Stone]

On 7/24/2020 at 9:26 AM, Rinaldo said:

It was already a success before his death...

To add one bit of data to @Rinaldo's point: In 1961, 9 out of 10 middle class homes in America had the Camelot original cast album. (I'm making that up, but not by much.)