Aaron Sorkin Kicked One Of His Writers Out Of The Room For Challenging The Newsroom's Campus Rape Storyline

[Primetimer]

She's a woman, but that's probably just a coincidence.

Read the story

[90 Day Pinochet]

This looks bad but who are we to question the actions of a Great Man? I am sure Aaron Sorkin's shout resonated with the powers of truth, honesty, and rectitude. In contrast, I bet Alena Smith doesn't even know how to high-five.

Note: if you are also a self-satisfied, male boomer with the tendency to punctuate conversation with random monologues, it is likely that you are a Great Man like Sorkin so feel free to criticize.

Edited December 8, 2014 by 90 Day Pinochet

[meep.meep]

Weren't they done working in the "writers room?"  Sounds more like a listening and arguing room to me....

 

If it aired last night, then it was written months ago.  This is the last season of the show.  She hasn't violated anyone's security by tweeting about her own experiences months after the fact.

 

I'm a big fan of the short, declarative sentence type of communication.

[Victor the Crab]

Aaron Sorkin really comes off as a massive douche for this. It just proves that he's completely tone deaf when it comes to understanding women, and that he believes his opinion on the subject, as well as others, is all that matters.

[CaughtOnTape]

If it aired last night, then it was written months ago.  This is the last season of the show.  She hasn't violated anyone's security by tweeting about her own experiences months after the fact.

 

I think that's for the people who were in the room to decide. 

[HollaMcDollar]

Here is Sorkins response

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/aaron-sorkin-responds-to-newsroom-writers-campus-rape-plot-reaction/

[madam magpie]

I wasn't even going to touch this because I don't have the energy for a two-front war, but thanks for posting that, HollaMcDollar. The irony of this almost makes me wonder if it was all planned. No one could get this (un)lucky, right??

[90 Day Pinochet]

Weren't they done working in the "writers room?"  Sounds more like a listening and arguing room to me....

 

If it aired last night, then it was written months ago.  This is the last season of the show.  She hasn't violated anyone's security by tweeting about her own experiences months after the fact.

 

I'm a big fan of the short, declarative sentence type of communication.

 

But think about the privacy implications of revealing this information. What if this kept Aaron Sorkin from getting into Stanford Medical School or being looked at by NFL teams?

[elzin]

Ah, the rules of the writers' room. Confidentiality amongst the writers is most important. Do not breach that confidentiality.  However, airing your dirty laundry and personal grievances for 15 or so years is ok.

[tilly]

I'd be more likely to accept "how dare you breach our trust and privacy?!" outrage from someone who hasn't used his influence and platform to yell at old girlfriends for a decade. 

[Boundary]

I heard Alena’s objections and there was some healthy back and forth. After a while I needed to move on (there’s a clock ticking) but Alena wasn’t ready to do that yet. I gave her more time but then I really needed to move on. Alena still wouldn’t let me do that so I excused her from the room.

The next day I wrote a new draft of the Princeton scenes–the draft you saw performed last night. Alena gave the new pages her enthusiastic support.

 

 

I'm in no place to comment about Sorkin's personal life and what not. But shouldn't the highlighted passage above be part of the conversation? I mean, according to Sorkin:

1. This was her first show

2. This show was already established when she joined

3. It is his show, he has to write it somehow, over the objections of a section of the writer's room

 

I'm not so concerned about confidentiality and future job prospects of either party. There were disagreements in a creative process, of which Sorkin was in charge, but if she was being counter-productive then he was entitled to ask her to leave the room. Now that Alena Smith has brought this to a public forum, with the not-so-subtle accusation of sexism, we will need to know:

1. How many writers were in that room and how many were women? What are their views of what happened?

2. Sorkin is entitled to be an exec producer of his own show but he's not entitled to discriminate based on sex, for example. So how exactly did he exercise his authority?

3. Did she seek redress from HBO and whoever else was in charge of Sorkin? How about the writers' guild? 

[madam magpie]

1. How many writers were in that room and how many were women? What are their views of what happened?

 

To add to the above, I'd also love to know what Emily Mortimer and Olivia Munn thought of this story. If they're smart, we won't ever know, but still. I have a lot of respect for both of them, Emily Mortimer especially, and I'm dying for them to weigh in. And Thomas Sadowski has been a vocal supporter of women, so I'd like to hear his take as well. I can't imagine any environment where a story like this wouldn't spawn discussion among the people involved, which of course is the point so...well played, Aaron Sorkin. And boy did the audience walk right into it.

[meep.meep]

But think about the privacy implications of revealing this information. What if this kept Aaron Sorkin from getting into Stanford Medical School or being looked at by NFL teams?

Damn!  Again I'm not looking at the bigger picture!   If only there were more men to explain it to me.

 

How's his passing arm and grace under pressure?  We could get the 49ers to look at him.  He might get into the Medical School in another way then.

[LilaFowler]

How dare a female question a Great Man?!  Out of the Writers Room, out, out, out!  Doesn't she know that women only exist to serve as plot points for The Stories of Great Men?  I'm sure we'll see a reenactment of this in a future Sorkin project.

[90 Day Pinochet]

How's his passing arm and grace under pressure?  We could get the 49ers to look at him.

 

Mel Kiper Jr.'s 2015 NFL Draft projection of Aaron Sorkin, quoted in full:

 

Aaron Sorkin has great arm-strength and accuracy, good feet, but his decision-making and pocket presence is uneven. When called upon to audible, he receives a surprising number of delay of game penalties.

 

Although there is no denying his raw ability, his behavior off the field has him dropping down many teams’ boards. After his public refusal to answer questions from internet journalists my front-office sources question whether Sorkin can handle the media scrutiny at the next level. Also, allegations that he told his coach, “you don’t understanding the game like [sorkin] do[es]!” have led many scouts to question his maturity.

 

His reputation among his teammates is highly polarized, ranging from “His pre-game speeches remind me of a forgotten America… a better America.” to “Dude is kind of a prick.”

 

Projection: Although many teams consider Sorkin a late 5th round pick, it is rumored that the Raiders will pick him up early in the 2nd.

Edited December 9, 2014 by 90 Day Pinochet

[crashboom]

 

There were disagreements in a creative process, of which Sorkin was in charge, but if she was being counter-productive then he was entitled to ask her to leave the room.

 

Alena is claiming that Sorkin's take on what happened is very different from hers. One reviewer, Emily Yoshida of The Verge, posted this with her review:

 

Full disclosure: a personal friend of mine, Alena Smith, was a writer on this season of The Newsroom, and I knew this episode was coming as far back as June. I also knew that she was nearly fired for objecting to Sorkin's depiction of the Princeton campus rape cover-up. (Obviously, this story was broken and written long before Rolling Stone's UVA rape story debacle; it's just some kind of cosmic joke that the episode happened to air the exact same week.) The picture she painted of a red-faced, sputtering Sorkin screaming at her from the top of a stairwell both seemed like a scene straight from the very show they were arguing about and a portrait of an '80s man flailing in the face of a cultural shift.

 

 

Of course Sorkin at the end of the day is the one with his name on the script and has authorial control. He can do whatever he wants as far as deciding where the story goes. But it does not reflect well on him to dismiss the perspective of a woman in the room over the writing of a women's issue, especially considering his history of arguably sexist writing in this show.

Edited December 9, 2014 by crashboom

[Artsda]

Don't bite the hands that feed you, it's not up to her to fight Sorkin in the room of writers or attack them on twitter afterword. She's made herself look bad and harm her own career. She'll now be the one other shows won't be able to trust to have in the writers room.

[Boundary]

 He can do whatever he wants as far as deciding where the story goes. But it does not reflect well on him to dismiss the perspective of a woman in the room over the writing of a women's issue, especially considering his history of arguably sexist writing in this show.

 

She's not the only source of female perspective on the show, the show had been going on for two years before she joined. Presumably there're other female writers on the show. Besides, the female perspective is not limited to the writers' room. Emily Mortimer, Olivia Munn, Jane Fonda and other actresses can have input in the lead up to and during filming. Oh, and some of the sexist writing is deliberate (i.e. Jim) and has been addressed on the show itself.

[Mars477]

There may be one or two female writers (although apparently the writers room is uncharistically small, and Sorkin takes point on almost everything).

So yeah, this shit is all in Sorkin's hands. I mean, you don't seriously believe such a Great Man would take advice from a silly woman, right?

Edited December 9, 2014 by Mars477

[madam magpie]

A silly woman? Definitely not. Maybe a smart woman, though.

[crashboom]

 

Besides, the female perspective is not limited to the writers' room. Emily Mortimer, Olivia Munn, Jane Fonda and other actresses can have input in the lead up to and during filming.

I don't think it is all that common for cast members of any show to be collaborative with the writing staff, with a few exceptions (Parks & Rec, The Office come to mind, since those series allow for an element of improvisation). Sorkin especially does not come across as the kind of show runner who is receptive to much nput from anyone. That's been pretty well established in his past, not just with this show but others. He is known for being obsessive over creative control and wanting only his name on scripts. He does not want to give others credit unless he has to.

 

 

She's made herself look bad and harm her own career. She'll now be the one other shows won't be able to trust to have in the writers room.

Considering Sorkin's reputation in the industry (brilliant, but difficult to work with), I don't believe she has done her career much harm. If she has, she probably doesn't care. It's tough for women writers in male-dominated rooms (not just Sorkin's) so I think it's a good thing for people like her to be vocal about their experiences. Maybe she felt morally obligated to share what happened (and make it clear she was distancing herself from the storyline and did not approve), damn the consequences.

[madam magpie]

I don't think it is all that common for cast members of any show to be collaborative with the writing staff, with a few exceptions

 

It's not. You're right that most of the time the cast has very little input about the dialogue or story, same with junior writers. But I'd guess they still have an opinion. I just don't believe they never thought or talked about it at all. Emily Mortimer once (very tactfully) said that she thought the complaints about sexist portrayals of women on the show were untrue, so they may say something at some point. But with the exception of Jane Fonda who's a bit of a loud mouth (and I love her), Olivia Munn and Emily Mortimer are generally pretty classy. They may just say nothing, which is fine...I'm just curious.

 

But as far as what this woman said, which may or may not be true (I have no idea), I do negatively judge anyone who bashes on Twitter but won't file a formal complaint. If Aaron Sorkin is so bad that we need to discuss his overbearing sexism in the workplace, take it up with HR, HBO, or the police. Otherwise, it's petty and a clear attempt to discredit someone in a public forum.

[HollaMcDollar]

It's not. You're right that most of the time the cast has very little input about the dialogue or story, same with junior writers. But I'd guess they still have an opinion. I just don't believe they never thought or talked about it at all. Emily Mortimer once (very tactfully) said that she thought the complaints about sexist portrayals of women on the show were untrue, so they may say something at some point. But with the exception of Jane Fonda who's a bit of a loud mouth (and I love her), Olivia Munn and Emily Mortimer are generally pretty classy. They may just say nothing, which is fine...I'm just curious.

 

But as far as what this woman said, which may or may not be true (I have no idea), I do negatively judge anyone who bashes on Twitter but won't file a formal complaint. If Aaron Sorkin is so bad that we need to discuss his overbearing sexism in the workplace, take it up with HR, HBO, or the police. Otherwise, it's petty and a clear attempt to discredit someone in a public forum.

It has all the hallmarks of someone looking for their 15 minutes of fame. Just my opinion.

[crashboom]

 

If Aaron Sorkin is so bad that we need to discuss his overbearing sexism in the workplace, take it up with HR, HBO, or the police. Otherwise, it's petty and a clear attempt to discredit someone in a public forum.

Really now? Why on earth would she even think about contacting the police. Sexism in the workplace is not, actually, illegal. 

 

What would HBO even care? It's the last season of the show, Sorkin is at the top of the chain, they're not going to reprimand him over an argument.

 

Alena did not allege "overbearing sexism". She described the feeling of getting drowned out when she tried to speak up about a storyline and yelled at for questioning him, and indicated she felt Sorkin had pegged her in a role she did not appreciate. Given Sorkin's history of misrepresenting conflicts with his writing staff (Rick Cleveland anyone?), personally I don't trust his take on what happened. 

[madam magpie]

Really now? Why on earth would she even think about contacting the police. Sexism in the workplace is not, actually, illegal.

 

If she's so victimized that she needs to reveal it to the world (to prevent Aaron Sorkin from doing this again?), she must feel harrassed; it must have been overbearing. Surely no one would start a Twitter war over a minor issue, right? Her friend said she was nearly fired and Sorkin was screaming at her over a story about a woman's rape. A superior creating an intimidating and hostile work environment is definitely a crime, so, yes, go to HR at HBO or the police if HBO blows you off. She could have filed a complaint at the time, and she may be able to file one retroactively. If she doesn't feel that way, though, if her boss is just an asshole or a micromanager or a bit of an egomaniac, act like a grown-up, don't hide behind the social media mob, be professional, and move on. Life is tough. Bosses are sometimes assholes. Welcome to the real world. Complaining about an asshole boss and tossing in an argument about "gender" as a reason you're complaining is a snide way of putting a sexist mark on someone. It's completely unprofessional, but I guess that doesn't matter really, right? As long as she calls herself the victim and her story gets told.

[Mars477]

It has all the hallmarks of someone looking for their 15 minutes of fame. Just my opinion.

How delightfully meta.

[HollaMcDollar]

Really now? Why on earth would she even think about contacting the police. Sexism in the workplace is not, actually, illegal.

Discrimination based on sex/gender is ABSOLUTELY against the law (especially in CA) and nothing would've stopped her from filing complaint with California's state board and the EEOC. Furthermore, she could have contacted a lawyer and filed a lawsuit – it would've been taken on a contingency fee and she wouldn't have to pay a dime.

How delightfully meta.

I'm sorry, could you explain what your mean? I'm not up on the latest lingo....

Edited December 9, 2014 by HollaMcDollar

[LotusFlower]

Of course Sorkin at the end of the day is the one with his name on the script and has authorial control. He can do whatever he wants as far as deciding where the story goes. But it does not reflect well on him to dismiss the perspective of a woman in the room over the writing of a women's issue, especially considering his history of arguably sexist writing in this show.

This stood out to me as well - the irony of this real-life spat mirroring the controversy from the episode. Aaron Sorkin/Don allowing the female writer/Mary to have her say, because he always allows female characters (and writers?) to have a strong voice, but at the end of the day, the man is "right," the man has final say, and worse, the man stands on moral ground. Sorkin's statement essentially put the writer "in her place," and again, worse, shamed her. How dare she break the code! Similar to Mary - how dare she go outside the legal system? We (men) must show her how it's done. What's right, and appropriate, and moral.

[Artsda]

 

Considering Sorkin's reputation in the industry (brilliant, but difficult to work with), I don't believe she has done her career much harm. If she has, she probably doesn't care. It's tough for women writers in male-dominated rooms (not just Sorkin's) so I think it's a good thing for people like her to be vocal about their experiences. Maybe she felt morally obligated to share what happened (and make it clear she was distancing herself from the storyline and did not approve), damn the consequences.

 

Biting the hands that feed you and turning on the writers, does do harm. Look at Katherine Heigl, what she said about the writing on Grey's Anatomy was true. She wasn't wrong, the writing was not deserving of any praise. Her character was have dead ghost sex as a cancer symptom. Still saying it out loud to the press, didn't do her any favors and just made her look back to her peers, media and industry. 

[pennben]

She didn't report an issue to the authorities....so these things only "allegedly" happened.  Even though he responded to her outside of whatever proper authortiy there should be:  remember, these are just allegations because there wasn't a conviction.  Aaron is right again. Also, in this context, she was wrong to say anything.  And further....men know best.  "No crime: No Wrongdoing"!!!!

 

And she violated him.  Of course.

Edited December 10, 2014 by pennben

[CaughtOnTape]

He's allowed to defend himself from her accusations.

 

And to be honest, if we're using past behavior to decide who's right in the situation, only one of them threw a big baby fit publically on Twitter.  While I've heard of Sorkin being overbearing in the writing room, I've never personally seen it so I can't say whether I believe it.  On the other hand, I witnessed Alena Smith stomp her feet like a 6 year old to demand attention for being wronged.

[Artsda]

Olivia Munn defends Aaron Sorkin's portrayal of campus rape plot on 'The Newsroom'

[Boundary]

From the episode thread: Olivia Munn has spoken out: “It should have been more poignant and more interesting, and not about her,”

[romantic idiot]

He's allowed to defend himself from her accusations.

 

And to be honest, if we're using past behavior to decide who's right in the situation, only one of them threw a big baby fit publically on Twitter.  

 

No, we've just been seeing him work out his issues though S60 and now The Newsroom. YMMV of course. 

[Skeeter22]

He's allowed to defend himself from her accusations.

 

And to be honest, if we're using past behavior to decide who's right in the situation, only one of them threw a big baby fit publically on Twitter.  While I've heard of Sorkin being overbearing in the writing room, I've never personally seen it so I can't say whether I believe it.  On the other hand, I witnessed Alena Smith stomp her feet like a 6 year old to demand attention for being wronged.

Didn't Sorkin quit the internet after throwing multiple "big baby fits" on TWOP?

Frankly, I'm glad Sorkin got called out. As Jian Ghomeshi and Bill Cosby prove, women have to turn to the media or the internet to get something done because when they go to HR or the police, they get ignored or thrown under the bus. How much do you want to bet that if Alena Smith hadn't publicly disavowed the episode, Sorkin would have defended the story by saying there was a woman in the writing room?

She didn't accuse him of a crime, she basically said he had a temper tantrum and threw her out because she questioned him.

[Mars477]

If anything, its Sorkin who threw the "big baby fit", going off on how his poor feelings were hurt, not Smith.

Smith was actually pretty measured in her original tweets. She thought that the way a subplot was written would come off very poorly, said so, and was ejected from the room because of it. And of course, she was completely right about how that subplot would be received.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Mars477

[Inquisitionist]

Didn't Sorkin quit the internet after throwing multiple "big baby fits" on TWOP?

 

By some accounts, yes.

[FinnishViewer]

I don't know how familiar Ken Levine is to you guys, but he worked on M.A.S.H, Cheers, Roseanne, Frasier, just to name a few. Here's what he had to say about the 'violating the confidentiality of the writers' room' part.

 

http://kenlevine.blogspot.fi/2014/12/my-thoughts-on-recent-aaron-sorkin.html

[pennben]

I love his blog, but he takes such joy in trashing Roseanne.  And then telling more stories about her relationship with the writers.  He also seems to tell a lot of stories out of school from a writer's room, but decided that this story should be kept inhouse.   I'm not sure he should be telling anyone to "shush".

Edited December 12, 2014 by pennben

[Cramps]

Tweeting that wasn't the smartest move career wise, but Sorkin has probably pissed off/annoyed enough writers that she might be okay.

Loved finally getting to read the whole story of Sorkin and TVWOP after all these years. Fascinating!

[CaughtOnTape]

Just wanted to point out, I've still never personally seen Sorkin do anything.

 

I have personally, meaning SHE tweeted from HER account using HER words, seen her throw a "big baby fit".

 

None of these links proves anything other than people have WAY too much time on their hands and enjoy lots and lots of drama in their lives.

[madam magpie]

This stood out to me as well - the irony of this real-life spat mirroring the controversy from the episode. Aaron Sorkin/Don allowing the female writer/Mary to have her say, because he always allows female characters (and writers?) to have a strong voice, but at the end of the day, the man is "right," the man has final say, and worse, the man stands on moral ground. Sorkin's statement essentially put the writer "in her place," and again, worse, shamed her. How dare she break the code! Similar to Mary - how dare she go outside the legal system? We (men) must show her how it's done. What's right, and appropriate, and moral.

Not really, though. The man is the show runner. The story is the one he wants to tell, so he does get the final say. That's all that happened here. If Alena Smith wants to have the final say, she needs to pitch and lead her own show. Then the story will be the one she wants to tell. I don't think calling out her former boss on Twitter is the way to accomplish that. (I'd be fired if I did that, and my boss is a woman.) Even if everything she and her friend say is true, I don't see that Aaron Sorkin abused her. He may be a micromanager. He may even be an asshole; I have no idea. I've never worked with or met him. But in this situation, she was an employee, hired to contribute to creating a show that told the story he wanted to tell. Because she can now take to a public forum and air her grievance about her boss not doing what she wanted, the issue becomes about something else entirely, which is why I have no respect for that approach. I'd also like to know what her goal was. Mary had an identifiable and admirable goal, even if some of us think the execution was dangerous. I see no admirable goal here.

Edited December 12, 2014 by madam magpie

[LotusFlower]

Just wanted to point out, I've still never personally seen Sorkin do anything.

 

I have personally, meaning SHE tweeted from HER account using HER words, seen her throw a "big baby fit".

 

None of these links proves anything other than people have WAY too much time on their hands and enjoy lots and lots of drama in their lives.

The links show Sorkin has thrown quite a few "hissy fits," if that's what we're calling online complaints. But even if you choose not to believe them, at the very least, his comments degrading his fellow writer Rick Cleveland went out under his name.

Not really, though. The man is the show runner. The story is the one he wants to tell, so he does get the final say. That's all that happened here. If Alena Smith wants to have the final say, she needs to pitch and lead her own show. Then the story will be the one she wants to tell. I don't think calling out her former boss on Twitter is the way to accomplish that. (I'd be fired if I did that, and my boss is a woman.) Even if everything she and her friend say is true, I don't see that Aaron Sorkin abused her. He may be a micromanager. He may even be an asshole; I have no idea. I've never worked with or met him. But in this situation, she was an employee, hired to contribute to creating a show that told the story he wanted to tell. Because she can now take to a public forum and air her grievance about her boss not doing what she wanted, the issue becomes about something else entirely, which is why I have no respect for that approach. I'd also like to know what her goal was. Mary had an identifiable and admirable goal, even if some of us think the execution was dangerous. I see no admirable goal here.

I agree with a lot of this. (I addressed some of this, but I posted in the wrong thread, so my post was deleted). I'm not defending her, per se. I certainly understand why people are questioning her tweet and her motives, esp. since Sorkin very successfully turned the subject matter around (it's why we're talking about professional conduct and writer's room confidentiality instead of the rape storyline). To me, what makes Sorkin's response to Ms. Smith's tweet so interesting and so maddening is how tone-deaf he seems to be to the controversy over the storyline - he either didn't understand or care that his "I know better than you, and I'm the boss" comment was an almost exact parallel to Don's "I know better than you, and I'm calling the shots" scene with the rape victim.

[morgankobi]

From the episode thread:

To me, it's so obvious it's almost comical how Aaron Sorkin (a powerful man) tells Ms Smith (a female subordinate) to stay in her place, to "take a seat," to not fight the system (kicking her out of the writer's room when she objected to the direction of the plot, publicly shaming her for breaking confidentiality).

From what I've read, I can easily infer that he would do the exact same to a male subordinate. 

She can publicly shame him, but he can't do the same?

[madam magpie]

I agree with a lot of this. (I addressed some of this, but I posted in the wrong thread, so my post was deleted). I'm not defending her, per se. I certainly understand why people are questioning her tweet and her motives, esp. since Sorkin very successfully turned the subject matter around (it's why we're talking about professional conduct and writer's room confidentiality instead of the rape storyline). To me, what makes Sorkin's response to Ms. Smith's tweet so interesting and so maddening is how tone-deaf he seems to be to the controversy over the storyline - he either didn't understand or care that his "I know better than you, and I'm the boss" comment was an almost exact parallel to Don's "I know better than you, and I'm calling the shots" scene with the rape victim.

Maybe, or maybe he's not zeroing in on it because that's not what's on his mind. My personal opinion is that the read that says Don is the great white woman-rescuer is the audience's agenda; it was never Aaron Sorkin's or the show's. I think the point of the Don/Mary story was about the falsely accused and how hard it is to find justice for all kinds of victims, not the rape specifically. There doesn't seem to me to be any doubt that Mary was telling the truth, and I see the rape just as the frame. So I don't think Sorkin's goal was to say with the rape storyline that Don knew better than Mary and was calling the shots. And I'm not the only one who thinks that; neither side is a universal truth. I also work with writers who throw fits when stories don't go their way all the time and have seen them be told, sometimes by me, to "take a walk" or "cool off." So I can absolutely see how Sorkin could view this situation through that lens. I don't know if he does; I have no idea what he thinks. I only know what he and the others involved tell me. His story sounds reasonable; hers looks unprofessional and like every temperamental writer I've ever met. Plus, to be totally honest, if we're picking celebrities whom we don't know at all to believe, the person I'm going to side with here is Olivia Munn.

Edited December 13, 2014 by madam magpie

[LotusFlower]

I think the point of the Don/Mary story was about the falsely accused and how hard it is to find justice for all kinds of victims, not the rape specifically. There doesn't seem to me to be any doubt that Mary was telling the truth, and I see the rape just as the frame.

Just FYI - this is where you veer from Sorkin's POV, as he pointed out that Mary was not a rape victim, but rather an alleged rape victim. So he's casting doubts on her story, which makes it more a he said/she said thing (which I believe is how you interpreted the storyline, if I'm reading you accurately). For me, this is difficult to stomach, especially in light of current events like the Cosby scandal, where victim after victim has come forward years later, saying that they didn't come forward at the time because who would believe their word over a popular and powerful celebrity like Bill Cosby?

[LotusFlower]

From what I've read, I can easily infer that he would do the exact same to a male subordinate.

She can publicly shame him, but he can't do the same?

Yes, he can, and he did. As he's done in the past. Like I wrote earlier, I'm not arguing right or wrong (in terms of the appropriateness of the tweets or statements). What was interesting to me was the perception of his response to the female writer mirroring the rape storyline controversy. There was a lot of immediate buzz to this episode, and in its wake, he seemed to duplicate it, in real life.

Edited December 13, 2014 by LotusFlower

[madam magpie]

Just FYI - this is where you veer from Sorkin's POV, as he pointed out that Mary was not a rape victim, but rather an alleged rape victim. So he's casting doubts on her story, which makes it more a he said/she said thing (which I believe is how you interpreted the storyline, if I'm reading you accurately). For me, this is difficult to stomach, especially in light of current events like the Cosby scandal, where victim after victim has come forward years later, saying that they didn't come forward at the time because who would believe their word over a popular and powerful celebrity like Bill Cosby?

I wish he hadn't said that too, mainly because it sounds silly: he wrote it, right? He knows if it did or didn't happen. But I think he's just using the lingo there. This is a guy who writes a show about journalists as crusaders for all that's right in the world. They'd say "alleged," so he does too. I watched the episode again, and I dare anyone to find evidence in the story that shows the audience that it should doubt what Mary says happened. It's not there. So a lingo-tinged response to a disgruntled writer giving him shit on Twitter? I'll let that go.

I think too that it's not Aaron Sorkin's responsibility to say all the right things in the wake of Bill Cosby being accused of doing awful things. Sorkin is Sorkin. The fact that Bill Cosby is probably a lying, creepy, woman-drugging rapist, possibly even more so than we know about, has nothing to do with him. Aaron Sorkin didn't rape or abuse anyone. He tossed a (maybe) insubordinate writer out of a meeting and wrote a segment of a TV show where he used the issue of rape to tell a story. I just don't feel like he owes us a response that covers the awful things other people do. That's putting way too much on one guy. The fact that this episode and the RS retraction and the Cosby story all came out at around the same time is an absolutely insane coincidence. But the responsibility to make sense of it or take a side isn't on Aaron Sorkin, I don't think.

[LotusFlower]

I think too that it's not Aaron Sorkin's responsibility to say all the right things in the wake of Bill Cosby being accused of doing awful things. Sorkin is Sorkin. The fact that Bill Cosby is probably a lying, creepy, woman-drugging rapist, possibly even more so than we know about, has nothing to do with him. Aaron Sorkin didn't rape or abuse anyone. He tossed a (maybe) insubordinate writer out of a meeting and wrote a segment of a TV show where he used the issue of rape to tell a story. I just don't feel like he owes us a response that covers the awful things other people do. That's putting way too much on one guy. The fact that this episode and the RS retraction and the Cosby story all came out at around the same time is an absolutely insane coincidence. But the responsibility to make sense of it or take a side isn't on Aaron Sorkin, I don't think.

I agree with this. But it's Aaron Sorkin (and here I mean this in a complimentary sense). The reason I became a fan of his in the first place was because of stories like A Few Good Men and The West Wing - stories with a social conscience (ok, a liberal bent!). If this show was on Fox, written by the folks that wrote the very gung-ho 24, I'd probably say "figures." I probably speak for a lot of people when I say I have a love/hate thing with Sorkin, so where other episodes may have hit the love button for me, this one didn't. You're right that this episode airing at the same time as all these scandals unfolding is a very weird coincidence, and he holds no responsibility to take a certain side. He just usually does (and isn't that the premise of "Newsnight?"), and it's usually one I'm aligned with. And let's face it, the topic is such a sensitive one, and I think that goes to why it's gotten under the skin of so many.

[madam magpie]

I agree with this. But it's Aaron Sorkin (and here I mean this in a complimentary sense). The reason I became a fan of his in the first place was because of stories like A Few Good Men and The West Wing - stories with a social conscience (ok, a liberal bent!). If this show was on Fox, written by the folks that wrote the very gung-ho 24, I'd probably say "figures." I probably speak for a lot of people when I say I have a love/hate thing with Sorkin, so where other episodes may have hit the love button for me, this one didn't. You're right that this episode airing at the same time as all these scandals unfolding is a very weird coincidence, and he holds no responsibility to take a certain side. He just usually does (and isn't that the premise of "Newsnight?"), and it's usually one I'm aligned with. And let's face it, the topic is such a sensitive one, and I think that goes to why it's gotten under the skin of so many.

I get it. I had almost no opinion of Aaron Sorkin before this show other than #1) he wrote that Studio 60 show I liked that got canceled too early, and #2) he used to go out with Kristen Chenoweth, whom I adore, so good taste for him. What drew me to The Newsroom is that it's very in-your-face about topical issues with a liberal, but moderate and not insane-liberal, bias. And it presents women just as people equal to the men around them, not madonnas or whores. It's like he sees things as I want them to be and then writes it into this show. That's one reason I like this story in particular so much; it's exactly what I think but that many people are too scared to say because it questions something sacrosanct in our culture. I really dig that kind of story. But I can also understand, given the circumstances, wanting him to say SOMETHING other than a defense of his choices, especially if he's a writer who matters to you on a topic that also matters. I wonder if he's gun shy? He gets so much crap, maybe he doesn't want to get involved. I don't know. But I get it.