Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[kili]

Regina’s happiness is NO ONE’S responsibility except Regina’s

 

This concept is one of the essential themes of this show. Our heros aren't heros simply because they save lives, they are heros because they are responsible for their own happiness. They have the ability to make lemons out of lemonade and to move on. Time and time again on this show, the villains are the ones that keep saying "If only such-and-such hadn't happened, I'd be happy and not on my current destructive path."  It is clinging to the unhappiness that doesn't allow them to live in the present and enjoy all that is on offer to them. They turn away from happiness (Rumple from Bae/Belle, Regina from Robin/Snow in the Enchanted Forrest, Cora from Regina, Hook from a life of Good Form) because they feel the need to wallow in the past. If they had only followed Charming's advice about finding the "good things" in their lives, they would have been happy long ago.

 

Henry, Snow and Emma taking responsibility for finding Regina's happy ending is just enabling her. She has to shake it off and find happiness herself. She'll reject happiness until she realizes that it is her job to find it herself. It's like trying to get somebody else to quit smoking or go on a diet - they have to want to do it themselves.  A short while ago, Regina was claiming that Henry was her everything and she wouldn't be happy without him. She gets him back and she is still unhappy about something else. Her goal post was moved. It will always move until she wants to be happy and recognizes that bad things happen to everybody.

 

If Snow/Charming can find happiness despite the crapfest that is their life, surely anybody can.  And Emma has to stop running from possible happiness and learn to embrace the happy moments (she needs to learn that she too deserves them).  Rumple is slowly getting there. Hook is part way there (he let go of Milah and revenge), but he needs to stop making Emma his whole world because that is a recipe for disaster.

 

I'm not happy that Emma promises to help Regina find her happy ending (in 4x01). She should have given her the Charming speech from the episode where she was avoiding lunching with Neal. "Yep, life sucks, but you have to find your happy moments". Motivate, don't enable (and would be closer to what Anna was trying to do with Elsa in the "Do You Want to Build a Snowman" scene they are trying to parallel).

Edited September 24, 2014 by kili

[ShadowFacts]

Eddy said that destroying Regina's happiness doesn't sit well with Emma and they'll be exploring that over a few episodes.  That sounds like more than the first one, and it also sounds like Snowy behavior to me.  But yes, it is only one bit off of one interview so maybe it won't be so unpalatable as it seems. 

[Stuffy]

Some interviewer needs to straight up ask if we'll ever see Regina finally get an understanding about how difficult Emma's childhood was because of her.  They ask about Emma's past.  They ask about Emma's relationships. They ask if Emma's feeling bad about bringing Marian back, but what about the mess that Emma can be emotionally due to Regina's past actions?

 

I want Regina to see just what her actions have done to someone she actually likes (admires? tolerates? no idea how you'd describe their association) and not some random villager or someone she wanted revenge against.  I don't need anymore poor pitiful "no regrets" Regina. I need one that gets the harm she's done to at least one person.

 

Maybe I can stop fast forwarding past the non-Emma Regina scenes.  If Emma wasn't my favorite, I wouldn't watch those.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Stuffy

[angelwoody]

My comment earlier wasn't actually a criticism of Emma, or of Emma apparently feeling bad about the Regina situation.  I'm just disturbed by the way the writers appear to be framing this scenario.  "Destroyer of happiness."  I am hard pressed to think of another show where the saving of an innocent life is framed in such a negative and disturbing way.  But then again, this show seems to portray most things through the lens of "how does this affect Regina" - hence the fun house mirror distortions of what would generally be considered "good."   

[regularlyleaded]

And yes, Regina is hardly a good person but she isn't the Evil Queen anymore. Or did I waste my time watching season 3? (Which yes, at times, is debatable) She joined forces with the good guys in Neverland to save Henry. She helped rid the town of Zelena and showed her mercy by not killing her. So why are we all against Regina but swooning all over Hook [...]

Two words: Self-awareness and remorse. Hook's got it. Regina don't.

 

Hook knows that he's done terrible things and he feels bad about it. He feels guilty! *gasp* Imagine that. Perhaps we gloss over that because it's so rare on this show and so little time is spent on anyone but Regina, but nevertheless it happened. And no one went and did this for him. Hook figured this out on his own, as it should be.

 

But as for Regina, well, right now, the only thing keeping Regina from jumping back into her killer corset (pun intended, sue me) and murdering everyone is that she's kinda, sorta, maybe thinking that using murder as a means for getting her happiness isn't working. Even though she's killed hundreds (if not more) with little change in her happiness factor, she's finally cottoning on to, "Hmmm, perhaps I should try something else". And that's a huge problem because nowhere in her twisted little mind is there any self-awareness that what she did was wrong, and in fact, she DOESN'T  REGRET ANYTHING SHE DID. Nowhere in her self-involved, egotistical, shriveled heart has she recognized that what she did wasn't just wrong, it was immoral, unethical, and heinous. She doesn't feel bad about any of it except that, strangely, people don't seem to like her for it. That's the extent of her "self-awareness": being a murderer doesn't make you popular with people. She doesn't feel bad that she's killed thousands. Nope, she's all glum that she's not as loved and doesn't have the happy ending Snow seems to have gotten. And all that doesn't make Regina any better than her Evil Queen persona. If anything it's like The Evil Queen is having a moment to think. I don't know that I count one year without killing anyone as Regina hanging up her Evil Queen corset. 

 

(BTW - Alas, I'm sorry to say that we all wasted our time watching season 3)

Edited September 24, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[angelwoody]

And yes, Regina is hardly a good person but she isn't the Evil Queen anymore. Or did I waste my time watching season 3? (Which yes, at times, is debatable) She joined forces with the good guys in Neverland to save Henry. She helped rid the town of Zelena and showed her mercy by not killing her. So why are we all against Regina but swooning all over Hook, a pirate who we saw kill someone in the missing year by putting his own wants before helping someone else? 

For me, the difference is that Hook reached a point where he decided that he did not like the man he was.  You could debate when exactly the moment was - and I think most would agree that Emma was the catalyst (even before he fell in love with her I think he was taken with her integrity and courage and it held a mirror up to him and he did not like what he saw).  From that moment on, he made baby steps towards becoming a better man.  No one lauded him for it (or in some cases even noticed) nor did he ask them to.  It was incremental and not without hiccups, but it was steadily moving him away from his villainous past.  The other big thing for me, is in the finale when he sees his past self, there is no real...  fondness, wistfulness or bragging about the man he was.  He seems uncomfortable and a little ashamed to have Emma seeing him for the man he was.  He has shown guilt, remorse, shame and has tried to make amends when he could.  He also isn't running around crowing about how he's changed and demanding he get his happy ending.  I would bet he still doesn't see himself as a hero or deserving of good things.

[Rumsy4]

 

And yes, Regina is hardly a good person but she isn't the Evil Queen anymore.

 

Just because Regina, Hook, and Rumple are are villains on different stages of reformation (or not) doesn't mean our reaction to the three characters comes in a package deal. And really, it's not been 28 years since Regina has been Evil Queen. Just a year ago, she was about to destroy the whole town using the failsafe. Sure, she is taking steps to try and be good, but that seems to be full of setbacks and black-slides when things don't go her way. For example, in the EF, she said her new life goal was to destroy Zelena. And yeah--she spared her in the end, but that's because she was glowing with self-righteousness from having defeated her with Light Magic, and she still threatened to kill Zelena if she stepped out of line. From the spoilers, we can see that she almost conjured up a fireball when Marian called her a monster, and immediately turns Sydney back into her personal slave and send him back into her mirror so he can help her get her Happy Ending by tricking the author of the Storybook. 

 

And maybe it's way to early to judge the Emma/Regina dynamic in S4, but we are in the spoiler thread reading and speculating about spoilers. From all the hints we have got so far, it does seem like Emma's going to be spending a sizable chunk acting as Anna towards Regina's Elsa. It bothers me a lot that Emma's spending any time coddling Regina, but YMMV. ;-)

[Jean]

 

I think it's still too early to call what will become of this.

 

Show history canon (aka St. Victim Woegina fanfiction) has shown us what happens when anyone gets within 10 miles of that soul sucker. We already have the blueprint for this story, it's known as the Happiness Destroyer Sr. or simply Snow. The fact is no character has ever benefitted from being near Woegina. She is the black hole where every character goes to die, both literally and metaphorically.

 

It's also a fact that A&E don't see the story as Emma being a good guy and wants to help Woegina. They see it and frame it as Emma fucked up and ruined Woegina's life, just like her momma did. I'm sorry to say but the good guy stuff sounds like fanwank to me. That's not show canon. It might look benign to start with but so did Snow/Woegina in S1. That was a balanced story and then it quickly descended straight into Woegina fanfiction hell. There's no way I believe they like the character Emma better than Snow either.

 

The premiere tells me that what they really wanted to do was get Elsa as another prop for their Woegina fanfiction. They just couldn't do it with a real story but they're going to find all sorts of ways to squeeze that in there. Betting my house that the story Disney approved was the Emma/Elsa magic one, which they can't do with their saint.

[sharky]

 

And maybe it's way to early to judge the Emma/Regina dynamic in S4, but we are in the spoiler thread reading and speculating about spoilers. From all the hints we have got so far, it does seem like Emma's going to be spending a sizable chunk acting as Anna towards Regina's Elsa. It bothers me a lot that Emma's spending any time coddling Regina, but YMMV. ;-)

I can totally see that for the first episode or so and what has been said by Adam and Eddy -- seriously, would we even be having this discussion if it weren't for those two nerds? But I think we've seen from the footage shot yesterday that perhaps it will also be the other way around at some point with Emma being Elsa to Regina's Anna perhaps? And of course add in the probability that Elsa herself will be Emma's Anna. Seriously, this Frozen stuff is getting confusing.

 

(BTW - Alas, I'm sorry to say that we all wasted our time watching season 3)

I'm in the middle of a season 3B rewatch, which is probably why I'm also feeling these things about Regina. Some of it was great and inspired, but some of it was just ... Ugh. I'm hoping we can move on from Regina's past this season so I don't have to see anymore of Cora's backstory or Zelena's scenery chewing. Can we at least all agree on that? ;)

[regularlyleaded]

Ugh. I'm hoping we can move on from Regina's past this season so I don't have to see anymore of Cora's backstory or Zelena's scenery chewing. Can we at least all agree on that? ;)

No more of Cora's revisionist history or Zelena's pointless and self-defeating Mwhuahahaha-ing? Yes, at the very least, I can definitely agree to that. :)

[Jean]

Here's another interview with no real new info.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/once-a-time-stars-frozen-734906

 

 

"Having Anna, Elsa and the world of Frozen come into ours has really opened [up] story lines and given us opportunities to explore different parts of our characters and stories we never would have had without them," Jennifer Morrison

But this part cracks me up. JMo just straight up says what we've all been thinking. We wouldn't be getting all this Emma stuff if it wasn't for Elsa and Frozen.

 

I don't buy A&E's stuff about friends. If it was really about friendships they wouldn't have thrown away Red/Snow, the best friendship on this show. They also wouldn't have given Anna as Charming's friend and Elsa's as Emma's since those 2 are gone soon.

[Rumsy4]

 

 

But this part cracks me up. JMo just straight up says what we've all been thinking. We wouldn't be getting all this Emma stuff if it wasn't for Elsa and Frozen.

 

Duh... ;-) They are overtly paralleling Elsa's out-of-control ice-powers with Emma having out-of-control magic out of nowhere. But the metaphorical parallel seems to be Regina as Elsa, and Emma as Anna, with both Emma and Anna sort-of neglecting their love-interests for the sake of Regina/Elsa. They appear to have literally worked the plot of 4A from Frozen, and mixed it with the Hans Anderson Snow Queen tale. Not sure where that will fit in yet.

 

So, with Rumple switching back the original Dagger, how is Belle is going to find out about the deception? Will he leave the fake dagger lying around somewhere, and Henry or Hook find it and make the connection? Or will Rumple get caught out in conversation when Belle inadvertently uses the real Dagger, and asks him to recount how Zelena died? 

Edited September 24, 2014 by Rumsy4

[regularlyleaded]

So, with Rumple switching back the original Dagger, how is Belle is going to find out about the deception? Will he leave the fake dagger lying around somewhere, and Henry or Hook find it and make the connection? Or will Rumple get caught out in conversation when Belle inadvertently uses the real Dagger, and asks him to recount how Zelena died?

Or, will it be like Regina's murder of Graham? Never mentioned again and completely swept under the rug like it never happened and doesn't matter.

[Rumsy4]

Or, will it be like Regina's murder of Graham? Never mentioned again and completely swept under the rug like it never happened and doesn't matter.

I'm starting to wonder too. Unless Zelena's pendant comes back into play, and it is Regina who outs him.

[KingOfHearts]

 

So, with Rumple switching back the original Dagger, how is Belle is going to find out about the deception?

 

I've heard he enchants the dagger with some kind of locator so he can track Belle. The dagger and Zelena will probably just be icing on the cake for a bigger deception later down the road, otherwise they wouldn't have resolved it so quickly. Heaven knows what the whole sorcerer's hat thing is about. It could be something very devious for all we know.

Edited September 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

I think the dagger lie HAS to come out at some point. Rumpel isn't Regina--they don't pretend the shitty things he did never happened, and that's just way too massive a thing to never come out. But, I do think they'll wait on the dagger lie and it will be tied into something bigger for Rumbelle that, combined with the dagger stuff, will make Belle walk (even if we all know it's only temporary).

[patchwork]

I think the writers decided against the dagger plotline, and dealing with any Rumbelle fallout, over the summer which is why we get the switch in episode 1. They've come up with something else for Rumps and Belle has a separate storyline or is it one episode with a fairyback? I don't remember.  

 

The dagger felt like a contrived way to bring up Rumpbelle's issues but it would have at least brought them up. I'm almost sorry it's unlikely to be addressed but I'm not a big fan of the couple or Belle herself. 

Edited September 24, 2014 by patchwork

[sharky]

 

mixed it with the Hans Anderson Snow Queen tale. Not sure where that will fit in yet.

You know, this is kind of bugging me. We have talked circles around Elsa, Anna, Regina and Emma, and there has been NO mention of Elizabeth Mitchell. She hadn't receiving any kind of press compared to the Frozen cast, which seems understandable. But she also wasn't at the premiere party and either no one has asked or Adam and Eddy haven't answered any questions about her. And yet, she's been there since they were filming episode 2 or something, correct? So what the hell is going on with that character? For as much as we're total spoiler fans, how do we still not know much of anything about her?

Edited September 24, 2014 by sharky

[YaddaYadda]

Belle is pretty dim.  Even if someone gives her proof on video of something bad Rumple did, she'll just say that he has a twin running about town and go on about her business of the day.  I'm sure she thinks him giving her a dagger as an engagement ring is the most romantic thing ever.

 

ETA - I've been wondering the same thing myself about EM's character especially since the Snow Queen is supposed to be the big bad.  Now they've been filming in studio a lot so there's clearly a lot that we don't know, but still. 

Edited September 24, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

 

For as much as we're total spoiler fans, how do we still not know much of anything about her?

Her role (besides Snow Queen) is probably top secret. In fact, it's probably the missing puzzle piece to explain all the Frozen stuff. I bet she'll be the big "reveal" that will climax the half-season, sort of like Daddy Pan or Zelena's time travel plot. (But hopefully much better.)

 

 

Belle is pretty dim.  Even if someone gives her proof on video of something bad Rumple did, she'll just say that he has a twin running about town and go on about her business of the day.  I'm sure she thinks him giving her a dagger as an engagement ring is the most romantic thing ever.

 

This is probably why they're holding out on the deception stuff. There's probably something bigger down the road that will force an event that holds much more weight than a temporary walk-out. That's what I'm hoping, anyway. 

Edited September 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Stuffy]

Well, in theory, this should be Robin, no? Regina rejected her fairy dust soulmate, Robin, and he, instead of going on a murderous rampage, met, fell in love and found happiness with Marian. Those years of heartache that Robin suffered when Marian died are Regina's fault. And doubly so because first, Regina was apparently Robin's "happy ending" to begin with and she rejected that, and second when she killed the woman Robin was able to find his happiness with. But has any of this entered Regina's mind? No, of course not. Because it's all about her. Regina doesn't see that she was the one that caused Robin's pain, a person she supposedly loves (let alone caused Marian's). No, no, according to the spoilers, all Regina is thinking about is "Why meeeee! Why can't I get a happy ending! This is soooo unfaaaaaair". UGH. Effing bite me, Show.

Yes but I was talking about Emma in that post.

[RadioGirl27]

So, with Rumple switching back the original Dagger, how is Belle is going to find out about the deception?

Robert said something about someone blackmailing him for it, so someone needs to discover it. Unless the blackmail is about something else and we just assumed it was about the dagger.

[scenicbyway]

For me, the difference is that Hook reached a point where he decided that he did not like the man he was.  You could debate when exactly the moment was - and I think most would agree that Emma was the catalyst (even before he fell in love with her I think he was taken with her integrity and courage and it held a mirror up to him and he did not like what he saw).  From that moment on, he made baby steps towards becoming a better man.  No one lauded him for it (or in some cases even noticed) nor did he ask them to.  It was incremental and not without hiccups, but it was steadily moving him away from his villainous past.  The other big thing for me, is in the finale when he sees his past self, there is no real...  fondness, wistfulness or bragging about the man he was.  He seems uncomfortable and a little ashamed to have Emma seeing him for the man he was.  He has shown guilt, remorse, shame and has tried to make amends when he could.  He also isn't running around crowing about how he's changed and demanding he get his happy ending.  I would bet he still doesn't see himself as a hero or deserving of good things.

What I thought was interesting about Hook in the finale was that yes, he didn't like his past self and didn't want Emma to see him like that but even more---Emma accepted past-Hook.  She had no reservations about flirting or going back to his ship with him--even after being warned by present-Hook.  In fact, WHY did Emma go back to the ship with past-Hook?  Was it really to see if present Hook was there?  I think even present-Hook was wondering about that.

 

It's true that Regina has evolved and I think that Neverland and Zelena helped her do that.  I think we may have even seen shades of Frozen in the Regina/Zelena dynamic--why else make them half sisters?  It really did nothing for the plot.  I think what Adam and Eddy are saying is that Regina has changed, and, this season we'll see how much.  We know she wasn't remorseful in Neverland but perhaps since then she has become somewhat remorseful.  Perhaps losing Henry for a year and now Robin maybe forever will finally be the wakeup call she needs.

 

As for Regina and Henry's quest to find the author of "Once Upon a Time"  I still think that this particular book is Emma's story and the people she encounters as it relates to her own story.  Everyone in the book has a significant impact on her life.  I think Emma's happy ending is in the book but perhaps not Regina's or Rumple's.  It makes sense for Snow and Charming's to be in there because they are her parents.

[angelwoody]

I am probably imagining things, but wasn't August originally supposed to be the author of the book?  Wasn't that what the whole typewriter reveal was about?  

 

I'm confused about August in general (How did a little boy manage to not only remember, but still believe as an adult all of the magical stuff from the EF?  How did he know not only who Bae was but who Bae grew up to be?  Why did he have to be such a drama queen to Neal with the typewriter in the box with the paper with his name on it?) so it's probably me. 

[regularlyleaded]

Yes but I was talking about Emma in that post.

My apologies, but I'm not sure I'm following. In your original post you mentioned that you would like for an interviewer to bring up the fact that the crappiness of Emma's life is due to Regina's actions (and BTW, I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you. Someone needs to bring that up because I think it's been ignored for far too long). So when you mentioned wanting Regina to realize what her evil deeds have done to someone she likes, you were speaking about Emma in specific? If so, I misunderstood. I thought you were speaking in the general sense.

 

I think my prior point about Robin being that figure still stands, because Regina supposedly loves Robin whereas she only just tolerates Emma. So if she can't find it within herself to notice that she caused someone she loves pain, I doubt she'll notice all the pain she's caused Emma ,whom she only tolerates because of Henry.

 

I don't think Regina (or the writers) will acknowledge that Emma's crappy childhood was a consequence of Regina's actions because Regina doesn't see Emma as a person, let alone a person with feelings or worth (and the writers see Emma as a "Destroyer of [Regina's] Happiness", so we know where they stand). Emma (and other people) are an obstacle and a hinderance to Regina because Regina is a narcissistic sociopath that sees people as tools and means to her ends, her ends being her own personal happiness. IMO, until Regina realizes that other people matter and are not objects, and until she realizes everything she's done was wrong and feels regret, guilt, and remorse, we'll never see anything different from her than the endless Woegina whining about "But why can't I have my happy ending?! It's not faaaaair! I mean, who do I have to kill to get it?!" while her victims walk on eggshells around her in hopes of avoiding another murdering rampage.

[regularlyleaded]

I am probably imagining things, but wasn't August originally supposed to be the author of the book?  Wasn't that what the whole typewriter reveal was about?

I don't think so? The typewriter is what allowed him to add his story to the book so that he could use that to start convincng Emma that magic was real, but he wasn't the original author. At least that's my understanding. August as the author was fan speculation.

 

It seems to me that the book is magical in the sense that no one person wrote it. It's a magical history recorder of everything that has happened (or is happening), and I tend to see it as scenicbyway does, that it's attached to Emma's life story because the book was ultimately created to help Emma believe in fairytales and magic and help her in her journey.

 

If Regina and Henry's quest to find the book author is an actual thing this season (well, tbh, I'll be fast forwarding my way through it because they are the two characters (still living) that I despise most on this show), I hope at the end of their quest they find a simple, non-magical mirror with the following words engraved on the bottom: "The person you see standing before you in this mirror is the author of your story. You are responsible for your own happy ending, biyach." (The "biyach" is optional, but with Regina I feel like it begs to be said).

Edited September 24, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Amerilla]

In terms of the dagger, I suspect the giving Original Recipe back to Belle is just the S4 reset for the story - he might end up switching it back again when he finds this shiny new object he wants and needs the dagger to make it work, or for any number of reasons yet to come.

 

But it's all still gratingly stupid. It's not like Belle could lock the dagger up in an Rumpel-impenatrable safe, even if she were inclined to do so. It's always going to be available to him to switch in and out at his leisure. It's not like he if went to her and said he really wanted it back that she wouldn't give it back to him. It's not like anyone in town is really afraid of him, or that having/not having the dagger in his possession makes some massive change in his personality.  It's not like anyone could legitemately blackmail a person who can freeze you, switch the real for the fake, and unfreeze you without your knowing it. Or just wipe everyone's memory.

 

So they're making this big plot point out of something that in no way matters or makes sense. Which is fast becoming the show's unofficial motto.

[Stuffy]

My apologies, but I'm not sure I'm following. In your original post you mentioned that you would like for an interviewer to bring up the fact that the crappiness of Emma's life is due to Regina's actions (and BTW, I completely and wholeheartedly agree with you. Someone needs to bring that up because I think it's been ignored for far too long). So when you mentioned wanting Regina to realize what her evil deeds have done to someone she likes, you were speaking about Emma in specific? If so, I misunderstood. I thought you were speaking in the general sense.

Sorry for the confusion. But yeah I wasn't even thinking of anyone else. I have no idea how to describe Emma/Regina that's why I added "(admires? tolerates? no idea how you'd describe their association)" after likes. Because I don't even know if Regina likes Emma. I wasn't talking romantic "like" so Robin didn't even register to me. You were right about their stuff though and I agree. I just meant the entire post to be about Emma and Regina.

[retrograde]

Sneak peak of the dance.

 

I must admit I find this pairing totally devoid of chemistry. But reliable sources tell me that some Rumbelle fans "can't even," while others have declared themselves "dead" from "the feels." 

Edited September 24, 2014 by retrograde

[KingOfHearts]

 

Sneak peak of the dance.

Wow. Could Rumpbelle fans want anything more? It doesn't get much better than that. But for me personally, it seems really, really manufactured. This ship has sailed.

 

Why didn't they use Belle's usual dress? It's much more pretty.

Edited September 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

Sneak peak of the dance.

That was awful. Belle's dress is horrible and I don't have words to describe my opinion about Rumple's outfit. But, yeah, the shippers would love it. But I hate Rumbelle even more than Outlaw Queen, so that's another scene from the premiere to skip.

[Mari]

I've heard he enchants the dagger with some kind of locator so he can track Belle.

Do you remember if that was speculation, or an actual spoiler?  If they're planning on Rumple having to track Belle at some point, is he being super suspicious, or is she endangered/missing?

 

('Cause the whole "Here, we're in a relationship so take this thing that makes me compelled to do anything you tell me I have to do, 'cause force is romantic." isn't creepy enough.  Let's add another layer of "stalker" to it.)

[regularlyleaded]

('Cause the whole "Here, we're in a relationship so take this thing that makes me compelled to do anything you tell me I have to do, 'cause force is romantic." isn't creepy enough.  Let's add another layer of "stalker" to it.)

That and "Please ignore the fact that I murdered my previous wife because she didn't love me anymore. Ripped out her heart and crushed it with my bare hands. Yay! Cheers, new wifey!"

Edited September 24, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Rumsy4]

Sneak Peek 1 is released, and am unable to link from my mobile. Sigh. It's the same scene they showed at comic con where Regina goes to get Sydney in the hospital. Poor, pathetic Sydney. He looks so pleased. Cos, you know, slavery is part of an amazing redemption arc.

ETA: Here's the link: http://storybrookemirror.tumblr.com/post/98341446861/4-01-a-tale-of-two-sisters-sneak-peek

The other sneak peeks were in the first seven minutes already released.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Emma]

I'd rather watch paint dry while having a root canal than sit through that dance scene again.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Poor, pathetic Sydney.

Not justifying Regina here, but Sidney was always begging for her slavery. Heck, the very reason he became a mirror was because of his choice. Regina wanted to let him go free. They're both super creepy.

 

Do you remember if that was speculation, or an actual spoiler?  If they're planning on Rumple having to track Belle at some point, is he being super suspicious, or is she endangered/missing?

 

If I can find the source, I'll put it here. I believe it was one of the early Tumblr spoilers that came after the LA premiere.

Edited September 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

Ah, see, the sneak peek of Rumbelle reminds me that when the writers aren't putting them in contrived/awful situations, Carlyle and de Ravin actually do have a fair bit of chemistry. But I agree that the costuming does them no favors. Belle's original gold gown was better than this one, and that shade of blue is not flattering for him. What the heck is up with the costumes this year? They're usually so good, but this year is far more miss than hit, from what we've seen so far.

 

Cheering Marian so. freaking. hard. And Robin, you're the world's biggest d-bag. Honestly, Marian and Regina should both dump his idiot ass and find themselves better men (or women!).

 

Haig's already killing it as Elsa.

[retrograde]

A heap more photos from shooting yesterday. Hook's hook really does look silly in that jacket.

[Amerilla]

Did they lose Castro as head of costuming and nobody told us? I can't believe he made the Jacket of Many Zippers. (ETA: I knew the hook would look stupid with the jacket.)

I know the dance scene outfits are supposed to copy the movie - which is why they look cartoonish - but it would have made more sense to keep them in the show's canon outfits.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Amerilla

[KingOfHearts]

 

I know the dance scene outfits are supposed to copy the movie - which is why they look cartoonish - but it would have made more sense to keep them in the show's canon outfits.

Once is usually a bit more creative and cryptic with their Disney allusions. The obvious costumes and obvious music just makes it feel incredibly forced and contrived. There's nothing subtle about this allusion at all.

 

They even use the same-looking chandelier!

[sharky]

If I remember, they outsourced the Jacket of Many Zippers -- I think there were some posts about a month ago on tumblr about the company that made it. In fact, I want to say the tailor there leaked some of the details early on about Once's custom order. So Castro didn't make it necessarily, but I do wonder how much design input he gave the company and how much they did on their own. That being said, I do like the coat overall but the hook does kind of seem strange. Perhaps we can get a compromise with the modern clothes under his old long leather duster. Maybe?

[Rumsy4]

Not justifying Regina here, but Sidney was always begging for her slavery. Heck, the very reason he became a mirror was because of his choice. Regina wanted to let him go free. They're both super creepy.

 

IIRC, Sydney made the wish that he would never be separated from Regina, and was not pleased to find himself trapped in the mirror. I agree that Sydney is a loser, but I doubt he wants to be trapped in the mirror yet again, a slave to Regina's wishes again. All the time she was working True Love's Kiss and Light Magic, happy reunited with Henry, and banging Robin, she knew that Sydney was in the hospital, but did nothing to free him (not to mention the hearts). Her redemption is a joke. This whole Show is a joke. 

 

Hook's hook really does look silly in that jacket.

 

He holds his hand at an angle in scenes so the difference in length is not obvious. He's probably just gripping it loosely when not filming. 

 

I liked the Rumbelle dance scene well enough, but my brain kept saying, "Rumple, you're sitting on a throne of lies." (The ONCE podcast guys use that line). It made it all seem fake to me.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Rumsy4

[kili]

Hook's hook really does look silly in that jacket.

 

And they've totally f'ed it up because they are stuck with it forever now. If they hadn't been in such a rush to give him his hand so they could take it away again, they could have come up with a plot where he kept it (or at least got a modern prosthetic).  The can't keep giving and taking away his hand like he is some pirate version of Mr. Potato Head.  A hook for a hand doesn't work very well in modern form-fitting clothes like that. They should have at least given him a trench coat or a pea coat or something. Now this is all silly.

 

I guess he can get together with that swimsuit model they had on Ellen.

Edited September 25, 2014 by kili

[retrograde]

He holds his hand at an angle in scenes so the difference in length is not obvious. He's probably just gripping it loosely when not filming. 

Yeah, I agree that between the actor, crew, and editors, they can work around it. "Can" being the operative word, though -- the last jacket was much more forgiving. I do suspect he will be wearing the "fake" hand more often than not now.

[Rumsy4]

Btw, did Robert's Scottish accent seem really pronounced in that Dance sneak peek? That's a big sign the actor's losing interest. Naveen Andrews didn't bother hiding his British accent in the final season of LOST in many of the scenes.

[stealinghome]

Perhaps we can get a compromise with the modern clothes under his old long leather duster. Maybe?

I was actually just thinking this--if we must, keep the modern-day jeans and shirt, but give him his long leather coat back. It will hide the hook more effectively, it will be a nice compromise between real-world and fairytale land attire, it won't make him look like he's borrowing from Charming/Will's wardrobe, and frankly it will make him look like less of an overgrown emo teenager. (Ditching the guyliner would also be acceptable on this front!)

 

ETA: Also, it is hilarious--and hilariously awesome--to see them all standing around in track jackets and cardigans and whatnot while they're rehearsing. It just makes me laugh.

 

I am curious as to why Henry's all dressed up, when no one else is.

Edited September 25, 2014 by stealinghome

[kili]

A heap more photos from shooting yesterday.

 

Yes! Marian is still alive and she currently has custody of Roland (at least she's still shooting scenes with him).

If I remember, they outsourced the Jacket of Many Zippers

 

Yes, but to the same leather company that made the other leather jackets for the show. They simply make them as directed.

Edited September 25, 2014 by kili

[KingOfHearts]

 

IIRC, Sydney made the wish that he would never be separated from Regina, and found himself trapped in the mirror. I agree that Sydney is a loser, but I doubt he wants to be trapped in the mirror, a slave to Regina's wishes again.

I actually think he does, but we'll see in the episode. Going off of very little evidence here.

 

(Also, why the heck did Emma never ask about him?)

 

 

All the time she was working True Love's Kiss and Light Magic, happy reunited with Henry, and banging Robin, she knew that Sydney was in the hospital, but did nothing to free him. Her redemption is a joke. This whole Show is a joke.

 

Without diverging too much, my expectations for Regina's redemption are low. I've accepted the fact it's seriously flawed, and I'm going to try to leave it at that. Unless she turns into the full-on Evil Queen again this season, I won't flip out about anything that happens. When you check logic at the door, Once can actually be a very entertaining show. On the bright side, it seems the writers are focusing more character development this half-season, at least apart from the Frozen stuff. Some aspects of the premiere recap I actually thoroughly enjoyed.

Edited September 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

Yes! Marian is still alive and she currently has custody of Roland (at least she's still shooting scenes with him).

Apparently they were just reshooting something for episode 3, I'm afraid.

[kili]

Apparently they were just reshooting something for episode 3, I'm afraid.

 

Drat! Thanks for the info.

Edited September 25, 2014 by kili