Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Camera One]

I would suggest that everyone begin their eye rolling exercises this week so the muscles are in full working order by next Friday.

From the EW Interview with Adam J. West.

Quote

While they don’t know that they’re mother and son — there’s a good joke about that in the premiere — that doesn’t mean they won’t form a bond. “The bar that she works at becomes a bit of a haven for him and a bit of a home base for him when he’s in Hyperion Heights,” Andrew J. West teases. “She’s somebody that he can commiserate with and that he can bounce ideas off of, and they develop a partnership because they both find that they have a common goal in Hyperion Heights.”

That's just weird.

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Now when we pick him up in Hyperion Heights, there’s very much that essence in there. For the first time, we see this guy dealing with some real trauma and that has effects on the person who he is, how he behaves, and how he sees the world.

Real trauma because his pathetic book didn't sell?  LOL!

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That’s going to be really cool for fans, too, to see this character that’s always been the optimist, always been the one who believes — there’s been moments of darkness here and there in the third season with Peter Pan and different things, but he’s always been the bright shining beacon of hope and light. We see him really being challenged for the first time in a serious way in Hyperion Heights.

I guess he's not aware that very few viewers saw him as a "bright shining beacon of hope and light".  More like a bright shining beacon of utter stupidity.  And I'm actually a fan of Henry.

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 Really what Jen did with Emma Swan, and what Lana did, and what Josh Dallas did with Prince Charming, who are all members of obviously his immediate family, was a big inspiration for who this person becomes, too. Having those figures in his life that have influenced him so heavily. 

Yeah, so so so so so so so so so so heavily.  Especially Prince Charming who hardly ever got to talk to him.  Grandma Snow needs no mention.

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But at the same time, when we start season 7, we’re seeing him at two separate points in his life, and those are two very different Henrys too because a lot of time has passed between those two points — the person that he is in some of these fairy tale flashbacks that we’re going to see and then the person that he is in Hyperion Heights. It’s because of the things that have happened to him in the interim that are slowly revealed that we realize why he may seem a little different.

But doesn't he have FAKE FALSE MEMORIES in Hyperion Heights?  

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To be totally honest with you, a lot of that stuff hasn’t even really been revealed to me in detail yet either. I’ve, of course, gotten bits and pieces and stuff, but I don’t even know how all of the backstory is going to unfold either.

Typical.  The actors know nothing.  

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He lives alone. He’s lonely, frankly. 

With WALLS.  Don't forget that.  Just like Emma in the pilot.

[cappoe]

Quote

totally agree. I think Colin was under a lot of pressure to promote S7 and was given the talking point "Emma and Hook got their happy ending". He's been running with that talking point since D23 when he had seen the script for 7x01 at most. I don't think he's lying, but the happy ending they are talking about could easily be what we saw at the end of S6 or the time between S6 finale and S7 premiere. I don't believe he has ever said "CS fans have nothing to worry about". He has only stuck to the "Emma and Hook got their happy ending" talking point. As was said above, these writers are not writing this for the CS audience - especially since Emma isn't on the show anymore!

He pretty much just said it in his recent interview. "For the fans, it's important to know, that Hook and Emma have got their happy ending together", and with a smile on his face. Honestly I do not think Colin is trying to deceive us. If he is he better be prepared for the widespread of hate coming his way for stringing the fans all summer long however I do not think that is what he is doing. He is not like Adam and Eddy, he does not like giving absolutes in his questions. The fact that he does to me, I take as a sign. 

He's been running with that endpoint ever since not D23 but Comic Con, which was when read the script already by that point for 7x02 and he knew what was gonna happen to CS and Emma and he has not backed off those claims. Colin didn't really speak that much about CS at D23, the trolls did and they just did their dumb usual trolling

I just don't buy he would do something like that. The only way he speaks with certainty is because Emma and Hook are together and the Hook in HH's is not at all affiliated with them in any way shape or form or it's because they filmed a post curse reunion in 7x02 or have filmed one to be used at a later point in the season. He wouldn't be saying the stuff he's saying if CS are about to go through a 20 + episode separation with no pay off on screen whatsoever. I just don't buy that.

Believe me my expectations are as low as can be, but I trust Colin a hell of a lot more then I trust Adam and Eddy.

Quote

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by cappoe

[rogvortex58]

32 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Real trauma because his pathetic book didn't sell?  LOL!

Actually, according to the spoiler recap his cursed self has memories of losing loved ones.

[oncebluethrone]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

That seems like a rather unrealistic expectation. TV show writers have no obligation to coddle a small portion of the audience of a show that's waning in popularity. 

It wouldn't be coddling the audience though, it would be giving a proper ending to their main character of 6 seasons based on Jen's availability. 

[RedKeep]

Pretty sure their egos, especially Kitsis', ultimately trump whatever devotion they have may have left for the characters no longer part of the show. I doubt anyone's gonna die off-screen or whatever, but that's just about it in terms of what I imagine they'll do to express their respect for the important roles these characters played for many years. And since there's apparently still some small chance the show could continue beyond this season, under certain circumstances, I'm not at all convinced the two of them were already preparing for a potential series finale back when they went about plotting how to use JM for her one episode. They've been making it up as they went along for years. I doubt that's ever gonna change.

[Shanna Marie]

Something struck me this morning: Assuming Hook ever gets back to Storybrooke, if he does, he will have real world/real life police experience, with whatever fake memories he's given and the time he actually spends working as a Seattle cop. That could make the Storybrooke sheriff's office very interesting, since Emma was never all that great as a sheriff. She got the job because Rumple rigged an election (and Regina was a big enough bitch that rigging the election against her lackey wasn't too hard). Her "bail bondsperson" (bounty hunter, really) background mostly just made her good at finding people and holding stakeouts. She never did any actual investigative work or crime fighting. She never went after any criminals unless they personally annoyed her or she needed their help/info in dealing with the current villain. There was no real procedure, no sense of actually fighting crime. It's a pity we'll never get to see it because the series has moved on entirely from Storybrooke, but just imagine Emma dealing with her husband the co-sheriff (or deputy -- if he replaced David, then he's a co-sheriff) who suddenly not only can drive and use a phone without an "Emma button," but is comfortable with the Internet, able to use the major crime databases, who sets up a perimeter and tags evidence at each crime scene (and actually wants to investigate crimes), who's a stickler for paperwork and making sure procedures are followed so things will hold up in court. And imagine the town dealing with a real cop, for a change, instead of someone who was more or less handed the position without any actual law-enforcement experience -- and that cop is Captain Hook, except he actually really knows what he's doing. Only he's probably even better once he's back in We Are Both mode, since he can draw upon his own criminal past to know how criminals think, and he knows the histories of so many people in the town.

As I said, pity we won't get to see it, unless they come up with a spinoff. You're welcome to the idea for fanfic purposes.

[Rumsy4]

12 hours ago, cappoe said:

He pretty much just said it in his recent interview. "For the fans, it's important to know, that Hook and Emma have got their happy ending together", and with a smile on his face. Honestly I do not think Colin is trying to deceive us. If he is he better be prepared for the widespread of hate coming his way for stringing the fans all summer long however I do not think that is what he is doing. He is not like Adam and Eddy, he does not like giving absolutes in his questions. The fact that he does to me, I take as a sign. 

I think you're overestimating Colin's grasp on fandom. There's no way he could predict all the theories that would come up based on his reassurances. At the end of the day, CS is separated in Season 7, and the alternate/clone Hook theories are not supported by the episode 1 synopsis. Even if they reunite at the end of the Show, it doesn't negate the Cursed separation. Colin is not a writer for the Show, and there's no way he can promise that the sanctity of Captain Swan will be preserved until then. The writers pretty near ruined CS in season 6, when both Jen and Colin were present. Also, these writers had no qualms having cursed Snow and Charming sleep with other people, and be involved in a tawdry affair. Not to mention Golden Queen. Nothing is sacrosanct to them. The writers don't "love" the characters the way fans do. 

10 hours ago, oncebluethrone said:

It wouldn't be coddling the audience though, it would be giving a proper ending to their main character of 6 seasons based on Jen's availability. 

Regina's been the acting main character for several seasons now. Emma's the main character in name only. They just don't care about Emma all that much. I don't think they're gonna kill her off, and I'm sure they'll try to get Jen back for the series finale, but that's up in the air. For all practical purposes, this season is not going keep calling back to Emma or CS frequently. And even when they do, it will be annoying as heck knowing any potential reunion will be unsatisfactory/brief/both.

2 hours ago, RedKeep said:

They've been making it up as they went along for years. I doubt that's ever gonna change.

Exactly.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Rumsy4

[rogvortex58]

“We’ll do great work together.”

Ooh, Detective Shady.

I swear, looking at that clip. Weaver could literally outshade the Blue Fairy.

Edited September 30, 2017 by rogvortex58

[KingOfHearts]

30 minutes ago, rogvortex58 said:

“We’ll do great work together.”

Ooh, Detective Shady.

I swear, looking at that clip. Weaver could literally outshade the Blue Fairy.

Where is the clip?

[Kktjones]

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Where is the clip?

It was posted on the Once twitter account. 

Now we know that Henry/Cinderella is an epic as Snowing because she punched him <insert exaggerated eye roll>.

[Camera One]

Even MORE epic than Snowing.  Look at Cinderella fighting soldiers on the dance floor with her sword, something loser Snow White, uh, I mean Nary Margaret would never have been able to do.

Cinderella learned how to ride a motorcycle in record time.  

Let me guess.  Cinders punches Henry out, and goes on the attack, interrupting Drizella's wedding or something.  But she is eventually overpowered, and Henry comes in to save the day, and she must become Bandit Cinders, on the run.

Quote

While they don’t know that they’re mother and son — there’s a good joke about that in the premiere — that doesn’t mean they won’t form a bond. 

I can guess the lines already.

AT THE BAR

HENRY: And get this... she thinks I'm her father!

RONI: Well, if that's the case, I'm your long-lost mother separated by space and time.

AUDIENCE: Rolleyes

Edited September 30, 2017 by Camera One

[rogvortex58]

54 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

It was posted on the Once twitter account. 

Now we know that Henry/Cinderella is an epic as Snowing because she punched him <insert exaggerated eye roll>.

First sign of true love. Violence and theft.

[Camera One]

In Adam J. West's interview, he was saying, "Colin, Lana, and Bobby have talked about how new it feels to them and how they are finding different versions of these characters.".  

I wonder if the "challenge" of these Cursed characters are mainly because they have no idea where Roni, Rogers and whatever Rumple's Curse name is are coming from, since they have not been told.  I can't imagine it's that difficult to play a bartender, or a brooding cop, or a slimy drug lord/mob boss/crooked cop or whatever Rumple is.  But without knowing the full story of how the original characters got to that place and what aspects of their personalities are part of the Curse, it would feel new because there is nothing solid to anchor their performance to.  

[oncebluethrone]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Regina's been the acting main character for several seasons now. Emma's the main character in name only. They just don't care about Emma all that much. I don't think they're gonna kill her off, and I'm sure they'll try to get Jen back for the series finale, but that's up in the air. For all practical purposes, this season is not going keep calling back to Emma or CS frequently. And even when they do, it will be annoying as heck knowing any potential reunion will be unsatisfactory/brief/both.

 

I'm not sure what show you've been watching, but Emma has always been the main character. Every season has focused on her. Regina may have had a lot of focus, but she never took over as main character. I know a lot of people on here hate Regina, but she didn't take over the show. And Adam and Eddy care about Emma, she is their creation and their fairytale. And why would anything related to Emma and CS be annoying? 

[Rumsy4]

50 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

I'm not sure what show you've been watching, but Emma has always been the main character. Every season has focused on her. Regina may have had a lot of focus, but she never took over as main character. I know a lot of people on here hate Regina, but she didn't take over the show. And Adam and Eddy care about Emma, she is their creation and their fairytale. And why would anything related to Emma and CS be annoying? 

The writers have delved into more of Regina's flashbacks, feelings, and psyche than any other character in the Show. And she always gets the most sympathetic viewpoint and treatment. Lana had the most screen time than any other character in Season 7. Emma has been the main character in name only in Season 6. She was barely there in several episodes in 6B, because A&E were already too busy launching their reboot or requel or whatever they want to call S7. 

I just don't think Hook should've been part of the reboot, because it involves a separation from Emma and a break in their "Happy Beginning" which didn't last long. And as Emma is not part of the Show anymore, their eventual reunion is bound to be unsatisfactory. And unlike some, I don't trust the writers not to give Cursed!Killian a temporary love interest just to promote the angst factor (just like they did with Cursed Snowing or Golden Queen or Zarian, the writers don't consider their True Love couples exempt from sordid intrigues). The writers don't have a history of writing that would lead me to trust them with anything, much less CS.

[rogvortex58]

1 hour ago, oncebluethrone said:

I'm not sure what show you've been watching, but Emma has always been the main character. Every season has focused on her. Regina may have had a lot of focus, but she never took over as main character. I know a lot of people on here hate Regina, but she didn't take over the show. And Adam and Eddy care about Emma, she is their creation and their fairytale. And why would anything related to Emma and CS be annoying? 

Most of her story lines dominated the show. Split Queen for example overstayed it’s welcome in S6. And then there’s Operation Morongoose, trying to find the author to give her a happy ending.

She also has more centric episodes and flashbacks than Emma ever did.

[Camera One]

I'll reply in the All-Seasons thread, since it's more about the past than the future.

[oncebluethrone]

34 minutes ago, rogvortex58 said:

Most of her story lines dominated the show. Split Queen for example overstayed it’s welcome in S6. And then there’s Operation Morongoose, trying to find the author to give her a happy ending.

She also has more centric episodes and flashbacks than Emma ever did.

The Split Queen and Operation Mongoose story lines weren't the main ones of Season 6 and Season 4B, though. They were Emma's Fate as the Savior/The Final Battle and Turning Emma dark. Yes, Regina had more flashbacks, but in my opinion, more episodes focused on Emma than on Regina (some of these episode also focused on guest characters).

How about this: Both Emma and Regina are main characters, but Emma is the main protagonist. 

[cappoe]

57 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

And unlike some, I don't trust the writers not to give Cursed!Killian a temporary love interest just to promote the angst factor (just like they did with Cursed Snowing or Golden Queen or Zarian, the writers don't consider their True Love couples exempt from sordid intrigues). The writers don't have a history of writing that would lead me to trust them with anything, much less CS.

Well I think you should rest assured that is not going to happen. Because in the premiere they've already set up a cursed LI and love triangle. Henry/Jacinda/the man she's cursed to believe is Lucy's father. And Jacinda and a male actor filmed at a restaurant alone for episode 8. So putting pieces together it's probably the man she believes is Lucy's father. So there's your cursed LI/love triangle and it's with Snowing 2.0.  It could also become a quadrangle if cursed Henry and Drusilla start something as well. Hook is not going to get a cursed LI and Regina's LI will probably be someone that she meets in EF 2 to show us a past and present storyline for her and her LI. 

That's 3 right there plenty of romance right there, Hook nor Rumple need LI's and I do not think they will get them.

Henry/Jacinda will take up most of the screentime in the romance department(they've said as such, will people care probably not). You also have the LGBT one as well as Regina's in the second half. 

It's rather unfortunate that almost zero of the reviews talk about Henry/Jacinda in a positive way. Most said their chemistry was forced and they were trying too hard. Oh that shows great promise right there. Watch Henry have more chemistry with Drusilla then Cinderella. 

Edited September 30, 2017 by cappoe

[CCTC]

57 minutes ago, cappoe said:

Watch Henry have more chemistry with Drusilla then Cinderella. 

or more  inappropriately - Roni.

[RedKeep]

I don't remember there being any hints from spoilers that Drizella and Henry will be interacting a lot, let alone as (cursed) love interests, anyway. Isn't Lady Tremaine all about getting Driz to marry up? Doesn't seem like Henry would be someone she'd pick for that in either FTL or the real world.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, cappoe said:

It's rather unfortunate that almost zero of the reviews talk about Henry/Jacinda in a positive way. Most said their chemistry was forced and they were trying too hard. Oh that shows great promise right there. Watch Henry have more chemistry with Drusilla then Cinderella. 

You'd think they'd have learned from Regina and Robin that declaring an epic romance up front, before we even see the characters interact, is a bad idea, but I doubt they even realized how flat that fell (or did they, and that was the reason he was killed off so they could go for round two with a different Robin and the Evil Queen?). As big as they are on Surprise!, I'm a little surprised that they flat-out told us up front who Lucy's mother was instead of making the guess of which one is it last a little longer until we finally got to the flashback episode of them getting together. They could have had Lucy be a foster child, so we wouldn't know in the present who her mom really was.

[RedKeep]

At the end of the day chemistry is subjective, but I think the bigger issue on this show tends to be the writing trying way too hard anyway. I have no issue buying that this might be a legit problem in s7 too since it's just part of how A&E roll, really. They lucked out in season 1 with GG and JD because how they went about setting up Snowing was flawed from the get-go too. Although obviously not nearly as messed up as some of their later attempts at "epic" romance.

[Camera One]

I definitely agree that the set-up for Snowing was flawed as well (as good as "Snow Falls" was, they disappointed me that they were only going to devote a single episode to the two falling in love instead of making it more of a process - which ultimately became a pattern, to the point where it practically became a joke by the time Ruby Slippers and Zades had their episodes). 

However, I think the major difference with Regina/Robin Hood and now Henry/Cinderella is that they don't have the original story to "back up" their legitimacy that Snowing had.  A viewer who saw Prince Charming racing to kiss Snow White in the glass coffin in the pilot would have brought along all their prior knowledge and feelings from the Snow White tale (though they definitely lucked out with casting that most viewers "bought" GG and JD as those characters).  In this new season, we have to somehow "believe" that Cinderella would necessarily fall in love with a negligent motorcyclist she crashes into.  Ditto for why Robin Hood would give a hoot about an evil despot that would have been as bad or worse than King John.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Camera One

[cappoe]

I've thought of this ever since we had that Hook flashback with Smee in the forest during the Witch centric episode. I'm becoming more convinced then ever that the Witch is Hook's mother.

Which is a shame if true cause she will never meet her son's wife/true love nor her grandchild. Then again she's probably the real big bad.

[ParadoxLost]

I just looked at the promotional character portraits.  Hook's is hilarious.  Do you think having him stand in front of an exit is a subliminal message to the audience?

I find myself apprehensive, but not overly surprised, that they decided Henry should meet Cinderella when she's on the way to murder someone.  I just want to be able to connect with a character before they show their dark underbelly spot on their heart.  Is that too much to ask?  A&E, there will be plenty of time later for me to disregard that you have Cinderella trying to problem solve via revenge murder because you are terrible writers.  But I've got to like her first.  Not sounding like that is going to happen.

Edited October 1, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Camera One]

Snow was sorta planning to murder poor Regina with that dark fairy dust when Charming met her, too, and we were still able to connect with her, so maybe it will be the same for Cinderella?  The difference is that we got to see Snow in the pilot before "Snow Falls", I suppose.  I am curious whether Cinderella will be presented fully as a victim of Lady Tremaine, and if Lady Tremaine will get a moment of sad-face in all this (I know the actress has said the character has no redeeming quality *yet* but A&E has already confirmed she has gone through a lot in the past.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

4 hours ago, RedKeep said:

At the end of the day chemistry is subjective, but I think the bigger issue on this show tends to be the writing trying way too hard anyway.

You certainly can't coast on chemistry because it is subjective, but I'm not sure I'd say the writing is trying too hard. More like what they tell us is trying to hard. The writing doesn't try at all. Instead of writing Robin and Regina as soulmates, they told us they were soulmates, and that was it, like they didn't have to do more. And now they're telling us up front that Cinderella and Henry are an epic love story. Will they bother to write an epic love story, or will they just think that telling us it's epic is enough. I generally find that the relationships audiences get most excited about are the ones they get to make up their own minds about, where they have to interpret and analyze and guess where they're going with it. You lose a lot of the fun when the writers tell you from the start that this is going to be a great, epic love story. Even if it was going to be obvious who Lucy's mother was by the end of the first episode, it might have been fun to guess during that one episode as we saw Henry encounter the various characters, rather than knowing going into it who it would be. And when you tell us it's "epic," there are expectations to live up to.

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

However, I think the major difference with Regina/Robin Hood and now Henry/Cinderella is that they don't have the original story to "back up" their legitimacy that Snowing had. 

There's also the fact that although the falling in love part of the Snowing story wasn't exactly deep, there was a lot more to it than there was in the original fairy tale or even in the Disney version, so it felt like that story was fleshed out. There are different expectations for original relationships, and then there's even more required to convince us that the new thing is better when you're breaking up a canon relationship for the new relationship. So, Henry/Cinderella not only doesn't have the fairytale story to back it up, it has to compete with the fairytale story. I also don't really feel the "Cinderella" in what I've seen so far of this Cinderella, but it is hard to judge from promos.

10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Snow was sorta planning to murder poor Regina with that dark fairy dust when Charming met her, too, and we were still able to connect with her, so maybe it will be the same for Cinderella?  The difference is that we got to see Snow in the pilot before "Snow Falls", I suppose.

We got to see Snow having her wedding interrupted by Regina, with Regina threatening her with a curse, then we saw Regina's minions trying to kill Charming and Snow having to send away her baby at birth because of Regina's curse. We also saw Regina being a total bitch in the present to Emma and to Snow. By the time of "Snow Falls," we thought that Snow using dark fairy dust was a brilliant plan and Regina had her fate coming (of course, in later show morality, it was pure evil to want to defend herself and her kingdom from the Evil Queen). I guess we'll have to see if we learn why Cinderella wants to kill the prince before the attempted murder, but meeting her as she tries to kill someone we haven't really met and don't know anything about isn't necessarily a great first impression.

[Camera One]

1 minute ago, Shanna Marie said:

I also don't really feel the "Cinderella" in what I've seen so far of this Cinderella

What do you mean?  She's wearing her iconic blue dress. 

Quote

I guess we'll have to see if we learn why Cinderella wants to kill the prince 

Ohhh, I assumed she was going to kill Lady Tremaine.  Never mind.

[ParadoxLost]

15 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Snow was sorta planning to murder poor Regina with that dark fairy dust when Charming met her, too, and we were still able to connect with her, so maybe it will be the same for Cinderella?  The difference is that we got to see Snow in the pilot before "Snow Falls", I suppose.  I am curious whether Cinderella will be presented fully as a victim of Lady Tremaine, and if Lady Tremaine will get a moment of sad-face in all this (I know the actress has said the character has no redeeming quality *yet* but A&E has already confirmed she has gone through a lot in the past.

What concerns me about it is that Cinderella isn't off to kill her evil stepmother that comes with an inherent understanding of her motives because the tale is known.  Instead she is off to kill the Prince for reasons that I presume are so A&E don't have to do as much heavy lifting regarding telling an actual story to maneuver Henry and Cinderella to a place where they are the central true love couple.

[Camera One]

Is this one of the patented A&E "twists" of this episode?  We assume she is going to kill Lady Tremaine but it's actually the Prince?  I'm glad I found out the "surprise" beforehand, or you're right, it doesn't exactly make one warm to Murderella.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

I decided to read a recap of the episode and I can see why people might like it, but still be fairly disengaged. It sounds more like people find the story to have potential and be interesting, but are having a hard time connecting with the new characters. I suspect that's going to be a problem for the show. If the new cast doesn't gel, things will get ugly fast. Captain Swan and Rumpbelle fans will only stick around until their episodes air unless the show can grab them and it doesn't seem like that's happening in the premiere. Based on what I read, the only new character I like is Alice and that's because she tells Henry to stop inserting himself into other people's stories because bad things will happen. Naturally, Henry does not listen.

[Camera One]

Yes, the retention after the second episode is going to be very telling.  Even if people are happy with the CS resolution and the "curtain call", if people aren't interested in anything else in the plot, they will drift.  I imagine some CS fans will continue watching to see Hook.  Rumbelle fans might parachute in and watch the fourth episode, since Rumbelle episodes tend to be isolated from the rest of the plot.  

I talked to a casual fan on a message board for another show, and she is willing to watch the first episode but doesn't have high expectations.  She only watched the sixth season on and off, and her favorite character is Rumple.

I've personally never watched an episode knowing so much about it beforehand, so I wonder how much that would enjoy my enjoyment of the episode.  I doubt it will make much of a difference considering I'm not overly attached to any of the characters left. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Camera One

[cappoe]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Yes, the retention after the second episode is going to be very telling.  Even if people are happy with the CS resolution and the "curtain call", if people aren't interested in anything else in the plot, they will drift.  I imagine some CS fans will continue watching to see Hook.  Rumbelle fans might parachute in and watch the fourth episode, since Rumbelle episodes tend to be isolated from the rest of the plot.  

I talked to a casual fan on a message board for another show, and she is willing to watch the first episode but doesn't have high expectations.  She only watched the sixth season on and off, and her favorite character is Rumple.

I feel like they could keep the CS fans if they show us like something in 7x02 that will be a resolution to what happens during the rest of the season. Like we see the reunion for CS post curse and you see them together with their child and then the season for Hook is about getting to that point. I would be more open to that IMO, seeing Hook fight to regain his memories of Emma and then fight like hell to get back to her and we wouldn't need to see JMO again cause we've seen the reunion and everything. It's just now for Hook the journey towards that moment. 

Personally my opinion is that we are looking at horrible ratings from get go. A tie to a series low or a new series low and then it just going from there. But I still am certain on that if 7x02 does not deliver then it will tank the ratings and kill the show before the season even takes off.

I mean LBR this crap is probably gonna be getting mid to low CW ratings by mid season finale time. I think it will lose to almost every other show in the time slot aside from the CW show.

[Serena]

Everything about Murderella (thanks to Camera One for coming up with that, it's hilarious and I'm using it forever) is so try hard. Of course the actress says "she's no damsel in distress"! Of course she punches a random guy who did nothing to her and steals his bike! Of course she can learn instantly to ride a bike! Of course she's the type to infiltrate a castle filled with guards and start throwing punches! 

And of course she has a cursed love interest in the real world - because Adam and Eddy just don't get how skeevy and rapey it is.

I'm gonna start shipping Henry with Tiana and Druzilla and even Lady Tremaine out of pure contrarianism.

[Kktjones]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

I doubt it will make much of a difference considering I'm not overly attached to any of the characters left. 

Yeah, while I do like Hook, I don't really care much about the other characters that have held over. And more than that, pretty much all of the relationships that I enjoyed are gone (romantic, familial and otherwise). I never cared for the Regina/Hook snarkfest and I'm completely over the Hook/Rumple feud (and I find the Regina/Henry relationship really unhealthy). Of the remaining characters I guess Regina/Rumple and Hook/Henry are the only ones I'm somewhat interested to see, although it doesn't seem like we're getting much of the former and the latter is with a brand new actor, so who knows.

[ParadoxLost]

Does the apparent absence of Cinderlla's other step sister from the show point to the idea that it will be revealed that Lady Termaine killed this version of her to cast the curse in a future episode?

[KingOfHearts]

48 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Does the apparent absence of Cinderlla's other step sister from the show point to the idea that it will be revealed that Lady Termaine killed this version of her to cast the curse in a future episode?

I misread your post and thought Lady Tremaine was so narcissistic she had to kill the alternate version of herself to cast the curse.

I'm alright with the more "realistic" setting, since it's something we've been asking for. But we'll be lucky if it lasts more than 2 or 3 episodes. Then it's back to magical nonsense!

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Does the apparent absence of Cinderlla's other step sister from the show point to the idea that it will be revealed that Lady Termaine killed this version of her to cast the curse in a future episode?

Naah. I bet it'll turn out Murderella (snicker) was somehow responsible for her death. 

The big twist will be that Henry himself cast the curse, and that he's sharing a heart with his wife, or the other way round.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

59 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Naah. I bet it'll turn out Murderella (snicker) was somehow responsible for her death. 

The other stepsister was the nicest person one could ever ask for, but Murderella set a trap for Drizella and accidentally killed The Super Nice One.  That is why Murderella is such a complex character wracked with guilt so she built WALLS around her to cope.  But actually Alice is the other stepsister and she's alive and Lady Tremaine knows and has been torturing Cinderella all these years.

Quote

The big twist will be that Henry himself cast the curse, and that he's sharing a heart with his wife, or the other way round.

Speaking of WALLS, because Henry has The Heart of the Truest Believer, he can actually cast the Curse with 1/4 of his own heart without killing anyone but he had to sacrifice his Author-ship, which meant sooooooooooooo much to him.  Henry also gave a quarter of his heart to Lucy and distributed the rest of it to Four and Twenty Blackbirds who deposited the pieces in the hearts of the Hyperion Height residents.  When each remembers their past, a piece of Henry's heart will be freed.  Henry cannot love with his full heart until he can reclaim all the pieces of his broken heart.  Until then, he is plagued by WALLS because anyone with a broken heart puts up WALLS.  

Edited October 1, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Speaking of WALLS, because Henry has The Heart of the Truest Believer, he can actually cast the Curse with 1/4 of his own heart without killing anyone but he had to sacrifice his Author-ship, which meant sooooooooooooo much to him.  Henry also gave a quarter of his heart to Lucy and distributed the rest of it to Four and Twenty Blackbirds who deposited the pieces in the hearts of the Hyperion Height residents.  When each remembers their past, a piece of Henry's heart will be freed.  Henry cannot love with his full heart until he can reclaim all the pieces of his broken heart.  Until then, he is plagued by WALLS because anyone with a broken heart puts up WALLS.  

That actually sounds like a more interesting plot than what we'll probably get. I like the idea of a magical reason behind the WALLS.

5 hours ago, Serena said:

I'm gonna start shipping Henry with Tiana and Druzilla and even Lady Tremaine out of pure contrarianism.

I'm guessing that Hroni/Ronry/whatever the ship name will be the crackship of choice this season, with the adherents claiming to see sooo much chemistry and pointing out that they aren't biologically related, they're close to the same age, and they don't remember him being her son, so it's not wrong. And, you know, they kind of deserve each other.

[rogvortex58]

The irony isn’t lost on me that like her previous victims Regina would be unable to consent to a relationship when she is cursed as Roni.

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm guessing that Hroni/Ronry/whatever the ship name will be the crackship of choice this season, with the adherents claiming to see sooo much chemistry and pointing out that they aren't biologically related, they're close to the same age, and they don't remember him being her son, so it's not wrong. And, you know, they kind of deserve each other.

I think that's why A&E made sure they got Jared back to include a scene with him and Regina saying goodbye before riding off into the portal, and the "mom" joke that Andrew J. West mentioned in his interview, along with some flashback scenes with Regina and a grown-up Henry.  I imagine they'll make sure all of those will be shown before the first Adult Henry-Roni meetup in Hyperion Heights.  In addition to making that moment more emotionally resonant, especially for new viewers.

They managed to dodge the bullet with Jennifer Morrison and Josh Dallas, maybe because they had limited scenes together at the beginning.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Camera One

[CCTC]

8 minutes ago, Camera One said:

They managed to dodge the bullet with Jennifer Morrison and Josh Dallas, maybe because they had limited scenes together at the beginning.

Morrison and Dallas did manage to have a great father-daughter chemistry without crossing the line.  Its funny, because I think in the later seasons she had a better parent-child chemistry with him that she did with Goodwin.  It is kind of odd when you watch season 1 and see Goodwin and Morrison interact have a stronger friendship that later gets dropped in later seasons, even though they are now aware they are mother-daughter.

[cappoe]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

That actually sounds like a more interesting plot than what we'll probably get. I like the idea of a magical reason behind the WALLS.

I'm guessing that Hroni/Ronry/whatever the ship name will be the crackship of choice this season, with the adherents claiming to see sooo much chemistry and pointing out that they aren't biologically related, they're close to the same age, and they don't remember him being her son, so it's not wrong. And, you know, they kind of deserve each other.

I'm guessing Henry will have more chemistry with the Evil Stepsister then Cinderella which is a big problem cause they're this epic love story. LOL. 

You know what happens when you try to tell an audience things like that, they do the opposite. That's why CS is loved because it was unexpected.  This trash is being promoted up the wazoo as the new Snowing and so far all reviews can say is either they have no chemistry or they're trying too hard and it looks forced. 

Nothing at all like Josh and Ginny's natural chemistry. Insulting even to compare.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, cappoe said:

I'm guessing Henry will have more chemistry with the Evil Stepsister then Cinderella which is a big problem cause they're this epic love story. LOL.

Funnily enough, I would have expected some kind of love triangle but I noticed that Henry and Drizella/Ivy haven't been said to have any interactions yet.

[cappoe]

42 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Funnily enough, I would have expected some kind of love triangle but I noticed that Henry and Drizella/Ivy haven't been said to have any interactions yet.

Give it time I'm sure it'll happen and be some kind of ONS situation or she obsesses over him. They already got their curse love triangle. Henry/Jacinda/Whomever Jacinda is cursed into thinking is Lucy's father.

[Camera One]

Drizella is supposed to be pure evil, so just when it seems like Henry and Cinders will get together and overcome Lady Tremaine, Drizella will step in and frame Cinders for murder.  Since we've never seen that before.

What does everyone think about the theory that Emma will merge with Killian and they become one person in Episode 2?

Edited October 2, 2017 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

What does everyone think about the theory that Emma will merge with Killian and they become one person in Episode 2?

I think it's a terrible idea and wish this show didn't have precedent for it. But if they did, Emma could surface like Neal did and we know she's not appearing, so it's unlikely.

[KingOfHearts]

What does everyone think about the theory that Emma will merge with Killian and they become one person in Episode 2?

Sounds like they made some super spicy tacos. ;)