Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Souris]

I guess I'm 1) too distrustful of A&E and 2) too concerned about what they will do to CS after the wedding, especially if Jen doesn't re-sign for next season, to get overly excited about the engagement/wedding. And that's a sorry state of affairs! It's really coming off like a box they're ticking off rather than something big that's being built toward. I don't think A&E really care about the CS wedding at all; it's not a priority in the story, more like a quick something they're throwing in to placate fans.

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, pezgirl7 said:

At least they pretty much confirmed that there will be a CS song, unless they were being trolls again...

This sounded more like trolling to me than most of their interviews.

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There were no details provided as to what exactly O'Donoghue will be singing, but when asked if a duet between Emma and Killian is something the fans can expect to see in the musical, the EPs were coy with their responses. "We want to keep some surprises for the fans," Horowitz shared.

So they will still watch the episode, not realizing there won't be a duet.

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"Yeah, but I would say this," Kitsis continued. "If you were watching a Once musical, we approached it like a fan. What would the fans want to see and who would they want to see sing?"

They didn't specify which fan.  And nothing indicates that they have any idea what fans want to see the rest of the time so why would this be any different.

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"Well, you know you never know," he teased when we pointed out that many fans would love to see a Captain Swan song in the mix. "It's a show about hope, Leanne, and if you have enough of it, it might happen!"

Which is shifting the responsibility to viewers.  You didn't have enough hope so no duet.

I saw nothing in here that didn't sound just like their usual MO with script teases of Hook's one line in the episode or the interviews where they evade questions by pretending as if they have no control over the writing process.

[KingOfHearts]

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They didn't specify which fan.  And nothing indicates that they have any idea what fans want to see the rest of the time so why would this be any different.

A&E: "We don't listen to fans, but we approach it from their perspective."

[Souris]

I honestly can't read quotes from A&E anymore without wanting to slap them.

[Kktjones]

I do find it rather interesting that virtually all the spoilers/articles coming out are focused on the musical episode. There was one story about the premiere ep/wish realm, but that's about it. No one seems to be talking about how they will resolve the Regina/EQ split, Gideon, the return of Jasmine & Aladdin, etc. I realize they will do more promotion about some of the storylines when the relevant episode is airing, but right now no one seems to really care about any of these other stories. They've already jumped to the penultimate episode.

As for today's article, I appreciate Leanne's attempt to raise excitement, but she really didn't report anything that the fandom didn't already know. And yes, I think Adam & Eddy were definitely trolling with a number of their quotes. I am keeping my expectation around the "MOST ROMANTIC MOMENT EVA", the engagement, wedding, and a CS duet very, very low.

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

And nothing indicates that they have any idea what fans want to see the rest of the time so why would this be any different.

So. much. this.

[Curio]

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And nothing indicates that they have any idea what fans want to see the rest of the time so why would this be any different.

Right? In fact, most of their decisions seem to be based on the opposite of what fans want to see. "These fans won't shut up about wanting to see 40 minutes of kissing and domestic scenes. Let's not give them that at all. But wait, what would the fans want to see in a musical episode? Oh, I know! A rehash of Regina v Snowing Round 983745023. Yeah, that's definitely what the fans want, not what we want..."

[PixiePaws1]

Just read a pretty cool theory that apparently originated in the Rumbelle fandom..not sure who or would give them full credit 

The Black Fairy and the Blue Fairy could be 2 halves of one whole like Regina/EQ...could explain a lot..!

[RulerofallIsurvey]

14 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

At least they pretty much confirmed that there will be a CS song, unless they were being trolls again...

Like others have already said, I'm leaning toward trolls.  

13 hours ago, Curio said:

It's not that I'm unhappy about it, it's more that I'm disappointed at the road getting to this point. We were all waiting for Emma to finally say "I love you" to Killian in Season 4, but I don't think many people were happy with the way Emma said it and the situation it was said in. I fear the same will happen with this engagement and marriage. How much can I really enjoy a moment I've been waiting years for if for 38 minutes of the episode Emma is off with Regina and Gideon, but then in the final 2 minutes there's a rushed scene where Emma and Killian finally get to squeeze in a proposal or wedding? After the Season 4 "Heroes and Villains" ending, the "Did Emma Save the Town or Regina" debate where even Morrison had to chime in, and the "Wish You Were Here" fiasco, this show has sucked all hope out of me and I only expect the worst now. Sure, any CS engagement or wedding will put a smile on my face, but compared to what those scenes could have been with the proper build up...it's just sad to think about. And if we don't get a Season 7 and CS finishes the series without Emma and Hook having a proper TLK and without one of them being awoken from a sleeping curse, I'll feel like I wasted a lot of time investing in this show expecting an obvious outcome only for the creators to dink around and rush everything at the last second because they were too cocky about a renewal.

This right here^^.  

And with this quote from A&E:

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"What I can tease is that this second half will, probably, have the most romantic moment between those two in the six seasons of the show," Kitsis dished.

I fear you are right about it being rushed.  What we'll see is a moment.  (And only one.  A brief one.) where Killian proposes.  And then Emma has to rush off to be with Regina for xyz reason.  

10 hours ago, Kktjones said:

I do find it rather interesting that virtually all the spoilers/articles coming out are focused on the musical episode. There was one story about the premiere ep/wish realm, but that's about it. No one seems to be talking about how they will resolve the Regina/EQ split, Gideon, the return of Jasmine & Aladdin, etc.

Because nobody cares about the EQ, Gideon, the BF, Not!Robin.  Etc.  Oh, I'm sure A&E do - and would LUV to talk about them if they could.  But ET and other entertainment news sources know what their viewers want.  And it isn't what A&E have been serving this year so far.  

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You hear that, Oncers? The musical episode is not going to be some kind of a dream sequence or an alternate reality. It's going to be a "real Once Upon a Time episode" and a key part in progressing the storyline of the series forward.

So a curse then?  I mean, why else is everyone suddenly bursting out into singing and dancing when for 6 years they haven't.

[Selina K]

16 hours ago, Curio said:

I would lean towards trolling. There's probably a group song where everybody sings at the same time, so technically Hook and Emma will be singing together, but not as a solo duet.

Preach. This would be right out of their playbook.

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How much can I really enjoy a moment I've been waiting years for if for 38 minutes of the episode Emma is off with Regina and Gideon, but then in the final 2 minutes there's a rushed scene where Emma and Killian finally get to squeeze in a proposal or wedding?

Let me fix this for you, Curio:

" ... but then in the final 22 seconds there's a rushed scene where Emma and Killian finally get to squeeze in a proposal or wedding, so then Emma can go have shots with Regina and apologize for ever being happy if Regina is sad.

#nevernotbitter #season4A

[Kktjones]

7 minutes ago, Selina K said:

apologize for ever being happy if Regina is sad

Oh no. This is definitely going to happen, isn't it? You know that Emma will feel guilty b/c Regina lost Robin again. PLEASE don't let her turn down Hook's initial proposal because of it. I will flip every table in my house...

[Mathius]

Karen David confirmed on Twitter that she is NOT in the musical episode.  And there was this tweet back in January.

So Aladdin and Jasmine, and their story nobody cares about, will be part of the season, possibly series, finale.

Joy.

[Curio]

12 minutes ago, Mathius said:

Karen David confirmed on Twitter that she is NOT in the musical episode.

Of course. When you hire a Galavant actress, it makes sense not to use her in the musical episode. TS;TW logic.

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So Aladdin and Jasmine, and their story nobody cares about, will be part of the season, possibly series, finale.

Come on, give me a solo CS adventure to Agrabah...Season 3 finale vibes...where's a monkey's paw when you need it?

[Mathius]

On the one hand, the season did open with Aladdin and it's tied in with the whole Emma-Savior plot thread, so I guess it makes sense to have it feature in the finale.  But on the other hand, it's just been so poorly done!  Unless 6x15 changes my mind, I don't care about Agrabah, at all.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Mathius

[sharky]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

Of course. When you hire a Galavant actress, it makes sense not to use her in the musical episode. TS;TW logic.

Yeah, but the alternative would be to have A&E try to stuff an Aladdin story into an episode where it wouldn't fit. If they're doing a musical episode finally, I don't want they junking it up with even more crap than the crap they've probably already put in there.

[Souris]

Adam replied to a fan on Twitter that they're writing only one version of the finale. He's since deleted that reply, naturally.

[KingOfHearts]

5 minutes ago, Souris said:

Adam replied to a fan on Twitter that they're writing only one version of the finale. He's since deleted that reply, naturally.

Would that imply they have a pretty good idea of whether or not they're getting a 7th season?

[Curio]

50 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Would that imply they have a pretty good idea of whether or not they're getting a 7th season?

I think it implies that they're writing this as if it could serve as a series finale, but whatever epilogue they tag on can either be just a series-ending epilogue or a teaser for what's to come in Season 7.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Curio

[ParadoxLost]

4 hours ago, Curio said:

I think it implies that they're writing this as if it could serve as a series finale, but whatever epilogue they tag on can either be just a series-ending epilogue or a teaser for what's to come in Season 7.

Its seemed pretty clear since they announced the epilogue that this is what they will do. 

I doubt they will even commit to what the impetus of the epilogue is in the finale.  It will be some vague danger or curse that can be tailored to how the contracts work out if the get renewed.

I'm starting to think that they could be going a "younger" direction on the reboot (think the CW) and there may be a couple cast members that stay (Regina and Hook) as the token adults and the rest are the kids of fairy tale characters.

[sharky]

I've been thinking this too. Someone else mentioned Nashville's move to CMT. I wonder if they'll try to reboot Once as a Freeform show with Lana and a new Henry or something if they can't make it work on ABC for one more season.

[Mathius]

6 hours ago, Curio said:

I think it implies that they're writing this as if it could serve as a series finale, but whatever epilogue they tag on can either be just a series-ending epilogue or a teaser for what's to come in Season 7.

Yes, exactly. They're basically writing a series finale with a sequel/spinoff/reboot hook, and it's ABC's choice whether to follow through or not.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Mathius

[maryle]

First, I have zero excitment for the premiere much more curious about the rating.

But, what bother me is the actual feeling to being played as a fans by A and E this year.

Because, they knew about the contract renewal and I believe they are the one pushing for a reboot or spin off much more than ABC. So, this year should be the farewell year for the show has the fans love it and support it all this year.

[sharky]

I don't think they went into it thinking it was the farewell season. Sure, contracts are a factor, but they would easily renegotiate contracts with good ratings. But ratings went fractional so A&E seem to be scrambling now to play out all scenarios as just in cases.

I finally watched the new episode. Overall, I think it sets up a decent 6B arc or at least a general peg for the rest of the season but not sure how all these pieces will fit together as the season progresses. 

[KingOfHearts]

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I finally watched the new episode. Overall, I think it sets up a decent 6B arc or at least a general peg for the rest of the season but not sure how all these pieces will fit together as the season progresses. 

It's almost as if the show doesn't premiere for another week, seeing as I know everything that happens in the first episode.

I noticed in the Periscope recording, the Woegina theme plays. It's the one where she either misses Daniel or no one wants to eat her lasagna. Typically it's associated with Daniel, but not all the time.

Edited March 2, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[scenicbyway]

Oh goodie.  Zelena has a solo in the musical episode!  Just what we 've all been waiting for....said NO ONE EVER!

[CCTC]

I like Zelina and the actress, but she never should have been made a regular character.  They did not need another villain-redemption story and the cast and they already were having a hard time utilizing the entire cast.  I would have been ok with her surviving and going back to Oz and coming back to wreak havoc from time to time as  true villain, but there was no need to try to fit her in as a full time character to try and fit in another gray character.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm really glad she's getting a solo. She'll rock it. She's been my favorite character for a while, and she works so much better as a regular than a straight-up villain. She would deserve more things to do if A&E were more committed to her arc.

Edited March 2, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

Are we going to see more Saviors other than Emma and Aladdin?
KITSIS: Yes, we will see another Savior other than them this year.
HOROWITZ: We will. Put us down for a yes.

My guess is Regina becomes the Savior after Emma dies or "dies."

[Curio]

This might be the most useless Hot Seat yet. What's the point in having a Hot Seat if 90% of the answers are "can't say"?

Also, if Season 6 is the final season, Hook will be the only main character in the cast (including Zelena) where we'll never meet his mother. We've even met Belle and Zelena's mothers...

[KingOfHearts]

A&E just broke the record for how many "can't says" they can put in a hot seat. They didn't take my question from Reddit. :(

What a pointless article.

[Curio]

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Will we ever see Regina use the power of light magic again?
KITSIS: I would say that Regina is such a reformed character that her magic is often a blend of both.

I would say that if the audience can't tell when a character uses dark or light magic, that's an issue with the writing and world building. Regina's so reformed that she's been using light magic all along, you just couldn't tell! Except that one time she needed to use dark magic to send her sister away in a tornado, which they've never bothered explaining. You can't just "feel" like something is the way it is and not explain it. For all we know, they might "feel" like Charming uses unicorn tears to gel his hair, but unless we actually see it explained on screen it doesn't mean anything.

And sorry, but if you have to say "[Character] is such a reformed character" ...they might not actually be that reformed.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Curio

[cappoe]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

Are we going to see more Saviors other than Emma and Aladdin?
KITSIS: Yes, we will see another Savior other than them this year.
HOROWITZ: We will. Put us down for a yes.

My guess is Regina becomes the Savior after Emma dies or "dies."

My money is Gideon but it won't be because Emma dies. Cause I don't see Emma dying.

Edited March 3, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

I think the CS daughter is the new savior.

[cappoe]

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think the CS daughter is the new savior.

That would be really cool.

[PixiePaws1]

10 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think the CS daughter is the new savior.

That was straight where my thoughts went!

[maryle]

As long as the Savior is not Regina!

Could be Gideon orTiger Lily for what I know. But, I will like to be link to the Savior mythology. 

I saw people assuming that the answer about Hook' mothers not this year prove that at least Colin will be back. Others are saying that probably Jen. I will love to be so optimistic but I am not sure to took as a confirmation of anything. 

[KingOfHearts]

When I first read about the third Savior, my thoughts immediately went to the CS Baby.

[Curio]

11 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

When I first read about the third Savior, my thoughts immediately went to the CS Baby.

Which of course means it won't be the CS baby.

[Souris]

51 minutes ago, maryle said:

As long as the Savior is not Regina!

Could be Gideon orTiger Lily for what I know. But, I will like to be link to the Savior mythology. 

I saw people assuming that the answer about Hook' mothers not this year prove that at least Colin will be back. Others are saying that probably Jen. I will love to be so optimistic but I am not sure to took as a confirmation of anything. 

It was kind of a mixed message, because Eddy gave a flat "No" to that question but Adam said "Not this year." So I don't think it confirmed anything at all. 

My thinking is that if there's a new Savior, it will be somebody who would definitely be in the series next season. Gideon is getting so much screentime in 6B, I wouldn't be surprised if he returns if there's a S7. But I also can't fathom Regina NOT being in the next season, so I think she's a strong possibility.

1 hour ago, cappoe said:

My money is Gideon but it won't be because Emma dies. Cause I don't see Emma dying.

It will probably be dependent on whether JMo returns next season. I think she will "die" but be revived, but the act of dying will release her from being the Savior. (Kind of like how Buffy briefly dying at the end of S1 called up a second Slayer.) Or perhaps her dearest BFF Regina will take the burden from Emma so she'll be free of it.

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

My thinking is that if there's a new Savior, it will be somebody who would definitely be in the series next season. Gideon is getting so much screentime in 6B, I wouldn't be surprised if he returns if there's a S7. But I also can't fathom Regina NOT being in the next season, so I think she's a strong possibility.

I didn't think it was much of a mystery.  Its one of the two characters in the epilogue.  I presume the guy we are guessing is Henry since it seems like such a blatant redux of the Emma/Henry start of this show for the reboot.

[Rumsy4]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

Sneak Peek

I like discount!Baelfire. In fact, I'm going to pretend this is grown-up Baelfire, and Douchefire never happened. 

Rumple's dialogue seemed like a mix of Ben Linus from LOST (destiny is a fickle bitch) and Walter Bishop from Fringe (be a better man than your father). 

[Souris]

Take it FWIW from a creepy set stalker, Jen is auditioning for other projects and Colin is still under contract. 

[Curio]

I know that source isn't the most reliable, but I wouldn't blame Jen for wanting to move on. If she loves Emma as much as she says she does, it's probably disheartening for her to see her character wane in importance over the years. It also must sting as an actress to be hired on as the lead character in Season 1 (and supposedly be the character who drives the action in the show) only to watch her co-star take over the show and become the creators' muse. If there is a Season 7, I'd at least want Emma to make a special guest star appearance a couple times. 

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I presume the guy we are guessing is Henry since it seems like such a blatant redux of the Emma/Henry start of this show for the reboot.

That's what I was thinking. Henry is more likely based on them thinking themselves clever for perfectly repeating the start of the series and because Henry as the Author is one of their self-insert wish fulfillment characters, so they wouldn't be able to resist also making him a Savior. Besides, if the girl is the Savior, she wouldn't need to come looking for Henry to bring him to town.

[KingOfHearts]

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I like discount!Baelfire. In fact, I'm going to pretend this is grown-up Baelfire, and Douchefire never happened. 

Gideon and Rumple look totally like father/son, much more than with Neal. He'll probably be a better outlet for Rumple than Belle, even if it's his father's final days. Part of me is intrigued, but the other moans at more Rumple angst. Just kill him already.

Edited March 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

If the new guy is aged-up Henry, then probably something bad happens to his family to leave him in that state. A show about hope, everyone!

I'm feeling like the only current regulars who will return next season are Regina and Hook.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Souris

[Curio]

12 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That's what I was thinking. Henry is more likely based on them thinking themselves clever for perfectly repeating the start of the series and because Henry as the Author is one of their self-insert wish fulfillment characters, so they wouldn't be able to resist also making him a Savior. 

And of course you know A&E can't resist making Emma and Neal canon True Love because the Savior is supposed to be the product of True Love.

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Besides, if the girl is the Savior, she wouldn't need to come looking for Henry to bring him to town.

I'm hoping it's a scenario where the girl doesn't realize she's the Savior because she just assumes it's Henry, but by the end of the season, she goes through a Hero's Journey and realizes she was the Savior all along.

[KingOfHearts]

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And of course you know A&E can't resist making Emma and Neal canon True Love because the Savior is supposed to be the product of True Love.

I wouldn't overthink what makes a Savior. It's not well-established at all. Supposedly Emma was special because she was a Product of True Love, but then there were other True Love babies that weren't Saviors, and then we learned her fetus was lobotomized, and who knows what Aladdin's origins are.

[Rumsy4]

28 minutes ago, Curio said:

I'm hoping it's a scenario where the girl doesn't realize she's the Savior because she just assumes it's Henry, but by the end of the season, she goes through a Hero's Journey and realizes she was the Savior all along.

Agreed. Besides, A&E do love to portray "strong women(TM)". 

41 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Gideon and Rumple look totally like father/son, much more than with Neal. He'll probably be a better outlet for Rumple than Belle, even if it's his father's final days. Part of me is intrigued, but the other moans at more Rumple angst. 

I feel like A&E are scrambling to make up for all the missed opportunities with Neal/Rumple with Gideon aka Baelfire 2.0. It seems like a puzzling decision to me. Besides, Rumple's lines about confronting his father could be equally applied to his "mother". So, we don't just have Baelfire 2.0, but also Pan 2.0 in the Black Fairy. Pan abandoned his son and took his grandson. So did the Black Fairy. Pan was portrayed as unredeemable and worse than Rumple. The BF is being portrayed the same way. Even with A&E's obsession with parallels, this storyline seems like an exact redo of the past. Very likely Rumple will die again to save his family from the BF.

It was disturbing when Rumple grabbed his son, and then hit him to provoke him. It's very much a reflection of him ripping Milah's heart, freezing Belle multiple times and stalking her, etc.. He's the same abusive controlling asshole, and no amount of self-loathing angst is going to change that. I don't have an issue with disturbing storylines/characters per se, but A&E are clearly trying to woobify Rumple with this storyline, and it just doesn't cut it with me. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

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I don't have an issue with disturbing storylines/characters per se, but A&E are clearly trying to woobify Rumple with this storyline, and it just doesn't cut it with me. 

This. Rumple has always been an abusive, disturbing character. I don't particularly hate that. Even though 3A woobified him quite a bit, he sacrificed himself and avoided that behavior for a while, so there were less implications. Here, he's trying to get his son back while still in a toxic relationship with Belle. He's not trying to redeem himself, yet we're meant to feel sorry for him.

Edited March 3, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Here, he's trying to get his son back while still in a toxic relationship with Belle. He's not trying to redeem himself.

Besides, he's offering to help his son kill Emma. He could be lying in order to bond with his son, but Rumple has attempted to kill and/or destroy Emma in the past. So, why should I give him the benefit of the doubt?