Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

Hollywood Reporter has the new network promo up, and it looks like a lot of those filming shots that had us scratching our heads were shot for the promo and probably are not actual episode scenes, including the bit with Emma in her red jacket standing next to Regina in Evil Queen mode and Hook coming out of a doorway as Elsa passes and acting like he's spying on her.

 

So now we may need to retool any theories based on those spoilers.

[daxx]

Hollywood Reporter has the new network promo up, and it looks like a lot of those filming shots that had us scratching our heads were shot for the promo and probably are not actual episode scenes, including the bit with Emma in her red jacket standing next to Regina in Evil Queen mode and Hook coming out of a doorway as Elsa passes and acting like he's spying on her.

 

So now we may need to retool any theories based on those spoilers.

Several people on tumblr already assumed those shots were promos. Made sense when they mentioned it.

[NotBothered]

I think the only thing we didn't know (or I didn't know) was promo related was the shot of Hook outside of the Rabbit Hole.

Count me in on wishing for more world crossover. When they announced Bleeding Through I got very very excited, but of course that is not what we ended up with.

[retrograde]

I can see it happening eventually, but I doubt very much it will be this season. Still, I would enjoy the hell out of a season (or even half season) with no specific big bad, but just new fairytale people and things coming and going from all different realms every episode. Especially if they brought back the idea of the rest of the real world finding out or being curious about Storybrooke, and trying to keep all the crazy crap under control so outsiders don't figure it all out. 

 

(I think I basically want Eureka with fairytales)

 

Meanwhile, Prince Phillip just got cast in a recurring guest spot on New Girl, in case you were still hoping there'd be any Aurora/Philip this season. (Maybe she and Snow can start a mother's group, though).

Edited September 1, 2014 by retrograde

[NotBothered]

Well I guess I am excited for New Girl now?

I am worried about them doing Malificent without Aurora and Phillip. I get that we are remixing fairy tales, but they loose a lot of power when you divorce things completely from their original context.

[retrograde]

I haven't watched New Girl for awhile, but my memory is that Jess's romantic interests don't tend to last that long. But yeah, the show would wanna lock those actors down now if they do plan on involving them. 

[Rumsy4]

I am worried about them doing Malificent without Aurora and Phillip. I get that we are remixing fairy tales, but they loose a lot of power when you divorce things completely from their original context.

 

It's s shame we never found out Aurora's story, or how they got Phillip back from the wraith. But maybe they'll go with Aurora's parents, and just cast new people.

 

New Teaser promo with Elsa--the Captain Swan version. hehe

Edited September 1, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Hookian]

Did you guys see the spoilers from Dragon Con?

 

They said that we may have a lot of worlds mixed in this season.

 

Sean said that he couldn't say anything but he's very excited for S4. He said the relationship between him and Knave is gonna be interesting. He said in response to OQ that it has to get worse before it gets better. Which goes in line with what many here have said. He's gonna choose Marian because he's a man of honor but that won't stop him from loving Regina. Not to mention I'll be shocked if Marian's still here after 4A. So essentially Marian is simply an obstacle. She doesn't stand a chance pretty much. 

 

Sean also said he's been filming a lot but I guess that must be indoors. Anyway sounds like he may be in every episode so far.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Hookian

[Crimson Belle]

Given the pace of this show, probably an hour or so has gone by from 4.04 to 4.08, so Hook probably wears the same outfit for about 8 episodes

[snarkastic]

New Teaser promo with Elsa--the Captain Swan version. hehe

 

So the "Frozen?" part is when Grumpy runs up and interrupts the Hook/Emma talk, and the "Well, that's a new one" looks like Emma is looking up at Marshmallow/some other snow monstrosity, yes/yes? That's all I got. Nothing new :(

[Hookian]

Given the pace of this show, probably an hour or so has gone by from 4.04 to 4.08, so Hook probably wears the same outfit for about 8 episodes

I think that his outfit is likely here to stay. People have wanted him in normal clothes since late S2. He's probably just gonna get more choice clothing but I personally think he's gonna be wearing these clothes from now on. No more 50 pound pirate jacket.

[retrograde]

If that's the case, I hope they at least change the outfits up like they do for every other character. It would be even weirder that he never changes his clothes with modern duds.

[myril]

Did you guys see the spoilers from Dragon Con?

 

They said that we may have a lot of worlds mixed in this season.

 

 

Would be cautious about what they said there on the panels and what it's worth as spoilers. They said as well on the panel, that the writers don't tell them what is coming, The actors might be informed about important development for their own characters, but not about the overarching plans in detail. Too bad there is no video of that panel, but from what I gathered it was Beverly Elliot who said something about "worlds weaving together", and as much as I like her and her character, she might have some speculation on what's going to happen, but she doesn't know that much. I would even say it's not much different from the speculations fans are doing, If it was any kind of outlook on the upcoming season at all, Beverly could very well have said that more in a general sense on what Once does.

 

Here the relevant tweets:

https://twitter.com/HopeMullinax/status/506132913529057280

https://twitter.com/HopeMullinax/status/506137431868190720

 

With the Knave around, who is connected to Wonderland, the Frozen folks, and some people see that as a world on its own though it might be just a part of the Enchanted Forest world, the always given connection of Enchanted Forest and Storybrooke of course there are "worlds weaving together". Shouldn't get hopes up, or fears, that we're going on a wild round trip through more of the storybook/fairy tale worlds.

[NotBothered]

Well I just reread that New Girl spoiler, and I don't think that will affect his being able to show up on OUAT too much.  The longest one of Jess's love interests has stuck around was a 1/2 season, and usually they're only one for a handful of episodes.  It sounds like this arc will be during 4A, so assuming that OUAT isn't filming significantly further in advance than New Girl, he could just pop over at the break.

 

That being said, I think that "world mixing" comment is likely in reference to what we have all been worried about -- too many plots.  We have regular OUAT, we have Frozen, we have Robin Hood, and we have OUTiW all going at the same time.  I'm sure it also means that we are going to find out that Maleficent is also some other villain, which would help if it turns out Aurora and Phillip are not heavily featured in 4B.

[Souris]

Adam has tweeted the Ep. 6 title: Family Business.

 

I'm guessing it refers to Henry working in Gold's shop.

[retrograde]

Per Adam, 4.06 is called "Family Business"

 

ETA: Sorry somehow missed this had been posted.

 

I agree it probably includes the Henry thing (this is the one with the girl his age, too, right?), but I bet it is also meant figuratively about one family and their goingson (Elsa/Anna/Kristoff? Charmings?)

Edited September 1, 2014 by retrograde

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm guessing it refers to Henry working in Gold's shop.

 

I thought of that. Or we have more family relation twists coming up.

[RadioGirl27]

I thought of that. Or we have more family relation twists coming up.

Isn't episode 6 the one where we will meet Belle's mom?

[maryle]

There something I'm asking myself if they really doing centric like they used to because the episode we already have spoiler seem really full. The 6 some believe is the Belle centric with Henry working at the shop? Maybe Belle mother is link to the snowqueen ?

[Serena]

Isn't episode 6 the one where we will meet Belle's mom?

Yes, that's the ep. Maybe Belle's mom is in trade? Someone from the merchant class that marries up? I knew we'll see mom, but will Emilie-as-Belle be in the flashbacks? The fact that we haven't got any casting for young Belle means that either the flashbacks will take place before she's born, or the mom died when Belle was already a grownup - which is quite a deviation for the original B&B story.

[Souris]

TVLine preview:

 

Lest you think that the introduction of Queen Elsa (Fringe’s Georgina Haig), Anna et al is mere Disney/ABC synergy, series cocreator Adam Horowitz makes clear that where Emma and her fellow Storybrookers “found themselves coming out of Season 3 is incredibly relevant to what the Frozen story is. There are things about Anna and Elsa that resonate within our own characters.” (But wait, wasn’t almost everyone happy when last we tuned in? “That’s what the premiere is for,” taunts Eddy Kitsis.) All told, Season 4’s theme is “Never give up on the people you love” — a notion that perhaps has particular significance for Regina, whose nascent romance with Robin Hood is detoured by Marian’s “resurrection.” Says Kitsis, “It’s going to be complicated and messy, but we hope it’s a hot mess.” Elsewhere, “past history” will test Emma and Hook’s own new relationship, an early episode delves into Belle’s pre-Rumple life and mild-mannered Mary Margaret is going to be presented with “much more responsibility” than just new motherhood.

 

    BONUS SPOILER | Speaking of the Frozen contingent, Kitsis teases, “Somebody [in Storybrooke] will be unhappy to see them, and somebody will be thrilled to see them.”

[stealinghome]

Barf. Haven't we been fighting for the people we love for 3 seasons now? (Also, Outlaw Queen is so bad, GET THEM OFF MY SCREEN.)

Wonder if Snow's gonna take over being mayor officially? Can't think of what extra responsibility there could be otherwise.

Edited September 2, 2014 by stealinghome

[Souris]

Wonder if Snow's gonna take over being mayor officially? Can't think of what extra responsibility there could be otherwise.

 

That's an interesting thought. I couldn't think what they meant. That would give her something to do besides just taking care of the baby.

[Shanna Marie]

Wonder if Snow's gonna take over being mayor officially?

It's about time that town had a real election, and I can't imagine Regina would be elected if there was a choice.

 

Though Snow would actually be a terrible mayor because she's a lot more concerned with feeling like a good person than she is with doing what's right for everyone else. Unfortunately, this show seems to see that as a virtue.

[Souris]

I'm assuming the "past history" that tests Captain Swan is what JMo alluded to at Comic Con, the internal issues dealing with her past that the fandom has decided is her magic perhaps hurting people.

[KingOfHearts]

It's about time that town had a real election, and I can't imagine Regina would be elected if there was a choice.

 

I don't think Storybrookers really care who's mayor. Most of them already see Snow and Charming as their authority anyway (See: Diner speech). If Regina tried to pull rank, they wouldn't give a flip unless she threatened them with magic. If they really wanted someone else to do things like budgeting though, which I doubt because this show is so allergic to Storybrooke town affairs, they could probably hold an election. 

 

I'd vote Regina over Snow for mayor any day, by the way.

I actually think Charming or Emma would make for better mayor candidates over Snow and Regina.

 

Would they really be the paperwork-politician types though? Charming said himself, "Snow did all the talking, I did the fighting."

“Never give up on the people you love”

 

All the angst in the world is coming with this statement. Dagger, CS drama, Triangle of Doom, you name it. This is going to be one dramatic season half for sure.

Edited September 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Though Snow would actually be a terrible mayor because she's a lot more concerned with feeling like a good person than she is with doing what's right for everyone else. 

 

Why do I have this awful feeling that if the show went that route, Snow would beat Regina in the election, but because of how bad Snow feels about the whole Robin/Marian situation and doesn't want to make Regina even more sad, she gives up her spot to Regina anyways. (Oh god, I've jinxed it, haven't I? I'm so sorry, everyone.)

 

I actually think Charming or Emma would make for better mayor candidates over Snow and Regina.

[RadioGirl27]

TVLine preview:

 

Lest you think that the introduction of Queen Elsa (Fringe’s Georgina Haig), Anna et al is mere Disney/ABC synergy, series cocreator Adam Horowitz makes clear that where Emma and her fellow Storybrookers “found themselves coming out of Season 3 is incredibly relevant to what the Frozen story is. There are things about Anna and Elsa that resonate within our own characters.” (But wait, wasn’t almost everyone happy when last we tuned in? “That’s what the premiere is for,” taunts Eddy Kitsis.) All told, Season 4’s theme is “Never give up on the people you love” — a notion that perhaps has particular significance for Regina, whose nascent romance with Robin Hood is detoured by Marian’s “resurrection.” Says Kitsis, “It’s going to be complicated and messy, but we hope it’s a hot mess.” Elsewhere, “past history” will test Emma and Hook’s own new relationship, an early episode delves into Belle’s pre-Rumple life and mild-mannered Mary Margaret is going to be presented with “much more responsibility” than just new motherhood.

 

BONUS SPOILER | Speaking of the Frozen contingent, Kitsis teases, “Somebody [in Storybrooke] will be unhappy to see them, and somebody will be thrilled to see them.”

Nope, still not interested in the Frozen stuff, Belle's past or the Triangle of Doom. I'm even loosing interest in Emma and Hook.

Edited September 2, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

Snow as mayor wouldn't be great for the town, though Storybrooke and the EF are totally different.  I think Charming would be much better at it.  He is pragmatic and pretty level headed. 

 

I guess whoever is happy with the Frozen gang is the person who knows them and I'm assuming that it might be someone who doesn't have much of a connection to Storybrooke or tons of friends.

 

I'm assuming Rumple is the one who isn't happy to see those guys pop up (right there with you, buddy!)

[retrograde]

I actually read a spoiler on the tumblrs a few weeks back that Grumpy insists Snow should be mayor, and then later Snow shows up at Regina's asking how she managed mayorhood and motherhood at the same time (ugh). I didn't post it because i couldn't find a source, but it sounded somewhat legit just because it's a weird thing to make up. Now I'm gonna go ahead and say it's pretty likely?

[YaddaYadda]

Was Regina even still mayor after the original curse was broken?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Was Regina even still mayor after the original curse was broken?

She got kicked out I think. (In The Doctor Regina is seen packing up her office) But I think she's the mayor again in Curse 2, because David makes a comment about her putting money in the town budget for fixing Henry's street damage from driving the pickup.

 

If Snow becomes mayor, I will be so ticked. It'll be the flip-floppiest town in all of Maine. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I think Snow and Regina would suck as mayors. Charms would be great, if he stopped listening to Snow. Emma needs to remain the Sheriff, IMO.

The extra responsibility Snow has is probably placating Regina over the triangle of doom.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Serena]

I actually read a spoiler on the tumblrs a few weeks back that Grumpy insists Snow should be mayor, and then later Snow shows up at Regina's asking how she managed mayorhood and motherhood at the same time (ugh). I didn't post it because i couldn't find a source, but it sounded somewhat legit just because it's a weird thing to make up. Now I'm gonna go ahead and say it's pretty likely?

Seriously? By being a terrible mother and being mayor of a brainwashed town that runs itself, that's how.

[stealinghome]

Though Snow would actually be a terrible mayor because she's a lot more concerned with feeling like a good person than she is with doing what's right for everyone else. Unfortunately, this show seems to see that as a virtue.

Ha, right??? If there is an election and Snow wins, that might ultimately be the most unbelievable thing about this entire show. :) Charming, Emma, Granny, Red, even Belle winning? Sure, I could roll with that. Snow winning after she's had 349640585 chances to stop Regina's reign of terror and never did a damn thing about her? No way!

 

Doubtless, though, if they make Snow mayor she'll be terrible at it so that the writers can have her going to Regina and asking for help/resigning in favor of Regina. Because Regina is just so awesome at everything, don't ya know? (Seriously though, if they do have Snow going to Regina for advice I will puke. Because Regina is such a shining example of doing that right.)

 

Would they really be the paperwork-politician types though? Charming said himself, "Snow did all the talking, I did the fighting."

I don't know, Charming seemed to run the town well enough in 2A. I think he (and Emma) default to letting Snow do the talking, but I don't think that means either would be incapable of being mayor if they were elected to the position. There might be some growing pains, sure, but both Emma and Charming tend to rise to the occasion.

 

I also, though, think it depends on what exactly being "mayor" entails.

 

The extra responsibility Snow has is probably placating Regina over the triangle of doom.

God knows that will be a full-time job in and of itself, true.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I also, though, think it depends on what exactly being "mayor" entails.

 

I'm no politician, but don't mayors usually just work on paperwork and town budgets? Regina pulled a lot of authority in S1 that no mayor should ever have realistically. Snow and Charming come from a monarchy world where the rulers have power over pretty much everything. Being mayor is very, very different from the take-charge mentality they're used to. I could see Charming being a great sheriff or deputy, but I don't see him as a big people's person. He, Hook and Emma should totally be the police force threesome bringing the law down on this crazy town. 

 

But for what it's worth I'll take him over Snow only if he doesn't listen to a word Snow says.

 

 

a notion that perhaps has particular significance for Regina, whose nascent romance with Robin Hood is detoured by Marian’s “resurrection.” Says Kitsis, “It’s going to be complicated and messy, but we hope it’s a hot mess.”

 

Regina should just skip town for a couple weeks at least. Rent Emma's old NY apartment or something. Go somewhere where no one has a beef with her. Anything to stop the Triangle of Doom!

Edited September 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[NotBothered]

I'm no politician, but don't mayors usually just work on paperwork and town budgets? Regina pulled a lot of authority in S1 that no mayor should ever have realistically. Snow and Charming come from a monarchy world where the rulers have power over pretty much everything.

Well they don't seem to have a city council and I wouldn't be surprised if Regina set up the town charter in a way that would give the mayor increased authority.  And in places where the mayor doesn't have much power, it does have a large ceremonial role, which is pretty similar to modern monarchies.

 

Of course, I also come from Chicago, where historically the mayor has pretty much had absolute power.  And even when there is a city council, they're generally responsible for setting the agenda and doing whatever an executive would.

 

ETA: But yes. I think this plot is stupid and Snow would make a TERRIBLE mayor.  But I guess this is a good way to keep her "important" without requiring her to do a lot of location shooting and filming at odd hours.

Edited September 2, 2014 by NotBothered

[Shanna Marie]

She got kicked out I think. (In The Doctor Regina is seen packing up her office) But I think she's the mayor again in Curse 2, because David makes a comment about her putting money in the town budget for fixing Henry's street damage from driving the pickup.

She was kicked out early in season 2, but then when Cora came to town Regina went back into the mayor's office (I guess no one had officially taken on the role?) and Regina seemed to have just assumed the job again because when Greg was in town, Regina was dealing with him as mayor. So she was out for about five minutes.

 

In the Enchanted Forest, they don't seem to have yet dealt with the fact that Snow is the rightful queen. Regina really would only be the dowager queen. As the consort of the king, she wouldn't have had any real authority, so in kicking Snow out and reigning, she was actually a usurper. But they're still calling Snow "princess." Or are they allergic to actually turning a princess into a queen because a Disney Princess is a thing while a Disney Queen isn't (or is usually evil)?

[stealinghome]

I just think any plot that makes Snow mayor is going to be pretty redundant. She and Charming have been running a kingdom for a few years now, and Snow was trained from birth to rule over a much larger place than Storybrooke. There really ought not to be much she doesn't know about being mayor (of course, there will be because plot>>>>>character on this show, but).

[KingOfHearts]

 

I just think any plot that makes Snow mayor is going to be pretty redundant. She and Charming have been running a kingdom for a few years now, and Snow was trained from birth to rule over a much larger place than Storybrooke. There really ought not to be much she doesn't know about being mayor (of course, there will be because plot>>>>>character on this show, but).

 

She and Regina were both raised with this, but that doesn't exactly make them fit to be rulers. You can teach someone a skill, but that doesn't mean they're good at it. You can look at Regina's execution or the diner speech to see that. 

[stealinghome]

Sure, but I guess I'm thinking more in terms of the day-to-day, balancing the budget stuff. Pretty sure medieval kings had to balance their checkbooks, too (even if so many of them were horrible at it!). Don't get me wrong, I think Snow is a bad ruler where the Big Stuff is concerned, but the show disagrees; therefore I think any mayoral struggles she has are going to be smaller things: budget, mediating opinions, etc. Which is the stuff Snow should be good at, or at least trained to do decently well, and presumably has done successfully for a few years now.

[maryle]

I hope will have some kind of a spoiler after the Frozen special so we'll have real scene to speculate from because there so many direction this season seem to go !!

they getting better with  keeping their big twist secrets, its bad for us!

[FurryFury]

Or are they allergic to actually turning a princess into a queen because a Disney Princess is a thing while a Disney Queen isn't (or is usually evil)?

 

Well, that actually changed with (ironically) Frozen - Elsa seems to be called a queen everywhere. I think the problem is, as usual, that the writers don't give a damn about their world, at all. So stuff like titles and the way Storybooke works on a daily basis is a mystery both for us and for them. They care about exciting, marketable stuff.

[KingOfHearts]

They care about exciting, marketable stuff.

 

Like Wicked vs. Evil, which worked so well!... nope, couldn't keep a straight face.

Edited September 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

If mean, since Elsa is actually a ruling queen, if they wanted they could have her & Snow talking about the responsabilities and such, but IDK if they would.

[FurryFury]

Like Wicked vs. Evil, which worked so well!... nope, couldn't keep a straight face.

 

They probably think it did, considering that the ratings didn't drop in 3B and many casual viewers (and Regina fans) seem to prefer it over 3A.

 

If mean, since Elsa is actually a ruling queen, if they wanted they could have her & Snow talking about the responsabilities and such, but IDK if they would.

 

I doubt Snow will get a one on one scene with anyone except Charming, Regina or Emma anytime soon. Actually, I'm not even sure about Emma.

Edited September 2, 2014 by FurryFury

[Serena]

Jamie Chung is officially available and has reached out to A&E:

Katherine: Please please tell me Mulan will be coming back to Once Upon a Time this season! I need to know what happened with her and Aurora.

From your lips…and Jamie Chung's to Adam Horowitz and Eddy Kitsis' ears…literally! "I personally reached out—I mean I'm not trying to pressure them or anything—but I was like, ‘You guys, I'm available! I would really love to work with you again!" Chung told me. "I love them and I hope the feeling is mutual but I don't know! I just don't know if it fits into their overall story arc. As you know, they have Frozen on this season so that's a very big deal. I guess it all just depends where the story goes but I've offered my services. And I let them know that I was definitely available and would love to come back. I feel like her storyline was kind of left up in the air." Of course, I had to ask if she would be down for a love triangle between Mulan, Aurora and Elsa…which would probably be the greatest love triangle to ever hit TV. "That would be great!" Chung said. So let's make it happen, Adam and Eddy!

x

If they don't have her on, something's fishy. Their official "we just lost her to NBC, guys!" excuse is no longer valid.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Serena

[KingOfHearts]

 

If they don't have her on, something's fishy. Their official "we just lost her to NBC, guys!" excuse is no longer valid.

Well, considering she's part of Robin Hood's Merry Men, her absence isn't exactly logical.

[Souris]

I'd love to see Mulan again, but there are so blessed many new characters already in 4A, I have trouble seeing how they could fit her in, apart from a throwaway moment like Aurora had in the finale. Now, 4B, I could see it happening more. But she'll probably have another job by then.

[stealinghome]

I think it's just another example of the writers getting tired of the new shiny toy when it isn't new and shiny anymore (read: other newer, shinier things have come along).

 

Also I wonder if they have heard the criticism of how they handled Sleeping Warrior and are a little afraid to bring Mulan back for that reason.