Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Rumsy4]

Again we do not know that Marian was executed by the Queen, that's your assumption. For all we know Marian could have very well found a means to escape that night and managed to die some other way. ...

That does not alter the timeline at all. You're confusing things when they don't have to be.

 

The timeline IMO is that Marian was held in the cell, sometime during the night she found a means to escape on her own. While she was fleeing from the castle something/someone killed her. In the alternate timeline Emma is the one that allowed them to escape, Marian did not have to escape on her own. Emma did it for them.

 

I am not confusing things. I am going by the simplest explanation possible. What you say in the subsequent paragraph is mere speculation. All I took from Adam's interview was that we will get an explanation as to why Robin thought he was responsible for Marian's death. It's hard for me to believe that Marian would have escaped from Regina's dungeon and been killed by someone else. I doubt A&E will complicate things by giving us flashbacks to a timeline that no longer exists. And I don't subscribe to the theory that Marian is really someone else in disguise. Again--I'm going by the simplest explanation.

[Souris]

I am not confusing things. I am going by the simplest explanation possible. What you say in the subsequent paragraph is mere speculation. All I took from Adam's interview was that we will get an explanation as to why Robin thought he was responsible for Marian's death. It's hard for me to believe that Marian would have escaped from Regina's dungeon and been killed by someone else. I doubt A&E will complicate things by giving us flashbacks to a timeline that no longer exists. And I don't subscribe to the theory that Marian is really someone else in disguise. Again--I'm going by the simplest explanation.

 

I agree with you. A&E told Lana that Regina killed Marian. Therefore, I believe that Regina killed Marian. There's been nothing to suggest that's not the case. I really don't like the idea that Marian isn't actually Marian. That would require so much precognitive hoop-jumping by the perpetrator that it makes no sense to me.

[RadioGirl27]

I agree with you Rumsy4 about Marian and Regina, but I think we should take this conversation to the speculation without spoilers thread, the Marian thread or the Regina thread.

Edited August 29, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Hookian]

I am not confusing things. I am going by the simplest explanation possible. What you say in the subsequent paragraph is mere speculation. All I took from Adam's interview was that we will get an explanation as to why Robin thought he was responsible for Marian's death. It's hard for me to believe that Marian would have escaped from Regina's dungeon and been killed by someone else. I doubt A&E will complicate things by giving us flashbacks to a timeline that no longer exists. And I don't subscribe to the theory that Marian is really someone else in disguise. Again--I'm going by the simplest explanation.

On this show you should know by now it's never ever simple. You haven't learned anything from these last 3 years?

[Souris]

Tidbit from DragonCon:

 

Giancarlo put emphasis on the fact that the Magic Mirror has magic... "Clue clue clue" he said. #OUAT #DragonCon #OnceUponATime

[KingOfHearts]

Sidney has magic...? I never thought of that. If he does, I wonder why he never was able to escape the asylum. I wonder if he's still vying for Regina's approval or not. Maybe he'll do something magical to get rid of a certain Happiness Ruiner.

 

I wonder if Gold has his lamp... then Marian just so happens to find it. Hehe.

Edited August 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

Perhaps his magic isn't as strong as Regina's, or Regina has some spell on the asylum that he couldn't break. Or she has him spellbound. (Pun intended.)

[YaddaYadda]

Isn't he a genie trapped in a mirror?  So he should have magical powers, no?

[NotBothered]

Man.  Time #2,803 when I wish I paid better attention to OUATiW.

 

Will was momentarily genied on OUATiW, but I honestly can't remember what the story was between him being bottled and him being freed. Cyrus did have powers even after Alice wished him free, but I believe he had powers prior to being tethered to the bottle.

 

So I guess the question is do you get any powers with the bottle, and if you do, do they remain after you're freed?  And did Sidney have any power prior to being trapped in his bottle? And is this another way they're going to loop Will into the story, or will that be way way too confusing for the viewers who didn't bother with the other show?

Edited August 29, 2014 by NotBothered

[KingOfHearts]

 

So I guess the question is do you get any powers with the bottle, and if you do, do they remain after you're freed?

 

They did not remain on OUATIW, as far as I know. Perhaps Sidney's powers come from being in the mirror? Maybe Regina puts him back into the mirror, so maybe she was being literal when she said "I need my mirror." I originally didn't expect there to be magic involved. I thought she was just going to have him kill/kidnap Marian then orchestrate a framing like he did with Kathryn in S1.

Edited August 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Crimson Belle]

 

On this show you should know by now it's never ever simple. You haven't learned anything from these last 3 years?

 

 

Actually, it's my experience that this show is simple.  Usually, it's the most obvious, simplistic thing that always happens.  There's never any complexity to it.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Crimson Belle

[RadioGirl27]

I don't know, Sidney having magic now sounds a lot as retconning to me.

[Rumsy4]

Maybe they just mean his magical ability to grant wishes as a genie? Which would be back considering Storybrooke has magic. Why he didn't use that ability for all of Season 2 and 3--who knows?!! lol

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maybe they just mean his magical ability to grant wishes as a genie? Which would be back considering Storybrooke has magic. Why he didn't use that ability for all of Season 2 and 3--who knows?!! lol

 

This baffles me, because he was freed by King Leopold. But later in the episode, he was able to grant his own wish to be with Regina forever. 

[retrograde]

From EW:

Have there been any new details regarding Hans on Once Upon a Time? — Erin

As suspected, “He has not been redeemed,” executive producer Edward Kitsis tells me. “He’s a sociopath.” Here’s something to chew on: Could he actually be behind Elsa’s imprisonment in Rumple’s vault? “That’s one of the mysteries that we intend to unfurl,” executive producer Adam Horowitz says, adding that Hans “still feels the weight of being the youngest of 12 brothers, and there’s a very good chance of seeing some of those 12 brothers.”

[KingOfHearts]

 

 “He’s a sociopath.” 

 

Interesting choice of words since that's exactly what their favorite queen is.

 

 

“still feels the weight of being the youngest of 12 brothers, and there’s a very good chance of seeing some of those 12 brothers.”

 

Let the family tree speculation begin! I'm hoping his kingdom is one of the ones we've seen on the show.

Edited August 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

Ugh, when it seemed things couldn't get worse, here comes Hans and his 12 brothers.

I'm hoping his kingdom is one of the ones we've seen on the show

I kind of hope he comes from the same kingdom as Hook. But really even that way I wouldn't be very interested.

Edited August 29, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

They did not remain on OUATIW, as far as I know. Perhaps Sidney's powers come from being in the mirror? Maybe Regina puts him back into the mirror, so maybe she was being literal when she said "I need my mirror."

 

Ooh, nice. Since I'm still preoccupied with the original Snow Queen story, I want to make this fit with the troll mirror in that, plus the "Breaking Glass" title. It feels to me like it's all connected.

[Jean]

They're calling Hans a sociopath? He's definitely Eva's brother and Snow's uncle then.

[sharky]

Regarding Sidney, he doesn't have to have magic to do something magical. Remember that Regina gave Hook the power to steal a heart. Perhaps she gives Sidney the power to do something to help her with regards to the Marian situation.

And yes, I do think Hook is somehow connected to Hans' kingdom, which may be why he seems to be willing to help Elsa. Perhaps it also explains why he wants his hand back. He may have let go of his revenge for Milah but maybe there's something about Hans and his brother's death that he hasn't been able to let go of.

[Mari]

They did not remain on OUATIW, as far as I know. Perhaps Sidney's powers come from being in the mirror? Maybe Regina puts him back into the mirror, so maybe she was being literal when she said "I need my mirror." I originally didn't expect there to be magic involved. I thought she was just going to have him kill/kidnap Marian then orchestrate a framing like he did with Kathryn in S1.

The magic in the mirror theory would work, but there could be a tiny bit of wiggle room in how each genie was made free.  When Sidney was directly wished free--did he stop being a genie?  On OUATiW, the genie wasn't wished free, it was the by product of another wish.  Another (Will) became a genie in his place.

[KAOS Agent]

I swear that there was an interview with Adam & Eddy at the end of last season where they said they were done with Missing Year flashbacks. So I went back into the TWOP archives and found it. It was a no for the rest of Season 3 and more of a "meh" for future seasons, so it's not like they had plans for more Missing Year stuff. I got the impression that they are surprised that anyone would care and left the door open just so they weren't stuck if they do go back there, although there really isn't anything to cover unless they want to do a Jolly Roger recovery expedition.

 

Could Sidney do magic when he was in the mirror? I don't remember him doing anything. 

[stealinghome]

You honestly don't think that sometime during the missing year which we're gonna see back in flashbacks will not answer this question? As to whether or not Regina spent more time then shown with Roland and Robin? You do know which show you're watching right?

Yeah, it's the show that never makes the good writing choice. Exhibit A: not having Outlaw Queen shack up during the Missing Year. Unless they retcon what they explicitly showed/told us in 3x19--which, with these writers, is always a possibility--Robin and Regina stayed frosty the whole Missing Year (which makes no narrative sense whatsoever, I agree). So I'm not sure why the show would flash back to that and their continued frostiness if they're trying to sell the audience on Outlaw Queen in the present.

 

Honestly, my rule of thumb has become: if it makes sense, Adam and Eddie will never do it.

 

So it's likely you're evidence will be proven wrong when we do get flashbacks towards the missing year this year and it shows exactly what I'm saying. More Regina/Robin/Roland development to parallel with the present situation.

I think it's a big assumption to assume that the fairybacks to the Missing Year will be Regina/Robin/Roland. They may be, but for all we know, Adam and Eddie plan to go visit Arendelle during the "Missing Year," or want to show us more about what, I don't know, Belle got up to during the year (or Hook trading the Jolly Roger, I suppose). They shovel stupid flashbacks in all the time--I don't think it's a guarantee that the Missing Year flashbacks will be what we'd consider "important" fairybacks.

 

Besides, they go back on what they say in interviews all the time. A few months ago they said we wouldn't be revisiting the Missing Year, and yet here we are. So I'm reserving judgment until I actually see it play out on-screen. (I actually wonder if they noted the general audience dissatisfaction with their treatment of the Missing Year and are now scrambling to cover their asses. Too little, too late, guys. The time to write the interesting, layered, complex story for the Missing Year was last season.)

 

I'm not the OP, but, well, there are lots of things I expected to see in the missing year flashbacks and didn't. So personally, I don't think we're 100% sure to see something relevant in them in s4, too.

Also, so much this. The writers so, so badly mishandled the Missing Year in 3B that I don't have any faith that what they do in 4A will be better.

 

Given the glacial pace of the story these days, if Belle got pregnant tomorrow she could conceivably (ha-ha) still be pregnant in the finale, two or three seasons down the road.

Amerilla, I laughed so hard when I read this, because it's so true! Can you imagine if poor Emilie de Ravin had to pretend to be pregnant for like three seasons? Bwah. At least we would know the show was/is self-aware enough to poke fun at itself!

 

To me, it just seems like there is a gap between Marian's disappearance, where Robin thought she was dead due to his fault, and her turning up at Granny's village where she was captured by the Evil Queen. So, whatever happened between those two incidents would be the same in both timelines (and explained in a flash back), and Robin's memory would still be the same.

I agree with this. Nothing in Marian or Robin's personal timelines changed until Marian met Emma in the cell.

 

Actually, it's my experience that this show is simple.  Usually, it's the most obvious, simplistic thing that always happens.  There's never any complexity to it.

Sadly, since S1 that has been the case. The show was interesting and somewhat complex in S1. Since S2 started, it's been a Saturday morning cartoon.

 

Can I just say: we have way too many family members (and Frozen characters) as it is...I sooooooo don't care about Hans and his 12 brothers. Pretty much every spoiler we get for 4A is making me less and less excited. It feels like it's going to be Frozen: The Sequel, with a side helping of our regulars every other Sunday. :\

 

If Sidney had magic in S2 and S3, I want to know why he was sitting on his hands both seasons doing nothing. This is the problem with writing back in characters you effectively already wrote out.

Edited August 29, 2014 by stealinghome

[KingOfHearts]

 

Could Sidney do magic when he was in the mirror? I don't remember him doing anything.

 

Well, he could go from mirror to mirror by will and he could also show what other people were doing like a crystal ball. But that's about it.

 

 

It feels like it's going to be Frozen: The Sequel, with a side helping of our regulars every other Sunday. :\

 

Amen. These "arcs" they're giving (the dagger, Marian, etc) seems like meaningless town drama to me. It's a bit mundane compared to the epic adventures and ongoing stories we've had in the past. Who really gives a flip about Belle forgiving Rumple for the billioneth time or a love triangle featuring Regina and two background characters? If Henry gets a love interest, well, it can't get much worse. 4A just sounds really boring.

 

I wish I could get excited about the Frozen stuff, but we know nothing huge is going to come from it, so it's not really worth caring about. If I wanted to watch Frozen, I'd watch the actual movie. It's the music that really makes it fun to watch for most people, but Once isn't going to have any of that. The writers don't even have much wiggle room with the story, so it's not like there's much to do with it anyway. I love Frozen, but I don't really see how Once can handle it without flunking.

Edited August 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[yeswedo]

A few posts from today that veered into attacking posters personally have been hidden. A few reminders:

• We expect all posters to follow the social contract.
• If you see a post that crosses a line use the report button instead of engaging.
• The ignore feature is always an option.

 

 

Finally, this thread is for Spoilers and Spoilery Discussion. If your comment doesn't relate to a spoiler please post in one of the many other threads in the forum.

 

Thanks!

 

[Rumsy4]

I kind of hope he comes from the same kingdom as Hook. But really even that way I wouldn't be very interested.

 

And yes, I do think Hook is somehow connected to Hans' kingdom, which may be why he seems to be willing to help Elsa.

 

Let's say Hans was descended from the evil king Hook had served as a young lieutenant. It's almost certain that Hans made a deal with Rumple to imprison Elsa in the urn. Hook and Emma were responsible for bringing Elsa to Storybrooke. She's mad at Rumple, and Hook and Emma are hanging-out with Elsa in present day, helping her. That would at least give a reason for why Hook and Rumple are antagonistic again, and play into the hand-drama.

 

So, the big question is, are any of the Frozen players in Storybrooke, or is the quest of 4A focussed on trying to get Elsa back to Arendelle? Do we have spoiler news on that? Hook and Emma could accompany Elsa back and help her to retake the kingdom. They could build future allies for when they return to the Enchanted Forest in Season 6. ;-)

Edited August 29, 2014 by Rumsy4

[InsertWordHere]

I've always wondered if Sidney was put back in the mirror when the curse was undone. If the breaking of the Curse somehow caused him to be freed from the mirror, maybe he did something during the missing year that gave him magical powers again. IDK though, I think the only comparable situation is Jiminy's, and he became a cricket again as soon as the Curse was undone. I would think Regina's spell on the mirror would work in the same way as Blue's spell on Jiminy.

[FurryFury]

I doubt Hook is in any way connected to Hans or Elsa. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the writers themselves have no idea what kingdom he is from, exactly, and have no immediate plans to include it in the plot, considering Hook's time was 300 years ago. So far, there have been no indications for this part of his backstory to ever rear its head.

I'd sooner expect them to use his time as a pirate than as a Royal Navy officer, but probably not now, and maybe not for a big arc.

[retrograde]

Yeah, I'm with you, FurryFurry. I think Hook is "helping" Elsa (if he is; really we know of one scene so far where he is with her but is apparently frustrated, and another vert small one where he just watches her walk by) because he's paired up with the sheriff/lead now, so he has to make himself useful and Elsa is in need of some help. But I don't think they'll tie him to the Frozen plot through his background -- I think they'll save his backstory for later (and I agree they probably don't know what it is yet). 

 

Didn't A&E specifically say that none of the Frozen characters are related to anyone in Storybrooke? I'm not sure Hans' brothers will be anyone we know.

[Hookian]

Yeah, I'm with you, FurryFurry. I think Hook is "helping" Elsa (if he is; really we know of one scene so far where he is with her but is apparently frustrated, and another vert small one where he just watches her walk by) because he's paired up with the sheriff/lead now, so he has to make himself useful and Elsa is in need of some help. But I don't think they'll tie him to the Frozen plot through his background -- I think they'll save his backstory for later (and I agree they probably don't know what it is yet). 

 

Didn't A&E specifically say that none of the Frozen characters are related to anyone in Storybrooke? I'm not sure Hans' brothers will be anyone we know.

Pretty sure some of the stuff that has been filmed with Hook/Elsa like him walking out of the Rabbit Hole to see her, is for promo material. The same promo that has Elsa walking in Storybrooke and all the characters watching her. 

[retrograde]

Huh, I hadn't heard about that -- but that actually makes a whole lot more sense than such a random shot.

[Serena]

So with the latest spoiler from Giancarlo, can we rule out the "Regina is dreaming" speculation about that scene where she goes to visit him?

 

There was a picture of one of Hans' brothers a few pages back. Just a random dude, I believe he's barely more than an extra.

[maryle]

Yes for some spoiler from this captaincronut fans;

wednesday night shooting at a cimentary Georgina, Elisabeth Lail

wednesday day shooting; JEN, Colin, Socha and GEorgina

Thursday day Jen,COlin , Josh and Ginny

THURSDAY Nignt JEn and Lana in a Park

So it really appear that the knave is link to Frozen and without any sigh of synday or Lana being the main focus in this shoot. IT look that it will be the Snow Queen centric for this episode.

I'm really curious about the title of the 6 episode .

[Souris]

CaptainCronut:

 

They weren't allowed to take pics when Colin and Jennifer came over to meet them, because Colin was in his modern Hook garb. Which is amusing to me, because there are already a ton of pics of that out there from the Steveston shooting. Barn door, horse.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Souris

[retrograde]

Well that kills my secret theory that Hook's costume change was only going to be for one episode. I was perversely looking forward to the fandom melting down when he reverted back to the old leathers.

 

Hmm. But I still maintain that they can't fit the whole Hook contraption under the new jacket. So either he is keeping his hand for how, or just wearing the "fake" hand (or they've built a new hook... but I think that giant hook would look totally ludicrous with the fitted jacket). 

 

Elsa and the Snow Queen at the cemetery is interesting. Didn't Rumple and Belle also have a scene there earlier? 

[sharky]

I thought about that too, but it looks like the motorcycle jacket has zippers on the cuffs and arms so I can see a zipper being opened here or there to accommodate the hook brace. I just can't imagine them having Captain Hook going that long without his hook. Overall, I'm excited to see how they make it all work but I'll admit that the idea of going that many episodes without his leather pirate coat makes me a little sad.

[retrograde]

The brace thing has to be larger than his fist by necessity, though. Just make a fist and look at how much larger that is than your wrist, then imagine extra on either side of it, then imagine a fitted jacket zipped around that. Even if they can cram it in there, it's still going to look super weird and bulky, no?

[Souris]

Elsa and the Snow Queen at the cemetery is interesting. Didn't Rumple and Belle also have a scene there earlier? 

 

Wrong Elizabeth -- Lail, not Mitchell. It's Anna.

 

I think Hook will have his hook (and maybe his old costume) back by the end of 4A. Just a hunch.

[Serena]

I hope so. I hope he gets it back by the end of 404. Damn! I need to see him filming in Steveston so we can see if he has it. Hopefully next week.

[maryle]

It is really silly but as I watched old clip on YouTube I felt sorry for the lost leather coat. So I hope that the coat comeback sometime !

Actually I'm looking for 4a because they succeed in keeping the real story close the vest, we only know little bit and nothing really about the big picture of the arc.

Frozen will be more of a ecran for the snow queen . Captain swan will try a relationship and RUmbelle will have to deal with the deception. The outlaws triangle (not) could be longer than expected. They soon will be shooting ep.6 and the rest is very much a secret.

That good for them!

About Maleficient return, I'm curious because they really like their twist so, is there something else for 4b ? that they will reveal at the last second, actually I do hope for another surprise that no one saw coming!

[NotBothered]

The brace thing has to be larger than his fist by necessity, though. Just make a fist and look at how much larger that is than your wrist, then imagine extra on either side of it, then imagine a fitted jacket zipped around that. Even if they can cram it in there, it's still going to look super weird and bulky, no?

I think the length is going to be a much bigger issue than the bulk.  I've wondered if the reason they stopped using the vest/shirt combo was that he was more obviously lopsided.  The giant coat hid the extra length a bit better.

[sharky]

Well, if you look at behind the scenes photos, it looks like the arm on the hook side is a bit longer. Plus Colin is always holding that arm at an angle to help hide the difference as well. So again, I'm sure the costume department can do something to hide it.

The other weird thing is again that he is wearing the modern clothes in episode 6, so does that mean he is missing the hook for that long or did the costume department adjust?

[retrograde]

I think the length is going to be a much bigger issue than the bulk.  

Yeah, but as sharky says, that has always been an issue and they can mitigate it somewhat by how he holds his arm. 

 

The other weird thing is again that he is wearing the modern clothes in episode 6, so does that mean he is missing the hook for that long or did the costume department adjust?

 

 

Aren't they shooting 4.05 now?

[sharky]

I thought the spoilers we got from on-set were that it was already episode 6 and they couldn't take a photo with Colin in his modern costume.

[retrograde]

i thought 4.04, the Apprentice, is the episode he gets the new clothes/they go on the date, then 4.05, Breaking Glass, is the next one?

[Souris]

I don't know what this means, but tidbit from DragonCon:

 

Hope ‏@HopeMullinax

It sounds like a lot of worlds are going to be in this seasons. Bev mentioned worlds weaving together

[Hookian]

Huh, I hadn't heard about that -- but that actually makes a whole lot more sense than such a random shot.

Yep I was right, it was promo material. :)

[Rumsy4]

I don't know what this means, but tidbit from DragonCon:

Interesting. Maybe the barriers between worlds is so weak now, that inter-realm travel is way easier? Or that realms can exist in the same space, but in different dimensions, and they start "bledding through"?

[Serena]

i thought 4.04, the Apprentice, is the episode he gets the new clothes/they go on the date, then 4.05, Breaking Glass, is the next one?

Yes, that is correct. They started shooting 405 this week... so they should be finished sometime next week. Adam usually posts the episode title when they're about to start shooting.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Interesting. Maybe the barriers between worlds is so weak now, that inter-realm travel is way easier? Or that realms can exist in the same space, but in different dimensions, and they start "bledding through"?

That's what I was hoping for when I saw the Enchanted Forest costumes spoiler for the 3B finale! I would really, really love that plot line. That would require some serious worldbuilding for the writers. We got Regina's apple tree in New York and the "troll" bridge in Storybrooke already. That would be a bit more exciting than Frozen.

Edited August 31, 2014 by KingOfHearts