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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

It's a cruel irony that Hook shows up right after Robin's funeral. This is going to be one emotional episode. I wonder what the heck happens to Hades and why he's not there when Robin is dead. I don't understand why Zelena has the crystal, either.

Maybe Zelena zaps Hades with the crystal after he kills Robin. So both Mills girls lose their (debatable) True Loves in the same scene. Meanwhile, Emma gets hers back. Maybe Charming can have a nasty cold that he recovers from at the end of the episode just to really drive the point home about how the White family women always win and Regina and the Mills girls always lose. 

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

It's a cruel irony that Hook shows up right after Robin's funeral. This is going to be one emotional episode. I wonder what the heck happens to Hades and why he's not there when Robin is dead. I don't understand why Zelena has the crystal, either.

He probably puts Zelena under a spell or something. The way Zelena has been behaving towards Regina since she got to the Underworld, I don't see her just threatening Regina like that.

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profdanglais

profdanglais

Hook is wearing his Dark One clothes, that must mean that his body is healed somehow and he comes back into it, rather than his underworld self being made corporeal, or some such. 

Zelena looks angry when she's holding the crystal, then sad when she hugs Regina. Either she's under a spell or she uses the crystal against Hades. 

ABitOFluff

ABitOFluff

2 minutes ago, profdanglais said:

Hook is wearing his Dark One clothes, that must mean that his body is healed somehow and he comes back into it, rather than his underworld self being made corporeal, or some such.

I noticed the dark jewelry and thought it was his DO jacket, but I wasn't sure. I like that jacket better for some odd reason.

Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

Hades is holding the crystal toward Regina right after Robin dies, but then Zelena is holding it against her in another picture.  I'm pretty sure it's going to be Zelena telling Hades to stop and let her kill Regina instead, Hades complies like a dope, we have the fakeout moment where it looks like Zelena's going to do it, then instead she uses it on Hades.  After Hades is vanquished, the sisters then have their tearful hug.

Edited by Mathius
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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

That scene in Hercules about the Olympian Crystal must have been cut.

Hades: "So tell me... how do you kill a god?"
Pain: "You use a potion to make him mortal?"
Hades: "That's ridiculous."
Panic: "You throw him into the River of Lost Souls?"
Hades: "That makes no sense. No, no boys - you use the Olympian Crystal. It doesn't kill things. It ends them."
Pain: "Oh and here I thought it was going to be something totally contrived."

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)
3 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

I like how Roland is far off in the distance in one of the photos during the funeral. Why isn't he up next to Regina & Co. It is his father. 

Little John: "What are we going to do about Roland?"
Regina: "I can make him forget Robin was ever his dad, but I can give him fake memories too. Congratulations - it's a boy."
Little John: "Well at least I won't be doing anything different."

Edited by KingOfHearts
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pezgirl7

pezgirl7

56 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

That one look Emma has when she's hugging Hook and looking at Robin's grave tells me they are going to make part of the reunion scene be about Emma's guilt over Robin and Regina's grief. Shades of the Season 3 and 4A finales.

I noticed that too and was annoyed by it. But maybe it won't be so bad. If Hook is just learning about Robin's death, I guess I can allow them one moment of sadness. But just one. They better not feel guilty after, but knowing this show...

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)

This is what comes of trusting an emotionally unstable woman and the god of the Dead with an infant. I feel bad seeing these pictures, but really, both Robin and Regina behaved like morons. Robin should have put the safety of his child over staying behind with Regina. His whole code of honor has been effed up from the start. At the end of the day, he needed to grow an spine and call the shots on the care of his daughter--not let Regina do it. And now, he and his children will be paying the price. It's heartbreaking to see Roland putting an arrow on the coffin.

I wonder why Robin and Regina went off to control Hades alone. Maybe Emma and co. are busy with Arthur-shenanigans.

Edited by Rumsy4
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Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

Emma did face Zelena before she came in to the big confrontation scene, so I hope Emma has SOME kind of influence on Zelena's decision and it doesn't just happen due to Hades killing Robin.  If Emma isn't going to defeat the Big Bad yet again, then she needs to at least be a key factor in his defeat ala Pan, otherwise she continues to be the most absolutely useless "Savior" ever, and I'm sick of that.

Edited by Mathius
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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

1 minute ago, PixiePaws1 said:

looks like Killian's jewellry is all black again...or was it black in the UW ...cos i thought it had reverted to silver....?

He is still in the Dark One clothes he died in. Since he doesn't look like he had to claw his way out of his own grave, thankfully, I am guessing his body is stolen by Arthur before the burial. Emma finds out and that is what she is dealing with when Robin dies, giving Regina something else to hold against her. Perhaps Smee and his crew buried or thought they buried Hook while the Nevengers went down under? That would help me get over the lack of Smee and possibly no funeral for Hook. 

Curio

Curio

And with the death of both Hades and Robin, Season 6 can finally give us the much awaited #WickedJekydeQueen love triangle.

1 minute ago, XrystalPond said:

This is going to be the end of the 3B finale/start of 4A all over again, isn't it? Regina is going to blame Emma and Emma is going to let her.

I absolutely despise how Emma has to put her life on hold any time something bad happens to Regina. Belle must have felt like hell after sending Rumple across the town line, but Emma didn't give a shit about that. She and Killian went on about their relationship even though Belle was in grieving. I'm dreading the inevitable pause button Emma will play after Robin's death. 

Also, I'm assuming that script tease Adam tweeted aligns with the photo of Snow and Emma standing alone in front of Robin's grave.

4 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

The jewelry is black again. Something is going on with his rings, as in the photos from the finale he is missing one and the others are back to normal. They looked normal in the UW. I'm not sure what's the full story there.

Somehow he loses it when he's sucked into the portal land with Snowing and Zelena. It'll be interesting to see what purpose it serves.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

Hook's different wardrobe through the portal can be explained.

Hook: "Love, since you're my future step-son's aunt, mind conjuring me up a new set of clothes? I don't fancy being reminded of my Dark One self."
Zelena: "Oh alright. Here, this vest is Emma's favorite."
Hook: "Why do you care what Emma likes on me?"
Zelena: "Um... No reason!"

I'm interested in seeing how the fandom reacts to Robin's death. Anyone who I have seen that like Robin usually only care about him because he's Regina's current happy ending. I'm counting on all those "Regina never catches a break! Why can't she ever be happy?? Emma gets everything!" responses. 

This may sound ridiculous, but since Rumple may still have Robin's heart, would that be Regina's chance to revive him? Think about it - why would Rumple take Robin's heart, only to give it back? He's not someone who just gives back that kind of stuff. That could be his leverage over Regina in S6.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Souris

Souris

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

It's a cruel irony that Hook shows up right after Robin's funeral. This is going to be one emotional episode. I wonder what the heck happens to Hades and why he's not there when Robin is dead. I don't understand why Zelena has the crystal, either.

Pretty sure Hades gives Zelena the crystal to kill Regina, but she turns it on Hades instead.

It's not irony that CS reunites by Robin's casket. It's 100% deliberate by A&E to drive home that poor Regina has just lost her love and it's all the fault of that awful Emma who gets her True Love back right there. 

And, of course, to make what should be a happy and glorious CS reunion at Hook’s resurrection be instead weighed down with grief and guilt. It’s more important to A&E that fans feel bad for Regina than feel happy for Emma getting her True Love back. There is already a TON of Emma/CS hate in the fandom because of the reunion and where it takes place. Mission accomplished. Even bigger target now painted on CS.

This is no doubt to usher in the return of the EQ (via Jekyll Juice), who they’ll want fans to root for to get her revenge on Emma for – in their view – getting Robin killed while her own True Love comes back to life. Get ready for SnowEmma groveling to Regina, the EQ insulting and abusing SnowEmma, frothing EQ vows of revenge on SnowEmma, and all sorts of other landmark stuff you’ve seen in about 984 flashbacks already.

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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

I am now thinking the script tease with Snow and Emma occurs when they are standing by Robin's grave, which IMO softens her words, now that someone has died because (according to Emma's current mindset) she went to the Underworld. She is going to feel incredibly guilty and I was hoping against hope that it wouldn't play out this way. 

At least it looks like Hook is coming back due to his own actions, with maybe a little assist from Zeus. I wonder if Zeus will appear in Storybrooke at all?

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SiobhanJW

SiobhanJW

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

This may sound ridiculous, but since Rumple may still have Robin's heart, would that be Regina's chance to revive him? Think about it - why would Rumple take Robin's heart, only to give it back? He's not someone who just gives back that kind of stuff. That could be his leverage over Regina in S6.

Has anyone ever "died" before that already has their heart taken out of their body? Maybe there will be a way for him to come back. We just won't know it until next season. 

janett snakehole

janett snakehole

Even though people who follow spoilers knew it was coming, it was still shitty of that person to release the episode stills. I hope abc will block press access to them in the future.

Not a fan of where they placed the reunion in the episode. I was hoping it would happen before Robin's death or at least away from his grave?? Was that necessary? It sucks all around.

1. It is in poor taste to have Emma reunite with her dead loved one at the grave of someone who just died and will presumably not be resurrected.

2. This moment that should be amazing and emotional for Emma x Killian is going to be greatly dampened because of Robin's death and where the reunion takes place and will probably also be very brief. 

The placement in the episode seems deliberately written to be divisive because even these writers aren't that tone deaf. Or maybe they are. It's so hard to tell anymore. 

Oh and for sure Emma and captain swan will take the blame for Robin's death. It's already happening. 

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Curio

Curio

Honestly, I'm more upset that Season 4 seems to be an even bigger waste of time than it already was. Why devote an entire season around Operation Dumbass and Regina wanting to get back with Robin if they were just going to kill him off anyways? Why take the time to introduce his romance with Regina all the way back in Season 3A? Why give Robin and Regina a True Love montage during Rumple and Belle's wedding vows? Why give Robin and Regina the parallel story to Snow and Charming during Season 4's alternate universe? Why parallel Emma and Hook's bandaging scene? Why allow Regina to berate Emma for ruining a relationship that was just going to end anyways?

Something doesn't add up here. Either Robin is returning in Season 6, or the writers did a huge pivot from their original plan. I personally never got into Robin and Regina as a couple because Robin wasn't allowed to have a personality or stick up for himself, but I also accepted that they'd be endgame because the writers spent over 2 seasons developing them. I'd rather Robin stay alive and keep Season 4 slightly relevant versus killing him off and making all those Operation Dumbass moments pointless.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)
39 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

Has anyone ever "died" before that already has their heart taken out of their body? Maybe there will be a way for him to come back. We just won't know it until next season. 

It all depends on the rules of the Olympian Crystal, really. I assumed it disintegrated someone from existence, but Robin's body is left behind. Which begs the question - why doesn't Regina try to split her heart with him? I guess we'll find out Sunday. Maybe it obliterates their soul.

Quote

Honestly, I'm more upset that Season 4 seems to be an even bigger waste of time than it already was. Why devote an entire season around Operation Dumbass and Regina wanting to get back with Robin if they were just going to kill him off anyways?

Season 4 is looking more like an excuse to bring Zelena back while also giving her a place in Regina's life. It really makes Robin a tool. Now that A&E don't need him any more, he's being thrown away. Tossing him out is the final ingredient in the eternal sisterly bond.

Quote

This is no doubt to usher in the return of the EQ (via Jekyll Juice), who they’ll want fans to root for to get her revenge on Emma for – in their view – getting Robin killed while her own True Love comes back to life. Get ready for SnowEmma groveling to Regina, the EQ insulting and abusing SnowEmma, frothing EQ vows of revenge on SnowEmma, and all sorts of other landmark stuff you’ve seen in about 984 flashbacks already.

This gives me bad memories of the hiatus between S3 and S4. There was also this concern that Regina would revert because she lost her boyfriend. Now the same thing is happening again, only this time she's being forced to become evil. It's paralleling the S4 finale with Emma in that even though she is choosing against darkness, she's being forced to succumb anyway because of magic. That is, however, probably the only way you could do it. Erasing all of Regina's development would not be a good idea. If she's the Evil Queen because she's drugged, that is much easier to stomach. She can be a psycho without totally tearing down whatever good moral standing she has. Contrived? Yes. Entertaining? Possibly, if Lana can get her EQ acting together.

Edited by KingOfHearts
Mathius

Mathius

(edited)
Quote

Something doesn't add up here. Either Robin is returning in Season 6, or the writers did a huge pivot from their original plan.

I would definitely place money on the latter.  Outlaw Queen was their original plan, but it failed on a multitude of levels with each progressing half-season (writing, longetivity, the general audience response) and they decided it was best to just reset the board altogether when it comes to Regina's love life.  Given the emphasis they're now going to place on her as a character torn between good and evil, I assume they figured Jekyll/Hyde would be a more fitting love interest for her (one that they can keep writing for and allow them to keep writing for Regina, since it's obvious by now that they have no clue how to write good compellingly, only evil or gray-shaded.)

Edited by Mathius
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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)
Quote

I assume they figured Jekyll/Hyde would be a more fitting love interest for her (one that they can keep writing for and allow them to keep writing for Regina, since they have no clue how to write good compellingly.)

Jekyll for Regina and Hyde for the Evil Queen!

Quote

Maybe they will call back the Tattoo into play. Maybe he WASN'T Regina's true TRUE LOVE and there is another person running around with the Tattoo that we saw in that bar that one night in the EF. I'm just kidding... but am I??? Haha. 

Did Adam debunk that idea or did I make that up? I guess it doesn't matter. They've gone back on things they've said before. (e.g. "We're never doing time travel.")

Edited by KingOfHearts
Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

It was clearly Sean Maguire in the pub, though.  Plus, Tink herself recognized him in 3x16.

Quote

Jekyll for Regina and Hyde for the Evil Queen!

You joke, but no, that's exactly what they're going to do.  Regina and Jekyll bond over the "struggle" to repress their inner evil, while EQ and Hyde bond over their mutual love of wanton murder, chaos and destruction.

Edited by Mathius
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Serena

Serena

5 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm pretty sure we started mentioning Robin's death back after 5x02 aired. I can even remember some conversations after 5x01 when he was being held hostage for the wand.

5x02 was the one with the Fury that targeted Robin, right? And in Camelot Regina made Emma save him? Holy crap, I can't believe that not only the Fury foreshadowing paid off, but Regina making Emma save him using the wand *and* karma because he was supposed to die at Percival's hand did, too. For once I'm impressed.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)
1 hour ago, Curio said:

I'd rather Robin stay alive and keep Season 4 slightly relevant versus killing him off and making all those Operation Dumbass moments pointless.

I feel ya. I don't particularly care about Robin one way or the other, but I feel really pissed off at the irrelevance of Operation Dumbass. They put us through that, and we don't even get a stupid t-shirt.

1 hour ago, janett snakehole said:

The placement in the episode seems deliberately written to be divisive because even these writers aren't that tone deaf. Or maybe they are. It's so hard to tell anymore. 

I'm sure it's deliberate. A&E don't really care about Emma as a character. They see potential for conflict and think it makes for great drama. That's why they keep repeating storylines. Because they think their "twists" are brilliant. 

ETA: Ugh... both Jekyll and Hyde look like wet fish. If one of them is to be a long-term LI for Regina, I hope their on-screen chemistry is good. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

(edited)

I have zero problems with where the reunion is. Hook is probably watching the funeral from the shadows. So it's not like he is crashing it.

And no, Robin's death isn't Emma's fault. She didn't twist anyone's arm into going to the Underworld with her. And she's not the one who encouraged Zelena to return Hades' feelings in the hopes of changing him. And no one said a word when Hades said he was going to Storybrooke.

As a matter of fact, there's the total of one person that said they couldn't trust him, called Hades devious, and said people don't change just like that, and no one listened to him. 

That said, I think for the OQ/Robin fans this really, really sucks that they have confirmation like this. I think one thing we can be sure of is that Robin likely died a hero. To me it looks like he jumped in front of Regina to save her from Hades. And his sacrifice is not going in vein if it snaps Zelena out of her "I changed him, he's a new man" mantra from sneak peek 1. I think releasing those promo stills sucks, and I don't know why whoever is in charge of press at ABC (or whoever it is) gives out so many spoiler pics. 

After what went down in 5x02, with Robin being mortally injured because he was saving Regina. In that episode, it's Regina's past actions that brought that one. And with Emma being forced into saving him, the fury coming for him, and him being saved the way he was, his life was already forfeit.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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sharky

sharky

Now that this has become a reality, I can't help but feel disappointed. A&E keep bringing in these characters, think they're clever with storylines, and then kill them off. I really had hope for OQ when they started out, but then it just turned into a hot mess. It makes me wonder what would've happened to Hook if they hadn't played that character perfectly.

Having the Evil Queen back could be fun -- if done right. It's just bad they had to assassinate another character to make it happen.

KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

43 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I was going to say that everytime they have a funeral for someone, that person doesn't come back. Graham, Neal, Joanna. But then Archie also had a funeral, but he had been kidnapped, and Hook seems to have been buried, and he's back, so having a funeral doesn't really count.

So now, I'm left with the baby name.

Blue had a funeral and came back, right?

didia

didia

Well, OQ fans are already blaming Emma and CS, saying that Robin had to die so Hook could live, what is not the case. I am having bad flashbacks from 2B and 3B. The truth is I would prefer Robin alive, they already invested too much time in him, and the actor fits in the show, they just need to write better material for him. I just don't have patience to see victim Regina /EQ again. Then we will just loose more time with whatever romance they throw  at her, and of course we will learn that is an infinite supply of potential TL.

I'm more curious about how they will bring Hook back, and really hoping they won't forget the people suffering in the River of the Lost Souls. Save Milah, save Gaston, save aunt Em! They can save James and Pan too...

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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

To paraphrase Killian....had more time than they were supposed  to... Robin was destined to die in Camelot..Regina should have gone "phtt' by Darkness infestation but Emma sacrificed herself for both of them...Robin is likely grateful (cos he seems to be grateful to anyone,  even the selfish jerk that used his 4yo for bait)...probably too much to ask that Regina be grateful to Emma....!

....yes, I  know. ...*slaps forehead *

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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

Why are they hiding from Regina in the mayor's office? She'll never think to look there!

Remember way back in season 3, there was a prophecy in Oz about a witch from another land "unseating the greatest evil the realm has ever seen." Zelena thought it meant Dorothy defeating her and Glinda thought it meant Zelena defeating Walsh, but maybe it was about Zelena defeating Hades.

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Bishop

Bishop

On 5/4/2016 at 2:41 PM, InsertWordHere said:

It would be my preference for Hook to show up alive either before or during the climactic battle. If he brings the pages and that helps turn the tide of the battle, I feel like that might alleviate some of the resentment that might be felt over him getting a second (third, fourth, whatever) chance at life while Robin doesn't. 

True, but then again, Emma has lost EVERY love she has ever had in her life - her parents, every boyfriend, etc.  For that reason alone, I'm okay with Hook getting his second, third (whatever) shot at life.  Hook has also lost everything in his life - lost his mother, sold into slavery by his father (who gets over that), lost his brother, and Milah.  So again, I'm okay with Hook and Emma getting a happily-ever-after when Robin doesn't.  I think they earned it.

On 5/4/2016 at 5:14 PM, YaddaYadda said:

The one thing I really like is that Hook truly made Hades his unfinished business. I wonder if he won't get his life back once Hades is defeated instead of it happening right away.

I like it too.  He promised Emma that SHE wouldn't be his unfinished business, but I can easily see why Hades would be, and I like that Hook won't move on until Hades is dealt with.

On 5/4/2016 at 5:42 PM, kili said:

We already had evil Hook this season and a cursed hand last season. Do we really want to find out what happens when you put an unreformed villain heart in your body? He's best off with his own heart. Hearts seem intrinsically linked to the owner because hearts can be shared between TLs. With Hades heart in him, he'll probably end up being in love with Zelena - and no thanks.

I agree.  There is no way Hook can have Hades heart and not have it affect him.  It needs to be Hook's heart.

On 5/4/2016 at 7:27 PM, Souris said:

Honestly, I'm pretty sure they're just going to Zeus ex machina away every potential problem with Hook returning. Rotting corpse? Unhealable wound? Stopped heart? Zeus is a god -- he and the show can handwave ANYTHING away. He's the ultimate gauntlet.

I'm fine with that because enough crazy, wacky stuff has already happened in the world of magic, and frankly, I think Hook deserves it.  He was forced to be a Dark One EXPRESSLY against his wishes.  He died believing he had vanquished the Dark Ones and saved Storybrook - and that was a lie.  In the end, Hook has become a better man, and I think deserves a shot at happiness.  I just don't understand that if he gets his heart and body back whole again, why can't he get his hand back too?  I don't think he needs the hook anymore.

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Souris

Souris

3 minutes ago, Bishop said:

 I just don't understand that if he gets his heart and body back whole again, why can't he get his hand back too?  I don't think he needs the hook anymore.

Ugh, I couldn't get my reply out of the quote box above.

At this point, I think the hook is still there simply for branding. Zeus could totally give him his hand back, but they still want him to be HOOK.

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Curio

Curio

I'm okay with resurrected Killian keeping the hook. I think on some subconscious level, Hook will always want to keep it just to atone for his centuries of being a bad person. If he's being given a second chance at a good life after years of being a villain, it's worth the sacrifice to only have one hand. It makes his redemption more believable.

And I agree that the Captain Swan reunion in front of Robin's grave is tasteless. I would have been okay if Hook appeared behind Emma at his grave when she's doing something with the rum flask, but having it instead be at Robin's grave is a total F.U. from the writers just to add more angst and to make Emma feel bad about her love coming back.

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