Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[HoodlumSheep]

Hopefully 5x18 will make Dorothy a little more sympathetic. Her introduction in 5x16 was less than stellar. That Auntie Em casting is a good sign. If she doesn't get to slow down or get any real characterization, she's just another Merida.

Didn't A&E say that they were introducing the LGBT couple in 5x09? I thought Mulan Rouge was intended to become canon. They could have always changed their mind, of course.

I think they only mentioned "planting seeds" for an eventual relationship, which they kind of did concerning Ruby, at least because whichever pairing happens it's going to involve Ruby. Unless there's a plot twist and it's actually Mulan and Dorothy. :P

[Souris]

Wait, which spoilers are we going by?  Just the stills with the flower? 

 

That, plus Ruby going to the UW for Dorothy (with no Mulan in sight), plus Dorothy being under a curse. Plus the title of the ep being Ruby Slippers.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Souris

[Katherine]

I agree that it seems like they're going the Dorothy/Ruby route and I'm also a little disappointed. I quite liked the idea of Ruby and Mulan. I'm guessing that if they did in fact change their minds from Ruby/Mulan to Ruby/Dorothy, it had more to do with the fact that A & E love "surprising twists". As soon as the story about an LGBT couple was released, the media assumed Mulan would be involved. Adam and Eddy refused to say, and I can't help but wonder if they then decided that they wanted to prove everyone wrong. Maybe not, but sometimes it seems like they care more about surprising their audience than satisfying them.

 

As for the possible TLK between Ruby and Dorothy, would this be the kiss Adam and Eddy were referring to when asked about a TLK in 5B? I think it was Leanne who released an article about Captain Swan, and in it, she asked A & E if the audience could expect a TLK by the end of the season. A & E answered yes, and fans assumed it was about Captain Swan or another major couple. But this suggests they may have actually been referring to Dorothy and Ruby? Really? Should I lower my hopes re: a CS TLK in 5x20?

[YaddaYadda]

Should I lower my hopes re: a CS TLK in 5x20?

 

I doubt the TLK happens in 5x20 if there is one just because Dopey is still a tree, and that particular curse needs to be undone in Storybrooke. 

 

About 5x18, Zelena has the slippers with her in the Underworld with her. Guess they're about to answer the question of how she got from Oz to Storybrooke. And maybe that's the way Snow gets out of the Underworld and goes back to her baby, especially since Zelena alluded in the 1st sneak peek that she has a way out of the Underworld.

[HoodlumSheep]

But how'd she have the slippers? Did she just smuggle them under her coat for an entire episode?

I don't think CS is getting a TLK this season. It doesn't really bug me though.

Also, If the heroes are traipsing through New York in the finale, we better get a Hook-has-been-to-New York-before reference. Even if it's a "that way!" or any hint, really. Actually, I just realized this'll be Snowing's first trip outside of Storybrooke (to a non-magical place).

Edited April 15, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

But how'd she have the slippers? Did she just smuggle them under her coat for an entire episode?

 

She's a witch, so magic? I mean she carried the bottle of formula with her from Storybrooke, through the portal, in the woods.

[HoodlumSheep]

She's a witch, so magic? I mean she carried the bottle of formula with her from Storybrooke, through the portal, in the woods.

But that's a lot smaller than a pair of shoes? And her magic isn't exactly working real well in the Underworld.

[RadioGirl27]

As for the possible TLK between Ruby and Dorothy, would this be the kiss Adam and Eddy were referring to when asked about a TLK in 5B? I think it was Leanne who released an article about Captain Swan, and in it, she asked A & E if the audience could expect a TLK by the end of the season. A & E answered yes, and fans assumed it was about Captain Swan or another major couple. But this suggests they may have actually been referring to Dorothy and Ruby? Really? Should I lower my hopes re: a CS TLK in 5x20?

In this interview, this was Eddy's answer:

 

"It's a new couple," Kitsis teased with a laugh before completely changing his answer. "Or an old couple." Horowitz chimed in on the fun, saying, "Or a new combination! We're not going to say who."

The fact that he first said a new couple and then tried to cover it is pretty telling. At the moment, everything seems to point to Ruby and Dorothy.

 

About the CS TLK, I would lower my expectations. I doubt it's going to happen any time soon. Hades and Zelena have more chances to have a TLK then them.

Edited April 15, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[CheshireCat]

After 5x16 I actually wondered if the TLK is going to be Zelena and Hades and the heroes way of getting out of the Underworld. I guess it depends on whether the TLK is supposed to break a curse and which curse because everyone in Storybrooke is still under the Dark Curse Hook (and Merlin?) cast are they not? And then we have Hades personal curse and, apparently, Dorothy is cursed, too. ... So, technically, we'd need three TLKs. At the same time, breaking Hades curse might help breaking Dorothy's which would still leave the Dark Curse though.

[kili]

So, technically, we'd need three TLKs.

 

 

Maybe we can have a good old kiss-a-thon. Or a TLK Kissing Booth.

 

And as Syndrome says in the Incredibles: Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super...no one will be.

[RadioGirl27]

Hook is not cursed, he is dead. I doubt a TLK would work on him.

And a TLK between Hades and Zelena would be as ridiculous as Regina giving the kid she abused for years a TLK without a heart. So, yeah, it's probably happening.

Edited April 15, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[CheshireCat]

RadioGirl27, on 15 Apr 2016 - 6:36 PM, said:

Hook is not cursed, he is dead. I doubt a TLK would work on him.

And a TLK between Hades and Zelena would be as ridiculous as Regina giving the kid she abused for years a TLK without a heart. So, yeah, it's probably happening.

 

I wasn't meaning that Hook is cursed. But he cast the Dark Curse (Merlin had just ready for him) in Camelot and I don't recall that it has been broken. As far as I remember, the core characters have their memory back only because they got it back from the dreamcatchers but everyone left in Storybrooke should not have their memories (and I don't even know if Zelena and Belle should have memories since I only recall Snow, Charming, Hood, Regina and Henry in the room with Emma and the dreamcatchers). So, I'm assuming, the Dark Curse needs to be broken, as do Hades curse and Dorothy's.

[HoodlumSheep]

You know, I've recently thought about a TLK between Zelena and Hades since Our Decay, so I'm glad I'm not alone on thinking about the possibility of it. The way about how he talked about his heart stopping and that it fluttered, etc. made me think that that could be a possible way to defeat him in some way.

They kiss, his heart restarts, and then...I don't really know what would happen after that. Would he lose his status as ruler of the underworld, or would he be able to "move on." ?

I can't remember the last spoilers we got of him, but it didn't look like he made it out of the underworld (which makes me think his "defeat" or whatever happens with the green screens--which could then hint at it involving olympus or whatever they're calling it).

Unless if I'm seriously forgetting a spoiler. Which I could be, considering I don't have the best memory when it comes to remembering a lot of details concerning this show.

Edited April 15, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

 

They kiss, his heart restarts, and then...I don't really know what would happen after that. Would he lose his status as ruler of the underworld, or would he be able to "move on." ?

Zelena said it would "free him from the Underworld". All this talk about his heart needing a start-up screams tin man to me.

[Jul 68]

... I don't have the best memory when it comes to remembering a lot of details concerning this show.

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one. I seriously have no memory of Claude (I've never missed an episode), but everyone else does.

[Bishop]

I wasn't meaning that Hook is cursed. But he cast the Dark Curse (Merlin had just ready for him) in Camelot and I don't recall that it has been broken. As far as I remember, the core characters have their memory back only because they got it back from the dreamcatchers but everyone left in Storybrooke should not have their memories (and I don't even know if Zelena and Belle should have memories since I only recall Snow, Charming, Hood, Regina and Henry in the room with Emma and the dreamcatchers). So, I'm assuming, the Dark Curse needs to be broken, as do Hades curse and Dorothy's.

I got the impression the curse was broken when Hook sacrificed himself and vanquished all the darkness, which is why Belle has her memories back.  I know Gold channeled it into him, but I just got the impression that Hook's sacrificed saved the town at least because Emma never mentioned the curse when she confronted Gold about still hearing Excalibur after Hook's death.

 

I think it's ridiculous if TLK is going to be between Dorothy and Red because - who cares??!!  A TLK is something that should build over time because a relationship has been forged and then trials and tribulations.  How long have we known Dorothy?  How often do we see Red or even Mulan for that matter?  I'm not saying their can't be an LGBT couple, but at least have one build from the beginning.  I am not invested in Dorothy or Mulan at this point because we rarely see them.  I like Red the most of the three, but she's barely around either.  If it's Hades and Zelina, it's the same problem.  They've hardly been lost lovers from a story perspective because we only just found out about them.  So the TLK in 5B is going to be a snoozefest for me, I think.  At least if it were a TLK for CS it would be long earned.   

Edited April 16, 2016 by Bishop

[CheshireCat]

Bishop, on 15 Apr 2016 - 11:40 PM, said:Bishop, on 15 Apr 2016 - 11:40 PM, said:

I got the impression the curse was broken when Hook sacrificed himself and vanquished all the darkness, which is why Belle has her memories back.  I know Gold channeled it into him, but I just got the impression that Hook's sacrificed saved the town at least because Emma never mentioned the curse when she confronted Gold about still hearing Excalibur after Hook's death.

 

I thought the Dark Curse could only be broken by TLK? And does Belle really have her memories back? I'm genuinely asking because I don't remember if she made a reference that suggests that she does or not. Same for Zelena.

Why do you think Emma would have mentioned the curse to Gold? (I guess that we're guessing like this shows that the showrunners missed explaining a major plot line!)

Edited April 16, 2016 by CheshireCat

[Souris]

In this interview, this was Eddy's answer:

The fact that he first said a new couple and then tried to cover it is pretty telling. At the moment, everything seems to point to Ruby and Dorothy.

 

About the CS TLK, I would lower my expectations. I doubt it's going to happen any time soon. Hades and Zelena have more chances to have a TLK then them.

 

I would bet money that CS won't have a TLK this season. Maybe even never. As Katherine astutely said above, A&E care more about surprising the audience than satisfying us. They know CS fans are dying for a TLK, and the show fed that expectation heavily with all the failed TLKs and TLK talk this season. They have narratively set up a successful TLK -- but that is what they do: they set things up but don't deliver a payoff. They actually seem to pride themselves on never delivering what the fans want or expect. I think it's exactly the same reason we have no CS sex/morning after scene -- it's because they know the fans want it, so they won't give it. No wonder fans are getting more & more dissatisfied!

 

CS may get some "moment" in 5x20 to get Hook out of the UW, since that is when they apparently leave -- but it's just as likely that he'll be released because of some sudden, random, arbitrary reason like Zeus sweeps in and sets him free simply to annoy Hades. (There was that "King Marcus" casting spoiler that sounded like Zeus.) Or Zades has a TLK that inspires Hades to let Hook go. But it will have absolutely nothing to do with Emma. That's the kind of soulless, unsatisfying "twist" A&E like.

[KingOfHearts]

Can I just say it's weird that Cora and Pan were introduced in the premiere but aren't coming back until toward the end? I thought we would have seen a little more of them. I almost forgot they were even there.

Edited April 16, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Emma either helps gets her, Snow and Regina out of the Underworld in 520 or she does something that can bring Killian back to life. I just can't see them have his huge episode about Emma's history and not have it be about her saving the day.

[InsertWordHere]

I think they added some new stills. In this one, Mulan has the flower. Is it by chance a poppy, as in the poppy fields of Oz? And they're making a knockout potion like the one Mulan gave to Emma to use on the giant or Hook? 

[YaddaYadda]

About the TLK, I'm pretty sure that it was mentioned in an interview that Dopey is still a tree and that the curse itself hasn't been broken. It might have been one of those yes/no interviews A&E do.

 

I think they added some new stills. In this one, Mulan has the flower. Is it by chance a poppy, as in the poppy fields of Oz? And they're making a knockout potion like the one Mulan gave to Emma to use on the giant or Hook?

 

It's very possible since the Mulan, Red and Dorothy are standing over a brewing cauldron.

Edited April 16, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Mathius]

Can I just say it's weird that Cora and Pan were introduced in the premiere but aren't coming back until toward the end? I thought we would have seen a little more of them. I almost forgot they were even there.

 

We at least got a voice-over letter from Pan in 5x14, and Rumple contemplating the pan-pipes in the recent 5x17.

 

There is no indication that Cora would be coming back, though. Even Hades' mention of her in 5x16 kind of sounds like writing her off ("I took care of her"), so it'll probably be a surprise to many viewers when she actually turns up again.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Mathius

[CheshireCat]

KingOfHearts, on 16 Apr 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

Can I just say it's weird that Cora and Pan were introduced in the premiere but aren't coming back until toward the end? I thought we would have seen a little more of them. I almost forgot they were even there.

 

I guess with Cora it's a scheduling conflict with the actress but it's really a pity since they've decided to give Zelena a story, so it would have been great to have more of Cora. And since they also have a Rumple/Belle arc, they should have had more of Pan (maybe instead of Gaston even and either one would probably have been better than what we're getting with the next episode (Dorothy is a part of the Oz story but I don't think we need the details and while I like Red and wish they would have used her more from S2 onwards, I think that focusing on the characters who are in the Underworld already and exploring the relationship between the living and the dead instead of just touching the surface of several relationships would have been better))

[RadioGirl27]

There is no indication that Cora would be coming back, though. Even Hades' mention of her in 5x16 kind of sounds like writing her off ("I took care of her"), so it'll probably be a surprise to many viewers when she actually turns up again.

Cora is coming back for Sisters. Barbara Hershey tweeted about filming a scene with Colin for that episode.

Edited April 16, 2016 by RadioGirl27

[KingOfHearts]

Cora is coming back for Sisters. Barbara Hershey tweeted about filming a scene with Colin for that episode.

I was hoping that was the episode she was coming back in. Since its likely Zelena's redemption episode, it makes sense for her to confront her mother finally.

[Mathius]

Cora is coming back for Sisters. Barbara Hershey tweeted about filming a scene with Colin for that episode.

 

I know that, I just meant that viewers who did NOT know this will likely be surprised to see her again than to see Pan again, given that Pan was given the letter and pan pipes to show that he's still in play whereas Cora hasn't gotten anything like that and was just discarded without much mention after the 100th up until "Sisters".

Edited April 16, 2016 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

Script Tease

 

Are David and Hook actually having a conversation? I hope so. I wonder if David is talking about coming to the UW with Emma and leaving Snowflake behind. 

[InsertWordHere]

I think it's a callback to their conversation in Good Form, just with their positions flipped. Except I never believed that Hook just saved Charming for Emma and I am daring to hope that Charming is basically saying the same thing to Hook here. 

[Mathius]

Except I never believed that Hook just saved Charming for Emma and I am daring to hope that Charming is basically saying the same thing to Hook here. 

 

I think he did do it for Emma, just not in the way many fans seem to have taken it. So many accuse him "doing it for Emma" as "trying to get into her pants", which ignores that he was going to keep it a secret and that Emma didn't know until David made up a total lie about Hook saving him from a Lost Boy attack.  He was "doing it for Emma" because he cared for Emma and didn't want her to lose David (her father) like he lost Liam (his brother / father-figure).

Edited April 17, 2016 by Mathius

[RadioGirl27]

After looking at the promo pics, I'm actually surprised that David and Hook are going to be in the episode, even if it is a 10 seconds scene.

 

Oh, and David, like Snow, Henry and Regina, is doing all this just for Emma, not for Hook. Emma is the only one who is there for Hook.

[Souris]

After looking at the promo pics, I'm actually surprised that David and Hook are going to be in the episode, even if it is a 10 seconds scene.

 

Oh, and David, like Snow, Henry and Regina, is doing all this just for Emma, not for Hook. Emma is the only one who is there for Hook.

 

At least some people are doing something for Emma instead of for Regina or Emma doing everything for them, for a change.

 

I feel like the fandom is going to be even more of a mess than usual after tonight's ep.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Souris

[maryle]

I am just happy that for once the writer decide to gave a little focus on the complex relation between KillIan and Charming.

The situation of this family is complex Charming know that Hook has changed but a ex pirate is probably not what he wanted for his daughter and all what happened in 5a can have remember Charming of just that.

One of my personnal wish for the final is about some funny and good scene betweem Snowing and Hook. The little portal jumping is a golden opportunity to explore what they all feels about each others now.

I really hope the writer wont forget about it.

Adding it will be perfect for my expexted CS engagement Kiss after they are reunited.

With my luck it will about Zelena save them as they are useless cause they have no magic.

[Serena]

I just saw that the kid who will be playing Young Regina in "Sisters" is the same girl who plays Young Rebecca in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. That kid is awesome! Maybe the episode won't be so bad?

[YaddaYadda]

After looking at the promo pics, I'm actually surprised that David and Hook are going to be in the episode, even if it is a 10 seconds scene.

 

Oh, and David, like Snow, Henry and Regina, is doing all this just for Emma, not for Hook. Emma is the only one who is there for Hook.

 

This is the episode that Colin, Josh and Jared filmed with Cruella, so there is a side story going on, along the main one tonight.

[mjgchick]

I just saw that the kid who will be playing Young Regina in "Sisters" is the same girl who plays Young Rebecca in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. That kid is awesome! Maybe the episode won't be so bad?

Yeah I like her as Young Rebecca as well.

[RadioGirl27]

This is the episode that Colin, Josh and Jared filmed with Cruella, so there is a side story going on, along the main one tonight.

I thought those scenes were for Sisters but yeah the new script tease confirm they are for tonight.

 

I wonder for whom this gravestone is. Ruby seems pretty distraught in front of it.

[Serena]

So once again, everyone is in the big scene/episode except Robin? Honestly, what's up with that? They're deliberately keeping him out of the episodes now.

[Hookian]

LMAO the person that wrote this stupid 12 steps to bring back Once Upon a Time is so transparent as a SQ shipper it's ridiculous.

They "love" Emma and Hook but want them to be placed on the backburner to highlight other romances like Rumbelle and Outlaw Queen. These last episodes have highlighted Rumbelle though, how freaking awful it is. Outlaw Queen is dead ship walking. 

 

Oh and more Emma and Regina of course. 

 

God that article ticked me off, because the means were so clear oh and the number one thing was give us the LGBT romance. Oh you're getting it just not the one you want.

[Shanna Marie]

I think it's a callback to their conversation in Good Form, just with their positions flipped. Except I never believed that Hook just saved Charming for Emma and I am daring to hope that Charming is basically saying the same thing to Hook here.

Of course, we're missing all the context, so who knows what the conversation is really about, who started it, or what they're really saying, but I don't know that I'd equate the situations. I don't think Hook saved David just because of Emma, but I also don't think he cared all that much about David. He was just being a basic human being who didn't want to watch someone die when he knew a way to stop it. He didn't really go out of his way or put himself at much risk. He was merely doing the right thing by sharing information. Only a jerk would have let David die, so Hook's actions there didn't say much other than that he was being a decent person rather than a truly selfish pirate. On the other hand, David is taking a huge risk to save Hook at potentially great cost. I'd guess he's mostly doing so for Emma and not because he cares about Hook, though he does owe Hook a lot, between saving his life in Neverland, all the help he's given Emma, the help during the time travel, bringing Emma and Henry back to their family, and dying a couple of times on their behalf.

 

But I'm not going to judge anyone based on two lines from the script. I'll be judgmental later.

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

I wonder for whom this gravestone is. Ruby seems pretty distraught in front of it.

Maybe it's Dorothy's? I know the crack means they went to somewhere worse, but the show could easily say the "unbreakable curse" is identical. You know, for magic reasons.

Edited April 17, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[CheshireCat]

KingOfHearts, on 17 Apr 2016 - 4:57 PM, said:

Maybe it's Dorothy's? I know the crack means they went to somewhere worse, but the show could easily say the "unbreakable curse" is identical. You know, for magic reasons.

 

Or maybe it's Ruby's boyfriend's who she killed or her mother's? Either one would be very cruel though!

[kili]

Or maybe it's Ruby's boyfriend's who she killed or her mother's?

It had better not be her boyfriend's. Peter didn't do anything wrong other than trust his girlfriend and Ruby did nothing wrong but try to protect her boyfriend. Peter does not deserve to be sent to a worse place. If he has, this arc better end with all those Lost Souls being saved. 

 

Ruby barely knew her Mom and was the one that killed her to save Snow from her.  She might be upset about her going to a worse place, but distraught?

[Rosiejuliemom]

Maybe it's Dorothy's? I know the crack means they went to somewhere worse, but the show could easily say the "unbreakable curse" is identical. You know, for magic reasons.

 

My guess is Peter. It would be a nice callback to Ruby's backstory.

 

Oohhh...could it be Granny's? Maybe she died right after everyone left for the Underworld and went to the bad place for excessive bitching about a power outage. Ruby wouldn't know since she's been in the EF/Oz, and I'd imagine she would be pretty distraught. The upcoming funeral scene might be for Granny, depending on how time flows in Underbrooke vs. Storybrooke.

 

*Note* I really hope I'm wrong about this.

[KingOfHearts]

I thought about Peter, but that would probably detract from her new possible romance with Dorothy.

Edited April 17, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Oohhh...could it be Granny's? Maybe she died right after everyone left for the Underworld and went to the bad place for excessive bitching about a power outage. Ruby wouldn't know since she's been in the EF/Oz, and I'd imagine she would be pretty distraught. The upcoming funeral scene might be for Granny, depending on how time flows in Underbrooke vs. Storybrooke.

 

Granny was shown alive in Storybrooke in 5x14 when Rumple saw Belle in the diner with Leroy.

 

Also, Granny in BTS for episode 5x22, so I think we're safe from Granny killing.

 

So once again, everyone is in the big scene/episode except Robin? Honestly, what's up with that? They're deliberately keeping him out of the episodes now.

 

The thing that I've noticed especially in the BTS/filming pics is that Lana is consistently paired with Jared. Henry and Regina are always standing next to each other when Robin is not there while Snowing and CS are with their own pairings. 

 

I think it's interesting, especially if we're really getting a Robin death, and a Robin who might be coming back. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

So Belle and Rumple might do that TLK thingy before CS. lol

[Mathius]

The gravestone was Auntie Em's, it was shown cracked after she got melted.

 

So Belle and Rumple might do that TLK thingy before CS. lol

 

No, Belle explained in 5x02 how/why that would not work, and this episode reiterated that.

 

She's getting a TLK from her father once they get back to Storybrooke.

 

Oh, and David, like Snow, Henry and Regina, is doing all this just for Emma, not for Hook. Emma is the only one who is there for Hook.

 

Well, the episode just proved that wrong, David admitted that part of the reason was also that Hook had "grown on him". ^_^

 

I think Henry is there for Hook too as well as for Emma, but that's probably more because of his "wannabe-hero" complex than anything else.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mathius

[KateJones]

So what if the funeral is for Belle's dad and she's stuck like that forever? A girl can dream.

[scenicbyway]

Seriously though, what's happened to Robin? Why promote him to series regular only to basically write him off after Zelena has the baby? If Hades is going after people in Zelena's way it's only a matter of time before Robin runs out of time. What I find bizarre is that Regina doesn't even seem bothered by his absence.