Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[stealinghome]

I saw someone online call A&E "The Brothers Dimm" the other day. I think that's my new pet name for them.

omfg, that's amazing. Bwah! I hereby nominate us all to use "The Brothers Dimm" whenever we talk about Adam and Eddie in the future!

[retrograde]

of Colin and Robert rehearsing wharf scene.

Looks like the broom is supposed to appear then disappear, so I assume he's using it to make a point or as a joke more than a literal "use this" kinda thing.

Rumple also looks imposing and calm and in control -- so either Hook isn't the one blackmailing him, or his threat has lost its power.

[RadioGirl27]

Looks like the broom is supposed to appear then disappear, so I assume he's using it to make a point or as a joke more than a literal "use this" kinda thing.

Rumple also looks imposing and calm and in control -- so either Hook isn't the one blackmailing him, or his threat has lost its power.

 

Yeah, after watching that video, I think Rumple is the one in control and not Hook. That brings me back to my theory that Rumple is somehow forcing Hook to help him with something (whoever is blackmailing him or something else), and the hand is a way to control him.

Edited August 22, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[stealinghome]

I mean, even if it is Hook blackmailing Rumpel, let's be real here. Hook's plans in the past have had like a 1% success rate, and more often than not he gets knocked out cold, so I wouldn't be very intimidated if I were Rumpel. Plus, he's the master of turning a disadvantage to an advantage.

[Serena]

Maybe Rumple doesn't actually know who the blackmailer is, and enlists Hook's help to find out because if he asked someone else, they'd definitely tell Belle? And the hand is how he bribes him.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Serena

[patchwork]

Maybe Rumple doesn't actually know who the blackmailer is, and enlists Hook's help to find out because if he asked someone else, they'd definitely tell Belle? And the hand is how he bribes him.

 

I really like that idea but the stuff on the picnic table looks like Hook's getting ready to chop his hand off.  

[retrograde]

Hook seems to have some agency in this situation though, because he gets angry at Rumple in the car scene.

I reckon he made some deal with Rumple for the hand (which may or may not have involved him thinking he could blackmail him with the dagger) and Rumple tricked him in some way. But yes, if he wants rid of it and can't bring himself to cut it, he will be in Rumple's debt.

[RadioGirl27]

From Spoiler Room:

 

I saw the EW questions for Once Upon a Time. Why no Rumple or Belle questions? It made me sad, I know there had been some. — Karen
I did ask about them… just not during The Hot Seat. On the Belle side, there’s this. But on the Rumple side, I hear things are going to get very contentious again between him and Hook this season. “Hook and Rumplestiltskin have a very long history that is blood-riddled and difficult that has been put aside for a little while due to circumstance,” executive producer Adam Horowitz tells me. “But now that circumstances have changed, that past history is going to rear its head again.” Let’s just hope Hook doesn’t steal another one of his wives.

Edited August 22, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Serena]

I really like that idea but the stuff on the picnic table looks like Hook's getting ready to chop his hand off.

It could still work if there's some kind of catch after Hook gets the hand back, and he doesn't want it anymore.

Other possibilities: Hook seems very friendly with Elsa, maybe he wants Rumple to do something to help her?

I'm trying to think of some way Hook could think he'd get away with blackmailing Rumple. Robert said there's a dagger switch, so at some point it'll actually be in Belle's hands. Maybe that's when it happens?

I don't care if Hook goes bad-ish/grey and does stuff against Rumple - I just don't want him to be stupid.

[Rumsy4]

I need to stop reading these dang interviews. I'm ready to flip a table. No--several tables. I know it's the interviewer's insertion--but are we back to "stealing wives" again?

 

Also, A&E weren't kidding when they said S4 was going to be an emotionally reset. So, we are not only back to Regina and Emma bickering, but Hook vs Rumple starts again. Maybe the Milah thing will come up now that Rumple has re-married. I could be a good thing, as long as they don't make them act like idiots (so, no). Regina will be mad at Emma from the Marian thing, and Rumple will be mad at Hook for the Elsa thing. 

[RadioGirl27]

This just shows a tremendous lack of creativity. They don't know what to do with the characters so instead of trying to create new, exciting stuff, they reuse their own storylines over and over again. The Brothers Dimm, indeed.

[Curio]

I know it's the interviewer's insertion--but are we back to "stealing wives" again?

That part just made me laugh. It's like the EW writer wanted to say something to purposely get the fans to bicker in the comments and say "OMG Hook would never do that!" or "OMGZ ya he totally would he's so evil!" But really, we're all just sitting here like, dude... I don't even think Rumple is invested in that marriage. Hook would actually be like LOL have fun listening to "You have a true haaaart" every day, I'll keep my awesome savior girlfriend instead.

 

This just shows a tremendous lack of creativity. They don't know what to do with the characters so instead of trying to create new, exciting stuff, they reuse their own storylines over and over again.

I'm usually one of the first people to jump on the these-writers-lack-creatity train, but I'm actually glad they're addressing the Hook vs. Rumple stuff again. They never really fully resolved their issues, they kind of just agreed to stop trying to kill each other for the sake of saving the town/Henry. But their disdain for each other never went away, so even though they might not be plotting to kill each other anymore, they're still going to fight and make the other person's life a bit more miserable... at least until they actually acknowledge everything that has gone down between them and truly apologize to each other.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Curio

[retrograde]

Eh, I'll wait to see how it plays out, but I think Rumple and Hook butting heads is a pretty natural outcome of the two living in the same town (especially now Neal is gone and Henry is connected to both of them). In theory, at least, I am fine with this storyline.

[KingOfHearts]

Hook and Rumple's revenge arc wasn't even that epic. Hook realized revenge wasn't the answer, and Rumple just pretty much called a truce. Neither of them really have any reason to fight each other. Hook spent most of his years away in Neverland. The only reason he hated Rumple was because he killed Milah, and he wanted to avenge her. He sort of did that already when he poisoned Rumple, then he realized revenge wasn't so sweet. The two of them should really be over it by now, because neither of them have anything to gain from it.

 

Rumple likes Emma and wants her on his side... well killing her boyfriend isn't going to help with that. Then Hook should know working with Rumple would make Emma mad if he's messing with deals or blackmails, or even endangering himself.

 

These spoilers A&E keep giving out are just plain silly. If they start wrecking everyone's character arcs....

Edited August 22, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

Even though Hook agreed to bury the hatchet and is now in love with Emma, I don't expect him to stop hating Rumple ever. Aren't we always complaining about how the Charmings are ridiculously forgiving of Regina? Hook hating Rumple makes sense, and the fact that he's now married when he murdered his last wife would trigger anyone. I just wasn't expecting it because this show is shit at showing people reacting reasonably to stuff.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Serena

[sharky]

I need to stop reading these dang interviews. I'm ready to flip a table. No--several tables. I know it's the interviewer's insertion--but are we back to "stealing wives" again?

To be fair, as you mention, it is the interviewer's insertion so I wouldn't put much weight in it. The fact does remain that Rimple is the reason that Hook still doesn't have his hand -- well, up until now -- and I could see that causing some lingering tension between them. Also, remember how wacky Hook got by having Zelena threaten Emma. Now imagine the person who took your first love and your hand is now threatening your second love. I can see it happening this way and we would "see" how far Hook has come in the past 10 days in Storybrooke by actually telling Emma what's going on this time.

[stealinghome]

Even though Hook agreed to bury the hatchet and is now in love with Emma, I don't expect him to stop hating Rumple ever. Aren't we always complaining about how the Charmings are ridiculously forgiving of Regina? Hook hating Rumple makes sense, and the fact that he's now married when he murdered his last wife would trigger anyone. I just wasn't expecting it because this show is shit at showing people reacting reasonably to stuff.

I agree that Hook and Rumpel should never be best buds--a simmering disdain for the other and being barely polite to the other is realistically the most one could hope for with them--but what seems like backtracking to me is to have Rumpel and Hook feuding again. Ie, it's not the feelings that bother me, it's them acting on it. I would think both men, at this point, have much better things to do than that--like go on one's honeymoon (Rumpel) or on a date with one's new paramour (Hook)/NOT screw up his new relationship because of old grudges.

Edited August 22, 2014 by stealinghome

[Jean]

Maybe the renewed feud is over Elsa. I think Hook knew Elsa or at least of her. For all we know the "feud" lasts an episode and is done and over. Those 2 like to talk about a 2 second moment like it's a season long arc or something.

[retrograde]

I don't think Hook or Rumple would randomly go out of their way to attack the other, but I don't think either would hesitate much to exploit the other if it a) got them something they/their loved ones wanted, or b) they or a loved one was in danger.

So, for instance, if Hook stumbled on the dagger info AND he was looking to get his hand back, I don't think he'd have qualms about blackmailing Rumple (for ethical reasons; I acknowledge there are many pragmatic reasons blackmailing such a powerful guy is unwise).

[Kaw912]

I agree that Hook and Rumpel should never be best buds--a simmering disdain for the other and being barely polite to the other is realistically the most one could hope for with them--but what seems like backtracking to me is to have Rumpel and Hook feuding again. Ie, it's not the feelings that bother me, it's them acting on it. I would think both men, at this point, have much better things to do than that--like go on one's honeymoon (Rumpel) or on a date with one's new paramour (Hook)/NOT screw up his new relationship because of old grudges.

I would totally agree with you if they were once again feuding over what happened with Milah, or if it were simply over Rumple being married again, which is why I think they've got to be at odds with each other over something else. The bad blood between them in the past makes it easier and more believable for them to be feuding over another, unrelated cause. What that could be, I have no idea. The more spoilers I read and see coming in from the filming of this episode the more confused I feel.

[Anakerie]

I actually love the idea of Rumple going Dr. Strangelove/Evil Dead 2 with Hook's restored hand and making Hook do assorted fun things like punching Henry (repeatedly), grabbing Granny's ass, and using a Sharpie to write inappropriate limericks on Leroy. The possibilities are endless. Or after restoring it, giving Hook a graphic description of what Rumple and the Hand used to do on cold lonely winter nights in the Dark Castle. Maybe that's why Hook is crying and trying to chop it off.

[Curio]

I actually love the idea of Rumple going Dr. Strangelove/Evil Dead 2 with Hook's restored hand

Oh god, now I have the visual of Hook's left hand trying to choke himself to death while speaking in a German accent. 

 

Actually, if Rumple is the one controlling Hook's hand and one of the bad guys finds Rumple's dagger, they'd have a two for one deal! They could force Rumple to do one thing using his dagger, and then force Rumple to tell Hook to do another thing. 

Edited August 22, 2014 by Curio

[Amerilla]

I love the way you think, Anakerie. I'd watch the hell out of that.

I think you're on the right track, Kaw912. I don't think they can be feuding over Milah. With Emma and Belle in the picture, there's no particular mileage for the show in reminding the audience about her.

[retrograde]

Though if Emma tries on the "Can you play nice with Rumple because he's Henry's grandfather," line, I do hope he throws back some "Yeah and Henry would have another grandmother if Runple hadn't murdered her."

I'm pretty happy for Hook to keep hating on Rumple if only because someone on this show needs to.

[sharky]

Though if Emma tries on the "Can you play nice with Rumple because he's Henry's grandfather," line, I do hope he throws back some "Yeah and Henry would have another grandmother if Runple hadn't murdered her."

I don't know. I wouldn't have a problem with Hook trying to at least be civil with Rumple for Henry's sake. I think Hook has shown that he does genuinely regret what happened between him and Neal. Because of that plus the fact that Henry is Emma's son, I think Hook feels the need to be on his best behavior when it comes to Henry so why now? And at least it could maybe make Henry tolerable.

[Curio]

"Yeah and Henry would have another grandmother if Rumple hadn't murdered her."

To which Emma would reply, "You mean my son's grandmother who you banged? I'd like to forget about that if you don't mind..."

Edited August 23, 2014 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

I'm more concerned with Rumple and Hook going behind Belle and Emma's back, as if the dagger thing didn't bother me enough. Right now I think the dagger and Marian are enough angst. I'd like to see at least one couple on the show moving steady besides Mr. and Mrs. Snowflake.

 

I'm still processing this... I think knowing exactly who the Snow Queen is will help piece things together, since she's supposedly the connection between Once and Frozen.

Edited August 22, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

I don't know. I wouldn't have a problem with Hook trying to at least be civil with Rumple for Henry's sake. I think Hook has shown that he does genuinely regret what happened between him and Neal. Because of that plus the fact that Henry is Emma's son, I think Hook feels the need to be on his best behavior when it comes to Henry so why now? And at least it could maybe make Henry tolerable.

Hook seems to have very poor impulse control when it comes to holding his tongue, though. He frequently took potshots at Emma and her parents last season, even though it was hardly conducive to winning her heart/getting in her pants. And those are people he likes. He might agree not to interfere with Henry spending time with Bad Grandpa if that's what Emma agrees to, but I doubt he'd be very "civil" with or about Gold. 

[RadioGirl27]

This spoiler about Hook and Rumple being at odds with each other make sense, what happened between them was just too much. But at the same time it feels repetitive. It's like A&E couldn't find something new to do with both of them and went "oh, Hook and Rumple hated each other, lets do that again". But I'm a bit drunk right now, so I don't know.

[Kaw912]

This spoiler about Hook and Rumple being at odds with each other make sense, what happened between them was just too much. But at the same time it feels repetitive. It's like A&E couldn't find something new to do with both of them and went "oh, Hook and Rumple hated each other, lets do that again". But I'm a bit drunk right now, so I don't know.

I see your point, but at the same time I've read both here, at TWoP, and on other forums where people have been critical of the fact that the writers have had these two people who despised each other to the point that they spent centuries trying to figure out how to kill each other - at least Hook did that - suddenly be able to put their differences aside and coexist with each other as if everything was fine and dandy between them. Now they're finally addressing the animosity these two have towards each other, and people are accusing the writers of recycling old story lines.

Clearly the Rumple/Hook feud wasn't addressed during Season 3 because the characters spent most of the season apart from one another, and when there was an opportunity for them to interact they were both busy trying to protect people they cared about from the Big Bad Villains Peter Pan and Zelena. They didn't really even have time to be thinking about how much they still hated each other. Apparently, they will be spending more time in close proximity to one another this season, so the writers have decided that this is as good a time as any to revisit their old feud. I would never expect Hook and Rumple to be buddies. The big question here is whether or not the writers manage to write their relationship in an interesting and compelling way, which, yes, is a reason in and of itself to be concerned about what is going to happen.

I'm willing to give it a chance. I think Colin and Bobby play well off of each other, so I think exploring the bad blood between Hook and Rumple could make for a compelling story, not to mention that it will give the actors something more interesting to do than make puppy eyes at some female. As others have mentioned, I'm very glad we'll get to see these characters involved in a storyline that is not focused on their romantic relationships. That is, until a small but vocal group of Pirate Gold shippers start harassing A & E to seize the opportunity to explore a gay relationship between these two characters who have so much tension between them they clearly want each other.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Kaw912

[Anakerie]

Pirate Gold really does have a nice ring to it. Hook brings Rumple flowers. Rumple responds by producing a broom.

 

Hook:  That escalated quickly...

 

 

[stealinghome]

You know, I would totally pay for an episode where half the characters get whammied with the love potion from A Midsummer Night's Dream and fall in love with wildly inappropriate targets of affection. Like I'm snickering just thinking about it.

[Dianthus]

It would make sense to me if Rumple and Hook were feuding over Elsa. Rumple had her contained, and Hook released her. Old stuff would come up, and Hook would be very worried about what Rumple might do. 

I know this show moves quick, but d*mn - 5(?) eps in and things have degraded badly enough that Hook's desperate enough to do something as crazy stupid as chopping off his own hand! He could bleed out and die, even with the bandages. It's an interesting flip, tho'. Rumple crippled himself before he became the Dark One, then he crippled Hook (who did not steal Milah, she left Rumple of her own accord), and now Hook's considering crippling himself.

If Hook knew, or at least knew of, Elsa from the EF - maybe he'd stash her in the library, and that's why Will's trying to break into it? Maybe it's EM's character blackmailing Rumple? Wouldn't it have to be someone who wasn't afraid of or concerned about his powers?

[KAOS Agent]

 

I would totally pay for an episode where half the characters get whammied with the love potion from A Midsummer Night's Dream and fall in love with wildly inappropriate targets of affection.

 

Except if Emma didn't suddenly have the hots for Regina, the Swan Queeners would go ballistic and if she did, SQ would become marginally canon, so I vote no on that scenario. I'd be cool if Hook's hand is in love with Rumpel though. Rumpel let it sleep on its own pillow in a place of honor, so I could see it having some affection for him. Seriously though, if Hook is going to self-mutilate, he should at least do it at the hospital where they can treat it and give him lots and lots of fun drugs.

[stealinghome]

Except if Emma didn't suddenly have the hots for Regina, the Swan Queeners would go ballistic and if she did, SQ would become marginally canon, so I vote no on that scenario. I'd be cool if Hook's hand is in love with Rumpel though. Rumpel let it sleep on its own pillow in a place of honor, so I could see it having some affection for him. Seriously though, if Hook is going to self-mutilate, he should at least do it at the hospital where they can treat it and give him lots and lots of fun drugs.

Responding in the Wishing on a Star thread!

[FurryFury]

I really don't mind the Hook/Rumple storyline. First, we still have no idea about the context. It may be just a B-plot in one episode, or there may be some unusual circumstances. Second, I really, really miss Rumple interacting with someone else in the main cast except for Belle or Neal - and Hook's not such a bad choice, although my favorite relationship of Rumple's is still with Regina (second favorite is Emma). Third - yes, the sudden truce between them was never really explained and them suddenly being OK with each other would reek of contrivance. It makes a lot of sense for there still to be some tension. Hell, there should probably always be some tension.

 

I don't, however, think Hook's connected to Elsa in any way. I don't mind to have a villain connected to Hook in some way in theory, but not her. Maybe the show will do Davy Jones one day?

[RadioGirl27]

As I said before, it's not the storyline per se what bothers me. Robert and Colin are, for me, the best actors of this show and I love to see them working together. It's the sense of "I've seen that before". I have the same feeling with other storylines in this show (and other shows).

And really, neither Rumple nor Hook are the same people they were in season 2, especially the second one. So they need to find a very good reason for their feud to come back. And I just don't want it to be because of Neal and his relationship with Emma and because Emma is now with Hook. Or something related to Henry. And we know this writers would totally go there.

Edited August 23, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[FurryFury]

I don't think they'll want to bring Neal up in a major-ish way. Naming Emma's brother after him felt like a farewell gesture to me (as much as I hated it). Neither will they want to mention Milah, probably. I think it's a new issue possibly complicated by some past stuff, but we'll see.

[Shanna Marie]

I don't mind getting into the enmity between Hook and Rumple as long as it's not a rehash of "you stole my wife/you killed her" feud. There are plenty of other things they could clash about, and all the bad blood would just add fuel to whatever that is. I've been curious about how their truce would end up working when they aren't working toward a common goal or fighting a common enemy and instead having to live in the same town with an overlapping family/social circle. Even if they're not at odds over something specific, there are some simmering issues. For instance, I can't imagine Belle and Hook ever being romantically attracted to each other (though there's probably some fanfic, somewhere), but Rumple is insecure about his worth as an object of love, so I could see him being pretty paranoid about Belle being in the same town as the man who "stole" his last wife. Meanwhile, Hook has strong enough jerk tendencies that I could imagine him making a point of being friendly to Belle in public just to get under Rumple's skin and make him more paranoid.

 

The few glimpses we've had of whatever's going on with Hook and Rumple this season look entirely different from their past interactions. They seem to be seeking each other out, and not in the "Aha! I've found you! Now I will have my revenge!" way. They're just talking. There may be raised voices and angry words, but there doesn't seem to be any physical or magical violence, and Hook seems to be walking away unscathed from both encounters that we've seen. Rumple comes upon an unconscious/asleep Hook who would be pretty vulnerable or helpless and does absolutely nothing to him. So there has to be a lot more going on than the old "I hate you because you stole my wife"/"I hate you because you killed my love and cut off my hand" thing, or else they're handling it in a very, very different way.

[legaleagle53]

At least it would make sense, if magic is genetically inherited in the show's world (see: Cora/Regina/Zelena).

 

 Neither Regina nor Zelena inherited their magical powers from Cora.  Cora hadn't yet acquired her powers when Zelena was born, so Zelena couldn't have inherited hers from Cora because there was nothing to inherit, and Regina acquired her own powers the same way that Cora did -- by having Rumpel teach her how to tap into the magical forces that existed in the Enchanted Forest.

Edited August 23, 2014 by legaleagle53

[Jean]

I think Rumple and Hook play well off each other in that bickering disdainful fighting kind of way. The all dramatic feud sucks. The lighter moments, Hook calling out Rumple's wardrobe, Rumple stealing Hook's sword in Neverland and the future Hook with Rumple all played better than the swelling music DRAMA stuff in S2.

Anyway, I'm hoping this is what Ep. 4 brings, more of a campy tone. I mean Rumple and Hook are 2 of the more flamboyant characters.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Neither Regina nor Zelena inherited their magical powers from Cora.  Cora hadn't yet acquired her powers when Zelena was born, so Zelena couldn't have inherited hers from Cora because there was nothing to inherit, and Regina acquired her own powers the same way that Cora did -- by having Rumpel teach her how to tap into the magical forces that existed in the Enchanted Forest.

 

Cora had her powers, she just didn't know how to use them. Zelena had hers from birth, and when Rumple met Regina for the first time, he felt the magic in her. ("Ooo and powerful!") If Cora didn't have the ability, Rumple wouldn't have been able to teach her.

[FurryFury]

Neither Regina nor Zelena inherited their magical powers from Cora.  Cora hadn't yet acquired her powers when Zelena was born, so Zelena couldn't have inherited hers from Cora because there was nothing to inherit, and Regina acquired her own powers the same way that Cora did -- by having Rumpel teach her how to tap into the magical forces that existed in the Enchanted Forest.

 

I mean genetic/innate capacity for magic. Being taught didn't grant Cora magic, it just let her tap into the potential that had already existed. Basically, what KingOfHearts said.

[Jean]

I think that Rumple/Woegina line was to highlight Rumple's wonky future seeing abilities and knowing that she was going to cast the curse. He obviously can't detect or feel magic because he never felt Emma's. I thought he always knew Emma had magic but someone here pointed out that the writers said Rumple was surprised that she had magic at the end of 2x09.

But if Cora had innate or genetic magic abilities why did she need to be taught? Baby Zelena did magic without ever having been taught it. If it was innate, it would've manifested itself before.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Jean

[FurryFury]

Responded in the "Magic" thread.

[RadioGirl27]

Episode 5 title: "Breaking Glass"

 

I guess episode 5 it's going to be Regina's and not Hook's

[KingOfHearts]

Sidney is getting killed off?

Edited August 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[FurryFury]

Hopefully, Sidney will at least call Regina out on his imprisonment.

[YaddaYadda]

I totally read that as "Breaking Bad" and had a WTF moment.  I'm blaming the sun on this one!

[KingOfHearts]

If you haven't slammed your head against the wall enough today, here's another interview with A&E:

https://d23.com/once-upon-a-time-frozen-elsa-abc/?int_cmp=d23_abc_ouatfrozen_201408

 

I'm truthfully mad Zelena is "dead". I know some of us found Zelena very annoying, but killing her off swiftly in a jail cell felt very cheap. "Well we're done with this toy, throw it in the trash!" Seriously - does story coherency mean anything to these people?

 

EDIT: I think this article may have been a duplicate from another one on another site, but it was posted as new.

Edited August 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts