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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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Jul 68

Jul 68

If Ruby ends up in the Underworld looking for Dorothy, is the LGBT romance between her and Dorothy?

They probably think they're being clever again forgetting that LOTS of people know what "Friend of Dorothy" is a euphamism for.

However, Dorothy mysteriously disappears, and Ruby’s search for her new friend lands her in the Underworld.

Seems that it's easier to get into Underbrooke than to walk out of Storybrooke unscathed.

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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

Curio

Curio

So it looks like the portal crew runs into Daniel Boone. Are you kidding me??

 

It's official: the portal crew shenanigans are going to be way more fun than the stupid NYC Henry/Violet stuff. What ABC gods do I need to pray to to make the Snow/Charming/Hook/Zelena plot the main arc over Emma/Rumple/Henry/Violet/Regina in the finale?

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kili

kili

So it looks like the portal crew runs into Daniel Boone. Are you kidding me??

Okay, I'm going to be pedantic here...that's not Daniel Boone, that's Davey Crockett. They are easy to confuse because they both were historical US frontiersmen that wore coon skin caps, had television shows made about them and were played by Fess Parker, but Daniel Boone was on NBC. Davey Crocket is Disney.

Souris

Souris

(edited)

Okay, I'm going to be pedantic here...that's not Daniel Boone, that's Davey Crockett. They are easy to confuse because they both were historical US frontiersmen that wore coon skin caps, had television shows made about them and were played by Fess Parker, but Daniel Boone was on NBC. Davey Crocket is Disney.

 

I just realized I got the wrong frontiersman! I blame it on extreme disconsolateness after the NCAA title game. Not pedantic at all. (Pedantic is me telling you that Daniel Boone never actually wore a coonskin cap, but everybody thinks he does because of that TV show.)

 

In either case, I don't like them using real people. Didn't like it with Blackbeard, don't like it with Davy Crockett. Maybe they'll say he didn't actually die at the Alamo but got sucked through a portal.

Edited by Souris
KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

Yes, but Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone were real actual people. They aren't questionable legends like you could make a case for with Blackbeard or even Robin Hood. Davy was a US Congressman. This isn't someone whose story you can pretend we got wrong. There is actual real provable history about them. Their ancestors are still living today. 

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Souris

Souris

Why do you guys think it's Davey Crockett?

 

Check out this pic from the old Disney TV show.

 

Yes, but Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone were real actual people. They aren't questionable legends like you could make a case for with Blackbeard or even Robin Hood. Davy was a US Congressman. This isn't someone whose story you can pretend we got wrong. There is actual real provable history about them. Their ancestors are still living today. 

 

Exactly. That's why I don't like it. And I feel the same way about Blackbeard, since he's so historically known along the N.C. coast. It's like if they brought in George Washington or Winston Churchill.

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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

(edited)

Didn't like it with Blackbeard, don't like it with Davy Crockett. Maybe they'll say he didn't actually die at the Alamo but got sucked through a portal.

Maybe, like everyone else on this show, he's suffering from a memory curse, and Zelena, Hook, and the Charmings will have to help him Remember the Alamo! 

 

(I see what you mean about the real person thing. I feel bad even joking about it.)

Edited by InsertWordHere
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Souris

Souris

(edited)

Maybe, like everyone else on this show, he's suffering from a memory curse, and Zelena, Hook, and the Charmings will have to help him Remember the Alamo!

 

You get a big Like, and also a groan, but there's not a groan button. ;-)

 

I wonder if we'll get a bunch of personages in this wacky realm. Or mental institution. Maybe Amelia Earhart & Jimmy Hoffa are there, too.

 

Maybe some Big Bad is collecting historical and fairytale personages for their creepy mental institution/zoo, LOL.

Edited by Souris
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KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

 

 

Maybe, like everyone else on this show, he's suffering from a memory curse, and Zelena, Hook, and the Charmings will have to help him Remember the Alamo!

(I see what you mean about the real person thing. I feel bad even joking about it.)

 

Yeah, Davy's daughter was a young teen when he died and he had other children. He was married. Saying he fell through a portal just before he died (essentially abandoning all those poor people who died at the Alamo) and can't remember who he is would be a complete travesty. It's not cute or funny. It's depressing and horrible. And then what? They get him his memory and send him back to the Alamo to die, so history isn't changed?

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

Davy Crockett has some "legend" characteristics about him. You can pick it apart from the real figure, I believe. It's worse than Blackbeard because he is more recent in history and we know more about him. Audiences are going to be confused. If they had a cow about Cruella or Frankenstein...

 

Fun fact: I actually have a friend who is related to the real Davy Crockett.

Edited by KingOfHearts
KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

(edited)

 

Maybe some Big Bad is collecting historical and fairytale personages for their creepy mental institution/zoo, LOL.

 

I'm going to pretend that this is happening except some of those people really are crazy and only think that they are the historical persons they pretend to be. As someone who gives tours to elementary kids at a historical site about another famous mountain man, I can tell you that the amount of time, effort and care that goes into making sure that all information is historically accurate but still interesting is immense and dumb TV shows and movies that make up shit about these people make our jobs that much harder. 

 

Also, I'm in a bitch of a mood because my dad put down his dog today and keeps calling me because he's so upset about it and because he's travelling has nothing to take his mind off of it. Not a good day to try to remain even remotely positive about the developments on this show.

 

ETA: I just noticed that Meghan Ory is in Her Handsome Hero. It's interesting that Ruby shows up next week before the expanded Oz-ian adventure. Maybe she just pops up at the end as some sort of cliffhanger?

Edited by KAOS Agent
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Maybe it's not Davy Crockett. French Canadian fur trappers dressed like that. I know the Davy Crockett is recognizable by his hat, and outfit, but it's not exclusive to him.

 

Plus they gang looks to have landed in the middle of the woods.

 

If this is some asylum arc, you can't have just one crazy, you have to have several of them. Maybe he's some nutter pretending to be someone he isn't, see Simpsons episode with the white fat dude who pretended he was Michael Jackson.

kili

kili

(edited)

Maybe it's like "Night in the Museum" and they land somewhere where the museum becomes animated. Robin Williams played a statue of Teddy Williams in the movie.

 

Or maybe the guy lives in another realm where real-world legends from our world are stories in his realm. He's just going to a fan convention wearing a cosplay outfit. Emma can for once face the situation where people she learned about in history class are just considered fun stories about unusual people. For once, the people from the Enchanted Forrest can say "Davey Crockett is real? He did kill a bear when he was only three? How?" "You're not telling me Henry VIII was a real person? Seriously, 6 wives?" "Somebody actually shot an arrow at an apple on their kid's head to prove what a good marksmen they are? Who would do something like that? You never shoot an arrow at somebody unless you want to kill them. One hiccup from the kid and he's dead. Did they arrest this William Tell for child endangerment?". 

Edited by kili
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Curio

Curio

I can get on board with with Jekyll and Hyde if that means the Storybrooke crew gets to wear awesome 1800s costumes for half an arc. (Victorian dresses. Charming and Hook wearing bowler and top hats, y'all.) Some of the posters here may not have cared for the Camelot arc, but at least it gave us some of the best costumes on the show for a few episodes. When a plot sucks in Storybrooke, there aren't any pretty costumes to distract me. But when a plot sucks in Camelot or the Enchanted Forest, at least the visuals are awesome.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

I didn't mind Blackbeard so much because that was a nickname, and is a pretty generic one. There could be multiple people known as Blackbeard, especially with multiple worlds involved. With Robin Hood, he may or may not have been a real person, and if he was a real person, he may or may not have been known as Robin Hood during his lifetime, and if he was, that may or may not have been his real name. I've even heard theories that this was a generic name given to people who did that sort of thing, so there may have been multiple Robin Hoods. But Davy Crockett was not only real for certain, but relatively recent. The Alamo really happened. It's a real place (that has lovely gardens).

 

But if this Davy is a crazy one in an institution, would someone in the Jekyll and Hyde era who thinks that's who he is dress like that? That seems to be more the image of Davy Crockett from the Disney TV show. The actual portraits of him I've seen (at the Alamo) aren't quite like that.

 

I can get on board with with Jekyll and Hyde if that means the Storybrooke crew gets to wear awesome 1800s costumes for half an arc. (Victorian dresses. Charming and Hook wearing bowler and top hats, y'all.)

Don't hold your breath about Hook looking any different. He'll be dressed in a close approximation of his usual pirate attire that has very little to do with the styles worn by everyone else around him. Because we might not recognize this rather striking-looking man with a hook for a hand otherwise.

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kili

kili

But if this Davy is a crazy one in an institution, would someone in the Jekyll and Hyde era who thinks that's who he is dress like that? That seems to be more the image of Davy Crockett from the Disney TV show. The actual portraits of him I've seen (at the Alamo) aren't quite like that.

 

Does it matter? If the person is crazy in our world, who says they would be obsessive about reality? They would be just as likely to latch onto the Disney version of Davey as the real one. Perhaps more likely.

 

If they are from another world and Davey is the stuff of their Fairytales, who says the Fairytales got every detail correct?The entire premise of the show is that the Fairytales we know aren't quite right. Snow White was never a bandit in the traditional version of the story. Little Red Riding Hood was not the wolf. A Fairytale about Davey would most likely emphasize the same quirky aspects as Disney did.

 

A popular theory is that Disney was an author. Perhaps he was an author for another realm.  Perhaps his version of Davey was a confluence of our world's Davey Crockett and some other realm's coonskin hat wearing legendary figure.

 

Maybe it's not Davy Crockett. French Canadian fur trappers dressed like that.

 

Traditionally, they wore a red toque. If they wore a pelt as a hat, it would most likely be of a beaver or maybe a bear.

legaleagle53

legaleagle53

Shanna Marie, on 05 Apr 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

I didn't mind Blackbeard so much because that was a nickname, and is a pretty generic one. There could be multiple people known as Blackbeard, especially with multiple worlds involved. With Robin Hood, he may or may not have been a real person, and if he was a real person, he may or may not have been known as Robin Hood during his lifetime, and if he was, that may or may not have been his real name. I've even heard theories that this was a generic name given to people who did that sort of thing, so there may have been multiple Robin Hoods. But Davy Crockett was not only real for certain, but relatively recent. The Alamo really happened. It's a real place (that has lovely gardens).

 

But if this Davy is a crazy one in an institution, would someone in the Jekyll and Hyde era who thinks that's who he is dress like that? That seems to be more the image of Davy Crockett from the Disney TV show. The actual portraits of him I've seen (at the Alamo) aren't quite like that.

 

Don't hold your breath about Hook looking any different. He'll be dressed in a close approximation of his usual pirate attire that has very little to do with the styles worn by everyone else around him. Because we might not recognize this rather striking-looking man with a hook for a hand otherwise.

 

But his usual pirate garb roughly corresponds to the early-mid-1800s, so he would actually blend right in with the Jekyll/Hyde era wardrobe that everyone else got to wear (and yes, I'd love to see Regina, Emma, and Zelena rocking the Victorian garb!).

KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

I do love the idea of a menagerie filled with random fictional characters set up like a mental institution. It would be nice to see some of the more obscure ones instead of real people. Maybe the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Ebeneezer Scrooge, Moby Dick, or Don Quixote. Bonus points if it's the same asylum Alice was in with OUATIW.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Does it matter? If the person is crazy in our world, who says they would be obsessive about reality? They would be just as likely to latch onto the Disney version of Davey as the real one. Perhaps more likely.

But the Disney version didn't exist until the 1950s, so if the asylum is in the Victorian era, they wouldn't have yet seen that imagery around Davy Crockett. But I'm probably being far too pedantic for a show that essentially throws a DVD library in the air and then creates plots based on what discs fall next to each other without ever looking at the actual literary or mythological source material (other than getting the silver slippers right in Oz, but that's a copyright/trademark issue).

 

But his usual pirate garb roughly corresponds to the early-mid-1800s, so he would actually blend right in with the Jekyll/Hyde era wardrobe that everyone else got to wear

Isn't Jekyll and Hyde more 1880s? So Hook's pirate garb would be rather dated. They'd need to give him a greatcoat with that half-cape thing around the shoulders. He really should have a shirt with a proper collar and a tie to go with the waistcoat. Maybe a hat. So not a big difference, but it would have looked more like a difference if he hadn't been dressed for the late 1700s/early 1800s in medieval Camelot (I will never forgive them. Never).

 

Bonus points if it's the same asylum Alice was in with OUATIW.

Ooh, that could work! The time period is sort of right, and that was a "Victorian literary" world rather than our real world. They thought Alice was crazy, but magic must work in that world because the rabbit was able to get there (wasn't there some suggestion that he couldn't get to our world until Rumple unbottled the magic?). So who else who'd had magical experiences might have ended up in the asylum there if magic existed but was being denied?

legaleagle53

legaleagle53

I just happened to think of a possibility based upon the fact that Zelena's time-travel spell is apparently 5B's Chekhov's Gun.  Suppose Hades manages to recreate the spell but somehow botches it and screws up the timeline so badly that our intrepid gang of heroes (including Zelena and a now-penitent Hades himself) has to spend half of Season 6 correcting the historical events that Hades inadvertently changes?

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kili

kili

But neither Davy Crockett nor Daniel Boone had beards.

 

But Grizzly Adams did. But he didn't wear a raccoon on his head. Maybe it's a new character. Grizzly Crockett? He is Davy's step-half-cousin-in-law.

 

One day, when Davey was only four, he went riding with his Scout Group and caught Grizzly doing some off-the-books archeology. Davey stole the Cross of Coincidences when Grizzly wasn't looking and after a mad cap race through the desert, Grizzly finally caught up with him. Davey tried to tell his dad about it, but his dad just made him count to 10 and said "Davey? We called the dog Davey. Your name is David". When the local law made Davey give back the Cross of Coincidences to Grizzly, Grizzly gave him his coonskin hat as a consolation prize and the rest, as they say, is history.

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kili

kili

The Davy Crockett canoes are one of my favorite things at Disneyland!

 

I love how everybody starts out enthusiastically, but a third of the way around the island, the "guides" have to start yelling at people to get back to paddling or the ride will never be over (and there is always one guy on the boat who cannot figure out how to get in synch with everybody else). About two thirds of the way around, people start wondering why they signed up to a work-out at Disneyland. Good Times.

 

Those "guides get pretty good looking arms by the end of the summer.

 

Maybe Grizzly Crockett lives on Tom Sawyer's island. Did we ever find out what Huck's Dad wore on his head? We know he died wearing a dress.

PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

(edited)

Geoffrey Hildrew's posting screen shots of his working screen for 5x 22

https://mobile.twitter.com/GeofreyHildrew/status/717578643359285248/photo/1

i can see from left to right:

Would you (it either says 'dare' or 'date') me

Henry and Violet

SOS (i think or it could be 505)

Emma-Hook (I think 30sec)

Tension-SOS ( or 505)

Magic (something I can't read)

Magic gone wrong

Beautiful lie (this is in grey so may be the song)

...although he says the tags are supposed to be cues from previous eps that are place holders for the music editor. ...

i wonder if Henry and Violet end up in New York by accident after mis-using or setting off some magical object and Emma and Regina have to go get them. If so, then i also wonder if what Henry and Violet do interferes with portal door that causes it 'to play up' and that's how Snowing and Killian get sucked in. I am basing this off the idea that Zelena -for all faults-is a damn accomplished witch and she probably wouldn't have an issue opening the portal so something else had to cause it to go haywire. ...

Edited by PixiePaws1
YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

(edited)

A quick thought this morning about the bearded man in that BTS with Colin, Josh, Bex and Ginny which I’m assuming is either for 5x22 or 5x23, and Jekyll and Hyde.

 

I’m not going to pretend I know a whole lot about American History. I know enough to get me by.

 

The bearded man and the way he is dressed threw me for a loop to be very honest, because he doesn’t look like he fits in at all with whatever the story for 6A is supposed to be.

 

But what if they're not bringing Jekyll and Hyde from England, but rather from 1800s America instead?

 

That's literally the only way I'm able to reconcile the fur trapper looking guy and Jekyll & Hyde. The costumes are yes, very England, but at the same time, they remind me of 19th Century America during the construction of the transcontinental railroads, and beyond (yes, used to watch Hell on Wheels, learned a lot about how people dressed in that time).

 

The bearded guy has nothing to do with England, but in a North American context, he makes a lot of sense. And while Jekyll and Hyde have nothing to do with with America, they can easily say that the good doctor decided to leave fairytale England and make a go of it because reasons.

 

Plus those extras that were pictured on Saturday by creepy Larry, their clothing also fits with both England and what women were wearing in the US.

 

What if they landed in "fairytale" United States instead of "fairytale" England?

 

Ah well, I will be content with whatever standalone amazing scenes/arcs the finale will inevitably produce, regardless of overall episode quality.

 

I will say that the reason the CS reunion was a tad underwhelming was probably because of whatever is going to go down with them between 5x20 and 5x23. They always give them a huge moment in the finale, and it doesn't look any different this season.

Edited by YaddaYadda
Curio

Curio

But what if they're not bringing Jekyll and Hyde from England, but rather from 1800s America instead? [...] What if they landed in "fairytale" United States instead of "fairytale" England?

I could buy that, and I wouldn't put it past these writers to change the entire setting of a famous novel to fit their needs. L. Frank Baum was an American author and The Wizard of Oz is an American story, but Zelena has a British accent. Belle randomly has an Australian accent. So I could see them making Jekyll and Hyde American, and since Sam Witwer and Hank Harris are American actors, it might be easier for them to use their natural accents.

 

I will say that the reason the CS reunion was a tad underwhelming was probably because of whatever is going to go down with them between 5x20 and 5x23. They always give them a huge moment in the finale, and it doesn't look any different this season.

 

But at a certain point, it doesn't matter how big of a moment that Emma and Hook scene in the finale is if they lose momentum getting there. That's what happened in 4B and what I fear is happening now. It wasn't very impactful that Emma finally revealed she was afraid of saying "I love you" to Hook in the Season 4 finale because they didn't even bother building that up during 4B; the plot point just randomly popped up in the finale and they expected us to care about it. So if Emma and Hook get a True Love's Kiss™ in the finale, it won't feel as powerful unless they actually give them some emotional scenes and screen time leading up to it. And based on the spoilers we have, I have little faith that that's what we're going to get. Their reunion was the perfect opportunity to spend some time building that momentum, and the writers wasted it.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

So if Emma and Hook get a True Love's Kiss™ in the finale, it won't feel as powerful unless they actually give them some emotional scenes and screen time leading up to it. And based on the spoilers we have, I have little faith that that's what we're going to get. Their reunion was the perfect opportunity to spend some time building that momentum, and the writers wasted it.

 

I'm sort of optimistic on this because Emma's centric is close to when they go back to Storybrooke which seems to be happening sometime in 5x21.

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Jul 68

Jul 68

(edited)

To me, Davy seems like a strange/kind of obscure historical figure to incorporate into the show, but then again even Fantasia is reasonably obscure in Australia, so he could be an entirely natural addition to the show in the writers' minds. All this talk about Davy is making me wish they would introduce the Jones one already ;)

Here in the states, Davy Crocket and Daniel Boone are far from obscure and are still taught in History classes as early as elementary school (Kindergarten - 5th grade). While I am wary of how real life persons might be portrayed with TS:TW, I am waiting to pass judgement until I see if/how it unfolds. ....crossing fingers and holding out hope.....

Edited by Jul 68
kili

kili

So if Emma and Hook get a True Love's Kiss™ in the finale

 

I've given up hope of a TLK from Emma and Hook - A&E are holding it in their back pocket for the final season and when it happens, we will be so fed up with their 87 failed TLKes that it won't mean anything (and the anti-CSers will call it ret-con to appease the CS shippers)

 

It seemed like the last episode was laying the ground work for the TLK to go to Zelena and Hades (Chekhov's TLK). Zelena will finally acquiesce to kissing Hades and his heart will grow three sizes that day and he will let everybody leave the Underworld (and carve the Roast Beast). His knew goal in life will be the GhostWhisperer/TheKidFromTheSixthSense where he helps the dead finish their business and move onto heaven.  We can even have a spin-off because the time is ripe for a Touched By an Angel/Quantum Leap revival.

 

Speaking of a revival, I see they are re-making the mother of all mini-series - Roots. Are mini-series coming back? If so, I recall another mega-mini-series that featured a guy with a beard and a fur hat....James Michener's "Centennial"  (Michener makes the work of Tolkien look tersely edited. Michener likes to give a lot of background - he typically starts his stories before the big bang). His stories are definitely the stuff of legends so maybe they are cribbing stuff from there (the guy in the hat was played by Richard Chamberlain, but it wasn't a coonskin hat - details...).

 

It's got to be Davey. Davey is defined by that coonskin hat. For those who haven't heard of him, go youtube The Ballad of Davey Crockett". That will give you a rundown of the Disney version of the dude because I very much doubt the real Mr. Crockett is going to show up on Once.

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RadioGirl27

RadioGirl27

I've given up hope of a TLK from Emma and Hook - A&E are holding it in their back pocket for the final season and when it happens, we will be so fed up with their 87 failed TLKes that it won't mean anything (and the anti-CSers will call it ret-con to appease the CS shippers)

Yeah, me too. I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't see that TLK happening anytime soon. Or ever, really.

 

It seemed like the last episode was laying the ground work for the TLK to go to Zelena and Hades (Chekhov's TLK).

I think it's going to be Ruby/Dorothy. The TLK to restart a heart was introduced in an episode with Dorothy in it and there was a lot of emphasis in her having "the love of the people". We know Ruby goes to the UW looking for her, that seems to indicate a strong bond.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

Maybe the TLK will go to Zelena and the baby? So far, all TLK's were between a mother and her child. (Though I would prefer if it involved Emma or at least Rumple and Belle because the curse is connected to Emma and could be connected to Rumple through the Dark Ones and it would make more sense if there was a connection to the curse (I'm operating under the assumption the curse wasn't broken yet))

Rumsy4

Rumsy4

Maybe the TLK will go to Zelena and the baby? So far, all TLK's were between a mother and her child. (Though I would prefer if it involved Emma or at least Rumple and Belle because the curse is connected to Emma and could be connected to Rumple through the Dark Ones and it would make more sense if there was a connection to the curse (I'm operating under the assumption the curse wasn't broken yet))

 

Charming and Snow had two True Love kisses, Aurora and Phillip had one, Emma and Elsa's had a True Love handshake, and Rumbelle had a part-TLK. 

 

I think it would be nice if a CS TLK broke the Treefying-curse on Storybrooke, but I have a feeling the writers will just work around the border curse using some other magic to get people out of Storybrooke for the finale. I think CS is going to have a True Love moment in Firebird, what with the pedestal and all. It may not be a kiss, but it will prove them to have True Love beyond a shadow of doubt. So, they can still save the Kiss for Season 6 or whatever. If Rumbelle has a True Love kiss this season, I will be speechless.

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