Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[FurryFury]

OK, wacky theorynbut is Hook really Hook? His new costume seems very similar to the Knave's. Is there maybe some sort of body switching going on, which explains all this? It would explain the recklessness with Gold, the fact that he has a hand and the punching a drunk Will if Will is actually Hook and vice versa.

 

While I love your idea (awesome BtVS flashbacks!), I'm not sure Knave/Hook would be the most logical pairing. The audience barely knows Knave, except for those ten people who watched Wonderland. Hook/Charming would probably be a better choice.

[Curio]

Maybe it's not as threatening of a Hook/Rumple conversation as we think it is? Because these pics show some kind of blue flowers being exchanged. (Edit: Okay, maybe 'exchanged' is the wrong word... being revealed?)

Edited August 20, 2014 by Curio

[Amerilla]

It's very hard to tell from only a few pictures and snatches of dialogue, but Killian has neither the brains nor any magic to go up against Gold. Threatening Gold just makes Killian look stupid. And without the 50 pounds of pirate costume, he really looks like a kid. Gold would make mincemeat of him if he wasn't such a popular part of the franchise.

Yeah, Once isn't the first or only show out there that requires a willing suspension of disbelief on the part of the audience to keep popular characters alive. It's just that the writers on this show seem less and less inclined to offer plausible rationales for the continued alive-ness of those characters, which is why this particular potential storyline has "trainwreck" written all over it.

I don't really see it being plausibly an effort on Hook's part to protect Henry. Even if it turns out he is the one who finds the dagger, Henry would be no threat to Gold - or at least no threat that couldn't be managed with very little effort. This is the Truest Stupid we're talking about, the kid who not long ago pulled his own heart out on a stranger's flimsy lie. Gold could quickly come up with about 1,368 different ways to manipulate him into keeping his mouth shut, including simply wiping his memory of ever finding the damn thing. (Or, you know, JUST MAGICALLY SWITCHING THE DAMN THING BACK SO BELLE *DOES* HAVE THE REAL ONE. Sorry to yell, this whole thing just makes me want to spit nails.) Plus, now that Henry isn't the Undoer, and now that he's Gold's last living link to Bae...no, I just don't see him doing anything beyond making sure Henry rides through life on a bed made of pure spun gold.

ETA: just saw a Canadagraphs tweet that Georgina was filmed coming out of Gold's shop with something in her hand, and since we know she's been filming other scenes with Colin, that adds to my sense that Henry is probably uninvolved in l'affaire dagger

Edited August 20, 2014 by Amerilla

[Rumsy4]

What if it's Henry blackmailing Rumple and Hook is protecting him?

You know--that might fit. Hook did something stupid when Zelena threatened Henry's life as well. Henry might have found out about the Dagger and confided in Killian. I think Henry's capable of emotionally wheedling Rumple to confess to Belle, and perhaps Hook is trying to keep Rumple from giving in to his baser instincts, and harming the boy.

[Jean]

I must have really lowered my expectations cause I'm not seeing a problem.  I think whatever going down is a plan hatched by Hook and Elsa, in which case Hook's got Elsa's firepower (or pardon ice power) to back him up. We know Rumple urned Elsa but she's also something he doesn't want to or can't deal with. We don't know who's more powerful. I also don't foresee Emma having a huge problem with Hook blackmailing Rumple. Elsa's her new bff and she's not exactly Ms. Morality.

 

Beyond that all I see is Rumple getting integrated back into town drama and sharing scenes with others besides Belle and the villian of the arc. Hook's doing something outside of a romance drama. Emma's doing something outside of romance drama. I don't even care that her seeing the Snow Queen in all her glory as early as ep. 4 will inevitably mean she'll get hit by the stupid stick from now on. I do wonder how that confrontation will end.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jean

[Shanna Marie]

Gee, I go out for one evening and the spoilers explode. Catching up:

 

"Hmmm what should I use these crazy ice-making powers for? I know: gelato!"

Well, duh! :-) That's totally how I'd use them.

 

Do we know if the Snow Queen is actually an evil Snow Queen? And I wonder if it will be a villain fake-out, where the locals at first blame Elsa before they realize she's not the problem. Of course, the viewers know Elsa is no villain (unless they've been living under a rock for the past year and don't know a girl between the ages of four and eighteen), but the Storybrookers wouldn't (a good reason for them to make it clear this is set before the release of Frozen).

 

I still think Hook was originally from Arendelle.

But it sounds like his king was evil, and while Elsa's father was an idiot parent, I don't think he's supposed to have been the kind of king who'd have sent his people to get a poison good for genocide and tell them it was a healing herb. One of my mental fanfics, though, is that he's from the same kingdom as Hans, and Hans came to the coronation on the Jewel of the Realm, so Hook would know something about who Elsa is and would know to trust her, which might put him in opposition to the rest of the town until they figure out she's not the real villain. That would explain all the stuff about Hook and Elsa running around together if he's trying to protect her or hide her.

 

I literally said that upthread, except I think Regina's going to be gunning for Marian.

Though it is Regina's style to put the blame in the wrong place. Cora killed Daniel, but Regina devoted her life to destroying Snow for being the one to tell Cora about Daniel. So I could totally see Regina dealing with this situation by trying to destroy Emma for being the one to bring Marian back. She can't really go after Marian and still expect to get Robin -- if something happens to Marian, Regina would be the prime suspect -- so if Regina is just feeling like she's lost her chance of pixie-dust ordained happiness and she can never love again or be loved, then it would be very much like her to take her wrath out on Emma, and there's probably a lot of other bottled-up stuff there, as well, since to Regina it's Emma's fault that the curse broke and Emma's fault that Regina doesn't have Henry entirely to herself, plus some envy that Emma naturally has all kinds of magic power without having to work for it the way Regina did. That's a whole lot of ugly that could come pouring out directed at Emma.

 

On the spoilers about the Hook and Rumple scene, did we know for sure that the blackmail was specifically about the dagger? And I don't think there's enough in what's been reported to indicate that this is the blackmail. It's possible that it does connect back to Elsa if Hook knows or figures out that Rumple had something to do with Elsa being urned. Though I'm not sure I can see him approaching Rumple about it. He'd be more likely to just tell people what he knows about Rumple. There would be no upside to Hook for keeping that secret.

[Souris]

Remember when I said a day or two ago that the writers would inevitably have Hook doing something that made no damn sense at some point? Yeah. Because obviously he would know better than to hella piss off Rumple.

 

If Hook already has his hand back, that's not what the blackmail is over. He wants Rumple to do something or not do something. I could see him wanting Rumple to stay away from Henry, because given his history with Bae and Rumple, plus feeling protective of Henry, Hook wouldn't trust Rumple with Henry. Of course, that's not really his place and it would piss off Henry and Emma (probably), but he'd be doing something stupid for the "right" reason.

 

It could also be over some plot point we don't know about yet, perhaps involving Elsa.

 

We know from RC that there will be some exchanging of the dagger. So probably Hook will end up telling Belle about the fake dagger, but Rumple will have switched them, so everybody will think Hook lied or let his hatred of Rumple get the better of him. Then Rumple will switch them back.

 

I do not approve of shiny pants.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Souris

[NotBothered]

If Hook already has his hand back, that's not what the blackmail is over.

Other reports from last night say that the glove was on during filming.  So either the shots we have were not while the camera was rolling, or he gets his hand back during this Rumple interaction.

 

The pictures do show his usual complement of rings on his right hand and none of the left, so both the return of the glove and/or very recently returned hand could make sense. 

[dassala]

Just to toss in some of the mythology - apologies if this has already come up...

 

In The Snow Queen story, the Queen manipulates a "boy" to forget about his beloved and behave out of character. Is it possible that Hook blackmailing Rumple is some of this?

[Amerilla]

I do not approve of shiny pants.

 

Word, Souris. Word.

 

I think the costuming people may have been going for the biker look as a modern-day pirate equivalent, but it looks from the photos from last night more like a hipster-biker-wannabe, and I doubt it's going to do his increasingly bland character any favors.

[Rumsy4]

Though it is Regina's style to put the blame in the wrong place. Cora killed Daniel, but Regina devoted her life to destroying Snow for being the one to tell Cora about Daniel. So I could totally see Regina dealing with this situation by trying to destroy Emma for being the one to bring Marian back. She can't really go after Marian and still expect to get Robin -- if something happens to Marian, Regina would be the prime suspect -- so if Regina is just feeling like she's lost her chance of pixie-dust ordained happiness and she can never love again or be loved, then it would be very much like her to take her wrath out on Emma, and there's probably a lot of other bottled-up stuff there, as well, since to Regina it's Emma's fault that the curse broke and Emma's fault that Regina doesn't have Henry entirely to herself, plus some envy that Emma naturally has all kinds of magic power without having to work for it the way Regina did. That's a whole lot of ugly that could come pouring out directed at Emma.

Some of the interviews suggest that while Regina and Emma will go back to bickering, Regina recognizes that Emma didn't do it on purpose. And Emma is apprently fighting for Regina to stay good. That's the kind of thing the writers would call great improvement on Regina's part.

On the other hand, we were shown the scene with Regina and Sydney (dream or no), plus Marian calling Regina a monster publicly. That would make Marian Regina's most-hated person. She's not above trying to undermine Marian in some way, even if not actively trying to murder her.

[sharky]

Just to toss in some of the mythology - apologies if this has already come up...

 

In The Snow Queen story, the Queen manipulates a "boy" to forget about his beloved and behave out of character. Is it possible that Hook blackmailing Rumple is some of this?

I'm wondering that too actually and I wonder if that somehow ties into Regina and her request of Sidney that we've seen already. Perhaps he brought the Snow Queen in to put a curse on Hook's heart as Regina asked. It would explain some of the things we've seen like the wardrobe change and the weird personality shift. And it could again tie back into our theory that Emma is going to have to step up and really declare her love for Hook with a true love's kiss to break the spell.

 

Also, I am not ashamed to say I approve of the shiny pants.

[Souris]

Canadagraphs:

#OnceUponATime also filmed a scene with Georgina Haig coming out of Mr. Gold's with an item

 

I wonder what that item is? Something she bought/was given or stole? I'm not sure what time of day it was filmed, though the tweet was posted late. Could it possibly be the dagger? Real or fake? Does it end up in Hook's bag that he is carrying later?

[dassala]

I'm wondering that too actually and I wonder if that somehow ties into Regina and her request of Sidney that we've seen already. Perhaps he brought the Snow Queen in to put a curse on Hook's heart as Regina asked. It would explain some of the things we've seen like the wardrobe change and the weird personality shift. And it could again tie back into our theory that Emma is going to have to step up and really declare her love for Hook with a true love's kiss to break the spell.

 

Also, I am not ashamed to say I approve of the shiny pants.

 

Maybe Eddy and Adam were listening when we had crackpot theories about Hook being controlled by Zelena? You know we inspire them, afterall.

 

I'm not too concerned about Shiny Pants. More distracted by the fact that he's little in the middle but he's got much back. Dat ass.

[Jean]

 

But it sounds like his king was evil, and while Elsa's father was an idiot parent, I don't think he's supposed to have been the kind of king who'd have sent his people to get a poison good for genocide and tell them it was a healing herb.

 

I could be remembering wrong but didn't the king want the herb to fight a war or something? Was it ogres? In which case I don't think it's black and white. Young Hook might've been just too idealistic. Or they just don't care about continuity.  Man it's hard to speculate when these writers aren't know for sticking to their story or have any hard fast rules.

 

 

so Hook would know something about who Elsa is and would know to trust her, which might put him in opposition to the rest of the town until they figure out she's not the real villain. That would explain all the stuff about Hook and Elsa running around together if he's trying to protect her or hide her.

At this point her and Emma are already friends no? Didn't JMo say something like she was excited as she was reading the scripts (which we know they have up to ep. 4 or at least Robert did) that Emma's getting a friend and bonding over their misery? I think that scene where Hook and Emma runs after Elsa into a warehouse in the premiere is when they figure out that Elsa isn't evil. I do think that's when Hook could vouch for Elsa and then the 2 E's get to talking for 2 minutes before exchanging friendship bracelets.

 

 

And Emma is apprently fighting for Regina to stay good.

You could tell JMo thinks this is total bs. She keeps saying Emma is doing it for Henry's sake and wanting to keep Storybrook and its people safe but I doubt it'll play this way onscreen. That's been our fanwank for Snow's idiocy! That's why I'm hoping Emma spends all of her time chasing after Elsa and the Snow Queen and that plot is a 1 minute scene in one episode and then buried forever.

 

I'm not digging Hook's outfit either. Couldn't they just have given him a different pirate outfit? Like a different shirt or vest? Kind of like what they do with Emma's wardrobe. It's really the same outfit, they just change the t-shirt and jacket color and call it a day. As it is, I don't think he looks any different from Will.

[pezgirl7]

Finally some clearer pics of Hook's new outfit:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/katmtan/sets/72157646611731536/

 

I don't mind the shiny jeans too much. And I like that he still has his rings, necklace and eyeliner, and is still wearing a vest. Looks like they really did just modernize his pirate outfit.

 

I wonder if the flowers Rumple gives him are just for Hook's date with Emma, or if they are drugged somehow, or aren't even for Emma. Like maybe if someone smells them, they fall under a spell.

Edited August 20, 2014 by pezgirl7

[pezgirl7]

And y'all can tease Colin for being lanky all you want, but I'll take a tall skinny guy over a huge muscled-up dude any day. ;-)

 

Amen sister! :)

 

ETA: sorry, I don't know why that made a new post instead of being part of my post before it. :/

 

Here's a video of Hook and Rumple filming the car scene!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4lUYGZV9U#t=87

 

Ahh, I have no idea what is going on, but Hook doesn't look too happy. I kind of like my earlier theory that the flowers have some kind of magic, but it appears that Hook does not accept them.

Edited August 20, 2014 by pezgirl7

[Rumsy4]

I'm starting to come around to Hook's new outfit. It's very similar to his pirate outfit actually, except he is now wearing a modern jacket instead of that flapping monstrosity. (I love his S2 vests--the red vest, and the one with buttons on the side that he used to wear without the coat). I'm just glad he's not going to be wearing that long swishing coat anymore! haha

 

  

[Kaw912]

I'm going to reserve judgement on both the Rumple/Hook scene and whether or not the characters are acting out of character until I see the full episode. Everything is being taken out of context, we don't really know what is going to happen.

I'm also going to reserve judgement of Hook's new outfit until I see it on film. All we've seen so far is low quality photos, and those pants may appear differently on film. For all we know, we're seeing Hook in some kind of "disguise," like he's going undercover. This actually makes me wonder if Hook and Rumple might be collaborating to protect Storybrooke from the new big bad, presumably the Snow Queen. I'm also starting to wonder if the Knave/Will Scarlett might be working as the Snow Queen's minion. I'm not sure the purpose of the new outfit is for a date with Emma. I don't see Hook hanging out with Rumple and punching out the Knave as he's on his way to a date - both events would probably be mood killers.

I do have to add that in my opinion if there's a character who is increasingly bland on this show, it's Rumple. He was awesome in Seasons 1 and 2, but I found him as insufferable and annoying as Jack Shepherd in Season 3. I love Bobby, but I agree with those who suspect he wants out. He doesn't seem nearly as committed to this role as he once did.

[Rumsy4]

I do have to add that in my opinion if there's a character who is increasingly bland on this show, it's Rumple. He was awesome in Seasons 1 and 2, but I found him as insufferable and annoying as Jack Shepherd in Season 3. I love Bobby, but I agree with those who suspect he wants out. He doesn't seem nearly as committed to this role as he once did.

 

I think the problem was isolating him  from pretty much all the main cast in S3. They predominantly had him interacting with the villains, and it got stale after a while. The other thing bringing Rumple/Gold down is his relationship with Belle, IMO. With Belle finding out about the dagger soon, that may change. 

[Souris]

The pants look better in the higher-res pics. Less shiny.

 

I'm guessing the flowers are for Belle. Or possibly Nealfire's grave, though doubtful Rumple would visit it at night. Maybe Rumple offers them to Hook to take to Emma, and Hook's all "Hell, no, I'm not taking anything from you."

 

I think all the stuff on the video outside the car is just Colin/Robert, because there are crew members walking around in the shot.

 

I can't see Will working with the Snow Queen, unless: 1) she's not actually evil or 2) something with him has drastically changed since Wonderland.

[retrograde]

Looks like they really did just modernize his pirate outfit.

Yes, though I think it's missing the... flamboyance of his usual attire. Perhaps that's to be expected when he's just figuring out this world's fashions, but this is definitely more staid than his standard look. Still, it looks fine to me -- glad they kept the vest and accessories, and it's nice to see some less ridiculous shoes. 

[RadioGirl27]

I'm going to reserve judgement on both the Rumple/Hook scene and whether or not the characters are acting out of character until I see the full episode. Everything is being taken out of context, we don't really know what is going to happen.

But that's the funny thing about spoilers, that they are out of context ;-)

Of course we can't judge until we see it, it's just that any theory I can came up with after seeing those pics is not  really very appealing. But, it has a bright side, it seems that both Hook and Rumple have something to do apart from their women.

 

#OnceUponATime also filmed a scene with Georgina Haig coming out of Mr. Gold's with an item

Maybe that item is Hook's hand and that is the reason why he seems to have it later. They seem to be friends, so maybe it's her who recovers it.

 

I'm starting to come around to Hook's new outfit. It's very similar to his pirate outfit actually, except he is now wearing a modern jacket instead of that flapping monstrosity. (I love his S2 vests--the red vest, and the one with buttons on the side that he used to wear without the coat). I'm just glad he's not going to be wearing that long swishing coat anymore! haha

Me too! I guess the jeans would appear less shiny on camera. At least, I hope so.

Edited August 20, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[NotBothered]

Maybe that item is Hook's hand and that is the reason why he seems to have it later. They seem to be friends, so maybe it's her who recovers it.

I am so confused about what is going on with the hand.  In that scene with Hook and Rumple it doesn't appear as though he has a glove on, but he is still keeping the hand and arm stiff.

 

I also have to say...it doesn't really look like Hook is doing much blackmailing there.  I think the first bit is a blooper, and the second bit is them talking through the scene, but in the third bit Rumple doesn't seem very worried (not that he would be...) and Hook looks frustrated, but not like he's trying to menace anyone.  I pretty much have no idea where they're going.

 

Retrograde...amen about the shoes.  My least favorite thing about the old outfit was the damn clown shoes.  They made the coat seem even flappier than it was.

Edited August 20, 2014 by NotBothered

[retrograde]

I am so confused about what is going on with the hand.  In that scene with Hook and Rumple it doesn't appear as though he has a glove on, but he is still keeping the hand and arm stiff.

Could be a spell to make it look real even though it isn't? One thing about the new jacket is that it doesn't look like it could accommodate the whole hook contraption, so either a) he really does have the hand back, b) this costume change isn't permanent, c) he's only going to wear the fake hand from now on.

 

I also have to say...it doesn't really look like Hook is doing much blackmailing there.  I think the first bit is a blooper, and the second bit is them talking through the scene, but in the third bit Rumple doesn't seem very worried (not that he would be...) and Hook looks frustrated, but not like he's trying to menace anyone.  I pretty much have no idea where they're going.

Is the first one a blooper? I assumed it was just a wide shot of him getting in and out of the car, so they didn't need the full dialogue. "Don't make me do something you'll regret," is a pretty menacing thing to say.

[pezgirl7]

Here's another picture of Hook:

http://allimac16.tumblr.com/image/95292409040

 

I'm really liking the jacket!

 

Here's a little info about filming today from someone at the set:

http://hookier.tumblr.com/post/95293337044

 

At first I thought Hook was the one blackmailing Rumple, but after watching the video, and even if they are just practice run-throughs, I don't think he is the blackmailer. I am mostly just excited to have those two in a scene together!

[KingOfHearts]

Phew, so many spoilers! Finally read through the last couple of pages.

 

If Hook is blackmailing Rumple (I hope he isn't), I'm going to be unspeakably mad. Of all the redeemed characters on the show, I wish they'd leave at least one redeemed. Like someone else said upthread, Rumple and Regina should really be the only ones backsliding for now. I remember in 3B when Hook got blasted for the kiss curse and the message by bird, which I thought was really stupid. All the romantic angst should be with Outlaw Queen and Rumpbelle, not Captain Swan. But that's just my opinion. Again, I'm really hoping Hook blackmailing isn't the case.

 

I really like the idea that Elsa and Hook knew each other. Arendelle was a major port for ship trade, so Hook would fit right in. 

 

With all these random things going on in the spoilers, my mind is going everywhere. We may get some interesting character dynamics this season, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm probably being too optimistic, but at this point in the show's run, they really have to start setting up what they plan to do in the later seasons as far as character development and arcs go.

 

Does anyone else wonder if this will be better or worse than 3B?

Edited August 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

Ugh, the more I see of Hook's new outfit, the more I don't like it. He looks like some 20-year-old emo biker wannabe (maybe that's the point?).

 

Giving him the normal eyeliner on top of all the leather is too much, imo.

 

but at this point in the show's run, they really have to start setting up what they plan to do in the later seasons as far as character development and arcs go.

The show's whole problem has been that after S1, they haven't bothered to make a plan for either (unless your name is Regina). So...I hope they do this, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited August 20, 2014 by stealinghome

[Shanna Marie]

I'll try not to judge the new outfit until we've really seen it in action in good light, but I'm mostly meh on it now because it just seems so obvious and stereotypical -- he's a bad boy, so throw on some dark leather. If the actual costume looks almost exactly like most of the fan manips on tumblr, then you're doing it wrong as a costume designer because you've taken the most obvious route. They really need to lose the eyeliner with the modern costume because it makes him look like a wannabe rock star rather than like a pirate.

 

While he looks skinnier without all the bulk of that big coat, I think he also looks a lot taller with the new jacket, probably because you can see his legs instead of his whole body being swallowed up.

[KingOfHearts]

I honestly don't like the look... it's really bland. Besides the absence of the mammoth-sized coat, he really doesn't look different or "modernized" enough. He still has all the chest and the trinket, same colors, same eyeliner, etc. It's disappointing that everyone wanted to see him in different clothes, then they're really not all that dissimilar to his normal wear. Even if it was just temporary for a date, it would have been nice to see something a little more drastic to impress Emma.

 

It gets a thumbs down from me. Over-hyped.

Edited August 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[patchwork]

Blackmailing Rumple is less stupid if Hook has the real dagger. While it's not something the Charmings would approve of I doubt Hook would have any qualms about making sure the Dark One behaves himself. 

 

I haven't been keeping up with spoilers has it been confirmed that Elizabeth Mitchell is the Snow Queen? 

[regularlyleaded]

Here are two pictures that are a closer look at Jennifer's outfit that looked to be see through-ish. It's not really see-through. It's a light gray and white blouse. The main portion seems to be gray and not see-through.

Pic 1, Pic 2

[NotBothered]

Emma hasn't updated the registration on her car? The NYC parking authority must be more laid back than I thought...

Edited August 20, 2014 by NotBothered

[retrograde]

I haven't been keeping up with spoilers has it been confirmed that Elizabeth Mitchell is the Snow Queen?

It hasn't and I doubt it will be officially before it airs, but... she's wearing a snowflake necklace; I'd say it's a very safe bet.

[InsertWordHere]

 

I don't see Hook hanging out with Rumple and punching out the Knave as he's on his way to a date - both events would probably be mood killers.

If this is the same night as the date, I imagine it takes place after. You can see through the window that the chairs are all up in the Fish and Chips shop. The streets are empty and Gold and Hook seem to be having a clandestine meeting. According to one report, the Knave was also seen trying to break into the library. My guess is it's late at night. I can't imagine there are many restaurants in Storybrooke that stay open late, assuming the date includes a restaurant.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Blackmailing Rumple is less stupid if Hook has the real dagger. While it's not something the Charmings would approve of I doubt Hook would have any qualms about making sure the Dark One behaves himself.

The last person to manipulate Rumple while possessing the Dagger got garden-gnome'd and killed. It was for vengeance of killing his son of course, but the whole dagger control was probably a major part of it too. ("You're going to pay for everything you did to me.") Whether Hook has the dagger or not for the blackmail, Rumple is going to make sure he pays.

Edited August 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

It hasn't and I doubt it will be officially before it airs, but... she's wearing a snowflake necklace; I'd say it's a very safe bet.

Yeah, she is either the Snow Queen or her character has a funny sense of fashion :-)

And, if she is the Snow Queen, who are going to be Gerda and Kai? Probably Emma and Hook, but I wouldn't rule out Regina as Kai and Robin as Gerda.

[stealinghome]

Blackmailing Rumple is less stupid if Hook has the real dagger. While it's not something the Charmings would approve of I doubt Hook would have any qualms about making sure the Dark One behaves himself.

But if Hook has the dagger, why the heck would he need to blackmail Rumpel in the first place? He could just make Rumpel do whatever he wanted.

 

Anyone blackmailing Rumpel only makes sense, imo, if they know about his dagger lie but aren't themself in possession of the dagger. (Assuming that the blackmail relates to the dagger lie and not something entirely different.)

Edited August 20, 2014 by stealinghome

[retrograde]

Yeah, she is either the Snow Queen or her character has a funny sense of fashion :-)

Maybe she's just a real soccer mum, trying to be supportive if her daughter's interest in ice.

[Jean]

And, if she is the Snow Queen, who are going to be Gerda and Kai? Probably Emma and Hook, but I wouldn't rule out Regina as Kai and Robin as Gerda.

 

There might not be one. My crazy spec is Charming and Will back in their shephard days or whatever. Or maybe EM is the Snow Queen now and "Kai" in the past.

[dassala]

Yeah, she is either the Snow Queen or her character has a funny sense of fashion :-)

And, if she is the Snow Queen, who are going to be Gerda and Kai? Probably Emma and Hook, but I wouldn't rule out Regina as Kai and Robin as Gerda.

 

If Emma and Hook are the focus of all the Snow Queen lore, why the heck are we casting all of Frozen? We could have just had the Snow Queen and that was that. Now we've got Elsa, Anna, Kristoff, Hans, and Pabbie. They have to fit in there someplace. I'm perplexed at how they'll meld the main cast with the Frozen cast.

 

I'm starting to wonder if the return of the Hook Hand is permanent. I'm starting to suspect that the clothes and the hand are pretty temporary. What a bummer for Hook if they are.

[NotBothered]

If Emma and Hook are the focus of all the Snow Queen lore, why the heck are we casting all of Frozen?

I'm really struggling to figure out how this all fits together.  I see plenty of plot potential for Frozen, and I seen plenty of plot potential for the Snow Queen...but I don't see how it all fits together.

 

It seems pretty clear that Anna and Kristoff are not in Storybrooke as I assume we would have seen them at an outdoor shoot by now if they were.  So are we getting one plot where Elsa has to figure out where they are/how to get back to them and one plot where someone (likely Hook?) gets his heart frozen?  And then Elsa has to help Emma unfreeze him all while either being tempted by/fighting off the real Snow Queen?  And also the Knave is there?  All while we're also dealing with a Snowing baby, Rumple and Belle issues, and the Regina/Robin/Marian mess?  I am overwhelmed.

 

 

I'm starting to wonder if the return of the Hook Hand is permanent. I'm starting to suspect that the clothes and the hand are pretty temporary. What a bummer for Hook if they are.

I hope the clothes aren't temporary.  Not because I'm sold on the new costume, but just because I think that character needs a little more variety.  Now that he's in modern clothes hopefully he dosen't have to wear the same thing everyday. 

 

It looks right like the costume change is either potentially a symptom of a frozen heart, or he changes for the date and gets zapped either on his way there or on his way home afterwards.   I just would be shocked if they do this without freezing someone's heart, and the most likely candidate is Hook.  Henry seems like it would just be a repeat of Panry, Snowing is plot sidelined, and Regina seems off on an entirely different show right now.

[Sabs]

Could Anna and Kristoff be from the past?  Only in flashbacks? 

[KingOfHearts]

 

Could Anna and Kristoff be from the past?  Only in flashbacks?

That's what I thought, but Disney wouldn't allow Once to kill them off. My theory is they're urned somewhere, and Elsa has to find them.

[Sabs]

That's what I thought, but Disney wouldn't allow Once to kill them off. My theory is they're urned somewhere, and Elsa has to find them.

But if they lived a long productive natural lifespan, it wouldn't be killing them off, would it?  Especially if their death isn't mentioned, just assumed, since it was (whatever the theoretical time period is) years ago.

[FurryFury]

They are in too many episodes to be flashback-only characters. Which is too bad, I'd definitely prefer if we got only Elsa, she was the only worthwhile character of Frozen.

[queenbee]

some set pictures for a Rumple and Belle scene in Storybrooke:

 

https://twitter.com/richardzussman/status/502194361275518977

 

https://twitter.com/opustwelve/status/502195623438069761

 

https://twitter.com/tofuvampire/status/502195383892987904

 

Most shocking revelation? Belle is wearing flats lol. 

[FurryFury]

And, if she is the Snow Queen, who are going to be Gerda and Kai? Probably Emma and Hook, but I wouldn't rule out Regina as Kai and Robin as Gerda.

 

I won't rule out Henry and the new girl. However, I'd prefer someone completely unexpected and not a romantic pairing, Gerda and Kai had a kind of brother/sister relationship, IIRC.

Anna and Kristof are probable, too. Maybe even Elsa and Anna, once again.

 

Most shocking revelation? Belle is wearing flats lol.

 

That's the most surprising spoiler I've seen yet.

Edited August 20, 2014 by FurryFury

[Jean]

To be fair we're only getting a day or 2 of outside shoots per episode so far, which probably translates to 10 minutes of an episode. Who knows what's going on for the studio stuff. And It's only episode 4.

 

 

So are we getting one plot where Elsa has to figure out where they are/how to get back to them and one plot where someone (likely Hook?) gets his heart frozen?  And then Elsa has to help Emma unfreeze him all while either being tempted by/fighting off the real Snow Queen?  And also the Knave is there?  All while we're also dealing with a Snowing baby, Rumple and Belle issues, and the Regina/Robin/Marian mess?

You know I don't mind this. I do hope they have 2 or 3 wholly different plots/stories going on.  It's clear (for me anyway) from 2B, 3A, 3B that the entire group dealing with one story doesn't really work. One person (usually Woegina) takes the spotlight and bulk of the story while the rest are standing around playing extras basically. Maybe this way everyone can have a story or mini story. I'm guessing the Frozen/Snow Queen/Knave is all one story, Rumbelle will crossover into Frozen but have their own stuff with the dagger business, and the Marian stuff is their 3rd story.  Snow and Charming can support all 3 and have their own small moments just cause Ginny seems to be taking it easy. But we'll see if it's all really separate or there will be some "big" twist that ties all of it together. A&E just loves that so-called twist.

 

Then 4B they can rotate the group for the big story and the smaller stories. It's basically the structure of a soap. They have big and little stories going on that rotate in and out constantly. Also since an entire half season seems to be a week long at the most, I can ignore the well why aren't so and so involved or worried about whatever. This might take care of the dragging out a villain for half a season while the crew looks stupid problem. Little mini breaks while other stories are focused on will help condense the time and play they get.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jean

[KingOfHearts]

 

Then 4B they can rotate the group for the big story and the smaller stories. It's basically the structure of a soap. They have big and little stories going on that rotate in and out constantly. Also since an entire half season seems to be a week long at the most, I can ignore the well why aren't so and so involved or worried about whatever.

 

Smaller stories are a good idea, but it isn't exactly a strong point with the writing on this show. S2 had this bad - several storylines were going on at once, and while only a select few got the spotlight, all the others got sidelined. Some of these were important, like Emma's relationship with her parents. This happened in 3B as well when more time was devoted to Zelena strutting around than Emma's home arc and the Missing Year. Some of the better story writing was in S1 and 3A, when the plots were more centralized. Again, multiple small storylines at once is a great idea, but the writers don't do well with it.

 

This is why I'm worried about S4... with all the Frozen, Snow Queen, and Knave stuff taking the forefront, the main cast is probably going to be on the back burner. (Unless it involves apple turnovers and Marian.)

Edited August 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts