Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[oliverwendell]

I think Emma poofs onto the Jolly Roger to stop Hook from killing Rumple at the last minute. No way does Rumple defeat him, and no way does Hook resist the darkness this early, so something/somebody else has to stop him.

 

I think Hook is fully intent on mayhem right up through 5x11, when he somehow summons all the Dark Ones to Storybrooke as part of his executing the spell to destroy light magic. If he does manage to resist the darkness, I think it's going to happen right at the end of 5x11 and right before he goes to the Underworld.  

[kili]

Wait, did the hat break? I thought it just kind of backfired and then Mickey got dark goo'd.

 

I'm pretty sure it's broken. But, even if it isn't, how can it hope to hold Excalibur/Grail if it couldn't hold DO goo? I would think the Grail is more magical than the goo.

 

If he does manage to resist the darkness, I think it's going to happen right at the end of 5x11 and right before he goes to the Underworld.

 

If he doesn't manage to resist the darkness before he dies, I'm going to have a hard time buying half the town is willing to go to the Underworld to save him. Even if it wasn't his idea to become the Dark One, if he's that horrible, why does anybody want him back?

 

I'm really hoping they don't make Emma the new Belle - a woman who oves her man no matter how despicable he has proven to be. Hook has been bad in the past, but he's worked to be better. I can see Emma loving a man who is on the path to redemption.  If he can fall off the redemption turnip truck at any moment and become a threat to everybody, that is a character I want to stay dead and a character I think that doesn't need to be in a relationship with any character I like.

 

Especially if he's all good one moment and the minute he learns he is the Dark One, he goes Super Bad. How can one possibly argue that the Dark One Made Him Do It, when clearly the Dark One had no influence over him at all.

[chrisvee]

Simplest explanation to me is that Dark Hook has gone all Angelus on Dark Emma. He comes up with a plan with Nimue to curse all of Emma's loved ones (the mark) which will turn them dark (do to them what Emma did to him).

Dark Emma then has to do a Buffy and take him out permanently. Her guilt is such that she then commits to making her original mistake right by heading to the UW to get Hook a second chance at life.

In Camelot there must be some major reversal because Emma has all sword reforming components and can control Dark Hook with the sword fragment. I can see why she brought them home via the curse -- because she wanted to prevent Hook from going all dark and she wanted time to fix her mistake with him without everyone knowing that Hook was a DO. But why is the sword in the stone? That just reduces Emma's power over Dark Hook. Unless she did it to prevent her family from trying to take it from her to control or kill Dark Hook in Camelot. Or maybe she could only get Dark Hook to release th darkness from his soul if he wasn't aware of it.

[kili]

Dark Emma then has to do a Buffy and take him out permanently. Her guilt is such that she then commits to making her original mistake right by heading to the UW to get Hook a second chance at life.

 

Didn't Angel become Angelus because he had no soul? At that point, he wasn't making a choice.

 

Hook has demonstrated for the last 10 episodes in Storybrooke that he can be a perfectly pleasant chap despite having the Dark One inside him. If the only difference between the guy who didn't want to his girlfriend to kill Zelena because that isn't the right thing to do and the guy that wants to harm her entire family is the recovering of his memories, then he is making the choice to be a super villian.

 

Somebody like that doesn't warrant people taking on the extreme risk of entering the Underworld to save him. Unless he doesn't become evil or does make an extreme sacrifice to save everybody, he should stay in hell (and have vultures pecking at his liver 24/7).  

 

I love the character of Hook and I love Captain Swan, but the writer's love of twists have shown us that him being the Dark One does not prevent if from being a stand-up guy. So, if he really is the kind of character who can choose to turn on a dime and chose to be the evilest evil that ever evil, then he should never be trusted by these characters again. Why would they?

[RadioGirl27]

Well, they trust Regina and Rumple, so why not him?

It would be tragic if the writers undid all of Hook's redemption because of their love for (bad) twists. But as I have say before, I don't trust them.

Edited November 19, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[regularlyleaded]

Dark Emma then has to do a Buffy and take him out permanently. Her guilt is such that she then commits to making her original mistake right by heading to the UW to get Hook a second chance at life.

I'm not following your line of thought here. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that you consider Emma's "original mistake" to be that she didn't let Hook die in Camelot (no?). As such, your speculating that as a result of her actions, Hook goes on an evil rampage Angelus style, and because Emma has to fix the mistake that she made by not letting Hook die to begin with, she is the one that has to put him down. So Emma pays for her transgressions by having to be the one to kill Hook herself. Emma does "the right thing", kills Hook, and Hook is now dead as he should've been in Camelot, and all is right in the world.

But then you're saying that to fix her original mistake of not letting Hook die (which she's already paid for by killing Hook), Emma is going to bring Hook back from the dead, which breaks a big standing rule about “you can't bring the dead back to life”, all to fix the mistake that she should have let him die to begin with.

Whuh? How does Emma bringing Hook back from the dead fix her mistake of not letting him die? That...doesn't make sense to me.

Edited November 19, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[chrisvee]

Emma's original mistake was keeping him from dying by turning him into the Dark One -- especially after he begged her not to do it since he knew he wouldn't have the strength to resist the dark. If he subsequently commits evil acts, dies, and then goes to a villain's fate in the Underworld (rather than where he would have ended up if he died a hero's death in Camelot) that guilt will weigh on Emma and she will bear some responsibility.

Edited November 19, 2015 by chrisvee

[regularlyleaded]

Hook even as a Dark One has free will because no one is controlling him with the sword and he's not a slave to the darkness. Yes, Emma made him a Dark One, but by saving his life and making him a Dark One she's already in a way given him a second chance at life because the darkness can be fought and resisted. Hook's fought darkness before, and Emma herself knows that the darkness can be resisted. Even Rumpel has resisted the darkness. Is it difficult to fight the darkness? Yes. Impossible? No. But because Hook is weak willed and succumbed to the darkness and had to be ultimately put down then he deserves a second chance at living? I don't think so. Even a second second chance at life doesn't guarantee that Hook will have a good death in the future. If he's brought back to life and dies again, but it wasn't a "good death", should Emma bring him back to life a third, fourth, fifth, time until he gets the "good death"? Nonsense.

 

Emma prevented Hook from dying. That's arguable whether it was a mistake or not, but either way, she didn't prevent him from having a "good death" ever. If Hook chooses to go all evil pants that's his choice. I think it's arguable whether Emma should have let him die or not, but either way, if he goes uber evil and she kills him, then Emma's fixed her "mistake".  Emma then breaking the rule of that dead can't be brought back to life doesn't fix anything and is arguably another mistake.

Edited November 19, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[kitticup]

In Camelot there must be some major reversal because Emma has all sword reforming components and can control Dark Hook with the sword fragment. I can see why she brought them home via the curse -- because she wanted to prevent Hook from going all dark and she wanted time to fix her mistake with him without everyone knowing that Hook was a DO. But why is the sword in the stone? That just reduces Emma's power over Dark Hook. Unless she did it to prevent her family from trying to take it from her to control or kill Dark Hook in Camelot. Or maybe she could only get Dark Hook to release th darkness from his soul if he wasn't aware of it.

I think Merlin put the sword in the stone because he was afraid the Dark Ones would use it to cut away the lightness.

[kili]

Emma prevented Hook from dying. That's arguable whether it was a mistake or not, but either way, she didn't prevent him from having a "good death" ever. If Hook chooses to go all evil pants that's his choice.

His choice was to die. She took away his agency and put him in a position he knew he could not handle. While he ultimately owns his behaviour, I should hope that she feels guilty for drugging him with evil when she knew he was an addict. This is a completely messed up situation.

 

While I can see why she might feel bad enough to want to revive him after putting him down (or Regina puts him down), I would hope somebody would talk some sense into her. How do they know that the good Hook will come back and not the super evil Hook?

 

I hope that Hook does something redemptive before he dies because otherwise, I'm going to have to hope he stays dead. I really want to enjoy the Underworld arc and cheer for its success. The way things are turning out, it looks like a repeat of 4B where I'm thinking WTF are these people thinking? This is stupid. Why are you trying to give the super villain a happy ending they don't deserve at the expense and risk of everybody else? And if they do revive him, I'm going to stick the relationship in the same dysfunctional bin as I have Rumple and Belle in.

 

This is the show that ships a guy who constantly puts his wife to sleep or steals her memories so he can do evil (and who killed his first wife) and a village slaughtering rapist who killed the wife of her boyfriend, so I suspect A&E will think it is so romantic to send Emma to the Underworld for an unrepentant villain who tried to kill her family to resurrect him after he deservedly got put down. Argh!

[Rumsy4]

 

I suspect A&E will think it is so romantic to send Emma to the Underworld for an unrepentant villain who tried to kill her family to resurrect him after he deservedly got put down. Argh!

 

This seems rather jumping the gun to me. And all this talking of "putting him down" is giving me a headache. He's not a dog. I'm confident it will be his choice to die and take the Darkness with him to the UW. No matter how illogical the writing in the Show can be, there is no indication Hook will make a sudden volte-face and transform into an unrepentant villain who goes on a rampage in Storybrooke. Let's wait and see how it plays out. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

Hook doesn't have time to go on a rampage. There's only one episode before the finale and half of the finale is taken up by Evil Queen/Hook adventures. Plus, we know that he doesn't even manage to kill non-magical Rumpelstiltskin, his greatest enemy. Hook is not going to be the evilest evil that ever eviled. He'll be angry. He and Emma will fight. Someone will sacrifice and he'll be taken away.  

[Mathius]

Right, and his only potential victim in Camelot is Merlin and at this point?  He kinda has it coming.

[InsertWordHere]

Do we know that the Hook/ Evil Queen flashbacks will take up that much of the episode? Isn't there also a flashback with his father? This might be a multi-character flashback episode. Do we think episode 10 is the last of the Camelot flashbacks? 

[regularlyleaded]

His choice was to die. She took away his agency and put him in a position he knew he could not handle. While he ultimately owns his behaviour, I should hope that she feels guilty for drugging him with evil when she knew he was an addict. This is a completely messed up situation.

This seems rather jumping the gun to me. And all this talking of "putting him down" is giving me a headache. He's not a dog. I'm confident it will be his choice to die and take the Darkness with him to the UW. No matter how illogical up the writing in the Show can be, there is no indication Hook will make a sudden volte-face and transform into an unrepentant villain who goes on a rampage in Storybrooke. Let's wait and see how it plays out.

Agreed. It seems like some have already leaped to the conclusion that Hook fully succumbs to the darkness. And we don't know that he does. The spoilers pics only tells us that he's been Dark Oned not that he's gone full on, point of no return, dark.

Emma (right or wrong or both) put him in a situation that she believes he can fight and win, a situation where Hook is afraid of the possibility that he can't win, but not one where it's a foregone conclusion that he will lose. While the situation is not of his making, Hooks behavior is his own. He's beat back darkness before, it's within his power to do so again. We don't know that Hook doesn't resist the darkness. We don't know that he fails and goes full evil. It's not The Borg he's facing here, resistance isn't futile. Hook doesn't seem to have killed Rumpel, his greatest enemy, because we've seen that Rumpel is still with the group in the 5B spoilers pics, so that does seem to indicate that he doesn't completely succumb to the darkness.

Judging by Dark Swan's plans that seem to completely revolve around getting Hook undarkened, I think she's feeling plenty guilty for lashing Hook to the darkness. She certainly hasn't been enjoying her time as Dark Swan, so she's arguably facing punishment for her "mistake" as it is now. And on the chance that Hook does fully succumb to the darkness (which I don't think he will) and Emma as a result does have to kill him, I'm sure Emma will feel plenty more guilt and plenty more pain. And the thirst that some are feeling for Emma to face ultimate punishment for the perceived mortal sin of “taking away his agency”, well, I hope that will be finally quenched because Emma will have to kill one of the people that she loves most in the world, her true love. If you don't think that won't hurt her, and kill her on the inside, and that it won't be the emotional equivalent of 100 lashes tied to a stake, then I don't know what further punishment she should face for this perceived “crime”. I mean, congratulations, as punishment Emma hurts like you wanted, now let's throw her in a jail cell too! Yay?

 

I'm going to agree to disagree on this topic and move on. I'm never going to see Emma's actions as contemptible and low as others do.

Edited November 19, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[Mathius]

Do we know that the Hook/ Evil Queen flashbacks will take up that much of the episode? Isn't there also a flashback with his father? This might be a multi-character flashback episode. Do we think episode 10 is the last of the Camelot flashbacks? 

 

We know it's the last of the flashbacks.  We have yet to see how the curse was cast that took everyone from Camelot to Storybrooke, and A&E said a heart was crushed to make it happen, hence the title of episode 10: "Broken Heart".

Edited November 19, 2015 by Mathius

[KAOS Agent]

 

Do we know that the Hook/ Evil Queen flashbacks will take up that much of the episode? Isn't there also a flashback with his father? This might be a multi-character flashback episode. Do we think episode 10 is the last of the Camelot flashbacks?

 

The showrunners teased the Hook/Evil Queen team up adventure somewhere, so I don't think it's a multi-character flashback episode like "Going Home" was. It's possible that there's a Baby Killian scene, so we know who his father is and then later flashbacks show Hook with Regina.

[Rumsy4]

Do we know that the Hook/ Evil Queen flashbacks will take up that much of the episode? Isn't there also a flashback with his father? This might be a multi-character flashback episode. Do we think episode 10 is the last of the Camelot flashbacks? 

 

The spoilers for the last two episodes are rather sparse. The only thing we know for sure about "Broken Heart" is the Hook/Rumple sword-fight. It's unclear whether the Evil Queen/Hook team-up is a flashback to EF-past/Camelot or present day or both. I presume we will also find out about who cast the Dark curse this episode. I believe that Daddy Hook/Adam Croasdell scenes are in "Swan song". 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Rumsy4

[kili]

And the thirst that some are feeling for Emma to face ultimate punishment for the perceived mortal sin of “taking away his agency”, well, I hope that will be finally quenched because Emma will have to kill one of the people that she loves most in the world, her true love. If you don't think that won't hurt her, and kill her on the inside, and that it won't be the emotional equivalent of 100 lashes tied to a stake, then I don't know what further punishment she should face for this perceived “crime”. I mean, Congratulations, Emma hurts like you wanted, now let's through her in a jail cell too! Yay?

Where did I say that she should have 1000 lashes? I just think that if he goes dark and hurts people, she owns part of the guilt. 

 

But my primary point is that if he turns dark and dies dark, I want him to stay dead. It's illogical to go to the Underworld to try to rescue him regardless of how guilty or not guilty Emma feels. What logical reason is there to go and try to bring him back when they didn't do that for Cora or Pan? Heck, Ingrid at least died making a sacrifice. I want a good reason why the show is finally having the characters bring somebody back from the dead.

 

There is a lot of speculation that Emma has to rectify her mistake by killing Hook. There is also a lot of speculation that Regina will do it because of the foreshadowing that she is the only one who will do what needs to be done. In either case, he dies a villain. I think the only way he deserves to be rescued is if he dies sacrificing himself.  But that is just my opinion. It would be nice if Hook was allowed to save himself (just like I appreciate it when Emma saves herself). To be granted the agency to fix this and die.

 

The show has a tendency to have people do really dark things and then have everybody ignore it for no reason. It irritates me when Regina gets thanked for controlling Emma or I'm supposed to cheer when the guy whose village she burned gets killed. It irritates me when Rumple gets white hearted and turned a hero and all his crimes get white-washed. I'm going to be no less irritated if the writers have Hook be uber-dark and has to be taken out by either Saviour (Regina or Emma) and then I'm supposed to want them to go on a rescue mission.  It's the same illogical nonsense. There needs to be some consequences and reasonable reactions from at least those that aren't in love with the villain. 

 

I want Emma to be with somebody that is worth loving. Not some guy who keeps flipping between a hero and a villain. She's not Belle. She needs some standards. He doesn't have to be perfect,  but there are some lines you can't cross.

 

Hook doesn't seem to have killed Rumpel, his greatest enemy, because we've seen that Rumpel is still with the group in the 5B spoilers pics, so that does seem to indicate that he doesn't completely succumb to the darkness.

There  has been speculation that Emma or Regina rescues Rumple.

Edited November 19, 2015 by kili

[Rumsy4]

The spoilers for the last two episodes are rather sparse. The only thing we know for sure about "Broken Heart" is the Hook/Rumple sword-fight. It's unclear whether the Evil Queen/Hook team-up is a flashback to EF-past/Camelot or present day or both. I presume we will also find out about who cast the Dark curse this episode. I believe that Daddy Hook/Adam Croasdell scenes are in "Swan song". 

 

Quoting myself to correct something. The Evil Queen/Hook team-up is actually in Swan Song. I guess that means the Camelot flashbacks might be done with in Broken Heart. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

Once they case the curse, there wouldn't be any Camelot flashbacks to have. They are definitely done with that in the next episode. The Hook/Evil Queen flashbacks are what worries me in terms of how Dark One Hook dies, but I just don't see them having Regina kill an Evil!Hook and then everyone rushing off to save him. Why the hell would Rumpel be there to get him? There's more to this story. Plus, it's called "Swan Song" and it's the end of the Dark Swan arc, so I'm confused as to why it sounds so Hook/Regina centric.

[Mathius]

Plus, it's called "Swan Song" and it's the end of the Dark Swan arc, so I'm confused as to why it sounds so Hook/Regina centric.

 

The Dark Swan arc isn't really about Emma, we've been over this before.  It's merely the fourth arc in a row (following 3B, 4A, and 4B) where Emma looks like she's being set up for something important only for someone else to be the big hero in the end...most likely Regina again.  I've already accepted this sad truth, and suggest everyone else do the same. TS, TW.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Mathius

[HoodlumSheep]

That means Broken Heart would cover 3 wks in Camelot. Talk about rushed. I'm beginning to get 4x11/4x22 deja vu with how much stuff they're going to have to cram pack in these last 2 episodes. I am also weary of Regina's involvement. I don't really see how a past Evil Queen/Hook adventure is going to fit into this. And if they mean it was happening in present day, then wouldn't that hint towards hook not really being evil at that point?

Edited November 19, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Watt]

Hahah man some of you reallllly do not like Hook.

I don't understand how you could hate anyone so dashing, but YMMV. The worst evil that ever eviled talk in re: Hook though is amusing as fuck with Rumple and Regina in the same show.

I think there's no way he just randomly does a 180 when he finds out he's the DO. No way. He's playing Zelena. Playing everyone until he can figure out wtf Emma actually did and what two dark ones mean. Anyway, they are my baes, so obvs I'm going to look for the best, but Hook is one of the best characters on this show.

I'm excited for Megara, I hope she has a good peraonality. I get confused by the BTs photos in hellmouth storybrook with meg, reg, and herc.

[FierceAfroChick]

Plus, it's called "Swan Song" and it's the end of the Dark Swan arc, so I'm confused as to why it sounds so Hook/Regina centric.

Because Regina's boyfriend is dull and they need someone more interesting to prop her.

[InsertWordHere]

I don't think it's three weeks. I think things are going to happen pretty quickly in Camelot once Hook gets back from the vault. The "three weeks" have been what we've seen happen in Storybrooke since they've gotten back, even though that seems like too much time in Storybrooke. 

 

Regarding Hook/Regina, I am not convinced that their flashbacks will take up a lot of time. I think "Swan Song" is referring to Hook and his death, which seems like it's giving Emma the short straw, but not if she gets to show a lot of reaction and emotion over said Swan Song and the episode ends with her vowing to get him back.

 

I think there's no way he just randomly does a 180 when he finds out he's the DO. No way. He's playing Zelena. Playing everyone until he can figure out wtf Emma actually did and what two dark ones mean. Anyway, they are my baes, so obvs I'm going to look for the best, but Hook is one of the best characters on this show.

I mostly agree with this, but the thing holding me back is trying to figure out how all the Dark Ones get loose and what Hook is doing confronting people at Regina's. Also, Emma and everyone but Hook are battling against the Dark Ones, which seems to point toward him working with them.

 

Hahah man some of you reallllly do not like Hook.

It's not about not liking Hook, it's about not trusting the writers. I agree it seems out of character for him to go full on dark so quickly, but that won't stop the writers from doing it.

Edited November 19, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[regularlyleaded]

Where did I say that she should have 1000 lashes? I just think that if he goes dark and hurts people, she owns part of the guilt.

I didn't say you did. I was making a comparison that if Emma has to kill Hook, that's the amount of emotional pain and guilt that Emma would feel about it (BTW - I said 100, not 1000). Peace.

 

And I'm sure Emma will feel plenty guilt and pain with whatever happens to Hook. In fact, I'm certain she feels guilty now. Whether we in the audience judge Emma's actions as right or wrong is irrelevant, because, in show, Emma has never come out of anything in this show emotionally unscathed. Emma has a tendency to feel guilty for things that happens to people that she cares about even when it's not really her fault. Sometimes she's even expressed remorse for having mere normal human reactions just because her reactions were possibly hurtful to someone else's feelings. Emma felt guilty for bringing back Marian and accidentally ruining Regina's two week romance. She even feels guilty for shutting out Lily from her life even though Lily basically went around destroying Emma's life. So, I don't know why anyone would think Emma wouldn't feel any guilt or pain about what happens with Hook. Frankly, I'd be shocked if she didn't feel guilty because it's so Emma to just consider everything her fault even if it's not.

[FierceAfroChick]

Frankly, I'd be shocked if she didn't feel guilty because it's so Emma to just consider everything her fault even if it's not.

This makes me sad. My poor baby. After this shit is over, I need the writers to leave Hook and Emma alone for a long ass while.

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder - be civil. There is a lot of deep and dark speculation going on here with the spoilers, and everyone is entitled to their opinions. So share your piece and respect each other. And then please move on.

 

Questions?

 

 

:D

 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I don't really see how a past Evil Queen/Hook adventure is going to fit into this.

It sounds like 4x11, really. It will somehow setup 5B and be semi-relevant to a couple of characters. I'm sure Hook's father is the link between past and present, much like the gauntlet was. (or it could be something else just as contrived we're not aware of.) What's confusing me is the timeline. It's pretty apparent Hook and Regina first meet when Hook is attempting to rescue Belle. After Hook goes to Wonderland, he begins working with Cora. So either the flashbacks have to occur during the events of 2x09 or afterwards while Hook is allied with Cora. Either way sounds retcon-y.

 

Was there a spoiler that showed Regina was wearing the same blue dress from 2x09?

Edited November 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

Regina didn't know that the Cora death was fake though, so it's not a problem if they team up post-Cora because she thinks he did what she asked. In fact, it would make sense for her to semi-trust him since he did what she'd tasked him with.

[BoPeeps]

...perhaps Killian will exhibit an intense Death Wish and confront or push anyone who may be able to kill Dark One Jones and put him out of his passionately unasked for and desperately unwanted new misery.

(Blah blah blah....Bastard writers!)

[PixiePaws1]

I mostly agree with this, but the thing holding me back is trying to figure out how all the Dark Ones get loose and what Hook is doing confronting people at Regina's.

Maybe this is Hades blackmailing the SBers to hand over Killian ..sort of "You want to keep your DO so very much then fine .. you can have all the DOs you can handle cos they're just cluttering up Tartarus and it hasn't had a proper clean out in centuries!"

[Serena]

Maybe this is Hades blackmailing the SBers to hand over Killian ..sort of "You want to keep your DO so very much then fine .. you can have all the DOs you can handle cos they're just cluttering up Tartarus and it hasn't had a proper clean out in centuries!"

That would make sense. Hades sends the DOs because he's sick of the Nevengers never paying the price (except for Emma, of course). And, surprise! Emma ends up paying the price by losing Hook.

[chrisvee]

His choice was to die. She took away his agency and put him in a position he knew he could not handle. While he ultimately owns his behaviour, I should hope that she feels guilty for drugging him with evil when she knew he was an addict. This is a completely messed up situation...This is the show that ships a guy who constantly puts his wife to sleep or steals her memories so he can do evil (and who killed his first wife) and a village slaughtering rapist who killed the wife of her boyfriend, so I suspect A&E will think it is so romantic to send Emma to the Underworld for an unrepentant villain who tried to kill her family to resurrect him after he deservedly got put down. Argh!

Yeah I'm not loving this storyline for similar reasons. Emma could barely withstand the darkness with alleged light magic and with Hook's love. Hook doesn't have either of those things. While I'm desperate for a spoiler that we have a Spike not an Angelus I'm worried A&E will assassinate Hook's character while he's dark and just think 'hey he's worse than Rumpel but we redeemed him!'

ETA: Hook's my favorite character followed by Emma. I'm pretty annoyed by how much harder the writers make things for Emma vs Rumpel and Regina. No one will be happier if we get a spoiler indicating some redemptive act on Hook's part. I hate how the poor man begged to die because he was so afraid he couldn't fight the darkness and also how they blackened him up with a few more deaths on his tally right before they did this.

But I am pretty darned worried about the invasion of Dark Ones and the marking. I worry that Hook is going after Emma's entire family.

I also worry that this story is about Emma -- and another test for her to pass -- that she not put her walls back up after being betrayed again.

Edited November 20, 2015 by chrisvee

[sharky]

With regards to the Regina/Hook flashback, I think that's in the same episode as the Hook's dad flashback. I wonder if all of that happens in the same time frame, which then makes me wonder if Hook does know who his father is. Perhaps Regina asked him to do something and he calls on his father's help, knowing his father is Charon. That could then lead us to the present-day parallel with Hook calling on his father again. There have only been little mentions here or there of his father abandoning the Jones boys. And when the Nevengers got rid of the fury, Hook wasn't with them if I remember correctly, so he wouldn't have seen the ferryman and said, "Oh hey, dad. What's up?" I've been thinking this whole time that it was going to be a surprise for Hook to realize that his father is Charon when daddy comes to claim him for the Underworld, but I wonder if the surprise is really that Hook knows exactly who his father is and what his father does.

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't think it's three weeks. I think things are going to happen pretty quickly in Camelot once Hook gets back from the vault. The "three weeks" have been what we've seen happen in Storybrooke since they've gotten back, even though that seems like too much time in Storybrooke .

Doesn't it have to be 3 wks in Camelot though. When they get back to Storybrooke it's 6 wks later. The show has only covered 3 wks in Camelot so far. I think they're using the point of their return as the marker for "3 weeks ago" plus a few days that they've been back. Based on piecing the Storybrooke evening scenes and stuff together it's been at least 4ish days so it's probably only been about a week since they've returned. If it's been a week and it's 3 wks earlier from that point, that'd still leave 2 wks Camelot time.

Ugh. I'm starting to stress out about all the content they have to get through in the next 2 episodes. I really, really don't want a repeat of 4x11.

Didn't One of the writers (Brigitte) say that that finale will have a lot of emotional payoff for fans? Or was that the 100th? Ugh. i hope she's right.

Edited November 19, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[FierceAfroChick]

 

Didn't One of the writers (Brigitte) say that that finale will have a lot of emotional payoff for fans? Or was that the 100th? Ugh. i hope she's right.

 

I think so.  Isn't it also the one where she said it'll have fans crying in the good way?  If she's not exaggerating, that bodes well for Hook and Emma.  I hope they're in a good place before they get separated.  And given the filming spoilers, seems like they'll be apart for a bit.

[YaddaYadda]

With regards to the Regina/Hook flashback, I think that's in the same episode as the Hook's dad flashback. I wonder if all of that happens in the same time frame, which then makes me wonder if Hook does know who his father is. Perhaps Regina asked him to do something and he calls on his father's help, knowing his father is Charon. That could then lead us to the present-day parallel with Hook calling on his father again. There have only been little mentions here or there of his father abandoning the Jones boys. And when the Nevengers got rid of the fury, Hook wasn't with them if I remember correctly, so he wouldn't have seen the ferryman and said, "Oh hey, dad. What's up?" I've been thinking this whole time that it was going to be a surprise for Hook to realize that his father is Charon when daddy comes to claim him for the Underworld, but I wonder if the surprise is really that Hook knows exactly who his father is and what his father does.

 

I think what throws this thing off is that A&E said they were looking to cast Hook's younger self. I don't know if they'd have changed their minds on that or not, since they seemed to have the whole thing planned out with Hook/EQ's adventure.

 

Maybe Hook stumbles upon him during the adventure, and has a moment of WTF since I'm thinking his father hasn't aged a day, and Hook has been in Neverland for who knows how long. I noticed they were back to the whole "centuries" mantra, that Hook mentioned like 3-4 times in the same episode.

 

I think so.  Isn't it also the one where she said it'll have fans crying in the good way?  If she's not exaggerating, that bodes well for Hook and Emma.  I hope they're in a good place before they get separated.  And given the filming spoilers, seems like they'll be apart for a bit.

 

I don't know how Hook going to the Underworld, presumably dead, and Emma being torn up about it is a good cry for any Emma Swan, Hook, Captain Swan fans. It's more of a stab me in the heart, here's the ugly sobbing.

 

Someone who hates Hook might have a good cry when he "dies". 

[FierceAfroChick]

I’m thinking her “good cry” scenario involves Hook saving himself and Emma from the Dark One curse, them kissing and making up, Emma vowing to go get her man.  Even if he ends up going to the UW, he and Emma emotionally reconciling would be good cry worthy for me.

 

But girlfriend has exaggerated before so…

Edited November 19, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[Souris]

I think so.  Isn't it also the one where she said it'll have fans crying in the good way?  If she's not exaggerating, that bodes well for Hook and Emma.  I hope they're in a good place before they get separated.  And given the filming spoilers, seems like they'll be apart for a bit.

 

She also said she thought it was a beautiful story, but I don't trust her judgment TBH, since her whole gushing about how 5x05 was going to break Twitter. Writers and fans don't look at things the same way.

[PixiePaws1]

I think what throws this thing off is that A&E said they were looking to cast Hook's younger self. I don't know if they'd have changed their minds on that or not, since they seemed to have the whole thing planned out with Hook/EQ's adventure.

Maybe Hook stumbles upon him during the adventure, and has a moment of WTF since I'm thinking his father hasn't aged a day, and Hook has been in Neverland for who knows how long. I noticed they were back to the whole "centuries" mantra, that Hook mentioned like 3-4 times in the same episode.

I don't know how Hook going to the Underworld, presumably dead, and Emma being torn up about it is a good cry for any Emma Swan, Hook, Captain Swan fans. It's more of a stab me in the heart, here's the ugly sobbing.

Someone who hates Hook might have a good cry when he "dies".

oh god yes..so much sobbing..ye gods i can't do a whole freaking season of them separated!! Can't they destroy someone else's happiness in 5b snd give Emma a break?!

I have this cheesy vision of Emma running Killian through with the sword and him walking towards her to break the DO curse with TLk and then.....never mind. .!

Maybe it goes slightly different. Killian almost slightly kills Emma and it's his turn to break Hades' Sword of Death Round-Robin Rules to cheat and keep her alive and he is the one to not pass go and collects a trip to the UW.

Edited November 19, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[Serena]

I’m thinking her “good cry” scenario involves Hook saving himself and Emma from the Dark One curse, them kissing and making up, Emma vowing to go get her man.  Even if he ends up going to the UW, he and Emma emotionally reconciling would be good cry worthy for me.

Yeah, I'm thinking it ends on Hook and/or Emma saving the day, Emma being de-Dark Oned, Hook dying/going to the Underworld, and then at the very end when Snowing or Regina are like "OMG we're so sorry you lost him Emma" she'll be like "Well I'm not giving up" and that'll be the "good" part of the good crying.

[Mathius]

I agree: the good crying would be Hook being good after all and sacrificing himself, followed by the knowledge that he isn't lost forever and can be retrieved, plus that everyone will - finally - rally around Emma and support her needs.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Mathius

[RadioGirl27]

Didn't One of the writers (Brigitte) say that that finale will have a lot of emotional payoff for fans? Or was that the 100th? Ugh. i hope she's right. 

I wouldn't take anything she says seriously. She tends to overexaggerate things. Looking at what we know right now, the only ones that are going to enjoy the finale are Hook's haters.

[Mathius]

Looking at what we know right now, the only ones that are going to enjoy the finale are Hook's haters.

 

Not really, Hook's haters that have already heard the spoilers about the Underworld mission being all about saving him are ENRAGED and going on about how it's destroying Emma's character, with many of them swearing to skip watching the finale altogether.  Also, this definitely rules out Hook as the "show co-lead who will look irreversibly dead" that was spoiled, since the possibility of reversing the death will be raised within the episode to set up the next arc.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

How dare Emma actually choose herself for once. You'd think they'd never heard of character growth. No Emma must always be miserable and a slave to these people who has screwed her over whether it's intentional or not.

[YaddaYadda]

How dare Emma actually choose herself for once. You'd think they'd never heard of character growth. No Emma must always be miserable and a slave to these people who has screwed her over whether it's intentional or not.

Plus I doubt Emma is dragging anyone with her to the Underworld that doesn't wanna be there. We still don't know what's going on with Rumple, but even he seems to be trying to help out.

 

When Hook's cut started bleeding, everyone rallied around him. David and Henry were crouching next to him, Belle looked horrified, Regina sounded concerned, Robin moved to help, and looked stunned, Snow wanted Merlin, even Emma to try and do something to help him. It's when Merlin who stood away, unshaken, not all that surprised, said that there was nothing to be done, and the consequences of what Emma would do, that made Snowing, and Regina wanna stop her.

 

It's kind of important to realize that as much as that diner scene was about Emma, and Hook, it was also important for the people who were around them, and the way they felt watching this guy bleeding and basically dying.

[snarkybelle]

When Emma whisked Killian to the field of Middlemist flowers, did she leave behind the Dark One dagger with her name on it and just took the broken sword? I'm just wondering when the "If your name is on something, hold on to it" line comes in.  Her parents and Regina didn't want her to take that final step into the Darkness to save Killian.  Regina is always quick to use the dagger on Emma.  It's like an addicting drug.  

[YaddaYadda]

When Emma whisked Killian to the field of Middlemist flowers, did she leave behind the Dark One dagger with her name on it and just took the broken sword? I'm just wondering when the "If your name is on something, hold on to it" line comes in.  Her parents and Regina didn't want her to take that final step into the Darkness to save Killian.  Regina is always quick to use the dagger on Emma.  It's like an addicting drug.  

 

No, she has both pieces with her. You can actually see the dagger in some of the takes.