Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[mjgchick]

No they were right about Hook being the worst villain. He absolutely sucks at being a villain. Nothing about Hook is menacing. The only thing scary about him is how wreck less he is. Looking at the promo it looks like he's trying to commit suicide with this Rumple stuff.

[YaddaYadda]

Looking at the promo it looks like he's trying to commit suicide with this Rumple stuff.

 

Sucks for him that he's immortal then.

 

Hook should sit his pretty ass down, and think a little bit.

[Hookian]

Interesting. So Hercules is a one-off, but probably!Hades is recurring. 

Don't get too comfortable that can easily change. 

 

BTW Larry confirmed Colin filmed yesterday.

A&E love to repeat themselves, so I can see the season going like this: Emma is the DO all 5A and Hook is the DO all 5B, and by the end of the season, when the destruction of both characters is complete, Rumple gets his DO powers back and Hook's redemption (if he survives) is totally undone and he (and CS) are back in square one.

 

No way are CS back in square one by the end of this season. After all the talk of the future, wedding foreshadowing, and now the promise of a house I think the finale will end with CS living in that house and engaged.

 

Emma will literally be going to hell for him in 5B, there's no way they're gonna be back to square one. 

I hope he's not dark for the rest of the season. That's a total retread of what we've already seen... just with another character. After this arc, I want to do something different from Dark One stuff.

I personally think he's the person Merlin was referring to about a person who could hold all the darkness and still maintain control of the light. At the end of the last episode he was saying that he's so weak and how he wouldn't be able to do it again, so I think it's definitely him.

 

He's gonna consume all of the darkness and then kill himself ultimately destroying the darkness for good. 

[YaddaYadda]

No way are CS back in square one by the end of this season. After all the talk of the future, wedding foreshadowing, and now the promise of a house I think the finale will end with CS living in that house and engaged.

 

Emma will literally be going to hell for him in 5B, there's no way they're gonna be back to square one. 

 

He's angry, with reason, but like you said, going back to square one is not happening. 

 

I'm guessing they will go with the 2 hour season finale like they've done the last 2 seasons.

[FierceAfroChick]

Uh…they better not go back to square one.  I need my fade-to-black sex scene.

[Hookian]

He's angry, with reason, but like you said, going back to square one is not happening. 

 

I'm guessing they will go with the 2 hour season finale like they've done the last 2 seasons.

 

It's simply ridiculous to think that they're gonna go back to the beginning. No way is that happening. By the end of the season I fully expect Operation Light Swan will have been completed and successful.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Hookian

[InsertWordHere]

So in the promo it looks like Merida and Hook are at Regina's house. If Robin's baby is there, and I think she is, then I think Hook is trying to get the cries of a newborn baby that are supposedly needed for the spell everyone thought Emma was going to use. This, combined with Emma and everyone else fighting the cloaked figures from set pics, pretty much convinces me that Hook is really dark in Storybrooke and he does listen to the Dark Ones in his head, at least temporarily.

[YaddaYadda]

Also seems like Emma and Regina are having the conversation in her house.

 

What is Merida doing in Regina's house? Is she the sitter or something?

[FierceAfroChick]

So in the promo it looks like Merida and Hook are at Regina's house. If Robin's baby is there, and I think she is, then I think Hook is trying to get the cries of a newborn baby that are supposedly needed for the spell everyone thought Emma was going to use. This, combined with Emma and everyone else fighting the cloaked figures from set pics, pretty much convinces me that Hook is really dark in Storybrooke and he does listen to the Dark Ones in his head, at least temporarily.

 

Or I’m wondering if he’s there for Merida.  Because he’s supposed to be mad at someone other than Emma (if that spoiler is correct).  Once he gets all his memories back, maybe he discovers she interfered with some plan he had?  Maybe he discovers she has something he needs in order to complete a plan he's currently developing?

[InsertWordHere]

I was thinking that Robin might have asked Merida to help protect the baby. I know they haven't really interacted, and part of this is wishful thinking because I want a Snow/Robin/Merida archery smack talk conversation at some point, but I like the idea of Robin asking for another archer's help, even though he already has a powerful magic user at his disposal. I think both Zelena and Hook are after the baby but for different reasons. 

[SiobhanJW]

http://celebritybabies.people.com/2015/11/17/ginnifer-goodwin-pregnant-expecting-second-child-josh-dallas/

How exciting!!! Congrats to them!! I'm assuming pregnancy will NOT be written in?? Lol.

Edited November 17, 2015 by SiobhanJW

[kili]

If Robin's baby is there, and I think she is, then I think Hook is trying to get the cries of a newborn baby that are supposedly needed for the spell everyone thought Emma was going to use.

 

On the scale of things, capturing the cries of a newborn seems pretty minor. How new must the newbortn be? And why is Merlin writing this spell down again? He's like the Howard Stark of the Enchanted Forrest. Sure, why not create all these dangerous objects and spells. What possibly could go wrong? I hope he is dead. The guy is menace.

 

This, combined with Emma and everyone else fighting the cloaked figures from set pics, pretty much convinces me that Hook is really dark in Storybrooke and he does listen to the Dark Ones in his head

 

If they don't give us a good reason why Hook can be all goody-two-shoes in Storybrooke before he knew and the evilest-evil after he knows, I'm calling BS. And why didn't the Dark Ones in his head say anything? Did Emma somehow manage to make them all lose their memories too? "Huh. Why am I in this guy's head? IDK. Good thing I'm not evil or anything because otherwise, I might try to get him to do something evil too. But, I don't know who I am. So, I'll just chillax and enjoy the onion rings for now. Look! Squirrel."

 

What is Merida doing in Regina's house? Is she the sitter or something?

 

In Storybrooke, the crazy woman you just met who tried to murder Belle and turned into a bear is exactly the kind of person people would hire to sit for their newborns. That is exactly how they roll.

[HoodlumSheep]

Ooohhh, I forgot about the newborn baby crying spell. I wonder if anything else is needed for the spell...unless Hook's gonna pull a zelena and try to break the rules of magic (baby? Check. courage? Maybe that's what he gets from rumple. Check.....).

[KateJones]

I interpreted the tears of a newborn baby bit as a red herring because what Emma wanted was Zelena, and that's why she accelerated the pregnancy, to save the baby before she could kill Zelena. I am not sure we will ever hear about the tears of a newborn baby issue again.

[Serena]

It's simply ridiculous to think that they're gonna go back to the beginning. No way is that happening. By the end of the season I fully expect Operation Light Swan will have been completed and successful.

Operation Light Swan is a cool name for the season finale. Since, you know, we had to get through TWO episodes called "Operation Mongoose". 

 

How nice for Josh and Ginny! I guess that means after the 513 Snow-centric episode, we'll get a Snow-lite rest of the season. Or maybe *gasp!* they could have her sit down and only have scenes where she has conversations from now on?

[RadioGirl27]

If that's Regina's house, maybe he is after Regina. We know her, she probably used the dagger on Emma to make her kill him or something like that. 

[InsertWordHere]

But isn't the spell they looked up exactly what chippy Nimue wants Emma to do? The Nimue that is now potentially also in Hook's head. We know the past Dark Ones get out in Storybrooke somehow, who lets them out? I don't think it's Emma, I think it's Hook.

[YaddaYadda]

If that's Regina's house, maybe he is after Regina. We know her, she probably used the dagger on Emma to make her kill him or something like that. 

That'd be hard since he has the whole sword. 

[Souris]

But isn't the spell they looked up exactly what chippy Nimue wants Emma to do? The Nimue that is now potentially also in Hook's head. We know the past Dark Ones get out in Storybrooke somehow, who lets them out? I don't think it's Emma, I think it's Hook.

 

That's totally what I think, too.

[HoodlumSheep]

At least someone admitted that the snow globe stuff got chopped, but could potentially turn up again later. At least they axed it quickly. Better than getting that other scene there was supposed to be, and then chopping it.

[YaddaYadda]

But isn't the spell they looked up exactly what chippy Nimue wants Emma to do? The Nimue that is now potentially also in Hook's head. We know the past Dark Ones get out in Storybrooke somehow, who lets them out? I don't think it's Emma, I think it's Hook.

 

He probably does, then has his Gob moment of "I did a bad thing".

 

I wonder if making the Dark Ones corporeal wouldn't help stick the darkness into them.

 

Maybe that's the whole reason the Nimue is marking people. It's the whole a life for a life business a la Neal and Rumple back in season 3.

Edited November 17, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[RadioGirl27]

That'd be hard since he has the whole sword. 

I was talking about Camelot, not Storybrooke. Maybe Regina is the one Hook has to be mad with because of something she did in Camelot. And we know how Regina is not against using the dagger on Emma.

 

The promo for next episode seems to be showing parts of only three scenes: when he goes to Gold's shop, the fight in the Jolly and a scene in Regina's house, with Regina, Emma, Merida and Hook.

 

Some people think Hook is faking it, but I'm pretty sure they are going to have him do something truly bad before he realizes that he is wrong and either sacrifices himself or Emma kills him. (I know, I'm very negative, but I don't trust this writers at all). 

Edited November 17, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[chrisvee]

We need a theory that accounts for both de-darkening Emma and killing Hook. If Hook has gone all Angelus and Emma has to put him down like a rabid dog with Excalibur, how does that de-darken her? If Hook is conversely trying to end the Dark Ones forever, what would he do? He would cut the darkness out of Emma and put it into himself as she planned to do to Zelena, then get her to kill him??

[OnceUponAJen]

Is it wrong that I'd like to see Dark Swan and Dark Hook having a turf war over the house?

I mean if I were Granny, I would not want the Dark One hanging around my place. Might be bad for business!

Edited November 17, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[InsertWordHere]

I just looked and the Emma/Hook scene in the promo is also at Regina's house, which is apparently now Grand Central Station. 

He probably does, then has his Gob moment of "I did a bad thing".

Oh yeah, I totally think he's going to change his mind. They may be making him the co-Big Bad of this arc (Nimue, not Emma, is the other Big Bad), but he's going to be an Ingrid, not a Pan.

 

We need a theory that accounts for both de-darkening Emma and killing Hook. If Hook has gone all Angelus and Emma has to put him down like a rabid dog with Excalibur, how does that de-darken her?

I do think it will be a TLK. They both have to want to give up the power for it to work and it's going to be super sad because they will both know that doing so will kill him. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[chrisvee]

Is it wrong that I'd like to see Dark Swan and Dark Hook having a turf war over the house?

It'd be like War of the Roses with dark magic.

[sharky]

http://celebritybabies.people.com/2015/11/17/ginnifer-goodwin-pregnant-expecting-second-child-josh-dallas/

How exciting!!! Congrats to them!! I'm assuming pregnancy will NOT be written in?? Lol.

So another season full of unflattering clothes for Ginnifer. Well, I guess that's a spoiler then.

 

As for Hook, I still feel like he's playing Zelena with that line about "I'm going to make you hurt," to Emma -- now even more so if we think they're in Regina's house for some reason. There's something shady going on with those Dark Ones -- or at least one of them.

[Rumsy4]

http://celebritybabies.people.com/2015/11/17/ginnifer-goodwin-pregnant-expecting-second-child-josh-dallas/

How exciting!!! Congrats to them!! I'm assuming pregnancy will NOT be written in?? Lol.

Please, no! It will be named baby Cora. Congrats to Ginny and Josh!

In Storybrooke, the crazy woman you just met who tried to murder Belle and turned into a bear is exactly the kind of person people would hire to sit for their newborns. That is exactly how they roll.

LMAO. Yup.

Ooohhh, I forgot about the newborn baby crying spell. I wonder if anything else is needed for the spell...unless Hook's gonna pull a zelena and try to break the rules of magic (baby? Check. courage? Maybe that's what he gets from rumple. Check.....).

Ohh... maybe he is trying to cast a Time Travel spell. He can rip out Regina's resilient heart and collect Baby Green at the same time. :-p

Oh yeah, I totally think he's going to change his mind. They may be making him the co-Big Bad of this arc (Nimue, not Emma, is the other Big Bad), but he's going to be an Ingrid, not a Pan.

I think the Snowglobe could have belonged to Ingrid. Maybe the original plan was to make an allusion Ingrid for later.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Rumsy4

[InsertWordHere]

As for Hook, I still feel like he's playing Zelena with that line about "I'm going to make you hurt," to Emma -- now even more so if we think they're in Regina's house for some reason. There's something shady going on with those Dark Ones -- or at least one of them.

I too think Hook is playing Zelena at Emma's house when he said we need to get rid of her. He's going to poof her somewhere and then either poof away himself of talk to Emma. The "I want to hurt you" scene from the promo is in Regina's house the next day. Possibly Hook is trying to hurt Emma's feelings to distract her from his plans. The question is, what is his plan? Is he planning to destroy his own magic and something goes wrong and the Dark Ones get released? Hook doesn't care about the bigger picture of the war between light and dark magic, he never has. I doubt he cares about snuffing out the light. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[shipperx]

I do think it will be a TLK. They both have to want to give up the power for it to work and it's going to be super sad because they will both know that doing so will kill him.

This would totally work. We even had Belle mention the TLK to Hook earlier this season. Hook wants that life with Emma. He died wanting that more than power or revenge...and deep down he wants it still. So the kiss would work... And would kill him. Hence the angst.

[Rumsy4]

If they do have a TLK moment for Captain Swan this season, it will be better at the end of this arc. One or more of them being in mortal danger again in 5B would be redundant. Of course, a TLK could play into releasing Hook from the Underworld. 

[Hookian]

If they do have a TLK moment for Captain Swan this season, it will be better at the end of this arc. One or more of them being in mortal danger again in 5B would be redundant. Of course, a TLK could play into releasing Hook from the Underworld. 

Yeah I expect TLK will happen at the end of the season.

[Mathius]

I think Hook is gonna be playing NIMUE, not Zelena.  I think Hook and Merlin are going to be in on a secret plan together, according to Elliot Knight's statements and A&E saying that Merlin plays a key role in the arc's resolution.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

On a promo-related note, when will Merida learn that shooting arrows at Dark Ones is not going to work? She keeps repeating the same mistakes all the time and expects a different outcome. You know what that is a sign of...

[PixiePaws1]

On a promo-related note, when will Merida learn that shooting arrows at Dark Ones is not going to work? She keeps repeating the same mistakes all the time and expects a different outcome. You know what that is a sign of...

yes..if only she'd learn to put squid ink on it first. .. then slap an anti magic cuff on....and keep him away from sharp objects .. hmm...or maybe just leave it the hell alone

[YaddaYadda]

We need a theory that accounts for both de-darkening Emma and killing Hook. If Hook has gone all Angelus and Emma has to put him down like a rabid dog with Excalibur, how does that de-darken her? If Hook is conversely trying to end the Dark Ones forever, what would he do? He would cut the darkness out of Emma and put it into himself as she planned to do to Zelena, then get her to kill him??

Are they going to kill him twice within 3 episodes? That seems to be overkill to me.

 

I think they figure out a way to take the darkness out of Emma, and I'm going against the current on this one, because I think Nimue does know how to do that because she's probably done it for herself. I think after a while of being the Dark One, Nimue passed the darkness down to someone so that she can have the life she had before Vortigan happened to her.

 

Rumple has been de-darked, but the darkness that was Rumplestiltskin still exists. I think this is exactly what happened with Nimue, and I think this is why Merlin wants the Nevengers to find her, because she can actually help.

 

They take the darkness out of Emma, stick in Hook. We know Excalibur gets broken once more. The sword as a whole is too dangerous. You can't control the Dark One.

 

Hook figures a way to go to the Underworld or summons his father to take him there. It's better to be the Dark One in the Underworld where people are already dead, than to be the Dark One in Storybrooke where he might lost his shit because of whatever.

 

As for Hook, I still feel like he's playing Zelena with that line about "I'm going to make you hurt," to Emma -- now even more so if we think they're in Regina's house for some reason. There's something shady going on with those Dark Ones -- or at least one of them.

We all know Hook has a flare for the dramatics. He can be borderline hysterical at times. 

 

I think he's doing this stuff on purpose, and he's doing it in front of an audience. If he's in Regina's house, then Regina will be there, and Snowing probably too, so what will they try to do?

 

They'll try and keep her from him, which means whatever he's going to do, there'll be no one to stop him.

 

I think Hook is gonna be playing NIMUE, not Zelena.  I think Hook and Merlin are going to be in on a secret plan together, according to Elliot Knight's statements and A&E saying that Merlin plays a key role in the arc's resolution.

 

I think Nimue is two separate people like Rumple is right now.

 

And Merlin better be in on the solution. This shit, from the forging of Excalibur, to the birth of the Dark One, to the situation at hand is all his fault.

 

I hope he feels some guilt over it.

[HoodlumSheep]

Someone said on tumblr that it looked like Merida switched targets when she shot that arrow. If that's the case, then who was she aiming at first? zelena? emma? After watching the promo it does look like she may have switched targets, or was at least trying to surprise Hook.

Edited November 17, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

Are they going to kill him twice within 3 episodes? That seems to be overkill to me.

I don't know if that was intentional, but it's rather brilliant for two deaths in three episodes to be overkill. :-) Also known as Rory Williams syndrome.

 

I'm trying to figure where Merida plays into this. She's sworn vengeance on Emma. Hook appears to be mad at Emma (but is he acting upon it?). Merida might see Hook as an ally, given that he was the one who talked Emma down from crushing her heart and he was the one who told the others Merida needed to be released from the prison.

[formerlyfreedom]

FYI - Ginny and Josh expecting a baby is not a spoiler. Please take any further conversation to the appropriate topic.

[Souris]

I don't know if that was intentional, but it's rather brilliant for two deaths in three episodes to be overkill. :-) Also known as Rory Williams syndrome.

 

It's gonna get to the point of being like Kenny on South Park. "Oh my God, you killed Killy!"

 

I think IF Dark Hook is playing Emma and everyone, it won't be revealed until 5x11, so we'll spend all of 5x10 and part of 5x11 thinking he's truly gone Evil before All Is Revealed when he sacrifices himself. But I'm still leaning toward either a Buffy/Angel situation where Emma has to kill him to save everyone, or he fights off the darkness at the last moment just before his evil plan comes to fruition and he sacrifices himself.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Souris

[regularlyleaded]

Are we sure Hook dies? I know it's speculation, but speculation based on what spoilers? I've completely lost track of the spoilers that have led to the assumption that Hook dies.

 

From the spoilers that I recall, and based on how the story has unfolded so far, I lean towards the idea that Hook doesn't die, but that Dark Hook will be the Big Bad for 5B (and not so much the super Big Bad and more like how Dark Swan was the "Big Bad" in that she's really not. Whoever Greg Germann's recurring character is, I think, will be the Bag Bad for 5B). That is to say, I don't think there's a mission trying to bring Hook back from the dead. It seems to me less that Hook dies and more that Dark Hook escapes and they give chase....but then why/how is Emma undarkened, how/why is Rumple using the dagger again, how/why is the dagger back, and why is Henry, who contributes nothing and just gets in the way all the damn time -- and OMG why won't he just GO AWAY!!! --- why is he there in those spoiler pics in what is possibly Underbrooke with everyone else. (then again, I always wonder why is Henry on the screen at all and not in a boarding school in another dimension where we never have to see or hear from him ever again. Or dead. Dead would be good too. :-P) 

Edited November 17, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[Mathius]

A&E's comments lean toward Dark Hook being dealt with along with Dark Emma, Nimue, and the whole Dark One crisis, though.  I think it's obvious that he's going to become the embodiment of all the darkness and willingly die so that the darkness is gone, Emma is free, and she doesn't have to force it onto anyone else like Zelena in order to solve the problem.  

 

The part about this I'm dreading is that I am 99% sure that Regina is going to be the one to kill Hook.  All the foreshadowing about being the one to do what's necessary, being the one to save the town, the fact that A&E have said repeatedly that Hook and Regina both would be key in saving Emma, AND the fact that the episode flashback is about an alliance between Hook and Regina....the SQers are going to be having a field day with it, context be damned.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Mathius

[RadioGirl27]

The part about this I'm dreading is that I am 99% sure that Regina is going to be the one to kill Hook.

You know, this is what I think too, but I was afraid to write it down.

[Souris]

Are we sure Hook dies? I know it's speculation, but speculation based on what spoilers? I've completely lost track of the spoilers that have led to the assumption that Hook dies.

 

Pretty darn sure. Scene of the group, Dark Emma, Hook & hooded figures near the lake. Then a scene with the group minus Hook & the hooded figures, and Emma is de-Darkened and she's wearing his ring on a chain around her neck.

 

There are photos from the cemetery filming for 5x12 that appear to show a grave marker with "Killian Jones" on it. An intrepid CSer searched that cemetery's online database and found a real marker in that exact spot for a "Lillian Jones." So they probably just set-dressed the "L" to a "K." Handy!

 

The part about this I'm dreading is that I am 99% sure that Regina is going to be the one to kill Hook.  All the foreshadowing about being the one to do what's necessary, being the one to save the town, the fact that A&E have said repeatedly that Hook and Regina both would be key in saving Emma, AND the fact that the episode flashback is about an alliance between Hook and Regina....the SQers are going to be having a field day with it, context be damned.

 

I have been living in terror of this, as well. I could totally see this happening. And then Emma will thank her. I was 100% convinced at one point that this is what will happen, but I kind of pushed it to the back of my mind because it was annoying me too much to think about it.

 

If we're lucky, it will be a plan between Hook and Regina and not just her call.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Souris

[Rumsy4]

There are photos from the cemetery filming for 5x12 that appear to show a grave marker with "Killian Jones" on it. An intrepid CSer searched that cemetery's online database and found a real marker in that exact spot for a "Lillian Jones." So they probably just set-dressed the "L" to a "K." Handy!

 

I don't think it was changed to Killian. It looks too old to use for the show. Emma is not going to making gravestones for Hook. She wants to go there to rescue him. I feel that there won't be a body. He's going to be collected by Charon like Robin almost was.

[YaddaYadda]

There are photos from the cemetery filming for 5x12 that appear to show a grave marker with "Killian Jones" on it. An intrepid CSer searched that cemetery's online database and found a real marker in that exact spot for a "Lillian Jones." So they probably just set-dressed the "L" to a "K." Handy!

 

The actors are wearing the same clothes in 5x12, 5x13 that they were in 5x11. So I'm not sure there's a time jump, or a grave for Hook.

 

I think we are getting the same thing that we got in 5x01. Transitioning from 5x11 into 5x12 directly. 

 

Plus the reason for the time jump is sort of gone now that Zelena has given birth. That was the main reason they would've done that.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm worried how they're going to incorporate Ruby and Mulan into the few eps they'll be in for 5b. They're in the EF. Are we going to get random episodes ala The Bear King? Or what?

Edited November 18, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

Had a sudden thought. I'm afraid the writers might use the memory loss plot devise again in 5B, because we know how much they love it. When Emma &co. find Hook in the UW, he may have no idea of who they are. The shades drink from the Lethe soon after arrival right? I can't see Hook willingly drink the waters, but he maybe forced to by Hades or someone else. 

 

ETA: 

I'm worried how they're going to incorporate Ruby and Mulan into the few eps they'll be in for 5b. They're in the EF. Are we going to get random episodes ala The Bear King? Or what?

 

I think/hope they'll be better integrated, as Bear King was rather an afterthought. The Nevengers may take another trip to the EF and come across them there.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Mathius]

If we're lucky, it will be a plan between Hook and Regina and not just her call.

It's almost definitely a plan between them, since it's meant to parallel the flashback of Hook and the Evil Queen working together. That won't stop the SQ shippers from changing the context entirely in gifs and whatnot to be Regina killing Hook over Emma's love.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

I just saw a theory that Young Hercules (Not played by one of the Ryan's) must've been in love with Young Snow and that's how they know each other. I can't if this is true.