Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Rumsy4]

Leanne has some scoop coming up for the 100th episode. From her emojis, people are speculating Jefferson and Graham. https://twitter.com/leanneaguilera/status/664670220691214336

Tbh, I can hardly believe Sebastian Stan will do a guest spot. We'll see...

[Souris]

I find it hard to believe they could get either Sebastian or Jamie. Perhaps we will "see" them via old footage in a montage of memories or something. Or perhaps they could work in doing a tiny cameo by themselves wherever they are.

 

I guess it's also possible they could use Jefferson's hat to get to the Underworld without needing the actor, but then they'd run into the problem of only the same number being able to return as went there. Unless they decide to go and figure out how to get Hook back later. But no hat was seen in filming.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Souris

[InsertWordHere]

I just realized that if Zelena's responsible for Hook being mortally wounded (and I definitely think she is), it adds a whole other layer to her and Emma's Storybrooke convo, including the part where she taunted Emma about killing Neal. She didn't kill Neal but she possibly "killed" Hook and doesn't remember. Zelena, how could you do that to your ship?

I guess it's also possible they could use Jefferson's hat to get to the Underworld without needing the actor, but then they'd run into the problem of only the same number being able to return as went there. Unless they decide to go and figure out how to get Hook back later. But no hat was seen in filming.

If they use the hat maybe Emma is forcing Rumple to come along so she can leave him there. I kid. Emma wouldn't do that and it's never going to happen.

[KAOS Agent]

With all this talk about character death, I'm now wondering about Regina comment about how there's nothing you can't come back from. I have no desire to rewatch that episode, but it would be interesting to see Emma's reaction to that statement. Death is pretty damn permanent except on this show for this one character.

 

I bet we get some flashbacks of Graham and Jefferson in the 100th. The actors certainly aren't going to be in it for such a brief cameo appearance. I can't imagine the show has the budget for that anyway.

[PixiePaws1]

With all this talk about character death, I'm now wondering about Regina comment about how there's nothing you can't come back from. I have no desire to rewatch that episode, but it would be interesting to see Emma's reaction to that statement. Death is pretty damn permanent except on this show for this one character.

I bet we get some flashbacks of Graham and Jefferson in the 100th. The actors certainly aren't going to be in it for such a brief cameo appearance. I can't imagine the show has the budget for that anyway.

Hard to see they have the budget but Sebastian seemed to thoroughly enjoy the character and it was very well written (ah...s1 how I miss you! ) and his work in Hat Trick didn't hurt his image any. Maybe. ..just maybe he might do a quick bit...

[LizaD]

If Jamie or SS were in Vancouver the papz would've been all over it. Pictures of those two could probably be sold to any of the rags.

They could name drop the characters, just to get the actors' name attached for some free publicity and hype though.

Or maybe there's some unused footage leftover from back in the day. But that'd be a little desperate.

Edited November 12, 2015 by LizaD

[KingOfHearts]

Cora, Pan, The Blind Witch, Sidney and Cruella... That's an odd mix. Sure they're all villains (or affiliated with villains), but something tells me more will be announced. It's been proven the undead characters aren't illusions, since Pan has had character growth. I do wonder if at least one character is going to be resurrected by the end of the arc. Maybe none of the ones listed, but still.

Edited November 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

I hate to even put this out there, but if someone's going to be resurrected, with Rumple there, it will probably be Neal/Baelfire. Probably as a teenager because MRJ is most likely not returning. Rumple wanted to turn him into a kid back in Season 2 anyway.  

[KAOS Agent]

They can't bring back Neal because they've already named another character after him, but I could see Baelfire returning. Still, Neal expressed himself very clearly in "Manhattan" and said he had no interest in being fourteen again.  And there's just an ick factor in Emma having slept with this guy who is now her own son's age. Even if they wiped his memory or something, it's still not right. 

[PixiePaws1]

They can't bring back Neal because they've already named another character after him, but I could see Baelfire returning..... And there's just an ick factor in Emma having slept with this guy who is now her own son's age. Even if they wiped his memory or something, it's still not right.

Well now. I just don't know how to properly thank you for those hideous images ...ewww!!!!! The sad part is that seems something A^E would think was such a nifty twist...but EWW...just EWWW!!

[InsertWordHere]

That's why I didn't want to put it out there :)

 

And if that were ever to happen, there would probably be gross predictions about waiting till Dylan Schmid is an adult in a few years and reuniting him with Emma with the reasoning that it's not icky because Baelfire is actually a couple hundred years old (never mind the fact that some claim the exact opposite when it comes to older Neal with teenage Emma). JMo would ever even play a hint of such a thing, but I don't trust A&E not to attempt it. Or have Bae magically grow up to Neal in the series finale. 

[PixiePaws1]

seriously. ..you are going to have to buy me some brain bleach for that one..!

[retrograde]

And there's just an ick factor in Emma having slept with this guy who is now her own son's age. Even if they wiped his memory or something, it's still not right. 

I know she didn't sleep with him, but I always wondered if it was weird for Emma seeing young Pinnochio out and about in Storybrooke. They definitely had a "thing."

 

Meanwhile, Jaime Dornan OR Sebastian Stan would be a pretty big score for the show. I can see it happening if one or both is free and still on really good terms with the showrunners. I'd be surprised that they'd snuck in without any of the local paparazzi noticing, though.

[HoodlumSheep]

Maybe they snuck in by way of the many robed figures and filmed in studio? NSYNC managed to do that when they reunited with Justin Timberlake for a song at the MTV (?) music awards 2-3 years back. No one was expecting that.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. :P

[YaddaYadda]

Sadly, the only other option at this point is Lancelot and I don't think he's the thing Gwen loves most, especially in her current condition. 

Lancelot makes no sense especially since in her state, Gwen may not even remember anything about that. At this point, I think the thing Gwen loves most ins Arthur, because he "fixed" her with the Sands of Avalon.

 

A lot of things have to happen between now and when the curse is cast.

 

They have to recapture Zelena for one, and put the cuff back on her. Zelena who has magical powers, and is more powerful than Regina.

 

I still think Emma is commanded with the dagger into casting the curse. 

 

About hologram Merlin, telling everyone they need to find Nimue, again, I still don't get that. If it's planted, then to what purpose was that done since Nimue is the original Dark One? Or is it a hint at where they need to be looking for answers? I mean Nimue's life must've spanned how many years? Maybe something happened in those years that is supposed to inform the Nevengers?

[YaddaYadda]

Sneak peek 2

So the whole sword doesn't control anyone?

 

We can put those speculations to rest that Hook is going to be controlled by the sword.

[mjgchick]

The whole sword doesn't control anyone but when broken you can control them? God I hate these writers. Merlin doesn't deserve this ending.

[Rumsy4]

I'm thinking "Birth" will end in a cliffhanger. Emma will probably save Hook's life in Camelot, but we won't see the Curse being cast until the episode "Broken Heart". That's also the Hook/Regina centric, isn't it?

As Emma has the broken Excalibur by the end of "Birth", it seems likely Merlin was not being controlled by Zelena/Arthur to leave the magical voicemail. It could be Emma making him do it, or maybe she later scrambles his message. I have a feeling that the voice mail thing will make little sense.

ETA: Loved the Sneak Peek. I'm guessing Emma and Hook get tethered to the whole Excalibur later, becauese both their names are on it when Mirror!Hook is sword-fighting Gold.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Rumsy4

[mjgchick]

Got to laugh at Emma for getting mad at him for almost getting killed again. lol

[YaddaYadda]

Got to laugh at Emma for getting mad at him for almost getting killed again. lol

I can understand her being pissed for that. She might've given in into the darkness to save him, whatever she's doing right now has everything to do with him, and he's running around about to get himself killed (like twice in the same night).

 

He's fucking up her plans!

[Rumsy4]

I guess she's been spying on Hook with her telescope to make sure he doesn't get himself killed. haha

Edited November 12, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Curio]

I've watched the sneak peek, so I know there's technically visual evidence that this scene exists, but part of me is still in utter shock that they're finally making Hook and Emma a huge part of the plot this half season. After the terribleness of 4B, it's like...someone pinch me, this is amazing.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know that she's spying on him with her telescope as much as she might have an extra sense about him because of whatever went down in Camelot. I'm curious about the whole all of this will be over by morning.

[Serena]

I have to say, I don't appreciate Leanne's latest headline. It's not because I care whether or not they return, but she's been teasing the article, wrote that clickbait, just to tell us what we already knew (that they weren't coming back)? It's terrible journalism.

[YaddaYadda]

Graham and Jefferson not returning

I so don't care whether they come back or not. Neither fits the whole villains are coming back, and Jefferson is still alive.

 

Plus, don't bring back Graham if it's not to advance the plot with the whole Regina crushed my heart. I doubt the writers have any desire to revisit that anyway. The only thing I care about when it comes to Graham is the way he died. Beyond that, he was boring.

Edited November 12, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[HoodlumSheep]

That was a glorious sneak peek!

A chase through the woods! sassy Hook! problematic fave Arthur! Emma saving her man! CS confrontation! She's doing it for him!

I need moooorrreee!!!!

Also lowkey parallels of them fighting for each other despite not knowing if their feelings are reciprocated? Can't wait for the pretty gifs!

I can already hear the anti's raging lol! Mad because Emma's doing this for Hook (a man--who also if the love of her life), and will probably rage how Emma's character "assassination" is complete.

Emma fights for her loved ones. I bet Hook is going to be kinda upset with her like how he reacted when she gave him cpr. He'd totally sacrifice himself for her, and he probably will think he wasn't worth saving.

Awesome emma was awesome!

Lol. I cackled when I read NA's line, "Emma's doing this...for hook?" Lol. I bet she's miffed.

[mjgchick]

It does sound like Emma's trying to get herself killed because she tells him after tomorrow he doesn't have to worry about the sword.

Also Emma just answered the question on whether she'd go to the end of the worlds or time for him. I don't think he ever expected that.

I'm going to go lie down now.

[YaddaYadda]

It does sound like Emma's trying to get herself killed because she tells him after tomorrow he doesn't have to worry about the sword.

Also Emma just answered the question on whether she'd go to the end of the worlds or time for him. I don't think he ever expected that.

I'm going to go lie down now.

 

She sacrifices her soul, he probably sacrifices his to the Underworld to save her.

 

They need to stop after this.

[HoodlumSheep]

That Leanne article is trollish and click-baity.

I'd be totally fine with her pulling the same stunt with Nealfire, though.

Edited November 12, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[mjgchick]

A&E and Jen are here to ruin lives with this arc.

[Curio]

Plus, don't bring back Graham if it's not to advance the plot with the whole Regina crushed my heart.

 

This is exactly why I'm okay with Graham not returning, because we all know the writers won't touch that topic with a 10 foot pole. The only reason I'd want him back is so the show can finally tie up the loose end about Regina killing him and keeping that secret from Emma, but the writers would somehow ignore this entirely and either have Graham apologize to Regina and see "how far she's come," or they'd set up some jealousy love triangle with Hook where he wants Emma back. So yeah, unless they bring Graham back to discuss Regina killing him, I'd rather he not be on the show at all.

[BoPeeps]

When all the wildly nonsensical filler of inane plot nothingness is said and done, the relationship between Hook and Emma, at its core, is the most adult thing about this show.

He is a passionate firecracker when they let his emotions show and use Colin's immense charm and talents to their best.

Other than seeing the little weasel Arthur get body slammed into a tree trunk, which I thoroughly enjoyed, this complex Killian character with all his smoldering emotions and raw (if not totally thought out) courage makes that Sneak Peak the best of the bunch.

He may not know for sure if the "ring" is what helped him be a survivor, but my guess is without it, he would have done just as well.

[FierceAfroChick]

A&E and Jen are here to ruin lives with this arc.

 

And I'm here for all of it.  Will be gleefully reading all the hate with some chocolate and a bottle of moscato.

 

Other than seeing the little weasel Arthur get body slammed into a tree trunk, which I thoroughly enjoyed, this complex Killian character with all his smoldering emotions and raw (if not totally thought out) courage makes that Sneak Peak the best of the bunch.

 

 

 

Loved his "jigga what?!" reaction to Emma's "I'm doing it for you."   Love how he's using that accent too...I rewound a couple of times just to hear him say "damn sword" again. 

 

But gotta say, although I was feeling Emma's DarkSwan voice at first, I need it to go away now.

Edited November 12, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[HoodlumSheep]

The only thing that worries me is the way she says don't do it again (as in stop almost getting killed), and we know Killy gets desperate, and that roof scene. :( i don't really want it to go down like that. I'm still hoping he slips. Mainly because I don't want to give haters ammo for it being considered as a way of getting Emma's attention. Hopefully it's not too bad of a scene.

Edited November 12, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

The whiners on Twitter were gleeful about Emma spending a whole season getting berated by Regina and taking on the Darkness to save Regina and everyone. They wouldn't even acknowledge the "everyone" part. But now apparently what Emma is doing for Hook is childish. Hypocrite, much?

Emma's name seems to be on Excalibur in that Sneak Peek.

[Hookian]

I've watched the sneak peek, so I know there's technically visual evidence that this scene exists, but part of me is still in utter shock that they're finally making Hook and Emma a huge part of the plot this half season. After the terribleness of 4B, it's like...someone pinch me, this is amazing.

 

And it's just gonna get better in 5B.

 

This season is literally the Captain Swan season!

The whiners on Twitter were gleeful about Emma spending a whole season getting berated by Regina and taking on the Darkness to save Regina and everyone. They wouldn't even acknowledge the "everyone" part. But now apparently what Emma is doing for Hook is childish. Hypocrite, much?

Emma's name seems to be on Excalibur in that Sneak Peek.

 

I really do not give a crap what the bitter haters are saying. Hopefully after Sunday they stop watching since Ruby and Mulan will be the LGBT couple and then they can go bye bye. 

 

They're always hypocrites and that's never gonna change at this point, I'll just hysterically last at all their meltdowns while I enjoy Once Upon a Captain Swan as they so beautifully put it.

[mjgchick]

I bet guilt is what leads Emma to do that for Hook. He gave up his ship, he gave her his lucky ring and he ends up getting killed probably trying to free Snow. Survivors guilt much?

Could you imagine if Henry was the one in danger? Don't mess with Emma's family. She's scarier than Evil Queen and The Dark One combined.

[BoPeeps]

Hahaha..."jigga what?!"...perfect.

with me, it's when he goes all "bloody hell".

(Emma's DarkSwan Eeyore- tinged voice is indeed grating but I am "Snow" hoping it is to show the difference when she talks to Hook in her Storybrooke house in her Emma voice with twinkling eyes and he realizes "Emma" has won over her scowling, platinum-haired, bun wearing, Dark One self-nemesis.)

[KingOfHearts]

Loved the sneak peek. However, if Emma was doing all of this to save Hook, wouldn't Not!Rumple know? I thought the purpose of repairing Excalibur was to extinguish that sort of intent. That seemed to be what was explained at the end of 5x02. If Arthur/Zelena are responsible for Hook's death, even partially, wouldn't the Dark One want blood?

Edited November 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[shipperx]

With all this talk about character death, I'm now wondering about Regina comment about how there's nothing you can't come back from. I have no desire to rewatch that episode, but it would be interesting to see Emma's reaction to that statement. Death is pretty damn permanent except on this show for this one character.

.

Or Rory on Doctor Who who 'died' every two or the episodes.

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't know. About if Clippy!Rumple and Nimue know what Emma's up to. Emma can tap into what previous DO's are thinking or remember, but I don't know if they can do the same seeing how they talk to each other like they're separate people. I don't know.

As for the people on who are this close to quitting ouat after this sneak peek...i wish they just would. Although I doubt that'd stop them from complaining.

I'm glad CS is finally getting focus (like season 1 Snowing levels of focus). CS barely existed in 4b, and even in 4a they didn't seem to interact all that much. And we've just had 3 episodes in a row with barely any CS (it's just what we do get is higher quality).

Edited November 12, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[PixiePaws1]

Loving how rough and unkempt Killian's appearance is..he looks like a man on the edge...

[Souris]

I don't know that she's spying on him with her telescope as much as she might have an extra sense about him because of whatever went down in Camelot. I'm curious about the whole all of this will be over by morning.

 

Yeah, I think they definitely have some sort of extrasensory connection, whether it's a shared heart or something new. Perhaps Hook's life force is somehow tied to Emma's because of something she did in Camelot to save him.

 

I have to say, I don't appreciate Leanne's latest headline. It's not because I care whether or not they return, but she's been teasing the article, wrote that clickbait, just to tell us what we already knew (that they weren't coming back)? It's terrible journalism.

 

ITA. I generally like her, but that was terrible and raised false hopes. Not cool at all.

[PixiePaws1]

love that the whole sword can't control anyone, makes sense when you think it's a version of the Grail. ....oh...so if Arthur and Zelena remake the sword in Camelot then Merlin is freed.......watch out Zelena.....wonder who would win in that fight?? Yeah..that's going to backfire on Arthur.

[legaleagle53]

As much as I'm not one to gloat (oh, like hell I'm not!), take that, Swan Queen!

[mjgchick]

Selena's so smug because she knows they won't hurt her with Robin's baby. lol

[KingOfHearts]

 

Selena's so smug because she knows they won't hurt her with Robin's baby. lol

Replying in the Morality thread.

[regularlyleaded]

Loved the sneak peek. However, if Emma was doing all of this to save Hook, wouldn't Not!Rumple know? I thought the purpose of repairing Excalibur was to extinguish that sort of intent. That seemed to be what was explained at the end of 5x02.

I think in 5x02 Earworm Rumpel's intentions were for Emma to extinguish light magic using Excalibur and that act would be how she fully embraced the darkness. But Dark Swan hasn't done that yet. She's only reforged Excalibur. Whether she goes through with extinguishing the light remains to be seen, and seeing as everybody (in show) has been assuming, without even putting up an argument or nary a whisper of disbelief, that killing the light is her goal, then that means Dark Swan's goal has nothing to do with extinguishing light. Seriously, every single one of these people, from the get go, have been going around like "Oh Noes! It's Dark Swan! She's the Evilest Evil That Ever Eviled as evidenced by the absence of any actual evil! We're doomed!" *shaking my head* They're not even trying are they. *shaking my head some more*

Also, since Emma hasn't truly embraced the darkness (which earworm Rumpel said she hadn't) then that implies (to me) that she's keeping a part of herself walled off from the darkness, which I would surmise prevents the darkness/earworm Rumpel/Nimue from knowing Emma's true intentions. The Dark Ones in Emma's head - earworm Rumpel and Nimue -- seem like they can control Emma against her will to some extent, but they haven't been shown to be omniscient or able to read her mind.

In regards to Dark Swan's true goal: As far as I understand it, Excalibur seems to have only one purpose (other than slicing and dicing people like all swords can) - to extinguish magic and depending on the intentions of who's wielding it, it can extinguish either dark or light. So unless extinguishing light magic somehow saves Hook's life I don't buy that as Dark Swan's goal.

Jen has said in interviews that Dark Swan's goals are driven by her love for Hook, and that sneak peek has only confirmed that. Also, in show, it's been noted by earworm!Rumpel that Dark Swan hasn't completely embraced the darkness, so Dark Swan's intentions/motivations are still, at their core, normal Emma's motivations and Emma has always been motivated to protect those she loves. And since it was also impressed upon Emma in 5x07, by Merlin, that the greatest threat to everyone she loves is herself as The Dark One then...ya, based on that information, I'm still subscribed to the idea that Dark Swan's trying to kill the darkness even if that means her own death.

 

Also, under the category of other speculative thoughts:  I've decided that in those spoilery set photos where Nimue and the other Dark One's are wandering around apparently marking people, I think they've become corporeal, but because they've essentially been reconstituted like s3B Rumpel, that means the Dark One's are marking the others for death - a life for a life (I think someone else mentioned this theory up thread, as well). But here's the thing - I think Rumpel may have had a hand in making the other Dark Ones corporeal in pursuit of regaining his own DO powers. Right now I'm betting Rumpel tricked Team "You had ONE job" (Snowing + Regina + Robin) into somehow conjuring up Nimue (because Merlin said so) and as a result, they accidentally brought back several of the Dark Ones (probably one for each member of Team "You had ONE job") and now they've been marked - because he who brings Dark Ones back to life pays with their life -- all marked for death except for Rumpel who just conveniently regained his dark one powers. (Rumpel, you marvelous bastard. If you manage to trick TeamTooStupidToLive into this I won't care that they've yo-yo'd you back to being bad, again. The looks on Team Failure when they find out they've been duped by you AGAIN will be worth it to me.)

Edited November 12, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[Shanna Marie]

Love how he's using that accent too...I rewound a couple of times just to hear him say "damn sword" again.

Yeah, he's doing some interesting things with the mutable accent, where he subtly shifts it by context. While Arthur was threatening him, it was that consciously faux Cockney -- the "what, who, me? I'm just some random pirate" act. But when he's going at Emma about "that damn sword," he's spitting out the words with harsh, very British precision, sounding like an officer lashing out at his subordinates. It's similar to the way he talked in the previous episode when he was lambasting Merlin -- a lot of the very precise British diction, with the occasional moment of ironic Cockney. You could practically see the air quotes around the way he said "innit."

 

But I did find it kind of weird that he was acting like Arthur was aiming a gun at his head when he was pointing a sword in his general direction from about three feet away. That really shouldn't have been a "freeze" situation. Once Arthur started moving with that sword, he's committed to a trajectory, and Hook only had to move enough to get out of the strike zone. He should easily have been able to move enough to get his own sword. For that scene to have really made sense, Arthur should have had the sword right on his throat.

[YaddaYadda]

Anyone who thinks Emma has embraced the darkness is wrong. we still don't know what happened in Camelot, and I hope we stop saying that after 5x08.

 

But seriously, she comes face to face with Arthur, and all she does is knock him out. Arthur has been a pain in the ass. Arthur sanded Snowing to do his bidding, and bring him the dagger, so that he could control Emma. Arthur has Merlin holding Emma's loved ones hostage, so that he can get the dagger. Whatever else he has done, what happens to Hook is a result of the things he has done. He is getting ready to kill Hook in the woods.

 

But Emma doesn't kill him. She could've, several times. She didn't.