Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Souris]

I only had a quick look at the new promo but is Snow looking like she is deliberately standing between Killian and Emma...as if preventing Emma from getting to him..

 

If it's the same one with the magic battle, it looks to me like Snow is facing off against Regina -- you can see her dark hair & red dress in the right foreground. I think it could be from this scene.

[Souris]

The latest title made me think labors of Hercules. We know we're meeting Herc and Meg....

[KingOfHearts]

 

The latest title made me think labors of Hercules. We know we're meeting Herc and Meg....

It made me think of Zelena's baby's birth.

Edited November 10, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

Well it should be interesting to see how Steveston is dressed on Friday since they will no longer be filming the 100th episode.

[Souris]

It made me think of Zelena's baby's birth.

 

 

It seems too early for that to me, since 1) they'd have to do a large time jump and 2) they're probably still in the Underworld. 

[kili]

The latest title made me think labors of Hercules.

The latest title made me think of that old joke where a Shakespearean company only has the advertising budget to use one word descriptions for each of the six plays they are performing that summer so they put out the following poster:

Wet      Dry

Miscarriage

3      6       9

 

I don't think we are going to get the lucky with the Zelena pregnancy story, though. You are probably correct about labours of Hercules.

 

Answer:

Wet=Midsummer's Night Dream, Dry=Twelfth Night, Miscarriage=Loves Labours Lost, 3=Much Ado About Nothing, 6=As You Like It, 9=Taming of the Shrew

[RadioGirl27]

The more spoilers and speculation I see for the rest of this half season, the more I hate it.

Killing Hook (twice) and bringing him back (twice) would open a can of worns that would be impossible to close and, in the end, would be the end of the show.

Edited November 10, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[InsertWordHere]

I don't know if he's going to die twice. I think he's been marked for death since whatever happened in Camelot and Emma's just been doing everything she can to extend his time. She's going to fail and he'll have to go the Underworld anyway, but if there's no body left behind, it won't be a real death.

[Hookian]

I don't know if he's going to die twice. I think he's been marked for death since whatever happened in Camelot and Emma's just been doing everything she can to extend his time. She's going to fail and he'll have to go the Underworld anyway, but if there's no body left behind, it won't be a real death.

 

Exactly and that's their way out of the wormhole.

 

The next couple to parallel Emma and Killian will be Hercules and Megara and it wouldn't surprise me if Hercules and Emma meet up while in the UW trying to save their loved one.

[PixiePaws1]

It doesn't make sense to me. Why would he summon her for that?

I think something else has happened to him in SB in which he should have died. He realizes he doesn't have his ring and suspects Emma. He calls her for answers then either slips or jumps....or he's seen or heard something in the globe. Either way it isn't about getting her attention it is about getting answers...my take on it. Edited November 10, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[PixiePaws1]

some more thoughts. .

In the new promo...it looks like all of the SB crew are tied to trees.. Although Charming looks to have his left arm free (maybe just tied loosely). Lance is standing there like a stunned mullet so I guess he's been sanded or frozen. I guess Emma has come to free them but Arthur sets Merlin on her while he and Zelena poof out (wonder how long before she screws him over?? )

like many others I have been assuming (in my case...hoping desperately) that Emma is playing the long con against the Darkness. Remembering that the DO is selfish and add that to Emma's desperate need to not lose anyone else she loves plus her history of loss ...you get a powerful being who may go a smidge insane with grief if faced with losing the man she loves especially when he'd already died in front of her in Isaac's AU.

If she has used powerful Darkest of the Dark magic to keep Killian alive and snuffing out the Darkness means she loses him, then.....!

What I can't fit in is the comment made way back that she went dark because of what she thought the SB crew did.

Edited November 10, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[YaddaYadda]

like many others I have been assuming (in my case...hoping desperately) that Emma is playing the long con against the Darkness. Remembering that the DO is selfish and add that to Emma's desperate need to not lose anyone else she loves plus her history of loss ...you get a powerful being who may go a smidge insane with grief if faced with losing the man she loves especially when he'd already died in front of her in Isaac's AU.

If she has used powerful Darkest of the Dark magic to keep Killian alive and snuffing out the Darkness means she loses him, then.....!

What I can't fit in is the comment made way back that she went dark because of what she thought the SB crew did.

 

Maybe it's anger directed at them because they refused to help her, or wouldn't help her when whatever happened to Hook happened.

 

Regina begged Emma to save Robin, she had her use dark magic to do this, something for which Emma paid a pretty steep price. Hook didn't want her to do it, he said it point blank, and Snow objected weakly to it, and David said nothing.

 

But if the shoe was on the other foot, and Emma needs help to bring Hook back, and they're about to break the rules of magic, I can see Regina not wanting to do it. I can see Snowing objecting to it. I don't think it's something Emma will easily forget, and yeah, she would take it as something they did to her (as much as something they did to him). I think this is where Nimue's line comes into play. Emma with her darkness might interpret this as the people she loves, trying to take something she loves away from her.

[FierceAfroChick]

Seems like Adam Croasdell only filmed one day and hasn't mentioned filming again.  So Papa Hook is around for just the one ep?

[RadioGirl27]

Seems like Adam Croasdell only filmed one day and hasn't mentioned filming again.  So Papa Hook is around for just the one ep?

Of course, people thinking he was going to be there for more than one or two scenes were deluding themselves.

[Rumsy4]

But if the shoe was on the other foot, and Emma needs help to bring Hook back, and they're about to break the rules of magic, I can see Regina not wanting to do it. I can see Snowing objecting to it. I don't think it's something Emma will easily forget, and yeah, she would take it as something they did to her (as much as something they did to him). I think this is where Nimue's line comes into play. Emma with her darkness might interpret this as the people she loves, trying to take something she loves away from her.

Oh, totally! Emma's parents have never advocated for Hook the way Hook has done for them. I don't think any of them (except Henry) even realize how important he is to Emma. Emma is definitely going to feel betrayed and angry. She constantly keeps making sacrifices for other people. But these people don't seem to care as much about her happiness. Besides, Snow has always been obsessed with her goodness and savior status than anything else, and I don't think either she or Charming have gotten past Hook's pirate status.

Of course, people thinking he was going to be there for more than one or two scenes were deluding themselves.

Come, on! This constant putting down of people who speculate anything positive is getting old. Just because we haven't seen AC film again doesn't mean he's not going to film in the future. Edited November 10, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe it's anger directed at them because they refused to help her, or wouldn't help her when whatever happened to Hook happened.

 

Regina begged Emma to save Robin, she had her use dark magic to do this, something for which Emma paid a pretty steep price. Hook didn't want her to do it, he said it point blank, and Snow objected weakly to it, and David said nothing.

 

But if the shoe was on the other foot, and Emma needs help to bring Hook back, and they're about to break the rules of magic, I can see Regina not wanting to do it. I can see Snowing objecting to it. I don't think it's something Emma will easily forget, and yeah, she would take it as something they did to her (as much as something they did to him). I think this is where Nimue's line comes into play. Emma with her darkness might interpret this as the people she loves, trying to take something she loves away from her.

 

I forgot to add...

 

There's also that dialogue when Emma tells Happy if something has your name on it, you should hold on to it.

 

I think Emma still has the dagger, but she could lose it when she battles Merlin. What if she gets commanded to stand down, and not help him? Something happened for her to say something like that. When she gave Regina the dagger, she did so willingly. And she may not have liked being commanded, and she voiced it back in 5x02.

 

She said she gave the dagger to Regina to use it to protect her. Maybe this is an instance Regina feels Emma needs to be protected, especially after the display of magic in her battle against Merlin.

 

I wonder if the dagger and Excalibur negate each other in terms of commands. Emma has what looks like a broken Excalibur.

 

Of course, people thinking he was going to be there for more than one or two scenes were deluding themselves.

 

Are people allowed to have fun with this, or are we all supposed to fall into this whole, no it will never happen, this show sucks, and whatever else. I don't think any of us have any illusions about this show, but I think we are enjoying ourselves. And most speculation has been wrong, and we're still enjoying ourselves.

 

Oh, totally! Emma's parents have never advocated for Hook the way Hook has done for them. I don't think any of them (except Henry) even realize how important he is to Emma. Emma is definitely going to feel betrayed and angry. She constantly keeps making sacrifices for other people. But these people don't seem to care as much about her happiness. Besides, Snow has always been obsessed with her goodness and savior status than anything else, and I don't think either she or Charming have gotten past Hook's pirate status.

 

Yeah, I don't they realize how big a role he has played, and the positive force he has been in Emma's life. I think they've gotten over the whole pirate thing, and I think they know, and understand how much those two love each other. But if they intervene while she wants to save him, then I can see why she might be angry, even if they make sense.

[Shanna Marie]

Has Storybrooke Dark Emma said anything more to or about her parents after that first return scene? I've been wondering if maybe she was just distancing them by doing that, the way she also deliberately distanced Hook with the weird date and possibly even distanced Henry by leaving that dreamcatcher to be found.

 

Regina seems to have done something, but it's really hard to tell with the Charmings since they seem to be mutually ignoring each other. Other than setting up a situation to help Henry with Violet and approaching Hook on the "date" in order to get his sword to wake Rumple, she seems to prefer staying away from her loved ones. That could be because she's angry, or it could be because she's protecting them.

[YaddaYadda]

Has Storybrooke Dark Emma said anything more to or about her parents after that first return scene? I've been wondering if maybe she was just distancing them by doing that, the way she also deliberately distanced Hook with the weird date and possibly even distanced Henry by leaving that dreamcatcher to be found.

 

Regina seems to have done something, but it's really hard to tell with the Charmings since they seem to be mutually ignoring each other. Other than setting up a situation to help Henry with Violet and approaching Hook on the "date" in order to get his sword to wake Rumple, she seems to prefer staying away from her loved ones. That could be because she's angry, or it could be because she's protecting them.

 

I'm not sure that Emma has embraced the darkness completely. When she was talking to Merlin, she said that the talking head was gone, but she had done something to break Henry's heart. I guess this is the worst thing she had done thus far. 

 

And in Storybrooke, she said that she thought the talking head would be completely gone once she embraced the darkness.

 

So I guess my problem is what does embracing the darkness means? Is it going around and crushing people's hearts? Doing dark magic from which you can't return? Because as far as we know, she has done none of that, and the things she did, while wrong, she felt she didn't really have a choice.

 

If Regina and Snowing are trying to stop her from breaking the rules of magic, which could send her spiraling down, I personally, can't really fault them for that for not wanting her to go there. 

 

I didn't watch Once in Wonderland, but I think I remember reading Jafar breaking the rules of magic? Can someone explain how that went, and what the consequences of that were?

[mjgchick]

Yeah the only reason why Emma talked to Henry was because she felt guilty about the Violet stuff and wanted to fix it. Either way why did the writers not make Snowing go up to their daughter. If my kid told me that i fucked up and I don't know what I did I'd go to them to the point I've annoyed them so they can blurt it out.

 

I thought embracing the Darkness was you taking someones life for bad reasons? This show seems to keep retconning things to fit with the plot.

Edited November 10, 2015 by mjgchick

[Shanna Marie]

I didn't watch Once in Wonderland, but I think I remember reading Jafar breaking the rules of magic? Can someone explain how that went, and what the consequences of that were?

In Wonderland, the rules of magic that were considered unbreakable were making someone love you, bringing the dead back to life, and rewriting the past. The way for Jafar to break these rules was to do a pretty complicated ritual that took him centuries to pull together. I forgot what all it involved, but he had to take power from other magic users and get a certain number of genies. Once he did the spell, it became possible to break the previously unbreakable magical rules. He was able to force people to love him and brought back the dead. I don't remember what he did about rewriting the past.

 

ETA -- in that show, these rules weren't just of the guideline variety with bad consequences if you break them. They were physically impossible to break until this ritual was performed, and then when the good guys were able to beat him, the spell was broken, so the rules went back to being impossible. So it wasn't like what seems to be going on here, where it's a very bad idea to do whatever it is Emma's going to have to do. It just couldn't be done, period. That's why I don't think Hook is going to be ordinary dead, like stabbed or something.

 

Though they might tell us that Emma's super-powered Dark One status gives her the power that it took Jafar all that time to amass.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Shanna Marie

[Souris]

I just rewatched Nimue (I liked it even better the second time around). The arguments Nimue used to try and persuade Emma to kill Merlin seem significant. To paraphrase, she says that if a loved one tries to hold you back from being what you are, you need to not listen to them and kill them even if you love them. I think that's pretty much what Emma does when it comes to Hook in Camelot.

 

I was thinking more about this and the fairy tale "The Queen and the Murderer" that JMo has referenced several times, and I think it will happen, but in SB. I think when Emma tethers Hook to Excalibur and he becomes a Dark One, too, he goes REALLY Dark. Something allows Nimue and the other Dark Ones to run amok in SB, and I think it's something that Hook does. Maybe Dark Hook starts to carry out Nimue's plan to destroy the light. So Emma will be forced to kill him to save everyone else in SB -- just like Buffy had to kill Angel. In doing so, she destroys the Dark One for good, thus saving herself. So in trying to make Hook immortal and keep him with her, she ends up bringing about his death.

[YaddaYadda]

I think when Emma tethers Hook to Excalibur and he becomes a Dark One, too, he goes REALLY Dark.

Okay, I sort of having a bit of a problem with this. 

 

It's not the object that makes you evil or good, it's the action. Nimue was tethered to nothing when she crushed Vortigan's heart, and Merlin is tethered to the sword, but if Arthur doesn't command him to shut up, or whatever else, then the sword has no influence over him. The dagger and the sword have influence over a person only if they are being commanded.

 

So Hook going all cray cray makes very little sense if he isn't being commanded. Obviously, we don't know what the whole sword will do, and what it will be like to have two people tethered to it.

 

I'm just having a problem that being tethered to it makes someone the biggest villain and ever villained when the writing hasn't really shown us that?

Edited November 10, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Souris]

Okay, I sort of having a bit of a problem with this. 

 

I'm just having a problem that being tethered to it makes someone the biggest villain and ever villained when the writing hasn't really shown us that?

 

It's not the tethering so much as the fact that it will cause him to become a Dark One. I think what Emma does will end up cutting the light out of him. I don't know if that is part of her plan to keep him Dark & with her -- I hope not, because that would be truly shitty of her -- or if it's accidental.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Souris

[HoodlumSheep]

In Wonderland, the rules of magic that were considered unbreakable were making someone love you, bringing the dead back to life, and rewriting the past. The way for Jafar to break these rules was to do a pretty complicated ritual that took him centuries to pull together. I forgot what all it involved, but he had to take power from other magic users and get a certain number of genies. Once he did the spell, it became possible to break the previously unbreakable magical rules. He was able to force people to love him and brought back the dead. I don't remember what he did about rewriting the past.

ETA -- in that show, these rules weren't just of the guideline variety with bad consequences if you break them. They were physically impossible to break until this ritual was performed, and then when the good guys were able to beat him, the spell was broken, so the rules went back to being impossible. So it wasn't like what seems to be going on here, where it's a very bad idea to do whatever it is Emma's going to have to do. It just couldn't be done, period. That's why I don't think Hook is going to be ordinary dead, like stabbed or something.

Though they might tell us that Emma's super-powered Dark One status gives her the power that it took Jafar all that time to amass.

Jafar didn't use it to change anything from the past. He wanted it mostly for the no-rules, anything goes, unlimited magic power. Basically what Jafar from the cartoon wanted. He needed 3 genies (so like how Zelena needed 3 things) and he needed a second magic-user of considerable skill (Amara) to perform the ritual.

And yes. Wonderland had a better handle on showing consequences for using magic than Once does.

I can see the Nevengers not letting Emma save Hook if that's what happens.

[Mathius]

But that doesn't match what Colin has been seen filming prior to his disappearance.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Mathius

[kili]

I think when Emma tethers Hook to Excalibur and he becomes a Dark One, too, he goes REALLY Dark. Something allows Nimue and the other Dark Ones to run amok in SB, and I think it's something that Hook does.

So Hook's reward for fighting the hardest for Emma and trying to prevent her from going Dark is to go completely Dark himself and nearly destroy SB? Sounds like this show.

 

I really hope this does not happen because who will want to go save Hook when he slips into super-darkness at the drop of a hat? He should stay in hell if his redemption arc can so easily and drastically be reversed. Emma was able to stay good for a long time despite all she had to face, but he goes dark in a matter of moments? It's a Swan Queeners dream come true.

[mjgchick]

I don't think Hook goes dark. Doesn't he do something to save Emma from the darkness? Other wise why would her parents and Regina help Emma to go save him? The only former villain her parents gives a fuck about is Regina. They only seem to like Hook because he makes Emma happy and nothing more.

[shipperx]

It made me think of Zelena's baby's birth.

Probably both. Zelena baby and Herc.

Edited November 10, 2015 by shipperx

[Souris]

But that doesn't match what Colin has been seen filming prior to his disappearance.

 

Are you talking about my theory? Because I think it completely matches -- he's in all black, his jewelry is all black, his hair is parted on the opposite side. He's fighting Rumple, who is now a hero. All the light has gone out of Hook. I'm not sure how anybody can see all the costuming cues and not think he's clearly Dark.

 

So Hook's reward for fighting the hardest for Emma and trying to prevent her from going Dark is to go completely Dark himself and nearly destroy SB? Sounds like this show.

 

I really hope this does not happen because who will want to go save Hook when he slips into super-darkness at the drop of a hat? He should stay in hell if his redemption arc can so easily and drastically be reversed. Emma was able to stay good for a long time despite all she had to face, but he goes dark in a matter of moments? It's a Swan Queeners dream come true.

 

Exactly. And it's very much like this show. They're going to give SQ something they can twist & hold onto. Though I suspect it's going to be more that all the light is sucked from him, rather than him CHOOSING to go full Dark.

 

People think Hook is going to sacrifice himself to save Emma from the Darkness, but I think Emma is going to save herself. And killing him is how she will do that, to save both herself and everyone else.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Souris

[Mathius]

Are you talking about my theory? Because I think it completely matches -- he's in all black, his jewelry is all black, his hair is parted on the opposite side. He's fighting Rumple, who is now a hero. All the light has gone out of Hook. I'm not sure how anybody can see all the costuming cues and not think he's clearly Dark.

 

No, I mean he's been seen working with the others in group scenes for the finale: one with all the heroes who later go to the Underworld to save him, and one with Regina at her vault (paralleling him with her in the flashback, most likely).  Yes, he's clearly Dark, but I said before that Dark /=/ Evil, and with Nimue and the other DOs around for the finale, Dark Hook as the big enemy would be redundant.  Also, regarding the fight with Rumple, Rumple's idea of "heroism" most likely includes killing him and/or Emma, so I wouldn't put that fight all on Hook.

 

People think Hook is going to sacrifice himself to save Emma from the Darkness, but I think Emma is going to save herself. And killing him is how she will do that, to save both herself and everyone else.

 

I won't count out the possibility that she might kill him, but it's more likely that will be his sacrifice, he'll still be on the good side and allow her to kill him if that means her freedom and everyone else's safety.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

It's not the tethering so much as the fact that it will cause him to become a Dark One. I think what Emma does will end up cutting the light out of him. I don't know if that is part of her plan to keep him Dark & with her -- I hope not, because that would be truly shitty of her -- or if it's accidental.

I don't think she wants him to be dark with her. 

 

But I do think she bound them together in Camelot, and that's what will likely backfire in Storybrooke. I think that's the reason she knows he's in trouble with Arthur, or showed up without him summoning her. 

[Souris]

No, I mean he's been seen working with the others in group scenes for the finale: one with all the heroes who later go to the Underworld to save him, and one with Regina at her vault (paralleling him with her in the flashback, most likely).  Yes, he's clearly Dark, but I said before that Dark /=/ Evil, and with Nimue and the other DOs around for the finale, Dark Hook as the big enemy would be redundant.  Also, regarding the fight with Rumple, Rumple's idea of "heroism" most likely includes killing him and/or Emma, so I wouldn't put that fight all on Hook.

 

There was a Hook/Regina scene filmed for the finale, but it wasn't at her vault. It was during Steveston filming, and we don't have any details about it other than it was filmed. The vault mention was from 5x12 filming, and it turned out to be suspect -- they were filming at a cemetery, but that wasn't the cemetery where Regina's vault is.

 

Colin filmed another scene during that Steveston filming, but nobody saw what it was (or they haven't spoiled it). There were rumors it was with Emma, but just rumors, nothing concrete. And even if he filmed WITH the group, that doesn't mean they were working together.

[Rumsy4]

But I do think she bound them together in Camelot, and that's what will likely backfire in Storybrooke. I think that's the reason she knows he's in trouble with Arthur, or showed up without him summoning her. 

 

Heh--I liked the way she slaps Arthur away from Hook in the promo. I can't WAIT for this episode to air!!

[KingOfHearts]

Cruella is apparently back.

Give us Ingrid! She's the only missing piece now.

Edited November 10, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

Again, if this is supposed to be Hell, Ingrid would not be there.

[KingOfHearts]

Again, if this is supposed to be Hell, Ingrid would not be there.

Except this isn't hell. It's the Underworld. Those are two completely different concepts. If you want to say Ingrid did less bad things or redeemed herself at the end, that opens a can of worms for messy morality. Edited November 10, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

But the part of the Underworld the characters in seems to be based around the Hell concept, with unrepentant villains only.  Ingrid would stick out like a sore thumb in the company of people like Cora, Pan, Cruella and the Blind Witch.

 

Also, Elizabeth Mitchell is a regular now on Crossing Lines, currently filming its third season.  Her availability is doubtful.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Mathius

[InsertWordHere]

I don't know what's going to happen and how dark Hook will go, but I'm pretty sure that in the fight with Gold, Hook's going to be the bad guy and the bully. I have no evidence to back it up, it's just a reflection of my level of confidence in this show. 

[OnceUponAJen]

Except this isn't hell. It's the Underworld. Those are two completely different concepts. If you want to say Ingrid did less bad things or redeemed herself at the end, that opens a can of worms for messy morality.

Exactly! I believe in Greek mythology there was only Mt. Olympus where the gods dwelled, and the Underworld was for the dead.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know what's going to happen and how dark Hook will go, but I'm pretty sure that in the fight with Gold, Hook's going to be the bad guy and the bully. I have no evidence to back it up, it's just a reflection of my level of confidence in this show. 

 

I think he is. I mean Rumple is supposed to have turned into a hero.

 

There's one thing though that has me wondering. The orb. I keep going back to the orb.

 

Rumple is holding the orb, in what seems to be Regina's vault, and he looks like he knows exactly what it is. Then Hook has it. I wonder if Rumple doesn't know exactly what it is. I'm inclined to think he does.

 

 

Exactly! I believe in Greek mythology there was only Mt. Olympus where the gods dwelled, and the Underworld was for the dead.

 

Aren't there 3 levels to that? Where the good souls go, where people are sort of stuck in limbo, and where worst of the worst go? 

[Mathius]

Yes, we have Elysian (for heroes), Erebus (for normal people), and Tartarus (for villains).  I believe we're dealing with Tartarus here.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

Aren't there 3 levels to that? Where the good souls go, where people are sort of stuck in limbo, and where worst of the worst go?

If there are multiple sections of the Underworld, they could always visit the non-hellish sections at some point. But we know so little at this point...

[InsertWordHere]

I think it's Tartarus in episode 100. If they stay there for longer than Episode 100, they'll probably go to the normal underworld. 

[Mathius]

Again, Elizabeth Mitchell is busy with another show, so I believe it's a moot point anyway.

 

Personally, I actually don't want to see Ingrid again.  She had a perfect send-off and anything more would ruin that.

 

I think he is. I mean Rumple is supposed to have turned into a hero.

 

Key word is SUPPOSED TO.  I think we've been burned by Rumple too many times to start trusting him now.  His last scene and what he said to Emma strikes me as someone making a threat, that he considers himself the best hero in Storybrooke because he's willing to put Emma down rather than attempt to save her.  I think that will be why Hook is fighting him.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Mathius

[OnceUponAJen]

Aren't there 3 levels to that? Where the good souls go, where people are sort of stuck in limbo, and where worst of the worst go?

There are. The Underworld is considered to be under the earth, which makes most people think of hell, even though good souls were said to go there too. I wonder if the show will make that distinction at all?

[LizaD]

Woohoo Cruella! I want Pan and Cruella scenes.

 

If Merlin is commanded to do something evil to corrupt his HG powers, would that start a new fresh line of DO numero 2 ? For all we know Merlin lets Hook stab him ala Rump/Zoso. And Emma's goal of reuniting Excalibur is to cure them both. Or Hook is dying so she turns him into DO 2 to make him immortal. That's the awful thing she did, making him the new DO to keep him alive. She could've stabbed Merlin herself and the leaked picture is her transferring the darkness to him cause she's got her own dose already.

 

Yeah yeah there's the no name thing on Excalibur yet but its this show. Emma could've magic'ed it so that it doesn't appear till whenever its convenient for the twist. That's where the title of Birth comes from. It's the birth of a new line of DOs. Then EK saying Hook and Merlin are connected would fit.

 

This all leads to Emma freeing the rest of the DOs' souls to be separated from her and Hook sacrifices himself to get rid of them. I think Nimue and the rest are marking the people in town because technically they've cheated the Underworld from their souls and the mark is so that those people would be taken to the Underworld instead of them.

Edited November 10, 2015 by LizaD

[KingOfHearts]

There are. The Underworld is considered to be under the earth, which makes most people think of hell, even though good souls were said to go there too. I wonder if the show will make that distinction at all?

The show will have to explain this clearly, because most viewers will equate the Underworld to the Christian version of hell. Hades is often mistaken for the devil as well, due to western culture. If Once was doing straight-up hell, they could be missing many creative opportunities. I'm a bit concerned because the afterlife and A&E sounds like a dangerous combo. St. Woegina would probably be the greeter at the pearly gates.

Edited November 10, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder - everyone is entitled to their opinion. You don't have to agree with it. But you also need to be civil about it, and follow The Social Contract.

 

This topic is posting at a fast and furious pace these days. Please be polite to each other. If you are not, further steps may include warnings, suspensions, or topic locking.

[Mari]

. I think Nimue and the rest are marking the people in town because technically they've cheated the Underworld from their souls and the mark is so that those people would be taken to the Underworld instead of them.

That is one creepy idea--or, at least, it should be. (So was shattered sight, so . . )

Based on some of your earlier predictions, you have an almost freakish, in the best possible way, track record of being close to what they're planning.

I'm not looking forward to Herc and Meg (unpopular, I know. Can't post it there because spoilers.), but this could make theUnderworld thing interesting.

[YaddaYadda]

Key word is SUPPOSED TO.  I think we've been burned by Rumple too many times to start trusting him now.  His last scene and what he said to Emma strikes me as someone making a threat, that he considers himself the best hero in Storybrooke because he's willing to put Emma down rather than attempt to save her.  I think that will be why Hook is fighting him.

 

What makes me wonder is that Rumple is in on this supposed rescue mission. I don't know if he has an ulterior motive like trying to find Neal, and bring him too, or if he's just there because he is needed. 

 

It really makes me wonder what went down between Hook and him, if this mission has nothing to do with his own motives.