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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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I don't know why Hook would be resisting her advances if she hadn't gone full dark. And I'm not sure Regina IS allowing Henry near Emma -- she may not know, and that's why she's pissed afterward and lecturing Emma.

 

About this, it could be the first time Hook seems her like that which I'm thinking could be jarring. 

 

I think Regina would know if Emma has gone full on Dark. People with magic can apparently sense the shift in it.  Emma when she was standing there with the dagger before the goop enveloped Regina sensed the darkness. And Regina has also had moments like that.

 

If Emma has gone full on "dark" I don't think she would actually exist anymore, period. For me, it means that the Dark One has taken over her completely, like it was about to take over Rumple completely if the Apprentice hadn't pulled it out of him.

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Jen keeps talking about when Emma gives into the darkness completely, so to me that means that she goes Full Dark at some point. And I have to believe she returns to herself at some point (hopefully soon), or else there's just no hope.

 

The new title spoiler seems to be Merida-centric. The bear is definitely from Brave -- although it's also traditionally tied to Arthur, since his name is a derivative of the Celtic word for bear.

Edited by Souris
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New title spoiler.

So this is very obviously about Merida.  

 

So Mr. Gold is apparently there. I'm thinking this is the episode that will have the Belle/Merida adventure in it especially since Gold seems to have been "found"?

 

Last year 4x06, Family Business was the Belle/Anna adventure and this year, it might be the Merida/Belle adventure. 

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So episode 6 sounds like a Merida episode. Yay! What are the chances of the Rumple being cause behind the "bear?" I wonder if he'll be the "witch" from the movie. Or maybe he doubles as the bad bear.

And I'm just guessing about the Rumple stuff because he's always connected to everything bad that's ever happened. And previous spoilers make me think he's involved somehow.

Or maybe we'll get lucky and he has no connection with Merida. :P

I agree that this is probably the Belle/Merida buddy adventure episode.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Yay! An episode focussed on a character we will never see beyond this season, paired with Belle! :-p Joking aside, it might be a good episode. I have a better feeling about the flashbacks for this arc compared to the QoD stuff.

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^ that's the first thing that popped into my head when we first got spoilers of Rumple and Merida showing up in the same scenes. He's probably the "witch" from Brave.

So if they're closely following the pattern from 4a...episode 6 is Belle/Merida buddy adventure, episode 7 will be a merlin/camelot flashback (or would it be an Emma flashback because she seems to be the villain of the season?--it'll probably be a camelot flashback), episode 8 will be 2 hours of boringness mixed with ickiness and Hook getting screwed over by Rumple somehow...

I'm having a hard time figuring out where in the story they're going to end stuff if 5a is just 10 episodes. I think they'd be dumb to have the Dark Swan end at the midseason. For it being such a big deal(Emma becoming the dark one), I feel like it should last at least to mid season of 5b.

Either way, based on spoilers I have a good feeling about 5a. I feel like it'll be better than 4b at least.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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And in Storybrooke, she's dressed all in black even though she hasn't gone full on dark. If she had gone full on dark already, I don't think Regina would allow her to be anywhere near Henry

 

In the past, Regina hasn't kept Henry away from evil people. She actively endorsed his plan to hang around Rumple to uncover the secrets of how "Villians can get their happy ending" (there was no reason to hang around him and learn his secrets if he wasn't evil).  Plus, Henry has lived in her house during most of which she has been evil herself (killing the huntsman, arranging to have Katherine killed to frame Snow, baking a pastry to kill his biological mother).  What does she think Emma is going to do that Rumple or she herself hasn't done? There isn't much left in the pantheon of evilness.

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And in Storybrooke, she's dressed all in black even though she hasn't gone full on dark. If she had gone full on dark already, I don't think Regina would allow her to be anywhere near Henry

So if black clothing doesn't mean full dark, does that mean she needs more cleavage?

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I`m actually cautiously optimistic about the Merida stuff. I really liked the frozen arc, so I`m hoping that I will like her stuff too. Recent Disney seems to be sticking closer to its own cannon, which means the writers cant screw around with it too much. 

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In the past, Regina hasn't kept Henry away from evil people. She actively endorsed his plan to hang around Rumple to uncover the secrets of how "Villians can get their happy ending" (there was no reason to hang around him and learn his secrets if he wasn't evil).

 

Regina letting Henry hang out with his grandpa served her purpose. There was something in it for her. Plus no one knew he was lying about the dagger yet.

 

So if black clothing doesn't mean full dark, does that mean she needs more cleavage?

Would it surprise you if it ended up being just that?

 

I just don't think it's as easy as we're making it out to be. She goes from grey to pure white for at least 2 episodes. So is she pulled back into the light when her family shows up and she sees how much everyone really cares about her? 

 

Well, 25 days to go!

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I still shocked by what I just saw in the CS tag it seems that Lana said seconds ago that she pretty sure that Regina will the only one to save Emma it it is Truth they just loss me before the premiere!

I will just watched the pretty CS gift and YouTube and if there is one or two Showing scene.

Why bother if I already knows the twist and it disgusting me!!

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I still shocked by what I just saw in the CS tag it seems that Lana said seconds ago that she pretty sure that Regina will the only one to save Emma it it is Truth they just loss me before the premiere!

 

Link please!  Are there links to what she said? Is there an article or an interview that was just published about this or is it just some speculation that has gone out of hand?

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Sounds like Lana had a Q and A on her Twitter account and said she's going to save Emma and they'll bond. I don't follow the cast on Twitter so I don't know if it's true or not. It's going to blow if Emma isn't saved by her parents or herself.

I love how the spoilers have the fandom so bipolar.

Edited by mjgchick
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I scrolled through her Q&A quick, and the only "spoilers" she hinted towards were: Regina wearing a lot of red (so I'm guessing the color symbolism is pretty intentional), there will be a scene with Regina reacting to Henry's girlfriend, and one of Lana's favorite Season 5A scenes is with Jennifer.

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I scrolled through her Q&A quick, and the only "spoilers" she hinted towards were: Regina wearing a lot of red (so I'm guessing the color symbolism is pretty intentional)

 

 

Ok, so let me drop this in here then since we're talking about Regina wearing a lot of RED and how she's the new "Savior" for the season or whatever...

 

Emma is wearing a white cloak in 5x04 and 5x05. 

 

Snow wore a white cloak on her honeymoon, she was wearing it when she returned from the palace and was accosted by Maleficent. She wore the same white cloak a few days later when Maleficent informed Snow she was pregnant with the demon's seed.

 

Aurora wore a white cloak in 3x12. Aurora was pregnant wearing her white cloak.

 

I know Regina farted out light magic while wearing her red dress, but is costume symbolism that strong on this show? Villains wear black and show cleavage. Saviors apparently wear red and married, pregnant women wear white?

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Well, I checked it seems she had a answered in questions and ask about if Regina will be the one saving Emma and responded with (its a good guess) So, I will taking with a grain of salt. She probably wanted pleases hers fans.

But, the only thing that will really turn me off the show is Regina be the new savior and the be the only person saving Emma.

I'm OK with Regina helping but Emma saving herself or Snowing+Hook is the only acceptable ending for this arc. Maybe Elsa is coming back to save the day!!

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Link please!  Are there links to what she said? Is there an article or an interview that was just published about this or is it just some speculation that has gone out of hand?

 

Here is a link to that tweet and question. It's not really specific.

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I wonder what's the obsession with "saving Emma?" That's got to be the least interesting part of the whole shebang. It's like watching any Disney cartoon and being obsessed over whether or not there's a happy ending. They're probably going to pull a reverse Buffy and share the "darkness" with the entire world. Merlin's an idiot and/or evil for concentrating it in 1 poor schmuck.

 

 

spoilers" she hinted towards were: Regina wearing a lot of red (so I'm guessing the color symbolism is pretty intentional)

I have to admit I thought it was pretty silly that this thread was honing in on the color thing but there you have it. Humble pie all around?

 

 

hat's the first thing that popped into my head when we first got spoilers of Rumple and Merida showing up in the same scenes. He's probably the "witch" from Brave.

But didn't they say the story they're telling with Merida picks up after the movie? I guess they could go back and revisit the movie plot and still have it be "after." My first thought was Merida's an ex-DO since Emma shares scenes with them too no? It's the DOs Anonymous club. She probably beat the curse for herself but not the curse itself so it passed on to some other person. So you have Merida being "brave" vs Rump the coward and Emma in the middle.

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Okay, there's something bugging me about the pictures of Merida that I know is silly but that I have to get off my chest. They have the dress so that an underdress kind of thing is poking up through her dress at the seams and at her elbows, like in the movie. But in the movie, she tore her too-tight special-occasion dress so she could move enough to shoot. Yes, that's become her iconic look, but it was a torn dress. She wouldn't be running around in a torn dress after the events of the movie. Now that her parents have learned to accept her as she is and wouldn't be making her wear something her mother picked out for her to fit her role as the perfect daughter who's ready for marriage, she'd wear something of her choice, something she could move in. She hated that dress, which was why she tore it. I've noticed the same thing in the patterns for the Halloween costume and in the unauthorized "heroic Scottish lady archer" costume pattern. I can kind of see it for a costume, as you might be portraying that iconic look of Merida as she was in the movie, but on this show, where it picks up after the movie, it makes no sense for her to still be wearing the exact same outfit she wore in the movie. Every time I see the pictures of the Once Upon a Time Merida, this bugs me to the point I don't even analyze whether they got the hair right (though at least it does look properly wild and frizzy instead of being perfectly smooth curls).

 

Now we can go back to analyzing who gets to save Emma or if they're going to permanently turn Emma into a villain.

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It makes sense when one remembers that an important function of this show is to promote other Disney brands and that is how Disney has chosen to present the main character of the Brave brand. They're just being good corporate citizens. The kids watching the show will also expect to see featured Disney characters in the familiar costumes.

Edited by orza
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So, she saves herself? Or she is not saved and stays dark?

 

Maybe it will be like Murder on the Orient Express....

 

Everyone in town will stab Emma with the dagger and the darkness will be spread to them all....and since the darkness will be so dissipated, they will just do mini-evil things like cheat at golf or slaughter villages instead of doing the uber-evil things like tell secrets and trip people.

Edited by kili
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I'm perfectly fine with Emma saving herself if it comes down to it. I'm in the belief that she'll be the Dark Swan at least until at mid-5b. Having her become the evilest of evils only to have it reversed in 10 episodes would be a pretty dumb move in my opinion.

But, if she doesn't manage to save herself, then I'd prefer it being Hook or snowing or a group effort (as long as Regina does not hog all the glory).

Now that it's been pointed out that Merida is walking around in a ripped dress for pretty much no reason except for brand recognition, it's going to bug me now. I can't un-see it.

Thanks a lot, Shanna Marie!!!

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Does anyone get the feeling that they are going to have Emma as the Dark One till the very last episode? They can use the dagger as a way to make Emma do bad things with the next villain. Maybe the Shadow man from Princess and the frog (This is me giving A&E ideas because I'm desperate to have Tiana and Naveen on OUAT.) comes to Storybrook and uses Emma to do damage because he's not as strong as her even if he's like some voodoo God. Or get Naveen Andrews to reprise his role as Jafar to use Emma and the dagger to do his bidding.

Yay to more Emma and Rumple scenes. I wonder if he'll try to kill her to get his powers back.

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I thought the way Adam phrased his sentence was interesting. It's probably a combination of things that include everyone and Emma herself. Emma can't be saved if she doesn't wanna be saved. 

 

I think Dark Swan is likely the whole season or at least 19 episodes before they start really setting up season 6. I also think it would be kind of ridiculous to have her be the Dark One for 10 episodes before Emma Swan is brought back to herself. If you're gonna do it, don't half ass it.

 

I know they're coming back on episode 100, and if they're still on Dark Swan and don't want it to be all dark and gloomy because they want to celebrate the show as a goodness wins over evil and whatever other themes the show has going, they can fastforward the timeline to Emma not being the Dark One anymore, her being saved so that we see the end result before we know how it happened. Or they can have Dark Swan have a whole bunch of awesome dreams of what her life would be like just as Emma Swan with the things she wants before she wakes up and decides that she needs to save herself.

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If you're gonna do it, don't half ass it.

 

Neverland. The Missing Year. The "Queens of Darkness." This show. These writers.

 

Frankly, I read nothing into Adam's comments. Seems to me he's just giving a variation on his pre-season boilerplate 'watch the show and see what happens. #nospoilers' 

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Or they can have Dark Swan have a whole bunch of awesome dreams of what her life would be like just as Emma Swan with the things she wants before she wakes up and decides that she needs to save herself.

 

That would be a pretty awesome 100th episode. Or they could do a bit of A Christmas Carol where Emma witnesses her past, present, and future as the Dark One. She first sees her past memories of before she became the Dark One, but Emma uses that to justify why being the current Dark One is so much better than boring old Emma whose life sucked because all she did was focus on everyone else's happy endings but her own. Then she sees present Dark One Emma and how she can snap her fingers and get her own mansion and she thinks that's pretty cool, too. But then she sees her future as the Dark One where all her loved ones are miserable and everyone around her is either afraid of her or resents her, so she has her lightbulb moment where she needs to save herself and 5B is all about trying to course correct the bad vision of her future.

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I think they're pretty set on the half-arcs and I think they're set on it because they're literally incapable of sustaining an arc for more than 9-10 episodes. The only season long arc they've had was S1 with break the curse and that's because they filled each week with mini procedurals. Less than a handful of episodes dealt directly with the curse. But when they set up an arc to have 1 goal that can be succintly summarized in a hashtag and every episode revolves around it and pointless flashbacks, it gets pretty tedious.

 

The template is pretty clear cut. The first 5 or so episodes introduces the new characters and the long drawn out fake mystery they try to set up before making the grand reveal as to what the big to do is. Then they do a breather-throwaway episode. Then comes the villain wreaking havoc episodes and guest stars back stories before an easy and contrived resolve to the big ass horrible conflict that never came to fruition. And from what I've seen with the spoilers so far it looks like it's following it to the letter.

 

 

Yay to more Emma and Rumple scenes. I wonder if he'll try to kill her to get his powers back.

 

I've missed their S1 dynamic and the odds and ends scenes they've gotten since so I'm looking forward to it and hopefully some DO mythology stuff. I don't think Rump is going to try to kill her but he will try to get his powers back. Killing her would only put him back under the dagger's powers and that's something he's been working to get rid of. I have a feeling the dagger isn't going to work the way it's been shown to so far.

 

Also something that has been bugging me, Emma traveling to another realm by herself is her own magic or her magic combined with the DO? Cause the DO isn't capable of that. Rump needed Jefferson's hat to travel between magical realms. Or my pet theory is Emma was prophesized to take on the DO and Merlin made it so for some nefarious reason of his own. When it finally happened, it automatically went back to the DO's place of origin or where Merlin is.

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I bear good news for Once Upon a Time fans hoping that the introduction of Merida (played by Amy Manson) means we’ll at some point meet her royal ‘rents. This season’s ninth episode will introduce  Queen Elinor and King Fergus.

 

Was anyone actually hoping for this? Well, whatever, I'm actually kind of excited for Merida so I can live with this. But still, #WeStillDon'tEvenKnowHook'sParents continues. (I guess I have to add Robin to that list now that he's a regular.)

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I bear good news for Once Upon a Time fans hoping that the introduction of Merida (played by Amy Manson) means we’ll at some point meet her royal ‘rents. This season’s ninth episode will introduce  Queen Elinor and King Fergus

Isn't it kind of weird to introduce them on the penultimate episode to the winter finale? Maybe it means her story is important.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Isn't it kind of weird to introduce them on the penultimate episode to the winter finale? Maybe it means her story is important.

 

They'll probably mirror Snowing when it comes to Emma in some way.

 

I would like to extend a warm welcome to Merida's parents who are arriving before the parents of a main character. You never disappoint me, show! Ever!

 

Anyway...

Edited by YaddaYadda
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Was anyone actually hoping for this?

 

Not me.  Feels like they're just throwing shit at the wall.  I doubt the show will ever get back it's S1 brilliance.  Despite the bad CGI, there was still a little darkness, mystery and edge to the show.  Now they're adding all these characters who bring the fluff and the bad CGI seems magnified because of it.  I wanted a twisted fairytale and I get a show the equivalent of Disney Channel fare. 

 

I wonder who Disney will force them to add next season (or are the show runners behind this stunt casting binge?).  Someone from Tangled or The Princess and the Frog or whatever new Disney film came out recently?  And why do all these characters have to be connected to Rumpel? 

 

I think I might end up ditching this show again.

Edited by FierceAfroChick
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That would be a pretty awesome 100th episode. Or they could do a bit of A Christmas Carol where Emma witnesses her past, present, and future as the Dark One. She first sees her past memories of before she became the Dark One, but Emma uses that to justify why being the current Dark One is so much better than boring old Emma whose life sucked because all she did was focus on everyone else's happy endings but her own. Then she sees present Dark One Emma and how she can snap her fingers and get her own mansion and she thinks that's pretty cool, too. But then she sees her future as the Dark One where all her loved ones are miserable and everyone around her is either afraid of her or resents her, so she has her lightbulb moment where she needs to save herself and 5B is all about trying to course correct the bad vision of her future.

Or "It's a Wonderful Life".  If Emma starts cutting herself out of the lives of the people she loves because she thinks it's better for them or doing it for them while the darkness is overtaking her, maybe she gets to see how important she is to everyone (not Regina) and she would decide to do everything she can to get rid of the darkness.

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Isn't it kind of weird to introduce them on the penultimate episode to the winter finale?

 

Oh wow, I didn't even realize this was the penultimate episode. Now I really hope Episode 10 is super-sized because I can already sense the rushed resolution from here.

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Oh great! Another backstory I don't care about for a character I don't care about. How lovely.

(I guess I have to add Robin to that list now that he's a regular.)

Oh, don't worry. I'm sure we would meet his parents before we meet Hook's.

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Oh, don't worry. I'm sure we would meet his parents before we meet Hook's

Probably his adoptive cousins twice removed as well.

 

Does anyone feel like Dark Swan is somewhat of a misdirect? There's probably something in Camelot that's the bigger fish to fry. The S4 finale is somewhat like the S3 finale, where a "new character" is introduced that seems to be the newest Big Bad, only they're misunderstood. Seeing how similar Emma and Elsa are, my money is on Merlin (or something he's connected to) being the actual villain.

 

They really don't want us focused on Camelot, as far as promotion goes. But with the filming spoilers, it looks like it'll be a big deal.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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my money is on Merlin (or something he's connected to) being the actual villain.

 

I've been thinking Merlin is the big villain for a while, too. Especially since he didn't even begin filming until Episode 5, I think they might be setting him up as the main villain all the way through 5B. At least, that's what I'm hoping for so that the two half seasons are a little more connected. They can still have thematically different feels to them (5A = Camelot, 5B = __________), but Merlin is the one who ties the two stories together, along with Dark Swan (since I don't think she'll be rid of the curse until 5B's finale.).

Edited by Curio
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Now that it's been pointed out that Merida is walking around in a ripped dress for pretty much no reason except for brand recognition, it's going to bug me now. I can't un-see it.

Thanks a lot, Shanna Marie!!!

I live to serve! But it is weird how they pick and choose where to put their brand recognition. Show Hook never shows any resemblance to Disney Hook. Show Snow White's iconic outfits have nothing to do with the iconic Disney version. Maybe it's because Merida is new and not too iconic, so they think we won't recognize the archer with a Scottish accent, wildly curly red hair and a medieval/Celtic dress if that dress isn't ripped in exactly the way it was in the movie?

 

As for her parents, I'm not going to get too excited about it. They'll probably play about as big a role (or even less) as Elsa and Anna's parents did. Since they're showing up in that next-to-last episode, they'll probably just be there to greet Merida when she returns home. They aren't going to be using her parents to give her backstory, since that's what the whole movie was about. And it's kind of a pity there's no way in hell they'll get Emma Thompson to reprise her role here.

 

Thinking more on that "you're assuming she's saved" thing about Emma, I'm wondering if perhaps "saved" is the right word here. It implies someone who's in danger and needs rescuing. Emma might not actually be in peril. She could be helped, maybe. She could cast out the Dark One, but would that mean she was "saved"?

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Does anyone feel like Dark Swan is somewhat of a misdirect? my money is on Merlin (or something he's connected to) being the actual villain. They really don't want us focused on Camelot, as far as promotion goes. But with the filming spoilers, it looks like it'll be a big deal.

 

I automatically thought Merlin was the big bad since the finale aired last May and that the dark flubber is his.

 

As far as the promotion I don't know if that's deliberate misdirect so much as good business. I think Merida makes more sense to reel in Disney fans than Camelot. Sword in the Stone isn't really a super iconic Disney thing. I don't know if Merida is either in the way the classic princesses or Frozen are but it is more recent. Maybe they looked at the comic con tweets to see what was out there. I'm willing to bet the Merida surprise got a lot of attention and from people who don't even watch the show.

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So that's an interesting group to film together for the Fraturday shoot. So Lancelot isn't dead & Merlin is in SB, I guess. (Assuming no costume change for Josh into Camelot wear from his afternoon SB clothes.)

 

ETA: Josh had a real sword, so it's probably Camelot after all.

Edited by Souris
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