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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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If they're filming til Wednesday, maybe the Emma/Dager stuff is the ending of the first hour

 

There isn't that much filming time left, though. They must be taking today off after spending all night filming and this weekend is Easter. Friday is the stat and Monday is a bank holiday. So that likely only means two days of filming left (Tuesday/Wednesday).

 

It's possible that the Emma sacrifice scene ends the first hour because they don't always film in order, but I suspect it is the climatic scene of the second hour. The scenes they probably have left to film are like the "One Year Later In New York" scene from 3A or the "Guess What? Elsa is Here too" scene from 3B.

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"#SaveEmma" just sounds like a real retread of 2A, 3A and even 4A. What would be interesting for the Nevengers though would be to see if they can accomplish their goals without their leader being there. It would test how far they've come since the last time they had to band together as a team.

 

Hook: "We have to save Emma! She's my happy ending!"

Regina: "Emma is my friend and Henry cares about her. She gave me my happy ending. Come on Robin, let's go be heroes."

 

Snowing: "Oh her? Naw, she'll be fine. She's the Savior."

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Snowing: "Oh her? Naw, she'll be fine. She's the Savior."

 

Or:

 

Snowing: "Emma? Who? We got stuff to do and she's probably happier in whatever hellhole she got sucked into...wait a second...something is threatening us, Neal or Regina...where the hell is Emma? Do whatever you have to do to get her back."

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I think we're forgetting an important person in all of this.  The Sorcerer.  I'm pretty sure we're supposed to find out who he is.  Whatever happens to Emma might be related to him directly.

 

one thing, the clothing.  When everyone disappears, Emma and Regina are still wearing the clothes they had on during their road trip.  But Emma wakes up wearing a white top and Regina is not in the purple dress anymore?  We know for sure they're in EF clothing in the EF (there's a pic of Robin and Will wearing EF clothes).

 

I think there's something weird about that.  I'd think they would come back to SB wearing the same clothes they had on when they were pulled out of it, no?

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(edited)

I don't expect them to do it, either, but if they did a half season long search for Emma, they could jump ahead in time, and have the flashbacks be Emma focused, or they could stay concurrent and so sideways flashes to whatever is happening with Emma at that point in time.

You know, that's a great idea. I wouldn't want it for the whole 5A, but maybe for half of it, it could really work. Fast forward 6 months or one year, and after fruitlessly searching for clues everywhere, Team #SaveEmma finally gets an hint about where she could be and sails off on an adventure to retrieve her. Meanwhile, the flashbacks start immediately after Emma's sacrifice, where she wakes up somewhere and has to make her way home but is maybe delayed because, ehm, Camelot is in grave danger and needs a Savior? Or whatever. Then in episode 5 or 6 or whatever, the timelines sync up, we get to present day with Emma and the Nevengers find her. Reunion, yay.

 

Hopefully they choose an interesting new world to explore. She could end up in Camelot since it's been mentioned a couple of times. Or, since she's "dead", she could end up in the Underworld and meet Hades and they could do Greek myths.

 

I think we're forgetting an important person in all of this.  The Sorcerer.  I'm pretty sure we're supposed to find out who he is.  Whatever happens to Emma might be related to him directly.

If the Camelot spec is true, the Sorcerer could totally be Merlin.

 

Hey, they should take a page out of that DCOM and have Emma be Arthur!

Edited by Serena
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You know I would love for them to do Camelot, but I see what they did to Robin and how much I hate him and they might turn Arthur into a douche nozzle and I cannot take that.  That will be incredibly upsetting.

 

That being said, the Sorcerer could very well be Merlin and they can fastforward Camelot after Arthur (30 years later at least).  

 

Wasn't there a casting call for a recurring role of a king who had a hard earned crown or something?

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There's always amnesia. I mean, getting zapped with whatever and transported elsewhere has got to loosen or rearrange a few synapses -- we see what Emma's up to, but Emma doesn't know she's Emma and just starts making a life for herself wherever she is. And then this dashing one-handed stranger shows up ...

 

I suspect that our speculation will be better than what the so-called pros actually write.

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There's always amnesia. I mean, getting zapped with whatever and transported elsewhere has got to loosen or rearrange a few synapses -- we see what Emma's up to, but Emma doesn't know she's Emma and just starts making a life for herself wherever she is. And then this dashing one-handed stranger shows up ...

 

This is what happened in New York Serenade.

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This is what happened in New York Serenade.

Which dramatically improves the odds of this being the scenario that plays out, given TS;TW.

 

But it would explain why she's still there and not running around trying to find her way back, however many months later. Unless they're going to do the thing where in her quest to get home, she's moved on from the place they track her to by the time they get there. But that would get frustrating after a while. Then again, TS;TW. They'd totally spend the season with them all wandering in circles, just missing each other, until just before they need to resolve it all.

 

And we're forgetting the important thing here: what would Regina be doing and feeling? Would she rationalize not charging off to look for Emma on the basis that Emma's sacrifice to get her a happy ending would be in vain if she didn't live out her happy ending?

 

Also, after this, she gets immediately shot the next time she whines that nobody else ever has her back or is there for her.

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So everyone goes to EF for whatever AU/Operation Mongoose/Timeline hoopla in Part 1, then they're back in Storybrooke for Part 2 for the lightning storm, etc.? That's a lot.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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(edited)

I think that scene is them arriving back to Storybrooke after the EF AU. They probably would end up appearing where they were when they disappeared. That's why Emma, Regina and the Aprendice are together. They think everything is fine and then some curse hits leading to Emma's sacrifice.

 

Here is a short video from yesterday, with the moment Emma makes her sacrifice.

 

A complete recount of the scene (yes, she does it to save Regina):

Ow, my heart. I can't even begin to figure out what's going to happen, but is it too much to hope that either Hook or Emma says, "I will find you"?

Edited by ABitOFluff
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Also, after this, she gets immediately shot the next time she whines that nobody else ever has her back or is there for her.

 

Why? Emma already took a wraith for her and that didn't stop her whining in the past. Neither did Emma risking her life to save Regina's when faced with Regina's failsafe. Why would Emma yet again getting zapped into another realm to save Regina change Regina's behaviour?

 

but Emma doesn't know she's Emma and just starts making a life for herself wherever she is. And then this dashing one-handed stranger shows up ...

 

But....complications....Emma is already married to some Camelotian Yak farmer. TS, TW would think that was karmic payback for  Emma ruining Regina's happy ending by saving Marian's life even though Emma already gave up everything to make ammends. So, Emma will have to choose to either do the honorable thing and stay with her Yak farmer or return to her pirate (can't say "true love" just yet).

 

But, no worries, the Camelotian Yak farrmer will turn out to be Rumple in disguise trying to get back all his dark magic (pay not attention to how creepy that would be) and by episode 2, Emma will be back in Storybrooke and Rumple will be running his pawn shop again....and suddenly, a monster will appear on Main street, Grumpy will run screaming about the apocolypse and we are off to the races with our new villain.

Edited by kili
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(edited)

I'm lol'ing at the fact that we are already brainstorming possible scenarios for S5 when we still have half of 4B to go. Shows how invested we are in the resolution of this brilliant author plot.

But I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring for possible reasons why Emma wouldn't immediately go back home from wherever she ends up after her death/sacrifice:

  1. Like people already mentioned, she could have amnesia and/or been brainwashed to believe she was someone else.
  2. The way she survives is that the Sorcered/Merlin saves her at the last second and transports her to Camelot because he needs her power to save the land, which is going to shit after Arthur's death (or similar).
  3. She tries but can't find a way. No portals.
  4. She gets roped into saving the people of wherever-she-ends-up somehow.
Edited by Serena
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4.She gets roped into saving the people of wherever-she-end-up somehow.

 

“Theorising that one could get Regina her happy ending, Emma Swan got herself zapped by magical lightning  and vanished... She woke to find herself trapped in another realm, facing people she had never met in her life, and driven by an unknown force to change their stories for the better. Her only guide on this journey is Blue, a fairy from her own realm, who appears in the form of a mirage that only Emma can see and hear. And so Emma Swan finds herself leaping from realm to realm, striving to put right what once went wrong, and hoping each time that her next leap will be the leap home…”

 

I bet this story ends the same way...grrrr....

Edited by kili
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(edited)

Hmm..so seeing as how Emma can do mirror magic and see across realms (like she saw Ariel and Prince Eric), would she be able to get a message to the Nevengers back in Storybrooke? Regina was able to communicate with Henry via mirror in Neverland, but they were all in Neverland together.

That is, if she does keep her memories, didn't hit her head on a rock or whatever!

Edited by OnceUponAJen
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6. In conclusion, whatever it is, more suffering for Emma.

 

I think we need to all take a deep breath and untwist our collective knickers.  We have to get through the drivel that is 417 first.

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Maybe this will be what breaks Snow's devotion to Regina being happy. Maybe Snow will remember why she's the same age as her grown ass daughter and actually remember that the person her daughter just sacrificed for gets everything and her poor daughter continues to get trashed because she still doesn't love herself after that beautiful scene she had with Elsa. At least I hope that's what happens. I need Snow White to clap back on Regina instead of this insta friendship these two have where the victim is having some sort of Stockholm syndrome.

What I don't care for is to see Regina still mopey after she gets what she wants without working for it. Keep her with Robin and Roland while everyone else go find Emma. I know people hate Snow here but I'm still rooting for her. So I rather see her, Charming and Hook go find Emma.

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But....complications....Emma is already married to some Camelotian Yak farmer.

I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happens, that when they find Emma, she doesn't remember who she is and she is in a relationship with someone else. They have already done it, but, you know, TS, TW.

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I know people hate Snow here but I'm still rooting for her.

 

I don't think it's hate as much as it is wanting to throttle her into next week.  I mean when Snow says Regina is finally our friend, I just feel like slapping her...hard...repeatedly, in the hopes that some sense will get knocked into her.  We should burn the page to protect Emma, but what about Regina's happy ending...sigh!  The line has been officially blurred between Snow and Mary Margaret.

 

Also, I love you guys, a lot, but JFC, I think I got a couple of new grey hairs and I'm far too young for this!

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What I don't care for is to see Regina still mopey after she gets what she wants without working for it. Keep her with Robin and Roland while everyone else go find Emma.

 

Oh, but you totally know that's what was going to happen anyways. Everyone here called Regina still being unhappy even when she supposedly gets her "happy ending" with Robin, Roland, and Henry. The four of them will be one big happy family unit, but she'll still not be completely satisfied because she'll still feel like a jerk for guilting Emma so hard about Marian that Emma felt the need to freaking sacrifice herself for Regina. So then we'll get a half season of Regina moping about how they need to get Emma back to Storybrooke because then she'll finally be happy. And then Emma will come back to Storybrooke, Regina will have Henry, Robin, Roland, and a new one on the way, and she'll still complain about being unhappy because her favorite suit shop closed down.

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I loved Quantum Leap. But just no...

 

OMG, why, kili? WHY? I am STILL scarred by that finale. Like, as much as I loved the show,  I haven't been able to watch ANY of it ever since it ended, because the ending made me so stabby.

 

Maybe this will be what breaks Snow's devotion to Regina being happy. Maybe Snow will remember why she's the same age as her grown ass daughter and actually remember that the person her daughter just sacrificed for gets everything and her poor daughter continues to get trashed because she still doesn't love herself after that beautiful scene she had with Elsa. At least I hope that's what happens. I need Snow White to clap back on Regina instead of this insta friendship these two have where the victim is having some sort of Stockholm syndrome.

 

Oh, that would be glorious and realistic and what I want. It will not happen.

Edited by Souris
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OMG, why, kili? WHY? I am STILL scarred by that finale. Like, as much as I loved the show,  I haven't been able to watch ANY of it ever since it ended, because the ending made me so stabby.

 

One of the wrongs that Sam eventually sets right is to remove that ending title card and he leaps home. That's my Crack!Theory and I'm never going to be swayed.

 

I swear, if Once ends without Emma getting her freakin' Happy Ending, I'm going to....I don't know...but it's going to be bad. I hope A&E are given enough warning to wrap the series up properly.

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You know I would love for them to do Camelot, but I see what they did to Robin and how much I hate him and they might turn Arthur into a douche nozzle and I cannot take that.  That will be incredibly upsetting.

 

Have you seen Starz' Camelot? I'm quite positive Once wouldn't be able to create a more douchy and unlikable version of Arthur. Seriously, this guy was the worst. I couldn't even watch the show despite Eva Green playing Morgana (and god knows I adore both Eva Green and Morgana).

 

Anyway, they've already wasted Lancelot (another favorite), so I don't really care. Anything they do at this point will suck unless supervised, like Frozen. 

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TV Sweeps Scorecard

 

They have a "out of this world" cliffhanger, which could be the Emma-gets-transported-to-whatever thing we were talking about. The way "out of this world" is italicized implies that it's literally in another world, and there's not many shows who can realistically have a "character gets transported to a different world" plotline. I can only think of Once (and when it was on the air, Fringe).

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Have you seen Starz' Camelot? I'm quite positive Once wouldn't be able to create a more douchy and unlikable version of Arthur. Seriously, this guy was the worst. I couldn't even watch the show despite Eva Green playing Morgana (and god knows I adore both Eva Green and Morgana).

 

Oh, I have and I was so relieved when they cancelled that show.  I never rooted so actively for the death of a character in my life and I wanted Arthur deader than dead.  I have never been so disappointed because I had been looking forward to it.  I think I gave up after 3 shows.

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Didn't A&E say at some point say that Hook and Emma were going to have another adventure together? Or did they mean this season?

They said "this year", but who knows what that means? Like, maybe they think chasing the author in the woods counts as a crazy adventure.

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Didn't A&E say at some point say that Hook and Emma were going to have another adventure together? Or did they mean this season?

 

They say a lot of things that never seems to materiallize (weren't we supposed to meet Hook's dad?). Or if it does, it underwhelms. Remember "Emma is going to fight for Hook" in season 4A? That consisted of ignoring Hook's increasingly bizarre behavior, inexplicably showing up at the clocktower, frozen jazz hands and 23 seconds spent shoving his heart back into his shoulder before she hurried over to cheer up Regina by doing shots. Their adventure was probably them hugging it out on the docks in the last episode. Whelmed?

 

We should have a running scorecard:

What A&E Said...What We Got

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Oh, I have and I was so relieved when they cancelled that show.  I never rooted so actively for the death of a character in my life and I wanted Arthur deader than dead.  I have never been so disappointed because I had been looking forward to it.  I think I gave up after 3 shows.

 

Well, the showrunner was Chris Chibnall, IIRC, so we all should have known not to expect anything good. Although Merlin and Morgana were tolerable, at least (mostly).

 

They have a "out of this world" cliffhanger, which could be the Emma-gets-transported-to-whatever thing we were talking about. The way "out of this world" is italicized implies that it's literally in another world, and there's not many shows who can realistically have a "character gets transported to a different world" plotline. I can only think of Once (and when it was on the air, Fringe).

 

I suppose comic book shows can do alternative universes as well, after all, this is a staple of the genre. Arrow and AoS are a bit too grounded for that, but The Flash could probably do it, considering the time travel stuff.

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(edited)

 

If the Camelot spec is true, the Sorcerer could totally be Merlin.

Then Morgana finds Jafar's bottle.

 

 

What I don't care for is to see Regina still mopey after she gets what she wants without working for it. Keep her with Robin and Roland while everyone else go find Emma.

Regina will get everything she wants then realize that it wasn't worth taking away another person's happy ending for. It sounds very out of character, but with a two-parter Operation Mongoose and the BFF Emma thing, it seems like they would go there.

 

 

But if she ended up with amnesia in some magical world, then she might know she was a powerful sorceress without knowing her identity or any of the real-world stuff.

Then Merlin gives her fake memories so he can train her as his successor. Maybe Morgana was his former student, but she became corrupted and now she's jealous of Emma.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Emma already took a wraith for her and that didn't stop her whining in the past.

That's why I said "immediately shot" instead of "given a stern warning and then slapped." She's out of strikes.

 

You know, the stranded in another world with amnesia thing would actually be kind of an inversion of the season 3 situation. Then she knew her identity, her name, and all the real-world stuff. She just didn't remember any of the magic or fairy tale things. But if she ended up with amnesia in some magical world, then she might know she was a powerful sorceress without knowing her identity or any of the real-world stuff.

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TV Sweeps Scorecard

 

They have a "out of this world" cliffhanger, which could be the Emma-gets-transported-to-whatever thing we were talking about. The way "out of this world" is italicized implies that it's literally in another world, and there's not many shows who can realistically have a "character gets transported to a different world" plotline. I can only think of Once (and when it was on the air, Fringe).

 

Oh, Lord, there's a pregnancy category on there. The Once fandom is going to go pregnancy-crazy again. Or still, since it doesn't seem to have stopped.

 

Didn't A&E say at some point say that Hook and Emma were going to have another adventure together? Or did they mean this season?

 

They said they'd have an adventure. They didn't specify together.

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Everyone here called Regina still being unhappy even when she supposedly gets her "happy ending" with Robin, Roland, and Henry. The four of them will be one big happy family unit, but she'll still not be completely satisfied because she'll still feel like a jerk for guilting Emma so hard about Marian that Emma felt the need to freaking sacrifice herself for Regina.

Is Regina actually capable of feeling guilt? I can't imagine her having that level of self-awareness. It seems more like her to snap at anyone who brings it up because she doesn't want to hear about it, and the part that ruins her happy ending is that she doesn't have Emma around anymore to do shots with. She has her son, "stepson," and Robin, but now she doesn't have a friend, so she's terribly unhappy, the universe failed her, hasn't she earned a happy ending, something must be done, whine, whine, whine.

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The out of this world cliffhanger can be Agents of Shield with what is happening with Skye. And the pregnancy is probably Bones. But who knows, I just hope one of the couples saying ILY is Hook and Emma.

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Is Regina actually capable of feeling guilt? I can't imagine her having that level of self-awareness.

 

If Regina doesn't have any self-awareness after this huge event and after four flipping seasons of not feeling guilty about what she's done to Emma in the past...I might have to flip another table.

 

But I agree, Regina is out of strikes at this point when it comes to whining about happy endings. She supposedly got her happy ending when she cast the initial curse. She supposedly got another happy ending when she burned Snow at the stake. She now has Robin, Roland, and Henry in her life, she's still mayor of Storybrooke, and she still lives in a mansion. I now want there to be a running gag where any time Regina starts complaining about something, the closest character around her will just snap and scream, "Emma sacrificed herself for your happy ending! Shut up!" 

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Does it look like Regina's stunt double is on wires? And if that's the case what's up with Regina and Robin looking to the sky later on? Weirdness.

Also my head canon is that Hook doesn't say, "Emma, no!" He's saying "I know," after Emma tells him she loves him. Don't you dare tell me otherwise!

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Does it look like Regina's stunt double is on wires? And if that's the case what's up with Regina and Robin looking to the sky later on? Weirdness.

 

Yes, it is.  So they actually do get back to Storybrooke in the same clothes they left in and then they get a wardrobe change.  Guess that answers that?  Somehow?  There's also a green screen behind JMo and Lana.

 

We're like what 5 weeks away from the finale?

Edited by YaddaYadda
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(edited)

Does it look like Regina's stunt double is on wires?

There was a set report that Regina gets lifted into the sky, and that's when Emma lifts the dagger, hence people saying that Emma sacrifices herself for Regina.

http://captaincronut.tumblr.com/post/115311368073

Since they return from the EF during the day, and the dagger scene is at night, and they're dressed differently, it's probably the next day. I'm hoping we get a nice CS scene inbetween then. And by nice, I mean sex. :P

Edited by pezgirl7
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So, hypothetically speaking, Emma sacrifices herself for the greater good and poor Hook loses his happy ending, does he get to tell Regina off because this shit is sort of all her fault since she wanted to find the author to get him to write her her happy ending and then Rumple latched on to the idea and then Emma latched onto it too because she's unsure about herself and releases the author?

 

Does he get to yell at her?

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Does he get to yell at her?

 

Given what we know: No, he does not.

 

Emma has free will. It was her dumba$$ decision to make it her mission in life to get Regina a happy ending and it it was her dumba$$ decision to let the rogue Author out of his cage (August made it pretty clear that the guy took away free will and was doing some dodgy stuff). If she then decides to make the dumba$$ decision to sacrifice herself to save Regina, well, Hook, that is what happens when your Happy Ending involves being in love with a dumba$$.

 

I hate Woegenia's whining, but like a bratty child, you can either chose to tune out her whining or give in to its every whim. Hook can be done with Emma for making incredibly bad choices or he can love her despite her extreme hero complex. But this is really all on Emma (and A&E for writing such a dumb plot - Hook can yell at A&E should they fall into the book) and it's not like she has been hiding her hero complex from him.

 

Although, I would like somebody to yell at Regina if she starts whining again.

Edited by kili
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Does he get to yell at her?

 

What? Of course not. Nobody gets to yell at Regina. Why, that would have to be even more villainous than a 10-year-old telling a secret.

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Instead of yelling, I hope he makes her help him. Hook needs to drag Regina into Gold's shop and make her work to get his Emma back. Reattach his left hand so he can put it in the gauntlet and have it take him to the thing he values most. Problem solved.

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Instead of yelling, I hope he makes her help him. Hook needs to drag Regina into Gold's shop and make her work to get his Emma back. Reattach his left hand so he can put it in the gauntlet and have it take him to the thing he values most. Problem solved.

 

Love it!

 

I think there was a set report that they were blowing up the from door from Gold's shop at the end of filming.  (someone also said that Emma and Hook were coming from that direction before they started shooting the dagger scenes).

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My wild speculation: Rumpel gets his happy ending to be the most powerfullest evah, and he is a big CGI thing in the sky attacking everyone with lightning, and Emma holds the dagger up because the Sorcerer told her to, and Rumpel's like haha no, that dagger won't control me again, but when he zaps her, oops it hurts him too, and now he's just sucky Mr. Gold, not the all powerful Dark One. I did say my speculation was wild.

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