Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

Especially a pregnant Wicked Witch. I guess they needed to give Rebecca something to do before her character pops her baby out.

[mjgchick]

Are they playing Bachelor with Arthur? Is he going to give them a rose and not Zelena so that's what turns her green? Hee.

[regularlyleaded]

I think the only problem with the split Emma is that DS isn't completely dark. You saw shades of real Emma with Henry, Hook and when she's alone.

Oh yeah, I realize that my split Emma theory is totally crazy pants and relies on handwaving, but handwaving is this show’s specialty. I would expect far better from other shows, but I’m spitballing for this show not for Shakespeare ;)

As to split Dark Emma still having some love for Hook and Henry -- meh, why not. TS;TW;Calvinball rules. If Dark Emma is a corrupted version of the regular Emma then it’s not totally nuts to think that some things that are intrinsic to Emma herself would remain a part of split half Dark Emma. According to the show runners, The Dark One’s curse exacerbates the worst tendencies of the person it possesses (and purportedly makes them all lust for power even though Emma has never craved power at all and actually pushed against acknowledging her own intrinsic power as The Savior. But The Plot says Emma likes power, so All Hail The Plot). I don’t think it's unreasonable for Dark Emma to still care for those that, when she's herself, she truly loves, so I can hand wave split Dark Emma having shades of regular Emma when it comes to Hook and Henry.

Also, let's be real here, the writers aren’t above having a character behave a specific way just to throw off the audience. According to the writers, Zelena parading around as Marian was a thing they had planned all along, and yet absolutely nothing on screen supports that. Neither Zarian's (Zelena as Marian) behavior nor Zarian's late revealed "evil schemes" supports A&E's statement that Zarian was planned all along. IMO A&E are lying through their teeth and only decided to make Marian into Zelena five minutes before the reveal. But, either way, the writers like their audience dumb. The writers have the characters speak in riddles when within the show narrative there’s no reason for these people to speak so cryptically to each other, and they have characters behave contrary to what’s really going on just for the sake of keeping the audience dumb and for the drama. Hence, Dark Emma not being truly evil and instead acting like a Mean Girls version of regular Emma, even though she’s actually split into two and you would expect perhaps more actual evil, is absolutely within these writers’ wheelhouse.

Additionally, there’s another reason why these writers in particular might go with split Emma: These writers hate consequences and dealing with fallout, and split Emma gets them out of having to deal with that when all is said and done. If Emma has been split into two, a Dark One and Light One, then when the half that is the Dark One is defeated the writers have given themselves a get out of jail free card in terms of dealing with anything truly evil Dark One Emma may have done. Emma may ruminate and angst about how it was still her worst half that did all this bad stuff (assuming she ever does anything truly evil), but her guilt is limited because she was torn into two different entities and the one responsible for the bad stuff quite literally didn’t have her better self to counter act it. With writers like these, a setup like this let’s them avoid dealing with any fallout. They can just hand wave it away as, “Well, you see, Emma was split into two, so it wasn’t really her doing all this evil stuff so there’s no need to deal with it at all.”

Also, if they really want to have Dark Emma actually do really evil things, then they can use split Dark Emma to that end in 5B. It’s possible that if Emma was actually split into two then 5x09 is where the reveal that Emma was split occurs, and then Light Emma’s release from whatever prison she’s in (say she really is trapped inside Excalibur) is the end of 5x10. Light Emma’s release from her prison in 5x10 allows the writers to have Dark Emma go really evil and the Big Bad going into 5B.

Like I said, the theory is crazy pants (and in all likelihood completely wrong), but I think it also, weirdly enough, fits. Emma right now embodies Absolute Light because she’s The Savior — I think (maybe) that's what 5x02 was going for; that even though Emma has The Dark One’s curse she’s still The Savior because she's still willing to pay the price for others and is also able to do things only The Savior is supposedly able to do, in this instance that meant healing Robin — and she’s also The Dark One (who is supposedly the culmination of centuries of evil compounded into one person). Then, what would normally be a metaphysical struggle would be brought to the physical world and it would be (IMO) very cool to watch JMo pull it off. And I for one would rather watch Emma save herself in a struggle of Dark One Emma versus Light One Emma than have to sit through yet another arc of “St. Woegina saves The Universe!” by way of Alien Vampire Bunnies flying out of her butt, yet again.

 

Regurlarlyleaded, maybe they'll both be split and we get 4 for the price of 2. Add in some shapeshifting stuff and things could get really fun.

Split Merlin and Split Emma? Sign me up! ;) 

 

I was basing my spec off of Jacob and Man in Black and we all know how much they love their Lost references. Jacob sounds a lot like Merlin and I think the premiere scene was a callback of 2 scenes combined in Lost. Jacob appears to young Kate while she is stealing something and appears to Jack, giving him the Apollo candy bar. So of course our super creative master storytellers had Merlin popping up while young Emma is stealing an Apollo bar.

The Man in Black aka Smoke Monster is just like our Black Goo Monster aka DO.

It's been years since I've watched LOST and it's all very hazy to me, so I'm going to have to take your word for it ;). Yes, I could go back and rewatch LOST on Netflix, but I'm having this problem: Because these two "master storytellers" were involved with LOST I have a physical revulsion to watching it. I don't want to go near anything they've written. I realize A&E were just two of many writers on LOST and not the show runners or creators, but I've grown to intensely despise A&E's work and it's all because of this show. That's right, A&E, the shitfest that is Woegina is forever on your resumes making you The Worst Writers Ever!

Edited October 6, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[Curio]

The Excalibur + Dagger seemed like totally new information to her.

 

I feel like it only seemed like new information to her because it was the writer's clunky way of introducing that mystery to the audience. Emma should have already known everything Rumple was telling her in the basement, but to make it vague to us, they had it appear like Emma was hearing that information for the first time. I definitely think Emma already knew that she'd need a hero to pull out the sword to combine it with the dagger, but tried anyways just to see if that theory was false.

 

So now that we've seen filming reports of other characters visiting Emma's house, wouldn't it be smart of Emma to use reverse psychology on them in order for them to pull the sword for her? Emma should set up a plan where she "accidentally" lets it slip to Hook that combining the dagger and the sword will cure her of the Dark One curse, and that's the last thing she wants. So Hook uses that false information she tricks him into believing and he tells the others about it. So basically, all of our heroes then go on a quest to go behind Emma's back, sneak into her basement, and pull out the sword to combine it with the dagger. Our heroes think they're doing it to help save Emma, when really, she just tricked them into doing it for her because she can't do it herself.

[YaddaYadda]

So basically, all of our heroes then go on a quest to go behind Emma's back, sneak into her basement, and pull out the sword to combine it with the dagger. Our heroes think they're doing it to help save Emma, when really, she just tricked them into doing it for her because she can't do it herself.

 

Remember the BTS from 5x05, Henry and Emma leave together in her bug and Hook, Regina, Robin and Belle are hanging out around the house or inside of it. I'm assuming whatever they're doing has to do with that door.

 

The thing is, Emma wasn't harmed by the sword except for being blasted back because she has magic. And Arthur was meant to possess the sword. Kay on the other hand was turned to dust. I'd be worried about any magicless person to touch that thing.

 

Since Excalibur is this year's Sorcerer's hat and the hat had rules, I'm assuming the rules will come into play.

 

We already know that a hero can pull it out of the stone.

But what kind of hero are we looking for? Someone who was confronted by their darkness like Anna was and turned away from it? Because that's exactly what Hook did last episode. 

 

Or does the sword just needs to be back with its rightful owner, if that's still Arthur.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I feel like it only seemed like new information to her because it was the writer's clunky way of introducing that mystery to the audience. Emma should have already known everything Rumple was telling her in the basement, but to make it vague to us, they had it appear like Emma was hearing that information for the first time.

Well... that's confusing.

[regularlyleaded]

Why is Dark Swan trying to get Killian to trust her? I mean, I know he's fine and all, but since she now has this "join the dagger with Excalibur" sword, you'd think she wouldn't have time to play head games with him, complete with dressing up. 

 

She might be trying to get him to pull Excalibur from the stone. Emma considers Hook a hero, so I could see Dark Swan trying to convince Hook to release Excalibur (and yes, no matter how I write that sentence it just sounds dirty).

[Souris]

I hope Dark Swan doesn't know about Kay going poof when he tried to pull Excalibur, because that would be terrible if she risked Hook going poof.

[Mari]

^^^^Souris, your comment appeared while I was typing.  :)

 

Okay, I don't think we have to worry about anybody in our main cast getting dusted, but any ideas about how they're planning to get around that?  Or are they?  Do you think any of the part-time cast are going to get dusted when they try to pull the sword?

[kili]

This name in the press release struck me as interesting:

 

Jeffrey Kaiser as Dopey

 

Dopey did not come to Camelot (just Grumpy, Doc and Happy) and he is currently a tree - so does that mean he gets cured or is there an EF flashback (Lancelot is also present)?

 

We find out what happens to Lancelot.  David goes on a quest (with Arthur supsiciously following - it looks like one of them tries to drown the other in the preview).

 

How can a thief be threatening Camelot people in Storybrook? Are they stealing the water? Why not just billet them in houses? They billeted the Storybrook people in their castle. Who would steal? Will disappeared. Is Dark Emma pranking them?

 

I hope Dark Swan doesn't know about Kay going poof when he tried to pull Excalibur, because that would be terrible if she risked Hook going poof.

 

Like the Rumple-in-her-Head woud warn her. He has not only wanted Hook dead for 200 years, he wants all her loved ones gone so that she isn't tempted to be good. It's probably Rump's idea for her to try to trick Hook to pull the sword. Joke would be on him if it worked.

 

I thought only the Rightful King of England could pull the sword in the stone out?

Edited October 6, 2015 by kili

[Souris]

I think in the end, Regina will pull the sword successfully, because she's just that much of a hero now.

 

Why would Dark Swan not try to trick Arthur into pulling it? Obviously he's the one person that has done it successfully. Is there some reason she wouldn't want him to do it?

 

Also, why is it back in the stone in the first place? Who put it back there? Arthur said it disappeared when he was transported to SB, but clearly he doesn't remember the six weeks, so it could have been taken from him at any point in there. Or did HE put it back & doesn't remember?

 

ETA: I wonder if David & Arthur encounter a Lady of the Lake again? The press release did make Arthur seem shady for insisting on going with David.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Souris

[Curio]

How can a thief be threatening Camelot people in Storybrook? Are they stealing the water? Why not just billet them in houses? They billeted the Storybrook people in their castle. Who would steal? Will disappeared. Is Dark Emma pranking them?

 

I would crack up if it was Robin stealing things.

[Mathius]

I'm pretty sure the thief is this Grif guy that's listed in the cast.

[YaddaYadda]

So 5x03, Lancelot's backstory and David in the present time?

 

And really, there is no shortage of heroes in Storybrooke to do Emma's bidding with the sword. She can start with her parents. David is pretty heroic if we discount the whole eggnapping. Or she could have Arthur do his job and pull the sword out before she steals the sword from him. 

 

I think they find out something about Hook in Camelot.

 

Also, since I don't think Percival was the boy in question from Regina's reign of terror and horror, because it doesn't fit the timeline, Grif, whom I'm assuming is Griflet might actually fit the bill.

 

There's no way Percival is the child who saw the destruction of his village when he was already likely an adult because of the very first scene we were shown in 5x01.

[KingOfHearts]

 

There's no way Percival is the child who saw the destruction of his village when he was already likely an adult because of the very first scene we were shown in 5x01.

Unless Camelot wasn't hit by the curse, nor the Cora Dome and simply went on through time normally. Then the Excalibur flashbacks in 5x01 were simply recent and Merlin is just really old.

 

Edit: Nevermind. Lancelot breaks that unless Nimue gave him immortality or something. Misread your first sentence.

Edited October 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

I think poor Lanelot is dead dead in the present. Why was "Arthur" in all-caps in the episode summary? They really need a copy-editor!

So, any guesses on what the Holy Grail equivalent on OUAT is going to be? I'm guessing Charms will earn the right to sit on the Siege Perilous at the Round Table.

We may finally get a scene of Snowing (or at least Charming) interacting with Dark Swan in Sb.

I think they find out something about Hook in Camelot.

Interesting. Why do you think that is the case?

[YaddaYadda]

Interesting. Why do you think that is the case?

 

It's obviously a speculation without knowing what's going to happen in 5x03, but in the promo Rumple tells her only a hero can pull the sword out of the stone.

 

Technically, only Arthur should be able to pull the sword out of the stone, and we find out what's at stake for Arthur and why he wants to assemble the sword. He mentioned to Guinevere that they might lose everything they worked so hard for. So that already raises a lot of questions. Has Arthur never had to pull his sword out of its scabbard? Has he never sword fought anyone? Is this secret known only by himself, Gwen, Lancelot and Percival?

 

I guess since they need a hero, then something must've happened that eliminates Arthur. But Emma has two parents who are considered heroes and David from what little spoilers we got for him is supposed to rediscover his heroism. Why isn't she going to her father to have him do what she wants to be done? 

 

Except for going to Rumple for deals, David has no relationship with the Dark One, that animosity doesn't exist the way it exists with Hook. But Emma is all dressed in her 1st date dress, looking like Emma, asking Hook if he loves her, asking him to trust her. Hook just discovered his heroism, and even then, he did not really believe enough in himself to accept it. But he's the one she's going to. This is why I think there's a lot more going on, not just with Emma, but also with Hook.

 

I think there's an actual "bond" between Hook and the sword. This is why I think she/they find out something about Hook during their stay in Camelot. As far as we know, the sword belongs to one person and one person only, and that person is the only one who should be able to pull it out of where it is. So why isn't Emma kidnapping Arthur and making him do it? Or why isn't she putting the bolder in his path so that he may retrieve the sword once more? She has magic, she can just steal it. I'm not saying that the sword belongs to Hook, but there's got to be a reason she believes Hook might be able to do this. And with one hand to boot. He must fill some kind of sword criteria, like he filled one of the hat criteria's last season.

 

The sword probably gets re-embedded in the stone in Camelot, but not by Emma or even Arthur. I think someone tried to get away from her and shoved it back in the stone and that's the reason it was transported that way. It could've been Merlin's doing in a last ditch effort to stop Emma.

 

ETA - I don't think Lancelot is dead in the present. In fact, I'm pretty sure he filmed scenes with Hook, David, Merlin and Belle in 5x06.

Edited October 7, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

Wasn't their scenes filmed with Lancelot and the gang? How can he be dead?

[LizaD]

I think Emma is simply going for Hook first because she actually wants to interact with him even if it is for a nefarious purpose. I don't think she wants to give the others the time of the day. We're only on ep.3 so we've got a long ways to go. Each episode she'll try to manipulate someone new probably. I say it'll happen in ep.8 after we get the story on Merlin and Nimue.

As for Arthur, maybe since the sword is his, she thinks its too risky to even let him near it. Or there's some other info she has that they don't want to give to us yet. I mean this is all post meeting Merlin so she/head Rump should have a whole lot of info the writers will eventually give up in all their master storytelling glory.

[Rumsy4]

I'm not saying that the sword belongs to Hook, but there's got to be a reason she believes Hook might be able to do this. 

 

Maybe Emma goes to Hook because she can hardly manipulate her dad or Arthur the way she could Hook. Hook is definitely going to feel conflicted.

 

The sword probably gets re-embedded in the stone in Camelot, but not by Emma or even Arthur. I think someone tried to get away from her and shoved it back in the stone and that's the reason it was transported that way. It could've been Merlin's doing in a last ditch effort to stop Emma.

 

I bet this is it. This is the key to the mystery of why Emma erased everyone's memories. Back in Camelot, either Arthur or Merlin stuck the Sword back into the stone to prevent Emma from getting hold of it. As long as they were in Camelot, only the Rightful King, ie, Arthur, could pull it out. Hence the Curse or whatever transporting everyone to Storybrooke. As Camelot doesn't exist in this Realm, any old Hero can pull Excalibur out of the stone. It doesn't have to be Arthur. 

 

PS: I don't remember the filming spoilers of Lancelot with Belle. If he is still alive, then perhaps Charms and Arthur come across him during their thrilling adventure hour. 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

I think this season is going to come down to Emma declaring she is neither the Saviour nor the Dark One, she is Emma fucking Swan and dammit no one tells her who or what she is. There's been too much about the titles and Emma's insistence that she is the now Dark One for it to be anything else. I can't tell if Emma is running the long con here and setting everyone up to be able to handle things once she's gone or not. Perhaps she's getting revenge for sacrificing her in Camelot all while preparing them to step up on their own when she sacrifices herself in Storybrooke.

 

They said everyone does get their memories back before the end of the season, so maybe that's what sets Hook off to jump from the roof. There's a prophecy that Emma must die or whatever, she's cut him off and he's desperate to convince her that there's another way and her destiny is not written. No matter what Merlin or anyone else might think. 

[regularlyleaded]

I think this season is going to come down to Emma declaring she is neither the Saviour nor the Dark One, she is Emma fucking Swan and dammit no one tells her who or what she is. There's been too much about the titles and Emma's insistence that she is the now Dark One for it to be anything else. I can't tell if Emma is running the long con here and setting everyone up to be able to handle things once she's gone or not. Perhaps she's getting revenge for sacrificing her in Camelot all while preparing them to step up on their own when she sacrifices herself in Storybrooke.

Yeah, I could see it playing out like that.

 

Earworm Rumpel may be telling Dark Emma all the ways she can kill the Light by uniting Excalibur and the dagger, but Dark Emma's big plan is actually to kill the darkness, and to do so required her to embrace the darkess...to a certain extent first (hence the glimpses of regular Emma in Dark Emma's interactions with Hook and Henry and her looking at everyone rather forlornly towards the end of 5x02). 

 

It's only two episodes in thus far, but the extent of Dark Emma's "darkness" is that she stoned Sneezy (which was easily reversed, so whatever) and she's making everyone take care of their own damn problems and purposefully distancing herself from them. Oh, yes, much evil. Lock your doors, kids! Dark Emma is gonna make you do your own homework! (That's not to say I want Dark Emma to be evil at all, because I don't. I like that's she's so far not really evil at all so much as just annoyed by the world. It's just funny that the marketing and promotion for this season has been "ZOMG! Emma's EEEVUL!" but so far as we've seen, that's really untrue.).

 

Maybe in Emma's mind she thinks it will be easier for them to deal with her death if they think she's already a lost cause? God knows Snowing are a bunch of quitters when it comes to her, so they won't be hard to convince. Hook will be the biggest obstacle. If this is Dark Emma's plan, I can see her having a real hard time convincing Hook her death is the only way. Sadly, if this speculation about Emma's motives is correct, I can also see the writers killing Emma off in 5x10. :((((((((

 

OT - I do a lot of fast forwarding through episodes, so I have a question: Was it confirmed that Dark Emma cast the curse or is everyone assuming that she did it because Emma said in 5x01 that they all needed to be punished. Without confirmation, I'm not entirely sure Emma really did cast the curse. I feel like the Storybrookers, a group people that have zero memories of what happened, are jumping to a lot of conclusions without any information whatsoever.

 

Truth be told, a lot of this plot reminds me of 3B. Actually, hehe, funny thought: What if Zelena cast this curse and memory wiped everyone again just like in 3B? If she's loose and in her Wicked Witch attire (which she's wearing in those spoiler pics) I could see it. Zelena's just faking being a captive while in Storybrooke. It wouldn't be the first time Zelena's faked something. And as a bonus, the reason Zelena cast the curse and memory wiped everyone again doesn't have to make sense because this is Zelena we're talking about, after all.

 

In all seriousness though, if Emma didn't cast the curse then she really might not be as bad as everyone is assuming and there is an actual Big Bad out there, such as whoever put Merlin in the tree.

Edited October 7, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[LizaD]

It hasn't really given me a satisfactory answer regarding her powerful magic. That's why I'm speculating genetic involvement.

Only if she's Merlin's kid! From the magic thread, I thought I'd answered this here cause it's sort of spoilery. When I read one of Elliot's interviews and he said they were going to explore the existence of magic with Merlin and that there was a link between Merlin and Emma, my first thought was hot damn they're finally going to explain why Emma has these super magic powers and it's probably cause of Merlin.

But then I remembered what show I was watching and that thought pretty much disappeared. I think we're just going to have to buy their true love baby thing. I don't know where they're going with Merlin and Emma but it probably won't make sense.

[KAOS Agent]

 

Was it confirmed that Dark Emma cast the curse or is everyone assuming that she did it because Emma said in 5x01 that they all needed to be punished. Without confirmation, I'm not entirely sure Emma really did cast the curse.

 

Emma said that she built this curse, not that she cast it. I don't think she was the caster. Dopey turned into an apple tree. People have been speculating on Nimue or Merlin, but it's possible that Regina cast it.

Edited October 7, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[regularlyleaded]

Emma said that she built this curse, not that she cast it. I don't think she was the caster. Dopey turned into an apple tree. People have been speculating on Nimue or Merlin, but it's possible that Regina cast it.

Ah, okay. Got it. Thanks, KAOS Agent. :)

[regularlyleaded]

It occurs to me that all the speculation of Dark Emma having a super secret motive outside of the one stated at the end of 5x02 could just be a lot of wishful thinking on our parts or, well, on my part anyway.
 
The split Dark Emma theory or Dark Emma actually planning the end of darkness are all starting to feel like I'm grasping at straws because I hate the idea of an evil Emma with every fiber of my being. I'm pulling all sorts of theories from the air when the simplest answer to what Dark Emma's plans are are exactly as they were stated by Earworm Rumpel at the end of 5x02 -- Dark Emma wants to use Excalibur to get rid of the Light for good and so she really is the Big Bad, and the writers finally got their happy ending and made Woegina The Savior (that's still a punch to the gut and makes me want to vomit). I really don't want this to be the story, but as we all know it's TS;TW. They've never been subtle about these things. I'm deluding myself to think they would be so now and that there's anything more hopeful going on.
 
....Please pardon my ramblings. I think I've been unwittingly going through the stages of grief in regards to this show and my favorite character, Emma, and after going through anger and denial, I think I've come to acceptance -- Emma really has been turned evil for having done something good. The unrepentant, homicidal sociopath Woegina is the new "savior". The Evil Queen and the writers' permaboner finally won. Hope is dead. I hate this show *crying on the inside*.
 
....I'm gonna go catch up with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. I hear the characters I like on that show haven't turned evil for saving people's lives, and the good guys put bad guys down.

[KAOS Agent]

If it helps, Ginny said that "the choices Emma makes as the Dark One are full of just as much integrity as the choices she makes as light Emma." Then again, this is a show that once again said Emma was going evil for selflessly helping someone at her own expense, so...

[regularlyleaded]

If it helps, Ginny said that "the choices Emma makes as the Dark One are full of just as much integrity as the choices she makes as light Emma."

That’s true. I recall she said that. But wasn’t that comment from a San Diego Comic Con interview and weren’t they still filming 5x01 at the time she said that? If so, then at that point Ginny wouldn't have known anything past 5x02. In that case, Ginny's comment was probably in reference to Emma in Camelot when Emma was The Dark One in name only -- where she used her powers to save Robin's life -- and not the Storybooke Dark Swan that we’re seeing now let alone anything to come.

(And honestly, ever since Ginny said in an interview that the naming of Snowflake was a really great, emotional choice that totally made sense and that the audience would love it, I started side-eying her interviews really hard. IMO Snowflakes naming was ghastly and distasteful. I mean no disrespect to Ginny, but I’m obviously not seeing this show with the same lenses that she does.)

 

Then again, this is a show that once again said Emma was going evil for selflessly helping someone at her own expense, so...

Yep. That's twice now that Emma is being written as going evil not because she did something wrong but just for putting the needs of others before herself and saving people's lives -- once to save Woegina and the town, and again to save Robin. Writing like that is why this show is so warped and twisted; saving lives makes you evil, but killing people willy-nilly and not regretting it makes you a saint. *sigh* With garbage like that being put on the screen hope is well and truly dead.

Thanks for trying though, KAOS Agent. I sincerely appreciate it. :)

[PixiePaws1]

From the The Price thread

Today. 2:57 am

VCRTracking, on 05 Oct 2015 - 4:49 PM, said:

    

    Dark Emma in the trench coat reminded me of Kim Novak in Vertigo. Dark Emma in the black sheath dress looked like all she needed was red lipstick and she'd look like she was in a Robert Palmer video.

Courtesy of gik910

A bit OT but ask and ye shall receive

https://instagram.com/p/8J90MjoFeL/

 

This instagram was clearly done for fun but what does it show us? Emma and David and she's holding a sword outside what looks like her new front door. I think that is the real door at the real house and although it looks like Josh is in his own clothes Emma is obviously in her DS cozzie.i can't imagine Jen ran off to the prop room/trailer to get the sword so she likey has it with her for a scene she is shooting at the house. DS and a sword outside . . .  it doesn't look like Excalibur (not big assed red jewel or very cool engraving)...anyone recognise the sword??

[Souris]

Just wanted to bring up that in the pre-premiere special, JMo's three words to describe the season were "misleading, dark & unity." I don't know when that special was filmed, but of anyone, I'd say she's the most clued-in to what's happening this season. So someone is being misled. I'm sure we are among the misled. That dovetails with A&E saying one of the themes of the season is that things aren't what they seem.

 

I'm not sure exactly what that means, just that probably we should expect something beyond face value.

 

Of course, one of Colin's words was "regal," so whatever happens, Regina will be a big part of it. (I hope he was also referring to Arthur.)

Edited October 7, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

I bet this is it. This is the key to the mystery of why Emma erased everyone's memories. Back in Camelot, either Arthur or Merlin stuck the Sword back into the stone to prevent Emma from getting hold of it. As long as they were in Camelot, only the Rightful King, ie, Arthur, could pull it out. Hence the Curse or whatever transporting everyone to Storybrooke. As Camelot doesn't exist in this Realm, any old Hero can pull Excalibur out of the stone. It doesn't have to be Arthur.

 

I agree to a certain extent that they might need a hero to pull the sword out because they're in SB and not in Camelot. The only thing that has me scratching my head is that there is magic in SB, so technically, shouldn't the same rules apply? At first, I thought that the conditions for the sword would have changed because it's no longer in Camelot, but then it behaved the same way with Emma that it did with Kay.

 

I hope the writers put as much effort in giving us answers that make sense for this arc as we are putting in trying to understand what's going on. I'd like for them to care enough to work on this.

[Souris]

"Regal" is probably just a reference to the fact that there's a heck of a lot of royalty hanging around this season between the Charmings, Arthur/Guinevere, Merida etc and Camelot is a very regal looking place. I just realised that "unity" must be a reference to the sword and dagger being made into one, just like the light and the dark being brought together in Emma, although it's possible Jen could be referring to everyone finally banding together to defeat the darkness towards the end, as this is what ~actually~ defeated the fury in 5x02. And there I go, joining the wishful thinking club *sigh*

I hope unity has multiple references.

[Shanna Marie]

It occurs to me that all the speculation of Dark Emma having a super secret motive outside of the one stated at the end of 5x02 could just be a lot of wishful thinking on our parts or, well, on my part anyway.

Didn't someone in some interview say something about how Emma has a secret that she's keeping from everyone else and from the audience, and that what's going on isn't what it seems? That's where I was getting the "she's faking being dark," which has now been blown to shreds, but still, there has been actual support for the idea that she has a super secret motive, and the way they made it sound, I think it's a secret that will be kept more than two episodes.

[Serena]

Is it possible that "Rumple" isn't actually in Emma's mind? Like, we've been assuming he's there for exposition and not really really, but what if he's some sort of demon/manifestation of Nimue/whatever and the things he's telling Emma are to get "free" from the dagger itself, or something similar?

[retrograde]

Isn't the secret Emma's keeping just what happened in Camelot?

[YaddaYadda]

Isn't the secret Emma's keeping just what happened in Camelot?

Likely. The interview said she was keeping a secret from the audience. And now that we know there's a missing 6 weeks and memories will be regained gradually, then yeah, it's really the audience that's in the dark (these writers are so weird in their interviews!) 

 

I'm guessing there's a bit of a doozy coming. They seem to be focused on 1 secret as opposed to a whole bunch of them.

[Shanna Marie]

Going back to that "CHARACTER goes full-on hero here" tease:

I actually think that writers room tease was referring to Charming in this next ep. Josh mentioned we'd be seeing Charming at his most heroic, and this ep seems to be the one that's about.

I thought it was more recent than that and was about the episode they were writing at the moment, so it would be later in the season. It's possible that I read way more into a simple statement than was intended, but I got the impression from the fact that they considered this an enticing tease that it would be a character we aren't used to seeing as a full-on hero, where it would be a surprising twist. I don't think that David being full-on hero is all that surprising, since he is Prince Charming.

 

One possibility might be blank-heart Rumple, finally not being a coward, but while this show has that warped morality, I have a hard time picturing that. Another possibility might be Hook -- they've started using the h-word for him, but when you think about it, he hasn't really had a full-on hero moment. He's usually more likely to be supportive of Emma being the hero, or he's been the victim. There was the AU sacrifice, but I'm not sure I'd call that full-on hero, since he was being pretty inept and getting himself killed rather than swooping in to save the day. But I'm kind of afraid it will be Regina, because these writers would probably think they were giving us a shocking twist to show someone who's been called a hero over and over again and who had the big "saving the day with light magic" moment being a full-on hero.

 

I've been thinking about Lancelot -- what if the Lancelot Snow and Charming met who married them wasn't really Lancelot but was Merlin in disguise, making sure Emma got born? That might help with the timeline because it would mean the sword-in-the-stone scene could have come at any time.

[YaddaYadda]

503 Stills

Emma seems to have it in for the dwarfs. Sneezy, now Happy and she's taken his pic ax to try and break the stone...

[mjgchick]

Emma is so mean to the Dwarves. lol

[OnceUponAJen]

Is she about to end Happy in that pic? And what are they digging for?

[Serena]

Maybe we'll finally find out which dwarf she hates! 

 

I'm guessing they're digging for some gizmo that's gonna help her join the dagger and Excalibur.

[Souris]

Is it possible that "Rumple" isn't actually in Emma's mind? Like, we've been assuming he's there for exposition and not really really, but what if he's some sort of demon/manifestation of Nimue/whatever and the things he's telling Emma are to get "free" from the dagger itself, or something similar?

 

Is that asshole still trying to CLEAVE himself from the dagger, even if he's not the Dark One anymore??

 

Going back to that "CHARACTER goes full-on hero here" tease:

I thought it was more recent than that and was about the episode they were writing at the moment, so it would be later in the season. 

 

I was considering that it could also be the ep or dailies they were about to watch. Brigitte has referred to them doing both those things at various times. I'd have to go back and do the filming timeline vs. her posting calculations to be sure of the timing whether that made sense, though.

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe we'll finally find out which dwarf she hates!

 

So far, she seems to hate them all equally.

 

Sneezy, Dopey (but he got bullied across the town line), Happy and his pick ax, next week she'll break doc's glasses.

[tri4335]

 

next week she'll break doc's glasses

 

Nah she'll take out his Miata again!

[kili]

Is she about to end Happy in that pic?

 

There is a lot of blood on her dagger in one picture. Happy was one of the dwarves that went to Camelot.

[RadioGirl27]

But I'm kind of afraid it will be Regina, because these writers would probably think they were giving us a shocking twist to show someone who's been called a hero over and over again and who had the big "saving the day with light magic" moment being a full-on hero.

Well, of course it would be Regina. They are not going to let anyone else stand out. I think Emma is going to save herself (maybe choosing love over darkness), but Regina is going to be the one that destroys the Darkness once and for all, being crowned as the biggest hero ever.

 

Emma is so mean to the Dwarves. lol

I think we have discovered her new hobby :-)

Edited October 7, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Curio]

Another possibility might be Hook -- they've started using the h-word for him, but when you think about it, he hasn't really had a full-on hero moment.

 

I'd say following Emma down Zelena's time portal was pretty damn heroic. Also, outrunning the curse and trading his ship was a very heroic off screen event, so it'd be nice to actually see something on screen that's heroic.

 

I wonder if there's any significance to Emma stealing Happy's pickaxe, or if he was just the easiest one to steal from.

[YaddaYadda]

There is a lot of blood on her dagger in one picture.

 

I don't see the dagger anywhere in the stills. There's one thing that looks like it could be it, but it's a handkerchief that's blue and red.

[formerlyfreedom]

Please, folks - keep the conversation to Spoiler Discussion. Future off-topic posts may be deleted without explanation.

[YaddaYadda]

I wonder if there's any significance to Emma stealing Happy's pickaxe, or if he was just the easiest one to steal from.

 

I think she takes it because he has a shovel in his hands.