Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Scovies]

They're apparently shooting a scene with Colin and JMo on the street below the library right now, so I'm guessing she shows up and saves him.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Scovies

[KAOS Agent]

If Emma doesn't show up to save him, there will be a whole ton of Hook fans who'll need to be talked off the ledge Hook fell from. 

 

It sounds like Hook was getting increasingly panicked as he called her name and they said it looked like he was being pushed toward the edge, so I think there are other forces at work here. I'm fairly certain that Dark Emma is not the main villain of the half season, but I guess we'll see. When did repeating the Dark One's name become the signal to call him/her? Henry does it in the next ep and now it sounds like Hook does the same here.

[kili]

It sounds like Hook was getting increasingly panicked as he called her name and they said it looked like he was being pushed toward the edge, so I think there are other forces at work here.

 

 

I'm telling you, Mary Poppins is in Storybook. Just watch "Saving Mr. Banks" and you'll realize Mary was put through the sugar mill for that movie.

 

Okay, it's not Mary. She is still under copyright and the author never wanted Disney near her work again. But if he is being forced over the edge, that means somebody else evil is in town. Why would they want to kill Hook? Maybe he knows something or maybe he is one of the few things tethering Emma a little to the light side. If she loses him, she might go even darker. Merlin is the new magical guy in town, so it is probably him threatening Hook (though maybe Rumple got some powers back - he's always up for some Hook torturing).

 

When did repeating the Dark One's name become the signal to call him/her? Henry does it in the next ep and now it sounds like Hook does the same here.

Last season Ruth wouldn't say Rumple's name because she was afraid of him - she wrote it down for Anna. It seemed often that people just had to think about doing a deal with Rumple and he would pop up.

[Souris]

This person said one take looked maybe like someone was pushing him, but the next take was different and didn't. I think he jumped, perhaps to desperately prove that there's still good in Dark Swan and that she still cares for him. Let us not forget that this is the show that made Henry deliberately eat a poison apple turnover and Emma jump overboard to get everyone's attention in Neverland.

 

Nobody can hear the dialogue or see the Hook/Dark Swan scene on the street, so no way to know if it's pre-jump or post-jump. I strongly suspect pre-jump. Or it's not actually tied to the jump at all and is a different night.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Souris

[tatterd]

 

I think he jumped, perhaps to desperately prove that there's still good in Dark Swan and that she still cares for him.

 

Please no.  I mean I'm not disputing that this show is quite capable of going there, but honestly it's a wonder Hook survived the however many hundred years he's been alive given the stupid plans he's been shown coming up with ever since he met people from Storybrooke. 

 

I could actually see it being somebody/something else pushing him over the edge given Emma's reaction at the end of the first episode.  She sort of looks at him when she says about what they did to her and turns to the others when she says about punishing them, but she seems much less antagonistic to him than she was to Snow.  So maybe what they did to her involved doing something to him, rather than him being involved in whatever they did to her (if that's not too confusingly put).    

[KAOS Agent]

There's a great message for the kids. Your girlfriend is avoiding you, go jump off a roof to get her attention. No. Just no. 

[Rumsy4]

I seem to remember characters saying Rumple's name three times to summon him in the EF.

 

From the spoiler article: O’Donoghue changed it up for one take calling Bella Swan (Twilight) instead of Emma Swan for a laugh.
Hehehe

 

I don't think Hook is going to jump on purpose. At least I hope not. Because that would be idiotic beyond belief..

[Serena]

I don't think Hook is going to jump on purpose. At least I hope not. Because that would be idiotic beyond belief..

I think he is. I think she's gone off the deep end and he wants to prove Emma is still there deep down, and so he jumps. Since Dark Swan's whole schtick is that she won't help, he's making her help. But maybe he makes Regina give him some sort of potion/spell to cushion the fall?

[Selina K]

There's a great message for the kids. Your girlfriend is avoiding you, go jump off a roof to get her attention. No. Just no.

Maybe Hook read Twilight: New Moon in his free time.

Calling Emma's name three times - apparently Beetlejuice was a Dark One. Or Hook and Henry had a Captain Cobra Netflix scene where they caught up on a bunch of movies in Offscreenville.

 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Selina K

[Rumsy4]

I think he is. I think she's gone off the deep end and he wants to prove Emma is still there deep down, and so he jumps. Since Dark Swan's whole schtick is that she won't help, he's making her help. 

 

Oh dear. Well... as Hook is clearly not actually dying, Emma must have showed up to save him. He's going to get the talking to of his life! :-p

[Selina K]

From the spoiler article: O’Donoghue changed it up for one take calling Bella Swan (Twilight) instead of Emma Swan for a laugh.

Hehehe

 

See, I hadn't even read that when I made my original post.  That's fairly awesome.

[CatMack]

Knowing there are probably a fair number of audience members with suicidal ideation issues, even just the thought that Hook might "try" to kill himself to get Emma's attention is gross beyond belief. Like, threatening to harm yourself to get a loved one to focus on you is a form of emotional abuse. I don't really care what the extenuating circumstances are. "It's a fantasy show" or "its magic" are the arguments inevitably dragged out to defend this kind of crap as not really counting as abuse (see also Scott Nimfroe's abhorrent tweets about Zelena raping Robin, or rather not raping him "because it's fantasy)) and I hate it because it misses the entire point of fantasy (and scifi) fiction. If normal human emotions don't count because magic, then why should I care? And if they do count, stop writing abuse and rape if you're not going to actually treat it like abuse and rape.

[PixiePaws1]

'Context' people. .

I seriously doubt, Killian would jump off a building because Emma isn't paying him enough attention. I can entertain the idea that he had just reached his breaking point and in absolute despair simply didn't want to live in a world where he finally believed his True Love was irrevocably the Dark One and lost to him forever. But I would think any true suicide attempt by him would be throwing himself into the sea. ...never on dry land.

I also don't believe he would try to kill himself in anger and it sounds like he is very angry. Given the tone he uses shouting her name she must have done something very, very bad. ...or someone is controlling him (ep 8 is about time for someone to have cursed some part of him).

[YaddaYadda]

Since I've been thinking for a while that Emma's turn to the dark is directly related to Hook, I can't say I'm surprised by him jumping or being shoved off the library roof.

 

Plus I think this is the episode we find out why Emma embraced the darkness and why she feels the people she loves failed her. I'm almost positive I know why she erased everyone's memories.

[Serena]

Plus I think this is the episode we find out why Emma embraced the darkness and why she feels the people she loves failed her. I'm almost positive I know why she erased everyone's memories.

Do share!

 

Isn't this episode's title "Birth"? Maybe it means the birth of the Dark Swan. If this is when we see how Emma gave in to the darkness in flashbacks, there should be the beginnings of the opposite in present time (the Nevengers making some progress in bringing Emma back). And then there's two episodes (509 and 510) to wrap up the arc.

[HoodlumSheep]

Man, what have I missed? About the Hook jumping stuff, I have no idea what to think. This is a show where Henry willingly ate a poison apple to prove a point. But then again, I like to think A&E wouldn't screw up CS after doing a good job with them thus far. So, I'll stay optimistic and hope that it's an outside force and different different baddie that's causing this. If they show part of the jump, I wonder if we'll get to see that Hook dummy from Poor Unfortunate Soul again. :D

Edited October 2, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Curio]

Knowing there are probably a fair number of audience members with suicidal ideation issues, even just the thought that Hook might "try" to kill himself to get Emma's attention is gross beyond belief. Like, threatening to harm yourself to get a loved one to focus on you is a form of emotional abuse.

 

I understand how a scene like jumping off the side of a building can be jarring for people who might have considered those those thoughts before, but this isn't the first time someone on the show has put their life on the line with the belief that their True Love would come through in the end.

 

• Charming put his life out on the line and jumped in front of Snow's arrow.
• Snow bit into the poisonous apple knowing it would send her into a death-like sleep.
• Henry bit into the apple turnover knowing it would temporarily kill him.
• Emma jumped off the Jolly Roger in the middle of a storm with deadly mermaids in the water.
• Henry handed over his heart to Pan.
• Emma sacrificed herself to the darkness with the belief that everyone would bring her back to her true self.

 

Is this scene just scarier than the others because it doesn't have as much of a fantasy element to it? It's hard for us to comprehend eating an apple turnover that sends you into a death-like sleep, but it's closer to home when someone physically falls?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Curio

[HoodlumSheep]

I hope Hook doesn't jump on purpose, mainly because I won't be able to take all the uproar the anti-'s will make about it. They'll definitely pull the "emotionally abusive card" and Hook will get hounded. Never mind any of the previous instances where characters have pulled the same stunt (like the ones Curio has listed), oh no. Those will stay romantic and "look at how much they believe in one another!" Hook will get slammed, and I'm just tired of it. To think a show about fairy tales would turn me into an old, bitter & weary soul (and I'm only 22).

[FierceAfroChick]

I’m not going to worry about the Hook roof scene until I see it in its entire context.  But I have an inkling that he's going to lose the kid gloves when it comes to dealing with his woman and this may be the result of it.

Edited October 2, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[ABitOFluff]

Looking at the video of that jump, the stuntman jumps to clear the building, but the actual fall doesn't look like it's deliberate at all. I'm thinking something pushes him.

[HoodlumSheep]

Oh, and I guess this is the official starting point for the annual "Hook is going to die!" rumors. I know it was mentioned however many pages back, so we can officially check it off the list.

Edited October 2, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[sharky]

I doubt Hook would ever jump. If he looks like he's being pulled or pushed, I wonder if he's calling out Emma's name because she is the one controlling him somehow. We have to remember that just because no one else was there doesn't mean anything. They could edit the scene with something they shoot later to make it look like there's an interaction between Hook and someone else, or they may be adding CGI later. Hook prides himself on being a survivor. He became a pirate when his brother died and went to Neverland when his beloved was murdered. He never tried to kill himself after those profound deaths. Why would he do it when his girlfriend goes dark?

[HoodlumSheep]

It is kind of nice not knowing what the heck is going on for once though. How many episodes in are they filming, and everyone is still frazzled and confused. Hook could be jumping off of his own free will, someone (Emma, Merlin, Nimue, who knows?) could be pushing him. Lots of possibilities.

[FierceAfroChick]

I'm curious as to why he's on the roof in the first place. Is he looking for something?  Does he get better reception when he’s calling for the Dark One? 

 

I’d wager that he’s up there for a reason other than intentional jumping, that whatever he discovers up there pisses him off and he calls for Emma to help him deal with it?  And then maybe he isn’t aware that someone/something else is on the roof with him and he’s pushed.

[ABitOFluff]

It is kind of nice not knowing what the heck is going on for once though. How many episodes in are they filming, and everyone is still frazzled and confused. Hook could be jumping off of his own free will, someone (Emma, Merlin, Nimue, who knows?) could be pushing him. Lots of possibilities.

I think the scene looks pretty cool!

 

Well, Hook has to come close to death at least once each half season, and he already died in 4B. He'll be okay. :D

[Curio]

Hook prides himself on being a survivor. He became a pirate when his brother died and went to Neverland when his beloved was murdered. He never tried to kill himself after those profound deaths. Why would he do it when his girlfriend goes dark?

 

I don't know, I thought Hook was pretty suicidal during Season 2 when he was doing his last ditch effort to kill Rumple. Jumping in front of a car? Egging Rumple on when he was beating Hook up with his cane so he could be reunited with Milah? Purposely shooting Belle to piss off the Dark One? That's the behavior of a man who doesn't give a shit about his life anymore.

 

But our current Hook does give a shit. He's not going to risk his life if he doesn't think there's a high probability that he'll survive. Yes, he's willing to put himself into risky situations, but he's survived for 300 years now, so I think he knows a thing or two about not dying. If he does jump off the building, it's not because he wants to end his life—he'll do it because he's completely confident that Emma will magic him away from the ground.

 

We complain about the show not having high enough stakes, and when there's an event that finally has high stakes, they're too high. Sometimes the writers just can't win. A lot of people complained that the Shattered Sight Spell was pointless because an event that should have been incredibly scary and life-threatening was reduced to a Marx Brothers comedy hour where no one died. With this Dark Swan arc, I expect the stakes to be the highest they've ever been, and if that involves someone putting their life out on the line just so they can get through to the Dark One, then at least they're finally raising the stakes on this show.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Do share!

Isn't this episode's title "Birth"? Maybe it means the birth of the Dark Swan. If this is when we see how Emma gave in to the darkness in flashbacks, there should be the beginnings of the opposite in present time (the Nevengers making some progress in bringing Emma back). And then there's two episodes (509 and 510) to wrap up the arc.

 

 

I agree that this the episode that will reveal what happened to Emma and why she either gave up the fight or made the conscious decision to embrace the darkness. This is probably the episode when we might be done with the Camelot flashbacks.

 

My thinking is pretty straight forward actually. I think that we are going to have a David situation like we did back in 3B.  JMo has said that Henry and Hook are her biggest weaknesses, and since I think everyone will be putting a lot of stock in these prophecies since Merlin is allegedly never wrong, I think he is going to sacrifice himself for her and no one will be stopping him, especially if they think he is the solution to getting rid of the darkness.

 

I'm thinking Emma might flip her shit and do something spectacularly nuts like kill Merlin where he stands. We know as of 5x06, she is in possession of the dagger, so there's no one to control her.

[FierceAfroChick]

I agree that this the episode that will reveal what happened to Emma and why she either gave up the fight or made the conscious decision to embrace the darkness. This is probably the episode when we might be done with the Camelot flashbacks.

 

My thinking is pretty straight forward actually. I think that we are going to have a David situation like we did back in 3B.  JMo has said that Henry and Hook are her biggest weaknesses, and since I think everyone will be putting a lot of stock in these prophecies since Merlin is allegedly never wrong, I think he is going to sacrifice himself for her and no one will be stopping him, especially if they think he is the solution to getting rid of the darkness.

 

I'm thinking Emma might flip her shit and do something spectacularly nuts like kill Merlin where he stands. We know as of 5x06, she is in possession of the dagger, so there's no one to control her.

 

Are you talking about sacrificing himself by jumping off the roof?   Or are you thinking Hook sacrifices himself in Camelot?  And that everyone else encouraged it without Emma’s knowledge?  Yeah I can see her flipping her shit at them if this is what happens.  But if Hook does die in Camelot, how does he make it to Storybrooke alive?

 

And when was the last time Merlin filmed?  If Emma killed him in Camelot because she’s distraught over Hook dying again, then I can see this as the catalyst for her succumbing to the darkness.

Edited October 2, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[RadioGirl27]

Is this scene just scarier than the others because it doesn't have as much of a fantasy element to it? It's hard for us to comprehend eating an apple turnover that sends you into a death-like sleep, but it's closer to home when someone physically falls?

Yeah, at least for me. Maybe it’s because I work with kids and teenagers, but I’m incredibly grossed out by the idea of them having him jump of a roof to get Emma’s attention. It’s a terrible message to send (”Hey boys, if your girlfriend doesn’t listen to you, jump of a roof”). It's nothing new in the icky morality of this show, but it's still terrible.

[Serena]

Are you talking about sacrificing himself by jumping off the roof?   Or are you thinking Hook sacrifices himself in Camelot?  And that everyone else encouraged it without Emma’s knowledge?  Yeah I can see her flipping her shit at them if this is what happens.  But if Hook does die in Camelot, how does he make it to Storybrooke alive?

 

And when was the last time Merlin filmed?  If Emma killed him in Camelot because she’s distraught over Hook dying again, then I can see this as the catalyst for her succumbing to the darkness.

Maybe he doesn't die? Maybe there's a ritual (like YaddaYadda said - a David situation) where he's supposed to die, and everyone goes along with it, but Emma finds out at the last moment, stops the ritual (which was maybe a last ditch effort to stop the darkness from spreading?). The ritual failing, plus the anger Emma feels at them for allowing it, equals the birth of the Dark Swan. 

 

RE: Lana's latest Q&A. It's so ridiculous that they want us to buy Regina's never been to a ball. But I guess, since Emma has had the "first time at a ball" thing, of course Regina needs to have it also.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Serena

[Souris]

I see three ways it could go:

 

1) Emma poofs Hook to safety before he hits the ground, then they talk. This seems to be what the vast majority of people think happens, so it doesn’t require a lot of delving into. Though clearly Hook is desperate to find/reach Emma and still believes she cares for him. This is the show that had Henry deliberately eat a poisoned apple turnover and Emma jump overboard to get everyone’s attention in Neverland. They don’t shy from drastic actions. Even if they're stupid or real-world problematic.

 

2) The talking scene is set at some previous time, Emma doesn’t save Hook, and he ends up in the hospital -- explaining the return of Dr. Whale. We’ll see if David Anders tweets about being on set in the next couple of days.

 

If this is the case, I imagine Hook jumping would be the totally evil “cliffhanger” for 5x08, to entice people to come back after a week’s break for the awards show on ABC Nov. 22 between eps 8 & 9.

 

There was some thought that maybe somebody saw Emma on the roof during part of his jumping scene, though totally unconfirmed, so maybe she’s simply standing there watching him jump to his possible death and he doesn’t realize it. That would certainly show how far gone Dark Swan is, and would definitely be the darkest part of the arc.

 

3) Something is pushing him. I don't really put much stock in this theory because of the Gold's shop scene, where Hook is clearly desperately trying to find her.

[FierceAfroChick]

RE: Lana's latest Q&A. It's so ridiculous that they want us to buy Regina's never been to a ball. But I guess, since Emma has had the "first time at a ball" thing, of course Regina needs to have it also.

 

I can't wait for Regina and Robin to get sucked into the past, where they run into Past Robin and Robin gets jealous of whatever contrived interaction goes down between Regina/Past Robin and shoots his other self in the ass with an arrow.  This shit is totally going to happen.

Edited October 2, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[YaddaYadda]

Are you talking about sacrificing himself by jumping off the roof?   Or are you thinking Hook sacrifices himself in Camelot?  And that everyone else encouraged it without Emma’s knowledge?  Yeah I can see her flipping her shit at them if this is what happens.  But if Hook does die in Camelot, how does he make it to Storybrooke alive?

 

And when was the last time Merlin filmed?  If Emma killed him in Camelot because she’s distraught over Hook dying again, then I can see this as the catalyst for her succumbing to the darkness.

 

In Camelot, not in Storybrooke. I don't know why he is jumping off the roof, if he is being pushed or jumping willingly.

 

I don't think he is encouraged to sacrifice himself as much as no one will speak up against it, or make little effort to stop him. I don't think anyone will be "we'll find another solution." I think that's the whole reason his hook is now enchanted. Plus doing something like this without Emma knowing about it? It's them going behind her back and taking part of that decision from her.

 

So far, from what we've seen, Hook and Henry aren't just her weakness, they're also her strength, so if they take that away from her, even with the best of intentions, then yeah, they did something to her that she might not be willing to forgive or forget. If Hook is part of the solution to this Dark One problem (and I think the connection runs a lot deeper) and they are following some prophecy from Merlin, then she won't be pleased.

 

I think all Merlin is showing Emma is how to control herself, and I think he's done the same thing with Nimue. And whatever happens to Nimue that turns her batshit crazy is about to happen to Emma too, because I'm starting to think that while Merlin does see the future, he doesn't see it clearly enough. He knows the start and the end result, I don't think he knows how you get from point A to point B.

 

I think the only reason Hook is alive in SB is because of the David situation. You know they will be going there with CS too. I won't be shocked if Emma is walking around Storybrooke without her heart.

 

RE: Lana's latest Q&A. It's so ridiculous that they want us to buy Regina's never been to a ball. But I guess, since Emma has had the "first time at a ball" thing, of course Regina needs to have it also.

 

I could buy her not having gone to a ball before she was married to Leopold. But once that happened? I don't know. Afterwards, she was busy chasing after Snow and slaughtering villages. 

Edited October 2, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[RadioGirl27]

There was some thought that maybe somebody saw Emma on the roof during part of his jumping scene, though totally unconfirmed, so maybe she’s simply standing there watching him jump to his possible death and he doesn’t realize it. That would certainly show how far gone Dark Swan is, and would definitely be the darkest part of the arc.

Rumple would have never let Belle kill herself, not even at his worst. So if they have Emma seeing what he is doing and not stopping him, I think it would ruin both the character and the relationship beyond repair. Maybe not for that people in Tumblr that finds the idea of "Hook jumps of a roof to reach to Emma" romantic, but for the few casual viewers left, for sure.

Edited October 2, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Shanna Marie]

I could buy her not having gone to a ball before she was married to Leopold. But once that happened? I don't know. Afterwards, she was busy chasing after Snow and slaughtering villages.

She seemed to have spent her entire marriage either sulking in her room and avoiding her husband and stepdaughter or sneaking out to train with Rumple. So maybe there were royal balls and she didn't bother to show up or just put in some face time, glowering in a corner without dancing or mingling, before leaving in a huff because no one noticed her. Though you'd think the queen would have to at least do the opening dance with the king.

[Curio]

TVF: Safe to say that for the Ball that Eduardo [Castro, Costume Designer] has an amazing gown for you to wear?

 

LP: Yes, he does. It’s very unlike Regina in every way. [laughs] It’s kind of like what Regina would think her mother would want her in. It’s just how Regina understands these things. You’ll see, there’s a funny moment when Regina actually changes when she changes into these ball gowns. She actually transforms into one costume and then they’re like, ‘No’ but this is what Regina would want to wear and then she’s like, ‘Okay, fine.’ Then she transforms into this more princess-like gown and I find Regina always thinks ‘Okay, what would my mother want me to wear? I’m always off. I never get it right so what would my mother want me to wear.’

 

Man, why couldn't we have gotten this kind of scene when Emma was choosing her pink dress last year?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Curio

[Serena]

Well, at least it's gonna be hilarious to see the preparations. I can imagine it.

Regina: *poofs herself in one of her usual dresses*

Charming: Girl, you look cray. Try again.

 

Even if I stretched myself and believe Regina has never been to a ball, I will not believe she needs CHARMING to teach her to dance. You know Cora made sure she had all the queen-ly skills locked down. Please.

[YaddaYadda]

Man, why couldn't we have gotten this kind of scene when Emma was choosing her pink dress last year?

 

Because her name is not Regina? 

 

Even if I stretched myself and believe Regina has never been to a ball, I will not believe she needs CHARMING to teach her to dance.

That would suck based on episode 3x14 and David showing Emma how to dance in his dream.

 

I guess Regina claiming the Savior title as a charade gets a ball and a dance with Not!Daddy. I don't even think Emma will attend, and if she attends, I can see her getting pissed that this is being taken from her.

Edited October 2, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Mari]

Um . . . But Regina attended the very ball that was Emma's first ball. She showed up at The engagement ball, made snarky comments, and eventually hauled Emma away.

What on earth are they thinking?

[Souris]

What on earth are they thinking?

 

Oh, poor, pitiful Regina! She's never been to a ball! She doesn't know how to dance! Love her, pet her, worship her!

[Curio]

Um . . . But Regina attended the very ball that was Emma's first ball. She showed up at The engagement ball, made snarky comments, and eventually hauled Emma away.

What on earth are they thinking?

 

According to Lana, "She’s been to one but she’s never really participated. She’s never been invited to the dance floor and that is a shock to all who knew her in Fairy Tale Land. Being a ‘princess and Queen,’ she’s never really dived into that world."

 

The last sentence doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't being a princess and queen automatically mean you've attended a bunch of balls before? Do they really expect us to believe she ditched out on every single ball she's ever attended?

 

This might end up being the most Mary Sue moment I've ever witnessed on a TV series ever.

[Mari]

But this is honestly an idea that has absolutely no sense behind it.  Are they seriously trying to tell us that a woman who grew up in a (okay, minor, but still) royal household, with an enormously controlling and social climbing mother, and then spent ten years married to a king has never been to a ball?

 

 

 

Even if I stretched myself and believe Regina has never been to a ball, I will not believe she needs CHARMING to teach her to dance. You know Cora made sure she had all the queen-ly skills locked down. Please.

 

 

This is exactly it. 

 

It is absolutely ridiculous if they are expecting us to believe that.

 

• No presentation ball for Regina?  Yeah, right.  Like Cora would allow her to skip that.
• No marriage ball when she married Leopold?  Um.  . . huh?
• No presentation ball for Snow?  (Because Snow seemed to be marriageable age when Leopold died.  There'd've been a presentation ball.)

 

And that's ignoring the balls we've seen her at on the show--Prince Eric's Under the Sea ball,  Charming and Abigail's engagement ball  . . . and wasn't there a ball in season 1 where we saw her angrily skulking around?

 

She spent 35-40 years in a land where they have balls for any and every reason.  30ish of those years were spent either under the world's most determined social climber, who had social access, or married to the head of state, where she would be expected to attend.

 

This is a weird thing for them to decide to have for a "first" for Regina.  How about her first post-curse conscience twinge?  Or her first apology to her "family" or even her first time at a  ball as a parent?

 

(Could this be one of those things that causes Regina resentment in Regina neutral people?)

 

ETA:

"She’s been to one but she’s never really participated. She’s never been invited to the dance floor and that is a shock to all who knew her in Fairy Tale Land. Being a ‘princess and Queen,’ she’s never really dived into that world."

Not remotely plausible.

So, no one invited her to dance at her own presentation or wedding balls?  No one tried to suck up to the widowed evil queen when she crashed their ball? 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Mari

[YaddaYadda]

(Could this be one of those things that causes Regina resentment in Regina neutral people?)

 

I don't know how Regina neutral I am, but I resent the hell out of the implication that not only she's never really attended a ball, but might need to be taught by David. GTFO! Ask Robin to teach you! 

[Serena]

And that's ignoring the balls we've seen her at on the show--Prince Eric's Under the Sea ball,  Charming and Abigail's engagement ball  . . . and wasn't there a ball in season 1 where we saw her angrily skulking around?

Yes. I think it was "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree". It was Leopold's birthday ball, and he was like "here's my daughter Snow, isn't she great?" and that was some great affront to the Queen, apparently.

 

This is making me think about the pic Ginny posted of Jen (dressed as Dark Swan) with her head on Josh's shoulder (dressed in Camelot clothes, someone should check if those are the same clothes he's wearing while dancing with Regina) and she captioned it "Father/Savior Dance". Considering *Regina* is the Savior in this episode, and Charming is having a Father/Savior dance with Regina... was she throwing the world's subtlest shade? 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Serena

[CatMack]

Since we don't know the context of the scene I'm not grabbing a pitch fork yet. My reaction was entirely based on the speculation of others that he jumps to get Emma's attention. Threat of self harm is a very common emotional manipulation in abusive relationships, and just because Hook/Emma haven't been abusive thus far doesn't mean that tactic is any less gross. That kind of manipulation is very different from risking harm to help or save someone else which is why these examples

• Charming put his life out on the line and jumped in front of Snow's arrow.
• Snow bit into the poisonous apple knowing it would send her into a death-like sleep.
• Henry bit into the apple turnover knowing it would temporarily kill him.
• Emma jumped off the Jolly Roger in the middle of a storm with deadly mermaids in the water.
• Henry handed over his heart to Pan.
• Emma sacrificed herself to the darkness with the belief that everyone would bring her back to her true self.

are in no way comparable IMO. Most of these are examples of someone risking themselves to save someone else, not to manipulate someone's emotions. The only one even kind of comparible is Emma jumping into the water, and I DID have an issue with that, though mostly it was such a profoundly stupid and out of nowhere action that I was too bemused to get upset.

We don't know that Hook is jumping of his own volition, much less what his motives are if he is. There has been other speculation that doesn't bother me. But that specific scenario, Hook trying to harm himself to get a reaction out of Emma, would be completely gross. These writers had Robin acknowledge in screen that he was an unwilling participant in having sex with Zelena (ie the definition of rape) and then had her making "sassy" jokes about his performance. There's no way in hell I think they'd ever handle a situation like intentional threats of self harm with anything resembling tact.

[regularlyleaded]

Re: Lana's interview -  I call bullshit. They want me to believe that Cora, who was grooming Regina to become queen, never once took her to a ball and made her participate, never had a big birthday ball or took her to a court ball where she had to dance with suitors once? Not once? That when Regina married Leopold there wasn't a ball, that on Snow's or Leopold's or even Regina's birthdays, there were no balls where she had to participate, you know, because she was the queen?
I.
Call.
BULLSHIT.

And we saw at least one on screen ball where Regina went in all her queenly regalia, the ball Emma and Hook crashed, but the writers want us to feel bad that Regina didn't get to enjoy that ball because she was too busy trying to murder people to really have a good time. Well, my heart fucking bleeds.

Oh, and this little nugget by Lana:

But [Regina's] own commitment to self and her desire to be a better person and to change is very admirable and very inspiring. That’s why I see her not only as a hero but as a healer.

Yes, refraining from murdering people is so inspiring. I know I'm inspired when people do the absolute minimum to be human and get hailed heroes. Do you guys here that incessant beeping? That's the sound of a dumpster backing up through your screen to dump a load of bullshit on you.

Hey, ONCE writers, Kim Jong-Un called, he wants his propaganda writing team back. He needs to convince his oppressed subjects that he invented fire, water, oxygen, and all life on the planet.
 
Another tidbit from the interview:

It’s nice to see Jen explore this side of Emma because she was born with darkness

You didn't watch 4B did you, Lana. Emma was quite literally born darkness free! Please see 4B and the egg-napping plot. Though, most of us would like to pretend 4B didn't happen, so maybe I'll give you a pass on this one.

Can Regina just fall off the cliff and die now, just like the Evil Queen did in Snow White? Just die like she's supposed to. Because that would really make my day, year, and life.
 
 

I resent the hell out of the implication that not only she's never really attended a ball, but might need to be taught by David. GTFO!

My current status on this topic:

Edited October 3, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[Rumsy4]

At this point, I want Emma to waltz into a spin-off with Hook, and leave everyone behind. A dance with Charming at her first freaking ball. Snowing might as well go through with the charade, and adopt Regina as their daughter. 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

At this point, I want Emma to waltz into a spin-off with Hook, and leave everyone behind. A dance with Charming at her first freaking ball. Snowing might as well go through with the charade, and adopt Regina as their daughter. 

 

I'm so hoping the jig is up the second Regina is not able to savior anything in Camelot.

[Serena]

Do we think it's Arthur that conjures up the harphy or whatever to test Regina's Saviorness?

And also, if this is post Lancelot being banished "because of a woman", why is Guineveve still there? Arthur has already forgiven her?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

Do we think it's Arthur that conjures up the harphy or whatever to test Regina's Saviorness?

 

I think he might. Him and Percival from what little we saw seemed a bit confused.

 

And also, if this is post Lancelot being banished "because of a woman", why is Guineveve still there? Arthur has already forgiven her?

We don't know when Lancelot was banished and if he was even banished at all. I'm curious to see if they're going down the whole they had an affair road.