Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[kili]

Regina goes to her 1st ball! An unexpected teacher shows her the moves!

Tables flipped all over the place. 

 

Okay, I'm calling shenanigans on Regina never having been to a ball before. Shenanigans. Shenanigans. Shenanigans. She was the daughter of a Prince. She must have been to a ball or two. Then, she was a Queen. Did she and Leopold never host a ball. EVER? They never got invited to one? 

 

And finally, she has been to a ball. We saw it. She went to Prince James engagement ball which was also attended by Prince Charles and Princess Leia at King Midas's palace. She may not have danced because she was too busy arresting prisoners, but she was at the ball.

 

My table flipping though isn't over the shenanigans...it's because Charming had always wanted to take his daughter to the ball. He might have missed her first ball (well he was there, but he didn't know it), but he should at least be spending the moments before with her, not with Regina. They dragged Hood along to the EF, why doesn't he make himself useful for once and teach Regina how to dance? Blergh! Blergh! Blergh! 

 

This Camelot Arc is all just to give Regina her "lost" childhood, isn't it?

Edited September 30, 2015 by kili

[Souris]

It's the way things seem to be heading so far with giving her the dagger, to the sneak peek blatantly talking about how there's not a Savior anymore to Regina.

 

I do think she'll keep failing until the end of the arc though, but that's par for the course for these arcs.

 

Absolutely! She'll fail until the very last bit of the arc, and then she will succeed in saving Emma. I had this theory I posted in the spec w/o spoilers thread:

 

My new theory is that DarkSwan is prodding her to be the Savior on purpose as part of her seekrit plan to destroy the Darkness. She needs Regina to be the lightest of the light because Emma is now the darkest of the dark. (This would be a callback to Merlin's lightness wand that can only be wielded by darkness.) Ultimately, Emma and Regina will hold the dagger and Excalibur and rejoin them, and their combined Dark/Light magic will clash and destroy the darkness for good. If we're lucky, other characters will be allowed to add their love to Regina's Savior magic. Or perhaps Hook & Henry will hug DarkSwan, weakening her darkness. But if the show is true to form, it will only be Regina's new Savior magic that destroys the darkness.

 

Some people seem to think Emma is faking being Dark, based on the preview where she's more herself with Henry until Regina shows up. I don't really buy that. However, I do think she has a plan to destroy the Darkness once & for all, and it requires Regina to be the Light Savior to her Dark One. BLERGH.

 

What is it??? Yoga??? Smoochies?? RUM?!? I NEED TO KNOW.

 

TLK is the obvious answer.

 

Yeah, another failed TLK is the first thing that has came to my mind after reading this. And I think it would explain some of the things that A&E have said, like that weird answer about the "whys" of the relationship. Poor Hook :-(

 

I think it's definitely going to be another failed TLK, and it's going to WRECK Hook. He'll be convinced he's not Emma's true love.

 

(And you're right.  This is probably going to end up in some pretty ugly shipping war.)

 

If they don't explain WHY a TLK doesn't work, it's going to be even uglier than usual. CSers will be upset and SQers will crow that CS isn't true love. I may disappear into an underground bunker for all of 5A.

 

On the spoiler I just linked: The show is going to say that Regina has never been to a ball before?? Regina, who was raised by regal stalker Cora? Regina, who was married to a KING? That is SO freaking ridiculous! Just something else to make her seem like poor pitiful Woegina. Snow's awful father never even let her go to a ball!

 

In the 19 Teases article I linked in Spoilers, A&E say that characters will get their memories back at different times. Based on the filming spoiler from 5x02 of Regina saying in SB that she's doing "What I should have done in Camelot," it looks like she'll get her memory back first, in the next ep. I suspect she will use the dreamcatcher. Either she remembers something bad she did that she doesn't want the others to know about, or she remembers a plan that she and Emma concocted there and which requires everyone else not to remember.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Souris

[Curio]

@LanaParrilla Check out this Sunday's ep of #OnceUponATime Regina goes to her 1st ball! An unexpected teacher shows her the moves!

 

First off, that's flat out incorrect information. Regina has gone to many balls in the Enchanted Forest, Lana. Am I supposed to feel sorry for Regina because she just happened to be crashing those balls as the Evil Queen instead of being invited? Oh, poor Regina, she never got to properly attend a ball because she was too busy interrupting them with her guards so she could kill Snow White or capture Emma Swan on her time travel adventure! And wouldn't she have attended many balls when she was married to Leopold? So why does she suddenly need someone to teach her some dance moves? It's not rocket science. Are you telling me that the oh-so-smart Regina in the premiere who randomly knew how portal magic worked—even though it's never been mentioned on the show before that summoning portals weakens the magic user—can't figure out a waltz on the fly?

 

Now, I'm not going to take that photo of Lana and Josh dancing as the full truth until I see the episode (Lana could have just posted that pic to throw people off, and maybe in the real episode it's actually Robin who teaches her how to dance, even though he's the one who should be freaking out about dance moves because he's the one who has never attended a ball in his life, not Regina. Hey! Charming should teach Robin how to dance! Now I can get on board with that!), but just for fun, let's go ahead and assume Charming teaches Regina how to dance. Are we going to totally look past the irony of Charming teaching dance moves to the person who interrupted the biggest ball of his life—aka his wedding day?

 

So that, on top of all the Regina needs to be the new savior! And look, Emma is mocking her that she can't do it! Poor Regina! It's going to be the freaking Mary Sue Hour x1000.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Curio

[KAOS Agent]

Regina was raised by her father, the prince. Cora wanted her to be a queen. There is no way in hell that Regina has never been to a ball. Cora would have shoved her at every royal ball from the time she was old enough to marry. She would most certainly have had a dance instructor from a young age so as not to embarrass her family. Regina's first ball is the lamest notion ever. I would say that maybe they meant the first ball we've ever seen Regina at, but that's not true either and we were told in dialogue she'd always be invited to balls because no one wanted to cause offense. 

 

Oh as a fun Regina saves the day with her super special platinum Saviour light magic combined with Emma's Dark One magic - How about a True Love's Kiss between Regina & Emma. Totally platonic of course.

 

ETA: "For us, we feel like David the character, now that his daughter has magic and Regina's there, he's like, 'I was the guy who used to slay dragons! What's going on?' We're going to see a reawakened hero." What the fuck does that even mean? These things have nothing to do with the other.

Edited September 30, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[MMR]

Loving all Regina spoilers! Can't wait for next ep and the ball!

[YaddaYadda]

Shouldn't David try and have a dance with his daughter instead? I don't even think CS will be staying that long at the ball, but still. I was hoping for a father/ daughter dance since that's never happened for them, because, you know Regina felt the need to cast the Dark Curse.

I think Regina's dance partner is Percival. That's who Lana was practicing with the actor playing him in some BTS.

incidentally, there was a blurb about this character and how key he is to all of this.

[PixiePaws1]

Looking at that photo of Emma in grey lying on ground I am getting the vibe that this is for the special effect of her actually changing into Dark Swan. Just the look on her face is so hard and angry.

As per my earlier speculation I think this is after she tries to pull the sword from the stone as a united whole (because she is forced or tricked.....oh...maybe they trick her into it to destroy her!!!) but she isn't meant to wield a remade Excalibur (my guess is it's Percival) and she gets knocked on her arse as opposed to blowing up a la Kay and she is not a happy camper and goes full dark.

[Souris]

Looking at that photo of Emma in grey lying on ground I am getting the vibe that this is for the special effect of her actually changing into Dark Swan. Just the look on her face is so hard and angry.

As per my earlier speculation I think this is after she tries to pull the sword from the stone as a united whole (because she is forced or tricked.....oh...maybe they trick her into it to destroy her!!!) but she isn't meant to wield a remade Excalibur (my guess is it's Percival) and she gets knocked on her arse as opposed to blowing up a la Kay and she is not a happy camper and goes full dark.

What spoiler site are you talking about?

[PixiePaws1]

Sorry I can't link it on my phone. It is @OUATSpoilers

[retrograde]

This one? I think that's a photo of the monitors when they were filming the 5.01 scene where Emma can't sleep. 

[PixiePaws1]

That's it...you might be right....I hadn't seen that scene and it looks like a new tweet...sorry. ..got over excited.

But I am over here in my corner standing by my theory that's how she goes full on dark.

[Serena]

I think you are all reading too much in Lana's "first ball" tweet. It's the first "real" ball scene she's filmed, where she wears a ball gown; hthe first time she had dancing practice so she her first "dance" scene, etc. 

 

From the 19 teases article "Some choices that seem like the absolute correct thing to do are going to turn out to be the maybe the worst thing to do." . That is definitely what causes "Dark Swan" - they make a choice that seems correct, and screw her up.

[YaddaYadda]

Change of gear for a second here.

 

 

 

If you were a little hazy about the details of the cliffhanger finale in Season 5's first episode, Kitsis and Horowitz confirmed that Emma has her memories in the flash forward to the present day. They explained that it won't take all winter before the past storyline catches up to the return to Storybrooke, and also said the other characters will regain their memories at different times.

So not everyone gets their memories at the same time. Got me thinking that maybe that's what Regina is doing with the dreamcatcher? Trying to retrieve her own memories?

 

 

 

"Mary Margaret and David have a past with someone from Camelot who we saw in the opening who we realize wasn't there, who is Lancelot," Kitsis said. "We also know that David is going to become pretty close with Arthur. Mary Margaret, if we remember back to Season 2, was able to have a child because of Lancelot, and so we are going to see those two as desperate parents wanting to save their daughter and not knowing who to trust. There's going to be a bit of palace intrigue.

 

This better not be going where I think it's going. If we have a rendition of 4x08, where Snow is all, it's okay you cheated because you love her, then all I have to say to that is "fuck you, Snow" and "WTF are you doing writers?"

 

I get that Lancelot is her friend and he did something amazing for her, but do not put your nose in that gross triangle of doom, thank you!

Edited September 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

It sounds like one sides with Arthur (who might be Shady.) And one sides with Lancelot who is one of the reasons why Emma was born.

[YaddaYadda]

It sounds like one sides with Arthur (who might be Shady.) And one sides with Lancelot who is one of the reasons why Emma was born.

 

Does David even know about that little nugget or did Snow keep it from him? Because that shit has a lot of ramifications. 

 

That whole thing was basically trading a life for a life. It's straight up Ruth's life for Emma's. One doesn't exist if the other one exists, period. If Ruth lives, Emma doesn't exist and if Emma exists then Ruth can't live.

 

I don't get why everyone thinks Arthur is shady. Does he have his own agenda? Most certainly.

 

If I had to bank on anyone being shady, then it's Merlin. He is sitting in front of his chess game and all these people are pawns. 

 

Merlin knows the future and the repercussions some decisions have and I think he has worked hard to try and change some of that future.

 

He's the one who put Arthur on his throne by writing a prophecy.

He made a deal with Ingrid to get his hat back. By doing that, he not only stopped Rumple from getting the hat, figuring out what the final ingredient was, but he effectively saved Hook's life (Hook was already back in the EF by then).

He let Lily go because...reasons. He could've brought her back to her mother. He chose not to. Why? So that Maleficent can stay angry forever? Not to mention that him seeing the future means he would've seen what Isaac was going to do. 

He goes to little Emma and warns her about Excalibur which to me means he's trying to change something in the future.

He has Emma wielding the dagger in 5x07. That likely means that he convinces her to take the dagger back because he's trying to "help" her.

 

And of course he has been missing for ages and waiting for these people from Storybrooke to show up in Camelot so that he's reunited with Arthur and Co?

 

i am willing to take the bet right now that the quest to put Excalibur back together is a very small part of what Arthur is up to.  I think Arthur wanting to be reunited with Merlin is of a personal nature.

 

Merlin is not shady at all.

 

Merlin, you're hot and all (please keep the scruff), but I hope Emma goes Dart Vader on your ass. 

Edited September 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Serena]

Does David even know about that little nugget or did Snow keep it from him? Because that shit has a lot of ramifications. 

 

That whole thing was basically trading a life for a life. It's straight up Ruth's life for Emma's. One doesn't exist if the other one exists, period. If Ruth lives, Emma doesn't exist and if Emma exists then Ruth can't live.

David does not know. Only Snow and Lancelot know. 

[YaddaYadda]

David does not know. Only Snow and Lancelot know. 

 

I know that, but she could've told him where most of the awesome stuff seems to be happening #offscreenville

[Serena]

I know that, but she could've told him where most of the awesome stuff seems to be happening #offscreenville

Adam and Eddy said in one of their recent rounds of interviews that Snow and Lancelot have a secret that Charming doesn't know about. So this time, they're giving #offscreenville a rest.

 

It's gonna look so bad if Charming gets pissed about this. Yes, he'll be pissed because she *never told him*, but unless they're really explicit about it, it'll look really bad that he's complaining about a thing that allowed his daughter to be born, while his daughter is in mortal danger.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

Adam and Eddy said in one of their recent rounds of interviews that Snow and Lancelot have a secret that Charming doesn't know about. So this time, they're giving #offscreenville a rest.

 

It's gonna look so bad if Charming gets pissed about this. Yes, he'll be pissed because she *never told him*, but unless they're really explicit about it, it'll look really bad that he's complaining about a thing that allowed his daughter to be born, while his daughter is in mortal danger.

 

So thank God for the first because seriously...and if there's a good place for him to find out, it's Camelot.

 

The second thing though...if he gets angry (which I think he will), I'm sure it has nothing to do with Emma or Do Over who wouldn't exist either. David was really close to his mother and she made a huge sacrifice for his happiness, to give him his wish of fatherhood. Him not knowing this sucks hard.

[Souris]

Adam and Eddy said in one of their recent rounds of interviews that Snow and Lancelot have a secret that Charming doesn't know about. So this time, they're giving #offscreenville a rest.

 

It's gonna look so bad if Charming gets pissed about this. Yes, he'll be pissed because she *never told him*, but unless they're really explicit about it, it'll look really bad that he's complaining about a thing that allowed his daughter to be born, while his daughter is in mortal danger.

 

 

I can see Charming being mad at Lancelot. I can see him being a bit mad at Snow for not telling him. But Snow didn't know until after the fact, either. It was a plan between Lancelot and Ruth.

[YaddaYadda]

I can see Charming being mad at Lancelot. I can see him being a bit mad at Snow for not telling him. But Snow didn't know until after the fact, either. It was a plan between Lancelot and Ruth.

 

That is true, but he blamed himself for her death. He didn't know that she willingly sacrificed her life so that he could have his happy ending.

 

I now know where Emma gets that gene from.

[Serena]

I just remembered: weren't they casting a baby for episodes 8 or 9? We assumed it was the Outlaw Green baby, especially because A&E hinted it would be born during sweeps, before we knew the time skip was only 6 weeks (it should have been way longer - 6 months, maybe). So, unless they do another, longer time skip, who is that baby?

[mjgchick]

Merlin sounds like an irresponsible teenager who decided half way that YOLOing was more important until it was to late and now he's trying to fix things in the most lazy way possible by creating prophecies on Arthur and Emma.

[YaddaYadda]

I just remembered: weren't they casting a baby for episodes 8 or 9? We assumed it was the Outlaw Green baby, especially because A&E hinted it would be born during sweeps, before we knew the time skip was only 6 weeks (it should have been way longer - 6 months, maybe). So, unless they do another, longer time skip, who is that baby?

 

Did they say the baby would be born during sweeps? 

 

I think the baby that's supposed to be born is the other side of the coin. Since this seems to be a theme this season, that dark has its counterpart, light. I'm gonna go with the person that is supposed to help destroy the darkness/help Emma. And no, it's not Merlin and I hope it's not OG's baby.

[Serena]

Did they say the baby would be born during sweeps? 

They kind of implied it. Adam said "You will see the baby being born" and Eddy did his Eddy-speak thing and said "it certainly won't be during sweeps" which I took to mean yes, it will be during sweeps. Episodes 8-9 should count as sweeps (they'll air in November) so, that is a big coincidence.

[YaddaYadda]

They kind of implied it. Adam said "You will see the baby being born" and Eddy did his Eddy-speak thing and said "it certainly won't be during sweeps" which I took to mean yes, it will be during sweeps. Episodes 8-9 should count as sweeps (they'll air in November) so, that is a big coincidence.

 

Kill me.

[Curio]

I say the sooner the baby is born, the better. I was nervous that was going to take up the majority of 5B's plot. If it's born in November, then hopefully it can join Neal 2.0 in Offscreenville for the rest of the season.

[RadioGirl27]

But that means another time jump, one of at least six or seven months, in the middle of this arc and I really doubt it would happen. The baby is probably Merida.

[YaddaYadda]

The baby is probably Merida.

 

So, 3 possible centrics for Merida? That's too much even for this show.

Edited September 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

 

I say the sooner the baby is born, the better. I was nervous that was going to take up the majority of 5B's plot. If it's born in November, then hopefully it can join Neal 2.0 in Offscreenville for the rest of the season.

The baby raises a lot of questions. Will the baby be special? What's Zelena going to do after its born? Will it significantly contribute to 5B's plot? I kind of want it to be a miscarriage, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

 

 

The baby is probably Merida.

A&E already shot this down in one of their interviews. Still hoping for Hook at least.

Edited September 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

A&E already shot this down in one of their interviews.

 

I'm still not convinced that episode 5x09 is about King Fergus either.

[RadioGirl27]

So, 3 possible centrics for Merida? That's too much even for this show.

Merida's parents appear in episode 9 (there was a spoiler about this a while ago)

A&E already shot this down in one of their interviews.

I mean the baby they are casting, not Zelena's baby.

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe they make an appearance to take her away. I'm so not down with Merida this half season. I'm having a really hard time with her getting 5x06 and 5x09 and 5x09 should technically be an important episode.

 

5x03 - I think this will be David in the present & Lancelot in the past

5x04 - I think is Guinevere's centric (or as much as it will be)

5x05 - Henry 

5x06 - Belle/Merida

5x07 - Merlin

[Rumsy4]

I thought A&E mentioned in one of the summer interviews that Green Baby would be born in 4B? Besides, I can't see A&E doing another time-jump within this arc. So this baby has got to be someone else. King Arthur, perhaps? That would tie into the prophecy of him being king of Camelot. 

[Curio]

How much do we know about the Swan family who adopted Emma? Does it retcon anything if we're shown baby Emma get adopted by the Swans and that's how her last name has stuck with Emma her whole life? That's all she's ever known?

[Souris]

I just remembered: weren't they casting a baby for episodes 8 or 9? We assumed it was the Outlaw Green baby, especially because A&E hinted it would be born during sweeps, before we knew the time skip was only 6 weeks (it should have been way longer - 6 months, maybe). So, unless they do another, longer time skip, who is that baby?

 

How much do we know about the Swan family who adopted Emma? Does it retcon anything if we're shown baby Emma get adopted by the Swans and that's how her last name has stuck with Emma her whole life? That's all she's ever known?

 

I don't think the baby being cast is Zelena's baby. It's way too early. I have a feeling it's a baby in a flashback. Could be baby Emma, or I think it could be Merlin and Nimue's baby.

[Serena]

How much do we know about the Swan family who adopted Emma? Does it retcon anything if we're shown baby Emma get adopted by the Swans and that's how her last name has stuck with Emma her whole life? That's all she's ever known?

Good point. It could be Emma.

 

JMO just posted this picture. Dark Swan and Light Emma in the same scene?

[Curio]

JMO just posted this picture. Dark Swan and Light Emma in the same scene?

 

Oh, I am so on board with this. The one good thing we can say about this Dark Swan arc is that it's giving JMO so many awesome acting opportunities.

[mjgchick]

I wonder if that's when we see how or why she turned heel.

[Souris]

I assume a Light Swan/Dark Swan fight in her mind. Perhaps Light Swan is an angel on Dark Swan's shoulder. Or Dark Swan becomes Light Swan's devil on the shoulder instead of Rumple.

[Shanna Marie]

How much do we know about the Swan family who adopted Emma?

Did they ever actually say it was the Swan family who adopted her? I just always assumed she was given the name Emma Swan because she was found wrapped in a blanket with the name "Emma" and a swan on it, and that was better than just calling her "Baby Doe." And was she ever actually adopted, or was it a foster family planning to adopt her and changing their mind before it was final? Because once a child is officially adopted, I don't think you're allowed to change your mind and give the kid back. But at any rate, I can't see why they'd bother showing more of infant Emma, considering that we saw her being born and put into the wardrobe and then little Pinocchio abandoning her. Did they specify the age of the infant? They should be needing to age up Baby Snowflake after the six-week jump, so could they be casting for that, or was it something that indicated a newborn?

 

On the idea of the secret Emma is keeping from the other characters and from the audience, if she isn't faking still being the Dark One, I'm still thinking she's at least faking the degree of darkness and whether their "failure" was actually that bad. They may have just balked at something they needed to do, and the curse is a way of hitting rewind and creating a scenario in which they'll be willing to do it. While Emma still seems relatively normal in her White Swan mode, it may not feel quite so desperate that they're willing to do something that seems like it might hurt her, but if she seems really scary, they may get over their qualms to do what needs to be done.

[Stuffy]

Unless it has changed in recent years, Emma was never adopted by the Swan family.  It was a foster family situation, and they sent Emma back when they had their own child.  I don't know if they've ever said Swan was the family's name on the show.  Jennifer has said several times the Swan name came from that first family.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Stuffy

[Curio]

Only with TS;TW would the origins of the lead character's last name still be up for debate nearly 100 episodes in.

[Shanna Marie]

In the promo photos, there seem to be shots of the main crew wearing the same modern clothes they're wearing on the way to Camelot, but standing in front of a police car and another car, and they seem to be in character rather than it being behind the scenes (just based on expressions, David flashing a sheriff's badge, etc.). I'm trying to figure that out -- do they just magically change back into what they were wearing? Do the Camelot clothes disappear upon return to Storybrooke?

[HoodlumSheep]

^ they probably just changed into some regular clothes after they got back.

I'm happy that Whale's returning!

Maybe the baby is a flashback of when Arthur is born and we'll get Merlin stopping by to see him and make a prophesy? Similar to how Rumple made it so Emma was born the saviour?

I wonder if later in the arc, Emma gets dark enough where she turns on Rumple (the one in her head), murders him in her mind, and then the Dark Swan takes over as the devil on her shoulder?

Edited September 30, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

they probably just changed into some regular clothes after they got back.

But they're the exact same regular clothes they're wearing in the pictures where they're arriving in Camelot. That's why at first I thought the pictures of them by cars were behind-the-scenes.

 

Ooh, I think I just figured it out. Those pictures aren't of them arriving in Camelot and confronting Arthur. It's Arthur and company arriving in the Storybrooke woods. Never mind.

 

But Hook either had his jacket handy and didn't leave it in Camelot when he changed wardrobes, or else he has a closet full of identical ones.

[Rumsy4]

Emma in her EF rags in some of those group photos. So, I think they're in Camelot. The car was probably in the background and won't be visible from the filming angle.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm happy that Whale's returning!

Someone has to deliver Zelena's baby ;-)

About the clothes, in the pics from episode 2 at least Snow and Regina are wearing exactly the same clothes they were wearing in episode 1.

[daxx]

Or Emma magics him back into modern clothes cause Dark Swan likes him that way.

[HoodlumSheep]

That necklace Regina has...bleh. The color is nice, but it's so big and clunky. Looks like the plastic jewelry you get for playing dress-up...when you're seven.

Edited September 30, 2015 by HoodlumSheep