Approach The Bench: Law & Order General Discussion Thread

[WendyCR72]

Realized I skipped the week before the 10th, and the same holds for the Mothership on WE on Wednesday, 2/3: So it is on Wednesday for two weeks in a row and CI is moved to Thursdays, so maybe this is a permanent move...

 

House seems to have overtaken Saturdays.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I was looking to see if we had a season 15 thread, but we don't. Or, if we do, I couldn't find it.

 

Anyhoo...

 

I don't know how I didn't realize that my dvr had "Fixed" in its queue, otherwise I would have watched it back to back with "Indifference."  I really wish Robert Palm had written "Fixed" so that I wouldn't have been banging my head over the retcons that Eric Overmyer and Roz Weinman had put in.

 

First, Lowenstein and Carla abused Didi. Jacob didn't care about Ezra, but we know that Carla abused him.  AND, Jacob also sexually abused Didi, based on the testimony of how Carla was "preparing" her for Jacob.  I didn't care for how it was just physical abuse.  And even though it was great to see Cragen here, I didn't care for how Carla was rehabilitated and made to look like she was just another victim of Jacob's. Pfft.

 

And I really, really didn't like Joyce Draper, who killed Jacob.  I mean, just in the interrogation room, when Van Buren tells her that Jacob's DNA was found in the cracked grill of her car, she's all like "that's impossible. Are you suuuuure about that?" bending her head toward Van Buren, as if Anita is some idiot talking out of her ass.  Was she really that delusional? Or think if she kept repeating "I didn't do it! I didn't do it!" it would magically be true that she didn't do it?

 

Jury Nullification at its finest.  It would have been great, and a fine full circle, if she had been found guilty. Not that I give a shit about Jacob Lowenstein, because I don't. And he was scum. But there are rules.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I want to say that I will always love Dick Wolf for creating this show. Okay, only love him for that part only, because he's a huge asshole.

 

That said, he cut his teeth, I'm assuming on Miami Vice (where he became one its producers from Season 3 to the end) and Hill Street Blues, where he became one of the producers and writers in the last two seasons.  And it was obvious the changes made had his hands written all over it, and I hated him for sticking his fingers into shows that were not his. Does that make me a hypocrite? Possibly. But I don't care.  Then again, I'm wondering if Noth's appearances on Hill Street made him think of casting him as Michael Logan, so I can't totally hate him, you know?  Also, Walon Green, a writer for this show, also wrote for Hill Street when Wolf joined. A good number of actors who were seen on Hill Street made their way to Law & Order.

[BW Manilowe]

According to TitanTV.com's listings, WE is airing the Mothership starting at 10AM Eastern tomorrow (Wednesday), running nonstop until 1AM Thursday morning. Just an FYI.

[WendyCR72]

According to TitanTV.com's listings, WE is airing the Mothership starting at 10AM Eastern tomorrow (Wednesday), running nonstop until 1AM Thursday morning. Just an FYI.

 

I believe that is its new permanent time (since House took Saturdays). From 6 p.m. to 1 a.m. Tuesday/Wednesday and Wednesdays from 10 a.m. to 1 a.m. Thursday mornings. WE moved a bunch of things around.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Why does Sundance Hate me? They suddenly start with Season 2, Episode 2, not ONE! Where we see "Greevy" murdered and Mike's grief and rage play out. Noth did some really good stuff in this episode.

 

BAH!

[WendyCR72]

All the times I have watched the franchise and it JUST hit me that the guy having the affair with his shrink in "Promises To Keep" was also on SVU and was the dumb hubby in "Ill-Bred" on CI in S3 and Simon Harper in "Depths" on CI in S7.

 

And I saw him in an episode of Forever last year.

 

Knew the guy looked familiar! Love when I can place them.

[BW Manilowe]

I just discovered, in the last few minutes, TNT has a lengthy--like over 24 hours lengthy--Mothership marathon scheduled from 3AM Eastern tonight/tomorrow morning (late Sunday night going into early Monday morning) through 5AM Eastern Monday night/Tuesday morning (late Monday night going into Tuesday morning)--the calendar dates on it are January 15th & 16th. The eps are from different seasons.

[Moose135]

And Monday is a holiday, and we're expecting crappy weather all day - guess I know I'm doing!

[BW Manilowe]

PLEASE NOTE: The TNT Mothership marathon may not start as scheduled at 3AM Eastern.

1 of the programs on TNT's schedule tonight/tomorrow morning before the Mothership marathon is a replay of tonight's NBA All-Star Game from Toronto.

That replay was supposed to have already started as I write this, at 11PM Eastern. They're just now wrapping coverage of the live, first-run, game broadcast.

If they don't skip part of the game or the next program scheduled before the marathon, or join the next show in progress, they may end up joining the 3AM ep of the marathon in progress. Just fair warning.

Edited February 15, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[Cobalt Stargazer]

It's twenty til two, and the game is over. The SI swimsuit thing is on now, and it'll supposedly end at 2:30 a.m. So maybe they won't be too far off schedule.

[BW Manilowe]

It's twenty til two, and the game is over. The SI swimsuit thing is on now, and it'll supposedly end at 2:30 a.m. So maybe they won't be too far off schedule.

They were right on, in fact. But I just looked at the online TV listings I use (TitanTV.com) & now they're showing that there will now be a 2-hour break in the marathon, from 9-11PM Eastern tonight, for 2 airings of the new Major Crimes episode (which wasn't in the listings when I originally posted about the marathon last night; I'm sure because I read the listings multiple times before I posted, to be sure of the start/end times of the marathon). Once the 2 airings of Major Crimes end at 11PM Eastern, the marathon is scheduled to resume & run until 5AM late tonight/early Tuesday morning.

Edited February 15, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[spaceytraci1208]

I'm not a fan of the episodes that primarily focus on race/racism...they're just so heavy-handed.

[WendyCR72]

This is not for GHSR, who will forever be in denial about this movie, but WE is airing Exiled in the very early morning on Thursday, February 25th, from 1:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.

 

So if anyone wants to watch it, set your DVR!

[BW Manilowe]

Burden, from S8 (about the dead quadriplegic kid), is on WE right now. That kid actress who played the dead kid's sister really isn't that good of an actress; especially not in the scene with Rey & Lennie after her mom has thrown suspicion her way for her brother's death.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Burden, from S8 (about the dead quadriplegic kid), is on WE right now. That kid actress who played the dead kid's sister really isn't that good of an actress; especially not in the scene with Rey & Lennie after her mom has thrown suspicion her way for her brother's death.

 

Her name is Heather Matarazzo, who was in 1995's Welcome to the Dollhouse. See it if you haven't, because IMO she did an amazing job. A decade later, Matarazzo would appear on the Mothership again, in the episode Sweetie.

[BW Manilowe]

Mega was on We earlier tonight (with Michael McKean & Annette O'Toole--I'm a fan of hers & I still can't believe she married "Lenny" from Laverne & Shirley--as a rich married couple who were some kind of "self-actualization gurus" & ran what Abbie called a "cult" & they were mixed up in the "no survivors" crash of an airport shuttle helicopter containing 1 of their members).

I've seen the ep a number of times & something still confuses me: Did Annette's character end up serving any time for her connection to the chopper crash?

It got really confusing after Annette & Michael's characters were charged, then Michael seemed to be the only 1 sentenced (6 terms of life with no parole, per plea agreement), & Jack said to Abbie that Annette pleaded out, 6 life sentences. Then Jack & Abbie went somewhere to talk to Annette at the end, because they figured out she'd "gaslight"-ed Michael regarding the copter crash to get her hands on their vast fortune (or something), & it seemed like they were talking to her at her & Michael's characters' estate, instead of jail, & she was still free & living happily ever after. I don't get how she got off, if she got off.

Edited March 30, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[Cobalt Stargazer]

It got really confusing after Annette & Michael's characters were charged, then Michael seemed to be the only 1 sentenced (6 terms of life with no parole, per plea agreement), & Jack said to Abbie that Annette pleaded out, 6 life sentences. Then Jack & Abbie went somewhere to talk to Annette at the end, because they figured out she'd "gaslight"-ed Michael regarding the copter crash to get her hands on their vast fortune (or something), & it seemed like they were talking to her at her & Michael's characters' estate, instead of jail, & she was still free & living happily ever after. I don't get how she got off, if she got off.

 

I think she gaslighted him by maybe-possibly lying that she'd been having an affair, that she knew her husband was such a narcissist that he'd never let anyone get the best of him. Jack says something to that effect at the end of the episode: "Elias Grace got millions of dollars out of these people, and he turned out to be the biggest sucker of them all."

[BW Manilowe]

I think she gaslighted him by maybe-possibly lying that she'd been having an affair, that she knew her husband was such a narcissist that he'd never let anyone get the best of him. Jack says something to that effect at the end of the episode: "Elias Grace got millions of dollars out of these people, and he turned out to be the biggest sucker of them all."

I think you maybe got confused by my question, somehow, but I appreciate the answer anyway.

I know Annette's character gaslighted Michael's character by claiming to have had an affair with the guy from their cult, group, whatever, who died in the airport shuttle helicopter crash. Abbie proved that right before the end, by saying the guy's credit card expenditures showed he was in a totally different place than Annette's character was, & said he was, at 1 point. He had gotten snowed in at a totally different city on a day Annette said they were they were supposed to have been together & couldn't get to wherever Annette's character said she had been with him.

What I was asking was, did Annette's character end up going to jail, like Michael's character did (they both got charged with 6 counts of First Degree Murder, for the deaths of the people in the helicopter, but it appeared Michael's character was the only 1 who got sentenced for them--6 life terms without the possibility of parole)?

Jack said, at 1 point after that, Annette's character had pled out, 6 life terms--which I thought meant she was going to jail too; but then, at the end, Jack & Abbie were talking to Annette's character, about why she gaslighted Michael's character or something else about the case or her & Michael's characters, & it seemed like she was still free from jail & living happily ever after. And I didn't understand that, if that's what happened.

[roseslg]

Saw that episode last night.  She got off.   The other woman got six counts of manslaughter I think.  The wife of the dead guy. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Season 11's Hubris just ended on TNT, and I really love Abbie's 'How stupid are you?' face to the foreperson who was all too happy to see the guy acquitted until he dumped her. The bitchface is always awesome, IMO, but she really looked liked she wanted to ask this woman, "What kind of moron are you?" when she says, "Yeah. He did it." Love.

[Spartan Girl]

Too bad the father of the murdered girl didn't get a chance to confront that moron. I don't condone violence against women, but if anyone deserved a bitchslapping, it was that dimbo.

[7-Zark-7]

What I was asking was, did Annette's character end up going to jail, like Michael's character did (they both got charged with 6 counts of First Degree Murder, for the deaths of the people in the helicopter, but it appeared Michael's character was the only 1 who got sentenced for them--6 life terms without the possibility of parole)?

 

Annette wasn't charged. There was no way to prove she knew her husband would kill those people simply because she manufactured an affair.  She's free to run the organization.

[BW Manilowe]

Annette wasn't charged. There was no way to prove she knew her husband would kill those people simply because she manufactured an affair. She's free to run the organization.

She had to have been charged with something at some point. They were arraigned together &, when the Judge asked for pleas, she said, "With my husband, not guilty, Your Honor."

[7-Zark-7]

She had to have been charged with something at some point. They were arraigned together &, when the Judge asked for pleas, she said, "With my husband, not guilty, Your Honor."

 

Well, it has been awhile since I've seen this episode, but I remember it ended with Abbie asking if there was anything they could do about Annette and Jack telling her that lying about an affair was not enough since they couldn't prove she could known her husband would plant a bomb. 

[Spartan Girl]

"Smoke" is on ION right now. Man, it kills me how the molestation victim denies everything in the beginning, saying that his dad would kill anyone that tried to rape them....then fast forward to the end after its revealed that the parents SOLD their son to the actor pedophile in exchange for money for their younger son, and the POS dad justifies it all --without ONE SHRED OF REMORSE -- by just saying "You weren't about to die!"

No hell deep enough for either of those "parents".

Later "Bodies" is on, aka the one where that douchebag of a lawyer won't give up the location of the bodies his client murdered. Didn't feel sorry for him at all. It was obvious from the get go he was an opportunist (too bad Serena didn't come out when he was trying to flirt with her). The fact that he looked for the bodies should have gotten his ass disbarred right then and there. And then he was the nerve to clutch at his pearls in the name of attorney client privilege after the fact? I hope he got the shit kicked out of him in prison.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Later "Bodies" is on, aka the one where that douchebag of a lawyer won't give up the location of the bodies his client murdered. Didn't feel sorry for him at all. It was obvious from the get go he was an opportunist (too bad Serena didn't come out when he was trying to flirt with her). The fact that he looked for the bodies should have gotten his ass disbarred right then and there. And then he was the nerve to clutch at his pearls in the name of attorney client privilege after the fact? I hope he got the shit kicked out of him in prison.

 

What's so dumb about it is, I think the killer actually led the lawyer to the bodies for some crazy-ass reason, maybe because he thought he could get the death penalty taken off the table in exchange for the location. I could be mistaking that for another episode, though, since I don't watch as faithfully once Serena shows up.

 

Speaking of Serena, her episodes started today on WE, and I'm already low-grade irritated with her. There's nothing really wrong with her character, but she just seems way too nice to be a prosecutor. Like she's trying to be a hardcase and it just isn't working, I dunno.

[Spartan Girl]

What's so dumb about it is, I think the killer actually led the lawyer to the bodies for some crazy-ass reason, maybe because he thought he could get the death penalty taken off the table in exchange for the location. I could be mistaking that for another episode, though, since I don't watch as faithfully once Serena shows up.

 

Speaking of Serena, her episodes started today on WE, and I'm already low-grade irritated with her. There's nothing really wrong with her character, but she just seems way too nice to be a prosecutor. Like she's trying to be a hardcase and it just isn't working, I dunno.

It sounded like the lawyer went of his own free will because he was "curious" to see if it was true. CURIOUS. He was already a little to eager to represent such an infamous serial killer, and then he goes to ogle bodies of dead girls -- who have grieving families going out of their minds to find them, if only for closure.

Yes, a public defender can't choose who they're assigned to, but they CAN CHOOSE whether or not to tamper with evidence.

Like I said, I hope he got the shit kicked out of him in prison.

[andromeda331]

"Smoke" is on ION right now. Man, it kills me how the molestation victim denies everything in the beginning, saying that his dad would kill anyone that tried to rape them....then fast forward to the end after its revealed that the parents SOLD their son to the actor pedophile in exchange for money for their younger son, and the POS dad justifies it all --without ONE SHRED OF REMORSE -- by just saying "You weren't about to die!"

No hell deep enough for either of those "parents".

Isn't that the one where Serena defends the parents by saying they had hard choice between their sick baby

or selling their son to a child molester? 

[WendyCR72]

Isn't that the one where Serena defends the parents by saying they had hard choice between their sick baby

or selling their son to a child molester? 

 

Yep. It was at a time like that bull crap that I missed Abbie and her "don't give a shit about criminals" attitude.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Yep. It was at a time like that bull crap that I missed Abbie and her "don't give a shit about criminals" attitude.

 

I like to think that Abbie and Ben could have worked well together. Y'know, in some alternate universe where the cheese didn't slide off of Michael Moriarty's cracker. Like Ben, Abbie had little interest in and less patience for the endless supply of self-pitying whining most of the defendants would track into the courtroom like mud from their shoes, and the only reason she slowed her roll in Punk is because Alice inadvertently touched a nerve. And I think that's my issue with Serena, that she bends over backwards to see the other side, and since she was supposed to be a prosecutor, that doesn't work for me.

[Spartan Girl]

YES to all of this. There were times I wanted to slap Serena for her misplaced pity for certain murders and criminals. You are a PROSECUTOR. Act like one!

Especially in the case of "Smoke." Why she felt sorry for those assholes, even after Jack exposed how they orchestrated the sexual abuse of their own son is beyond me. Who gives a shit if they used some of the money for their sick younger son?! That was no excuse!

Man, if only Abbie had been in that episode instead of Serena...

Edited April 7, 2016 by Spartan Girl

[ktwo]

What's so dumb about it is, I think the killer actually led the lawyer to the bodies for some crazy-ass reason, maybe because he thought he could get the death penalty taken off the table in exchange for the location. I could be mistaking that for another episode, though, since I don't watch as faithfully once Serena shows up.

You may be thinking of one with Abbie where they have a serial killer who offers up older bodies in exchange for not being extradited to Texas. I think the ep title is Agony?

[andromeda331]

Thanks I thought that was the one. I couldn't figure out why she had any sympathy for them either.

[Spartan Girl]

I can't figure out why she wound up feeling sorry for the doucheface lawyer in "Bodies" either. Just because he was a "true believer"? Puh-lease.

Now if our girl Abbie had been there instead, she wouldn't have any of that. She would have shut him down with one of her famous burns: "You didn't seem to have any ethical scruples about looking for the bodies of fifteen innocent girls." BOOM.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Thanks for the opening, Spartan Girl!

 

School Daze: "Somebody better remind her of her ethical obligations as a prosecutor."

 

"You mean the one that says I should put someone on trial who I think is guilty?"

 

BOOM, indeed. And stop using your powers for evil, Jamie.

[Spartan Girl]

That was awesome.  Here's another one:

 

Shooter's mother: You think you can just look at your son and know he could do something like this?

Abbie: Depends on how hard you're looking.

 

Abbie later turned out to be completely justified when it was revealed later that the parents not only knew he was the shooter, but also covered up the fact that he had previously broken his little sister's arm.  So contrary to what the mother claimed earlier, they knew he was capable of violence.  BOOM.

[GHScorpiosRule]

That was awesome.  Here's another one:

 

Shooter's mother: You think you can just look at your son and know he could do something like this?

Abbie: Depends on how hard you're looking.

 

Abbie later turned out to be completely justified when it was revealed later that the parents not only knew he was the shooter, but also covered up the fact that he had previously broken his little sister's arm.  So contrary to what the mother claimed earlier, they knew he was capable of violence.  BOOM.

 

 

Aaaand, contrary to all television and movie parents, his Father testified against him. I loved appreciated that.

[Spartan Girl]

Aaaand, contrary to all television and movie parents, his Father testified against him. I loved appreciated that.

Too bad they didn't seem to get him help long before the school shooting, for all their squalling earlier in the episode about how he needed help.

[shapeshifter]

If, like me, you frequently have to answer the phone during the last five minutes of an episode, this website will at least tell you how it ended: allthingslawandorder.blogspot.com

[Maherjunkie]

Did anyone see Second Opinion?  As unlikeable as she was, I didn't think the doctor was legally culpable as she didn't say she had a cure, at least according to that librarian.  I also loved how Lennie teased Mike about his love of breasts and one-nighters.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I disagree. She was legally culpable.  She promised them a longer life with her "potion" which she charged over $75K for. It's dificult for me to watch this now, because within the past year, I got breast cancer and it angers me to see how getting a mastectomy is described as being "butchered" or that these women would rather die than get one or even undergo chemotherapy. Which, I can understand for the latter, because back then, the side effects were much worse and debilitating.   And I think she did say her shit could cure them, and her shit wasn't chemicals, so her shit was better. Oh yeah, but they had to PAY ALL THEIR LIFE SAVINGS if they wanted to live using her shit.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I think she did say her shit could cure them, and her shit wasn't chemicals, so her shit was better. Oh yeah, but they had to PAY ALL THEIR LIFE SAVINGS if they wanted to live using her shit.

I do think Haas was culpable, but wasn't there some confusion about if she told anyone she had a cure? Because the husband of the woman whose death they were investigating never met her, and at the end of the episode Jack said something to the effect of that guilt would keep the surviving relatives from suing her once she was out of prison.

What's worth noting is that both Van Buren and Claire were talking about how much the fear of breast cancer affects women. Anita told Mike and Lennie that she clipped articles on the subject out of magazines and kept them in a drawer next to her bed, and Claire took to heart the claims (and complaints) of Haas' patients about treatments for the disease being held up by the FDA. As annoying as I frequently find Jack, Claire's stridency was a lot more aggravating than Anita's more thoughtful comments, and I was glad he zinged her a little with, "Right. All men are pigs, and we should all rot in hell."

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I could have sworn there was a scheduling thread, but that might have been in one of the other L & O forums.

WE's scheduling person needs to put the hash pipe down, because their lineup is bananas. They're supposed to start airing the season nine eps tonight (yay, Abbie!) but then on Saturday at 5:00 PM they swing back to season one with Everybody's Favorite Bagman. Meanwhile, they're airing House instead of L & O now, when they usually start Wednesday off with the Mothership. The hell?

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I could have sworn there was a scheduling thread, but that might have been in one of the other L & O forums.

WE's scheduling person needs to put the hash pipe down, because their lineup is bananas. They're supposed to start airing the season nine eps tonight (yay, Abbie!) but then on Saturday at 5:00 PM they swing back to season one with Everybody's Favorite Bagman. Meanwhile, they're airing House instead of L & O now, when they usually start Wednesday off with the Mothership. The hell?

WE ping pongs their schedule at random. I watch both the Mothership and CI, and WE NEVER advertises moving them, ever. But their reality shit gets promoted to hell and back.

As for going back to S1, it sounds like the channel only has the rights to certain seasons.

[roseha]

I'm watching the Season 19 Episodes on ION lately.  I try to record some for other nights since they seem to be playing a bunch on Wednesdays.  Really enjoying Mike Cutter, and Lupo being a law student was a nice touch. 

[Maherjunkie]

Love it as is.  Like being surprised with some Logan.  If they only showed 1-5 that would be fine with me.  Does Lupo go for the defense?

[spaceytraci1208]

As much as I enjoy the detectives, I think the "Order" portion is always my favorite. At some point during the trial I always find myself saying "Git 'em, (insert your favorite A.D.A. here)!" 

Edited June 25, 2016 by spaceytraci1208

[CoderLady]

I totally agree. I know it's usually 50% of the show's time for each portion, but Law seems to move a lot faster than Order, and when it finally gets down to arguing and dealing there seems to be more to savor. Often I've totally forgotten all the interrogating, chasing, shooting and arresting and only remember when the detectives have to step in after the trial starts and either testify or do a bit more investigating. But it's all good.

[roseslg]

I couldn't see one without the other.  I don't know if I have a favourite bit.  I think they work well together. I actually like when the team is working together at the end.  The Law part is definitely a lot lighter and less serious in its tone, which I appreciate. The lawyers tend to wisecrack less than the detectives.