Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah but newer episodes (7x10) isn't on there even though it should be due to the season pass. Weird that they'd keep it on iTunes but not Amazon. 

[KenyaJ]

25 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Looks like I'll have to send an email to Amazon. Even though I only paid 3.99 for the season pass, I want what I was "promised" lol

Same! I've been wondering if they thought 710 was so boring that they'll get around to uploading it when they feel like it. Alternatively, I wondered if they were getting back at those of us who took advantage of their $3.99 blunder by only letting us have Episodes 1-9. LOL. There are literally only 7 minutes of 710 that I want to watch, but those 7 minutes are enough to make me impatient with Amazon's delay.

[Starfish35]

Yes, everything that wasn’t already in your video library got pulled off.  And the season passes must not have been available for very long, because when I went looking for a season pass for Legends, they’d already stopped offering season passes for the WB shows.  I wonder if this is why?  And why the season passes that were available were discounted?

[KenyaJ]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

And why the season passes that were available were discounted?

I don't think they were meant to be discounted. The $3.99 season passes were clearly an error, because a few hours later, they were priced back at $39.99. I didn't realize that they've since removed the season passes altogether.

[apinknightmare]

This is all I could find on it: 

https://www.cbr.com/amazon-suspends-sale-wb-properties-including-arrowverse/

Excellent customer service Amazon has there informing the people who bought season passes of this issue, LOL.

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

I don't think they were meant to be discounted. The $3.99 season passes were clearly an error, because a few hours later, they were priced back at $39.99. I didn't realize that they've since removed the season passes altogether.

Ah ok.  Yeah, Legends started, what, two weeks after Arrow I think?  By then, they’d pulled all the season passes for the WB shows, although you could, at that point, still purchase individual episodes.  It’s annoying.  😕 

[Mary0360]

53 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

This is all I could find on it: 

https://www.cbr.com/amazon-suspends-sale-wb-properties-including-arrowverse/

Excellent customer service Amazon has there informing the people who bought season passes of this issue, LOL.

So if I'm understanding it Amazon have suspended or kicked WB out because WB had issues on how they were pricing? 

I guess Amazon is a powerful enough company that if one content provider gets pissy they can just cut them off without affecting their bottom line. 

 

As for Arrow, I feel like part of the reason the CW keeps their shows going so long even though they are only getting a little over a million viewers, some of the less then a million,  is less to do with quality or how happy or unhappy the audience is with the show, but more to do with the fact that the longer shows are on the more potential they have to make any money. From the few articles Ive read it seems like CW business is almost solely reliant  on their very expensive Netflix deal. So as long as they keep providing Netflix with content and Netflix keep providing them with money, I feel like their opinions on the quality of their programming is secondary. 

[olicityfan25]

11 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Doesn't matter if you tune out and, hell the general audience might like all aspects of the show, including NTA. The ratings are solid, Arrow will finish the season in 3rd or 4th place for the Network, not that the CW or WB really cares about Live+SD or Live+7.  Unless the show stops selling overseas, or on Amazon/iTunes or DVDs it's a success and will probably go for 10 years provided SA is on board.

My ratings don't count as I'm in Canada. I don't think Canadian watchers contribute to those ratings.

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Same! I've been wondering if they thought 710 was so boring that they'll get around to uploading it when they feel like it. Alternatively, I wondered if they were getting back at those of us who took advantage of their $3.99 blunder by only letting us have Episodes 1-9. LOL. There are literally only 7 minutes of 710 that I want to watch, but those 7 minutes are enough to make me impatient with Amazon's delay.

If you want, in the episode thread there's a link to a twitter account that has a thread with all the clips you ou are looking for. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by BkWurm1

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

If you want, in the episode thread there's a link to a twitter account that has a thread with all the clips you ou are looking for. 

Thanks! I've been watching those Twitter clips since Monday, LOL. And I still have the episode on my DVR. I'm just spoiled and I want to be able to watch the show in high quality on my laptop. 

 

8 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

This is all I could find on it: 

https://www.cbr.com/amazon-suspends-sale-wb-properties-including-arrowverse/

Excellent customer service Amazon has there informing the people who bought season passes of this issue, LOL.

Thanks for the info! Amazon sucks for not informing people about this. They and the WB need to get their shit together! I didn't pay 4 whole dollars to only get 9 episodes.  🤣

[apinknightmare]

24 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

I didn't pay 4 whole dollars to only get 9 episodes.  🤣

Same. I want my $4 worth, and I do NOT feel that I've gotten it yet!

[Starfish35]

Final ratings:

Also, for reference, here are last week’s unrounded finals (source):

Quote

Here were the un-rounded FINALS for the CW series last week (Jan. 14-20):

The Flash .............................. 0.584
Riverdale ............................... 0.489
Supernatural .......................... 0.392
Roswell, New Mexico (P) ...... 0.376
Supergirl ................................ 0.271
Charmed ............................... 0.248
All American .......................... 0.211
Dynasty ................................. 0.187
Crazy Ex-Girlfriend ............... 0.155

Edited January 24, 2019 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

For every program, the lowest ratings are in the 18 - 34 category. I guess TV really has become an older person's medium.

[quarks]

On 1/23/2019 at 1:21 PM, Mary0360 said:

So if I'm understanding it Amazon have suspended or kicked WB out because WB had issues on how they were pricing? 

[/prohat.]

To vastly, vastly oversimplify the situation: Amazon is demanding that they be treated as a box retailer like Walmart. In that situation, WB sets a base price per unit for the distributor, who then sets a base price per unit for Walmart, who pays and then determines how much to charge customers. With DVDs/Blu-rays this has historically often been somewhat less than what the retailer actually paid the distributor for the unit, largely because DVDs/Blu-rays were a good way to get foot traffic in to look at nice profitable TVs and things. 

Amazon does this with DVDs/Blu-Rays without a problem, usually matching or undercutting the Walmart price so that you will look at/for other Amazon things. Since they've been matching the loss leader prices, it's possible that Amazon has actually been losing money on some of those unit sales, but WB is still getting paid so they are happy.

Streaming is more complex. Amazon wants to set retail prices here as well, BUT, with streaming, Amazon usually doesn't pay a set price per unit; instead, they pay a percentage (basically, a royalty) per unit. So lower prices for Amazon streaming mean less revenue for WB, so, WB wants control of the sales prices. Amazon is fighting back by pulling buy buttons - not for the first time. It's also not limited to WB/Time-Warner.

Add in that Amazon isn't just a retailer/distributor, but also its own content provider and thus a rival to WB/Time-Warner and other studios (and Netflix!), and you have what I think the legal profession calls a mess.  The U.S. Justice Department has already weighed in a few times on related ebook issues, as have various European Union courts. I suspect legal battles will be continuing. 

[Starfish35]

Last night’s ratings:

[Starfish35]

Finals.

Also, the poster (RJK) at SpottedRatings who was posting the unrounded numbers is taking a break for a while, and I don’t know of any other source for those.  I’ll still post the Live+7 numbers as they become available though.

[Starfish35]

For reference, here’s the Live+7 ratings for the week of January 14-20 (Programming Insider):

• The Flash - 1.21, 3.291 million.
• Riverdale - 0.92, 2.320 million.
• Supernatural - 0.74, 2.335 million.
• Supergirl - 0.68, 2.228 million.
• Roswell, New Mexico (P) - 0.63, 2.430 million.
• Charmed - 0.53, 1.580 million.
• All American - 0.33, 1.030 million.
• Dynasty - 0.27*, 0.845 million.
• Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - 0.25, 0.586 million.

* Not on Top 40 report.

Arrow, Black Lightning, and Legacies had their midseason premieres the following week.  A rerun of the Roswell, New Mexico premiere aired after Supernatural.

[Morrigan2575]

I wonder where the NOT 18-49 year olds went?  Same Demo but, much lower viewers, something on last night?

[Starfish35]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I wonder where the NOT 18-49 year olds went?  Same Demo but, much lower viewers, something on last night?

The half-hours were apparently 0.4 and 0.3; will be interesting to see whether it adjusts down. (link)  ETA:  That’s what the preliminary half-hours were last week too though, now that I’m checking, and it didn’t adjust down, so never mind.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Starfish35

[lemotomato]

Last week’s final unrounded demo was a 0.36, with 100k more viewers than this week. I think this week will adjust down in the final.

[Mary0360]

I mean we are all involved in fandom and some of us are struggling to to keep watching this show so is it really that surprising that general viewership numbers seem to keep going down every week? 

[Morrigan2575]

Arrow held

[lemotomato]

Hanging onto that 0.4 by the fingernails. Looks like Arrow found the formula to keep the 18-49 men sticking around.

[Mary0360]

It honestly looks like Arrow will eventually drop below 1 million viewers if not by the end of this season then by next. 

[Morrigan2575]

14 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Hanging onto that 0.4 by the fingernails. Looks like Arrow found the formula to keep the 18-49 men sticking around.

There was no change between the Male/Female 18-49 Demo from last week to this week.  So, whoever skipped watching Monday night to drop the viewers were outside the 18-49 demo entirely.  I also doubt it matters since (as Quarks has said repeatedly) CW doesn't care about ratings and taking a break during Feb Sweeps kind of backs that up

Edited February 6, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I also doubt it matters since (as Quarks has said repeatedly) CW doesn't care about ratings and taking a break during Feb Sweeps kind of backs that up

I still wonder why they're doing the break now instead of around x15 like usual, and I guess there's still the second break since then it's supposed to change times for LoT coming back? Also, I'm guessing that production knew this break was coming now, so I guess that there's a cliffhanger coming for 713?

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, way2interested said:

I still wonder why they're doing the break now instead of around x15 like usual, and I guess there's still the second break since then it's supposed to change times for LoT coming back? Also, I'm guessing that production knew this break was coming now, so I guess that there's a cliffhanger coming for 713?

There is one less episode for Arrow, Flash and SG this year, plus 3 less episodes for SPN, that might be a factor?  Not really sure, it does seem odd since i can't think of anything.

[way2interested]

4 hours ago, Mary0360 said:

It honestly looks like Arrow will eventually drop below 1 million viewers if not by the end of this season then by next. 

Ha, I wanted to check to make sure, but it already dropped below a million viewers technically a few times last year and they still got 2 seasons after that, so I don't think anyone really cares.

39 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

There is one less episode for Arrow, Flash and SG this year, plus 3 less episodes for SPN, that might be a factor?  Not really sure, it does seem odd since i can't think of anything.

Such weird potential logic "Arrow, you have one less episode, so we'll push up the normal break two weeks early and just skip Feb sweeps." I guess it probably has something to do with rescheduling the other shows as well, but I'll admit I don't want to do the work and figure out CW's programming schedule XD

[Morrigan2575]

30 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Ha, I wanted to check to make sure, but it already dropped below a million viewers technically a few times last year and they still got 2 seasons after that, so I don't think anyone really cares.

Such weird potential logic "Arrow, you have one less episode, so we'll push up the normal break two weeks early and just skip Feb sweeps." I guess it probably has something to do with rescheduling the other shows as well, but I'll admit I don't want to do the work and figure out CW's programming schedule XD

It's not just Arrow, apparently all or most (probably not the Mid-Season Shows) are on break

[Primal Slayer]

It'll probably happen when they move to 9pm. But streaming is still strong and most shows on the network are dropping so they'll fit right in.

[Starfish35]

CW Live+7 Ratings for the week of January 21-27 (Programming Insider)

• The Flash - 1.28, 3.414 million.
• Riverdale - 0.80, 2.073 million.
• Supernatural - 0.74, 2.358 million.
• Supergirl - 0.69, 2.359 million.
• Arrow - 0.69, 2.077 million. (#710 - My Name Is Emiko Queen)
• Roswell NM - 0.63, 2.119 million.
• Legacies - 0.57, 1.749 million.
• Charmed - 0.55, 1.639 million.
• Black Lightning - 0.49, 1.440 million.
• All American - 0.38, 1.118 million.
• Crazy Ex-Girlfriend- 0.20, 0.535 million.
• Dynasty - 0.19, 0.801 million*.

*Not in Top 40 report.

For comparison purposes, Live+SD ratings for the week of January 21-27 (Spotted Ratings):

• The Flash - 0.67, 1.883 million.
• Supernatural - 0.41, 1.436 million. 
• Riverdale - 0.38, 1.120 million.
• Arrow - 0.36, 1.219 million.
• Roswell NM - 0.36, 1.210 million.
• Supergirl - 0.33, 1.337 million.
• Legacies - 0.31, 1.008 million.
• Black Lightning - 0.29, 0.861 million.
• Charmed - 0.27, 0.884 million.
• All American - 0.23, 0.706 million.
• Dynasty - 0.13, 0.583 million.
• Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - 0.12, 0.371 million.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Starfish35
Added Live+SD for comparison

[Mary0360]

3 hours ago, way2interested said:

Ha, I wanted to check to make sure, but it already dropped below a million viewers technically a few times last year and they still got 2 seasons after that, so I don't think anyone really cares.

Such weird potential logic "Arrow, you have one less episode, so we'll push up the normal break two weeks early and just skip Feb sweeps." I guess it probably has something to do with rescheduling the other shows as well, but I'll admit I don't want to do the work and figure out CW's programming schedule XD

I never said any one cares. I was merely making an observation that I think by the end of this season or next their new normal will be ratings that plateau or sit at below 1 million 🤷‍♀️

[way2interested]

21 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

I never said any one cares. I was merely making an observation that I think by the end of this season or next their new normal will be ratings that plateau or sit at below 1 million 🤷‍♀️

I was just saying that Arrow went below a million already since you were phrasing it as "Arrow will eventually drop below a million" not "their new normal will be below a million," and I thought it was a concern.

[Mary0360]

18 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I was just saying that Arrow went below a million already since you were phrasing it as "Arrow will eventually drop below a million" not "their new normal will be below a million," and I thought it was a concern.

Thanks for the fact check, but even if Arrow has already dropped under a million before it seems to me like the eventually the show is going to fall below a million viewers as a regular occurrence, that's all I was trying to say.

Im well aware that the CW don't give a shit about ratings. If they did 90 percent of the shows they have on air would have been cancelled already based on their ratings.

[way2interested]

17 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Thanks for the fact check, but even if Arrow has already dropped under a million before it seems to me like the eventually the show is going to fall below a million viewers as a regular occurrence, that's all I was trying to say.

K, sorry for the misunderstanding

[tv echo]

'Arrow,' 'The Flash,' 'Supergirl,' and 'Black Lightning' To Air Reruns The Last Week of February
By RUSS BURLINGAME - February 7, 2019
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/02/08/arrow-the-flash-supergirl-and-black-lightning-to-air-reruns-the-/

Quote

None of The CW's superhero shows will air new episodes the week of February 24, as Supergirl, Arrow, Black Lightning, and The Flash will all air reruns.

Almost every show on The CW will have a hiatus week, with only Roswell New Mexico, Riverdale, All-American and Legacies airing new episodes.

On Monday, February 25, Arrow will air "Unmasked," and Black Lightning aired “The Book of Rebellion: Chapter Three: Angelitos Negros.”

Edited February 9, 2019 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

I think it's all the shows, except the new ones that have short episode counts (and need to clear out for the late season shows).

SPN is on break until March 7th, I expect all the shows to come back that week

Edited February 9, 2019 by Morrigan2575
How does all get corrected to apo? WTF is an apo?

[BkWurm1]

The Reruns aired can sometimes say something about the new episodes to come.  I’m trying to remember if there were FF’s in Unmasked 

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

The Reruns aired can sometimes say something about the new episodes to come.  I’m trying to remember if there were FF’s in Unmasked 

There were. It was KM's first episode

[tv echo]

So I'm guessing...

7.13    11 Feb 2019
(hiatus)
7.14    04 Mar 2019?        
7.15    11 Mar 2019?                
7.16    18 Mar 2019?        
7.17    25 Mar 2019?    
(hiatus)
7.18    15 Apr 2019? (Arrow moves to 9pm ET)                
7.19    22 Apr 2019?                
7.20    29 Apr 2019?                    
7.21    06 May 2019?                
7.22    13 May 2019?

Edited February 11, 2019 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

News from Kevin Reilly's session at the TCA Tour. He confirmed that there will be a new streaming service for HBO/Turner/Warner Bros content starting in 2020. Might be something to consider as speculation ramps up about whether S8 might be Arrow's last.

[Morrigan2575]

Seems like a really short deal this time around, it was just signed in 2016

[quarks]

AT&T basically said upfront that creating/owning streaming services for Time Warner content was their main reason for the merger, so this isn't particularly surprising. 

I've seen some speculation from insider sources that the Arrowverse content may end up being available on a couple of different Time Warner/AT&T platforms - the ongoing CW app, a revamped DC Universe app, and the main WB app, though I don't think anyone's hammered out how exactly that's going to work.

[Proteus]

This is ridiculous. I wonder how this will hurt the CW shows since they bank a lot on the Netflix deal.

[KenyaJ]

As it relates to Arrow (if it goes past next year) I would hope it meant a smaller budget, requiring the show to trim its bloated cast. Everyone who's not a Queen or a Diggle has to GTFO or be dropped to recurring.

[Starfish35]

37 minutes ago, quarks said:

I've seen some speculation from insider sources that the Arrowverse content may end up being available on a couple of different Time Warner/AT&T platforms - the ongoing CW app, a revamped DC Universe app, and the main WB app, though I don't think anyone's hammered out how exactly that's going to work.

I’ve been wondering myself how it was going to work with WB and DC Universe.  I signed up for DC UnIverse to watch the new season of Young Justice, but there’s really not enough on there to justify the monthly cost IMO, if you’re not a comics reader.  But if they did some sort of joint membership thing, where you didn’t have to pay for each individually, that might be worth a look, if they didn’t make the fee too high.  

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

This is ridiculous. I wonder how this will hurt the CW shows since they bank a lot on the Netflix deal.

I think it may vary depending upon the show. Supernatural has a number of other revenue streams and it has a notoriously loyal fanbase known for financially investing in the show - buying season passes/DVDs/Blu-Rays and so on. At the rate that they keep killing off the cast, The 100 is presumably going to end in season 8/9, so, probably not a huge issue for them, either.  Dynasty apparently makes its revenues through international licensing (CBS says the second season was profitable even before the U.S. airing, well before it landed on U.S. Netflix) although it's possible that some of those revenues come from international Netflix licensing, which may complicate matters. 

With something like Riverdale, which seemed to get most of its viewers after people found it on Netflix, it might be a different story?

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

I’ve been wondering myself how it was going to work with WB and DC Universe.  I signed up for DC UnIverse to watch the new season of Young Justice, but there’s really not enough on there to justify the monthly cost IMO, if you’re not a comics reader.  But if they did some sort of joint membership thing, where you didn’t have to pay for each individually, that might be worth a look, if they didn’t make the fee too high.  

And on the other side, I suspect many viewers signing on to a WB app so they can watch unlimited streaming of Let's Hate Watch Ross and the Other Friends* won't have as much if any interest in comics, but could be interested in, say, a subscription to EW.

*Apologies to Ross fans, but Ross is the worst.

[Starfish35]

Last night’s ratings

[Morrigan2575]

It's so weird because the HH numbers bounced back from last week.  You'd think the viewer and demo numbers would be higher.  Guess we'll see once finals are released.

[quarks]

The numbers for The Bachelor and America's Got Talent also look a bit sketchy. ABC's increasing frustration seems increasingly understandable.

18 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

As it relates to Arrow (if it goes past next year) I would hope it meant a smaller budget, requiring the show to trim its bloated cast. Everyone who's not a Queen or a Diggle has to GTFO or be dropped to recurring.

I completely get wanting to reduce the size of the cast, but I don't think a reduced budget will help with that.

Regular cast members are usually paid a lower per episode fee than recurring/guest stars. Sea Shimooka and Juliana Harvaky are probably paid scale or close to that, for instance, while Kat McMamara is probably paid scale + 10% or slightly higher. Amell has even talked about getting paid less than other cast members for more than one season, despite being the lead.

In your scenario, Arrow would only save money if it only hired day players, and that could very easily lead to reduced revenues down the line, since day players don't get listed in search algorithms, and thus can't help a show get recommended by the Netflix/Google/Amazon/etc "Customers who watched this...." even if the day player later makes it big.

This is kinda illustrated with season three - right after Arrow lost two regular cast members, gained one, and also gained a comparatively well paid guest star. The production values visibly plummeted - not just with the sets (although that was a huge problem) or the SFX (also), but with the day players/extras. To be fair, however, the production values actually got worse in season four, after he left - not coincidentally, the same season when Arrow had its smallest ever regular cast. When Arrow increased its regular cast size in season five (dropping KC, but adding Echo Kellum and Josh Segarra), the show's production budget somewhat improved over season four - extras returned, location shots returned. It wasn't quite up to season two, but it was at least an improvement.

Flash, meanwhile, added a net of three new regulars this season (gained four, lost one) without an budget increase. 

These shows aren't hiring regulars to spend money. They're hiring regulars to save money.