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Ratings and Scheduling: Hail to the Gods

caracas1914

By caracas1914
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LeighAn
LeighAn

If Arrow gets poor premiere ratings I will personally blame Black Siren/Katie Cassidy,  cause even though that is not how ratings work like at all I was promised tens of millions of viewers would tune

Chaser
Chaser

So when you talked about being protective of Oliver this season....you weren't talking about his intelligence right?

tv echo
tv echo

If Arrow ratings had gone up this season, would anyone be giving credit to S3 and S4?  No, of course not.  They'd be crediting the current season of the show.   But because ratings have gone down

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lemotomato

lemotomato

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Weren't Arrow's ratings better since LoT started airing? With the possible exception of LoT's pilot.

LoT was edging out Arrow a little bit in Live+7 numbers at one point. The CW sent out a press release in March (I think?) touting its ratings and announced LoT as its second highest rated show. I understand it was a marketing move, because who wants to admit that the shiny new thing they're promoting so much was drawing the same numbers as a 4-year old show, but still. I'm glad Arrow passed them, even though ratings are just for bragging rights.

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bijoux

bijoux

Cool. Thanks for the explanation. I was under the impression that Arrow has been performing better pretty steadily, so it didn't come as much of a shock. Although I wasn't paying that much attention to the other shows' ratings, to be frank.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

Even though I know ratings don't mean anything as far as the CW goes, I have to admit that I'm weirdly competitive about them sometimes. 

The Arrow wiki page has apparently updated the season average ratings using the more accurate Live+7 numbers from Zap2it. (Season 1, 2, 3, and 4- demo, total viewers). Zap2it's data are complete for the whole season, unlike Deadline's "Live+7 except for the last 2-3 episodes which are only Live+same day" bullshit.

Anyway, Live+SD, Live+7 averages by season (mine are slightly different from the Arrow wiki because they're using the wrong source for season 1, just like this tweet that's being shared a lot right now):

LoPjAlD.jpg

Not surprising to any of us here following the ratings as they happen, but they look very different from the numbers previously provided by Deadline, which was inaccurate info fueling all the "OMG, Arrow has been hemorrhaging viewers, seasons 1 and 2 were doing soooo much better in ratings" arguments. 

Also, just for comparison sake, average ratings for Flash:
ofqxW9E.jpg

Edited by lemotomato
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

9 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Anyway, Live+SD, Live+7 averages by season (mine are slightly different from the Arrow wiki because they're using the wrong source for season 1, just like this tweet that's being shared a lot right now):

LoPjAlD.jpg

Not surprising to any of us here following the ratings as they happen, but they look very different from the numbers previously provided by Deadline, which was inaccurate info fueling all the "OMG, Arrow has been hemorrhaging viewers, seasons 1 and 2 were doing soooo much better in ratings" arguments.

 

Really appreciate the accurate numbers, @lemotomato. :)

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lemotomato

lemotomato

7 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

Really appreciate the accurate numbers, @lemotomato. :)

No prob! :) I hope putting the ratings and the source links all in one place could save everyone some time the next time a debate about ratings comes up. 

7 hours ago, looptab said:

I'm not worried about S4's ratings, but about S3's higher ratings.  TIIC might get ideas.

I would hope TIIC know that the inflated season 3 ratings are from the bump they got with the Flash crossovers and not the content of the show :P

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kismet

kismet

Ouch on Reign & Crazy Ex-GF. I really wish they would reair CExGF again this summer and fully promote it, so I know when to tune in. There are so many holes in CW summer program that could get filled.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)
15 minutes ago, kismet said:

Ouch on Reign & Crazy Ex-GF. I really wish they would reair CExGF again this summer and fully promote it, so I know when to tune in. There are so many holes in CW summer program that could get filled.

Last month all episodes of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend were available for free on iTunes, you should check if they still are.

Edited by dtissagirl
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quarks

quarks

WB and the CW are probably happy with today's Amazon sales ratings.

The Arrow season four DVD set is #44 in Movies & TV (all), #4 in Movies & TV DVD > Action & Adventure, and #8 in Movies and TV DVD > Drama.  Amazon.com also says it's the number one new release in in Action & Adventure DVDs.

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quarks

quarks

Legends of Tomorrow was released last week, right? I expect the numbers slipped since then, since Amazon usually updates TV/Movie rankings every couple of hours. And for all we know, LoT customers headed to Walmart and Arrow customers headed to Amazon.

Here are the current rankings for the Arrowverse shows. All numbers/info are from Amazon.com only, and don't include other retail sales:

Arrow season four (released 8/30/2016):

DVD ($29.99): #45 in Movies & TV (note the slight change from the last time I checked this, showing how quickly Amazon updates rankings); #4 in DVD Action and Adventure, #8 DVD Drama.

Blu-Ray ($39.99): #64 in Movies & TV, #3 Blu-Ray Drama, #14 Blu-Ray Action and Adventure

Legends of Tomorrow season one (released 8/23/2016):

DVD ($27.99): #508 in Movies & TV, #60 in DVD Action and Adventure, #106 in DVD Drama

Blu-Ray ($27.99): #172 in Movies & TV, #27 in Blu-Ray Action and Adventure, no Drama listed.

Flash season two: (preorders only; will be released September 6, 2016):

DVD ($34.96): #254 in Movies & TV, #31 DVD Action and Adventure, #46 DVD Drama 

Blu-Ray ($37.99): #84 in Movies & TV, #4 Blu-Ray Drama, #16 Blu-Ray Action and Adventure

Supergirl season one (released August 9, 2016):

DVD ($32.99): #1109 in Movies & TV; #139 DVD Action and Adventure; #271 DVD Drama

Blu-Ray ($36.99): #309 in Movies & TV; #45 Blu-Ray Action and Adventure

Flash season one outsold Arrow season three, and Flash season two had a lot more viewers than Arrow season four, so I expect these numbers to change next week once Flash is officially released.  It's also entirely possible that the comparatively lower sales for the Legends of Tomorrow DVD have nothing to do with the show, and everything to do with the fact that currently Amazon is selling the Blu-Ray for the same prices.

I think the main takeaway from this, though, isn't so much which show is selling better in any given week, but that all four shows are selling, which is good news for WB. 

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quarks

quarks

Since my previous comparison came before Flash season two was officially released, an update on Amazon.com sales rankings for Arrowverse shows as of today. I also updated the prices since that may have an effect on purchases.  Again, all numbers/info are from Amazon.com only, and don't include other retail sales:

Arrow season four (released 8/30/2016):

DVD ($29.99): #92 in Movies & TV; #10 in DVD Action and Adventure, #20 DVD Drama.

Blu-Ray ($54.97): #193 in Movies & TV, #11 Blu-Ray Drama, #31 Blu-Ray Action and Adventure

Legends of Tomorrow season one (released 8/23/2016):

DVD ($24.96): #543 in Movies & TV, #67 in DVD Action and Adventure, #127 in DVD Drama

Blu-Ray ($29.96): #276 in Movies & TV, #44 in Blu-Ray Action and Adventure, no Drama listed.

Flash season two: (released September 6, 2016):

DVD ($29.99): #33 in Movies & TV, #3 DVD Action and Adventure, #9 DVD Drama 

Blu-Ray ($36.96): #21 in Movies & TV, #1 Blu-Ray Drama, #6 Blu-Ray Action and Adventure

Supergirl season one (released August 9, 2016):

DVD ($32.96): #797 in Movies & TV; #97 DVD Action and Adventure; #190 DVD Drama

Blu-Ray ($34.99): #445 in Movies & TV; #58 Blu-Ray Action and Adventure

 

So, since we last checked, sales for Flash are up slightly, sales for Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow are down, and sales for the Supergirl DVDs, but not the Blu-Rays, are up, and Amazon.com took Arrow's popularity last week as an excuse to jack up the Blu-Ray price. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Ratings no longer tell whole story in TV show survival odds
By Brian Lowry  Sep 13, 2016
http://www.wptz.com/money/ratings-no-longer-tell-whole-story-in-tv-show-survival-odds/41648258

Quote

The CW network is a virtual poster child for this evolving model, banking on digital revenue -- bolstered by its relationship with Netflix -- to help finance its series. Nor does it hurt that some of its more expensive shows, such as the superhero series "The Flash" and "Arrow," have been widely sold abroad by Warner Bros., which co-owns the network with CBS.

When CW launched, "Digital was a marketing tool only, and there was no streaming," said Rick Haskins, executive vice president of marketing and digital programs. "Early on, we said, 'A screen is a screen is a screen,' and people like to watch their shows on different screens."

CW's audience generally skews younger than that of other broadcasters, with a median age (meaning half fall below and above that line) of 43. But its digital profile is 20 years younger, with more of those people now watching content on mobile devices, like phones and tablets.

Edited by tv echo
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

That's interesting about the digital profile. More of my older friends have been discovering Arrow because their kids are discovering Arrow through streaming services and watch it on their phones and tablets. When they come home, they get their parents to watch, too. Those friends don't usually touch anything on The CW.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I'm concerned that Arrow's S5 premiere will get lower ratings than previous season premieres - and not just because of the general unpopularity of the back half of S4.

I just saw the Fall TV Broadcast Schedule in the new TV Guide Magazine, and Arrow has tougher competition in its time slot this season...

Wednesday at 8 pm (ET)
CW - Arrow
Fox - Lethal Weapon (new)
NBC - Blindspot
CBS - Survivor
ABC - The Goldbergs/Speechless (new)

Edited by tv echo
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Starfish35

Starfish35

I guess I'm just concerned (possibly unreasonably) that if they get lower ratings this season, it will be attributed to losing Laurel, and not all the other reasons, like the writing issues for the last couple of seasons, or the fact that all shows' ratings tend to drift lower the longer they go on.  

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quarks

quarks

22 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I guess I'm just concerned (possibly unreasonably) that if they get lower ratings this season, it will be attributed to losing Laurel, and not all the other reasons, like the writing issues for the last couple of seasons, or the fact that all shows' ratings tend to drift lower the longer they go on.  

I'm not. Yes, Laurel was associated with a couple of good numbers in the third season, and ratings/viewers dropped slightly after her death, but against that, Laurel had four seasons of largely bad numbers/trends, and the big and lingering drop last season was associated with the Oliver/Felicity breakup and increased fan complaints about the flashbacks, not Laurel. Plus, despite those drops and complaints, the season four DVD/Blu-Rays seem to have decent one-week sales, and as another thread just detailed, Arrow was still a top Netflix show back in May/June even after a drop/no new added episodes for months, numbers that Arrow is also watching.

In terms of competition, I suspect that Survivor and The Goldbergs will continue to do just fine, and Blindspot seems to settled into its middling would be awesome for the CW but so-so for NBC numbers, but I think it's a bit too early to judge how well Lethal Weapon will do.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Interesting perspective - wasn't sure which thread to post this in, but since it's about ratings...

Fall TV 2016: Comic-book shows are all over broadcast TV, but none of them are hits
SEPTEMBER 14, 2016, BY RICK PORTER
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/09/14/fall-tv-2016-comic-book-shows-are-everywhere-but-none-of-them-are-hits/

Quote

This season, there will be 10 shows based on comics, on four of the five networks. That’s an explosive amount of growth in just five years, and one that mirrors the way movie studios (which are, by and large, other units of the networks’ corporate parents) have come to rely on comic properties to fuel their summer slates.

Here’s the thing, though: None of those 10 shows is going to be a big hit, based on recent ratings history.

In the 2015-16 season, the average episode of a network show drew a 1.39 same-day rating in adults 18-49. Remove live sports, and the average is 1.31. The nine comic-book series on the air averaged 1.15.
*  *  *
That average is dragged down some by the fact that four of the nine — “The Flash,” “Arrow,” “Legends of Tomorrow” and “iZombie” — aired on The CW, whose ratings are well below those of the Big 4. You could call “The Flash” and its 1.37 rating last season a hit relative to other CW shows, since it was the only series on the network to score above a 1.0 in the 18-49 demographic. But in the larger broadcast universe, it’s not.

Remove The CW’s shows from the comics average, and the remaining series — “Agents of SHIELD” and “Agent Carter” on ABC, “Gotham” and “Lucifer” on FOX and “Supergirl” on CBS — averaged a 1.35. That’s just barely above the five-network, non-sports average.

So what’s the appeal? Well, Disney owns ABC and Marvel and has often treated “Agents of SHIELD” like a brand extension of its Marvel Cinematic Universe. The DC shows on The CW make a little more sense, as Warner Bros. (which owns half of The CW and all of DC), has had more success with its comic shows than anything else in recent years, and they can run without interrupting the movie version of the DC universe.
*  *  *
One thing the comic series have in common with their movie counterparts is (often) big openings followed by sizable declines.

“SHIELD,” “Gotham” and “Supergirl” all had 18-49 ratings of 3.1 or higher for their series premieres, and all had Season 1 averages at least 33 percent lower than that. On average, the nine shows on the air last year had Season 1 averages 31.5 percent lower than their series premieres. None of them increased their numbers in Season 2.
*  *  *
A big drop after the opening weekend is survivable, and often expected, with a big movie. TV isn’t built that way. Losing 30 percent or more of your debut audience, followed by the inevitable declines later in a show’s life, doesn’t suggest a great future.

comic-shows-ratings-graph.jpg?quality=85

Edited by tv echo
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quarks

quarks

Sigh. So, TVBytheNumbers:

1. Notices that four of the nine listed comic book shows actually beat the industry average for non-sports shows.

2. Fails to mention that of the five that didn't, one was cancelled, meaning that of the eight returning comic book shows, HALF beat the industry average.

3. Concludes from this that although half of the comic book shows are beating the industry average, comic book shows don't have a great future. 

HEADTHUNK.

Bonus irritation for going from the clickbait "hit" in the title to "big hit" in the actual article, to smudge over the fact that Flash is the undisputed hit of the CW network (and one reason why the CW was able to renegotiate with its affiliate stations and remain alive) and Gotham is a minor hit for Fox, heading into its third season, and double bonus irritation for failing to mention the post view and ancillary revenue earned by these shows. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is hardly ABC's biggest hit, but it does sell T-shirts.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)
2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I guess I'm just concerned (possibly unreasonably) that if they get lower ratings this season, it will be attributed to losing Laurel, and not all the other reasons, like the writing issues for the last couple of seasons, or the fact that all shows' ratings tend to drift lower the longer they go on.  

I think you can be 100% certain that some will attribute lower ratings to Laurel's death. I'm expecting it. But I don't think the network will think that, especially when you look at the shows it'll be up against too. Arrow still gets reasonable live viewings for a show heading into its fifth season and most of the audience seems to watch it online in the following days anyway. Live plus viewings seem to tell a more accurate story, IMO, and that's where they're doing totally fine. 

Also, if Laurel's death apparently was the be all and end all for this show, they wouldn't sell any s4 DVD's and it's doing really well so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Guest
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
Quote

I guess I'm just concerned (possibly unreasonably) that if they get lower ratings this season, it will be attributed to losing Laurel, and not all the other reasons, like the writing issues for the last couple of seasons, or the fact that all shows' ratings tend to drift lower the longer they go on.  

I wouldn't associate fandom comments/claims with what the EPs/network think/believe/interpret. Plus, as @Angel12d pointed out, if there really was an issue the S4 DVDs wouldn't be selling like hotcakes 

Edited by Morrigan2575
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kismet

kismet

I honestly think the ratings will follow a similar pattern & number as previous seasons. Arrow is an old show, it's not likely to bring in new viewers and the people who like it will tune in either on premiere night or stream within the +3/7 days. If the numbers have proven over the years, the audience is pretty stable regardless of who dies, hooks up or changes sides. A few dips or spikes always balances out.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

15 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I didn't realize that Arrow was going up against Lethal Weapon. Would that be why the season 5 promo has been exclusively "Gritty! Fights! Action! Did we mention guys fighting? Because we're going to have a lot of that!"

Nah the gritty fights and back to basics is because the CW has no money for CGI for Arrow -- All that money is going to Flash/SG lmao

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Nah the gritty fights and back to basics is because the CW has no money for CGI for Arrow -- All that money is going to Flash/SG lmao

Lol, there probably is some truth in this.  But even before the budget scramble probably started and way before they would have known they were being programed against Lethal Weapon, i have to think that the show runners wanted to "fix" the show and decided this was where they could do it.  There was magic on Arrow and those fights were iffy but there were waaaay more non special effect fights that were more problematic IMO.  Going back to gritty fights is only going to work if they figure out how to make the group fights interesting. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I confess (hanging head) - I'm tempted to watch Blindspot live and record Arrow.  Although I lost interest in Blindspot last season, I watched its S2 premiere this week and now I'm interested again because of the host of disclosures and new cast additions.  What to do, what to do...

Edited by tv echo
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