Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[ursula]

20 minutes ago, Trini said:

Not that I've seen.

There were a couple of interviews where she made it clear that romantic KillerVibe is not on the table, and that she personally didn't believe their relationship could or should ever go in that direction.

[adora721]

Here's one article in which she said, "Danielle Panabaker: I absolutely see it as a very much sibling relationship, you know, they riff each other a little bit, but they also love each other so much."

In 2x16, they wrote Cisco to say, "Hey, I know I'm practically your brother..." before asking Cait to dance.

[Trini]

So nothing about repulsion; thanks.

[ursula]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

So nothing about repulsion; thanks.

 

Danielle Panabacker has no problem propping Snowbarry at every opportunity and still presenting the relationship as possible after Westallen's wedding.

Her quick and persistent dismissals of KillerVibe indicate a clear revulsion towards the ship.

I don't think it's spoilery to say that that ship is never going to sail if DP has any say in the matter.

 

(And that's all I'm going to say about this. It's been 5 seasons of countless snake-like efforts to erase her black co-star and at this point, it's incomprehensible to me that DP's actions are still being given the benefit of the doubt.)

Edited November 30, 2018 by ursula

[SevenStars]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

So nothing about repulsion; thanks.

Yeah, I think repulsion is too strong of a word. But I think DP have made it clear that KillerVibe shouldn't go romantic. That she doesn't want it.

I don't want KillerVibe but the story seems to be leading that way.  But I think if it happens it will happen in later seasons. 

[Kate45]

3 hours ago, SevenStars said:

Yeah, I think repulsion is too strong of a word. But I think DP have made it clear that KillerVibe shouldn't go romantic. That she doesn't want it.

I don't want KillerVibe but the story seems to be leading that way.  But I think if it happens it will happen in later seasons. 

Repulsed is too strong a word. She’s never said she was repulsed by it or has given off that vibe, pardon the pun. However, she is quick to dismiss them as a romantic couple and says that they are like siblings. That sibling statement doesn’t ring true to me and I don’t know where she gets that from.

If Cisco is a sibling, then Barry is a sibling as well. But, she’s not made that statement to my knowledge. So, the question is why is Cisco a sibling, but Barry is a possible romantic partner according to Danielle? That doesn’t make much sense to

me.  

[Trini]

From the convention this weekend:

Quote

Hartley was asked if there are any love interested in the future for his character, and he says definitely yes.

"Something very very special is coming soon."

I feel like if they bring in a love interest for Ralph, they should get rid of one of the other supporting characters. **cough*Sherlogue*cough**

[Trini]

Also:

[ruby24]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

From the convention this weekend:

I feel like if they bring in a love interest for Ralph, they should get rid of one of the other supporting characters. **cough*Sherlogue*cough**

If this is Sue, I'll be fine with it. More than fine, in fact.

If it's anyone else, I won't care.

[Trini]

12 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

If this is Sue, I'll be fine with it. More than fine, in fact.

If it's anyone else, I won't care.

There's no need for them to be creative here; it's gonna be Sue. And Hartley has hinted as much before.

[Trini]

On 11/30/2018 at 8:13 AM, SevenStars said:

Yeah, I think repulsion is too strong of a word. But I think DP have made it clear that KillerVibe shouldn't go romantic. That she doesn't want it.

I don't want KillerVibe but the story seems to be leading that way.  But I think if it happens it will happen in later seasons. 

DP didn't want Caitlin/Julian to happen either, but it did. I know she doesn't want Cisco/Caitlin to be romantic; I'm just looking at the hints the show has been dropping.

And if the writers aren't really invested in it, it could indeed end up being the slowest of slow burns. (For the record I'd much rather have Cynthia back for Cisco, and Ronnie for Caitlin, but those two aren't coming back for any substantial amount of time if at all.)

[SevenStars]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

DP didn't want Caitlin/Julian to happen either, but it did. I know she doesn't want Cisco/Caitlin to be romantic; I'm just looking at the hints the show has been dropping.

And if the writers aren't really invested in it, it could indeed end up being the slowest of slow burns. (For the record I'd much rather have Cynthia back for Cisco, and Ronnie for Caitlin, but those two aren't coming back for any substantial amount of time if at all.)

I only want Ronnie for Caitlin if they recast the role because the actor who played Ronnie really wasn't good. DP needs to play opposite actors who are strong in their acting, because it seems to help her in her acting too. 

[adora721]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

DP didn't want Caitlin/Julian to happen either, but it did.

Did it happen though? I mean, one mediocre, lackluster kiss, which she probably allowed him to do so Julian would keep working on her Killer Frost problem and working with Barry isn't really a romance "happening." Julian kissing her on her "deathbed" isn't really a romance happening either.  She even told Julian about her reluctance to date when he asked her to dinner. It was clear she just wasn't that into Julian and he was doing most of the work. So, I don't really count Caitlin and Julian as a real ship; it barely existed and was very one sided. So, I'd say DP got her wish to prevent a real ship from happening with Julian.

4 hours ago, SevenStars said:

DP needs to play opposite actors who are strong in their acting, because it seems to help her in her acting too. 

Agreed that she needs a really good acting partner. Additionally, DP needs to be invested in her ship, too. Recall that she was actively talking about SB while Caitlin was in a relationship with Ronnie. DP needs to stay in her own shipping lane and commit to the ship she's actually a part of from now on.

[SimoneS]

Can't say that I would like anything romantic between Cisco and Caitlin. Frankly he is such a fun intelligent guy, he can do better. Caitlin is such a stick in the mud.

Edited December 2, 2018 by SimoneS

[RedVitC]

 

Jessica says about Nora's secrets that there's a relationship going on with a scary person and you don't know what side she's on all of a sudden. It'll be a 'jarring cliffhanger'

[Trini]

I like the things I'm hearing about the 100th, but I'm dreading this Nora cliffhanger. I'm also concerned that from the Flashtime promo it seems that Joe and Wally will be missing - no new footage. Helbing said Wally would be in a few episodes this season; now I'm wondering if that arrangement fell through.

Looks like the speed force symbols/language come back into play, though I'm sure we won't get an explanation -- which is all I want!

[Brinny]

I think the Nora cliffhanger of her working with someone else makes sense though. We know that her powers were supressed in the future, but we don't know how she finds out about them/has the chip removed, right? And if she's a new speedster, who doesn't really know the extent of her powers yet (doesn't know how to phase, for example), how does she know how to go back in time? I don't mean the possibility of it, but the practicality. The first time Barry goes back, it's an accident, and he has to learn how to travel to a specific time. So, I feel like we'll find out that Nora IS working with someone sinister (Reverse Flash, maybe), but that she's either naïve to how dangerous that person actually is OR that she was promised it would help get her dad back in her timeline, so she just doesn't care, thinking that the end will justify the mean. Or both, I suppose. Those don't have to be mutually exclusive. 

Either way, I'm pretty sure there will be a happy ending for West-Allen family by the end of the season*. (Everyone is agreed that Nora changing the timeline results in her having a twin brother in the future, right? Is the "We're gonna need more diapers" the only line we've yet to hear either past or present?)

 

*Although, come to think of it, last season REALLY ended on a downer. I'm sure there'll be a happy West-Allen moment, sometime, after all the scary person Nora is working with stuff is resolved would probably be more accurate. 

[Trini]

JPK spoiled in another interview who Nora is working with - It's Reverse Flash.

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

JPK spoiled in another interview who Nora is working with - It's Reverse Flash.

This makes sense.  He would be desperate to manipulate her to save himself.

 

6 hours ago, Brinny said:

Either way, I'm pretty sure there will be a happy ending for West-Allen family by the end of the season*. (Everyone is agreed that Nora changing the timeline results in her having a twin brother in the future, right? Is the "We're gonna need more diapers" the only line we've yet to hear either past or present?)

I expect Iris will be pregnant with twins next season, but I wonder if Nora is completely wiping out her existence. The timeline is reset and everyone forgets about her after she leaves. Probably not. 

[Brinny]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

 

I expect Iris will be pregnant with twins next season, but I wonder if Nora is completely wiping out her existence. The timeline is reset and everyone forgets about her after she leaves. Probably not. 

That could be, but I’d be with you on betting that Nora won’t be 100% wiped out of existence. Whether she’s a “different” Nora than we know or not will remain to be seen, but I think that because mostly everyone seems so impressed with JPK’s casting (from fans to GG and CP, etc) that they’ll be reluctant to have her gone completely. Like, even if Nora gets sent back at the end of this season (which I assume she will), I feel like she’ll pop back in and out akin to how they’ve been using Wally this season and last. 

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Brinny said:

That could be, but I’d be with you on betting that Nora won’t be 100% wiped out of existence. Whether she’s a “different” Nora than we know or not will remain to be seen, but I think that because mostly everyone seems so impressed with JPK’s casting (from fans to GG and CP, etc) that they’ll be reluctant to have her gone completely. Like, even if Nora gets sent back at the end of this season (which I assume she will), I feel like she’ll pop back in and out akin to how they’ve been using Wally this season and last. 

Good point. I hadn't considered the actress' popularity influencing how they use her character going forward. I hope we get a break from Nora after this season. Honestly, I feel like Barry and Iris are far too young and newlywed to have all this adult child drama.  

[Trini]

I think they'll put off Iris being pregnant for as long as they can; they're not interested in babies. There's a reason they made Nora's age/birthdate vague. I don't think it's going to be this season - including announcing it at the end of the season finale.

And Nora is and has been screwing her own future with staying in the past; so yeah, I expect changes. Her twin is coming eventually! I'd love to see him show up next season, but they probably won't want to do a retread of this season. Maybe he'll be recurring instead of a regular.

[BeautifulFlower]

46 minutes ago, Trini said:

I think they'll put off Iris being pregnant for as long as they can; they're not interested in babies. There's a reason they made Nora's age/birthdate vague. I don't think it's going to be this season - including announcing it at the end of the season finale.

And Nora is and has been screwing her own future with staying in the past; so yeah, I expect changes. Her twin is coming eventually! I'd love to see him show up next season, but they probably won't want to do a retread of this season. Maybe he'll be recurring instead of a regular.

They already said she was born a few years before 2024 crisis. So, that's between 2020-2022. She's from 30 years in the future, which makes her in her late twenties. No matter what, Iris will be pregnant in season 6 or 7

[SevenStars]

4 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

They already said she was born a few years before 2024 crisis. So, that's between 2020-2022. She's from 30 years in the future, which makes her in her late twenties. No matter what, Iris will be pregnant in season 6 or 7

Unless Nora coming to the past change that. They can actually have a storyline about this. Have Barry and Iris all excited to find out they are going to be parents at a certain date,  have Iris take a pregnancy test expecting to be pregnant at a certain month base on Nora's birthday. But find out that she isn't. Have months go by without her getting pregnant. Have her and Barry start to fear, believe that Nora coming back into the past have erease Nora from existence. This could be an on-going fear of theirs, until the writers decides that it's time for Iris to be pregnant. Even while pregnant they can still have this fear, especially when they find out they are having twins, instead of just one child.

 

So yeah, the writers can play with this and be as creative as they want.

Edited December 4, 2018 by SevenStars

[phoenics]

15 hours ago, Trini said:

JPK spoiled in another interview who Nora is working with - It's Reverse Flash.

We've suspected this ever since she tried to kill her dad with that RF move.

[SimoneS]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

I think they'll put off Iris being pregnant for as long as they can; they're not interested in babies. There's a reason they made Nora's age/birthdate vague. I don't think it's going to be this season - including announcing it at the end of the season finale.

So many of the lines that Barry mentioned when he returned from the Speed Force have happened makes me think the "we're gonna need more diapers" (the twins) will happen sooner than later. However, I think having babies would be problematic for the show given all Barry and Iris' adventures and work.

[SimoneS]

Tonight Thawne seemed to hint that Barry and Iris had twins and the timeline is now changed. I am now thinking that by the time Nora is done, everything will be altered including her birth. She wants to stop Barry from disappearing. She might be successful, but in turn alter her existence giving Barry and Iris back the twins.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

Tonight Thawne seemed to hint that Barry and Iris had twins and the timeline is now changed. I am now thinking that by the time Nora is done, everything will be altered including her birth. She wants to stop Barry from disappearing. She might be successful, but in turn alter her existence giving Barry and Iris back the twins.

I sure hope it does.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Tonight Thawne seemed to hint that Barry and Iris had twins and the timeline is now changed.

We also have to remember that Thawne knew the 'original' Barry Allen/Flash that didn't have his parents murdered and got powers later in life. My take is that he's referring to that version.

But in any case, Nora is definitely going to change her own timeline.

[Nateg]

If zoom was taken by the time wraith, wouldn’t that throw off the entire end of season 2? Also, why didn’t Cisco vibe the dagger to another dimension instead of just space?

[Maverick]

 I assume the Wraiths pulled Zoom back to where he belonged so it wouldn't alter what happened in Season 2.   As for the second part, yeah that was pretty dumb.   I thought he sent it to one of the dead Earths where he sent (or planned to send) a nuke last season.   

[Proteus]

https://ew.com/tv/2018/12/04/the-flash-100th-episode-nora-spoilers/

[SimoneS]

The show is already has so many men, but I wish they would have more of John Wesley Shipp. I prefer him as a member of the team than Ralph.

[Trini]

Quote

Will The Flash give us any more glimpses of Nora’s life in the future, and will we see future versions of Iris and everyone else? –Mariam

The good news: “Yes, we will see Iris in the future,” Candice Patton shared during our visit to the set, when Episode 11 was being filmed. However, “We haven’t shot it [yet].”

https://tvline.com/2018/12/07/legends-of-tomorow-spoilers-season-4-big-bad/

[phoenics]

So - in the Arrow Elseworlds episode - the writing in the Big Bad Book was the SAME as the symbols Barry wrote when he came out of the Speedforce in S4 AND the same as the symbols Nora writes in (that EoWells in the future understood too)... so how is this connected?  Is the language a speedforce language that has the power to alter reality?  Or is it something special about the book?

Was Nora left out of the crossover because she might know how to counteract the whole thing?  Or?

And what big bad is The Monitor trying to prep them all for?  The Anti-Monitor?

[ruby24]

So with Crisis on Infinite Earths as next year's crossover, what exactly does that mean for The Flash? Isn't that the reason he goes missing in 2024? So what's happening next year, I don't understand.

[Primal Slayer]

Well the future tends to change itself or maybe Barry will disappear and we'll see him trying to get back for half a season.

[ruby24]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Well the future tends to change itself or maybe Barry will disappear and we'll see him trying to get back for half a season.

Ohhh...yeah I guess I could see that. So he could go missing early, like in the season finale, and be trying to get back for the first seven episodes of next season possibly. Eh- not sure I like the sound of that, tbh.

Also I was really hoping Iris would be pregnant (with twins now, per the timeline change) and be having the babies by the mid-season finale of next season. But that's unlikely with Barry missing, imo.

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Ohhh...yeah I guess I could see that. So he could go missing early, like in the season finale, and be trying to get back for the first seven episodes of next season possibly. Eh- not sure I like the sound of that, tbh.

Also I was really hoping Iris would be pregnant (with twins now, per the timeline change) and be having the babies by the mid-season finale of next season. But that's unlikely with Barry missing, imo.

Well since they like to have Iris sit out I could see her going into labor during the Crisis and Barry having to run off to save the world.

[ruby24]

Well, I can see events coming early but I honesty wouldn't want him to be missing for the first seven episodes of the season, that's just too much. He can go missing for the crossover as part of the whole thing though, that's fine. As long as he's back by the end of it.

But the crossover should be episode eight again next year so Iris can give birth on The Flash's own mid-season finale Christmas episode next season. That would be good.

[ruby24]

Okay never mind, I've figured it out. 

This is what will likely happen. The events of 2024 come early. Barry disappears and Kara dies, as per the comics. BUT both of them will return/be resurrected on their own shows later. 

Iris will be pregnant (hopefully with the twins) by this season finale, so that she can give birth either before or maybe even during the crossover, and so Barry disappearing right after or while his kids are being born kinda lines up with comics canon in a way and makes it more sad of course. 

And the earths will all merge together as a result of this crossover, which is also what happens in the comics, so finally everyone's on the same earth- Batman, Superman, Arrow, Flash, etc. Justice League can actually be formed in the future.

Edited December 12, 2018 by ruby24

[Trini]

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

5.10 - "The Flash and the Furious" promo:

 

More glimpses of young Nora, and the Flash Museum. Somehow, Barry gets locked in the Pipeline - by Nora? And more Reverse Flash, and Cicada, who has not stayed away long. Was that a glimpse of Future Iris? Or present Iris in the future, because she's in the Museum too.

I'm not sure, but it looks like Barry travels to the future (pretty sure he's in the Flash Museum), but what's intriguing is that I think Iris is there with him too (in one shot I think that's Candice's head in the blurry foreground). Maybe they are not actually there, but it's Cisco vibing them there??

Also, I think they've refined the mask/cowl on the Flash costume, but it still needs the chin strap, IMO.

[SimoneS]

5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Okay never mind, I've figured it out. 

This is what will likely happen. The events of 2024 come early. Barry disappears and Kara dies, as per the comics. BUT both of them will return/be resurrected on their own shows later. 

Iris will be pregnant (hopefully with the twins) by the this season finale, so that she can give birth either before or maybe even during the crossover, and so Barry disappearing right after or while his kids are being born kinda lines up with comics canon in a way and makes it more sad of course. 

And the earths will all merge together as a result of this crossover, which is also what happens in the comics, so finally everyone's on the same earth- Batman, Superman, Arrow, Flash, etc. Justice League can actually be formed in the future.

I think that this is a possible scenario. However, I wonder if DCUE will approve this given that it has changed its head person and is attempting to streamline its movie production. Having a tv Justice League will just damage its movies even more.

Edited December 12, 2018 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 10:32 PM, ruby24 said:

Okay never mind, I've figured it out. 

This is what will likely happen. The events of 2024 come early. Barry disappears and Kara dies, as per the comics. BUT both of them will return/be resurrected on their own shows later. 

 

I disagree. Nora has been in the past for awhile now. We saw that her presence has affected Cicada and those metas death. They still showed the newspaper saying Barry disappears in 2024.

 

When Eobard went back in time and changed the OG timeline, that newspaper said 2024 

 

Post flashpoint, the newspaper still hasn't changed from 2024.

 

No matter what, it's obvious that the 2024 thing is a fixed point.

[Trini]

Quote

Question: Will The Flash give us any more hints about what Nora seems to be hiding? —SSH

Ausiello: Now that we know there is some sort of alliance with Eobard Thawne, you should expect “a flash-forward flashback episode” that explains “how all that came to be, which will be a lot of fun,” says showrunner Todd Helbing. “You’ll slowly start to get the pieces of info that you need, but there will probably be one episode where we explain how that all happened to get her to come back [in time].”

https://tvline.com/2018/12/14/million-little-things-spoilers-season-1-episode-14-regina-secret/

From the promo, the "flash-forwrd flashback" episode might be the next one?

[BaggythePanther]

9 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

No matter what, it's obvious that the 2024 thing is a fixed point.

So the Crisis on Infinite Earths that’s coming next fall is going to be Crisis number 1 out of 2?

[SimoneS]

It is possible that the crisis event next season changes the 2024 headline. After all, the show is unlikely to last for six more years so the writers might want to resolve Barry's potential disappearance sooner than later.

[SevenStars]

44 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It is possible that the crisis event next season changes the 2024 headline. After all, the show is unlikely to last for six more years so the writers might want to resolve Barry's potential disappearance sooner than later.

Since Flash is still there #1 show, I think that if they do it next year, it will be about others shows in the Arrowverse not lasting 6 more years. I wouldn't be surprise if it was because Arrow will be done next year.

[SimoneS]

22 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

Since Flash is still there #1 show, I think that if they do it next year, it will be about others shows in the Arrowverse not lasting 6 more years. I wouldn't be surprise if it was because Arrow will be done next year.

Good point. It does look like Arrow and Supergirl won't last more than a couple more seasons. They could exchange Oliver's death/disappearance for Barry's as they end Arrow.

[adora721]

33 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

Since Flash is still there #1 show, I think that if they do it next year, it will be about others shows in the Arrowverse not lasting 6 more years.

I think you underestimate how much a certain someone needs the attention to always, always focus on "Arrow", his creation. He's even made the saving of the multiverse about Oliver Queen. I don't expect next year to be any different from all the other crossovers that focused far too much on Oliver's story. And of course, prepare for Felicity to be pregnant with triplets to outdo Iris' twins.

The first crossover was far more balanced than all the others. Once "Arrow" is gone, perhaps balance will be restored and all the shows will get their proper respect, which includeds having all the leading ladies on the other shows.

Edited December 16, 2018 by adora721