Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[RedVitC]

On 9/23/2017 at 5:49 PM, DearEvette said:

It seems like the poster is only showing super-hero characters.  Not regular people.  Iris is the only non-super being shown because, well it is her wedding.  But everyone else is in their super hero/villain guise. , i.e. VIbe but not Cisco, KF but not Caitlyn, Firestorm instead of Jackson & Stein etc....    No Joe.  No Harrison Wells dopp.  So no Felicity either. 

But... that does make the absence of Kid Flash rather glaring. 

Yeah, they probably were going for the super powered/mask characters. It's just a little strange since that doesn't necessarily seem to reflect the content of the episode. Didn't they say Kara and Alex would be at the center of everything during the crossovers? So not having Alex on the poster is a little strange, but still a cool looking poster and I'm happy that Iris is on it. I guess it's a quiet frustration of mine that at least promo wise the Arrowverse tends to have a small view of what it means to be a hero despite saying that you don't need powers or a suit to be a hero. And yes, what's up with Kid Flash not being on the poster? I really don't know what's going on there between Keiynan missing the filming of at least 3 episodes and not being on the poster with the other characters with powers or masks.

[RedVitC]

Huh, I don't think Olicity will be getting divorced at all (nor WestAllen). They're in a pretty good position to last. First narrative wise it's pretty clear that Felicity is the woman for Oliver (I know opinions on this differ, but I mean in terms of how their relationship is framed by the narrative itself. Mortal lock etc). Plus the showrunners pretty much admitted that even when trying to write away from the relationship they kept coming back to it, so I find it unlikely that they'd try to write away from it again, especially so late in the show's run. Then the show seems to be committed to keeping romantic drama low after complaints about that and has been (in my opinion) quite low key about Oliver and Felicity getting back together. Having them get married and then divorcing them would bring way more romantic drama than just keeping them together. Plus there's a child involved now, in some capacity at least. Then David said that he and Stephen discussed how Oliver and Felicity as a couple should be more like Diggle and Lyla in the sense that they can just be a couple working together without all the will they won't they drama (paraphrasing, not sure what the exact words were). They don't write the show, but the showrunners do seem to listen to Stephen's opinions and input. In short, it sounds to me like pretty solid ground.

As for the other point, I've read all kinds of opinions today and I can totally understand feeling upset about this as a fan. Wanting your OTP's wedding focuses on them, I understand. Wanting Iris to have the spotlight for once, I understand. So I'm not trying to change your mind and I'm sad to see a lot of my fellow WestAllen fans upset about this news. I guess, personally I don't feel that it cheapens either couple or that one takes away from the other. (I feel like that happens on a fan level more than on the show level.) Iris and Barry's vows and feelings won't be any less heartfelt or beautiful because they're followed by Oliver and Felicity's vows (I'm guessing that's the order of the weddings). I wouldn't say that I'm 100% happy, because I do feel like ideally both couples would have deserved a special episode with everyone there and all the bells and whistles and since both couples will say their vows they might not be as long as they would have been in a solo wedding. 

And I know some people have been upset about the stealing thunder line, but if you read on he clarifies that it's simply that there is a second wedding that in his eyes kind of takes away from a solo wedding. Not that the second wedding is somehow better/grander.

I'm trying to keep an open mind. I don't know, the weddings taking place after a funeral might be a little more ???

Edited September 27, 2017 by RedVitC

[Trini]

7 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

As for the other point, I've read all kinds of opinions today and I can totally understand feeling upset about this as a fan. Wanting your OTP's wedding focuses on them, I understand. Wanting Iris to have the spotlight for once, I understand. So I'm not trying to change your mind and I'm sad to see a lot of my fellow WestAllen fans upset about this news. I guess, personally I don't feel that it cheapens either couple or that one takes away from the other. (I feel like that happens on a fan level more than on the show level.) Iris and Barry's vows and feelings won't be any less heartfelt or beautiful because they're followed by Oliver and Felicity's vows (I'm guessing that's the order of the weddings). I wouldn't say that I'm 100% happy, because I do feel like ideally both couples would have deserved a special episode with everyone there and all the bells and whistles and since both couples will say their vows they might not be as long as they would have been in a solo wedding. 

I feel similarly, except that I think it does diminish the second couple in a way, because it makes the first couple the one to aspire to. Essentially WestAllen is prioritized, even if both couples are hitting a milestone.

But yeah, I'm going to try and avoid more wedding spoilers, because I do want to see how this all plays out in the finished product.

[Trini]

I just knew they would have some type of twist with the wedding (besides a villain interruption which I expected), and I guess we know now what it is. ::HARSH SIGH::

[BkWurm1]

19 hours ago, Trini said:

I feel similarly, except that I think it does diminish the second couple in a way, because it makes the first couple the one to aspire to. Essentially WestAllen is prioritized, even if both couples are hitting a milestone.

But yeah, I'm going to try and avoid more wedding spoilers, because I do want to see how this all plays out in the finished product.

I think it will all depend on how they frame the second wedding.  From an Arrow viewer's standpoint, they've been working toward this all on their own for going on two years so apart from WA getting married before them and the general romantic mindset weddings always provide, there's no real direct connection and of course Olicity was together before Barry and Iris figured stuff out so it's not like they were looking at WA as proof a hero could get the girl after all.  And it's not like the problems that Oliver and Felicity had were ones that Barry and Iris tackled and conquered as an example to Olicity.  They had pretty distinct journeys IMO.

I suppose something might come up in the crossover like Barry and Iris deciding to go through with the wedding under less than ideal circumstances because you never know what might happen and that might inspire them to not wait another day.  I could see Olicity following their example under those circumstances but otherwise, these are both couples doing their own thing, not looking to others to tell them what they should do or how they should act.  So inspiration perhaps, but no, no aspiration going on.  

Edited September 27, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

I don't know how to get to the original source (I don't do snapchat), but Candice posted this:

http://candicanesunited.tumblr.com/post/165807677282/first-look-at-iris-wedding-dress-from-candicekp

Monique Lhuillier wedding dress!

[Trini]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I could see Olicity following their example under those circumstances but otherwise, these are both couples doing their own thing, not looking to others to tell them what they should do or how they should act.  So inspiration perhaps, but no, no aspiration going on.  

I wasn't talking about Oliver + Felicity literally aspiring to be like Barry + Iris. I'm talking about the overall narrative from showrunners.

 

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think it will all depend on how they frame the second wedding.  From an Arrow viewer's standpoint, they've been working toward this all on their own for going on two years so apart from WA getting married before them and the general romantic mindset weddings always provide, there's no real direct connection and of course Olicity was together before Barry and Iris figured stuff out so it's not like they were looking at WA as proof a hero could get the girl after all.  And it's not like the problems that Oliver and Felicity had were ones that Barry and Iris tackled and conquered as an example to Olicity.  They had pretty distinct journeys IMO.

I agree that that the couples have distinct journeys. I disagree that O+F have been working towards marriage for two years, but I'm not going to get into the problems with Olicity here.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Trini

[BkWurm1]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:45 PM, Trini said:

I feel similarly, except that I think it does diminish the second couple in a way, because it makes the first couple the one to aspire to. Essentially WestAllen is prioritized, even if both couples are hitting a milestone.

1

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I wasn't talking about Oliver + Felicity literally aspiring to be like Barry + Iris. I'm talking about the overall narrative from showrunners.

Ok, from a narrative and not a literal way, how does the showrunners having two weddings with the first couple saying vows somehow make the second couple deciding to also say vows diminish the second couple?  And what do you mean when you say aspire?  Because if it's not literally Oliver and Felicity aspiring to be like Barry and Iris after they've said their I dos, who are the ones that are trying to aspire to be like WA? 

You mentioned the narrative but I'm confused what you mean because the narrative from my standpoint is just the storyline aka what the showrunners decided to have happen, a script that they would have written after all the showrunners got together and plotted out the crossover so it wouldn't be like MG getting jealous of Kreisberg and waving his hand and saying "Oh!  I want that too!" and trying to jam in Olicity last minute.  So yeah, just looking for an expansion on your thought process here.   

[ruby24]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Ok, from a narrative and not a literal way, how does the showrunners having two weddings with the first couple saying vows somehow make the second couple deciding to also say vows diminish the second couple?  And what do you mean when you say aspire?  Because if it's not literally Oliver and Felicity aspiring to be like Barry and Iris after they've said their I dos, who are the ones that are trying to aspire to be like WA? 

You mentioned the narrative but I'm confused what you mean because the narrative from my standpoint is just the storyline aka what the showrunners decided to have happen, a script that they would have written after all the showrunners got together and plotted out the crossover so it wouldn't be like MG getting jealous of Kreisberg and waving his hand and saying "Oh!  I want that too!" and trying to jam in Olicity last minute.  So yeah, just looking for an expansion on your thought process here.   

I actually wonder about this though. Thanks to the save-the-date cards on The Flash finale last season, fans spotted that it was supposed to be for November, so I'm thinking they did intend a big wedding event for them on the crossover for a while.

But I question whether the double wedding idea came later on.

[BkWurm1]

26 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I actually wonder about this though. Thanks to the save-the-date cards on The Flash finale last season, fans spotted that it was supposed to be for November, so I'm thinking they did intend a big wedding event for them on the crossover for a while.

But I question whether the double wedding idea came later on.

At the same time, people in the Olicity fandom have been bringing up the idea of an Olicity crossover wedding to MG  and SA since the engagement happened three years ago in Arrow's season three.  (Much to my cringing second-hand embarrassment) so I know it wasn't a new thought and of course Arrow had filmed the needed reconciliation episodes for Olicity last year before the save the date cards came to play so it's very likely this double wedding has been the plan from the get-go, lol, whether we love the idea or not.  

[Featherhat]

I highly doubt MG or whoever suddenly decided to jam an Olicity wedding in there for whatever reason. These crossovers are a big deal to the shows, CW and WBDC etc, everything would have had to be planned out and approved, even if it ends up being a mess onscreen. Most likely they liked the idea of the "twist" to get maximum media reaction and having everyone there for both weddings and then both shows are free to do whatever they want with their own couples for the rest of the season whether good or bad and have any other big moments on their own shows.

I don't know exactly when the double wedding idea came about but both couples will end up with at least some of the traditional build up (even if for Olicity it was 2 years ago) and then apparently hurried weddings in a park right after a funeral, so.....

I bet Barry is going to stand there as Oliver's best man since Digg is officiating the wedding.

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I highly doubt MG or whoever suddenly decided to jam an Olicity wedding in there for whatever reason. These crossovers are a big deal to the shows, CW and WBDC etc, everything would have had to be planned out and approved, even if it ends up being a mess onscreen. Most likely they liked the idea of the "twist" to get maximum media reaction 

Yeah, they basically said it in interviews that they had to find a way to make the crossover even bigger than last year and to do that they decided to focus on making it as emotional as possible. One death and two weddings is how they thought they could achieve that apparently. It's not so much thinking of if it makes sense for those couples to get married in that way but how much buzz can I get marrying the two main couples of the shows?

Berlanti talked about the possibility of Oliver as a married superhero two years ago so it's not like it was a development that occurred to them overnight..it was something that was going to happen for both couples according to the narrative of their two shows and the timing is for both in the crossover because the EPs want to make it a huge event.

[tofutan]

I wonder if Flash and Arrow will have similar "getting used to married life" storylines after the weddings. 

[RedVitC]

Yeah, I think  the Arrow writers said something about how they were thinking about stories for Oliver and Felicity in season 6 during the filming of season 5, something like that. So I think this double wedding idea might have been part of their main plans for a while. I wonder if financial considerations played a part as well. Every guest star needs to get payed to appear in an episode. Both shows would want to have all these guest stars (or quite a few) at the wedding of their main couple. So it would cost quite a bit to gather everyone again for another episode later in the year. So if both couples get married during the episodes (where everyone is going to be there even regardless of any weddings) it saves quite a lot of money.

 

From Spoiler Room:

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Any news on The Flash‘s Westallen wedding during the crossover will be greatly appreciated! — Fowsia
How about pre-crossover? That “Girls Night Out” episode I previously told you about? It is indeed the respective bachelor and bachelorette parties for Barry and Iris. Here’s what you should know: Cisco’s best-laid plans go awry with the guys, while a familiar face crashes the girls’ party.

I wonder if they'll give a reason why Oliver isn't there. Cause at least what we've seen on screen Barry and Oliver seem to be closer friends than Iris and Felicity. (But I guess you need to fill in the blanks for all these crossover friendships, because if you just go by the crossovers these characters have maybe spent a total of 2-3 months in each other's company over the years)

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, I have to assume there will be a throwaway line to explain why he is not there.  

[RedVitC]

Possible wedding dresses for Iris:

 

 

Aaah! Seeing potential wedding dresses is making this more real. I know they're getting married, but knowing it is one thing and seeing potential wedding dresses is aaaaah! Exciting!

Edited September 28, 2017 by RedVitC

[Trini]

5 hours ago, RedVitC said:

... while a familiar face crashes the girls’ party.

Caitlin/Killer Frost, most likely. Although, but I'm assuming she's already part of the party, so maybe they're just talking about her Killer Frost persona? (OH I still HATE this arc) Or someone who would be an actual surprise?( Come on, Linda and/or Gypsy!)

Excited to see the girls and the boys doing their own things in this episode!

[Trini]

5 hours ago, RedVitC said:

... So I think this double wedding idea might have been part of their main plans for a while. ...

Both shows were planning to marry their main couples eventually, but I really, really doubt they were always planning to have them both get married at the same time, in the same episode - of another show (it seems). Besides the fact that the EPs (especially the Arrow EPs) hardly pay attention to what's happening on the other show.

We know the Flash writers were planning the crossover wedding of Barry & Iris since at least early spring this year with that save-the-date card. I don't know if Arrow  or its writers had or said anything to indicate last season that Oliver/Felicity were getting married this season.
 

5 hours ago, RedVitC said:

I wonder if financial considerations played a part as well. Every guest star needs to get payed to appear in an episode. Both shows would want to have all these guest stars (or quite a few) at the wedding of their main couple. So it would cost quite a bit to gather everyone again for another episode later in the year. So if both couples get married during the episodes (where everyone is going to be there even regardless of any weddings) it saves quite a lot of money.

^This is the most reasonable explanation about how the other wedding got tacked on, I think.

The crossover was already going to be an event with introducing The Ray and Earth-X (and the doppelgangers), the big wedding, and all of the 4 shows fully being involved (plus whatever subplots each would bring); adding another impromptu wedding seems like overkill from a storytelling standpoint. Maybe Oliver was going to re-propose to Felicity originally; I don't think double wedding was always the plan.

[Trini]

21 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

You mentioned the narrative but I'm confused what you mean because the narrative from my standpoint is just the storyline aka what the showrunners decided to have happen, a script that they would have written after all the showrunners got together and plotted out the crossover so it wouldn't be like MG getting jealous of Kreisberg and waving his hand and saying "Oh!  I want that too!" and trying to jam in Olicity last minute.  So yeah, just looking for an expansion on your thought process here.   

I'm probably not explaining very well, sorry! We'll see how things play out in context in November, but in the scenario they've set up -where the couples will be compared directly- Barry/Iris are kind of the idealized* couple. If Barry & Iris' marriage influences Oliver & Felicity's decision to wed, that indirectly says that O want what B/I have. Normally we wouldn't even compare them at all in this way, but with both couples hitting the same milestone(!) at the same time(!!) in the same episode(!!!), it's implicitly there. They did a similar thing with Barry/Iris and Kara/Mon-El in the musical, and it wasn't an equal comparison then either; B/I came out looking better for different reasons. But all this depends on how the crossover is written.

I don't think there's necessarily envy involved, but "I want that too" could have definitely played a part.

*(that doesn't mean "perfect")

[Trini]

Episode 4.02 description:

Quote

"Mixed Signals" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, DV) (HDTV)

BARRY AND IRIS GO TO COUPLES THERAPY - Barry (Grant Gustin) has his hands full when he takes on a dangerous meta (guest star Dominic Burgess) who can control technology, while also confronting an obstacle in his personal life: the ramifications of abandoning Iris (Candice Patton) for six months to balance the Speed Force. Meanwhile, Gypsy (guest star Jessica Camacho) breaches in for a hot date with Cisco (Carlos Valdes), but she gets annoyed when his work keeps them apart.

Alexandra La Roche directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza (#402).
Original airdate 10/17/2017.

[Trini]

I don't usually notice crew changes, but the writers for these first two episodes of the season have been new people. Butler and Garza were writers/producers for a few Nickelodeon shows. Not sure how to feel about that, but I am looking forward to 3.02.
 

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Barry has his hands full when he takes on a dangerous meta (guest star Dominic Burgess) who can control technology ...

I don't think this villain or this actor were announced. But he might not be a big part of the episode, kind of like Shade last season.

Quote

... while also confronting an obstacle in his personal life: the ramifications of abandoning Iris for six months to balance the Speed Force.

Come on, the city(world?) was going to be destroyed; but I'm glad that we'll be hearing more of Iris' feelings and they'll be tackling the issue head-on. Bonus points if they bring up Barry's 9-month coma, because that doesn't get brought up enough.

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... Meanwhile, Gypsy breaches in for a hot date with Cisco, but she gets annoyed when his work keeps them apart.

This sounds really fun! Does this mean we get to see Gypsy in date clothes? Yay!

[cambridgeguy]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Come on, the city(world?) was going to be destroyed; but I'm glad that we'll be hearing more of Iris' feelings and they'll be tackling the issue head-on. Bonus points if they bring up Barry's 9-month coma, because that doesn't get brought up enough.

While they're at it maybe they can talk about the Flash being destined to vanish in the near future.  They spent so much time worrying about the byline in the future newspaper they totally ignored the headline about Barry vanishing in a crisis.  Shouldn't that be equally important?

[BkWurm1]

On 9/28/2017 at 7:42 PM, Trini said:

Both shows were planning to marry their main couples eventually, but I really, really doubt they were always planning to have them both get married at the same time, in the same episode - of another show (it seems). Besides the fact that the EPs (especially the Arrow EPs) hardly pay attention to what's happening on the other show.

We know the Flash writers were planning the crossover wedding of Barry & Iris since at least early spring this year with that save-the-date card. I don't know if Arrow  or its writers had or said anything to indicate last season that Oliver/Felicity were getting married this season.
 

^This is the most reasonable explanation about how the other wedding got tacked on, I think.

The crossover was already going to be an event with introducing The Ray and Earth-X (and the doppelgangers), the big wedding, and all of the 4 shows fully being involved (plus whatever subplots each would bring); adding another impromptu wedding seems like overkill from a storytelling standpoint. Maybe Oliver was going to re-propose to Felicity originally; I don't think double wedding was always the plan.

3

Well, originally Arrow would have been the last episode back when they were planning the crossovers last spring so that is a big hint to how far back these plans likely have gone.  The producers have been saying from the start that after an alien invasion last year that the only way they could top it this year was by making it emotional so all the Ray stuff and Earth-X would just be background spectacle while they knew it would be the personal stuff between the characters that really was going to make it stand out.  So yeah, a double wedding does make sense to me from the start (well makes sense if I try to think like the showrunners rather than what I really think is a better story to tell) 

Barry and Iris had their save the date card last spring in the last couple episodes but I saw the same kind of writing on the wall in Arrow just by the clear planning and maneuvering they did to reunite them as a couple as far back as 5-10 and since they were like only weeks away from their wedding before they broke up (and took pains in 5-19 and 5-20 to resolve those issues) I ended the season sure that they would be fast-tracked back to where they had been before the baby mama drama got in the way.   So it's not hard for me to believe both WA and Olicity were deliberate choices the showrunners were making with an eye on the crossover.  Weeks before they even finished writing the final episodes last season, MG had been on social media talking about him, Kreisberg and Berlanti (and others I'm sure) putting their heads together for what they wanted in the crossover and in the seasons.  

During the year there really doesn't seem to be a lot of input from the different showrunners but they all seem to come together to brainstorm together before they write up their separate seasons.  So I think they are much more aware of what each other are doing than one might think.  

 

On 9/28/2017 at 9:44 PM, Trini said:

I'm probably not explaining very well, sorry! We'll see how things play out in context in November, but in the scenario they've set up -where the couples will be compared directly- Barry/Iris are kind of the idealized* couple. If Barry & Iris' marriage influences Oliver & Felicity's decision to wed, that indirectly says that O want what B/I have. Normally we wouldn't even compare them at all in this way, but with both couples hitting the same milestone(!) at the same time(!!) in the same episode(!!!), it's implicitly there. They did a similar thing with Barry/Iris and Kara/Mon-El in the musical, and it wasn't an equal comparison then either; B/I came out looking better for different reasons. But all this depends on how the crossover is written.

I don't think there's necessarily envy involved, but "I want that too" could have definitely played a part.

*(that doesn't mean "perfect")

4

I guess I'll agree to disagree about Barry and Iris being an idealized couple.  Not saying Olicity is perfect either but I fall back to not seeing how Oliver or Felicity would look at Barry and Iris and see them that way.  I mean, Barry and Felicity started out commiserating together about the same problem, being in love with someone that didn't see them that way.  So I know Felicity knows better than to think the road to their being together was simple.  She went on a double date with Eddie and was there with Barry was clearly the fifth wheel and she's the one he came to when the weight of what he'd done with Flashpoint first overwhelmed him.  She knows him too well to idealize him or his relationship.  And Oliver...well he shot arrows at Barry.  He doesn't idealize either, lol.  

Wanting though to formalize the same level of commitment after they watched Barry and Iris do it does make sense to me, but only as a kind of push that says, well, why aren't we getting married as well?  So rather than looking at the other couple and comparing themselves, I see it as them seeing WA and it simply prompting Oliver and Felicity to examine their personal relationship with each other and realizing what they both want and that they have no meaningful reasons to wait.    

So from that standpoint, I don't believe I will find the Olicity wedding to come off lesser because no matter why it happens then, it happens because of what's between them and no one else.  

[RedVitC]

 

I just want to talk a little more about these dresses (picture taken from the article above). I didn't know this, but apparently Monique Lhuillier is pretty well known wedding dress designer (that's what people are saying anyway) so it's a pretty big deal for the show to use one of her dresses (if this is indeed for the show, and if they go with one of these dresses). Wedding dresses! I think we can assume that Iris will be wearing the wedding dress during the wedding ceremony that gets interrupted. Do you guys think Iris and Felicity will wear wedding dresses during the weddings in the last episode? 

On 9/28/2017 at 2:14 PM, tofutan said:

I wonder if Flash and Arrow will have similar "getting used to married life" storylines after the weddings. 

It's possible. There's certainly some story there for both couples, but I don't know if they'd spend multiple episodes on it or just one. Plus both couples have already lived together. With Andrew saying things will be coming against Barry and Iris, I wonder if the Thinker will try to do something, since he probably will be playing mind games in general.

Edited October 2, 2017 by RedVitC

[BkWurm1]

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Do you guys think Iris and Felicity will wear wedding dresses during the weddings in the last episode? 

MAYBE Iris, but no to Felicity.  Where would she get one? The only option would be Barry "borrowing" something in a speedy shopping spree and boy, there would just be too much wrong with that to really consider.

Iris could go either way though I tend to I think both will actually marry in something simple but lovely.  

[Trini]

53 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

Do you guys think Iris and Felicity will wear wedding dresses during the weddings in the last episode? 

Even though I really hope so, they probably won't if the second ceremony is as informal/impromptu as it seems it's going to be.

 

55 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

It's possible. There's certainly some story there for both couples, but I don't know if they'd spend multiple episodes on it or just one. Plus both couples have already lived together. With Andrew saying things will be coming against Barry and Iris, I wonder if the Thinker will try to do something, since he probably will be playing mind games in general.

With these writers, they might have a few scenes in a few episodes. I'm not expecting anything that will be an 'A'-plot.

[RedVitC]

32 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

MAYBE Iris, but no to Felicity.  Where would she get one? The only option would be Barry "borrowing" something in a speedy shopping spree and boy, there would just be too much wrong with that to really consider.

Iris could go either way though I tend to I think both will actually marry in something simple but lovely.  

I think I saw someone saying the waverider could possibly make a wedding dress for Felicity. It could work if she already has a dress in mind. Simple white dresses could also be nice. Some of it probably depends if everyone goes to the park already knowing that their will be two weddings, or if the second wedding is decided on the spot.  

That call sheet (if it's real) does specifically mention Felicity's nails are polished. Seems like nails might not be perfectly polished anymore after the events of the crossover, so she'd have to polish them or get them done. But I'm probably thinking too deep about it, it's most likely TV being TV; how everyone always has great hair etc

With Iris' dress, it might depend on what exactly happens when/after the ceremony is interrupted; If her dress is still in good condition after whatever fight breaks out between the heroes and the villains.

 

 

I don't know if this is actually what's happening or if it's what they think is happening based on the location. I'd like to think Iris would be part of this, but we don't know if she'll also be in the Supergirl episode.

[RedVitC]

Some filming BTS from the Supergirl part of the crossover from yesterday at Sugar Nail Bar. Looks like Iris is part of the episode after all!

Edited October 3, 2017 by RedVitC

[Trini]

From Ask Ausiello:

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How will The Flash’s Barry react to Iris being the team leader at S.T.A.R. Labs? — Malasha

Ausiello: “I think he loves” that Iris is now leading the charge, showrunner Todd Helbing says. But upon his return from the Speed Force, “it’s a new dynamic that he’s walking into, so there’s a big learning curve. It’s not just Cisco and Wells behind the command station, it’s the woman he loves. It’s going to take a bit of time for him to get used to that.”

Related to Iris in charge, I assume we'll be seeing Cisco more on the 'front lines'?

[BkWurm1]

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I think I saw someone saying the waverider could possibly make a wedding dress for Felicity. It could work if she already has a dress in mind. 

The Waverider would have the ability but the last spoiler I saw said it went Funeral then the LoT and Supergirl people going home and then the weddings so it sounds like the Waverider wouldn't be an option.  The spoiler came from someone that has been proved right in the past but not sure where they are getting their info.    

[Trini]

New stuff from the EW interview with Kreisberg:

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Grant is so funny this season. We’ve been having him do the funniest things, and Candice is really — making her the team leader, which unfortunately didn’t occur to us until this season, has really given her the agency on the show that she hasn’t always had. She’s always been smart, and funny, and proud, and brave, and eager, but she didn’t always have the authority that she has this season. It’s really nice to see her making decisions, and telling people where to go, and what to do, and Candice has really risen to the challenge, as we knew that she would.

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[Barry] is so happy to be back, and so happy to be The Flash, and so happy to be with [Iris]. There are some things that she experienced in the last six months, because from his perspective, he went into the Speed Force and then he was out, so for him no time has passed at all, but she had to spend six months living without him, and as she says, living with having to explain that he disappeared, it’s been a hard six months for her. So obviously she’s happy he’s back, but they do have some things to talk about.

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This season, we worked really, really hard to really understand what the Thinker wants, and why he’s doing it, and how he’s going about it. As you’re watching these first episodes you really see that there’s a chess match going on. In the beginning, our guys don’t even realize that they’re playing against him, but then you watch as they’re realizing that somebody is manipulating events and pulling the strings, watching them move and countermove in episodes as it’s all building to a big confrontation.

I'm really glad they're putting more thought and planning into this season's villain.
 

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Well, we just thought it would be a great episode. Gypsy and Jessica [Camacho], they’re so tough and so strong. We’re like, “Obviously she came from somebody strong,” and we just thought it would be a hilarious idea for Cisco, who’s managed to melt Gypsy’s heart, being unable to do the same with her father. We were in the room and we were like, “Who could we get?” and someone said Danny Trejo and we all started laughing like, “He’d be great, but of course Danny Trejo’s not going to do this.” But as I’ve discovered over these past few years, if you don’t ask, you don’t get it. So we reached out to him and his people, and it turned out he was a fan, and he was eager to do it, and he loved the character. I feel like we wrote him a great script. His character and his storyline with Cisco and Gypsy, it’s part of this slight redirection of the series this year — it’s just doing much more fun stories and much more just out and out hilarious things to match Barry’s newfound optimism and lightness.

[Trini]

Excited to see the Gypsy/Cisco/Breacher story, too. I think there's a lot to look forward to season!

[RedVitC]

From the article posted above:

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What themes are you’re exploring this season? Are you inspired by any certain comic book storyline, because a lot of people assumed you guys would be doing Rebirth?
Yeah, we’re not doing Rebirth based on that title. We were actually going to call it Rebirth, and then realized everybody was going to think we were doing Rebirth, which is why we changed it to “The Flash Reborn.” These first three years were really about growing up and now they’re all adults, which is both good and bad. They’ve all become pretty expert at what they do and they’re not as wide-eyed about everything that’s happening to them. For Barry and Iris, they are finally going to get married this season and then it’s going to be: Can they stay married with everything that’s coming up against them?

I think the quote about Iris and Barry and their marriage reads better in context. Before it kind of seemed like he was asked if they'd finally get married, and he answered in the vein of: yes, but what happens next? In context it actually seems much more of an extension to all the characters maturing and the problems being different as a result. So with maturing and in their case taking the next step/finally getting married they'll face a different set of problems than the ones they had before.

Edited October 4, 2017 by RedVitC

[Trini]

Photos for 4.02 are out, and everyone looks great! More of the new Flash suit!

Bro/Sis Crimefighting Unit!!

[tofutan]

Iris with a space gun looks great. 

[Lady Calypso]

I've kind of avoided spoilers for most of the break, but this past week has been too tempting. 

Iris getting more to do excites me. I just wish it was in the work department, but with this show, I have to take any development for Iris as an individual. She looks awesome with that space gun. I also dig Wally's hair in that photo.

[SimoneS]

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...and Candice is really — making her the team leader, which unfortunately didn’t occur to us until this season, has really given her the agency on the show that she hasn’t always had. She’s always been smart, and funny, and proud, and brave, and eager, but she didn’t always have the authority that she has this season. It’s really nice to see her making decisions, and telling people where to go, and what to do, and Candice has really risen to the challenge, as we knew that she would.

It took three seasons for it to occur to them to make Iris more than just the love interest? Oy vey! I cannot believe that they are actually saying this out loud. I suppose better late than never. However, I am waiting to see how it plays out on screen.

[RedVitC]

What he’s saying is it never occurred to them to make Iris team leader. And I can get that to be honest, because while I think it can be really cool it’s not necessarily something that you would immediately think of for Iris especially since she’s known as a journalist in the comics. So a more natural route would have been for them to expand that side more, but they don’t really want to do that anymore for some reason.  But then I don’t think Iris has been portrayed as just a love interest either even though there has been an emphasis on it. But I've probably written about that before.

 

I really like the new Flash suit. And Cisco's hair looks really great and fluffy!

Edited October 5, 2017 by RedVitC
Added some stuff

[SevenStars]

22 hours ago, SimoneS said:

It took three seasons for it to occur to them to make Iris more than just the love interest? Oy vey! I cannot believe that they are actually saying this out loud. I suppose better late than never. However, I am waiting to see how it plays out on screen.

 

Honestly, I think it was the great response to Earth2 Iris being part of the action as detective that made them realized how great it would be to put Iris in this position.  

[RedVitC]

Some screener reactions. Looks like both episode 1 and 2 were up:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RedVitC]

I wonder what is so ? to James Viscardi and I wonder if it's related to the unexpected tidbit Vlada Gelman is talking about.

[Trini]

33 minutes ago, RedVitC said:

I wonder what is so ? to James Viscardi and I wonder if it's related to the unexpected tidbit Vlada Gelman is talking about.

I'll bet it has to do with Caitlin/KF since they've been pretty mum about what's going on with her.

I think they're still going to be doing the Jekyll/Hyde thing with her, and I already hate it. I'm not sure if anything can really be done to redeem her botched arc last season. Plus, she's still technically wanted by CCPD, right? Watch that get completely swept under the rug. Again.

[Trini]

Description for 4.03:

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"Luck Be a Lady" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

DC COMICS' CHARACTER HAZARD COMES TO PLAY IN CENTRAL CITY - Barry (Grant Gustin) and the team are hit by a string of bad luck and realize it is the handiwork of a new meta, Becky (guest star Sugar-Lyn Beard) nicknamed Hazard, who has the ability to give others bad luck, while cashing in the benefits for herself. Meanwhile, Harry Wells (Tom Cavanagh) returns to Earth-1 to give Wally (Keiynan Lonsdale) a message from Jesse.

Armen V. Kevorkian directed the episode written by Sam Chalsen & Judalina Neira
(#403). Original airdate 10/24/2017.

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Yet another new writer (Chalsen).

Umm, that doesn't sound too good for Wally/Jesse. It sucks that they couldn't break up in person; and that they didn't bring back Violett Beane.

On the other hand, a luck-bending villain has the potential to be fun! This sounds like it could be a filler-ish episode, though.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Trini

[ruby24]

Glad of the shift in tone. I think they're really taking that seriously this time, the conscious effort to get back to a Season 1 feel. I hope they remember to maintain it in the second half, because that's where it'll probably become harder as the villain gets more threatening, but as long as they're aware of it they should be able to do it.

Really looking forward to episode 2! Everyone seems to love it, and given that the description makes the meta of the week sound like a subplot, it's got to be good because of the character stuff with the mains. Love that. That should be the case for the majority of the episodes, imo.

[DearEvette]

Sam Chalsen huh?  I remember that name. Wrote one of the worse episodes of Sleepy Hollow, imo. 

[Trini]

23 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Sam Chalsen huh?  I remember that name. Wrote one of the worse episodes of Sleepy Hollow, imo. 

Great. Didn't watch SH, but I haven't heard good things.

[ruby24]

Given how long KL has been gone since this episode, I'm guessing they're going to have Wally move to that earth to be with Jesse? 

Here's the thing- KL has missed at least four episodes in a row. It looks like he may have been back for a little bit of the crossover this week, but I'm guessing that's just the wedding scene or something. 

So, I'm thinking he's been changed to recurring status, and they're just waiting until after this episode airs to announce it. I think they don't really know what to do with two Flashes and never have. And now with Cisco being in the field more as Vibe, and Iris at the controls as team leader (which is kinda of taking over Cisco's position in a way), they really couldn't figure out room for him as a regular character.

I'm also thinking Caitlin must be some sort of Jekyll/Hyde situation. They've totally stonewalled on info for her character, but I cannot think of what else it could be, honestly. She looks like she might be a bit different, like a tougher Caitlin or something now. Does this mean she takes some sort of transformation potion to go back and forth, maybe? 

[RedVitC]

Some more news from Rotten Tomatoes. There are some more questions at the source, + some of the showrunners of the other shows talk about the crossover

CW's Superheroes Return! How Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, and Legends Will Save the Day in 2017

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How long until we find out about this year’s big bad?

Along with all the other shifts that we made this year, we’re pretty into just not necessarily showing all of our hands, but you know pretty quickly we’re not hiding as much as we have in the past.

 

 

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How is Iris as a leader in Barry’s absence, especially after being a victim all last season?

Last year from episode 9 on, she was in this defensive position and not only did that become problematic story-wise and how to keep up that tension for 13 episodes, but I think as a character, it was hard for Candice to play that. So we really wanted to do a nice shift. We wanted to do a lot of shifts on this show, but to make her more proactive this year and from what we’ve seen with Candice, she really shines like she never has before. It’s fantastic to see her in this authority position. So having her as the team leader and driving these missions, it’s been a lot of fun. She’s a phenomenal actress and I think what we’re giving her this year, she’s really taking it and redefining her role. It’s great.

 

 

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This season’s big bad is The Thinker. There’s mind control involved with this guy, yes?

Like always, we take the villains and put them through our Flash television blender. It’s not that we fully reimagine every single one of these guys or girls, but we certainly give them powers that we think fit better organically in our show. So we’ve done the same thing with DeVoe here. It’s not so much mind control as it is just he is the ultimate chess master. There’s some metahuman capabilities on top of his thinking capacity, but I can’t spoil it for you.

 

 

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At the end of last season Iris was ready to marry Barry and then Barry went and sacrificed himself again. But we’re still seeing a wedding, right?

When he comes back, he has to make up for that time that he was gone and emotionally they have to get back to where they were, so that’s going to take some time. There’s the path for these two that we’ve been building since season one. The relationship is going to eventually take the next step.

 

 

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At the end of last season, Caitlin was still figuring out how to embrace her meta powers and she declined the cure. What is her journey going to be at the beginning of this season? Is she still learning to embrace the Frost?

Well, much like everybody else on the team, she had her own journey that happened in those six months, so when we see her come back to the team, she has a lot of explaining to them to do to show why and how she is Caitlin Snow.

 

 

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How are Wally as The Flash and Cisco as Vibe fighting the metas in Barry’s absence?

Everybody has taken a step forward to collectively fill Barry’s shoes when he’s gone, so Vibe is out there in the field a lot more than he was previously. Over the last couple seasons, he’s been hesitant to go out in the field, but when you see him, he’s not so hesitant anymore. It’s also nice with Wally because he’s not just the only speedster. He’s the leader of the superhero contingent, I would say, with Team Flash.

 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Given how long KL has been gone since this episode, I'm guessing they're going to have Wally move to that earth to be with Jesse? 

Yeah, that's another option. They really haven't talked about Wally much after the premiere.

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Here's the thing- KL has missed at least four episodes in a row. It looks like he may have been back for a little bit of the crossover this week, but I'm guessing that's just the wedding scene or something. 

So, I'm thinking he's been changed to recurring status, and they're just waiting until after this episode airs to announce it. I think they don't really know what to do with two Flashes and never have. And now with Cisco being in the field more as Vibe, and Iris at the controls as team leader (which is kinda of taking over Cisco's position in a way), they really couldn't figure out room for him as a regular character.

I mean, he's not a central character, even though he's a regular; so I don't get how that news (if true) wouldn't just be announced. But the news about Tom Felton took a while to get out, too.

 

1 hour ago, RedVitC said:

Along with all the other shifts that we made this year, we’re pretty into just not necessarily showing all of our hands, but you know pretty quickly we’re not hiding as much as we have in the past.

They better not!

[ruby24]

Well, if the change isn't even mentioned until episode 3, I can see why they're waiting. If it happened in the premiere they probably would have addressed it already. I know they already announced Floriana Lima's change on Supergirl, but Kid Flash is a much more significant character here, so I'm thinking they don't want to deal with talking about his absence/departure until they have to.