Morgan: Man on a Mission

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I hope they have a real good reason for turning Morgan into 'Tyreese-light'.  Sparing the Wolves and then the "life is precious" mantra.

 

Leaving bad people alive is a horribly bad decision, Morgan.  Just stick with Rick (& his group/ASZ) for a couple weeks, and you'll get some first-hand demonstrations of that;

 

• just witnessed aftermath of leaving Pete alive for as long as he was and letting him do as he pleased beforehand
• (possibly) Glenn & Nicholas
• (possibly) Maggie-Sasha & FPP
• Wolves will be coming soon

[Nashville]

To a degree, I can understand and appreciate Morgan's current convictions. 

The only person for whose motivations and actions Morgan can truly be responsible is - Morgan.

This is a perfectly valid ethical framework - in the pre-ZA world, where most members of a society honor common rules of civil behavior and interaction as a trade-off for the freedom to live as an individual exercising free will (Aleister Crowley afficionados need not apply).

 

In the post-ZA world, however...?

 

I'm reminded of a book I read in my teens (so forgive me if I'm fuzzy on the details): Time and Again, by Jack Finney.  It's a time-travel story - and like most, it brushes against the "Kill Hitler" trope (if you could go back in time and kill Hitler before he rose to power, would/should you?).  It's not part of the direct plot line of the book - nobody's talking about *actually* going back in time to pre-WWII days and wasting Schickelgruber - but the main character asks several people the "kill Hitler" question in an effort to resolve a moral dilemma of his own.  The main character posed the question to multiple people from many walks of life - politicians, clergy, corporate bigwigs, WWII vets, etc.  Surprisingly, the answer which resonated most strongly with the main character - and myself - came from a teenage boy (18 or thereabouts).  The boy said he'd be afraid if he had the opportunity and didn't take it, he'd feel the weight and responsibility for the millions of lives Hitler took crushing down on his soul.

 

This is where my support for Morgan's ethical construct collapses.  Claiming personal responsibility begins and ends solely with one's own actions only works in a environment where the inherently anarchistic tendencies of the exercise of free will are curtailed by legally and morally acceptable societal convention.  No such curtailment exists in the post-ZA world, however - not beyond common agreement within small groups, anyway, which immediately becomes a suicide pact when challenged by another group which does not adhere to the same social contract.

 

This is the same conflict faced by CDB when challenged by Terminus Lite: even though the threat to CDB had been neutralized, how could Rick&Co allow the Termites to live - knowing what fate would befall anybody else who crossed the Termites' path?

 

Maybe Morgan has an answer for this.  If he does, then I for one would dearly love to hear it.  At present, however, i cannot think of a valid response which isn't a dressed-up version of "not my responsibility, not my problem" - which IMHO is a cop-out in the post-ZA world.

[kj4ever]

I'm thinking that maybe he is just a different sort of cray-cray now.  I mean anyone who thinks life is precious would know what a threat people like this are to said life.  I'm sorry but letting them live when you know what they will do "about every two weeks" makes you as bad as them when you have the opportunity to take them out.  And easily take them out.  They were unconscious FFS.

 

Saying that I still love Morgan, perhaps more, because I despise when people are written like they are super human with no faults.  I also wouldn't ever compare him to Tyreese, who was a total waste of my TV time.

 

As far as killing Walkers, I'd imagine someone with the mindset of Morgan would see it more as mercy then killing.  I never understood Tyreese being a big ass baby about not wanting to kill them.  They aren't people anymore, and the majority of those people would not like for their bodies to be walking around killing people.  I would think most people's last wishes would be to make sure they DON'T come back as that.

[Nashville]

Don't get me wrong; I still like Morgan, and you have to admire someone who is still trying to hang on to a set of ethics two years into a zombie apocalypse. :)

All it means is, Morgan is an imperfect individual, same as the rest of us - which means opportunities exist for change and (hopefully) growth.

[ghoulina]

I'm thinking that maybe he is just a different sort of cray-cray now.  I mean anyone who thinks life is precious would know what a threat people like this are to said life.  I'm sorry but letting them live when you know what they will do "about every two weeks" makes you as bad as them when you have the opportunity to take them out.  And easily take them out.  They were unconscious FFS.

 

I am with you on this. When Lennie James said on TD that Morgan wasn't "cray cray" anymore, I thought - "No, he's just a different kind of cray cray". 

 

But like you all, I still love him! Maybe he needs a Michonne pistol whip as well?

[Nashville]

Maybe he needs a Michonne pistol whip as well?

 

Michonne can whip me with anything she wants.  I'm easy.

[raven]

Nashville, I've never read that book (heard about it, should check it out) but that exact same scenario is part of Stephen King's The Dead Zone, right down to the teenage boy's response about all the dead figuratively coming back to haunt him.  Our protagonist, Johnny Smith, was been in a coma for a few years and after waking up realizes through a series of harrowing experiences that he can tell someone's future by touching them.   He shakes hands with a politician and realizes the politician will be responsible for a world war; I won't spoil why but John has to decide whether or not to assassinate him, so he asks the "kill Hitler" question of several people.

 

On topic, as for Morgan, I think everyone's who survived this far into the ZA has to be a little cray-cray.  The show has already tried to address the question of killing to prevent more killings, I love Morgan but I don't know if there's a new way to address this question that the show hasn't done yet.  I hope Morgan isn't going to be used as a "magical Negro" trope to pull Rick out of his mental hole or whatever.  I think the writers are too smart and Lennie James wouldn't go for that characterization.  He did mention on TD that we'd find out what Morgan has been up to between "Clear" and now and that I'd like to see.

[Nashville]

Nashville, I've never read that book (heard about it, should check it out) but that exact same scenario is part of Stephen King's The Dead Zone, right down to the teenage boy's response about all the dead figuratively coming back to haunt him. 

 

Yep, read that one too - and you're right, the plot lines are about identical.  In fact, I may have been blurring between the two somewhat; too many books over too many years, I reckon.  :)   Like I said, it's a pretty standard sci-fi/time travel trope.  The question is still valid, however; at what point does a strict definition of personal responsibility impinge negatively upon social responsibility?

[mandolin]

See also: King's 11/22/63

[raven]

 

The question is still valid, however; at what point does a strict definition of personal responsibility impinge negatively upon social responsibility?

It was addressed a bit on Lost when Sayid tried to kill Ben Linus as a child, which IIRC caused an uproar because of the popularity of Ben; which, though Michael Emerson was good in the role,  Ben basically killed a whole town of people due to Daddy issues.  Could have been because it was a child Ben as opposed to an adult Ben. 

 

I'd like to know what Morgan's been through - last we knew, he'd only been threatened by zombies (and Rick).  How did he get to his zen place?  Did he consider the fake wolves all bark and no bite because their weapon wasn't loaded and the "surprise" attack was clumsy?  What did he think about the zombie trap?  Still lots of unanswered questions that I hope we get into.

[RedheadZombie]

It's been my fear that Morgan is going to be a bad guy, or adversarial to Rick. Watching the promotional snippets they played during Fear the Walking Dead, I'm less worried. I can't elaborate because I never know how to get the tools (such as spoiler tab) to work on my iPhone.

[editorgrrl]

I never know how to get the tools (such as spoiler tab) to work on my iPhone.

Type

after the desired text, but without a space after the "r." You can do the same with "quote," the letter "i"(for italic), or the letter "b" (for bold).

http://tvline.com/2015/10/07/the-walking-dead-season-6-morgan-flashback-episode/

Gimple confirms that an upcoming hour will flash back to show viewers how Morgan transformed from the “disturbed, homicidal, traumatized” individual he was in Season 3’s “Clear” to the person in the Season 5 finale “who said that he believes all life is precious.” Acknowledges the EP: “Something happened in the middle of all of that. And we really do need to show [it to] you.”

Edited October 7, 2015 by editorgrrl

[RedheadZombie]

Type

after the desired text, but without a space after the "r." You can do the same with "quote," the letter "i"(for italic), or the letter "b" (for bold).

http://tvline.com/2015/10/07/the-walking-dead-season-6-morgan-flashback-episode/

Thank you. What I wanted to say is this:

LJ was asked if Morgan was going to be the new Hershel. Unless the question was a deliberate misdirect, I'm reassured Morgan won't be the villain.

[JBody]

I posted this in another thread but I want to put this here as a placeholder for the analysis after the Morgan-centric episode next week.

 

A lot of people dislike Morgan now.  It's what Show loves to do: troll the audience by upending expectations -- since season one everyone was clamoring for more Morgan, he was a fan favourite, blahblahblah and now they're like, you wanted it, you got it, enjoy! -- only it's not the Morgan we knew, or ever wanted.  Hahaha Show.

 

I just want to say that I really hope his episode is kickass and not like the Governor-moping-around double bill of season four.

[RedheadZombie]

I live in the Atlanta area, and Lennie James' accent is spot on.  Of the four Brits on the show, I think his accent is the best, followed by David Morrisey.  AL does a decent job, but LC struggles the most.

[AngelaHunter]

since season one everyone was clamoring for more Morgan,

 

Everyone except me.

[walnutqueen]

Everyone except me.

 

Moi aussi.

[Nashville]

 

since season one everyone was clamoring for more Morgan,

Everyone except me.

And me. Given the buildup TPTB were giving "Morgan's March", I was pretty certain whatever was delivered would have problems living up to the hype - and they didn't disappoint. 

 

ETA: Or rather, they did - but it was an expected disappointment.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Nashville

[rab01]

Morgan is like the back-up quarterback on a mediocre football team. He's everybody's favorite player until he starts.

 

Morgan was never going to be able to go up from his moment last season when he took out two wolves, knocked them unconscious and then honked the car horn to draw walkers to them.  From the moment it was revealed on TD that he was actually checking to see if the coast was clear for them to survive, his character has been going downhill. That said, I still like him and I like him tons more than comic book Morgan. I'd much rather see him change, grow and survive than get killed off but, at this rate, I don't see how he survives into next season.

[diebartdie]

I think Morgan is still very much insane and to be 100% honest, Im not entirely certain the Cheesemaker was really a person or just an extended hallucination. Morgan had gotten so feral, so deep in the weeds, he was just killing people to be killing them. Psychosis, unchecked, unbound. In his destroyed mind, there was NO difference between a living walker and a dead walker, "all come back". For whatever reason, he either found the mystical white man who first enslaved him, then freed his body then freed his mind or he just hallucinated the entire absurd scenario. Either way, upon the conclusion of the dream/hallucination/extended "therapy session", Morgan emerged with a mind finally "clear" and with that, he remembered that he, in fact, is not a savage serial killer. He woke up, he realized the extent of his insanity and decided to never tto any of that again.

 

Something similar happened to my uncle. From about 1971 until about 3 years ago, my uncle suffered terrible, extreme delusions/hallucinations. The things he thought were real or were happening were just incomprehensible to anyone outside his mind. Then, he finally got the correct medication and all that crazy shit just stopped. He understands that he was very sick, he understands his actions were hard for everyone to take but he does not remember the delusions or the hallucinations. We dont talk about it very much because he gets so embarrassed over it. To him, none of that really happened, to him it's like vaguely remembering a bad dream, no harm, no foul. I think Morgan is like that, he snapped out of his fugue and remembered himself, remembered being a loving man, a kind man, a man who would protect those he loved (until that very love broke his mind). He's so badly damaged and so badly in need of medication (like so many others! Rick for sure could do with some meds as could Carol and Michonne) that once his mind settled on the OTHER extreme (he went from KILL 'EM ALL to peace and love brother smoke a bowl), he MUST cling to that extreme as vehemently as he previously clung to violence. With time, love, consistent safely I do believe Morgan will continue to regain his sanity and eventually he too will understand that in the ZA, NOT all lives are precious. Cannibals, rapists, savage murderous wolves all need to be put down as they all represent ultimate destruction of humanity.

[ghoulina]

I tend to agree with some of that. I said this in the episode thread, but I don't necessarily believe Morgan is 100% invested in this "All Life is Precious" mantra, not really deep down. But I think it's the only thing that is keeping him on the right side of sane. I think HE believes that if he kills someone again, he's going to slide back into the state he was in previously. So he's clinging to it for dear life. 

[RedheadZombie]

I tend to agree with some of that. I said this in the episode thread, but I don't necessarily believe Morgan is 100% invested in this "All Life is Precious" mantra, not really deep down. But I think it's the only thing that is keeping him on the right side of sane. I think HE believes that if he kills someone again, he's going to slide back into the state he was in previously. So he's clinging to it for dear life.

I agree with you and I think we saw a flash of that potential violence when he threw Carol down. I think Morgan's going to course correct and I think LJ can sell it. The problem is the writers are sabotaging the character in the mean time.

[Spartan Girl]

Boy, I bet the writers are laughing their asses off at us now. All those seasons of waiting and hoping for Morgan to meet up with Rick and the gang...only to have him turn into Andrea.

[JBody]

Yep it's hilarious. You want Morgan you got him --let's have him physically knock out Carol just so you can hate him even more. My understanding is Carol is a favourite character in the writer's room so it goes without saying they tried to make him as reprehensible as possible. And if you're in the minority and don't like Carol, you'll still hate him for behaving as if the Wolf's life is more precious than anyone else's. Ho hum.

[diebartdie]

I dont think Morgan was trying to kill Carol at all, I think he just got all caught up in the fight and did what he had to do to get her off him. Still, why the fuck would he defend that piece of shit wolf I do not know.

[ghoulina]

I don't hate Morgan for the fight (even though Carol is my current favorite) because I found the whole thing to be so fucking ridiculous and unbelievable. I hate the writers. 

[nodorothyparker]

I don't hate him either despite generally loving Carol because it just made no damn sense for either character.  I can't tell at this point whether the show/writing actively hates Morgan or is just so damn lazy about trying to fill in plot points that nobody cares.

 

It's a shame because Lennie James and Melissa McBride have some really fascinating chemistry and I love watching them play off of each other.  This could have been a really compelling story about two horribly damaged characters pulling each other back from extreme and unsustainable ends of a spectrum.

[mandolin]

This is random, and about an old episode, but I'm watching s6e01 again, when the zombies get out of the quarry, and when Morgan asks Michonne if she ate a protein bar of his, his voice is so shaky, and then she tells him "no." He seems so vulnerable and unsure of himself then. Next time he does something I hate, like not kill a Wolf, I'll go back and watch this episode. 

[CletusMusashi]

I think Morgan is dead. Carol probably shot and killed him, months ago.

While making casserole.

Edited February 24, 2016 by CletusMusashi

[Nashville]

I think Morgan is dead. Carol probably shot and killed him, months ago.

While making casserole.

Who -er- what do you think was in the casserole?

[mandolin]

Who -er- what do you think was in the casserole?

The secret's in the sauce.

[Nashville]

The secret's in the sauce.

 

...or so I'm told.  ;)

[Spartan Girl]

When Morgan was crediting saving the Wolf's life to saving Denise, I wanted to throttle him.  Denise WOULD HAVE STILL BEEN SAFE if Morgan hadn't convinced her to help heal the Wolf.  In fact, I'm still pretty sure the only reason why the Wolf didn't kill Denise was because there were Walkers around and he needed some help.  If Denise wasn't with the Wolf, she would have still been in the infirmary and still been able to save Carl's life regardless of whatever happened to the Wolf.

 

So Morgan's "it all goes around" justification was complete and total horseshit.

[RedheadZombie]

Quote from Relationship thread:

 

I think part of the problem with Morgan as a character, at least in terms of him being disliked, is that he appeared to many to be floating above the struggles and worries of the other Alexandrians, buoyed by his confidence in his own moral superiority and untrammeled by worldly things such as love (except insofar as he felt a vague concern for his fellow man). He could preach pacifism and restraint because he didn't care enough about the Alexandrians to be overly invested in whether they lived or died, and since he's perfectly fine with surviving on his own if push comes to shove; he seemed to care more about the Alexandrians' souls than about their lives.

 

Now, I once saw him that way myself, but I realized as the season progressed that that was unfair: in my estimation, Morgan doesn't preach from a position of moral superiority, but rather from the position of one who has hardwon firsthand knowledge of the terrible places Rick's approach can lead and who genuinely wants to spare other people the pain he himself suffered. As he admitted, he's not right: there's no right, there's only the "wrong that doesn't drag you down."

 

I think Morgan will be rehabilitated somewhat now that he has come down from his lofty perch and has realized that he does love someone enough to kill to protect them, that he does have strong personal feelings about at least one member of the community, and that those feelings are sufficient to cause him to violate his "All life is precious" creed. So now that he's down in the muck with everyone else willing to kill to protect their loved ones, maybe he'll be able to relate better to Carol's dilemma and to the other members of Team Rick (assuming he winds up back in Alexandria). I also expect that Rick, newly traumatized by Negan and the horrible consequences of his triggerhappy actions with the Saviours, might be a little more understanding of Morgan's worldview.

 

I have to admit that I did roll my eyes when Tobin meekly let Rick and Morgan take off after Carol without once suggesting that he would like to come too. He just stood there when Morgan announced he was going after her and didn't protest Rick's order that no one else leave. Seriously, dude? He was probably still smarting from Carol breaking up with him, but really. It was pretty telling as to Morgan's feelings for Carol that Morgan immediately decided to go after her while her ex-boyfriend just stood there.

 

Andrew Lincoln said something in commenting on 6x15 that Rick realizes that he doesn't know Carol all that well. There's something kind of possessive in the way that Rick expresses annoyance at Morgan claiming to know what Carol's thinking ("Saviours' compound (...) that was west. Seems like she went east."/"You don't even know Carol") and Morgan searching for Carol in the first place ("Why are you doing this?"). There's also something a little possessive in the way that Rick brags about how awesome Carol is and how proud he is of her. (Lennie James' line reading of "How's that?" was awesome.) The implication from the writers is that Rick doesn't know Carol but Morgan does: Morgan gets Carol in a way that Rick, who's known Carol for much, much longer, can't. (We also learn in 6x15 that Morgan seems to have been asking around to figure out what Carol's deal is.)

 

Morgan is also the only person these days who is willing to tell Carol "No." In fact, the whole Carol/Morgan arc can be reduced to one long series of Morgan calling bullshit on every single fucking thing Carol says or does:

 

Carol: I'm just a sweet, harmless homemaker.

Morgan: No, you're not.

Carol: We have to kill people.

Morgan: No, we don't.

Carol: I'm totally fine with killing.

Morgan: No, you're not.

Carol: I'm going to kill the Wolf.

Morgan: No, you're not.

Carol: Fine, then I'll kill you.

Morgan: No, you won't.

Carol: I should have killed you.

Morgan: You can't.

Carol: We can forget about the Wolf thing and just move past it without telling anyone.

Morgan: No, we can't.

Carol: I told you not to come after me.

Morgan: Not happening, sorry.

Carol: I can't go back to Alexandria.

Morgan: Bullshit.

Carol: Please just let me go!

Morgan: No.

 

Carol's emotional crisis this season appears to have been precipitated at least in part by Morgan blowing holes in the lies Carol tells herself and everyone else: that she can live with the cost of killing, that no one can see through her happy homemaker disguise, that it's fine to play judge, jury and executioner, that there is no alternative to living the way she's been living other than self-imposed exile, that she can't stay in Alexandria because she's a danger due to her inability to kill, and finally, the most dangerous lie, that Carol's life is worthless and she deserves to die for the suffering she's inflicted on others. It's not explicit in 6x15, but I think Morgan feeling guilty about having contributed to Carol's breakdown might be motivating him to help search for her.

 

I've stated before that I love Morgan, yet understand why people have problems with him.  But I don't, not really.  At least I don't understand the absolute hatred they have for him.  I know as a whole, the audience (or at least the population that posts) dislikes the pacifists, or those who have a harder time killing.  The killers are the favorites, and I imagine it's because the show draws a certain number of people who care most about the zombies and violence.  It's also possibly because the writers have always written the more passive characters poorly.  It broke my heart a little to read the vitriol aimed at Tyreese.

 

Morgan saved Rick when he was still weak and stupid about the ZA.  Without Morgan, Rick may have been dead before he reached Atlanta.  And as happy as Rick is to kill first, ask questions later, their current predicament is a direct result of Rick's decision making.  Sure there would probably have been a show down one day, but it wouldn't have been in the midst of Maggie's health crisis, and it would have been after they had time to gather information and plan.  Rick is also directly responsible for T-Dog's and Lori's deaths.  And unlike many who thought the problem was Rick not killing that prisoner, I think it was the way Rick locked the guy out and mocked - you better run.  When that prisoner showed up again, he was pretty crazy.  He was crazy due to how Rick handled him.  And while the governor is responsible for killing Hershel, it was Rick's desperate negotiation that set him off.  But the audience, and I, have understood Rick was doing what he thought best, and forgiven him.

 

I've also noticed that when anyone points out Rick's scorched earth policy, his defenders point out - but they don't know what Rick's been through.  He's experienced the governor, claimers, terminus, etc.  That's made him this way.  Well, Morgan's experiences formed him, too.  And presumably, that should be an equal defense for Morgan and his decision making.

 

And to this quote in particular (which I realize the OP stated she didn't believe):  "He could preach pacifism and restraint because he didn't care enough about the Alexandrians to be overly invested in whether they lived or died, and since he's perfectly fine with surviving on his own if push comes to shove; he seemed to care more about the Alexandrians' souls than about their lives."  I agree that many felt/feel this way.  Yet it's not true.  Didn't Morgan wade into a huge herd to save Aaron and precious fan favorite Daryl?  Morgan didn't even know them, yet he risked his life to save them.

 

I agree that it's Morgan who's really helped bring Carol to this crisis of consciousness, but I think she was broken at the Grove.  Tyreese wanted it to be kept secret because he didn't want to talk about it, and he didn't want people judging Carol.  So even if Carol wanted to talk about it, she was hampered by Tyreese's opinion.  So many of Morgan's experiences mirror Carol's.  From losing their child due to their inability to protect them, to being unable to cope with their own violence.  Morgan has pushed through to the other side, and he did it very similarly to Carol.  Maybe Morgan is Carol's goat man, and will help her reach some peace. 

 

And I think it's time to set up a council again.  They need people who can challenge Rick, or offer viable options.  In the prison they had calmer heads like Hershel on the council.  Rick can be a hot head, and he often charges in without proper planning.  Daryl is a pure follower, and a Rick sycophant.   Michonne has questioned Rick, but never truly challenged him or changed any of his plans.  Maggie seems to be getting set up to be the government leader.  If Glenn lives, I think he would be great for a council.  I think there's room for Morgan as well.

 

ETA:  Forgot to add Denise.  Yes Morgan exposed Denise to the wolf.   But exposed her to a restrained wolf.  Denise is an adult, and could have refused and walked away.  She chose to treat the man.  Then when Carol and Morgan were unconscious, Denise sat there like a moron and watched the wolf set himself free.  I've no doubt that she would have watched him stab Carol and Morgan.  At some point, Denise has to be accountable for that stupidity.  Of course she learned nothing, and was killed while choosing to go into inspirational sermon mode out in an unsecured area.  So she's dead, now.  And it wasn't Morgan's fault.  It wasn't Daryl's or Rosita's, either.

Edited April 6, 2016 by RedheadZombie