S02.E06: Raw Nerves

[JenE4]

For those who watched their other shows, was Tori always this frantic and nitpicky? I mean, I suppose she would have kept it under wraps for their true love stori. But, dear lord, I'm exhausted just listening to her for one hour--I couldn't imagine being married to this harpy shrew! It's absolutely insane that at the same time she wants Dean to be a stay at home Dad--and yet she's mad that he doesn't work enough and also doesn't trust him to take care of the kids for an hour. And yet this season and the first season of True Tori, we've seen Dean taking great care of the kids--making them MANY meals, getting the kids ready for school, having adorable tea parties, etc. And Tori--who "never has me time"--always comes waltzing in from somewhere WITHOUT the kids, to find Dean cleaning the kitchen or something with the kids sound asleep in bed. Meanwhile, Tori is frantic every time we see her taking care of the kids alone--can't figure out how to cook something, bringing the kids in her bed because she doesn't know how to get them to sleep in their beds. We've only seen her dragging the kids around and talking (crying, screaming) at other adults with them just milling about. I can't recall a single scene of her taking care of them or playing with them the way Dean does. I mean, I get the whole part that most of the responsibilities that you have to think about typically fall on moms. Mom is the one who makes the doctors appointments and remembers that the kids need to bring whatever to school, etc. I think that's just one of the gender roles that hasn't completely changed even when mom works as many hours as dad. Granted, of course there are exceptions, but as a working mom who works with other working moms, I get it. It's exhausting working all day and then cooking dinner and running the kids around to X Y and Z. However, that's not their life. The both seem to just sit around all day. Ok, Dean has an 8-day job coming up...which is 8 more days than Tori since her show was promptly canceled. And yet, they're arguing about whether the sitter or the nanny picked up the kids. What the--? You have a sitter AND a nanny when neither one of you are working?! I mean, it would be for the best if they WERE with a nanny and not exposed to this drama. But the kids are always there in the middle of this HEARING EVERYTHING--just like poor Jess and Wolf. Eek. Talk about an awkward dinner party!

[blueridgerobin]

I recorded the show but I haven't watched yet; I came here to get an idea of what I can expect.

 

But on the story page--"House of Buggin'"---WTF is wrong with Tori's eyelids?  They look all puckered and shriveled.

[CodenameV]

For those who watched their other shows, was Tori always this frantic and nitpicky? 

 

She always used to talk about having to oversee everything because she loves "the little details", but she never seemed to completely trust anyone with her "vision." However this was more apparent the later HSH went on than in the beginning. 

 

When it came to the kids, he talked about how Dean was always the one who disciplined to the kids while she couldn't because they were her little babies. But she did seem to be more involved when it was just Liam and Stella. I think she had too many kids and regrets it. Also with the way she focuses more on Hattie and Finn, I think she has a "I only want babies" and not kids who can talk/fight back with her. 

 

She wasn't nearly as critical of Dean either until it came to about season 5 of HSH. She would mention he had anger issues and that he still raced bikes because his family wasn't his priority. 

[GaT]

I recorded the show but I haven't watched yet; I came here to get an idea of what I can expect.

 

But on the story page--"House of Buggin'"---WTF is wrong with Tori's eyelids?  They look all puckered and shriveled.

I noticed it when it happened. She's squeezing her eyes really tight because the praying mantis is crawling on her face. The reason they look shriveled is because that's what happens to women who don't have any fat on their body, there's nothing to keep her eyelids plump, it's just skin.

 

And this reminds me of what I was thinking when I watched that scene. Tori stayed remarkably calm when that bug was crawling up her & onto her face & hair. I would have been a raving lunatic. So she stays calm when giant bugs crawl on her face, but freaks out when Dean microwaves a potato better than her. OK, got it.

[blueridgerobin]

I noticed it when it happened. She's squeezing her eyes really tight because the praying mantis is crawling on her face. The reason they look shriveled is because that's what happens to women who don't have any fat on their body, there's nothing to keep her eyelids plump, it's just skin.

 

And this reminds me of what I was thinking when I watched that scene. Tori stayed remarkably calm when that bug was crawling up her & onto her face & hair. I would have been a raving lunatic. So she stays calm when giant bugs crawl on her face, but freaks out when Dean microwaves a potato better than her. OK, got it.

  Which goes to show just how much of a nutcase she is, really.

 

It makes sense that the lack of fat on her body would play into it; thanks.  Now that I think of it, sun damage might have something to do with it as well.  i have a raging insect phobia, and usually I can hardly bear to even look at a picture of something as horrible as the thing on her face.  But I hardly noticed the bug compared to those eyelids. 

[Lucygirl2]

I am all about your kids being your top priority, their needs should come before your wants...

That being said I don't think you should have to give everything up once you become a parent. I have never understood Tori's need to micromanage Dean's every move. He wanted to scuba dive, she put an end to that. Motorcycle racing, nope, she put an end to that as well. This hockey thing with the other dads sounds like a fun way to blow off some steam. Isn't Tori allowed to hang with the moms? Parents need a break from the kids so they can clear their heads & recharge their batteries. Most of us can't afford to take a 2 week hospital-cation when we decide we need a break from all our responsibilities.

Wolf & Jess must really want to be on camera desperately, because there is no way I would want to be at my "friends" house just to not only listen to them fight but being dragged into it... If Tori even looked at me with that pathetic "what did I say?" look on her face, I'd want to punch her!

I just know when she started bitching about how much better of a parent she was than Dean & I started screaming at my TV that she is hardly mother of the fucken year material, I needed to pause it & take a deep breath lol

[4leafclover]

While I was watching Tori in her doctor's office, it occurred to me that maybe the old implants could be responsible for her many, many physical maladies.   I've read articles about women who have developed lupus and other autoimmune-type diseases from their implants.  Even so, I really believe that Tori, in a weird say, enjoys her compromised state of health because it validates her "poor me" attitude.  

 

I've had friends like Tori, and believe me, they are exhausting to the point of hiding when they knock on your door.  They suck every inch of patience, understanding, compassion and energy from you and when you have nothing more to offer, they hop to the next unsuspecting sap to start the whole process over again.  I can't imagine the fortitude Mehran must have to have been Tori's friend for all these years!

[missy jo]

I was scratching my head when "T" was going on and on about what an over protective, hands on , involved parent she is. I don't recall seeing any footage that showcased her parenting in a positive light.

 

It seems like I've seen her physically push the kids out of her way before (not in a mean way, just dismissive) so that she can whine and mewl at Dean, like maybe during the Great Hot Potato Debate 2014?

 

I mentioned on another episode thread that she seems like the kind of person who's into babies, and not so much children once they reach the toddler stage and older. Not to mention that weird fetish of always needing to be pregnant.

[gigi1701]

Not to mention that weird fetish of always needing to be pregnant.

It is not a fetish, but the ultimate way to be noticed, babied and exulted. Tori is toxic. period. I pity those kids.

 

How do I know? Too many things remind me of my own mother with very similar dysfunctions. I survived only after quite a bit of therapy. I also had a few healthy adult role models.  So far Dean is much better for them than Tori .

 

I think that he really does deserve better, hope he can leave and just be on his own for a while and for their sakes, have the kids with him.

[jrlr]

While I was watching Tori in her doctor's office, it occurred to me that maybe the old implants could be responsible for her many, many physical maladies.   I've read articles about women who have developed lupus and other autoimmune-type diseases from their implants.  Even so, I really believe that Tori, in a weird say, enjoys her compromised state of health because it validates her "poor me" attitude.  

 

I've had friends like Tori, and believe me, they are exhausting to the point of hiding when they knock on your door.  They suck every inch of patience, understanding, compassion and energy from you and when you have nothing more to offer, they hop to the next unsuspecting sap to start the whole process over again.  I can't imagine the fortitude Mehran must have to have been Tori's friend for all these years!

Very interesting observation about the implants and the possibility of a compromised autoimmune system - I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is the case.  As for having had friends like Tori, when I was younger I did, too. They are simply awful, and until you realize what exactly is going on, you DO get sucked in - they are emotional vampires.  I already thought that Tori was a narcissist - and given her background, it's no surprise.  But after watching this season, I've amended my unprofessional diagnosis to malignant narcissist.  

[LostControl]

Having read all Tori's books, I'm baffled by her turn around now saying she's scared to leave Dean alone with the kids. In Mommywood she talked about how "hands on" Dean always was, and how he never gave her a chance to do things. This man was looking after 3 kids for MONTHS when you were flat on your back in hospital with Finn.

Dean might not be perfect, but he is completely capable of looking after the kids. I'm not a huge fan of Dean, but I would let him watch my kids. He knows how to cook, how to help kids get dressed (as he was shown helping Hattie find matching shoes on a recent show), etc.. In fact, Tori would be less trustworthy with young kids. Look what happened last season when she was scrapbooking on the bed - she turns into a sobbing mess who can't control herself.

Of all the kids, Jack is the luckiest - he was raised by a sane mature adult who made sure he had love, security, and rules. Actually - Lola is the luckiest. She dodged having to visit Tori and Dean on a regular basis.

[TheRealT]

I agree that I'd rather have Dean looking after my kids than Tori. Tori blew up her own argument that Dean doesn't take proper care of the kids when he asked her for an example and the best that she could come up with (after the "I don't want to say it on camera" ploy) was that he let the nanny pick the kids up from school. That and Pumpkingate were her best arguments for not being able to trust Dean with the kids (unless she's in the hospital for weeks/months). Also, Tori herself said that the kids weren't fazed when she was in the hospital for 2 weeks. There's no way that children that young carry on as usual when their primary caretaker is gone for weeks. Actually, I'm sure that they were affected by her absence, but it's telling that Tori is so out of touch with her children that she wouldn't notice. It wouldn't surprise me if Tori's comments were based on something like the kids not being enthusiastic enough in welcoming her home (which led to her having a sobbing meltdown and picking a fight with Dean while further ignoring the kids, who were taken into another room by the nannies).

 

It's really hard to understand how Tori thinks it will be positive for her kids for her to put it out there on TV/the Internet/etc. that their dad doesn't prioritize them in his life and doesn't care enough to put forth the necessary effort to take care of them. She's not accusing Dean of sucking as a parent because he's inept; she's suggesting that he just doesn't care enough to watch them vigilantly or to want to take care of them. That's really fucked up for the kids as well as Dean. I'm sure that Tori makes comments in that vein to the kids all the time; she can't turn off the victim complex and she does not have a healthy concept of boundaries (as evidenced by this show). When the kids are older and she and Dean are divorced she'll be shrieking at them about how they are ungrateful brats who don't appreciate all the sacrifices she's made for them and who don't understand what a piece of shit their father is. I can see it now; it's the logical extension of many scenes we've seen on this show. Tori clearly wants the kids to love her more than Dean and for the world to think that she is an amazing mom who deserves more credit for the adorable brood than Dean does. It's a very weird and unhealthy dynamic.

 

And the thing is, despite her trying so hard to come off as an awesome mom, Tori never seems particularly loving or comfortable with her kids. I believe that she loves them, but she is way too self-involved to be nurturing and she's incredibly spoiled and demanding, always putting her own needs first. Those traits are antithetical to being a good parent or caregiver. She always seems stressed out by the kids, not adoring or engaged. I think she likes being pregnant because of the attention and control it gives her and she likes babies because they also draw a lot of attention to her and their needs are relatively simple (less competition for Tori's needs to take center stage). Especially doing it the way she did, with a live-in baby nurse and a hands-on dad who doesn't have to work outside the home, parenting an infant was probably fun and easy. Then the kids get older and start running around, having tantrums, arguing with Mommy, etc., etc. and it just adds to Tori's already-overwhelming stress.

[chlban]

She always used to talk about having to oversee everything because she loves "the little details", but she never seemed to completely trust anyone with her "vision." However this was more apparent the later HSH went on than in the beginning. 

 

When it came to the kids, he talked about how Dean was always the one who disciplined to the kids while she couldn't because they were her little babies. But she did seem to be more involved when it was just Liam and Stella. I think she had too many kids and regrets it. Also with the way she focuses more on Hattie and Finn, I think she has a "I only want babies" and not kids who can talk/fight back with her. 

 

She wasn't nearly as critical of Dean either until it came to about season 5 of HSH. She would mention he had anger issues and that he still raced bikes because his family wasn't his priority. 

He has "anger issues" and he is living with that self absorbled shrew for how many years now? Not really buying that.  I don't like Dean, he is a complete loser, but I am not sure anyonew deserves life with Tori. She is just horrible.  

 

I am reminded of my Eddie/LeeAnn/Brandi experience. I have hated LeeAnn Rimes since she sued her dad. But then I started watching Brandi on RHOBH and she was such a horrid, slutty, bitch that I started to gain empathy for Eddie and LeAnn. Then Eddie and LeeAnn got their own reality show and I went back to full on hate of LeeAnn. My hate for Eddie remained pretty constant. 

 

Really people, reality shows are not your friend. 

 

I have a suggestion for Tori's next business venture. How about "Free Dean" T-shrts?  He needs to run and run fast.

 

[Darknight]

The problem I have with Tori is the fact she thinks she's a victim. She cheated as well. She accepted the fact that a man whose married with children left his wife for her. That should tell u something. Dean isn't innocent neither but Tori is just a bitch

[psychoticstate]

This show is hardly a ringing endorsement for therapist Wexler.  Tori and Dean's relationship is getting worse, not better.  No matter what truths are discovered and understood, the relationship just becomes more embattled.  They're both very problem-centered, and seem to be in a continual state of heightened emotion.  It seems to me that Dean is becoming bewildered with the endless talk and the hyper-focus on every detail of their waking hours.  I think he's ready to implement what they've learned, and he's confused as to when the therapeutic urgency is going to subside.  Tori, however, seems to be on alert for yet one more thing to dwell on.  My guess is that the pain of the infidelity still hasn't lessened and she feels more comfortable keeping the relationship adversarial until it does.  It may feel too scary to let go of the Dean who is in this repentant phase.  (This could be unintentional on her part.)  I don't think continual rehash is going to help her overcome this stage of the pain.  She has expressed her feelings and described the pain (rightfully so), and he seems to finally understand everything, and he seems truly remorseful.  If she wants to stay with him, she has to try to forgive him now and then stop continually thinking and talking about the subject, or she'll never feel better.  The therapist will just keep them endlessly in this talking/feeling stage, and that's not emotionally healthy for either of them.

 

Very well said.

 

I think Tori enjoys therapy not because it's particularly helping her or because she's being fully honest and taking responsibility but because it's all about her for that hour and she has a totally captive audience.

 

Dr. Wexler isn't helping  - -she's been Tori's therapist for years and that should say everything right there.  The point of therapy is to help, yes, but not indefinitely.  A good therapist wants his or her patients to NOT have to come see them any longer.  Nevermind the conflict of interest for Wexler to see Tori and Dean together - - she should be referring them to a couples counselor but she should also probably suggest that Tori try a new therapist.  One who won't enable and coddle her and will call her on her bullshit.

 

I've watched all of Tori's previous shows and while I think she has certainly had issues for a while (probably due to her upbringing and the relationship with her mother) I don't think they were as pronounced and full-fledged as what we see now.   I just don't think she could have hidden them so well.  I think they have really come to the surface because of the four children.  As others have said, Tori wants to be babied.  Dean probably babied her in the beginning but it's hard to do once you have an actual baby, much less four.  I think Tori is probably at least slightly resentful of the children, especially the older two, who aren't cute little compliant babies any longer.  I understand that she traces their problems back to when she was pregnant with Liam and when he was first born (their problems probably were there from the beginning) but she should consider how Liam is going to take this when he hears it.  Which he eventually will, since she said this on camera. 

 

It reminds me of a story I read years ago about how upset she was that Liam had seen a supermarket tabloid with Tori and Dean on the cover with a headline about divorce and how she had to explain to Liam what that meant and how terrible that was.  What does she think this show is doing to him?  He's older now and has a better understanding of what's going on. 

 

Others have said that Tori hates Dean but that she doesn't want to divorce him but to control him.  I do agree.  I wonder though why Dean stays with her.  Can he possibly still be "truly madly deeply" in love with her?  I can't fathom that.  Not unless he knows she's mentally ill and is dedicated to helping her.  The only reason I can think of is the children.  Financially would he be better off on his own?  Jack will be an adult in 2 years, so the effective end of child support.  If he could get joint custody of the kids he wouldn't have to worry about paying Tori child support.  Maybe he would get more jobs if the "stigma" of reality tv wasn't on him. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by psychoticstate

[TheRealT]

Others have said that Tori hates Dean but that she doesn't want to divorce him but to control him.  I do agree.  I wonder though why Dean stays with her.  Can he possibly still be "truly madly deeply" in love with her?  I can't fathom that.  Not unless he knows she's mentally ill and is dedicated to helping her.  The only reason I can think of is the children.  Financially would he be better off on his own?  Jack will be an adult in 2 years, so the effective end of child support.  If he could get joint custody of the kids he wouldn't have to worry about paying Tori child support.  Maybe he would get more jobs if the "stigma" of reality tv wasn't on him. 

I've wondered about that too. It's obvious that both Tori and Dean are miserable, so why do they stay together? For Tori, I think she's still trying to "win" and prove everyone who called her magical fairy tale a sordid extramarital affair wrong. I think she's also still in a place where she'd rather punish Dean than leave him and she probably figures that if she cut him loose he'd get to date all the Emily Goodhands he wanted since he'd be free of Tori 100% of the time and free of the kids at least 50% of the time. The thought of that probably burns her up.

 

For Dean, I think finances are one thing. Despite their "struggles," they live in 7-figure homes with pools, have nannies, Malibu beach vacations, etc. Tori thinks they're suffering terribly, but Dean knows that they're living very comfortably. If he divorced her he'd likely have to downgrade his lifestyle. I think he's also still hoping to parlay his fame with Tori into a successful Hollywood career. If he divorced her, he knows that Tori would completely trash him in the media as well as privately to whatever Hollywood contacts she has. Now he's (delusionally) hopeful that he can get back to his Gourmet Dad or Motorcycle Dad or Great Actor image sufficiently to luck into a role on a hit show or anything that would enable him to make a good living as an actor (the whole reason he got involved with Tori in the first place). I think he's also hoping/expecting that Tori will get a significant inheritance when Candy dies and if they're still married he could leave her then and get a chunk of that for himself. On top of all of that, I think he does care about his kids and it's easier to be involved in their lives at this stage when they're so young if he lives with them and has nannies to help out rather than having them every other weekend on his own in a 2-bedroom apartment or something. He may also want to be around to shield them from Tori's insanity as much as possible. Things will definitely take a turn for the worse with Tori and the kids when she and Dean split (I think it's a question of when, not if) and he probably knows that.

[lorikauai]

Tori needs to get her story straight. In the beginning of the first season of True Tori she was complaining about how hard it was with Dean in rehab because normally he did so much to take care of the kids. Now she paints him as an uninvolved dad who needs to be managed.

Dr. Wexler (autocorrect wants to make her Dr Weaker haha) actually made a couple decent points this time. Tori must let Dean be a dad and stop micromanaging him. WTF Tori. So what if he wouldn't do everything exactly like you? That's kind of the point.

And did I hear that correctly - the implants were recalled 15 yrs ago and she never took them out. Her oldest is 7 or 8 so what was she doing in the 7 years before that? You can't even take care of yourself but you think you can take care of the kids better than anyone else?

I was also freaked out by the wrinkled eyelids but the no body fat thing makes sense.

[psychoticstate]

I've wondered about that too. It's obvious that both Tori and Dean are miserable, so why do they stay together? For Tori, I think she's still trying to "win" and prove everyone who called her magical fairy tale a sordid extramarital affair wrong. I think she's also still in a place where she'd rather punish Dean than leave him and she probably figures that if she cut him loose he'd get to date all the Emily Goodhands he wanted since he'd be free of Tori 100% of the time and free of the kids at least 50% of the time. The thought of that probably burns her up.

 

For Dean, I think finances are one thing. Despite their "struggles," they live in 7-figure homes with pools, have nannies, Malibu beach vacations, etc. Tori thinks they're suffering terribly, but Dean knows that they're living very comfortably. If he divorced her he'd likely have to downgrade his lifestyle. I think he's also still hoping to parlay his fame with Tori into a successful Hollywood career. If he divorced her, he knows that Tori would completely trash him in the media as well as privately to whatever Hollywood contacts she has. Now he's (delusionally) hopeful that he can get back to his Gourmet Dad or Motorcycle Dad or Great Actor image sufficiently to luck into a role on a hit show or anything that would enable him to make a good living as an actor (the whole reason he got involved with Tori in the first place). I think he's also hoping/expecting that Tori will get a significant inheritance when Candy dies and if they're still married he could leave her then and get a chunk of that for himself. On top of all of that, I think he does care about his kids and it's easier to be involved in their lives at this stage when they're so young if he lives with them and has nannies to help out rather than having them every other weekend on his own in a 2-bedroom apartment or something. He may also want to be around to shield them from Tori's insanity as much as possible. Things will definitely take a turn for the worse with Tori and the kids when she and Dean split (I think it's a question of when, not if) and he probably knows that.

 

It's a mystery, isn't it? 

 

I think I can understand Tori's motivations more.  She doesn't want anyone to say "I told you so", after getting involved with a married man and dumping her own seemingly nice husband.  Ultimately she wants someone to baby her, coddle her and worship the ground she walks on.  Dean did that at one time.   I also think she wants to be the more famous or "important" one in the relationship.  Tori may also not want to be twice divorced and a single parent.  From what we've seen, Dean does do a lot of child rearing duties and things around the house.  If he's not there, Tori will have to hire more people and/or get Patsy back.

 

I have wondered if everything on the show is outright bullshit, as season one supposedly was.  But there seems to be so much underlying friction and stress, I just can't imagine it's fake. 

 

Frankly, I'm very surprised that Dean hasn't pulled the plug at least on his own participation.  Although I suppose it's helping his case for being the more rational of the two. 

 

Tori is definitely exhausting and I'm disappointed that she is such a mess.  I've always enjoyed her previous tv outings and there is just nothing to enjoy with this one.

 

I'll be very surprised if they are still together a year or two from now.

[heatherchandler]

he'll swoop in from time to time to make the kids s'mores for breakfast

I am cracking UP at this!

Crying Wolf and Jess

Crying Wolf! That is awesome.

Edited December 4, 2014 by heatherchandler

[RedheadZombie]

Even Dr. W told Tori some stuff she didn't want to hear in this episode! This show is her creation, and she comes off so badly. Every week. She finds new lows. For me it has had the opposite effect that she intended; Dean seems saner and more sympathetic. I also think he should take the kids and leave.

 

Any chance that the two week hospital stay was for breast surgery? 

 

Nothing short of disaster would require a surgery like the doctor described, to require a two week hospital stay. 

 

Even Dr. W told Tori some stuff she didn't want to hear in this episode! This show is her creation, and she comes off so badly. Every week. She finds new lows. For me it has had the opposite effect that she intended; Dean seems saner and more sympathetic. I also think he should take the kids and leave.

 

I go back and forth on Dean.  I thought Mary Jo sounded very believable when she said all those things about Dean, but then his outrage and anger was very believable too.  I loved when Jess was asking Tori to go away for a day or two, and Dean said - "Say yes with abandon".

 

Anyone know a ballpark figure of how much Dean will get paid for eight days for CSI?

 

Does the Mary Jo of today resemble Mary Jo circa eight years ago?  I swear I saw her on a talk show post-divorce, and she did not look like she does now.  She had short dark hair, kind of a spiky haircut, and a brash personality.  Maybe it was someone else, but I was so sure it was her.  The thing that stands about her now, is her uptalking - which drives me nuts.

[Maharincess]

I noticed it when it happened. She's squeezing her eyes really tight because the praying mantis is crawling on her face. The reason they look shriveled is because that's what happens to women who don't have any fat on their body, there's nothing to keep her eyelids plump, it's just skin.

And this reminds me of what I was thinking when I watched that scene. Tori stayed remarkably calm when that bug was crawling up her & onto her face & hair. I would have been a raving lunatic. So she stays calm when giant bugs crawl on her face, but freaks out when Dean microwaves a potato better than her. OK, got it.

The Praying Mantis is very gentle, there would be no reason to be a raving lunatic. My dad used to bring them home all the time, we raised 4 generations of them.

They are fascinating.

[technorebel]

The Praying Mantis is very gentle, there would be no reason to be a raving lunatic. My dad used to bring them home all the time, we raised 4 generations of them.

They are fascinating.

 

Unless you're a male and the female is feeling snack-ish after mating.  Or predaTori, one might even say.

Edited December 10, 2014 by technorebel

[Fishgirl]

Tori loves being the victim, and martyr. She has serious, and severe mental health issues, and uses her multiple illness, both real & manufactured, to escape the reality of what her life has become. She's a nightmare with her kids, they never have her geniune focus, because she's too consumed with herself to give of herself to them. Dean may have many issues, but he's a good, level headed and nurturing parent. She's a mess.