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Small Talk: The Quiver


Lisin
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So, with regards to Sleepy Hollow and Ichabod/Abbie...are people thinking that's going to happen?  I don't get that impression, but I admit that I don't really ship them, either (don't anti-ship them, either...just don't care much either way).  I was really open to the show building on the special relationship that Ichabod and Abbie had during the first season, and things seemed to be heading in the "endgame" direction...but then season two happened.  That season just killed the ship (IMO), and at this point, I see love and a unique connection between the two, but I don't feel like they are "in love" with each other.     

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This article about showrunners engaging with fans focuses on The 100 and Shameless, but although Arrow isn't mentioned, it's an interesting discussion of how fans can react to that engagement. 

TY for the article post.  Although not mentioned in the article, Arrow is appearing a lot in the many comments.  My two cents is that what was marginalized previously is a lot less so today.  I think the writer pointed out the problem and not a solution, which I can understand would be hard to do.  It all reflects on a changing world and the push and pull in adjusting to it.  Lots to mull.

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This article about showrunners engaging with fans focuses on The 100 and Shameless, but although Arrow isn't mentioned, it's an interesting discussion of how fans can react to that engagement. 

The top comment on that post is someone stating as a fact that Arrow went with Olicity because of fan pressure. It's so frustrating to see that when the showrunners have said over and over again that they went with what they thought worked best for the show, story/character-wise and based on actor chemistry. I just don't understand the insistence that a show must be one way, even if it doesn't engage the audience, or the actors aren't feeling it, or the writers are uninspired by it. Therein lies the road to cancellation. 

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TY for the article post.  Although not mentioned in the article, Arrow is appearing a lot in the many comments.  My two cents is that what was marginalized previously is a lot less so today.  I think the writer pointed out the problem and not a solution, which I can understand would be hard to do.  It all reflects on a changing world and the push and pull in adjusting to it.  Lots to mull.

 

I do have a solution: stop deciding that the best way to cut back on PR/marketing expenses is to demand that your talent do that work for you.  Or, if you feel you must do this, at least provide social media training.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think either solution is going to be implemented any time soon.

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The top comment on that post is someone stating as a fact that Arrow went with Olicity because of fan pressure. It's so frustrating to see that when the showrunners have said over and over again that they went with what they thought worked best for the show, story/character-wise and based on actor chemistry.

I still suspect that audience reaction was #1 factor. It's not necessarily bad, I ship another non-canon yet popular among fans relationship on another comic book show like whoa, but I think there's a lot of sense in thinking it was fan reaction that made Olicity the central romance of the show.

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I do recall the meteorologists saying that they are expecting a lot of weird weather phenomena.

Having put my snow shovels away for the season, I awoke to five inches of snow this morning.  Ugh.

 

Climatologists have been saying for years that "global warming" is a misnomer and we should be calling it "weather weirding".

 

^ I know! I was, like, come on?! That twist was so unnecessary. Unless,

Betsy Ross sacrifices herself or something and dies to defeat the Hidden One

then all right, I'll allow it. But I don't feel that confident about it. I feel like this has the potential to go Katrina drama-levels bad. Ugh. I really hope the new showrunners learned from the suck that was the Crane family drama and just stick with the Mills family drama, which is tons more interesting since I actually care about both Mills sisters.

Sleepy Hollow is the perfect example of a good show that is going to kill itself because they are so afraid to put the couple together.  Season one was so good because of the chemistry between Crane and Mills, and then the show-runner fell in love with Katrina and the show dropped so much it almost got cancelled.  This season would have been the time to put them together because frankly the premise that the fathers of the country knew about all this mystical stuff and built secret caves to prevent it is getting too silly.  And yet they seem to be making the same mistakes over again. At least Jenny has more of a role this season.

 

(sidenote:  the U.S. is the only country I know who cares about its constitution so much.  Other countries either either have constitutions so old (e.g. England 1215) that they're used to changing it, or so new (Canada 1982) that no one knows or really cares.)

 

Why Understanding Fans is the New Superpower (Guest Column)

Susan Kresnicka  APRIL 2, 2016 | 10:00AM PT

http://variety.com/2016/tv/columns/understanding-fans-superpower-troika-1201743513/

She's an anthropologist working in the entertainment industry doing research on fans of all sorts of things -- that must be fascinating.  I'd love a job like that.

 

ETA:  As someone said earlier, show runners listen to fans when it's what they want to do anyway.  Sleepy Hollow and Castle are examples of when they don't listen until  it's too late.

 

There a new Dr. Who spin-off set in a high school and described as "Buffy-like"  Somehow, I'm not so interested any more.  Whedon was an original and the copies, like the Magicians, haven't made the grade for me.

Edited by statsgirl
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I still suspect that audience reaction was #1 factor. It's not necessarily bad, I ship another non-canon yet popular among fans relationship on another comic book show like whoa, but I think there's a lot of sense in thinking it was fan reaction that made Olicity the central romance of the show.

 

I would buy that were it not for the countless comments by the EPs saying that it wasn't because of the fans.  Even the most die-hard of BC comic fan among the producers (Kreisberg) made a big to do at SDCC before S3 that O/L was because of how well Stephen and Emily played off each other.  He then proceeded to downplay the effect the fans had on the decision to pair them.  In fact, all of the producers have been consistent in that claim.  People can certainly choose to ignore that, but I personally think the fan argument is being made because some viewers don't want to believe that the producers/writers actually wanted to go the non-canon direction based upon the dynamics happening onscreen.

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Do you, after everything, believe what the EPs say? Personally, I'm pretty sure they are lying liars who lie. Too many instances of that (please don't ask me to provide proof, I'm not such a huge fan of Arrow, I've just been with it since the beginning, so I think it should be pretty obvious).

Edited by FurryFury
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Do you, after everything, believe what the EPs say? Personally, I'm pretty sure they are lying liars who lie. Too many instances of that (please don't ask me to provide proof, I'm not such a huge fan of Arrow, I've just been with it since the beginning, so I think it should be pretty obvious).

 

Nope, not at all.  There have definitely been instances where they've been talking through their ____holes--especially throughout S3.  I just don't happen to think this is one of them because of both their complete unanimity in their assertion and the fact that they have never deviated from it.

Edited by NumberCruncher
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I do believe it was their decision to give Felicity a role in the main cast, but main romance? Their long-standing and frankly inexplicable hard-on for Laurel makes me think that the fans' (and via them, the network's) opinion played a huge role. 

Edited by FurryFury
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I think it's a little bit of both, the EP's liked the chemistry between SA and EBR and the fans reaction to their chemistry as well. Plus the fact that KC wasn't working with SA or the audience. 

 

I'd be interested in reading the anthropologist's study on Fandoms. You do have to wonder what draws us to certain characters over others, why some characters get a huge following and other's don't and what it all means. For me I'm mostly drawn to the morally ambiguous characters over the hero ones.

 

Then there is the fact that I loved Chloe on Smallville (she was the only reason I watched the whole series) but I am not as attached to Felicity as others on this board are. I like her but am not that interested in her. I don't ship on shows anymore, but even with that I can see the chemistry between Olicity and don't deny it's there. Same for other popular pairings. 

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Then there is the fact that I loved Chloe on Smallville (she was the only reason I watched the whole series) but I am not as attached to Felicity as others on this board are. I like her but am not that interested in her. I don't ship on shows anymore, but even with that I can see the chemistry between Olicity and don't deny it's there. Same for other popular pairings. 

I'm the opposite! I didn't care about Chloe on Smallville and I was rooting for Oliver/Tess because I thought Justin Hartley had better chemistry with that actress. I don't think Chloe and Felicity have anything in common, though, aside from the fact that they're both blonde computer experts. 

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I do believe it was their decision to give Felicity a role in the main cast, but main romance? Their long-standing and frankly inexplicable hard-on for Laurel makes me think that the fans' (and via them, the network's) opinion played a huge role.

I can believe that they entertained her as a potential love interest as early as their first scene in the 3rd episode. In that same Kreisberg interview he mentioned that everyone there saw the noticeable effect EBR had on SA. Stephen even brings it up to this day. While I don't necessarily believe they saw Felicity as Oliver's great love at that point, I do think they saw potential for something to happen between them romantically once they determined she would become a recurring character.

I'd be interested in reading the anthropologist's study on Fandoms. You do have to wonder what draws us to certain characters over others, why some characters get a huge following and other's don't and what it all means. For me I'm mostly drawn to the morally ambiguous characters over the hero ones.

I tend to favor more morally ambiguous characters as well. I've spoken extensively on my fascination with complex villains and characters that people tend to dislike. I don't identify with them, but I love a good paradox. Generally, however, I think most people become drawn to characters they can personally identify with on some level.

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I'd be interested in reading the anthropologist's study on Fandoms. You do have to wonder what draws us to certain characters over others, why some characters get a huge following and other's don't and what it all means. For me I'm mostly drawn to the morally ambiguous characters over the hero ones.

Me too, I find fandoms and fan followings fascinating, from the psychological/sociological point of view. I sometimes follow fandoms of shows I don't watch at all or don't watch anymore simply because it's so interesting. Personally, I'm drawn to psychological complexity in general and to certain tropes in particular (I've read enough of TVTropes and seen/read enough stuff to pretty much name them by heart).

 

I can believe that they entertained her as a potential love interest as early as their first scene in the 3rd episode. In that same Kreisberg interview he mentioned that everyone there saw the noticeable effect EBR had on SA. Stephen even brings it up to this day. While I don't necessarily believe they saw Felicity as Oliver's great love at that point, I do think they saw potential for something to happen between them romantically once they determined she would become a recurring character.

 

*A* love interest of Oliver's didn't mean much. He banged like 8 chicks in 2 seasons (including flashbacks), didn't he? (TBH it was a huge, huge turn-off for me. Never cared for players).

Edited by FurryFury
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I don't think I can personally identify with Faith on Buffy, Irena Derveko on Alias, Sara, Peggy Carter, Elketra from Daredevil. or even Chloe on Smallville. I do tend to like the fighting characters. However I've never experienced anything like those characters have. 

 

Me too, I find fandoms and fan followings fascinating, from the psychological/sociological point of view. I sometimes follow fandoms of shows I don't watch at all or don't watch anymore simply because it's so interesting.

 

Even someone studying Shipper Wars would be an interesting read. I've only been involved in one shipper war in a fandom and that experience turned me off shipping all together.  

 

Another thing for me is I don't watch shows for their plot, I watch for the characters. Obviously a show with great characters and a great plot is always a plus. But I can do without the later if I love characters. 

Edited by Sakura12
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There a new Dr. Who spin-off set in a high school and described as "Buffy-like" Somehow, I'm not so interested any more. Whedon was an original and the copies, like the Magicians, haven't made the grade for me.

Um. Hmm. I loved all the Who spinoffs, like I enjoyed the heck out of Sarah Jane Adventures. But this doesn't intrigue me at all. I was hoping that at some point they'd revisit the Luke character doing something interesting but this just seems blah.
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I liked the Dr. Who spin-offs, including Torchwood. Sadly they never played the Sarah Jane Adventures here.  I thought she was one of the best of the companions.

 

When I said I wasn't interested, I meant Buffy clones. There seems to have been a ton of those and they range from C to D- for me.

 

ETA:  for fans of Agent Carter, Suits or Firefly, Gina Torres has been cast as the lead on The Death of Eva Sofia Valdes for ABC, produced by Fazekas and Butters.

 

I will miss Jessica with her kickass attitude and fabulous clothes.

Edited by statsgirl
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I liked the Dr. Who spin-offs, including Torchwood. Sadly they never played the Sarah Jane Adventures here.  I thought she was one of the best of the companions.

 

When I said I wasn't interested, I meant Buffy clones. There seems to have been a ton of those and they range from C to D- for me.

 

ETA:  for fans of Agent Carter, Suits or Firefly, Gina Torres has been cast as the lead on The Death of Eva Sofia Valdes for ABC, produced by Fazekas and Butters.

 

I will miss Jessica with her kickass attitude and fabulous clothes.

Wait, who did play do on Agent Carter?

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I'd be interested in reading the anthropologist's study on Fandoms. You do have to wonder what draws us to certain characters over others, why some characters get a huge following and other's don't and what it all means. For me I'm mostly drawn to the morally ambiguous characters over the hero ones.

 

 

 

 

When it comes to shipping, I do find what draws me is a pairing that brings out something new or deeper or different in the other character.  That's where I get invested.  The times I've shipped hardest, is when I'm only so so about either character until suddenly they were put together.  Often its seeing the character through the eyes of the other character that makes me see them individually in a positive way.  

Even someone studying Shipper Wars would be an interesting read. I've only been involved in one shipper war in a fandom and that experience turned me off shipping all together.  

 

 

 

I can't help shipping but I thought after Smallville I'd never engage in the fandom again, but Arrow pulled me back in.  The show's not over but no matter what happens, the one thing Smallville gave me was a sense of ownership to the characters, that the story on screen doesn't have to be what defines the ending I take away from it.  That's probably why the shipping wars didn't put me off shipping.  I just decided I could win no matter what, lol.   

I liked the Dr. Who spin-offs, including Torchwood. Sadly they never played the Sarah Jane Adventures here.  I thought she was one of the best of the companions.

 

When I said I wasn't interested, I meant Buffy clones. There seems to have been a ton of those and they range from C to D- for me.

 

ETA:  for fans of Agent Carter, Suits or Firefly, Gina Torres has been cast as the lead on The Death of Eva Sofia Valdes for ABC, produced by Fazekas and Butters.

 

I will miss Jessica with her kickass attitude and fabulous clothes.

They had the first season of the Sara Jane Chronicle of the Sci Fi channel (before it was SyFy) but the ratings didn't stand up against the expense.  It was a show aimed at a younger crowd but I had fun with it and it made her appearance on Dr Who at the end of Ten's run that much more sweet. 

 

About Gina Torres...I wonder what that means for Jessica on Suits.  I didn't see the season ender as her send off soo....?

Edited by BkWurm1
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Regarding Gina Torres in suits, this is a little old but maybe still relevant

Eva Sofia, which would be Torres’ first series-lead role, wouldn’t immediately affect her part on Suits. But if the series is greenlit, Torres will remain a regular through the USA Network drama’s upcoming sixth season “with her character likely phased out,” Deadline reports.

Source: http://tvline.com/2016/03/04/gina-torres-leaving-suits-jessica-pearson-abc-pilot-the-death-of-eva-sofia-valdez/ Edited by Genki
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Suits this last season was incredibly frustrating.  If they'd EVER just listen to the women, their problems would have been solved.  But no, they know better and end up screwing over everyone in the end. 

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Suits this last season was incredibly frustrating.  If they'd EVER just listen to the women, their problems would have been solved.  But no, they know better and end up screwing over everyone in the end. 

I quit Suits this season. It's beyond ridiculous now. This season even made me STOP shipping Donna/Harvey which I never thought was possible. Rachel has become beyond unbearable, I don't give a damn about Mike or his problems anymore... Literally the only 3 people who I like, who are woefully sidelined, are Jessica, Louis, and Donna. And tbh I'm tired of the show. It's the same storyline over and over again :/ 

Also... I just zipped through 7 episodes of Crazy Ex Girlfriend this weekend. AND OH MY GOD I LOVE IT

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I might argue some uses of luxuriant vs luxurious. As pointed out, one of the definitions of luxuriant is lush and one of the definitions for lush is "very rich providing sensory pleasure" and quite often there is overlap between luxurious items that are luxuriant.

Also, irregardless is NOT a word. Grr!

The mute point is more far spread than anyone should be comfortable admitting. Once I even explained the origin and what a moot court was and still I was told, nope, my uncle/dad/mother/grandparent said its mute, you have to be wrong. I'm pretty free wheeling about sentence structure (end with all the prepositions you want to) but I really hate when mistake words stick around long enough to be given a dictionary definition. Drive them out with fire I tell you!! And take Bae and fleek with you. Just because!

Edited by BkWurm1
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I hate "would of/could of/should of" with the fire of a thousand suns. I learned about contractions in like, second grade. There's no reason for native speakers to make that mistake. 

 

The article reminds me of a "debate" I saw on twitter last week, when SA gave an interview and used the term "sordid affair." Except people thought he said "sorted affair" and kept insisting that is an actual thing, and I just wanted to throw books through the screen at them

Edited by lemotomato
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I might argue some uses of luxuriant vs luxurious. As pointed out, one of the definitions of luxuriant is lush and one of the definitions for lush is "very rich providing sensory pleasure" and quite often there is overlap between luxurious items that are luxuriant.

Also, irregardless is NOT a word. Grr!

The mute point is more far spread than anyone should be comfortable admitting. Once I even explained the origin and what a moot court was and still I was told, nope, my uncle/dad/mother/grandparent said its mute, you have to be wrong. I'm pretty free wheeling about sentence structure (end with all the prepositions you want to) but I really hate when mistake words stick around long enough to be given a dictionary definition. Drive them out with fire I tell you!! And take Bae and fleek with you. Just because!

 

Personally, I think the definition should be changed to :

 

Moo point  "'It's a moo point. it's like a cow's opiniion. It doesn't matter so it's just...moo" - Joey Tribbiani.... He's not wrong.

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I came across Dancing with the Stars (which I've watched off and on over the years) the other night -- and was blown away by watching Nyle DiMarco dance!  He's a completely deaf contestant and has to learn to dance from his pro partner, Peta, by getting visual cues from her and just memorizing the steps.  Amazing (found this video on youtube)...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp4sCE5Amxk

Edited by tv echo
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I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I thought it was "all intensive purposes" for a long time.  And I'm pretty sure that I use the word irregardless incorrectly any time I use it.  Lol.  I've seen people use "mute point" in various forums on PTV, so I'm not surprised to see that one on the list.

 

A few things that annoy me are when people use then, but really mean than.  I see that one a lot.  And of course, your/you're.  For some reason that I'll never understand, my boss pronounces garnishment as garnshiment.  That makes me want to rage because I've corrected her, and she still does it.  Ahh!!

 

I actually thought that Suits was ending because I heard that Patrick J. Adams had a role on another show...but maybe it's just a one-off type of thing?  I gave up on that show very early on because it was always will so and so find out Mike's secret??  Dun dun dun!  Bleh.

 

I didn't watch, but I guess that Nyle DiMarco was on America's Next Top Model.  I randomly came across gifs of him online where he was really good friends with another contestant and was teaching him sign language.  He seems like a nice guy so I'm glad things are going well for him.

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I actually thought that Suits was ending because I heard that Patrick J. Adams had a role on another show...but maybe it's just a one-off type of thing?  I gave up on that show very early on because it was always will so and so find out Mike's secret??  Dun dun dun!  Bleh.

 

Patrick J. Adams is going to be on LoT as the mystery character that sets up season 2. We don't know if he's going to be a regular character in season 2 or just a few episodes. 

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But I just can't even with 'could care less'. It's the exact opposite of what you want to say! And the fact that even Toby Ziegler used it is juts beyond words.

 

My boss loves to say "I could care less" and I correct him every time. I was starting to think he kept doing it to irritate me, but just this morning he got it right.

 

 

Yes! Hyperbole and a Half is one of my very favorite things.

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So Crazy Ex Girlfriend... Can I say I'm really really happy with what we got in episode 16? LOVE that Rebecca finally got her head on straight (at least for now). I really like her with Greg. It's really dysfunctional. But it's probably the healthiest relationship she'll ever have lol

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For some reason that I'll never understand, my boss pronounces garnishment as garnshiment.

 

I didn't know what garnishment was, so I thought it was a side dish :D But then, now I know it's some legal term! Good to know.

(I'm not a native speaker though, but I am a translator, so I'm always on the look-out for new words).

 

I'm not as annoyed with mistakes in English compared to mistakes in my native language, which really sometimes make me want to hulk out. I'm pretty much a Grammar Nazi.

 

So Crazy Ex Girlfriend... Can I say I'm really really happy with what we got in episode 16? LOVE that Rebecca finally got her head on straight (at least for now). I really like her with Greg. It's really dysfunctional. But it's probably the healthiest relationship she'll ever have lol

 

I love Greg and Greg/Rebecca. I am so bummed we didn't get an episode this week, I was looking forward to the fallout of this (completely ill-advised) hook-up.

Crazy Ex is crazy good.

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I think my biggest peeve with English is when people say "over exaggerate". I actually get really upset when people use it in a sentence.

Edited by Delphi
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Wow, I've seen it hundreds of times and didn't know it was bad form. Could it be that it has slowly crept its way to becoming somewhat acceptable (like "literally")? Languages change all the time, after all, and dictionaries can't always keep up with this.

Edited by FurryFury
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I think my biggest peeve with English is when people say "over exaggerate". I actually get really upset when people use it in a sentence.

 

LOL.

I tend to think people forget 'hyperbolic' is a word that  is kind of like the idea behind "over exaggerate", which is not really accurate either ..but anyway

 

True argument with my sister one day on the phone

 

My sister exaggerates a lot and we were arguing about something

 

Me: "Oh, just stop being so hyperbolic".

Sis: (enraged) "I'm not lying. I am not a liar".  

Me: (brain breaks...ruhrrrrr) "Say what? I didn't call you a liar. If I thought you were lying, I would call you a liar". 

Sis: "Then why did you say I'm hyperbolic "

Me: to myself /That's not how this works...That's not how any of this works.

Me: Um.No that's not what it means

Sis: Yes it does

Me (cracks knuckles) 'NO, hyperbolic is kind of like when you say OVER EXAGGERATE but the actual word is HYPERBOLE. But there is no such thing as over exaggerate. And I'm not being hyperbolic. Find a dictionary. 

Sis: F you. 

Me: Mkay...

Sis: /hangs up on me

To this day she still thinks I called her a liar.

 

LOL

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Wow, I've seen it hundreds of times and didn't know it was bad form. Could it be that it has slowly crept its way to becoming somewhat acceptable (like "literally")? Languages change all the time, after all, and dictionaries can't always keep up with this.

Well, the word "exaggerate" already denotes excess "over exaggerate" is pretty redundant. It certainly can be used informally, I think, but it doesn't roll off the tongue nicely if that makes sense.

Edited by Delphi
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Well, the word "exaggerate" already denotes excess "over exaggerate" is pretty redundate.

You probably meant "redundant". Sorry, this topic has awakened my lowest impulses :) I can sometimes be a nitpicker.

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