Afterbuzz Show: DWTS

[truthaboutluv]

Yes, can we please get Anna and Jake back, please. The thing with Anna is even when I don't necessarily agree with her comments and will say as much, I at least can say she is specific about why she thinks the way she does and will talk about the technique of the dance. I never enjoy Serge on the show because one, his monotone voice drives me crazy, he rarely adds anything in my opinion and he always lets his Chmerkovksiy brothers' bias show. Couple things that bugged me:

 

Serge's boldly stating that Derek and Nastia's tango was like Derek copying Maks and Meryl. I saw those comments online Monday night and I made sure to go rewatch both dances and that is completely not true in my opinion. Yes both dances had a similar type song as they were both danced to a Calvin Harris song - well Derek and Nastia had no control over the song they were assigned. However as he's been doing all season, Derek made plenty of use of Nastia's flexibility which meant there was a whole lot of kicks and flicks and splits in that dance that were nowhere in Meryl and Maks' tango. I even read comments that the dances were similar down to the costumes which is interesting because Meryl was in pants for her Tango and Nastia was in a dress. 

 

The comments about Rumer and Val's dance. I'm sorry but what the hell was Serge and Paul talking about with Rumer being an onion who has shown so many sides? Really, she has - when? Because I feel like I've been seeing one speed and one intensity since Week 1. It's always sexy, strength and bad ass from her. Paul saying she brought sexy this week like she hasn't before - did he miss the Salsa or hell the Samba last week? And of course the stuff about the music which I called bullshit on in the episode thread. I thought Kristyn saying "it's not like they're going to do Fosse to Bootylicious" was ridiculous because why not? Beyonce incorporates Fosse moves in her dances. The entire Single Ladies video/dance was Fosse inspired. 

[Andiethewestie]

Gee I saw Rumer's Foxtrot as elegant,  I saw her Waltz as vulnerable and yet strong, Her Cha Cha as fierce, her Salsa as Cher/Disco inspired and her  Broadway as explosive and fun.  The choices and the dances I totally see a great performance, with her technique improving. A dancer is not just a techician, she is an artist, and her portrayals of the various characters are spot on. 

 

As for Beyonce, she ripped choreography from Fosse for Single Girls, and only really twerked for Bootylicious, so in fact the dance did more than the song did in terms of content. 

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but the reason I didn't love Rumer's Waltz is because I wanted to see tender and vulnerable and didn't feel like I did. It was dramatic and had an intensity and looked very similar to their Foxtrot which I also thought was more dramatic than soft and elegant (which isn't to say there wasn't some elegance to it, just that I saw a lot of intensity). And for me her Cha Cha, Salsa and Samba were all sexy and power. But again YMMV. For me personally, I don't feel like I have seen soft and quiet from Rumer once. 

 

As for the Beyonce comment, yes I am aware of her ripping off the Fosse choreography for Single Ladies which is why I pointed out and yes the Bootylicious video was twerking but my point is, it is not impossible to throw in these types of moves just because you're given that song. It just means thinking a little outside of the box. But again, YMMV. 

[anony mouse]

YMMV but the reason I didn't love Rumer's Waltz is because I wanted to see tender and vulnerable and didn't feel like I did. It was dramatic and had an intensity and looked very similar to their Foxtrot which I also thought was more dramatic than soft and elegant (which isn't to say there wasn't some elegance to it, just that I saw a lot of intensity). And for me her Cha Cha, Salsa and Samba were all sexy and power. But again YMMV. For me personally, I don't feel like I have seen soft and quiet from Rumer once. 

 

As for the Beyonce comment, yes I am aware of her ripping off the Fosse choreography for Single Ladies which is why I pointed out and yes the Bootylicious video was twerking but my point is, it is not impossible to throw in these types of moves just because you're given that song. It just means thinking a little outside of the box. But again, YMMV. 

 

I agree. I like Rumer a lot, but I think Val is doing her a disservice by not bringing in more "light and shade" as Len would say. I've not seen any softness or vulnerability from her. She's focused so much on sexy! power! fierce! that I feel like all her routines are the same character.

[skittl3862]

Serge's boldly stating that Derek and Nastia's tango was like Derek copying Maks and Meryl. I saw those comments online Monday night and I made sure to go rewatch both dances and that is completely not true in my opinion. Yes both dances had a similar type song as they were both danced to a Calvin Harris song - well Derek and Nastia had no control over the song they were assigned. However as he's been doing all season, Derek made plenty of use of Nastia's flexibility which meant there was a whole lot of kicks and flicks and splits in that dance that were nowhere in Meryl and Maks' tango. I even read comments that the dances were similar down to the costumes which is interesting because Meryl was in pants for her Tango and Nastia was in a dress. 

I know I mentioned this in the show thread, and it's true. The production was nearly identical with the black background and blue/white spinning lights. The choreography may have slightly used different elements, but two Calvin Harris tangos with black backgrounds, spinning blue and white lights, with full-stage runs at the crescendo look very similar side by side. And Val did a paso doble last season to another Calvin Harris song with a similar production style, and I remember he was called out for copying Maks. Derek should be too.

 

Suri looked like she was eating a lemon the whole episode. I also missed Anna's critiques. I don't know enough about dance elements, so I like AfterBuzz that perspective instead of the "I don't CONNECT with her!!" blather.

[Andiethewestie]

I agree. I like Rumer a lot, but I think Val is doing her a disservice by not bringing in more "light and shade" as Len would say. I've not seen any softness or vulnerability from her. She's focused so much on sexy! power! fierce! that I feel like all her routines are the same character.

 

Opps, you know, You tube is great. We all remember Lens comment that this could be Vals year, I suppose people get their shorts in a knot and forget about what he said just before that...he loved how Rumers Foxtrot  was fire and ice,having a lovely light and shade comment begins at 1:49 .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar39aRfXz9E So I agree with Len.  I also agree with Julianne for the Waltz when she said that her dancing was a great juxtaposition, Rumer was vulnerable and yet strong, that is who she is, and that is what I love about her dancing.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[anony mouse]

Opps, you know, You tube is great. We all remember Lens comment that this could be Vals year, I suppose people get their shorts in a knot and forget about what he said just before that...he loved how Rumers Foxtrot  was fire and ice,having a lovely light and shade comment begins at 1:49 .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar39aRfXz9E So I agree with Len.  I also agree with Julianne for the Waltz when she said that her dancing was a great juxtaposition, Rumer was vulnerable and yet strong, that is who she is, and that is what I love about her dancing.

 

If you read back what I wrote, I was not saying Len said Rumer lacked "light and shade," but merely using Len's expression to denote what I was talking about (see "I feel....") with her style and presentation, and with Val's choreography. And I still feel that way, all judging commentary aside. There's been plenty of times that the comments don't line up with what I saw on my screen, and Rumer is one of them (Nastia is another). Rumer's very talented, but in my opinion, she lacks variety and nuance.

[truthaboutluv]

The production was nearly identical with the black background and blue/white spinning lights. The choreography may have slightly used different elements, but two Calvin Harris tangos with black backgrounds, spinning blue and white lights, with full-stage runs at the crescendo look very similar side by side. And Val did a paso doble last season to another Calvin Harris song with a similar production style, and I remember he was called out for copying Maks. Derek should be too.

 

 

As I said, I disagree and I stand by that. I wasn't referring to your comment, this is stuff I saw online on social media after the show and people were going as far as claiming that everything - from choreography, costume and staging was the same and I call bullshit on that. And seeing Serge not so subtly bring it up just annoyed me some more. When people are going around accusing one Pro of ripping off another dance, I expect to see many similarities in the choreography and performance and I maintain that I didn't.

 

The song, as I noted, is not on them as they danced to what they were given. And even the song wasn't the same. Yes both was by Calvin Harris, blame him for being repetitive in his sound, but it wasn't the same song. 

 

The spinning, probing lights show, last I checked Maks and Meryl don't have the license on lights in a dance. And in fact, Derek used that spinning light in his futuristic Paso with Joanna Krupa and his Jazz with Kelly, both seasons before Maks and Meryl's season. And speaking of Kelly's Jazz, if Derek's staging with Nastia reminded me of anything it was that, with the spinning lights and all the smoke.

 

Speaking of the smoke, that was something in Nastia and Derek's dance that was not present in Maks and Meryl  (you know, the smoke that Derek is often accused of using to hide his celebrity's weaknesses) which in my opinion, negates the whole "the staging was the same". And well I've already noted the costuming was not the same and the choreography was absolutely not the same. So I again, do not see where Derek copied Maks and Meryl's Tango.

 

I honestly cannot remember Val and Janel's Paso Doble, might look it up, but if they were accused of ripping off the dance just because they used lights too, then that's ridiculous in my opinion. I know last season, I accused Val of clearly trying to follow Maks' strategy with doing the contemporary as his freestyle with Janel but I didn't think the dances were just rip off of what Maks did with Meryl. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[kitcloudkicker]

I honestly cannot remember Val and Janel's Paso Doble, might look it up, but if they were accused of ripping off the dance just because they used lights too, then that's ridiculous in my opinion. I know last season, I accused Val of clearly trying to follow Maks' strategy with doing the contemporary as his freestyle with Janel but I didn't think the dances were just rip off of what Maks did with Meryl. 

 

 

The Meryl/Maks, Val/Janel dances had the exact same intro - they opened with the couple in silhouette against the backdrop in bright white light, and then they look at each other and hold hands as they slowly walk to the dance floor. After that they differ. I remember noting that because they came so soon after each other, and the Meryl/Maks one was such a plot point of the season ("Meryl is helping Maks not stress out omg they're so in love") that I thought it was kinda dumb for Val to reuse it so soon - I felt like it distracted from the rest of the dance which I really loved.  In general I'm not against recycling or remixing pieces of staging or lighting ideas or small bits of choreography. That's how creativity works. (Good artists borrow, great artists steal.) 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAlDHw-Biew

 

The staging of Derek's tango with Nastia reminded me much more of his tango with Bethany last year. Simple intro, walk to each other in the center of the floor surrounded by LASERS and then begin dancing. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by kitcloudkicker

[truthaboutluv]

Thanks for the video of Val and Janel's Paso. I honestly completely forgot about that dance or at least that part. 

[Abra]

How did Suri end up being the most critical person on the show? My whole world is askew.

 

I love Anna and always miss her when she's not on Afterbuzz (although I'd much rather have her back on DWTS as a full-time pro), and she was sorely needed last night. The two guys with actual ballroom dance training just loved everything and everyone, and Paul didn't give any criticism about Willow's frankly odd leg action until Suri gently and vaguely mentioned something didn't quite look right.

 

Bring back Anna and Mark. And apparently get William Shatner, who according to Krysten is a DWTS fan. That would be hilarious.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Abra

[skittl3862]

I have no issue with recycling either. There are only so many variations on a theme after 20 seasons. I think the fact that for 3 seasons back-to-back, there is a Calvin Harris song with very similar production choices only highlights the comparison. People mention similar past routines all the time, which is why it didn't seem at all odd that Serge brought it up, Chmerkovskiy bias or not.

 

 

I love Anna and always miss her when she's not on Afterbuzz (although I'd much rather have her back on DWTS as a full-time pro), and she was sorely needed last night. The two guys with actual ballroom dance training just loved everything and everyone, and Paul didn't give any criticism about Willow's frankly odd leg action until Suri gently and vaguely mentioned something didn't quite look right.

 

Doesn't Darvina dance too? Is that how she knows Mark? I thought that was how they met, but she doesn't seem to bring up anything specific in her opinions like Anna does. All those ballroom dance pros in the room and none of them mentioned anything specifically ballroom related.

 

I did like that they all called out this "jazz" category and how the show is using it as a catch-all phrase this season. I'm sure everyone who took jazz classes as a child with the all black outfits and the bowler hats and the Fosse-esque routines to Hot Note are scratching their heads as to how Love is An Open Door and Bootylicious are the same dance style. In recent seasons the show has called dances "Broadway"- a misnomer- and "Afro jazz"- which is vaguely offensive. If they're going to move away from the ballroom styles, they need to at least find more accurate descriptions of these types of dances so the pros can have some sort of parameters of what is expected, and the audience can have a reference they understand.

Edited April 23, 2015 by skittl3862

[Linderhill]

My main frustration with the Afterbuzz show lately is that they seem to always refer to how so-and-so was great on So You Think You Can Dance and how things are on that show.  Frankly I don't watch that show and it gets pretty annoying to constantly have that tossed around.  (it reminds me of how podcasters for genre shows constantly refer to Buffy as the be all and end all of that media).  Its grating.  I had no idea who Allison was before she was on this show, the same with the various other crossover dancers.  

 

As for this show, too many people and no one saying anything worthwhile.  I still cant figure out why none of them mention Riker's pigeon toes.  The point it out for other's but the judges and the Afterbuzzers never seem to notice.  

[Andiethewestie]

If you read back what I wrote, I was not saying Len said Rumer lacked "light and shade," but merely using Len's expression to denote what I was talking about (see "I feel....") with her style and presentation, and with Val's choreography.

Well of course if it suits to use a phrase, Len used it to describe how much he enjoyed Rumer's foxtrot, and the words vulnerable and strong were used by Julianne to describe Rumer's waltz. By any stretch for me and the judges, the performances Rumer has given are not "always fierce' or switched on or hyper intense"  but have a sophistication and nuance that the judges and this viewer appreciates.  Next week Rumer has the Jive, and I expect it to be as fun and exuberant as the style dictates.  

[realdancemom]

YMMV but the reason I didn't love Rumer's Waltz is because I wanted to see tender and vulnerable and didn't feel like I did. It was dramatic and had an intensity and looked very similar to their Foxtrot which I also thought was more dramatic than soft and elegant (which isn't to say there wasn't some elegance to it, just that I saw a lot of intensity). And for me her Cha Cha, Salsa and Samba were all sexy and power. But again YMMV. For me personally, I don't feel like I have seen soft and quiet from Rumer once. 

I would also like to see a soft and more flowy dance from Rumer.  I was hoping that we would get that with her foxtrot and waltz.  Some of that was because of the songs that were used for those dances.  However, Val does have a tendency to put staccato moves with these styles.  I hope she can show us a softer contemporary or rumba.  But Val's rumbas also tend to be aggressive in style.  I am glad that even though Rumer is young and beautiful, Val didn't take the showmance route with her.

 

I have the same problem with Riker.  It's Allison's choreography.  They are always so fast and frantic looking.  She is lucky that she has Riker this season because he is never off beat.  Another contestant can easily look overwhelmed like Jonathan.  I agree with those that said that his technique would improve so much with another pro.

 

To me, Nastia can perform or sell a dance.  She was showing really good facial expressions last week.  However, I don't see a connection with Derek on or off the dance floor.  Before Meryl came on the show, there was talk that she was cold and serious.  But then she came on and her chemistry with Maks was magic.

Edited April 23, 2015 by realdancemom

[Rrrhumba]

I think the most connection I've seen from Nastia was when she was hugging on Mark and Willow after the team dance. Being in LA the whole week this week should help her be a bit looser, especially with prankster Sasha training her.

I missed Anna too. I don't always agree with her but I appreciate her insights and that she's not afraid to speak her mind. Darvina went to performing arts school with Mark and Derek - I would assume her training is more in the realm of jazz/musical theatre, I don't think she's ballroom trained.

[Avidviewer]

Heads up - AfterBuzz is on Wednesday at 4pm PT. Per DWTS360 twitter the guests will be Shirley and Corky Ballas. Jake Dupree will also be in studio.

[vibeology]

This is an awful week for Shirley and Corky to be guests. They can be insightful, but mostly they're crazy protective of Mark so I imagine most of their contributions will be about how he was robbed. I kind of think he was but I don't want an hour of it on Afterbuzz.

[katha]

Yeah...this has the potential to be an epic trainwreck. The hosts haven't exactly shown that they're capable of keeping the show balanced when guests with forceful personalities and opinions are on. Based on their AB appearances, the only Ballas I would trust to give an insightful, measured response to what happened this week is Mark. Let's hope Corky and Shirley prove me wrong...not betting on it, though.

Edited April 28, 2015 by katha

[Thadeeeyus]

Corky and Shirley TOGETHER on the same show?  Oh, I'm definitely watching this one. 

[2LeftFeet]

Before Afterbuzz aired and the comment from Serge and backed by Paul generated flame tweets, my family sat and said: 'a week 6 Tango to Calvin Harris?' It was our thought that production set this up as a rival-type performance between the two OGM's. Derek presumably worked with what he was given. Listening to Serge's commentary, I read it differently than some. I thought he meant just what I wrote. Not that it was a 1 for 1 copy. My guess is that some commenting on SM read it differently also. Some commenting might not have even listened to Serge, but were reacting to what they thought was his message.

[truthaboutluv]

The comments on social media came before Afterbuzz and Serge's comment and they pretty much were "Derek and Nastia's Tango was an exact copy of Meryl and Maks' Tango". There was no misunderstanding that. And so I will say that in fairness, maybe I misunderstood Serge's comment and took it that way because I was influenced by reading so many comments basically saying it was an exact replica. So when he brought it up, I just felt like he was agreeing with all that talk I saw online.

 

Though I will say, this is not the first time I've felt Serge was passive aggressive with regards to Derek during his Afterbuzz appearance. Last season he was on for the first show, and while all the panel agreed that Bethany's Jive had been slightly overscored, he had to add "well you dance with the 5 time champion you get gifts". Of course the next week, after many not so friendly comments on the show's YouTube channel to the comment, he backtracked and said he didn't mean anything negative by it. 

[Andiethewestie]

This week's Afterbuzz is up ... Shirley and Corky pull no punches ! 

[RemoteControl88]

Refreshing and honest!!! I'm glad they are just as fed up with the BS from the judges as the fans are.  They were fairly spot on in their critique of each couple... except

1. I still think Riker needs to work on his frame. I don't think it's perfect..and a 10 for that quickstep was generous.

2. A "10" for Noah and an "8" for Rumer from CAI still feels liking judging BS.  Otherwise they made some valid points on each dance. 

 

Haha. I can now say that the entire Ballas family has been my favorite Afterbuzz episodes!

[truthaboutluv]

This episode was definitely interesting. I have to say I was surprised that Corky seemed the less critical one between him and Shirley, with regards to the show in general at least.

While I get some of Shirley's frustrations, at the same time, my feeling is the show has been on 10 years. Mark has been on for a long part of it. In other words most of this stuff is not new. So I find all the snark kind of ridiculous, not to mention this "horrible" show keeps her son employed. And he can always leave if it's so awful but we all know he won't.

Again I'm not arguing about there being a lot of annoying things that happen because yes, the reality is this is a reality entertainment show. But I'm never a fan of spitting on the very thing that you take advantage or in this case their son is a part of it.

I liked a lot of their comments about the dancing though. Like the above I too still thought something was awkward about Riker's frame but I respect their opinion. Cracked up at their reaction to the comments to Chris, which only further supports my belief that this was the judges' mind-game to lull Chris' fans into a false sense of security so they won't vote.

Also disagreed with them on being okay with Noah's score though I appreciated Shirley's comments about the balance issue. I found their disagreement about Rumer and Nastia's dances interesting. Corky cracked me up with the "I mean what's happening - a guy is singing, then Derek suddenly is and then he's moving around and what's happening."

Finally, the best part for me was Shirley not worrying about tact and putting the truth about the Henry situation on blast. I definitely have thoughts on that but it's late and I'm on my phone so I'll save it for the morning.

Edited April 30, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Thadeeeyus]

I loved their snark on the show.  Can anyone who has been associated with this show for 10 years really NOT snark on it?  It's so ridiculous now.  I doubt they said anything that any long-time viewer isn't already aware of.  I'm glad they were frank about Chris and appreciated the explanation of how hard it is for Noah to just stand, his core, etc.  I sided with Shirley about Rumer being underscored, and sided with Corky about Derek being indulgent.  I like they they praised a lot of the pros and it wasn't just a Mark praise fest. Entertaining show. 

[2LeftFeet]

Refreshing and honest!!! I'm glad they are just as fed up with the BS from the judges as the fans are.  They were fairly spot on in their critique of each couple... except

1. I still think Riker needs to work on his frame. I don't think it's perfect..and a 10 for that quickstep was generous.

2. A "10" for Noah and an "8" for Rumer from CAI still feels liking judging BS.  Otherwise they made some valid points on each dance. 

 

Haha. I can now say that the entire Ballas family has been my favorite Afterbuzz episodes!

I must say I was quite surprised neither Shirley or Corky mentioned anything about issues many of us have been discussing. If I, with my user name matching my actual skills can see it... Also thought they were pretty kind in general to Allison, tbh.

While not even Corky and Shirley always agreed, what I really enjoyed was both would have reasons for their opinions. Don't always see that on the show.

 

The lack of consistency this Season is frustrating beyond belief. At the point, in particular, Rumer has been hammered as too strong...now not strong enough. Counter-productive and wrong, imo.

 

Was pleasantly shocked to hear Kristyn volunteer a compliment about Maks' charisma on the dance floor. She said something about how noticable it was, and that it was missed. Wow.

Also, another post noted the Henry chat, read elsewhere Kristyn posted a reply on instagram she's heard several stories about Henry trading places with Sasha!

Edited April 30, 2015 by 2LeftFeet

[vibeology]

I was concerned going into this but overall, they were fine. It would be nice to see them detach a little from Mark with the "we're going home" and "we worked so hard" stuff, but I thought they gave their opinions about Mark/Willow and then mostly put it behind them to talk about the rest of the show. The week, in terms of judging, was crazy so I'm not surprised they had something to say. 

 

I was surprised they were so positive about Riker and Noah and thought Shirley's insight about both was fascinating. The stuff about how Noah has to work to balance his movement was something I had not thought about before, so good on her to bring it up. Also, I loved that she called BS on the "height difference" problem the judges raised. Lots of Ballroom couples have that sort of difference.

 

Loved that Corky thought Derek's dance was a hot mess. Its nice to see someone in that community say it. Its been a long time since I've heard someone say "Its about the celebrity." He has that relationship with Derek too, so for him to say it is a big deal.

 

I do really wish they had covered the dance off dances. I wanted to hear Shirley and Corky talk technique especially for Rumer's foxtrot and both Salsas. What I really got out of this is I get why Shirley Ballas was never hired to judge this show since she can be such a wildcard, but its a shame because she'd go in when it comes to the dancing at a level none of the current judges would ever do.

[anony mouse]

 

I do really wish they had covered the dance off dances. I wanted to hear Shirley and Corky talk technique especially for Rumer's foxtrot and both Salsas. What I really got out of this is I get why Shirley Ballas was never hired to judge this show since she can be such a wildcard, but its a shame because she'd go in when it comes to the dancing at a level none of the current judges would ever do.

 

Yeah, I really wish we could bump Carrie Ann and put Shirley in instead.

[coaster]

 

Corky cracked me up with the "I mean what's happening - a guy is singing, then Derek suddenly is and then he's moving around and what's happening."

Yes, I loved this. "Are we dancing in the chair or singing in the air?" Great stuff. :)

[Thadeeeyus]

A couple more comments.  I was disappointed when they all agreed that big production numbers are a good thing and implied that having just the couples onstage doing the same dance was boring.  I loved when the show was that way, and I'd think that the technicians would prefer it as well, so that they could more easily compare techniques. 

 

Didn't care for Shirley's comments about Henry.  Whatever happened was not part of the show and it sounded like it's something he had talked to her about personally.  I don't follow any of these people and know nothing about any behind-the-scenes gossip, but this seemed very much out of place, especially considering Mark's very pointed positive mentions of Henry a few weeks ago. 

 

I agreed with their comments on the lack of consistency on things like rules on the lifts changing depending on the couple, like Derek not being criticized for use of the troupe when others are, etc.  That has to be the hardest things for the competitors to try and deal with, but it's one of the most expected things with this show.  Has there ever been any consistency? 

 

Don't understand their praise of Riker and Alison.  Shirley mentioned Riker's dance experience, but blew it off by saying "So, what?  A lot of people do".  Not ballroom, Shirley.  And I don't agree that Alison has gotten a lot better this season. 

 

 

[CED9]

Yeah, I really wish we could bump Carrie Ann and put Shirley in instead.

People lose their minds over Julianne being a judge, but would willingly put Maks or Shirley at the judges table. This confuses me.

[crowceilidh]

I don't lose my mind over the unfairness aspect of Julianne judging, I just don't like her when she opens her mouth.  For me, not true of Maks.  See?

[anony mouse]

People lose their minds over Julianne being a judge, but would willingly put Maks or Shirley at the judges table. This confuses me.

 

I don't mind Julianne. She grates sometimes, but overall, I like that she tries to give constructive criticism. Carrie Ann grates because she's so over the top, and then when she does pick something to criticize, it's something ridiculous. One flamboyant judge is enough, although at this point, I am getting tired of Bruno's schtick too. I'd do Shirley, Len, and then Julianne or maybe someone like Mary Murphy, for flamboyant but with actual chops.

[truthaboutluv]

People lose their minds over Julianne being a judge, but would willingly put Maks or Shirley at the judges table. This confuses me.

 

Really...because I think it's quite obvious.

 

Speaking of Julianne though, I like that Shirley gave her her props as a judge. I've said I think she's doing a good job but the fact is some will always negatively judge her because "well Derek..." My favorite is how she still gets accused at least once every week of being biased for and overscoring Derek. In my opinion, Julianne is one of the few who gives pointed criticisms in that she will not just say what she didn't like but add small bits of advice on how to improve. 

 

About the Henry situation, I personally have zero issues with Shirley mentioning it. Without knowing any of the parties personally, but going by Shirley's comment, I suspect that Henry might have wanted to make suggestions with the choreography, possibly add in things while he was working with Nastia, which bothered Derek who I've noted I think is very Type A and a control freak. So this became an issue.

 

And the fact is, I know some will view this as more of Derek's being egotistical and arrogant but the fact is he was the Pro and I think he would be well within his rights to not want his choreography messed with. That being said, I can see Henry getting irritated with being expected to simply do what he is told with no input.

Edited April 30, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Andiethewestie]

Sure Julianne can give constructive criticism, so does Bruno at times. But perception is reality. The woman has her dancesport cousin and her brother competing, so we see her bias every week, ever since week one when it was Erin who had to disclose Riker and his relationship to the Houghs. Any judge would have made that disclosure on their own, dumb reality show or not, You just do not judge your own family . Julianne would be fine to judge if her brother or her cousin were not in the competition.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[truthaboutluv]

She did not have to disclose anything because the show made a point of mentioning that Riker was related to her and Derek at the live announcement of the cast. It wasn't some big, dark, hidden secret. Tom even asked Riker when talking to the cast at the announcement if he'd gotten any advice from either of them. Anyone paying attention to the show already knew this before the season premiered.

 

As to the whole judging Derek, I fully admit that my opinion is likely a very unpopular one but I just can't get all up in arms about "ethics" and "fairness" of this when it is essentially an entertainment show. This isn't Blackpool - I just don't think it's that serious. Futhermore, Julianne is one judge out of four. Her points count for a 1/4 of Derek and whoever his partner's points are. And we know judges' points sometimes don't count for much on this show. If it did Chris and Robert still wouldn't be there while Willow's been eliminated. 

 

Again, I acknowledge that this is hardly a popular opinion, but I honestly don't care about Julianne being Derek's sister. Honestly, half the time I don't even focus on the fact that they're siblings when she's judging him and his celebrity. And I'll just throw out, that I totally don't think some would have the same reaction if it was someone else in that position instead of Julianne, who also had a relative competing on the show. But again, as we all know, all things tied to Derek is the worse thing ever. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[OakGoblinFly]

Sure Julianne can give constructive criticism, so does Bruno at times. But perception is reality. The woman has her dancesport cousin and her brother competing, so we see her bias every week, ever since week one when it was Erin who had to disclose Riker and his relationship to the Houghs. Any judge would have made that disclosure on their own, dumb reality show or not, You just do not judge your own family . Julianne would be fine to judge if her brother or her cousin were not in the competition.

 

 

I haven't seen an basis from Julianne this or any other week; unless you mean because people want to see it it will be there.

 

As far as disclosing Riker's cousin status - perhaps the show wanted Erin and not Julianne to mention it.

 

I don't mind Julianne on the panel, I think she's been a good addition ... this is a television show so I can look over the familial connections.  

[Andiethewestie]

If there is a judging panel, then the show should try to at least have unbiased judges, or not have judges at all. Regardless of it being a reality show or not, judging is supposed to be as close to unbiased as possible. It is not on this show. Anybody with half a brain would recuse themselves from the panel if there are family members being judged.  

Edited April 30, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[realdancemom]

I haven't watched AfterBuzz yet so I don't know what Shirley and Corky have said.  I have seen other AB shows with them and they always give good comments.  There was only one show last season where Shirley was really upset about Mark's scores (and knew Mark was too).  She was overbearing on that one.  But overall, I think she or Corky would be good DWTS judges.  But I think Anna, Jonathan, Mary (from SYTYCD), and other ballroom pros would be good.  CAI definitely needs to be replaced.

 

I think Julianne has been a good judge since she does give pointers for improvement.  There were times I didn't like her.  One is when she first made a guest judge appearance and made a comment to Mark & Christina Milian.  It was basically saying that Mark showboats.  But even that was helpful since she was telling Christina to dance more full out.  It was just the passiive aggressive way she said it.  I didn't think the comment that she made to Maks about phoning it in with Danica was helpful at all.  I also didn't think it was true.  I definitely did not agree with the 7 that she gave Rumer's jazz.  But then CAI also does screwy judging by giving an 8 to Rumer but a 10 for Noah this week.  Julianne's scores are usually in line with the other judges and really it's about the fanbase anyway.

 

I'm glad that others posted that Shirley or Corky mentioned Noah's balance issues.  I never even thought of that but it makes sense.  What I noticed about Noah is that he dances pretty well (not great) on his right side.  I noticed it this week and some other weeks. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by realdancemom

[Andiethewestie]

It is all fine that the show is finding a spot for Julianne after her movies tanked but she is a better dancer than a judge and should have come back as a dancer, maybe in the troupe until she gets back into form. Having her as a judge is just the wrong message to send to people who they are asking to vote.  

[Thadeeeyus]

It is all fine that the show is finding a spot for Julianne after her movies tanked but she is a better dancer than a judge and should have come back as a dancer, maybe in the troupe until she gets back into form. Having her as a judge is just the wrong message to send to people who they are asking to vote.  

 

Yes!  Julianne's presence as a judge still bugs me. I'm assuming that bringing her back as a pro would be an admittance of failure on her part in her efforts to follow her "real" passions of singing and acting, so that wasn't an option.  But yes, she should have been a regular pro dancer. I also would not want any Ballas to be on the judging panel, or Maks.  It's all too incestual.  That's just it.  Everyone is closely intertwined. Is it possible to have an unbiased judge with experience in ballroom?  Aren't they all part of the same cliques?  Hasn't Len worked with some of the pros in the past? 

 

But hey, would it really matter who the judges are?  I completely believe the judges are told who to pimp, what scores to give, etc, so does it really matter who the mouthpiece is? 

[majormama]

Julianne has bugged me a lot less than I feared. She does give specific constructive criticism and suggestions, which I like. Her scores have been in line with the other judges, so I can't really accuse her of any more bias than the general "show bias" that many believe is there. If she were giving Derek/Ryker 10s while the others gave 6s or lowballing competitors who otherwise scored high, then yeah, but if the whole judging panel is giving more or less the same score, I can't really find fault with it. Nor do I think she's pressuring the other judges to bring their scores in line with hers. If this were a serious competition, sure, it would be totally unethical. But for a light and fluffy reality show, I'm okay with it.

 

Topic: Yeah, I don't usually watch Afterbuzz, so I got nothing. Sorry.

[Uke]

Shirley really seemed on fire at the start of the show and barely let Corky get a word in edgewise. Thankfully she calmed down, or Corky cajoled her into calming down. I thought the comments about Noah's balance were interesting.  Disagreed completely about Riker and "this young lady" (Shirley couldn't remember Allison's name?). Re Rumer and Val, I think Shirley's opinion was somewhat colored by her affection for Val. Re Henry, I didn't think Shirley was throwing shade.  She just said that Henry didn't want to be "anyone's 2nd dog's body" (?) which I think means 2nd fiddle (?) or he didn't want to be the unheard, unseen guy doing only as he's told behind the scenes. Perhaps Henry was feeling disrespected.  I haven't re-watched the show to get Sasha's exact wording but I recall him referring to himself as the stunt-double in the team.

 

I would never want Shirley on the show as a judge so long as Mark, Derek (or Hough relatives) are competing. Plus since she's trained most of the pros at one time or another and is personally invested in some of them, she's out as far as I'm concerned. I find Corky much more balanced and less ruled by his heart, but I still wouldn't want him judging either so long as Mark or Derek are competing.

[anony mouse]

YMMV, but I usually get the sense that Julianne is harder on Mark and Derek than some of the others. If there's any bias, it's that she expects more from them.

 

ETA: re, Corky as a judge. Even if you think he's balanced, he had an affair with Karina back in the day, along with a few other female students back in the day, so I wouldn't count on a lack of bias there.

Edited April 30, 2015 by starving artist

[Uke]

YMMV, but I usually get the sense that Julianne is harder on Mark and Derek than some of the others. If there's any bias, it's that she expects more from them.

 

ETA: re, Corky as a judge. Even if you think he's balanced, he had an affair with Karina back in the day, along with a few other female students back in the day, so I wouldn't count on a lack of bias there.

 

I'm not sure why this discussion has evolved into a discussion of Julianne but, after the backlash (and media stories putting her in a negative light) over her comment about Mark in Christina's season, I think Julianne realized snark wasn't the way to go and she's been more careful and measured in her comments. I disagree she's harder on Mark or Derek - I do think she makes an effort to be neutral.

 

As I stated, I would not want Corky as a judge. I'm not privy to who has had affairs with whom decades ago, but I'm pretty sure he's not the only one who has gone on to judge or been considered for judging on the show.

[truthaboutluv]

Well and Carrie Ann is a judge while Artem competes and they dated for like two years, many moons ago.

[Victura]

I was sort of surprised that Corky was the more mellow one here, but thought they both offered some interesting comments.

I believe it was Shirley who mentioned that they probably didn't want to have an all-female final. Of the shocking boots, I think Willow and Riker were the most likely, but since the top two front runners this season are both female, they didn't bother saving her, which they might've done had it been another season (like Chelsea Kane).

As for Henry, I don't think it's a big deal what Shirley said. It's perfectly natural to have creative differences, and some people simply prefer having more creative input in their work, rather than just being a dance stand-in. Not all differences of this nature have to be some big drama, and it's probably for the best that they made the switch simply to make it easier for all involved.

[truthaboutluv]

I forgot to mention something that Suri said which was way off. In her desperate bid to further kiss Shirley and Corky's ass, she was quick to try and jump on the whole "it's all so manipulated and set up", she claimed that Tom mentioned about Len being the decider in case of a tie, even before the judges' scores and comments, after Noah/Sharna and Robert/Kym's dance off. That's not true.

When both couples finished dancing, both Julianne and Bruno spoke and mentioned how close it was between the two and Sharna jokes out loud that could they just tie. At that point Tom clarifies that in case of a tie, then Len's vote is the deciding vote. I also wasn't sure why Shirley was so bothered by it not being stated from the beginning because for anyone who watches the show consistently, they already knew that. At least I did. It was mentioned and happened last season with Derek/Bethany versus Sadie/Mark.

Edited April 30, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Serendi]

I was amused by how much Corky and Shirley acted like still-married bickerers. I was also surprised by how much they still seem to be working together - I'd had the impression they kept their distance, but this was clearly not the case.

 

The thing about Karina and Corky is something I'd read, but when I tried to track it down a year or two ago online, it appeared that it came from a misread of something someone said. (I don't remember the details now, not going to search.)

 

I have no problem with Julianne or anyone else with connections judging; the ballroom world *is* interwoven like crazy. If you pick anyone at all who's a part of it, they'll have links (teaching/learning/related/affairs etc.) with nearly everyone else. Julianne does a good job IMO of giving something people can *use*, and this is rare with the other three. 

 

A "dogsbody" is a British term that essentially means a go-fer - the person who does whatever boring thing someone else assigns them.