S02.E07: The Writing On The Wall

[Sandman]

Yeah, Ward was looking all kinds of Unabomber sketchy, but Tripp has a clown beard.

He sees Welder dude's train set is magically cured?

Dude, it's a REALLY good train set.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Sandman

[kennyab]

Any ideas on how they can introduce Attilan so far ahead of the movie? Presumably finding the city will be the season finale in 2015. The Inhumans movie isn't due out till 2018. I'm not disputing it is Attilan, just wondering what everyone's thoughts are as to how they'll handle it, with the 3 year gap.

 

My guess is that we'll find out about the Inhumans, but we're not going to meet the Royal Family or anything like that. Perhaps Attilan's been abandoned and there's been an Inhuman diaspora. That would allow the show to introduce the concept and meet some (non-royal) Inhumans along the way, allowing the movie to focus on what Black Bolt and Co have been doing. Or maybe they track down where it's supposed to be only to discover a few traces of the Inhuman civilization, maybe a couple of stragglers to explain their history, but that the city itself has moved (which it does from time to time).

[Glory]

Any ideas on how they can introduce Attilan so far ahead of the movie? Presumably finding the city will be the season finale in 2015. The Inhumans movie isn't due out till 2018. I'm not disputing it is Attilan, just wondering what everyone's thoughts are as to how they'll handle it, with the 3 year gap.

I suspect that the finale of SHIELD will lead right into Avengers 2 which is due out in May. That then gives us another full season of SHIELD before Captain America 3 (May 2016). There may or may not be any Ant-Man tie-ins in the meantime, but I think not. I think there is plenty of time and lots of space to introduce some Inhumans storylines while saving the bulk of it for their own movie. 

 

Actually, I envision Coulson and Fury together at the end of season 2 of SHIELD saying something like, "We need the Avengers" and then Avengers 2 starts off with the two of them rounding up the team. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I suspect that the finale of SHIELD will lead right into Avengers 2 which is due out in May.

 

The odd part is that AoS has 22 episodes ordered for Season 2.  But since AoS goes off the ABC schedule on Nov. 24 after 9 episodes and comes back on Mar 3, 2015, they will only be up to 18 aired episodes (unless they show double episodes at some point) after the winter break until Avengers 2 comes out on May 1 when there will be some big MCU game-changing reveal and AoS adjusts accordingly.  So I'm dreading another slow-burn season that really goes no where until Avengers 2 -- and that Skye's dad and the obelisk are just filler until then.

[kennyab]

The odd part is that AoS has 22 episodes ordered for Season 2.  But since AoS goes off the ABC schedule on Nov. 24 after 9 episodes and comes back on Mar 3, 2015, they will only be up to 18 aired episodes (unless they show double episodes at some point) after the winter break until Avengers 2 comes out on May 1 when there will be some big MCU game-changing reveal and AoS adjusts accordingly.  So I'm dreading another slow-burn season that really goes no where until Avengers 2 -- and that Skye's dad and the obelisk are just filler until then.

 

I'm not really worried about that this time around. The Winter Soldier was about SHIELD. There's no indication that Age of Ultron really has anything to do with SHIELD -- at this point, Nick Fury's working as a free agent. My guess is that the changes have more to do with the inter-team dynamics of the Avengers and the public's view of superheroes. Considering that SHIELD is already mistrusted, I can't envision it having too much of an impact on the show. I think that MAoS is really in its own sandbox now, getting to move forward with its own stories.

[KirkB]

Age of Ultron doesn't seem to have anything to do with Attilan or the Inhumans either, so AoS will probably have that playground all to themselves until an Inhumans movie comes out, or maybe Guardians 2. As for them finding Attilan on a TV budget, they never have to actually find the city itself. Maybe they eventually track down the coordinates

(probably somewhere in the Himalayas) only to find it gone. The season ends with a report that something odd was detected on the moon.

[APSimpson]

Question: Why?  After all he's done, there is NO going back.  He's done nothing to deserve staying on the team.  In any way.  They'd be stupid to let him back on, and the whole team knows that.

No real reason other than I like him. I liked him as a member of the team and as a good guy. I realize that the differences between Ward and the team are irreconcilable at this point. And you're right, Ward did some horrible things, and the team isn't going to welcome him back as a member. I suppose I was thinking more in terms of something happening where the team was forced to accept Ward back. That a greater threat lurks where the team might even need Ward. 

 

Another thing I miss about Ward being a good guy is his fight scenes. I'm sure we'll get plenty with him as a bad guy, but I liked his fight scenes as an agent of Shield because it showed the muscle Shield has from a male protagonist standpoint. Having May and Ward as the team's two main combatants was a nice balance.

 

Also, I miss Ward and Fitz' then burgeoning friendship that now we'll probably never get to see advance. Fitz has Mac now, so that's good, but there was something about how Fitz and Ward interacted that I found charming, sort of a male bonding between two opposite guys.

 

At the end of the day, here's how I feel about Ward: despite his evil acts, I don't think he was ever loyal to Hydra. I believe he was loyal to Garrett, and with Garrett out of the picture, Ward is free. Even though the team won't accept him back, I think Ward will work to help the team in his own way. He loves Skye, but I think he has some loyalty to Coulson, too. Ward delivered Bakshi to the team and the tape said "For Coulson." Sure, a cat bringing in a dead bird, but I've had cats that have brought me dead birds in real life and I always took it as an act of provision and respect. In an episode last season, Victoria Hand was musing why all this trouble was being done to save a single agent and she said something along the lines of "no agent is worth that" and then Ward said: "Coulson is." I think Ward was being sincere. I think Ward was a victim of his abusive family and then Garrett, and that despite the very bad things that he's done, I don't think Ward is purely evil but someone that is a free agent who will play hard for whatever team he's on. He was on Garrett's team but that's over, so now I think he wants to play for Coulson again.

[kitlee625]

I agree that Ward was loyal to Garrett, but that doesn't make it okay what he did. Plus I think he's only gotten creepier since leaving Hydra's employment. He told Skye that Hydra was better than SHIELD because Hydra didn't worry about silly things like right and wrong and not killing innocent people. Now he's threatening to blow up entire buildings to get what he wants, using a child and his mother as human shields, and stalking the woman he claims to love. And it seems like he has a plan involving his brother + giant tanks of gasoline + kitchen matches.

 

I also don't think that he wants to "play for Coulson" again. Coulson interrogated him for weeks, and Ward was only interested in manipulating the situation so that he could manipulate Skye. All of those interrogation scenes between Ward and Skye were about Ward manipulating Skye, not about him trying to show what a good guy he is. He told Raina last season that everything he did was an act to gain their trust, and he mocked Coulson's desire to help people. So I don't buy that good guy Ward was the real Ward, or that he is desperate to help Coulson, and I really don't think that the team should either.

 

I will add that all of this makes me interested in him as a character. It makes him unpredictable and gives him creepily interesting layers. But even though I think he's interesting, that doesn't mean that I want him back on the team, flirting with Skye and playing board games with Fitz.

Edited November 14, 2014 by kitlee625

[KirkB]

Also, I miss Ward and Fitz' then burgeoning friendship that now we'll probably never get to see advance. Fitz has Mac now, so that's good, but there was something about how Fitz and Ward interacted that I found charming, sort of a male bonding between two opposite guys.

 

I just wanted to respectfully disagree on this one point. I don't think Ward and Fitz HAD a friendship, burgeoning or otherwise. Pretty much everything Ward did in the first season was to get closer to Coulson and his people so he could feed info to Garrett. He didn't care about Fitz, he just acted like it. He saved Simmons by jumping out of the plane to make himself look like a hero. He slept with May so she would on some level let her guard down around him (that didn't work out so well). With the possible exception of his feelings for Skye, 'cause even crazy villains can find love, I don't think anything we saw from Ward until the reveal was actually real.

Edited November 14, 2014 by KirkB

[Jack Kerouac]

Sure, a cat bringing in a dead bird, but I've had cats that have brought me dead birds in real life and I always took it as an act of provision and respect.

 

Actually, it means they don't think you are smart enough or tough enough to do it for yourself. They are helping you out because they think you're useless! :)

[Jenniferbug]

Which for a cat is the most sincere expression of love- "I think you're useless but I don't want you to die. Have this dead thing." :-)

[APSimpson]

I agree that Ward was loyal to Garrett, but that doesn't make it okay what he did. Plus I think he's only gotten creepier since leaving Hydra's employment. He told Skye that Hydra was better than SHIELD because Hydra didn't worry about silly things like right and wrong and not killing innocent people. Now he's threatening to blow up entire buildings to get what he wants, using a child and his mother as human shields, and stalking the woman he claims to love. And it seems like he has a plan involving his brother + giant tanks of gasoline + kitchen matches.

 

Having a conscience is one of the things that makes us human -- having humanity and empathy for others. I couldn't imagine what it must be like to not have one; I wouldn't want to know, but looking at it logically, someone without a conscience isn't going to be slowed down by things that someone with a conscience would be. I think that's what Ward was getting at: that Hydra wasn't going to be burdened by things that would make a good person hesitate. One of the reasons I'm such a Superman fan is because he would always stop to save people; that was important to him, and the bad guys would sometimes exploit that. It's harder to be good, and that's why I thought good Ward was interesting just the way he was, even though we know in retrospect that it was all an act. I think that's what Ward was trying to point out to Skye: that Hydra was "better" because of not worrying about right and wrong. This is all spy business, after all, and in spy business people kill and get killed. They all know what they signed up for. Ward, even with Shield, was a trained killer. He was the one who could make the "tough call." Didn't Shield kill two guards when they went to the Guest House and found the blue alien? Ward betraying the team is different, I know, but I can forgive him because this is fictional television, I like his character, and I think there is some license at times to kill in the business these people are in. 

 

I think maybe Ward realizes now that Coulson won't accept him back, so Ward is being defiant, maybe even the jilted lover. He even seemed a bit cocky in that phonecall to Skye there at the end. Ward knows what he's up against, too, knows Shield is after him, so he has to do things like threaten to blow people up. It worked. I'm looking forward to the reunion with big bro. ;)

[APSimpson]

I just wanted to respectfully disagree on this one point. I don't think Ward and Fitz HAD a friendship, burgeoning or otherwise. Pretty much everything Ward did in the first season was to get closer to Coulson and his people so he could feed info to Garrett. He didn't care about Fitz, he just acted like it. He saved Simmons by jumping out of the plane to make himself look like a hero. He slept with May so she would on some level let her guard down around him (that didn't work out so well). With the possible exception of his feelings for Skye, 'cause even crazy villains can find love, I don't think anything we saw from Ward until the reveal was actually real.

 

Fair enough. I guess it was more the idea of them being friends that appealed to me. The actors are friends in real life, too, so maybe that swayed me a bit. The episode The Hub is one of my favorites and I liked the way the two characters came together in that. I don't think Ward is completely without a heart, though. He didn't shoot Buddy the dog. He gave Fitz and Simmons a chance at survival instead of shooting them. He was undercover for Garrett but I don't think every detail of ward's interaction with the team was completely fake. I think he's redeemable, but that doesn't mean they're going to do that, and it would take some mountains to be moved to do it, but anything's possible in TV Land.

 

From Previously TV's #1 Ward fan! LOL

[KirkB]

I realize it's a minor point but it's been bugging me since the episode. I get the guy writing/carving the symbols on his arms and legs and chest, but how the hell did he manage to put them on his back?

Edited November 15, 2014 by KirkB

[kitlee625]

I assume that he kind of guided people like that tattoo artist in the previous episode, but I agree that that would take a lot of flexibility. Maybe GH-325 made him super bendy?

[romantic idiot]

Or he guided verbally...

[Sandman]

Do we know that Ward didn't shoot Buddy the dog? I thought the consensus was that he did, but I honestly can't recall now.

[KirkB]

From what I recall the consensus was that the dog did get shot, it was just kind of split as to who did it. A lot of people thought Ward sent the dog away so he didn't have to look it in the eye when he shot it while others thought he couldn't do it but Garett did.

Edited November 16, 2014 by KirkB

[Alcorn91]

After watching this episode, I have a couple of questions about the revelation of what the symbols mean...

 

1) The first time we saw the symbols was in early season 1, when Ward used Akela Amador's eye implant to find them in that Russian factory. Who drew this set of symbols? Was one of the TAHITI patients given a new identity as a worker in a Russian factory? Or is this just an artifact of whatever plan the writers initially had for this storyline? Related: Akela was being controlled via the eye implant by Centipede/Garrett. How did Centipede know about the symbols, and what was their intention with them? Garrett didn't seem to have any prior awareness of them when he started carving. Another detail we're supposed to forget?

 

2) Not so much a question as a detail I thought was odd: when Raina grabs the Obelisk/Diviner in episode 2, the symbols appear on its surface. If the symbols are just a top-down representation of the city (presumably Attilan), created by the inability of the human TAHITI patients to properly process the GH-325 alien's memories of the 3-D blueprint, why would they appear on the alien Obelisk in the same top-down fashion? This is harder to explain as a continuity error, since the relevant scenes only occurred a few episodes apart. Hopefully this gets explained one way or another.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?

[kennyab]

There are many different types of writing systems. Here are Earth, we've developed different ways of representing the spoken word in graphical form, including alphabets and syllabaries. And that's not to mention codified systems for representing numbers, blueprints, wiring diagrams, etc. Based on seeing the symbols elsewhere, I think it'd be fair to say that they're more than just the memory of the city trying to make itself known. They're probably being expressed through a writing system native to the alien. Perhaps the race has developed a writing system that can be used to encode both language and spatial information. I don't think it's that far-fetched. We're accustomed to integrating systems of mathematical representation and language representation in a pretty seamless manner.

Edited November 17, 2014 by kennyab

[Alcorn91]

Excellent point, didn't think of it that way. I guess that could also explain where the Russian set of symbols came from. Skye's dad obviously knows about the symbols via the Obelisk; maybe him or another member of his group (race?) were the source of the symbols. Still curious about the Centipede/HYDRA angle, though.

[Kel Varnsen]

It is kind of funny, last time I saw Brian Van Holt on TV with a tattoo, he was getting it burned off by angry bikers (Sons of Anarchy). Last time I saw him as a special ops guy he was fighting and getting beaten by Michael Weston on Burn Notice.

 

I'm not really worried about that this time around. The Winter Soldier was about SHIELD. There's no indication that Age of Ultron really has anything to do with SHIELD -- at this point, Nick Fury's working as a free agent. 

I think it will. The Avengers trailer showed that Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch will be in the movie. The only other time we saw them was when they were in the custody of Hydra and Baron Strucker (who was name dropped in this episode). So the movie might not directly affect the Agents of Shield, but I think for sure it will lead to some changes at HYDRA.

[kennyab]

It is kind of funny, last time I saw Brian Van Holt on TV with a tattoo, he was getting it burned off by angry bikers (Sons of Anarchy). Last time I saw him as a special ops guy he was fighting and getting beaten by Michael Weston on Burn Notice.

I think it will. The Avengers trailer showed that Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch will be in the movie. The only other time we saw them was when they were in the custody of Hydra and Baron Strucker (who was name dropped in this episode). So the movie might not directly affect the Agents of Shield, but I think for sure it will lead to some changes at HYDRA.

 

The thing about Hydra is that it's a very loosely coupled organization -- hence the whole "Cut off one head..." thing. The real world example is terrorist organizations in the Middle East, which have cells that work fairly independently from one another. So even when (really, if) Whitehall or Strucker are defeated, Hydra as a whole will keep on churning.

[Jack Kerouac]

The most interesting part of the episode for me was when Mack asked Fitz if his memories were still there and did he just need a reboot. The look on Fitz's face was one of surprise and "Hey, wait a minute!"

 

Methinks Fitz is going to be looking into something to do with rebooting his brain.

[ChelseaNH]

If Fitz does "reboot" his brain, it would be a handwave.  The point about memories being present but the connection being lost -- it might not apply to Fitz's brain.  In his case, lack of oxygen would lead to brain cells dying.  If those cells were the connectors, then he would need to re-establish new connections -- which is what rehabilitation therapy would work on doing, no handwavy science-fu needed.  But if the lost cells had the information, rather than the connection to the information, then the information was lost when the cells died.

 

Also, a memory rewrite could overwrite the old memories, rather than implant new memories and change the connections, so it's a leap to assume that Coulson's old memories are still there to be accessed.  But it turns out their assumption was correct, 'cause it's TV.

[Jack Kerouac]

Also, a memory rewrite could overwrite the old memories, rather than implant new memories and change the connections, so it's a leap to assume that Coulson's old memories are still there to be accessed.  But it turns out their assumption was correct, 'cause it's TV.

 

Well, yes. TV rehabilitation vs real rehabilitation is a joke. They could use a magical, er ... scientific 'brain reconnector' to fix up Fitz super quick!

[blackwing]

I'm so confused.  Coulson recognises the symbols as an overhead view of that model in the wherever he was strung up place.  He says it's a city.  Why are people saying it's Attilan?  I think I might have fell asleep or missed it if it was said on show.

 

I am thankful these stupid symbol things are hopefully done.  Dragged on for way too long.

[kennyab]

I'm so confused.  Coulson recognises the symbols as an overhead view of that model in the wherever he was strung up place.  He says it's a city.  Why are people saying it's Attilan?  I think I might have fell asleep or missed it if it was said on show.

 

It wasn't said on the show, that's what people (including me) are running with as the most likely possibility. Between the blue alien (Kree), Skye being found in China (Attilan's located -- sometimes -- in the Himalayas), Raina being obsessed with gaining powers, it all points in that direction.

[blackwing]

I thought Attilan was on the Blue Area of the Moon?  I guess it might change for TV/movie purposes.  If we see Attilan it'd be cool if we saw actual Inhumans with actual powers.  I know the Inhumans movie is a few years away but I'm especially eager to see the interpretation of Crystal.

[kennyab]

I thought Attilan was on the Blue Area of the Moon?  I guess it might change for TV/movie purposes.  If we see Attilan it'd be cool if we saw actual Inhumans with actual powers.  I know the Inhumans movie is a few years away but I'm especially eager to see the interpretation of Crystal.

 

Attilan was originally in the Himalayas. Then they transported the city to the Blue Area because of pollution on earth. I'm not exactly sure of the current location, it's moved a number of times in the comics.

 

Edited because my spellchecker things "Attilan" should be "Italian." Thats-a some good-a Terrigen Mists!

Edited November 18, 2014 by kennyab

[Kromm]

It wasn't said on the show, that's what people (including me) are running with as the most likely possibility. Between the blue alien (Kree), Skye being found in China (Attilan's located -- sometimes -- in the Himalayas), Raina being obsessed with gaining powers, it all points in that direction.

Don't forget the whole implication that Skye's wacky Dad (and by implication Skye herself) are not totally human, and the fact that Skye was more compatible with the Kree blood than the others. Attilan is

occupied of course by the products of alien genetic manipulation who are part human and part Kree.  Ergo, Skye, as a descendant of them, wouldn't be as adversely affected by Kree blood as a good ol' regular human.  Connecting all of the dots, some kind of road map back to Attilan makes an odd sort of sense, although it's a bit of a puzzle why it would be passed on in the blood of a Kree, since they are the progenitor of the Inhumans and Attilan and not the result.

 

(last part spoiler tagged because while the show is definitely headed in this direction, what's under that spoiler area is something they may be holding back to reveal as a surprise on the TV show viewers who don't read the comics)

Edited November 18, 2014 by Kromm

[dusang]

And all the hands that raised when she asked if anyone wanted to leave before she got started.

 

I just rewatched The Winter Soldier and choose to believe that was a deliberate reference to Cap asking if anyone wanted to leave the elevator.

[LilJen]

To be honest I was a little disappointed with this episode. They had built the tension and urgency of Coulson and the crazy writing for so long, but the conclusion just felt anticlimactic. He sees Welder dude's train set is magically cured? Also every time they say in universe "it's all connected" I roll my eyes. Show don't tell, exposition fairies.

It just cracks me up to think: Coulson is going nuts, not sleeping, other guy is carving alien images into people and killing them, and all it took to cure them was to look at a choo-choo train set? Okay then.

[ChelseaNH]

They needed to see it in three dimensions, not just two.

[John Potts]

No idea who the Inhumans are (well, I knew they were comic book characters, but that's about it), but I'm glad the whole "Coulson feels compelled to carve the walls" plot has reached a resolution. And hey, now we have a race!

 

Glad to see that Ward has his own agenda and is neither being redeemed nor totally signed up with HYDRA (though it's of course possible that members of HYDRA are so dedicated to the idea of "The Strongest Survive" that random kidnapping are an everyday occurrence). OTOH, given that Ward was captured by the post HYDRA SHIELD, it doesn't look good for him to make it alone - he'll need all the Plot Armour he can muster!

 

Lantern7 I should consider Coulson to be an asshole, especially what he did with Skye, but I'm still on his side. I guess Clark Gregg is that good.

 

I give him props for the fact that, while he's prepared to do some pretty questionable things, he was prepared to have his subordinates torture him, which shows considerable dedication.