House Tyrell: Uprooted

[jellysalmon]

Worst words? Probably. Best females? Possibly. 

[Snowblack]

The political savvy of the Tyrells is amazing and frightening to behold.  I'm not sure if we credit the Queen of Thorns for that.  She's so blunt and genuine, it seems counterintuitive that she would be the one to teach her grandkids to be so fake.  And why don't the other youngsters (cousins maybe) seem to share Loras Aand Margaery's political astuteness?  In any case, the Tyrells are definitely going places.  They are the polar opposite of the Starks.

[ambi76]

Yeah, not sure what Olenna was yappering about. "Growing Strong" are some perfectly sneaky housewords for dem roses. As a gigantic Tyrell (especially Loras <3) fan I still consider Olenna to be one of the most overrated characters in fandom. That the showmakers push her as the "female Tywin" doesn't really endear her to me much either. She is good at putting the males of her family down, you have to give her that, though. Can't wait for Mace, my beloved Lord Oaf.

Edited April 9, 2014 by ambi76

[Constantinople]

I don't recall Loras ever showing much political astuteness.

His big mouth torpedoed the Tyrells' plan to marry him to Sansa, which is to say his big mouth lost the North for the Tyrells.

His reason for passing over Stannis in the line of succession was that Stannis had the personality of a lobster.

His grounds for supporting Renly appeared to be that Renly was a nice guy and he was Loras's boyfriend.  Jaime, Olenna and Littelfinger all thought Renly was a lightweight.  Even Loras had to point out to Renly, on more than one occassion, that things don't just happen, you have to work it.  Yet that never seemed to make Loras wonder about Renly's limitations.

Loras couldn't even hold his own in a verbal sparring match with Catelyn Stark

Loras: Has your son marched against Tywin Lannister yet?
Catelyn: I do not sit on my son's war councils, and if I did, I would not share his strategies with you.
Loras: If Robb Stark wants a pact with us, he should come himself, not hide behind his mother's skirts.
Catelyn: My son is fighting a war, not playing at one.

Even Renly smiled at that.

[ambi76]

Even Renly smiled at that.

Margaery didn't. She wasn't pleased at all that Renly laughed Catelyn's passive aggressive-ness off, which I found quite interesting at the time.

And in Loras defence he had to take Randyll Tarly's place here for the show.

Edited April 9, 2014 by ambi76

[yellowfred]

His reason for passing over Stannis in the line of succession was that Stannis had the personality of a lobster.

His grounds for supporting Renly appeared to be that Renly was a nice guy and he was Loras's boyfriend.  Jaime, Olenna and Littelfinger all thought Renly was a lightweight.  Even Loras had to point out to Renly, on more than one occassion, that things don't just happen, you have to work it.  Yet that never seemed to make Loras wonder about Renly's limitations.

His reasoning might have been a little more complicated than that.  They've mentioned that the family's plan has always been for Margaery to become the Queen, and Renly was their best option for that.  Stannis was already married and probably wouldn't have been all that amenable to putting his wife aside for Margaery.  Joffrey was engaged and, at the point Loras and Renly fled King's Landing, they had every reason to think that the Lannisters would need to preserve that engagement to appease the North (that was before Ned was arrested and then executed).

Besides, if Renly hadn't been shadowbaby'd, their plan could have actually worked.

[Lady S.]

Yeah, Loras has some political astuteness, maybe more than Mace, or maybe not. But the Queens of Thorns (it took me way too long to get the roses having thorns reference there) is the real plotter and I don't think she gives the menfolk the same trust she gives Marg. Hopefully she learned a lesson about only letting Loras know what he absolutely needs to only when he absolutely needs to know it. But then Littlefinger had to find out somehow so Sansa could marry Tyrion and the plot would move along.

[jellysalmon]

As much as I love show Margaery, one of the fun things about the books was not knowing where she fell on the smart/stupid, genuine/fake, innocent/experienced scales. You see her from the POVs of Sansa, Catelyn and Cersei and all of them have very different opinions/perceptions of her. Her dialogue is often wonderfully ambiguous so you could see Cersei and Sansa interpreting it in opposite ways.

[CherithCutestory]

I think Loras has a good amount of political astuteness. I think anything he said to Catelyn can be taken as seriously as him giving Sansa the rose. That is, not at all. He is just playing the part of the dashing young knight. Trash talking the other sides. In the end, it wasn't his decision to support Renly (his father had a say) and even if it was we know for a fact that it had little to nothing to do with Stannis's personality that attracted him to Renly.

I think his early scene with the Hound and the Mountain showed that. He knew when to try to back off and how to play the scene. In general, I think he is much like his sister. Just working the image the best he can. Of course, I doubt he is quite as smart.

And I think Olenna is very fond of him. Even if she trusts Margaery a bit more.

I also am not totally sure that Olenna is the ultimate plotter in the family. I think that is Mace and Olenna is mostly concerned with making sure his plots don't blow up too horribly. Sansa was all her, of course. But I think she mostly is just concerned that Joffrey doesn't hurt Margaery. Or that Loras doesn't end up hurting Joffrey for hurting Margaery.

She wasn't pleased at all that Renly laughed Catelyn's passive aggressive-ness off, which I found quite interesting at the time.

 

I liked that. And I think it is clear that the Tyrell's, in general, are the type that might tease each other but will not abide outsiders doing it.

Olenna's delight in Brienne was my favorite thing.

Edited April 12, 2014 by CherithCutestory

[ambi76]

I don't think Marg was pissed so much at Catelyn dissing her little bro (she seemed pretty miffed at Loras losing the melee though) but more at Renly for letting himself get walked all over by her.

I mean, I'm totally feeling for Mama Stark here. She is exhausted form a long journey south, her husband was executed, her children, especially Robb, are all in gods knows what kinds of danger, she came here for a war-alliance and ... those fuckers are having a party. One could be a little angry at that allright.

She still wants an alliance with those fuckers though, and her total lack of any kind of diplomacy thereafter is funny and tragic all the same. Refusing to call Renly King. Renly: Whatever. "Burning" his Lord Commander Loras. Renly: Hahaha, OMG good one! Insulting Renly's army overall more than once. First Time: Renly: Sigh, let's talk about this. It's only at "Summer Knights" that Renly is finally fed up and pretty much sends her to cool off.

Try something like that with Stannis or Joffrey, I dare you.^^

Edited April 12, 2014 by ambi76

[Lady S.]

I mean, I'm totally feeling for Mama Stark here. She is exhausted form a long journey south, her husband was executed, her children, especially Robb, are all in gods knows what kinds of danger, she came here for a war-alliance and ... those fuckers are having a party. One could be a little angry at that allright.

She still wants an alliance with those fuckers though, and her total lack of any kind of diplomacy thereafter is funny and tragic all the same. Refusing to call Renly King. Renly: Whatever. "Burning" his Lord Commander Loras. Renly: Hahaha, OMG good one! Insulting Renly's army overall more than once. First Time: Renly: Sigh, let's talk about this. It's only at "Summer Knights" that Renly is finally fed up and pretty much sends her to cool off.

Try something like that with Stannis or Joffrey, I dare you.^^

What's tragic about it when it doesn't affect her cause at all? It was Renly who'd be handling the alliance, and Renly didn't mind the discourtesy. Even the knights of summer line didn't make much difference, and

if we're bringing in character substitutions onscreen, you should know she didn't say that to Renly's face in the book.

Robb wasn't going to get a sweeter deal than the one Renly offered to Cat, but any one of his men would have been worse diplomats. (And technically she did try disrespect with Stannis in the parley but that's a pointless quibble.)

I like the mention above of Loras giving the rose to Sansa, they probably were aiming for ingratiation with Ned before he shot Renly down. But what are your thoughts on a possible Stark/Tyrell alliance after Renly died? That's the fantasy of Robb fans, but I've never been sure. Wouldn't making Margaery the Queen always be the #1 priority? Sure, they tried to get the claim to Winterfell, but she was easy pickings right in front of them. Adding more lands to their other prizes is different from only wanting the North, not the Iron Throne.

[MarySNJ]

Yeah, not sure what Olenna was yappering about. "Growing Strong" are some perfectly sneaky housewords for dem roses. As a gigantic Tyrell (especially Loras <3) fan I still consider Olenna to be one of the most overrated characters in fandom. That the showmakers push her as the "female Tywin" doesn't really endear her to me much either. She is good at putting the males of her family down, you have to give her that, though. Can't wait for Mace, my beloved Lord Oaf.

My first reaction to "Growing Strong" was "builds healthy bones and teeth" like an ad for milk or something, so I most amused when Olenna mocked at it.

[Independent George]

My first reaction to "Growing Strong" was "builds healthy bones and teeth" like an ad for milk or something, so I most amused when Olenna mocked at it.

I just thought it was an elaborate wiener joke.

[Lady S.]

I think Finn Jones would agree.

[sev]

My first reaction to "Growing Strong" was "builds healthy bones and teeth" like an ad for milk or something, so I most amused when Olenna mocked at it.

Exactly, like "Drink your milk and grow strong", it implies that they are less than fully strong. Other houses are preparing for winter, and roaring, and raging with fury, while the Tyrells are still growing up.

Edited April 13, 2014 by sev

[CherithCutestory]

Cat had no trouble showing disrespect to Stannis.

But what are your thoughts on a possible Stark/Tyrell alliance after Renly died? That's the fantasy of Robb fans, but I've never been sure. Wouldn't making Margaery the Queen always be the #1 priority?

I am sure Cat wishes that too.

If the Lannisters didn't want her they might have gone for it. Stannis would never have been an option for marraige. Better Queen of the North than not at all. But it would never have been a first option. Personally, I think Stark/Tyrell alliance just might happen way down the line. In the form of Jon/Margaery if he has any claim to being king.

The only person I would bet money on being in power at the end of this show is Margaery Tyrell. The only person smart enough to win the love and loyalty of the people of King's Landing. (Historically, if you held London you held the crown.)

Honestly, I don't even believe the Tyrells wanted Winterfell or the North at all with the Sansa marraige. They rule the most fertile lands and have one of the most beautiful homes in all the seven kingdoms. From their perspective the North must seem like a barren wasteland filled with a conquering army. It was Olenna's plan. And she seemd more about defensive strategy than offensive. She wasn't on board with joining Renly. And seemed less than pleased at Mace's insistence about the Joffrey wedding.

I think they just didn't want a Lannister or anyone else to have the claim and double their lands more than they wanted it themselves. If Robb had wolf cubs and they knew Brann and Rikkon were alive they would have been fine with just sweet but dim Sansa. If they were all erradicated they would have pressed the claim to prevent anyone else. I think.

I think "Growing Strong" works great for them. They started out as nothing. And as all the noble houes are dying around them they are still growing strong. "Winter is coming" great. It came. Now what? "Ours is the fury" cool. Yours was the crown. "Hear me roar" that is literally all we ever hear. Your constant roaring at each other. Meanwhile here are the Tyrells just continuing to grow strong.

Edited April 14, 2014 by CherithCutestory

[Lady S.]

Yeah, that's along my thinking. The Lannisters were in no position to turn them away, so why care about Robb, who could offer less. I think Marg would be as bored by Robb or Jon as Loras would be with Sansa, though.

Congrats to Ser Loras for tonight's burn on the Kingslayer.

[dramachick]

Edited April 14, 2014 by sukeyna

[jellysalmon]

My god I loved Margaery's wedding hair. No wonder Cersei was jealous.

[sev]

^ Her whole attire was marvellous: the tail of the dress made of fabric shaped in the form of dozens of roses, and then silvery thorns reaching up her torso. The dress hugged the actress curves quite nicely.

[Izzyboy]

^ I don't mind swimming in the shallow end of the pool and admitting that I was quite pleased when I heard that Natalie Dormer was cast as Margaery.  I was a big fan of her *ahem* talents on The Tudors...

[jellysalmon]

I haven't seen The Tudors so I was a bit worried that they were aging her up so much, but she has been a delight so far.

Edited April 15, 2014 by jellysalmon

[joliefaire]

I loved her in the Tudors, was so thrilled when her casting for GoT was announced.

[Lady S.]

They've never said a number, so I like to think she was only aged up a few years, not to Dormer's actual age. The same deal as with Kit and Richard, she's not that noticeably older.

[Constantinople]

I can understand why Lady O would want to off Joff.

 

I can't understand why she would conspire with Littlefinger to commit regicide.

 

"Is there an idiot in any village who trusts Littlefinger" - Tyrion Lannister.

 

Plus, didn't the Tyrells make any effort to find out how the Loras-Sansa wedding plan was uncovered?

[Lady S.]

 

Plus, didn't the Tyrells make any effort to find out how the Loras-Sansa wedding plan was uncovered?

The Lannisters never actually outed their plot, so unless Loras admitted to blabbing, it just comes off as a case of bad timing. The Lannisters have even more reason to want to get the key to the North wed, they could have been locking her down as a preventative measure against unknown hypothetical suitors.

 

But I agree that allying with Littlefinger is one of those things that doesn't translate to screen well since Littlefinger is played as unsubtly as possible.

[Constantinople]

The Lannisters never actually outed their plot, so unless Loras admitted to blabbing, it just comes off as a case of bad timing. The Lannisters have even more reason to want to get the key to the North wed, they could have been locking her down as a preventative measure against unknown hypothetical suitors.

Possibly, but it's a little odd that suddenly, in the midst of planning the wedding of the century between Joffrey & Margaery, the Lannisters suddenly want a quickie, Vegas marriage for Sansa when previously they hadn't given her a thought since her engagement was broken, and the only other "Sansa" news was the Tyrell's plan to marry to her to Loras.

I'm not saying they should have found out about Littlefinger's part in scotching Loras-Sansa, but I'd think at least someone would wonder about the timing.

[dramachick]

Living Eulogy for Lady Olenna Tyrell

 

She was the temptress. The sultry siren. She asked no quarter of the lords and none was given. She learned no lessons. She acknowledged no mistakes. She was as stubborn a dame as ever stumbled out of The Reach to snatch a king's last breath. She brooked no authority, she did what she wanted to do and she said what she wanted to say and, in the end, she brought men to their knees. She was natural woman.

 

Despite her increasing years, her slowing of step, and her constant carping about money -- a true femme fatale. Lady Olenna, I say this seriously: If I was laying there dead on some Westeros street corner, I'd want it to be you, standing over me, vowing my revenge.

 

Because, sister, when you were good, you were a bad bitch.

 

 

[VCRTracking]

LOL! 

 

I think if anybody else was cast as Lady Olenna they would have wrote that particular backstory. The general public had to know Diana Rigg in her prime was even hotter than Margaery!

[Independent George]

Living Eulogy for Lady Olenna Tyrell

 

She was the temptress. The sultry siren. She asked no quarter of the lords and none was given. She learned no lessons. She acknowledged no mistakes. She was as stubborn a dame as ever stumbled out of The Reach to snatch a king's last breath. She brooked no authority, she did what she wanted to do and she said what she wanted to say and, in the end, she brought men to their knees. She was natural woman.

 

Despite her increasing years, her slowing of step, and her constant carping about money -- a true femme fatale. Lady Olenna, I say this seriously: If I was laying there dead on some Westeros street corner, I'd want it to be you, standing over me, vowing my revenge.

 

Because, sister, when you were good, you were a bad bitch.

 

Shiiit Sukeyna. If you was laying there dead on some Westeros corner, Olenna's probably the one who put you there. 

Edited May 2, 2014 by Independent George

[Constantinople]

Margaery looked shocked during Tyrion's trial.  Not in a way that would arouse attention, or that couldn't be explained by the testimony.  But still shocked, to those, such as the viewers, who know who really killed Joffrey and how.

 

Part of the shock was from how Tyrion was being treated by his own family and how dysfunctional the Lannisters are.  That trial explained a lot about Joffrey and actually made him look better than before in comparison to his relatives.  Instead of being 2x or 3x as bad as Cersei or Tywin, now he's only as bad, or perhaps 1.5x as bad

 

But I wonder if part of the shock was due to Sansa being implicated as Tyrion's co-conspirator.  Margaery is a player, and thus saw how a marriage between Sansa and Loras would have benefited her family.  But I also think she genuinely liked Sansa and thought of her as a friend.  Implicating Sansa wasn't actually necessary to condemn Tyrion.

 

So I wonder if part of Margaery's shock was her wondering if Olenna knew, or expected, Sansa would be implicated.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Constantinople

[Conan Troutman]

Sansa was carried away immediately after Joffrey started choking. Plus she knew about the necklace (I think). So she had to know that Sansa being blamed was part of the plan. I can't imagine that she was even surprised by it. But maybe it wasn't planned at all for the necklace to return and the Fool's role in it to be unveiled/confirmed. Maybe LF was supposed to keep his mouth shut (at which he already failed badly when he told Sansa) and just bury the Fool and the necklace, but instead decided to ship them over to the Lannisters. So her reaction could be more like "maybe it wasn't the best of ideas to conspire with *that* guy", like it really should be.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Conan Troutman

[Lady S.]

Marg doesn't even know that Olenna conspired with anybody, so I agree that part of her reaction shots had to do with Sansa. I believe the first close-up on the Tyrells came when Pycelle started mentioning Sansa. I do think Olenna knowingly framed Sansa, thinking making her an attainted regicide should reduce her political value as a reward for Littlefinger. Can't use the key to the north to become king of the ashes if you're keeping her identity secret, right? If he and Sansa feel free to tell the truth and want to clear her name, Olenna should be worried by her disappearance. She was not, being cool as a cucumber when indicating her guilt to Margaery could very well point to everything going according to Olenna's plan. I admit this plot is convoluted, but deviousness and ruthlessness are the only way it makes one lick of sense. Can't brutally murder the king in public and expect no collateral damage.

[Conan Troutman]

I figured Olenna told Margaery the details afterwards offscreen, but of course it doesn't have to be that way. Maybe the conversation was simply over. Let's assume that's indeed the case her. 

 

Can't use the key to the north to become king of the ashes if you're keeping her identity secret, right?

 

 

I think it's more like "the Lannisters can't use the key to the North if she killed Joffrey" (a lot of speculation ahead...). 

I'm not sure if Olenna's got a long term plan to eventually betray the Lannisters (or wait until they inevitably self destruct) and get Margaery in control of the Iron Throne or if she simply wanted to get rid of Joffrey. But if it's the first, it makes perfect sense to weaken the Lannisters by ripping the key to the North right out of their fingers and, as a possible bonus, framing another Lannister with her. Yeah, she couldn't have known Joffrey would make Tyrion his cupbearer. But that wasn't necessary in any way. As long as Sansa was framed, Tyrion would automatically be a suspect, too. Him holding the poisoned cup was just icing on the pigeon pie. Maybe the plan isn't needlessly convoluted after all, but rather a bit complicated because every part of it is important.

 

I go one step further: Maybe LF wasn't just a short term partner in crime, but will be ally #1 once the Lannisters are out of the way, controlling the North (the Tyrells apparently won't mind if he "reveals" that he's got Sansa) and the Tyrells control the Iron Throne. They could even go a step further and marrying the possible (I highly doubt it will happen, but at least that could be the plan) offspring of creepy Robin and Sansa with Margaery and Tommen's. If it's a good idea to hop in bed with LF that way is an entirely different question, of course, and very well might come back to bite them.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Conan Troutman

[Lady S.]

I figured Olenna told Margaery the details afterwards offscreen, but of course it doesn't have to be that way. Maybe the conversation was simply over. Let's assume that's indeed the case her. 

Well, confessing in the garden was ridiculous enough, spelling out the entire plot is too much for even my suspension of disbelief. As much as Olenna trusts Marg as her protege, she deliberately withheld her plan before then, so why reveal more than Marg needs to know while they're both still in King's Landing? Saying she wasn't going to let her granddaughter marry a monster is enough information, for now, anyway. I had assumed before that scene that Margaery knew Olenna was going to rid her of Joffrey,

and I still think that was the case in the book for, among other reasons, the bride and groom drinking from the same goblet in the book version meaning Margie had to know when to stop drinking from it

, but what she knew beyond that was always up in the air. I don't know what Olenna's ultimate goals are, but I don't think she shares everything with anyone else either.

[Conan Troutman]

She certainly won't let the male part of the family in, and at least with Mace (but probably Loras, too) that's absolutely the right thing to do. And you're right, it also makes sense that she didn't let Margaery in before the trial, so that she could look surprised one more time.

But if Olenna did indeed broker an alliance with LF (instead of just getting the poison from him and taking Sansa away), Margaery will have to know about it at some point. And it might be best to tell her before she leaves KL. There's gotta be a place somewhere without spies, at least you can always whisper. Maybe we'll see this scene on sunday, as a farewell from Olenna (I hope we get to see her again, but it seems like she's played her role, at least for now).

Edited May 16, 2014 by Conan Troutman

[Pete Martell]

The idea of the Tyrells is brilliant, one of my favorite concepts for any house on this show, and most of their material in season 3 was terrific, but I can't say I've been thrilled with them this season.

 

I don't share the disdain for Natalie Dormer that some do (I was surprised at how many people were annoyed that she'd been submitted for Emmy consideration), but for me she's back to her season 2 struggling of how to play a character who schemes but is still inherently decent. It's very wide-eyed and put-on at times. 

 

Loras has all but vanished from the show. I get that there's no big story for him at this point, but they should have at least kept his presence known. Other than a wink wink with Oberyn (since they're both attracted to men),  and the spat with Jaime, he's been an extra.

 

It's more difficult to invest in turmoil at King's Landing when the only Tyrell we see is Mace the oaf.

[Gudzilla]

I also never understood the dislike some people have for Natalie Dormer.

 

The Tyrells were basically all extras after episode 3. At least they got to strike down the most noble child the gods ever put on this good earth. Oh and Margaery got to fill Tommen's spank bank.

[Advance35]

Well House Tyrell is in a VERY interesting and tricky position right now.    Those with the skill to take House Lannister to the top (and bring the Tyrells with them) are either dead a.k.a Tywin or have left Kings Landing a.k.a Tyrion.     They are now allied with a House Lannister headed by Cersei and Jaimie, the former being vicious and counter-productive, willing to work against allies even in petty matters (like countermanding Margaery's public gift of food to the poor) and Jaimie (who's sense of morality is non-existent and who has proven he is willing to kill for Cersei as long as your not Tyrion). 

 

They can't switch sides again.   House Stark is destroyed and House Baratheon hates them.  And to top it off House Martell will probably have a grudge against the entire Royal Court because of what happened to Oberyn.   I think Mace, Margaery and Loras are going to have their hands full next season, if I were them  I might say screw it and get myself back to Highgarden.

[jellysalmon]

 And to top it off House Martell will probably have a grudge against the entire Royal Court because of what happened to Oberyn.  

A small detail that was dropped from the books is the animosity between houses Tyrell and Martell partially ecause Oberyn knocked Margaery's older brother Garlan (non-existant in the show) off his horse during a joust and crippled him. Which is too bad because a Martell-Tyrell alliance would be great. Garlan is also the Tyrell that Cersei is supposed to marry instead of Loras. From all accounts, seems to be a pretty cool dude (also not gay.) Even though we never see him he is further evidence for me that House Tyrell is awesome.

 

Edit: It's also mentioned that the Tyrell-Martell animosity is between the families, not Oberyn and Garlan themselves, even more reason to like both of them.

Edited June 16, 2014 by SilverStormm
Book talk should be tagged in threads with no prefix

[ambi76]

Correction of Jellysalmon's spoiler.

 

Jellysalmon you mixed up

Garlan (middle Tyrell brother, married) and Willas (oldest Tyrell brother, crippled). Happens all the time (because of the minority of their overall roles) and would probably be cited by D&D as evidence than they were right in cutting them both out of the show.

Edited June 19, 2014 by ambi76

[Lady S.]

I hope Marg's next black widow mating ceremony has a dress and hairstyle as fabulous as what she did for the Purple Wedding.

 

They can't switch sides again.   House Stark is destroyed and House Baratheon hates them.  And to top it off House Martell will probably have a grudge against the entire Royal Court because of what happened to Oberyn.   I think Mace, Margaery and Loras are going to have their hands full next season, if I were them  I might say screw it and get myself back to Highgarden.

Maybe their old allies House Targaryen could finally come back into play, though the Tyrells better hope for some amnesty after collaborating with the enemy regime.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Lady S.

[Rocket]

I like growing strong as plants really will grow over everything in the end if you don't keep holding them back. The Japanese have a saying "blooming with pride" for the flowers who survive everything in a hard winter to push up and bloom in spring. Hum maybe a answer to Stark words, after your winter we will grow back. 

 

I don't think Olenna trusts Littlefinger any more than she could bury him under her rose bushes. But Olenna wanted something done and I am sure sees the Littlefinger deal as one of convenance and does not trust him further than knowing he will not rat her out on the murder as Littefinger wants legitimate power in the end so does not want his dirty laundry public. 

[Maximum Taco]

I hope Marg's next black widow mating ceremony has a dress and hairstyle as fabulous as what she did for the Purple Wedding.

 

Maybe their old allies House Targaryen could finally come back into play, though the Tyrells better hope for some amnesty after collaborating with the enemy regime.

 

To be fair to the Tyrells, they stayed loyal to the Targs until Rhaegar and Aerys died. They only started collaborating with the Baratheons after they had already seized power. And at that point who could blame them? It was submit or die.

 

I think Dany would be quick to forgive if they come over right away.

[Advance35]

I just can't see the Tyrells willing to backslide.   Margaery is kind of Queen right now, I don't think  House Tyrell wants to go back to Vassel status even for Dany.

 

On one hand they are actually in a good place because House Lannister's plotters are all out of the Game.   Tywin is dead and Tyrion is now a fugitive.   Littlefinger is at the Vale and Varys will be MIA so the best connivers at Court are them.   The bad thing is though Cersei and Jaimie aren't great at  hatching schemes.   They can both be lethally impulsive (like shoving people out of windows).

 

It'll be interesting to see how they try to dominate going forward.    Although I think they really should ask Olenna to come back to Kings Landing.   Mace is easily pushed around, Loras seems like a weak-reed in the "Game" of it all, and Margaery is still vastly inexperienced as demonstrated by her needing Olenna's direction in the Purple Wedding aftermath.

[ambi76]

I hope Marg's next black widow mating ceremony has a dress and hairstyle as fabulous as what she did for the Purple Wedding.

Ha. You don't think they will pull the book thing where she

wears the exact same stuff again on her wedding with Tommen?

 

Nah. Costume people probably won't have it.

[Lady S.]

Ha. You don't think they will pull the book thing where she

wears the exact same stuff again on her wedding with Tommen?

 

Nah. Costume people probably won't have it.

See, I felt like she

wore the exact same thing in the book

, but didn't feel like checking.

The costumers don't use that much variety on the show imo. I feel like Cersei, Marg, and Sansa each kept wearing the same dress in King's Landing, even though I know there were slight variations. After joining the Lannister court, Marg's wedding dress and mourning attire were the only real styling changes for her.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Lady S.

[ambi76]

Yes, she

does wear the same thing in the books

, to Cersei's great annoyance

(and refusing a Lannister cloak OMG!11!)

,

but she's

changing her hairdo at least

. Considering that PW monster-hair on the show that would probably be for the best. :P

Edited June 21, 2014 by ambi76

[Advance35]

I did a recent re-watch of GoT and I find House Tyrell more oblique than ever.

 

I'm know longer sure if I believe Olenna when she says it's Mace Tyrell that habored and nurtured the ambition and desire for control of the Iron Throne.   He's so dense and easily pushed aroundd and House Tyrells manuevers have been so subtle and well played.   I find it hard to believe that they've all come from such a dunce.

 

Loras ingratiating himself to Lord Renly to the point where he was able to gas Renly's head up enough to make a play for the Iron Throne.   And based on the brief convo we got between Loras and Renly, it seemed like even while Robert was alive Loras was manuevering Renly against him.   I feel like all of this had to have come about through the direction of Olenna.  

 

But than I wonder, what would motivate Olenna Tyrell to get involved with House Lannister.    The executed the head of House Stark, The Queen Regent committed incest with her brother and schemed to pass off the children of her and her brother as rightful heirs to the Iron Throne.   Incest Product No. 1 gave an order for his guards to slaughter every rumored illegitamet child of his deceased "father".    A Lannister (though it was Jaimie, the rumor being Tyrion thanks to Catelyn Stark) threw a small child out of a tower window.  The Daughter of a Great House (Sansa) was stripped and beaten before an entire court in Kings Landing and later on forcibly married to one of the most reviled figures in the royal court.   Add in the Red Wedding and the fact that per, Margaery the Royal Court musicians continuously play "The Reins of Castamere".  

 

How is House Tyrell not terrified of these people.   Where did Olenna find the steel to murder Joffrey at his own wedding, granted she had the means to make sure Sansa took the fall if it became necessary but still.......

 

I don't know whether to admire the House Tyrell ambition or be afraid for all those who come into their orbit.

[Lady S.]

I don't doubt Mace had the ambition if not the brains. I believe Olenna that the Renly stuff was a Loras job with Mace's support, because none of it was all that brilliant. But at the same time I do suspect she could have undone the Lannister alliance without resorting to weddingicide. The Tyrells' main difference from the Lannisters seems to be that they all get along and the kids have a good relationship with Mace, so social-climber that he is, I don't see why his ambition would trump if Olenna explained all she knew of Joffrey and the very real possibility of Marg being abused and Loras being dead. She could have gotten her family away from the Lannisters if she really wanted to, instead she helped Marg's queen dreams by getting her a better young king.  

 

I don't think there was ever much chance of Olenna being correctly fingered for Joff's murder, if it somehow hadn't been Sansa or Tyrion, it would have been the Red Viper or someone else already considered an enemy.  Sure Cersei hated the Tyrells but Tywin didn't, and a little old lady just doesn't comes across as that dangerous.