The Relationships Thread: The Cardiac Wing

[HeatLifer]

Sam is ALWAYS thinking about Jake/Jason while in bed with Patrick. You'd think he'd object at some point

It's seriously gross. It's always after implied sex and Patrick is just so OK with discussing it. SMH.

[WendyCR72]

It's seriously gross. It's always after implied sex and Patrick is just so OK with discussing it. SMH.

 

Real Patrick has also been abducted. I'll never believe anything different.

[HeatLifer]

Real Patrick has also been abducted. I'll never believe anything different.

I've been convinced he's someone in a mask ever since that scene where he came face-to-face with Faison and didn't give a single fuck.

[OnceSane]

Sam is ALWAYS thinking about Jake/Jason while in bed with Patrick. You'd think he'd object at some point

Patrick knows that Sam thinking about Jake makes her hot, so he has a chance at double nookie.

[WendyCR72]

Patrick knows that Sam thinking about Jake makes her hot, so he has a chance at double nookie.

 

Not gonna lie: As squicked out as I am, this also made me laugh.

[HeatLifer]

Sam: I think it's wrong that Jason will never know his son is alive.

Sam says this to Patrick, who didn't give a flying fuck if Jason ever reunited with her or Danny. Yet he sits there like, "Aw! I know, Sammy! Let's fuck."

And I'm asked why I think Patrick is a diabolical liar?!

[WendyCR72]

Sam: I think it's wrong that Jason will never know his son is alive.

Sam says this to Patrick, who didn't give a flying fuck if Jason ever reunited with her or Danny. Yet he sits there like, "Aw! I know, Sammy! Let's fuck."

And I'm asked why I think Patrick is a diabolical liar?!

 

But Sam knows this. So how stupid does that make her? I can't fault Patrick. He has made his feelings known before and Sam knows. So that's on her dumb ass, not Patrick's.

[HeatLifer]

But Sam knows this. So how stupid does that make her? I can't fault Patrick. He has made his feelings known before and Sam knows. So that's on her dumb ass, not Patrick's.

Sam knows what? She has no idea that he ever thought that or told Robin not to leave for that reason. The show pretends like it never happened.

[WendyCR72]

Sam knows what? She has no idea that he ever thought that or told Robin not to leave for that reason. The show pretends like it never happened.

 

Sam knows about Patrick's hatred of Jason, Robin or no Robin. They've both lived in the same town long enough. Then there was Sam shrieking at Patrick as he had "Robin's" ashes on him.

 

Sam knows all about the Jason hate, Robin's part in it or not.

 

So any decision she makes to fuck Patrick, knowing he hates Jason, is on her.

 

[HeatLifer]

The show refuses to acknowledge Patrick's real feelings on Jason. He just sits there as a sounding board to Sam's problems. So Sam isn't portrayed as "knowing Patrick hates Jason but doesn't care." Which is my point. The show ignoring shit, specifically Patrick saying he didn't care if Jason was alive for Danny. And then they have him sit there, nodding his head like a diabolical bitch when Sam says "it's so wrong."

[WendyCR72]

The show refuses to acknowledge Patrick's real feelings on Jason. He just sits there as a sounding board to Sam's problems. So Sam isn't portrayed as "knowing Patrick hates Jason but doesn't care." Which is my point. The show ignoring shit, specifically Patrick saying he didn't care if Jason was alive for Danny. And then they have him sit there, nodding his head like a diabolical bitch when Sam says "it's so wrong."

 

Agree to disagree then.  :-)  Because I don't see it as diabolical since Patrick's feelings - back before his lobotomy and when he had a POV and a personality - were common knowledge. Sam is just stuck in her Jason World and nothing penetrates it.

[HeatLifer]

Of course that's how Patrick used to feel, I'm not debating that. I'm saying the show purposely ignores things to make Samtrick work.

[Oracle42]

The show ignores these things because the writers are terrible but I don't think there's any indication that Pat is diabolical - just stripped of personality and agency because RC does not care, at all, about character integrity

[HeatLifer]

The show ignores these things because the writers are terrible but I don't think there's any indication that Pat is diabolical - just stripped of personality and agency because RC does not care, at all, about character integrity

Oh, of course not. I just personally think he looks diabolical because I don't ignore the things the show does.

[dubbel zout]

I think Patrick can hate Jason while being sad that Danny has no father, but the show isn't going for layers. It just wants to bludgeon us with the irony that Jason is alive and the people who should know it don't.

[HeatLifer]

I think Patrick can hate Jason while being sad that Danny has no father, but the show isn't going for layers. It just wants to bludgeon us with the irony that Jason is alive and the people who should know it don't.

To me, Patrick lost the right to feel bad for Danny not having Jason when he ranted and screamed about how Jason deserved to stay dead and he didn't care if Sam and Danny didn't have him. Now he's OK with waxing poetic about Jason, being Danny's daddy, and screwing Sam. On any other show, this character would be a scheming liar.

Edited July 29, 2015 by HeatLifer

[dubbel zout]

Wasn't that rant when Robin died in the explosion? If so, I cut him some slack due to circumstances.

[HeatLifer]

No, when Robin was leaving to save Jason. A conversation and event he never explained to Sam, who I think would be very interested to know exactly why Patrick got a divorce.

Edited July 29, 2015 by HeatLifer

[GHScorpiosRule]

Wasn't that rant when Robin died in the explosion? If so, I cut him some slack due to circumstances.

 

No. I believe it was Patrick yelling at Robin when she told him that Jason may be alive, and that she could save him. But she had to leave to do so. Patrick yelled and then we learned Victor wasn't really giving her a choice.

[dubbel zout]

I still cut him some slack given the circumstances. But I understand the feelings here. (It's just not the story I choose to get a rage blackout over. Heh.)

[HeatLifer]

I still cut him some slack given the circumstances. But I understand the feelings here. (It's just not the story I choose to get a rage blackout over. Heh.)

Lol, and I get that. But for me it's a huge example of what this show has done under Ron. Characters do or say one thing one day and it's completely contradicted the next. The story becomes hard to follow.

Edited July 29, 2015 by HeatLifer

[dubbel zout]

Yeah, everyone is a mess simply so Ron can make the story work for him. Here's hoping the new HWs can fix some of that.

Edited July 29, 2015 by dubbel zout

[BestestAuntEver]

I still cut him some slack given the circumstances. But I understand the feelings here. (It's just not the story I choose to get a rage blackout over. Heh.)

Lucky you, because this and Robin's story does give me rage black outs. Lol, it makes me want to throw and smash things

[HeatLifer]

Lucky you, because this and Robin's story does give me rage black outs. Lol, it makes me want to throw and smash things

When you have Robin chained to a wall for years and Patrick receiving an implied BJ in their bed, it officially gives me rage blackouts.

[dubbel zout]

What saves me from having rage blackouts on this is that Ron is so blatantly ignoring the obvious. "Robin who?" He's not even trying. So if he won't, I won't, either.

 

The Olivia baby-secret story, on the other hand? Instant rage blackout. Lulu/Dante/Valerie/Dillon? Ditto. There's clearly work put into these, yet they're still so badly...I can't go on. I'm starting to smell toast.

Edited July 29, 2015 by dubbel zout

[Jazzy24]

The show refuses to acknowledge Patrick's real feelings on Jason. He just sits there as a sounding board to Sam's problems. So Sam isn't portrayed as "knowing Patrick hates Jason but doesn't care." Which is my point. The show ignoring shit, specifically Patrick saying he didn't care if Jason was alive for Danny. And then they have him sit there, nodding his head like a diabolical bitch when Sam says "it's so wrong."

Diabolical bitch!! HA!!

[ulkis]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLLOxSHWoAAfEtd.jpg

 

if Liz were a man, this is what I would call classic woobification

[Oracle42]

Ew. So no mention of a licensed psychologist? Jason's just gonna fix it with his peen?

I mean, I guess it worked for Sonny & Connie.

I am not going to miss RC's writing for the ladies - or any of the characters, really but the crazies/babiez stories have been especially repellent

Edited July 30, 2015 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

Isn't Jason the one being woobified in that? Or do I not have an accurate idea of the concept?

[HeatLifer]

Woobie's are usually broken, hurt male characters, so Liz would be the female version of that.

Edited July 30, 2015 by HeatLifer

[ulkis]

Isn't Jason the one being woobified in that? Or do I not have an accurate idea of the concept?

 

No, cause Liz is the one doing this heinous thing and the banner is just like, "but she has inner paaaaaaain! and Jason will fix it for her!" 

 

The woobie is the person who is an asshole but has the manpain.

[LeftPhalange]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLLOxSHWoAAfEtd.jpg

 

if Liz were a man, this is what I would call classic woobification

 

Was this made by a Jiz fan?

[ulkis]

Probably. I saw it at another board and it cracked me up. I couldn't resist sharing.

[dubbel zout]

The woobie is the person who is an asshole but has the manpain.

 

Ah, gotcha. I had a slightly inaccurate idea of the concept. Heh.

 

(I can't do text cross-outs on my Mac, darn it.)

[Dandesun]

The woobie has a few different interpretations. Wall-E is a woobie. He's very sweet and cute and earnest and you root for him.

 

But then you have the concept of 'woobification' where they take a complete asshole and have him make with the puppy dog eyes to make you feel sorry for him. It has varying degrees of success depending on the reaction of the audience to said character. It's not specific to males but it does tend to be something that is used to appeal to female audience members to emotionally manipulate them to get to an emotional place with the character so that bad deeds or forgotten or forgiven.

 

See: The Woobie, Iron Woobie, Jerkass Woobie and Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Dandesun

[WendyCR72]

https://pbs.twimg.co...xSHWoAAfEtd.jpg

 

No.

 

Liz needs meds and therapy. Not another man rescuing the poor saintly (passive-aggressive, two-faced) lamb.

[HeatLifer]

Got all JnR nostalgic again. When I used to RUN home to watch them. <3 And awww..when I used to LOVE Jason...he would smile and talk and laugh and everything!

[ulkis]

I think JT was the victim of having a super pairing from the get-go. Some actors can get through it and develop the same kind of response with their other pairings and some are doomed. Rebecca Budig had the same problem on AMC, IMO.

 

 

I think Rylee had a decent fanbase (although not enough to justify it being front and center) and people were definitely rooting for Greenlee to be paired with other people. Lots of people were rooting for David/Greenlee. I wanted to try out Greenlee/Jake. But they sticked to Rylee like glue.

 

I don't think JT had much of a chance either way when Kim left - Scrubs were on the show twice as long as Greenlee/Leo, Robin is the show's sweetheart, etc etc, but they certainly didn't help him by having Robin kept prisoner. How could there be a substantial fanbase for Patrick/nuwoman when those were the circumstances, it was so dumb.

Edited August 19, 2015 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

Oh, for sure! I didn't mean to make it sound like Greenlee and Patrick didn't have fans with their other pairings. Obviously they did/do. I just don't think any of them were anywhere close to their main pairing.

I think the Robin factor is huge with Patrick's story BUT I've also seen loads of fans not give a crap about X story when two actors have enough chemistry. JT hasn't had "it" with another woman, IMO.*

*Chemistry is obviously subjective. This is just my opinion.

[ulkis]

Oh, for sure! I didn't mean to make it sound like Greenlee and Patrick didn't have fans with their other pairings. Obviously they did/do. I just don't think any of them were anywhere close to their main pairing.

I think the Robin factor is huge with Patrick's story BUT I've also seen loads of fans not give a crap about X story when two actors have enough chemistry. JT hasn't had "it" with another woman, IMO.*

*Chemistry is obviously subjective. This is just my opinion.

 

Oh, but I was saying I think Greenlee moved on more successfully, and always had a better chance of moving on much more successfully, although I should admit I think RB is chem challenged and I actually didn't think she and JD had that much organic chemistry - I think they had a good story and the characters meshed well together, which imo is a totally different thing than having that kind of chemistry and being like "wow! these two spark!" 

[WendyCR72]

Not that I have personally liked any of Patrick's pairings post Robin, and I realize some don't have to care about the past history to ship, but consider both of Patrick's pairings post Robin:

 

Sabrina came out of the blue from Day One as the geek turned swan who was having fantasies about the widowed doctor from her first episode. Add in that this began Patrick's de-evolution to straw man and had Sabrina use the spectre of Robin herself to sell the "romance" with her honing in on both Emma and a resurrected Nurse's Ball with Sabrina the Star, and no wonder that all failed. Not even a spawn saved it. And the useless Britt angle was another round of WTF.

 

Sam? Well, they go to bed a lot and were "adventure buddies", but her not-dead hubby is on the fringes and Sam is still yapping about him. So Samtrick also wasn't built to be some great love, no matter what lip service it is given.

 

Someone here once suggested Patrick's two-second "addiction" should have been the real deal, and SLOWLY falling for someone in rehab or even a therapist.

 

I think the construct of a love story has to make sense and work well before the audience will start to invest. Scrubs and JaSam had that. Samtrick and Purina, not so much.

[HeatLifer]

Oh, but I was saying I think Greenlee moved on more successfully, and always had a better chance of moving on much more successfully, although I should admit I think RB is chem challenged and I actually didn't think she and JD had that much organic chemistry - I think they had a good story and the characters meshed well together, which imo is a totally different thing than having that kind of chemistry and being like "wow! these two spark!"

I've only seen her have chem with Josh, so I'm kinda with you on the chem challenged point.

Edited August 19, 2015 by HeatLifer

[dubbel zout]

her not-dead hubby is on the fringes

 

"On the fringes"? Jason is front and center in that relationship. It all comes back to Jason.

[HeatLifer]

I'm not disagreeing that the story is important. But I think the way actors play off one another is equally, if not more, important. For example, I don't care if Lulu and Dillon had a story constructed for the ages! ER and the dude who plays Dillon put me to sleep. Same goes for JT and TeCa. And so on.

[WendyCR72]

"On the fringes"? Jason is front and center in that relationship. It all comes back to Jason.

 

Sure, but on the Samtrick side, Sam still thinks the killer is fish food. But she still blah blahs about him and the spectre of a reveal looms, hence my use of still being on the fringes right now. The overall story is Jason (when isn't it?), but Samtrick isn't aware of that yet.

[Tiger]

Oh, but I was saying I think Greenlee moved on more successfully, and always had a better chance of moving on much more successfully, although I should admit I think RB is chem challenged and I actually didn't think she and JD had that much organic chemistry - I think they had a good story and the characters meshed well together, which imo is a totally different thing than having that kind of chemistry and being like "wow! these two spark!"

It probably helped that Leo was actually dead and Josh's career took off. With Patrick, Robin is not still out there alive but has been held prisoner and the audience knows Kimberly will eventually be back even if only for a short visit.

The way Josh's career is going, I wouldn't be surprised if Frank managed to get him on for even a short stint.

[HeatLifer]

They never found Leo's body!!!!!!

I'm ok.

[jsbt]

I think Patrick could work with any number of people, but the show has no interest in really writing for 99% of those potential pairings. I think once they began to actively focus on what was happening organically with Patrick and Sam, they turned it into a plot-driven construct and it's been made beyond dull, and overly rushed. We almost never see them talk about each other and why they're together; we see them talk about the artifice of being together, and about plot.

[HeatLifer]

I don't think the writing is the sole reason Sam and Patrick are dull. The characters have still had romantic moments that were made blah by the actors. There is NO passion in their kissing scenes. None. And that's not the writing in my eyes.

[dubbel zout]

Maybe if they could talk about something other than Jason, they could generate some heat. That's what I mean about Jason being front and center. He doesn't have to physically be there to dominate things.