S03.E08: He Who Comes With The Dawn

[paulvdb]

Quote

Nynaeve, Elayne, Mat, and Min confront the Black Ajah and their futures. Moiraine and Lan prepare to face their fate. Rand and Egwene set their destinies in motion.

Season finale. Premiere date: April 17, 2025.

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, we didn't get a massive battle like last season's finale, but a lot sure did happen!

Damn, I figured Elaida wasn't down for the count and would try to make another play at the Aes Sedai throne, but I wasn't expecting it to go off so effectively!  Just needed to get the majority of the sisters outside of the palace, secure eleven votes, claim Siuan is a Dark Ajah and a traitor due to her relationship with Moiraine, and bam!  Successful coup!  Added bonus is that she even had Siuan executed right in the throne room.  At least she/Sophie Okonedo got to have one final epic speech before her exit.  Either way, Elaida is currently sitting pretty smug now on the top of the throne.  I'm sure her downfall will be epic, but until then, I'm going enjoy more of Shohreh Aghdashloo smirking and sassing everyone around her, all while dressed in the most overly regal queen outfit one could possibly find!

The Tanchico gang is at least still in one piece, but they also had a rough go of it as well.  They follow Liandrin to the temple the collar is hidden in, Nynaeve manages to find it first, but then Liandrin takes it from her and tries to drown Nynaeve instead.  But that ends up being a mistake being near death finally leads to Nynaeve being able to channel and, yeah, she's powerful.  Like can part the sea powerful!

Are they hinting that Thom Merrilin is Elayne's biological father?  He knew her when she was young and seems very protective of her.  Thought for sure he was being set-up for a noble sacrifice, but instead he was just an inadvertent distraction, while Elayne totally fucked up that one lackey of Liandrin's.  Yeah, underneath the naivety and years of royal life, Elayne's all sorts of dangerous and badass.  And that's why I love her!

Mat gets suck into a portal where he meets some kind of cat guy (?)  Cat guy is able to get all of the other voices out of his head, but as "payment", Mat is hung from the rafter just like Min's vision predicted.  Thankfully, she was able to cut him down before he died.  Another destined death adverted for now!

Speaking of which, Moiraine's death at Lanfear's hand almost does happen in the middle of the desert, but is thwarted thanks to some Lan interference and Moiraine sensing Suane's death and hulking out enough to slash Lanfear's throat.  But it looks like Lanfear is able to heal herself before she flees into a portal.  I'm sure the day will come when she overstays her welcome, but until then, I'm going to continue to love Lanfear being a thorn in everyone's sides, while Natasha O'Keeffe rocks those black outfits!

Rand tries to get all of the tribes-folks to rally behind him, but finds an obstacle in the form of Lanfear somehow creating her own Dragon Reborn with that guy Rand had issues with episodes ago during the trial.  But after some harsh truths about their past and literally causing rain to come from the sky, everyone seems back onboard the Rand train.  Expect Egwene, who is just a little disturbed by how Dragon-ish he was acting.  Yeah, he does seem one bad day away from going all mad on us!

Didn't check in on Perrin himself, but it looks like Faile and the Spear Sisters might be on their way to try and rescue him.

Hope the show gets renewed for another season (and for however long it takes to finish the story they want to tell.)  Always been a fan; even during the admittedly uneven first season; but it feels like the show really has improved in almost every aspect each season.  Hope enough people keep watching or maybe even revisit it, and Amazon sees the potential to keep it going.  The wheel must not be broken!

[AnimeMania]

I am most concerned about Mat because I am not sure whether his encounter with "WilyKit" left him better off or worse.  Mat doesn't really have any powers now that the only person that knows where his "sheep tooter" is, is no more.

Now will Elayne (with her magic wand) and party head to Andor to secure that army before or after they head to The White Tower to place "the strongest channeler in a generation" on the hotly contested Amyrlin Seat to unify the Aes Sedai.

[Hanahope]

Well win some lose some.

win for Rand. He has his army and apparently some control over the One Power.  But he has his challenges to come with Lanfear, the Tower and Liandrin. 

draw I guess for Morraine.  She lives, but loses Siuan.  LAN still there for her.

draw for the Tanchico group.  Nynaeve releases her bond finally we think?  But looses all the items to Liandrin who will try to collar Rand.  Elayne gets a sangreal and finds out her mothers consort is fake.  I’m guessing Thom is her bio dad too. Mat doesn’t die and doesn’t hear the screams anymore, but loses his memory of some things?  
 

Waygate to a genie who gives three wishes? Better set your conditions next time.  

big loss for the Tower with Siuan’s overthrow and death.  Eladia just wanting power and to cage Rand not understanding what his role is to do.  I still don’t trust Verin 100% though.  
 

The Tower is no longer safe for our group to return to so I wonder where they go from here.  I’ve started reading the books, so I might know before the next season arrives.  
 

[Danny Franks]

Well, they got a metric tonne of plot shifted in this episode, but I think it suffered a bit from the limited amount of time they've had to tell the story. Quite a few things felt rushed - Elayne learning that Thom knew her as a girl, Thom questioning Gaebril's existence, Rand arriving at Alcair Dal.

I wasn't a huge fan of the scenes with everyone wandering around the Panarch's palace, looking for the collar. It just felt a bit clunkily written and directed. But it's quite funny that the Black Ajah are every bit as inept in the series as the Forsaken are in the books. Despite having a Balefire ter'angreal, Jeaine can't manage to actually kill anyone.

But the Balefire effect was pretty cool. Not as blinding as it's described in the books, but you don't really want to be blinding your audience. I liked the kind of outline showing that Jeaine's last few seconds were being erased from the Pattern.

The Eelfinn was super creepy looking, but it's a shame there was only one of them. I liked the weird sound effects used in that scene, and Donal Finn seemed appropriately freaked out.

Nynaeve finally broke her block, which is good. She can stop worrying constantly about being useless.

Moghedien's "I don't work well with others," could be the motto of the Forsaken and Black Ajah, at this point. She turned Sammael into... what?... a spider-web of sinew and ligaments? Eesh. And Rahvin's reaction to that is to make a joke. 

I liked Rand's conversation with Moiraine, where he thanks her for making sure he's on the right path. And man, they were selling the "Moiraine's gonna die," song hard, weren't they? Only to have both her and Lanfear survive, which is good, because they're both to much fun to watch to get rid of.

Sadly, I found the climactic scenes to be underwhelming -

Rand revealing the truth of the Aiel needed way more time to make it clear that Rand's words proved to the chiefs that he was the true Car'a'carn. The show made it look like him making it rain was the dealbreaker.

Moiraine vs Lanfear was just a bit silly. Why would Lanfear not turn Lan inside out the second he came near her?

But Sophie Okonedo was fantastic, showing Siuan's true belief in the purpose of the Aes Sedai. It looked like she actually got through to Elaida a little bit. But not to Alviarin, unfortunately.

I do love what they've done with Elaida, showing that she's so clearly being guided by her principles and doing what she genuinely thinks is right. But she's also ambitious and vain and self-important, which seem like terrible qualities for an Amyrlin Seat.

Sidenote: What the hell was Sevanna wearing at Alcair Dal? She's as ridiculous in her outfit choices as the Forsaken.

[tennisgurl]

I really hope that we get another season, we have a whole lot of plot that they just threw at us. It was all a little much, but overall I really enjoyed this finale. We have closed a decent amount of the seasons plots but have also opened many more, it would certainly leave us in a wild spot for the next season. I will really miss this show if this is the end, its one of the most gorgeous shows on TV and its really gotten better every season.

I love how consistent it is that, for all of their mysterious spookiness, the Black Aja and the Forsaken are also just a bunch of petty weirdos like everyone else. Just because you wear a lot of black that doesn't mean your all knowing.

Is Thom Elayne's biological father? The way that he was talking to her made it sound like it could be, I am not even sure we have a lot of information about her father. I was worried that he was about to sacrifice himself to save her, but Elayne came back and handled that check that it was nothing, because she's awesome. 

My husband, who has read the books but wont watch the show, has told me nothing about the series except for there will be cat people, so I am happy to report to him that they have arrived. Min was able to save Mat and he got at least some of his mind fixed, but he's lost memory and still isn't out of the woods. I just love Mat and Min, they match each other so well, two snarky assholes with big gooey hearts of gold.

Elaida might be a villain, and I am furious at her for what she did to Siun, but she is also just so fabulous up on her throne, she is going to be a great villain who's not connected with the Forsaken. Its hard to watch Siun go, I really like her and her relationship with Moiraine, but at least she got to finally publicly declare her love for Moiraine at last and got to call out everyone who has put their ambition over their oaths. 

Showing up out of nowhere to zap people while looking like a goth princess while calling Rahvin a big old whore, I know she's evil but I just cant quit her, Rand is truly a stronger person than me. 

Rand finally got the Aiel on his side and is even closer to his destiny, but he might be a little too close to some part of his destiny, he is getting sucked more and more into the power. I have really come around on Josha, he's done a great job this season. 

Edited April 18 by tennisgurl

[Megras]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Is Thom Elayne's biological daughter?

Definitely not :D

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The Eelfinn was super creepy looking, but it's a shame there was only one of them. I liked the weird sound effects used in that scene, and Donal Finn seemed appropriately freaked out.

I posted an interview with Sharon Gilham in the media thread. They talk for a quite a while about the Eelfinn design and costume and she mentioned that Donal Finn had not been allowed to see the Eelfinn before they shot that scene.*

It felt a bit rushed to me but they had to cover a lot of ground. I'm glad Nynaeve finally resolved her block but I hope that we will get some dialogue/flashback next season *fingers crossed* what exactly happened there. To what did she submit? Death? Her ability to channel? She talked to her daughter in the flashback about trust - which is a form of submitting. I just don't think it was very clear what was going on - especially for such an epic moment.

Mat got a cute fox pendant. And we finally got more info on Elaida's bracelet. Does every pendant/charm on that thing stand for a deal she did with the Eelfinn? No wonder she's get tremors.

Not sure why but Rand throwing the truth into the Aiel's faces fell a bit flat for me. And why did Bair and Melaine know about it? I thought the Rings showed the future? 

The best scenes were Rand thanking Moraine and Siuan's speech of defiance. Sophie Onokedo acted the hell out of that scene.

It was a fantastic ride and I really hope the show gets renewed. You can tell that all involved were putting their heart and soul into making it. Not that such considerations matter when it comes down to business but AFAIK the viewing/streaming numbers are good. So, off to Tear we go!

*Some other tidbits from that interview: Lanfear's headpiece during the gruesome scene when she and Rhavin study Moghedien's handiwork had a print that showed the lunar landscape (since she's connected to the moon). The chest piece on Moraine's gown during the battle with Lanfear was made of stylized script in the old tongue featuring the same quote over and over again.

[quarks]

Great episode right up until the last ten minutes, which seemed extremely rushed, leaving me asking things like:

1. Wait, why did the Tanchico group just leave the Palace and leave the bracelets/collar with Liandrin? How did the Tanchico group just leave the Palace and get on a boat - sure, Liandrin might not have realized that Nynaeve wasn't dead after all (although I would think that she (and the ever careful Moggy) would have heard all of that water separating and then falling back into the sea. WATER IS LOUD, EVERYONE.  But beyond that, Liandrin saw plenty of dead bodies and is smart enough to realize that other people might have been with Nynaeve. Why not hunt them down?

2. Is Chesmal (Yellow/Black Ajah with the cats) dead? Or just knocked out?

3. What happened to Couladin?

4. I appreciated the whole Egwene not kneeling to Rand at the end and asking him to stop - worked well with the earlier Lanfear/Rand scene, and I think worked as a setup for things later in the series, assuming Amazon renews this, BUT

Spoiler

I am not sure why Aviendha was kneeling, especially after her statements to Egwene earlier in the episode. I mean she clearly saw certain things in those Rings!

5. I have theories about what's going on here, but if Alviarin can just kill people she thinks are Darkfriends, that seems to be a severe weakness with these Three Oaths. Is the show going to be addressing this?

6. Where - WHERE - does Sevanna get her outfits?

[DoctorAtomic]

I had a work dinner so I had to wait till tonight. Already liking the title. 

"What to do with Rand" bothers me, but I get where they're all coming from. They're seriously underestimating him.

I didn't quite get the reasoning behind the plan to trap Lanfear or when they all came up with it. I would have liked some setup. Why bait her when you can lead her on? Tell her false plans, things like that. That's not easy to do either but still. 

The doorway was terrifying! Maybe Min don't be panting like a bloodhound when you're hiding too!

Why was no one in the palace? Did Liandrin kill them all?

Min to the rescue! How does she know cpr?!

Tell me you all were yelling for Ny to channel! I mean I would have floated out, but parting the water is BAMF!

Nice to let Pike act off Rand and not oversaturated her with dialogue. 

I guess there's no appeals process in the Tower. Calling Siuan a Darkfriend seems like an outright lie, which Eliada shouldn't do. 

Good job showing Rand reading the Prophecies a while back to say them all here. Please tell me someone else hears voices when Rand channels. 

11 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Waygate to a genie who gives three wishes? Better set your conditions next time.  

It's not a waygate. It's a ter'angreal; they said it on the show. If you notice, the beginning, in the Tower, Eliada uses one too. 

[Danny Franks]

6 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I posted an interview with Sharon Gilham in the media thread. They talk for a quite a while about the Eelfinn design and costume and she mentioned that Donal Finn had not been allowed to see the Eelfinn before they shot that scene.*

That's a fun move. Donal Finn has really impressed me this season, but I think giving him the extra edge of being confronted with this weird, alien-looking thing as he steps onto set probably made his performance even better.

6 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Not sure why but Rand throwing the truth into the Aiel's faces fell a bit flat for me. And why did Bair and Melaine know about it? I thought the Rings showed the future? 

I don't recall if it's been explained in the show fully, but the rings are for women who become Wise One apprentices, like Aviendha. They have to make a second journey to Rhuidean when they're ready to become fully fledged Wise Ones, and go through the glass columns.

So only Aiel with the mental strength to accept the truth of their history can take on leadership roles in their culture.

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I guess there's no appeals process in the Tower. Calling Siuan a Darkfriend seems like an outright lie, which Eliada shouldn't do. 

That's where Elaida was tricksy with the Three Oaths. She said "you have been accused of being a Darkfriend," but doesn't say who has accused her, or whether she believes it or not.

I think it shows Elaida's willingness to do whatever it takes to become the Amrylin Seat. But to a sister of the red ajah, supporting a man who can channel might be considered proof that someone is a Darkfriend.

 

[Haleth]

I watched the first season and thought it was ok. I reluctantly watched the second season and thought it was better. This season?  Fantastic!  The acting has gotten soooo much better and the production values are outstanding. I was truly entertained the whole time. Love, love all the strong female characters. I admit to not understanding half of what was going on (too much time between seasons, too many names and cultures to remember) but it was fun to just ride with it. It has even encouraged me to reserve the third book (sorry to say I hated the first two) so I can better understand who’s who and what’s what. Hope this gets renewed because at last I’m invested. 

[quarks]

 

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

It has even encouraged me to reserve the third book (sorry to say I hated the first two) so I can better understand who’s who and what’s what. Hope this gets renewed because at last I’m invested. 

Without being overly spoilery, I thought the first three books were fine - generic fantasy, but fine. Books four to six were, I thought, on a different level, and the best parts of the series. 

Since you enjoyed this season more than the first two, my guess is that you may have a similar reaction, enjoying book four more than the first three.

[DoctorAtomic]

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

That's where Elaida was tricksy with the Three Oaths. She said "you have been accused of being a Darkfriend," but doesn't say who has accused her, or whether she believes it or not.

Yeah. I was commenting in the spoiler thread and realized how it played out. She could have actually accused her of conspiracy or something like that, which is kind of true. Although the point was to kill her off, so you have to go all in. I'm really interested in what deal she made with the Foxes to get out of there basically unscathed.

Still no appeal process though. 

Always goes to show you that lack of transparency will come back to smack you in the face or even kill you.

After the Foretelling, finding the Dragon should have been a clandestine mission, but once gaining the Seat, you probably want to let at least the Sitters in on it. 

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But to a sister of the red ajah, supporting a man who can channel might be considered proof that someone is a Darkfriend.

I don't think Elaida disputed Rand is the Dragon though. The dispute was how to control him for the Last Battle and whether the Tower should officially declare that he is the Dragon and they support him. The latter, I probably would argue is premature at this point without the Tower first deciding how they would deal with Rand because the entire continent would explode if the Tower announced the Dragon was in fact truly Reborn. Or, perhaps, prior to Siuan explaining the Foretelling, Elaida was on the fence as to whether Rand was the Dragon or not. Either way, she did want to cage him and bring him in. 

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

The acting has gotten soooo much better and the production values are outstanding. I was truly entertained the whole time. Love, love all the strong female characters. I admit to not understanding half of what was going on (too much time between seasons, too many names and cultures to remember) but it was fun to just ride with it.

In the behind the scenes for this episode, Pike said basically the same that *this* is what the show had been striving for. I think she's an executive producer too, so she seems to have a vision. There's a bunch of us that know what's going on if you want to head over to the spoiler thread to ask questions.

I'd say 3 - 5 were the best in the front part of the series. All the stuff with the Aiel in this season were from 5, and there's lots lots lots more material in the books. 

Edited April 19 by DoctorAtomic

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 4/17/2025 at 6:39 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Mat gets suck into a portal where he meets some kind of cat guy (?)  Cat guy is able to get all of the other voices out of his head, but as "payment", Mat is hung from the rafter just like Min's vision predicted. 

On 4/18/2025 at 4:11 AM, AnimeMania said:

I am most concerned about Mat because I am not sure whether his encounter with "WilyKit" left him better off or worse. 

On 4/18/2025 at 5:39 PM, tennisgurl said:

My husband, who has read the books but wont watch the show, has told me nothing about the series except for there will be cat people, so I am happy to report to him that they have arrived.

On 4/18/2025 at 9:08 PM, MissLucas said:

Mat got a cute fox pendant. And we finally got more info on Elaida's bracelet. Does every pendant/charm on that thing stand for a deal she did with the Eelfinn? No wonder she's get tremors.

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm really interested in what deal she made with the Foxes to get out of there basically unscathed.

The Eelfinn are fox-people (which Mat alluded to when he said the smell reminded him of a fox den near the old Wisdom's home, and they gave him a foxhead medallion). The arch in the White Tower took Elaida to the Aelfinn, a different group (hence Alviarin asking Elaida, "What did the Aelfinn promise you?") Collectively they're nicknamed the "Finn". The Aelfinn

Spoiler

are snake-people.

Incidentally, Robert Strange, who played the Eelfinn, said that his lines were filmed in both English and the Old Tongue so they could choose which to use.

On 4/18/2025 at 11:03 AM, Hanahope said:

Elayne gets a sangreal and finds out her mothers consort is fake.

The balefire-producing wand is a ter'angreal. An angreal enhances channeling, a sa'angreal (like Callandor or the Sakarnen) is a more powerful version of that, and a ter'angreal is an object with a particular effect. The various archways, glass columns and rings, the Seanchan a'dam collars, the foxhead medallion, and the Oath Rod are all examples of ter'angreal.

[DoctorAtomic]

For the non bookers, if you go back to see the game that the boys are playing when Mat is bloviating about how he blew the Horn; it's 'Snakes and Foxes', and the foxes in the game look like what Mat encountered through the doorway. Nice easter egg. 

[Ottis]

On 4/17/2025 at 6:39 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Thankfully, she was able to cut him down before he died.  Another destined death adverted for now!

I had hoped he had actually died. Sadly, he did not.

All this running about to get the collar makes me think, given how slow this show moves, we are in for an entire season or two of "Rand in chains." Man, I might skip that and come back when he is free again.

The voting procedure for the White Tower is silly. One person is put forth and if they get enough votes, that's it? No vote for the second candidate? It's like the old NFL overtime.

The show looks great, and a lot of the acting has become very good, But the pacing, is so, so, slow.

[shrewd.buddha]

“That was .. a lot” is a phrase we often say after an episode of WoT.
Other conversations:
  “What’s her name?” “Can’t remember.” 
  “What’s her name?” “Don’t know.”
  “What’s her name?” “I think it starts with an ‘E’ .. Erawin.. something..?”

I am not enjoying the development of the Aes Sedai being a nest of vipers not much less awful than the Forsaken or the Black Ajah. 

There seemed to be three or four main storylines: Rand in the Desert, the White Tower backstabbing, The Tanchico group and The Forsaken shenanigans. But then each one splintered into sub-storylines, like Moiraine and Lanfear, Thom and Elayne, Min and Matt and the Catman, etc.

Rand and Egwene were giving strong vibes of Paul Atreides assembling his Arrakis Freeman worshippers and a disapproving, sour-faced Chani looking on. 

As for the season finale, it was solid, a bit chaotic, but not exactly thrilling. The plot armor is so strong with the core five characters, Moiraine and others, that seeing someone skewered with a sword only causes a raised eyebrow now.
.. that one Aes Sedai woman with two lovers is a human pin cushion .. (now with one less lover)

I wish this show pulled me in more, but as a non-book watcher I feel like a tourist in a museum with eyes about to glaze over from the massive and dense lore.
(Yet, still, bravo on such rich world building.)
The Eelfinn, the Aelfinn, ter'angreals, sa'angreals, charm bracelets, crystal orbs, arches, rings, columns, golden tattoos .. oh my.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I am not enjoying the development of the Aes Sedai being a nest of vipers not much less awful than the Forsaken or the Black Ajah. 

Is it surprising though? As 'good' as Siuan is, even she wanted to control Rand and basically jail him until the last battle. Moiraine I think actually is the only one that actually cares about Rand as a person, and she said she'd kill him if he went to the dark side or too mad. They're cloistered in a literal White Tower. Except Verin.

Men who can channel go nuts. Rand can't be gentled because he's essential to not having the end of the world. Even with the best intentions, no one in the Tower is prepared. 

To be fair, the books are old at this point, so, while I wouldn't call it tropey, it's also not really unpredictable either. 

It's unfortunate that they're wasn't enough time to get more into the Aiel. Clearly, comparison the Fremen is warranted, but digging in, they're a lot different too. 

I also think the show could have gotten more into the prophecies of the Dragon. 

I don't understand why 10 episodes is too much. Game of Thrones had ten. 

[Quark]

Dragged a bit in the middle, but I thought overall this was great and I am impressed.

Visually, it is absolutely stunning.

Favourite character is Elaida (played by one of my favourite actors), followed by Lanfear. Both are awesome.

Shout-outs to Matt and Min.

Some of the outfits were out of this word (pardon the pun). Notably the outfits that Sevanna and Elaida wore (especially when she became Amyrlin).

Edited Monday at 09:02 PM by Quark

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 4/28/2025 at 4:59 PM, Quark said:

Favourite character is Elaida (played by one of my favourite actors)

Then perhaps you'd like a link to her eponymous theme on the soundtrack.