S07.15 Written in My Own Heart’s Blood

[GHScorpiosRule]

The American Revolution reaches the pivotal Battle of Monmouth; Lord John Grey and Ian race to save William; Brianna makes an important decision.

[ch1]

Nice that Claire has an unlimited supply of blood to not bleed out while Jaime makes his dramatic point.

 

[FnkyChkn34]

Shouldn't she also know how to do a blood transfusion and have taught Rachel's brother by now?  I mean, Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman knew and she *wasn't* from the 1970s.  

[BitterApple]

I love this show, but all these near-deaths that are meant to be shocking aren't having much emotional impact any more. We know Claire isn't going to die, just like we know Jamie really didn't go down with the ship. I just roll my eyes at this point. 

I'm curious to see where Brianna and the kids end up. 

One thing has me confused though. When Buck and Roger were talking about their family lineage, Buck refers to himself as Roger's great-grandfather. Wouldn't he be Roger's great-great or great-great-great? With 200 years separating their births, surely there's more than one generation between them? 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

One thing has me confused though. When Buck and Roger were talking about their family lineage, Buck refers to himself as Roger's great-grandfather. Wouldn't he be Roger's great-great or great-great-great? With 200 years separating their births, surely there's more than one generation between them? 

Yes. I call it lazy writing.

[Ziggy]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

One thing has me confused though. When Buck and Roger were talking about their family lineage, Buck refers to himself as Roger's great-grandfather. Wouldn't he be Roger's great-great or great-great-great? With 200 years separating their births, surely there's more than one generation between them? 

Yes, he literally said, "great-grandfather," but it was more like "great, uh (hand motions indicating many greats) grandfather."

His body language implied an uncertain number of greats.

[AZChristian]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm curious to see where Brianna and the kids end up. 

One thing has me confused though. When Buck and Roger were talking about their family lineage, Buck refers to himself as Roger's great-grandfather. Wouldn't he be Roger's great-great or great-great-great? With 200 years separating their births, surely there's more than one generation between them? 

When Jemmy went running for the stones with Amanda right behind him, I wondered whether they would end up somewhere different than Brianna and/or Roger.  That could be scary!

It looked to me like Buck referred to himself as Roger's great-grandfather with an open-ended question mark at the end . . . like he, himself, wasn't sure of how many "greats" belonged there.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

When Jemmy went running for the stones with Amanda right behind him, I wondered whether they would end up somewhere different than Brianna and/or Roger.  That could be scary!

It was actually the other away around. Mandy said “Da” or “Daddy” and headed straight for the stones with Jemmy and Bree running after her.

[Cosmocrush]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

… We know Claire isn't going to die, just like we know Jamie really didn't go down with the ship. I just roll my eyes at this point. 

 

True, but I am curious how she gets out of this one; a gunshot to the gut is pretty bad and often fatal, even now.  

[FnkyChkn34]

15 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

True, but I am curious how she gets out of this one; a gunshot to the gut is pretty bad and often fatal, even now.  

The magic French cheese. 🙄

[BitterApple]

20 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Yes, he literally said, "great-grandfather," but it was more like "great, uh (hand motions indicating many greats) grandfather."

His body language implied an uncertain number of greats.

 

19 hours ago, AZChristian said:

 

It looked to me like Buck referred to himself as Roger's great-grandfather with an open-ended question mark at the end . . . like he, himself, wasn't sure of how many "greats" belonged there.

Thanks, I'll have to rewatch. Sometimes it's hard for me to understand the dialogue so I focus hard on that and miss body language.

[jacourt]

Remember Claire scrapping something off the Roquefort cheese at the dinner?  Now they make a point of having some. Maybe there is something in the covering of the cheese that saves her. 

[Eureka]

7 hours ago, jacourt said:

Remember Claire scrapping something off the Roquefort cheese at the dinner?  Now they make a point of having some. Maybe there is something in the covering of the cheese that saves her. 

Roquefort is a moldy cheese, so she was saving some of the veins running through it. When Denny came in with the basket of cheese, she said something to the effect of Roquefort and penicillin.

Edited January 6 by Eureka

[Cdh20]

5 hours ago, jacourt said:

Remember Claire scrapping something off the Roquefort cheese at the dinner?  Now they make a point of having some. Maybe there is something in the covering of the cheese that saves her. 

At the dinner she was eating the jellied eel, & scraping off the jelly! 

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm sliding in on a Sunday! You forget how long the show's been on with all those battle flashbacks. Kudos to the editors. Kudos to the makeup artists too because Claire looked like a baby back then. 

Was the opening tease supposed to be Frank and Bree looking at the portrait of Jamie? I suppose it's worth the wait of about about ten years for the show to finally get into the cool time travel stuff. 

Going back to our history discussion from last week, did you all learn about Monmouth? (It was a draw but the kind of draw where the USA goes into the Estadio Azteca and takes a point). I'm surprised Claire actually didn't say anything. Of course, whatever the outcome of the battle, Jamie himself may not have survived. I've said before, I don't care for Jamie being an actual General of the Revolution in terms of the plot. It's not like the author was changing the outcome of the Revolution, so what's there new to mine?

Given they showed Frank's book, I can buy Claire knowing a lot more than average about the Revolution, which we also talked about last week. 

I totally buy Claire being war-weary, but we know what happens. Unless she didn't know the outcome of the battle? I'm just not clear (ha!) on her 'this feels different'. She explained to Jamie what was happening with the Revolution ages ago. It's not like either of them are in real danger. I was surprised show-wise that Claire got shot because you'd think it would have been Jamie. Of course Hunter was sent away already. There's only two doctors in the entire Revolution. That said, it was exciting and suspenseful, and Lafayette still comes to the rescue! With his cheese!

Something to be said that you know the characters are going to pull through and you're still right there in the moment. 

Buck continues to steal the show. Him and Roger are absolutely gold. And Buck knows way more about time travel than anyone. So smart to just 'send' a letter to Bree. I wish they actually said what was in the letter. Bree taking two kids back is massively shortsighted. She should have left the kids with their friends and go herself. 

For once, Claire mouthing off about being part of the medics really sold me. Watching her run the triage, and completely ignoring the sexist buffoon was excellent. I mean, not for nothing, Dr. Hunter is totally her gay bff, no? 

I was hoping we'd get a more tempered William. Three weeks worth of pissiness is getting to be much. I also don't care about his whore plot, even though I'm pro-whore. Who killed Harkness? I didn't even know he was dead. I have zero interest in his plot with Jane, and it brings nothing additional to the show when you have Bree, Roger, and Buck being sidelined. 

I suspect it's been the upping of the pace of the show, but they've really been bringing it all around. 

8 hours ago, jacourt said:

Remember Claire scrapping something off the Roquefort cheese at the dinner?  Now they make a point of having some. Maybe there is something in the covering of the cheese that saves her. 

When Rachel said the cheese was Roquefort, Claire said 'penicillin'. Credit to the writers, Claire and Hunter doing the exploratory surgery earlier this season, the guy is literally the most skilled in-time doctor of his time. They can easily make an antibiotic out of the cheese. We all know Claire is pulling through; I'm crediting the writing for laying it all out for us to buy in at this point. 

 

[taanja]

On 1/4/2025 at 6:51 PM, Cosmocrush said:

True, but I am curious how she gets out of this one; a gunshot to the gut is pretty bad and often fatal, even now.  

I was thinking the whole time -- I KNOW Claire isn't going to die -- but how in hell will she survive? No antibiotics (except cheese of some kind? weird!) No real anesthesia. and certainly NO sterile conditions! I mean -- dude was operating with his fat dirty bare hands!

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Was the opening tease supposed to be Frank and Bree looking at the portrait of Jamie?

Yes, but the main was of Molly Pitcher, and if you zoom, you will see Claire left side bottom, tending to a wounded soldier.

12 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I was hoping we'd get a more tempered William. Three weeks worth of pissiness is getting to be much. I also don't care about his whore plot, even though I'm pro-whore. Who killed Harkness? I didn't even know he was dead.

I so am not interested in Willie, and it was Jane who killed Harkness. She confessed that to Willie last episode? Or the one where she shows up with her sister and tells him why/how she killed him. He was going to rape Fanny.

4 minutes ago, taanja said:

I was thinking the whole time -- I KNOW Claire isn't going to die -- but how in hell will she survive? No antibiotics (except cheese of some kind? weird!) No real anesthesia. and certainly NO sterile conditions! I mean -- dude was operating with his fat dirty bare hands!

Well, there was anesthesia-Claire created it, remember? I'm sure she brought some with her; of course, I don't think I saw it being used-just giving Claire, alcohol? Or whatever it was to knock her out.  And Denzell, when he finally showed up, did wash his hands and sterilize the instruments. Sure the conditions aren't sterile, but they weren't in the field hospitals at that time all the way through early 20th century. They did the best they could.

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well, there was anesthesia-Claire created it, remember? I'm sure she brought some with her; of course, I don't think I saw it being used-just giving Claire, alcohol? Or whatever it was to knock her out. 

He's also experienced in the exploratory surgery from before too. We all know Claire is going to be fine, but at least the plotting holds up. I think the main point here is that Jamie resigned his commission and is just done with war. 

I mean, what are they, 60 now?

 

[taanja]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

He's also experienced in the exploratory surgery from before too. We all know Claire is going to be fine, but at least the plotting holds up. I think the main point here is that Jamie resigned his commission and is just done with war. 

I mean, what are they, 60 now?

 

 I knew Claire wasn't/isn't going to die. Did they still have any ether left? They've been gone from the Ridge a long time and they've been using the stuff on wounded soldiers.

Um sorry! before antibiotics - just washing hands was NOT sterile. And I don't care how much mold is in that cheeses -- it's not really the right kind to make penicillin. But hey - Whatever. Like I said -- Plot armor and the fact that she is freaking narrating the whole story means NO WAY is Claire dying! No! Way!

I don't really care much about that William dude but I do like The Adventures of Roger and Buck

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think the main point here is that Jamie resigned his commission and is just done with war. 

I mean, what are they, 60 now?

Yep, just about.

And I'm blaming you, @DoctorAtomic for me wanting to see that asshat Lee, and wondering where Talmadge was because after you and others kept bringing up Turn, of COURSE I went ahead and watched it! Which made Jamie resigning and the way he did, all the more delicious for me. And other reasons, but I can't say because this isn't the buik thread!

[Haleth]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yep, just about.

And I'm blaming you, @DoctorAtomic for me wanting to see that asshat Lee, and wondering where Talmadge was because after you and others kept bringing up Turn, of COURSE I went ahead and watched it! Which made Jamie resigning and the way he did, all the more delicious for me. And other reasons, but I can't say because this isn't the buik thread!

Totally off topic:  Yes, Turn was really good. I read the book it was based on, Washington’s Spies by Alex Rose (nonfiction) and was delightfully surprised when one of my ancestors popped up as someone who helped the cause. Who knows?  Maybe he ran across Jamie and Claire at some point. 😄

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Totally off topic:  Yes, Turn was really good. I read the book it was based on, Washington’s Spies by Alex Rose (nonfiction) and was delightfully surprised when one of my ancestors popped up as someone who helped the cause. Who knows?  Maybe he ran across Jamie and Claire at some point. 😄

I know!  I read all the comments from the Vaulted forum because there were no new ones in the now "general" thread. My poor heid couldna handle all the incorrect uses of grammar and misplacements of apostrophes in there.

[DoctorAtomic]

Turn was watchable and fun, but I don't know if I would go into 'good'. However, the actors clearly were having a blast. Especially Angus. I think Washington was portrayed better in Turn, in terms of anxiety and depression. 

As much as I wanted Outlander to stay in the South, if they had to go into the typical historical areas; Philadelphia, New York; it would have been more interesting if Claire and Jamie were spies. Washington was mid 40s at this point on the show, if not early 40s, and he's promoting a 60 y/o to General? Jamie really shouldn't be on the battlefield at this point. 

[TV Anonymous]

Time travel done sparingly as in the earlier seasons is interesting. Now that our heroes jump back and forth between periods it becomes gimmicky and the show opens itself to questions as it makes less and less sense. 

What happens in the present if the present characters in the past do something in real-time that alters the present? Will the present sees changes happen immediately like in Looper? Case in point, did the letter from Roger just appear in the drawer in the present as he put that in in the past? Speaking of the drawer, nobody cleaned that desk for the whole 250+ years?

[oceanblue]

Right!  That means that over time, Brian, Jamie and Ian have used that desk, and Jenny and their kids have been in and out of the room, AND the people who lived at Lallybroch in between Ian's son's death and Roger and Brianna buying it and no one looked in that drawer, saw a letter addressed to Brianna and got curious.   BUT if Brianna is going through the stones to look for Roger will they all know who she is and why they should leave the letter?

[Cdh20]

On 1/7/2025 at 9:40 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

Turn was watchable and fun, but I don't know if I would go into 'good'. However, the actors clearly were having a blast. Especially Angus. I think Washington was portrayed better in Turn, in terms of anxiety and depression. 

As much as I wanted Outlander to stay in the South, if they had to go into the typical historical areas; Philadelphia, New York; it would have been more interesting if Claire and Jamie were spies. Washington was mid 40s at this point on the show, if not early 40s, and he's promoting a 60 y/o to General? Jamie really shouldn't be on the battlefield at this point. 

Jamie is 57

[taanja]

On 1/8/2025 at 7:34 AM, TV Anonymous said:

Time travel done sparingly as in the earlier seasons is interesting. Now that our heroes jump back and forth between periods it becomes gimmicky and the show opens itself to questions as it makes less and less sense. 

What happens in the present if the present characters in the past do something in real-time that alters the present? Will the present sees changes happen immediately like in Looper? Case in point, did the letter from Roger just appear in the drawer in the present as he put that in in the past? Speaking of the drawer, nobody cleaned that desk for the whole 250+ years?

Right! 

The minute Bree found the letter just sitting there 200plus year later i said out loud - Oh hell no!

In all those years not a soul ever opened that drawer?

And when the little (boy? girl?) ran into the stones ... I was thinking -- will he/she go somewhere different from where his/her mother and brother go since he/she ran ahead and will go through the stones not holding hands? << or even thinking the same thoughts.

Because sometimes they describe the time travel as what you are THINKING as you go through the stones.

Which brings me to Buck. How could he possibly envision the future? Even if -- as someone surmised -- that he was thinking of "family" why would that entail Roger? As far as Buck knew -- Roger was just some random dude he tried to hang a couple years back. 

The time travel actually takes me out of the show. It almost always seems so illogical. Or fabricated to work only when it needs to work for plot.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, taanja said:

In all those years not a soul ever opened that drawer?

I think the letter was stuck in the back and when Bree shook it and reached into it, felt it and pulled it out.

4 minutes ago, taanja said:

And when the little (boy? girl?) ran into the stones ... I was thinking -- will he/she go somewhere different from where his/her mother and brother go since he/she ran ahead and will go through the stones not holding hands? << or even thinking the same thoughts.

It was Mandy, who said "Da" or "Daddy" and ran toward the stones with Jemmy and Bree following. We don't know that she got through before Bree caught her or not. We know they're all thinking the same-because Bree told them to think of "Daddy" when going through.

7 minutes ago, taanja said:

The time travel actually takes me out of the show. It almost always seems so illogical.

Well this show is premised on time travel. It's how Claire met Jaime.

[taanja]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well this show is premised on time travel. It's how Claire met Jaime.

I will have to wait and see what happens to Bree and the kids.

But yes. The time travel. It's what appealed to me at first about this show. But I only only ever read the first book. 

IMO the show does a half-assed job at explaining the time travel. And at first it was sort of rare and special.

Now? Everybody's traipsing back and forth like Grand Central Station. People from the past are going forward. Children are willy nilly running through them. It's chaos! LOL

 

[Ziggy]

On 1/8/2025 at 7:34 AM, TV Anonymous said:

Time travel done sparingly as in the earlier seasons is interesting. Now that our heroes jump back and forth between periods it becomes gimmicky and the show opens itself to questions as it makes less and less sense.

 

1 hour ago, taanja said:

Now? Everybody's traipsing back and forth like Grand Central Station. People from the past are going forward. Children are willy nilly running through them. It's chaos! LOL

Ok, I do get your point, but I think it's important to look at the difference between the show, itself, in Season 1 vs. Season 7 (and all the Seasons in between)

In Season 1, all we knew was Claire and the MacKenzies of Leoch (and a few other random characters).  It's in Season 1 that we meet Geillis Duncan, and (mind blown) she's a time traveler, too.

In the next few seasons, the world grows, both geographically and in the characters we meet.  As the world grows, it would be stranger if we didn't meet more characters who could time travel.

By Season 7, if you really think about the number of characters than can time travel, it's not that many (Claire, Bree, Roger (Jem & Mandy), Geillis ... Windego Donner, Buck .... anyone else).  Buck is the only traveler we've met who can go forward from his "time," since one could argue that Jem & Mandy could easily call the 20th Century their time.

Claire has been through the Stones 3 times

Bree & Roger two times (the kids just once)

Geillis, Windego and Buck once each.

Roger was writing a book about Time Travel as a way of protecting Jem & Mandy.  He and Bree talked about the book throughout the 1st part of Season 7.  It's a major part of their story in Season 7, so it feels much bigger than it really is.

If you pay close attention to the details of their conversations, they are trying to figure out how it all works:  gem stones, lay lines, blood sacrifice?, 202 years, Geillis went back farther, how did Buck travel to the future ... these are all the questions they are asking.  They don't have answers to all of them, yet, but they are trying to figure it out.

1 hour ago, taanja said:

IMO the show does a half-assed job at explaining the time travel.

The show is explaining it through the characters.  We know as much as they know.

[DoctorAtomic]

4 hours ago, taanja said:

The minute Bree found the letter just sitting there 200plus year later i said out loud - Oh hell no!

In all those years not a soul ever opened that drawer?

I can get the point here, and I talk about time travel all the time too. But, they did show all those letters that Claire and Jamie wrote in the past that Roger and Bree eventually received in 1980, leading to this whole Jem abduction nonsense, so the mechanism is consistent in-show at least. Roger and Bree opened up the house being boarded up for how long? I mean, it's possible no one opened the drawer. But, yes, plot. At this point, what can you do?

TPTBs are constrained by the books, so there's only so much they can do. 

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

The show is explaining it through the characters.  We know as much as they know.

Yes, but, this is really the first time in the show that anyone is really talking about it all of a sudden. There's no way someone with an engineering/stem/history mind like Bree, who invented the yarn spinning wheel and *matches* wouldn't be thinking about it A LOT before now. 

[Ziggy]

Isn’t the drawer in question a trick drawer? It was a fluke that Roger discovered it, and Bree was about to use it hoping Roger would specially look there.

I agree that it’s quite fortunate that Roger’s letter to Bree was still there, but not completely crazy. It wasn’t a drawer that was used regularly.

Also, keep in mind, “coincidence” is Outlander’s middle name.

[taanja]

10 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Also, keep in mind, “coincidence” is Outlander’s middle name.

^^^Best line ever! haha!

Anyway, I didn't know about the drawer being 'secret'  so cool. I'll buy it.

As to the other letters. Claire and Jaime specifically had them placed somewhere/locked somewhere safe until the 20th century when (I can't remember? -- Fiona?) brought them to Bree and Roger -- all sealed and in a box/case/casket. So I can see why those letters got to Bree and Roger.

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, taanja said:

Anyway, I didn't know about the drawer being 'secret'  so cool. I'll buy it.

In Episode 5 (of Season 7), in the last 10 minutes, Roger shows Bree the drawer.  She calls it a hidden drawer, and he said he found it earlier when something got stuck.  They don't go into detail, but it looks like Roger was reaching along the top of the drawer for a latch or something.

[DoctorAtomic]

It would have been a little helpful if Roger said to Bree before he and Buck went back - Check out the secret draw, I'll get you a message when I can. 

[oceanblue]

But did he know he was going back to Lallybroch?  It just dawned on me that the gold was in North Carolina.  Why is Roger looking around his house instead of going there?   And why didn't he fly to NC in 1980 and go through the other stones instead of going through in Scotland and taking a ship with a sail?   That didn't work super well the last time.

[DoctorAtomic]

iirc, the plan was for Roger to catch them before they got on a boat to NC. Him and Bree thought the guy took Jem through the Scotland stones, so he followed. 

He did intend to go to the house for help in the past because he knew Jenny and them would be there to help out. He was surprised when Jamie's dad answered the door and quickly worked out he went too far back into the past than he thought.

[oceanblue]

That makes sense thank you