S14.E00 Christmas Special 2024

[txhorns79]

Quote

It’s Christmastime in 1969, but fears of the flu and an escaped prisoner loom over Nonnatus House.

Episode airs 12/25/24.

[Quilt Fairy]

Very nice, but I would have preferred only a half a dozen stories compared to the dozen or so they crammed in here.

Also, thanks, PBS, for the jump edit that cut into the final scene with a teaser for the new season of Find Your Roots.  Very broadcast network of you.   

[txhorns79]

Did they cut a plotline regarding Cyril?  He got that letter from Lucille, complained to his church friend about it saying nothing, then it was not mentioned again. 

And dear God, was there any plotline more boring and less suspenseful than Reggie going missing?  I never got the sense he was in any real danger and couldn't bring myself to care.  

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Very nice, but I would have preferred only a half a dozen stories compared to the dozen or so they crammed in here.

Rosalind was lucky she wasn't harmed by the escaped prisoner, and LOL at Cyril attempting to make a citizen's arrest.   

Not sure what to make of Nancy's new guy.  Depending on the show, it could be a red flag that he's asking to meet her kid after one date, or they are on their way to marriage.

Edited 20 hours ago by txhorns79

[Ancaster]

I just have to say that the escaped prisoner plotline was one of the most ludicrous and badly acted that I've seen in ages.

[Notabug]

37 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Did they cut a plotline regarding Cyril?  He got that letter from Lucille, complained to his church friend about it saying nothing, then it was not mentioned again. 

I think they are setting up a divorce from Lucille and Cyril entering an interracial romance with the woman from the church.

This was a rather disjointed episode and could've used some tighter writing and editing.  Not my favorite Christmas episode, maybe my least favorite.

I presume the show tonight was both Christmas episodes for this year since it lasted 2 hours and the credits at the end were labeled 'episode 1' and 'episode 2'.

Edited 20 hours ago by Notabug

[Andyourlittledog2]

I feel like I just spent two hours trapped in a Hallmark greeting card.

I'm always glad to see this show on my menu but I almost expire from the overdose of treacle each year. I don't need the show as conceived by Tarantino but they could really cut down on the sugary plotlines and the overwhelmingly unrealistic characterizations. The concept is wonderful but it just gets bogged down with all this to the point that I fear diabetes is inevitable.

And again with the smarmy purple prose of elderly Jenny to bring us in and out of the episode. I hoped Redgrave would eventually be unable to continue doing this but this year I realized that they'd just find someone else to take over exactly the same or heaven forbid use AI to mimic her voice.

Like someone else said, way too many plots to keep track of, people acting in completely unrealistic ways. Seriously, even in 1969 no young woman, no matter how naive, would follow that gruff lunging disheveled man into an old run down building alone like that. It only worked out fine because the writers made it so.

This show desperately needs a new writer. Or better writers. Or a good editor. Something.

And yet I watch.

Edited 19 hours ago by Andyourlittledog2
typo

[debraran]

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Did they cut a plotline regarding Cyril?  He got that letter from Lucille, complained to his church friend about it saying nothing, then it was not mentioned again. 

And dear God, was there any plotline more boring and less suspenseful than Reggie going missing?  I never got the sense he was in any real danger and couldn't bring myself to care.  

Rosalind was lucky she wasn't harmed by the escaped prisoner, and LOL at Cyril attempting to make a citizen's arrest.   

Not sure what to make of Nancy's new guy.  Depending on the show, it could be a red flag that he's asking to meet her kid after one date, or they are on their way to marriage.

Lucille is gone, the sooner they cut the cord is better. Don't try to replace her, just let it go. Since it's the 60's, Cyril with someone else, slowly introduced will be interesting, but having him pretend they are pen pals now is silly.

[Calvada]

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Did they cut a plotline regarding Cyril?  He got that letter from Lucille, complained to his church friend about it saying nothing, then it was not mentioned again. 

And dear God, was there any plotline more boring and less suspenseful than Reggie going missing?  I never got the sense he was in any real danger and couldn't bring myself to care.  

Rosalind was lucky she wasn't harmed by the escaped prisoner, and LOL at Cyril attempting to make a citizen's arrest.   

Not sure what to make of Nancy's new guy.  Depending on the show, it could be a red flag that he's asking to meet her kid after one date, or they are on their way to marriage.

There was a lot crammed into this.  I too wondered whether PBS cut something regarding Cyril & the letter. That could be an interesting plot, whether Lucille and Cyril split up, given his role as a minister.  I'm assuming he would be conflicted about the prospect of divorce.  But I agree with @debraran, they need to do something to resolve this.  

At least it was Reggie who had gone missing, and they didn't return once again to the "OMG Sister Monica Joan has wandered off!" story line. 

I had read an article previewing this Christmas special and Heidi Thomas teased a cliffhanger ending.  What was that?  The future of Nonnatus House and whether the midwives and nuns would continue in Poplar?  Hasn't that been an ongoing story line?  I'm not sure that qualifies as a cliffhanger to me.  Or was it supposed to be whether Nancy's new guy is too good to be true?  

I need to watch this again, when I'm not wiped out after a large family gathering.  I usually watch CTM with the captioning turned on, since I often miss what someone says, but I forgot to turn on CC and I was too tired to get out of my chair and find the remote on the coffee table about three feet away!  I got distracted at one point by some pictures my niece was sending me of her daughter and I completely missed how Nancy's guy got hurt.  I could have rewound to see that, but again, the remote was soooo far away.  

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Very nice, but I would have preferred only a half a dozen stories compared to the dozen or so they crammed in here.

 

Oh yes, moving from one plot to another so quickly that I don't become invested in any. I would have preferred they keep the focus on the evicted couple with the sick child.  Their dire poverty reminded me of the early series when I was still caring.

They are not only trying to do too much, they are obviously splicing in at least two babies being born in every episode because they know we like that and it becomes ridiculous when they don't do it with any finesse.

Reggie has been very well brought up by his family and his school and the first thing he would have been taught was his phone number and when to find a phone booth and call home.  The midwives would all have been warned about personal safety when dealing with men and told to call the police over bleeding bums and wait for their arrival before lending first aid. Trixie's cameos seem to pop in from another place and time.

5 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

And yet I watch.

Me too, Andy, me too.

[tvrox]

Too much in this episode! Wasn't Trixie staying in London while her husband and son went to New York? What happened with that? What was even the point of Nancy's love interest getting hurt? Where was the feel good ending? I don't even care about Lucille at this point, so why the letter. Reggie is great, but I knew he would be found. UGHHH. I love CTM but this one didn't do anything for me. 

And maybe the Hong Kong flu storyline felt too close with the anniversary of COVID coming up and the increasing bird flu fears. 

[tvrox]

Tim wasn't in this episode right? They mentioned him but am just now realizing I didn't see him. 

[debraran]

I watched half yesterday and finished this morning, just too tired. It had the usual Hallmark feeling but maybe because I'm a bit ADD, too many story lines seem crowded. Reggie lost was not a scary thing, you knew he'd be fine and they should have him know to ask for help and have his phone # on him. That is just being responsible if he is going somewhere alone.

The crook was realistic in that there was no happy ending but he was able to pay tribute to his mom and still had to pay for his past deeds. Dying alone though does bring light to how many in our world have that happen every day.

I think the romance with Nancy is too rushed....that bothers me. He doesn't know her really and wants to be with her kid that quickly? IDK, maybe will have issues later, but it is something nice if real.

I hope the mom living in squalor will find a home but that also is realistic. The idea of rats and children in a home is not something anyone should deal with but they do. We had articles of mice running rampant in our states "for poor" housing...a constant struggle among other things.

I know Trixie will be back since her husband was written out. The fact they didn't even have a phone call with him was telling, no voice, no 1 minute clip of him on phone, nothing. It will seem stilted with Trixie until they decide what they are doing. His son will be forgotten and not mentioned as they didn't even on a Xmas show.

Edited 11 hours ago by debraran

[txhorns79]

7 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

And again with the smarmy purple prose of elderly Jenny to bring us in and out of the episode. I hoped Redgrave would eventually be unable to continue doing this but this year I realized that they'd just find someone else to take over exactly the same or heaven forbid use AI to mimic her voice.

I don't mind her voice overs, but it is amusing that the voice overs have lasted eleven more seasons than the actual character did on the show. 

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

The midwives would all have been warned about personal safety when dealing with men and told to call the police over bleeding bums and wait for their arrival before lending first aid.

This.  It was crazy to me that Rosalind took off after a random bleeding man into what appeared to be a vacant, derelict building. 

7 minutes ago, tvrox said:

Tim wasn't in this episode right? They mentioned him but am just now realizing I didn't see him. 

Correct.  They said he had to do doctor-training related stuff during the holiday.

3 minutes ago, debraran said:

Reggie lost was not a scary thing, you knew he'd be fine and they should have him know to ask for help and have his phone # on him. That is just being responsible if he is going somewhere alone.

I do feel like Reggie's abilities change as the plot requires.  I was surprised that he rides the bus without an escort given how easily things fell apart for him when Fred was delayed getting to the station. 

[MMEButterfly]

22 minutes ago, debraran said:

I watched half yesterday and finished this morning, just too tired. It had the usual Hallmark feeling but maybe because I'm a bit ADD, too many story lines seem crowded. Reggie lost was not a scary thing, you knew he'd be fine and they should have him know to ask for help and have his phone # on him. That is just being responsible if he is going somewhere alone.

The crook was realistic in that there was no happy ending but he was able to pay tribute to his mom and still had to pay for his past deeds. Dying alone though does bring light to how many in our world have that happen every day.

I think the romance with Nancy is too rushed....that bothers me. He doesn't know her really and wants to be with her kid that quickly? IDK, maybe will have issues later, but it is something nice if real.

I hope the mom living in squalor will find a home but that also is realistic. The idea or rats and children in a home is not something anyone should deal with but they do.

I know Trixie will be back since her husband was written out. The fact they didn't even have a phone call with him was telling, no voice, no 1 minute clip of him on phone, nothing. It will seem stilted with Trixie until they decide what they are doing. His son will be forgotten and not mentioned as they didn't even on a Xmas show.

She will remain Lady Aylward though, and that could be interesting. 

[Notabug]

4 minutes ago, MMEButterfly said:

She will remain Lady Aylward though, and that could be interesting. 

It seems like we're supposed to think that Trixie misses midwifery too much to spend a year in the US with her husband and young child to improve the family finances.  I suspect she will be returning to Nonnatus permanently and carrying on a long distance marriage/parenting which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  She's right, her midwifery credentials would not be transferable to the US; but there are plenty of pregnancy/childbirth related jobs she could get.  Midwifery was still quite rare in the US in 1969.

Between this and Lucille chucking her marriage aside and moving back to Jamaica due to grief over a miscarriage; the writers seem to be taking the lazy way out these days and tossing any old nonsense at us.

Edited 11 hours ago by Notabug

[txhorns79]

8 minutes ago, Notabug said:

She's right, her midwifery credentials would not be transferable to the US; but there are plenty of pregnancy/childbirth related jobs she could get.  Midwifery was still quite rare in the US in 1969.

I don't recall, but Trixie is a trained nurse, as well as a midwife, no?  I know her credentials still would not transfer (she'd likely have to attend nursing school classes in the US and pass the nursing boards for New York), but I do think she has qualifications beyond just midwifery. 

 

10 minutes ago, Notabug said:

 

Between this and Lucille chucking her marriage aside and moving back to Jamaica due to grief over a miscarriage; the writers seem to be taking the lazy way out these days and tossing any old nonsense at us.

I thought she went back to Jamaica because there was a pushback against immigrants in the UK, and it became too much for her to remain there?  I didn't really understand why they didn't just write Cyril off with Lucille. 

[RowdyCam]

What was the deal with the couple that worked at the fair? Did they both have some cognitive limitations that made them not realize their baby was sick? 

[Notabug]

5 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't recall, but Trixie is a trained nurse, as well as a midwife, no?  I know her credentials still would not transfer (she'd likely have to attend nursing school classes in the US and pass the nursing boards for New York), but I do think she has qualifications beyond just midwifery. 

 

I thought she went back to Jamaica because there was a pushback against immigrants in the UK, and it became too much for her to remain there?  I didn't really understand why they didn't just write Cyril off with Lucille. 

In the US, there are different paths to midwifery, but the most common one, becoming a certified nurse midwife, would require getting an RN first. A CNM is a type of nurse practitioner and is usually done as a 2 year Master's degree program.  I don't know what the training is for midwives in the UK, but if it is anything like the way doctors are trained, it is completely incompatible with the US system.  A British physician who comes to the US and practice would have to complete a full residency program in the US before being granted a license even if he/she was a top specialist in their field with years in practice in the UK.

In any event, if the point of their move to the US was to try to avoid bankruptcy, Trixie enrolling in a nursing program which they would probably have to pay for out of pocket, would make no sense; especially since it seems like they do not intend to stay there permanently.

Lucille was certainly the victim of racism; but it seemed like the main reason she wanted to return home to see her family was her depression after the miscarriage.  She seemed to distance herself emotionally from Cyril in the aftermath and wanted to get away.  That she is seemingly now treating him like a pen pal rather than a partner seems to be part of that.

[Notabug]

9 minutes ago, RowdyCam said:

What was the deal with the couple that worked at the fair? Did they both have some cognitive limitations that made them not realize their baby was sick? 

I think they had very little prenatal care and no idea of proper newborn behavior and care.  They may not have graduated top of the class, but I don't think they had intellectual disabilities.  They just didn't know and didn't have her mother or others to rely on after they went home.  Because they didn't have a permanent address, they were overlooked when the nurses who do postpartum visits were assigned. Also, newborn seizures are usually very subtle and don't look like seizures in an older child or adult.  Even medical professionals can miss them at first.

It was kind of funny in this episode when everyone was lamenting how soon women were being sent home.  If only she'd been in the hospital for 5 days after birth, that woman's episiotomy would've never gotten infected!  If only the baby stayed in the nursery long term, his jaundice would've been caught sooner!  Aside from the fact that just a couple of years ago, these midwives were doing virtually all of their deliveries in the home and not the hospital; almost no one nowadays is staying in the hospital for 5 days after a vaginal birth, in part, because there is plenty of evidence that it doesn't prevent complications and that some complications, like pulmonary embolism, are more common in hospitalized patients.

Edited 11 hours ago by Notabug

[dancingdreamer]

What a sweet little  show, it was a pretty packed 2 hours. I'm glad Reggie  was okay. We always watch  this around  Christmas , and love it, warts and all. 

I was okay until Phyllis tied the convicts  tie. "Come here lad,make her proud". i got a lump in my throat, 

[marceline]

What is even the point of the Turner family shenanigans at this point? Shelia has lost all depth. She's basically the sitcom mom of three creepy children and yes, the Turner children are creepy. I recently did a rewatch of last season and whenever I see May, I think of that awful trip to the shore was where she nearly drowned. Meanwhile Teddy is asking Santa for a guinea pig and I'm still wondering what happened to the tortoise he got last year.

Edited 8 hours ago by marceline

[amarante]

I am very glad to know that my Scroogian view of this episode seem to be universal and not because I am a damned to hell irredeemable reprobate. 

And I should add that I avoid all Christmas specials and movies like the plague but I have a soft spot for the English shows that are essentially period pieces like this And All Creatures but I do have my limits.

Just stick a fork in the ridiculous plot line of Lucille remaining in Jamaica while still married. Everything prior to this idiocy characterized her as extremely religious who loved Cyrill and so would not have stayed in Jamaica - or at least both of them would have discussed his moving back to the Caribbean.

Nothing before portrayed Reggie as anything other than a rather high functional person with DS. Even a child would have either gone to someone at the terminal OR looked for a policeman or even a woman who looked trustworthy and asked them to phone - because Reggie would certainly have known his phone and address. Most children are taught that in first grade and Reggie functions at a higher level or he would have been given a card with contact information and explicit instructions.

 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, RowdyCam said:

What was the deal with the couple that worked at the fair? Did they both have some cognitive limitations that made them not realize their baby was sick? 

I didn't get that first watch. Is that what she meant by "she wouldn't feel bad about her baby if disabled?" Subtle enough that I didn't see it

[Notabug]

11 minutes ago, debraran said:

I didn't get that first watch. Is that what she meant by "she wouldn't feel bad about her baby if disabled?" Subtle enough that I didn't see it

The baby had kernicterus which happens when the bilirubin level is so high that it damages the brain. It's the most severe form of newborn jaundice, one that is rarely seen anymore.  That's what caused the seizures.  While some infants recover completely after the initial insult, others do not.  The doctors told them that the baby might have permanent neurologic problems like cerebral palsy, deafness or intellectual disabilities.  They're not going to know if the baby has permanent injury for a while as they monitor his growth and development.

Edited 8 hours ago by Notabug

[amarante]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I didn't get that first watch. Is that what she meant by "she wouldn't feel bad about her baby if disabled?" Subtle enough that I didn't see it

Add this "anvil" of a storyline to the rest of the stupidity.

I believe the mother had Asian DNA - probably her father since presumably her mother was Caucasian which is why she gave her away when she saw what she looked like. There have been a few storylines in which the mother was either a prostitute; woman of low morals :-) or somehow wound up with a multiracial baby. I could be wrong but I think there was even a storyline in which a woman had an affair with a man who was a POC and her husband who was an older presumably infertile man accepted the baby without question - although that could have been a different sappy English show.

Because the mother had Asian DNA the yellow skin was just viewed as natural.

But the storyline existed in order - I suspect - to set up the "new" Nonatus which is viewed as important to providing health to those who are falling through the cracks of the impersonal St. Cuthbert but will not be overtly religious in terms of nuns.

I don't know how the nuns will feel about it but at least in the Catholic orders in the USA most nuns had given up the traditional garb and just wore modest regular clothing if they were in the community as opposed to being cloistered. 

Edited 6 hours ago by amarante

[Quilt Fairy]

6 hours ago, Calvada said:

had read an article previewing this Christmas special and Heidi Thomas teased a cliffhanger ending.  What was that?  The future of Nonnatus House and whether the midwives and nuns would continue in Poplar?  Hasn't that been an ongoing story line?  I'm not sure that qualifies as a cliffhanger to me.  Or was it supposed to be whether Nancy's new guy is too good to be true? 

Maybe this was a review of the show in the UK, where it was shown in 2 parts over Christmas and Boxing Day?  We got the 2nd hour early in the US, which I don't think has ever happened.  There would have been some kind of minor cliff-hanger around the 1 hour mark, but I don't know what it would have been. There were so many things to choose from.  Maybe Nancy's new guy finding out she has a child?

Otherwise, yes, probably the future of Nonnatus House in Poplar.  That Board of Health guy sure doesn't seem interested in actual "health" does he?  Talk about a cardboard cutout villain.  Did Sister Julienne kick his puppy when he was a kid or what?

Edited 7 hours ago by Quilt Fairy

[libgirl2]

I liked the storyline about the escaped prisoner. It was the only one that made me tear up. Other than that, it was okay for a Christmas special. 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

The baby had kernicterus which happens when the bilirubin level is so high that it damages the brain. It's the most severe form of newborn jaundice, one that is rarely seen anymore.  That's what caused the seizures.  While some infants recover completely after the initial insult, others do not.  The doctors told them that the baby might have permanent neurologic problems like cerebral palsy, deafness or intellectual disabilities.  They're not going to know if the baby has permanent injury for a while as they monitor his growth and development.

Oh I know that but another post was a question on the parents..were they disabled in some way because she seemed like she was not going to be like someone else. Her mom? They wondered if mom or dad had issues.

[Ceindreadh]

2 hours ago, amarante said:

Add this "anvil" of a storyline to the rest of the stupidity.

I believe the mother had Asian DNA - probably her father since presumably her mother was Caucasian which is why she gave her away when she saw what she looked like. There have been a few storylines in which the mother was either a prostitute; woman of low morals :-) or somehow wound up with a multiracial baby. I could be wrong but I think there was even a storyline in which a woman had an affair with a man who was a POC and her husband who was an older presumably infertile man accepted the baby without question - although that could have been a different sappy English show.

 

That was in the early seasons of this show.  I read the books and it's one of the actual cases in the books as well, so sappy as it may be, it did actually happen for real!

[Jodithgrace]

Her mom left her in the hospital because she wasn’t white, so she didn't know anything about either of her parents. In fact, I wonder how she knew why her mother gave her up. But because she was given up at birth, she and her husband were determined to not give up on their baby even if he does turn out to be disabled.

when I was born, in 1950, my mother had to stay in the hospital for two weeks! By the time my children were born, in the 1970s, it was just a few days. Now they kick you out the next day, if there are no complications. But that’s in the US. The personal care that the mothers in Poplar got is amazing to me.

Yes, the show is saccharine and there don’t seem to be any permanent consequences for anybody. Even Tim’s polio miraculously disappeared. And they can’t seem to let Lucille go, despite the actress calling it quits. So of course Reggie was going to find his way home, in time for Christmas. But I still can’t resist it, jam covered babies and all.

 

[amarante]

35 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

That was in the early seasons of this show.  I read the books and it's one of the actual cases in the books as well, so sappy as it may be, it did actually happen for real!

I found that episode to be far more nuanced and not sappy at all. 

I think it is a good illustration of how the show has become more one dimensional as it moves further away from reality. 

I realize health care - especially for poor communities - is complicated but I can’t really disagree with being suspicious of health care for women being administered by a religious organization. At least in the USA religion has been used as a way of depriving women of choices versus a secular organization like Planned Parenthood. 🤷‍♀️

As I recall even the free thinking nun of Nonatus had issues with the pill being prescribed for unmarried women. Of course in that episode even secular medicine wanted to limit its use. 

[amarante]

1 hour ago, Jodithgrace said:

Her mom left her in the hospital because she wasn’t white, so she didn't know anything about either of her parents. In fact, I wonder how she knew why her mother gave her up. But because she was given up at birth, she and her husband were determined to not give up on their baby even if he does turn out to be disabled.

when I was born, in 1950, my mother had to stay in the hospital for two weeks! By the time my children were born, in the 1970s, it was just a few days. Now they kick you out the next day, if there are no complications. But that’s in the US. The personal care that the mothers in Poplar got is amazing to me.

Yes, the show is saccharine and there don’t seem to be any permanent consequences for anybody. Even Tim’s polio miraculously disappeared. And they can’t seem to let Lucille go, despite the actress calling it quits. So of course Reggie was going to find his way home, in time for Christmas. But I still can’t resist it, jam covered babies and all.

 

Because woman were being discharged so soon, there is a law in which insurance must pay for at least 48 hours for uncomplicated vaginal deliveries and I think 72 hours for a C section. 

In the 1950’s women stayed for at least a week and children weren’t allowed to visit. 
 

[Crashcourse]

Maybe I missed it because there was so much jammed into this episode, but did the pregnant wife's sick husband die?

[Quilt Fairy]

22 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Maybe I missed it because there was so much jammed into this episode, but did the pregnant wife's sick husband die?

He was just shipped off to the hospital with pneumonia, I don't remember any follow-up. 

[Ancaster]

29 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Maybe I missed it because there was so much jammed into this episode, but did the pregnant wife's sick husband die?

He was shown at the Christmas dinner at the end.

[caitmcg]

I guess it stands to reason that if there are two plots too many in an hourlong episode, there are four plots too many in a double-length episode. All in all, this one did feel pretty much just like a supersized regular episode, albeit set at the holidays, compareed with many past Christmas specials that were more thematic, whether set at home in Poplar or away somewhere.

8 hours ago, Notabug said:

It was kind of funny in this episode when everyone was lamenting how soon women were being sent home.  If only she'd been in the hospital for 5 days after birth, that woman's episiotomy would've never gotten infected!  If only the baby stayed in the nursery long term, his jaundice would've been caught sooner!  Aside from the fact that just a couple of years ago, these midwives were doing virtually all of their deliveries in the home and not the hospital; almost no one nowadays is staying in the hospital for 5 days after a vaginal birth, in part, because there is plenty of evidence that it doesn't prevent complications and that some complications, like pulmonary embolism, are more common in hospitalized patients.

It was clumsily written, but I thought the point was that in both cases, the new mothers had fallen through the cracks, in that they had given birth in the hospital, but were not getting the usual postnatal visits from Nonnatus staff (the first because they weren't notified of her discharge, the second because they didn't know where she was living since their caravan traveled with the fun fair). And as far as all the home births and those in Dr. Turner's maternity home, all of those were automatically followed up with home visits. Even now, the NHS offers 10 days of postnatal followup, including home visits, with a nurse or midwife, so a very different model than the US.

2 hours ago, amarante said:

I realize health care - especially for poor communities - is complicated but I can’t really disagree with being suspicious of health care for women being administered by a religious organization. At least in the USA religion has been used as a way of depriving women of choices versus a secular organization like Planned Parenthood. 🤷‍♀️

As I recall even the free thinking nun of Nonatus had issues with the pill being prescribed for unmarried women. Of course in that episode even secular medicine wanted to limit its use. 

I think especially this has to do with the fact that in the US, most religiously affiliated medical providers have been Catholic, and Catholic hospitals provide a lot of charity care but of course don't provide any contraception, tubal ligations, or abortion care. Incidentally, there's some interesting history around Protestant denominations' approach to choice, with some advocating for abortion rights prior to Roe v. Wade, and a concerted political effort to change that after. 

As far as limiting prescription of the pill, that pretty much mirrored affairs in the US, where for some time after its introduction in 1960, it was limited to married women for moralizing reasons. I remember my mother telling me that during the year or so before my parents married, she put a ring on her left ring finger when she went to Planned Parenthood in NYC because she was afraid they wouldn't prescribe her the pill if she were not (yet) married.

Edited 2 hours ago by caitmcg

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

Because woman were being discharged so soon, there is a law in which insurance must pay for at least 48 hours for uncomplicated vaginal deliveries and I think 72 hours for a C section. 

In the 1950’s women stayed for at least a week and children weren’t allowed to visit. 
 

It's 96 hours for a cesarean.  It's a federal law dating back to the Clinton administration.  Women can, of course, choose to leave sooner, but they cannot be discharged without their consent prior to the legal limits.

[Notabug]

48 minutes ago, caitmcg said:

I guess it stands to reason that if there are two plots too many in an hourlong episode, there are four plots too many in a double-length episode. All in all, this one did feel pretty much just like a supersized regular episode, albeit set at the holidays, compareed with many past Christmas specials that were more thematic, whether set at home in Poplar or away somewhere.

It was clumsily written, but I thought the point was that in both cases, the new mothers had fallen through the cracks, in that they had given birth in the hospital, but were not getting the usual postnatal visits from Nonnatus staff (the first because they weren't notified of her discharge, the second because they didn't know where she was living since their caravan traveled with the fun fair). And as far as all the home births and those in Dr. Turner's maternity home, all of those were automatically followed up with home visits. Even now, the NHS offers 10 days of postnatal followup, including home visits, with a nurse or midwife, so a very different model than the US.

 

I did part of my OB/GYN residency at a Catholic hospital and the strictness of the policies varied from place to place depending on who was in charge.  The hospital where I trained was run by a nun who understood that life is not black and white.  There was a committee that reviewed request for postpartum tubal ligations.  We had to submit the patient's information, and if approved, we could do the tubal after the delivery.  I can only remember one or two instances in 4 years where the committee denied the request.  Virtually any woman who had a prior cesarean and was having another one was approved.  We did several postpartum tubal ligations on our patients every month.  Meanwhile, there was another Catholic hospital across town where the residents would finish their residency never having done a postpartum tubal; I remember teaching one of their recent grads how to do them when I was a third year resident.

We also prescribed the pill and fitted diaphragms in our outpatient clinic at the hospital.  IUD's weren't popular at that time, so we didn't do them there or anywhere else, really.  The only rule was that we could not hand out samples of birth control pills to clinic patients and the hospital outpatient pharmacy did not stock birth control pills or diaphragms so patients had to take their prescriptions to the local neighborhood pharmacy to get filled.  Almost all of them were on Medicaid and didn't have to pay no matter where they got the meds.

Finally, as chief resident, I did a routine ultrasound on a patient at about 18 weeks of pregnancy and her baby had a lethal birth defect and would inevitably die shortly after birth.  I spoke to the nun in charge.  The hospital would not allow the termination to be done there, but, since my residency was also at a non-Catholic hospital, I could easily refer her to my colleagues there.  The only thing she requested was that, after discussing the baby's condition with the parents, that I tell them that, while they could choose to terminate the pregnancy, they could also opt to continue the pregnancy and let nature take its course when the baby was born presumably at term.  I didn't have any problem with that.  The patient chose to terminate immediately and it was done safely at the other hospital a day or two later.

[caitmcg]

16 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I did part of my OB/GYN residency at a Catholic hospital and the strictness of the policies varied from place to place depending on who was in charge.  The hospital where I trained was run by a nun who understood that life is not black and white.  There was a committee that reviewed request for postpartum tubal ligations.  We had to submit the patient's information, and if approved, we could do the tubal after the delivery.  I can only remember one or two instances in 4 years where the committee denied the request.  Virtually any woman who had a prior cesarean and was having another one was approved.  We did several postpartum tubal ligations on our patients every month.  Meanwhile, there was another Catholic hospital across town where the residents would finish their residency never having done a postpartum tubal; I remember teaching one of their recent grads how to do them when I was a third year resident.

We also prescribed the pill and fitted diaphragms in our outpatient clinic at the hospital.  IUD's weren't popular at that time, so we didn't do them there or anywhere else, really.  The only rule was that we could not hand out samples of birth control pills to clinic patients and the hospital outpatient pharmacy did not stock birth control pills or diaphragms so patients had to take their prescriptions to the local neighborhood pharmacy to get filled.  Almost all of them were on Medicaid and didn't have to pay no matter where they got the meds.

Finally, as chief resident, I did a routine ultrasound on a patient at about 18 weeks of pregnancy and her baby had a lethal birth defect and would inevitably die shortly after birth.  I spoke to the nun in charge.  The hospital would not allow the termination to be done there, but, since my residency was also at a non-Catholic hospital, I could easily refer her to my colleagues there.  The only thing she requested was that, after discussing the baby's condition with the parents, that I tell them that, while they could choose to terminate the pregnancy, they could also opt to continue the pregnancy and let nature take its course when the baby was born presumably at term.  I didn't have any problem with that.  The patient chose to terminate immediately and it was done safely at the other hospital a day or two later.

Sure. I don't think these variations have changed in decades since. Certainly in my own experiences adjacent to Catholic hospital issues, they were on the conservative end in that regard, and did not perform tubal ligations, terminations in exigent circumstances, or prescribe contraceptives or dispense them to inpatients. (This led to controversy when the smaller community hospital in the California city where I lived in the early '90s was going to merge with the larger Catholic hospital, meaning that the only full-service hospital in town would offer none of those services.)

[amarante]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

I did part of my OB/GYN residency at a Catholic hospital and the strictness of the policies varied from place to place depending on who was in charge.  The hospital where I trained was run by a nun who understood that life is not black and white.  There was a committee that reviewed request for postpartum tubal ligations.  We had to submit the patient's information, and if approved, we could do the tubal after the delivery.  I can only remember one or two instances in 4 years where the committee denied the request.  Virtually any woman who had a prior cesarean and was having another one was approved.  We did several postpartum tubal ligations on our patients every month.  Meanwhile, there was another Catholic hospital across town where the residents would finish their residency never having done a postpartum tubal; I remember teaching one of their recent grads how to do them when I was a third year resident.

We also prescribed the pill and fitted diaphragms in our outpatient clinic at the hospital.  IUD's weren't popular at that time, so we didn't do them there or anywhere else, really.  The only rule was that we could not hand out samples of birth control pills to clinic patients and the hospital outpatient pharmacy did not stock birth control pills or diaphragms so patients had to take their prescriptions to the local neighborhood pharmacy to get filled.  Almost all of them were on Medicaid and didn't have to pay no matter where they got the meds.

Finally, as chief resident, I did a routine ultrasound on a patient at about 18 weeks of pregnancy and her baby had a lethal birth defect and would inevitably die shortly after birth.  I spoke to the nun in charge.  The hospital would not allow the termination to be done there, but, since my residency was also at a non-Catholic hospital, I could easily refer her to my colleagues there.  The only thing she requested was that, after discussing the baby's condition with the parents, that I tell them that, while they could choose to terminate the pregnancy, they could also opt to continue the pregnancy and let nature take its course when the baby was born presumably at term.  I didn't have any problem with that.  The patient chose to terminate immediately and it was done safely at the other hospital a day or two later.

Bottom line is that religious beliefs impacted medical care and was determined by subjective standards instead of objective medical criteria. 

In terms of the show we “know” these nuns in terms of their portrayal but in the wider universe the bureaucrat was not wrong. 🤷‍♀️

 

[tvrox]

7 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Maybe this was a review of the show in the UK, where it was shown in 2 parts over Christmas and Boxing Day?  We got the 2nd hour early in the US, which I don't think has ever happened.  There would have been some kind of minor cliff-hanger around the 1 hour mark, but I don't know what it would have been. There were so many things to choose from.  Maybe Nancy's new guy finding out she has a child?

Otherwise, yes, probably the future of Nonnatus House in Poplar.  That Board of Health guy sure doesn't seem interested in actual "health" does he?  Talk about a cardboard cutout villain.  Did Sister Julienne kick his puppy when he was a kid or what?

It might have worked better as two episodes! It was just too much in one.