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S02.E08: Toil and Trouble

chitowngirl

By chitowngirl
in Elsbeth

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EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

(edited)

This was such a good takedown of the Law and Order world, particularly SVU. Over on the SVU board Marissa Hargitay takes so much abuse, as she and her character are considered egomaniacs who have dragged the show down. 
They call her character Olivia. 

Something wrong here. My edit isn’t working. It’s supposed to say Olivia. 

Oh no the system is deleting a word. Possibly a forbidden word?  

But that makes no sense as that term is used on the SVU board.  

Edited by EtheltoTillie
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Daff

Daff

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

Judge Crawford is played like he's the Devil. It's way over the top. Nobody acts that creepy IRL.

ME is very proficient at projecting an evil persona. He’s also expert at masking one behind benevolence as well.

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

This was such a good takedown of the Law and Order world, particularly SVU. Over on the SVU board Marissa Hargitay takes so much abuse, as she and her character are considered egomaniacs who have dragged the show down. 
They call her character Olivia. 

Something wrong here. My edit isn’t working. It’s supposed to say Olivia. 

Oh no the system is deleting a word. Possibly a forbidden word?  

But that makes no sense as that term is used on the SVU board.  

This site doesn’t like iPad keyboard functions. I have a hard time even reading a thread as it reloads due to error every 30 seconds or so. Near to impossible to complete a post, and most recently, I have been getting dumped off with message-site crashed.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
5 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

This was such a good takedown of the Law and Order world, particularly SVU. Over on the SVU board Marissa Hargitay takes so much abuse, as she and her character are considered egomaniacs who have dragged the show down. 
They call her character Olivia. 

Something wrong here. My edit isn’t working. It’s supposed to say Olivia. 

Oh no the system is deleting a word. Possibly a forbidden word?  

But that makes no sense as that term is used on the SVU board.  

Testing…testing…1, 2, 3, testing…

Olivia

@EtheltoTillie, messaging you with my findings.😉

 

 

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Judge Crawford is played like he's the Devil. It's way over the top. Nobody acts that creepy IRL.

1 hour ago, Daff said:

ME is very proficient at projecting an evil persona. He’s also expert at masking one behind benevolence as well.

I didn’t think Michael Emerson seemed to chew the scenery drapery any more than the usual dramedy villain, but then I haven’t watched him in anything since Lost, so I don’t have any visceral reactions to his character, except, yeah, we do see [almost see?] a nerdy-looking Judge beat someone to death with a baseball bat — which creates a lot of cognitive dissonance for the viewer. Typically on these Columbo-esque shows, a nerdy Judge killer would just use a gun. But here it makes sense, because of who he framed, his experience as a Judge with how evidence is evaluated, etc.

But, yeah, the plot writing does take advantage of ME’s unassuming physicality to create a creepy contrast with his character's ruthlessness.
And I guess, @Daff, ME has been typecast in recent roles?
I'm not watching predominantly creepy or violent stuff in general, so maybe that's why I haven't seen his recent work?

Edited by shapeshifter
grammar
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MerBearHou

MerBearHou

I missed the first 5 minutes of the episode so I kept thinking "where is Michael Emerson" as they've so touted in the previews.  From reading the above, I can imagine what I missed.  He was excellent all those years on Person of Interest so I look forward to seeing more of him as this plays out.  Carrie and he must have had fun being on the show / set together.

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possibilities

possibilities

The board glitches constantly even on a windows laptop using chrome. It's not about the ipad. I don't know what the problem is.

I don't think I'm finding the judge character super-creepy because of his method of murdering-- I've seen gorey stuff before. Hell, we saw it in this episode with the heel to the eye-- that murderer was terrible, but didn't seem creepy like the judge-- immoral, vicious, obnoxious, but not creepy. Whereas, I found the judge creepy even in his interaction with the Captain at the soiree.

7 take out containers: two rice, two main dishes, 2 appetizers, one dessert.

 

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AnimeMania

AnimeMania

16 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

I missed the first 5 minutes of the episode so I kept thinking "where is Michael Emerson" as they've so touted in the previews.  From reading the above, I can imagine what I missed.  He was excellent all those years on Person of Interest so I look forward to seeing more of him as this plays out.  Carrie and he must have had fun being on the show / set together.

Michael Emerson was nearer the end during the scene at the fancy fundraiser (see photo upthread).

Irlandesa

Irlandesa

10 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

I did see that later scene and I thought "is that it?"  So now knowing I missed him in the opening makes sense.  Thank you! @AnimeMania

You didn't miss him in the opening. The opening was the filming of the fake Father Crime procedural.  Michael Emerson's only scene was at the party later in the episode.  The other stuff being talked about were his scenes from last week.

I did pick on Law & Order vibes from the procedural, especially since they made the co-star a priest and Stabler is catholic.  But it had some nice jabs at fandom in general. 

 

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SoMuchTV

SoMuchTV

(edited)
15 hours ago, Daff said:

ME is very proficient at projecting an evil persona. He’s also expert at masking one behind benevolence as well.

 

11 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

He was excellent all those years on Person of Interest so I look forward to seeing more of him as this plays out.  Carrie and he must have had fun being on the show / set together.

He was also a creepy, smarmy character in another Kings show, Evil.  (Highly recommend, btw) 

I hope someone will explain the Olivia thing. I don’t follow that show, but the only name I can see for her is “saint.Olivia” which I really can’t see how that would be censored. 
 

oh wow- now that I’ve posted, I see the word “saint” (before “Olivia”) has been removed from the post. What the heck is going on here?

Edited by SoMuchTV
Editing to try to figure out what’s wrong with the post
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MerBearHou

MerBearHou

Ok, I feel like an idiot.  I realized tonight that I had missed an entire episode last week.  I was out of town last week and totally whiffed on there being a new episode last Thursday.  Now you can see why my questions were so off.  I’m now caught up — lots of Michael Emerson last week — and now I can piece together the threads.  Thank you all for your patience with my head-scratching posts!

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babyrambo

babyrambo

(edited)
1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

 

I hope someone will explain the Olivia thing. I don’t follow that show, but the only name I can see for her is “saint.Olivia” which I really can’t see how that would be censored.

I only started reading that board a year or two ago, but from what I can gather, it seems that some of the audience thinks that the show has become too much about Olivia Benson (many comments say she’s written as too perfect, inserted in plots and scenes where her presence is unnecessary, and find the fact that she tends to be the one that solves the cases unrealistic? That’s where the nickname comes from I think?) and that there’s a direct correlation between her screen-time and the show’s decline in writing/quality. 

But as someone who started watching the show in s15 and worked backwards to the early years, I think that while it was initially banked as a ensemble show, there’s was always an emphasis on Olivia Benson; one that got more pronounced after Stabler left, sure, but imo those two always felt like co-leads, so the shift to focusing a little more on her after his departure made sense. And maybe I’m biased (I’m always going to root for a complex female lead putting baddies away) but I never minded it. I do agree that the show has become a bit stale and melodramatic, but after 26 years, 20+ episodes, and countless spin-offs, that’s inevitable. Plus most shows that go on for multiple seasons ideally end up focusing more on the leads as they tend to be the mainstays/longest running cast members. Although, sometimes they and the rest of the cast turn into caricatures of their pasts selves, and I think sometimes happens with SVU. And while I get that she isn’t everyone’s favourite, the vitriol towards her definitely surprised me at first, and I can only guess at why (age, gender, rank of her character?) Benson doing this annoys people so much. These are just my thoughts as an infrequent poster/reader of that board though, maybe someone else can better explain. 

Anyway, to keep this on topic, I thought some of the meta bits for this week’s Elsbeth were fun—the shipping stuff definitely rang true, some people can get super intense about their tv couples—but I enjoyed last week’s episode a lot more. 

Edited by babyrambo
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SoMuchTV

SoMuchTV

16 hours ago, babyrambo said:

I only started reading that board a year or two ago, but from what I can gather, it seems that some of the audience thinks that the show has become too much about Olivia Benson (many comments say she’s written as too perfect, inserted in plots and scenes where her presence is unnecessary, and find the fact that she tends to be the one that solves the cases unrealistic? That’s where the nickname comes from I think?) and that there’s a direct correlation between her screen-time and the show’s decline in writing/quality. 

But as someone who started watching the show in s15 and worked backwards to the early years, I think that while it was initially banked as a ensemble show, there’s was always an emphasis on Olivia Benson; one that got more pronounced after Stabler left, sure, but imo those two always felt like co-leads, so the shift to focusing a little more on her after his departure made sense. And maybe I’m biased (I’m always going to root for a complex female lead putting baddies away) but I never minded it. I do agree that the show has become a bit stale and melodramatic, but after 26 years, 20+ episodes, and countless spin-offs, that’s inevitable. Plus most shows that go on for multiple seasons ideally end up focusing more on the leads as they tend to be the mainstays/longest running cast members. Although, sometimes they and the rest of the cast turn into caricatures of their pasts selves, and I think sometimes happens with SVU. And while I get that she isn’t everyone’s favourite, the vitriol towards her definitely surprised me at first, and I can only guess at why (age, gender, rank of her character?) Benson doing this annoys people so much. These are just my thoughts as an infrequent poster/reader of that board though, maybe someone else can better explain. 

Anyway, to keep this on topic, I thought some of the meta bits for this week’s Elsbeth were fun—the shipping stuff definitely rang true, some people can get super intense about their tv couples—but I enjoyed last week’s episode a lot more. 

Thanks, I figured it was something like that.  I was actually more mystified about the word getting filtered out.  Seemed to be filtered only in that one context.  But you're right, we're getting sidetracked.  Maybe I'll play around in the "test" forum.

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Milburn Stone

Milburn Stone

On 12/20/2024 at 2:56 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

This was such a good takedown of the Law and Order world, particularly SVU.

Even as someone who's only watched ten minutes of any L&O in his whole life, I knew this was the target and loved it. The show runner of "Father Crime"--is he physically similar to Dick Wolf? Is Dick Wolf a yeller?

As for Laurie Metcalf--when is she not great? The more over-the-top she is, the more there is to love.

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Zaffy

Zaffy

(edited)

I think Emerson is a bit too much as the main villain of the season, mostly because I had also watched "Evil" (from the same creators as Elsbeth's -highly recommended) where he was also the main and  very evil villain and I honestly think I see his "Evil" character every time he is on screen. It is like he crossed over from one show to another.
I would much prefer he played a good guy and not Elsbeth's possible nemesis.
Still, I  liked her and Captain going together after the judge! 

Case of the week was quite amusing, especially since we all connected it to SVU and the victim to Dick Wolf.

The creators of the show has a past of mocking TV trends. I remember in the "Good Wife" a show within the show "inspired" by the "True Detective". It was hilarious!

Edited by Zaffy
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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

(edited)
On 12/22/2024 at 10:55 AM, Milburn Stone said:

 The show runner of "Father Crime"--is he physically similar to Dick Wolf? Is Dick Wolf a yeller?

If you see older white-haired white men as physically similar then maybe?

I don't think Dick Wolf has much to do with the day-to-day of his shows because he has so many of them.  And other than being stingy when it comes to paying his talent, I am unaware of a volatile reputation. 

I'm wondering if the priest and cop ship is a subtle nod at the King's own show, Evil.  I believe one of the popular couples shipped on that show involved a priest.

Edited by Irlandesa
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JH Lipton

JH Lipton

I also recommend Evil — the male main character is indeed a priest, but the female lead is a psychiatrist.  The show revolves around whether the person-of-the-week is possessed or just crazy.

i loved the digs at their own show: 

“Nobody wants to watch someone who isn’t a cop solve a mystery.”

”He’s won a Tony — of course he’s the killer”

”It’s no fun to watch if you know who did it!”

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Milburn Stone

Milburn Stone

9 hours ago, JH Lipton said:

i loved the digs at their own show: 

“Nobody wants to watch someone who isn’t a cop solve a mystery.”

”He’s won a Tony — of course he’s the killer”

”It’s no fun to watch if you know who did it!”

I caught these too and found them so delightful.

The Kings are really having fun with this show.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

This was a fun episode. I laughed quite a bit, starting with Iwith the whole Father Crime stuff at the very beginning.  A priest coming out a la John Wick on a rampage, complete with two guns a blazin'.

I love how much Kaya loves and knows about tv shows. And yet was so clueless even about MacBeth.

In addition to all the meta-references there were some nice funny lines.  I loved Capt Wagner asking with an exasperated eye-roll 'Ms. Tascioni why are you talking like Batman?'

We already know that 'My people came over on the Mayflower'  murder Judge is a classist snob, but the sly way he said regarding the fancy party: 'Some of us are born for it, and others are invited in for whatever reason..." is also giving racist. The look Wagner's face! Ooh child!

Also given his mention of passing on the message to Elsbeth, I will bet he was a few steps ahead and flagged any requests on the trial transcripts.  No wonder the clerk acted so suspicious.

Finally, would a contentious divorce of an albeit rich/famous person in Chicago merit a major network tv news story?

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auntiemel

auntiemel

It’s funny that so many people saw Father Crime as taking a jab at a variety of different shows, because I thought it was supposed to very obviously be Castle - the cop and the consultant, the classically trained serious actress and the fly by the seat of his pants fun guy, the intense fandom wish to have them together when they loathed each other behind the scenes…that all screamed Castle to me! 
 

But then when I read other peoples’ takes, I could see those points as well! 🤣

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Johannah

Johannah

On 12/23/2024 at 2:32 AM, JH Lipton said:

...

i loved the digs at their own show: 

“Nobody wants to watch someone who isn’t a cop solve a mystery.”

”He’s won a Tony — of course he’s the killer”

”It’s no fun to watch if you know who did it!”

Me, too.  I didn't attach the other things to any particular show, just cop shows in general, but found the references to their own show to be fun.  Elsbeth defending shows where you know whodunnit from the beginning was especially fun.

 

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think the cop procedural is such a formula that they could have been spoofing any or none of the many that have aired over the decades. 

Agree.

I've seen some of the shows mentioned above, but didn't make any specific connections.  

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