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Small Talk: Steel Talking

Meredith Quill

By Meredith Quill
in Supergirl

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Meredith Quill

Meredith Quill

The Small Talk topic is for:

 

  • Introductions
  • Off-topic chatter
  • Having virtual tea with forum buddies

 

This is NOT a topic for actual show discussion. When you want to talk about the show:

 

  1. Figure out the nature of the topic you want to talk about
  2. Look for an existing topic that matches or fits
  3. If there is NOT an existing topic that fits, CREATE ONE!

 

Examples of topics that populate show forums include (but by no means are limited to):

 

  • Character topics
  • Episode topics
  • Season topics
  • Spoiler topics
  • Speculation topics
  • In the Media topics
  • Favourite X topics
  • ...you get the idea

 

Happy trails beyond Small Talk!

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Trini

Trini

Interesting point from the YouTube of the First Look video that I think is worth mentioning is that there was barely a month between the end of principle photography for the pilot and First Look trailer. Why this is relevant is that the FX in the actual pilot (and episodes in general) might be a bit cleaner (although it already looks pretty good for a TV budget) depending on how far ahead of the upfronts they needed the trailer ready.

 

As someone who dabbles in 3D modeling for fun I can tell you there's a world of difference between what a piece looks like after 7 days and what it looks like after 14 days (i.e. an extra seven days... 40+ hours per person involved spent fixing the digital effects to make them look realistic).

 

I don't know if you've watched Fringe, but in Season 3 they had an animated episode (*not the whole episode, though) and I was really disappointed when I found out how little time they spent on it. With a few more weeks it could have looked soooo much better. And Fringe generally had high production values.

 

I think what happened is that they planned it out like a normal episode (pretty much) but they needed to have started much sooner.

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Chris24601

Chris24601

Yeah, that's definitely something that could've used some polish... where taking the time to polish REALLY makes a difference is in making movement more realistic. The basic way you do an animated sequence (ex. the semi exploding for example) is via what's called key frames.

 

Taking the semi exploding for example, you'd position all the parts that going to fly off when the explosion happens in their starting positions and then 'key' them (i.e. the system remembers that position) and then you go however many frames you need to go (there are usually 30 frames per second for television) to reach the end of the effect and then you position each of those parts where you want them to end up and then 'key' them to that location.

 

If you then render out the explosion at that point, each of the parts moves smoothly along a line between its start and end 'keys' over the course of those frames (i.e. if the part starts at 0 and moves to 60 over 30 frames, it would move 2 with every frame). For something like a plane flying in a straight line that's going to look perfectly fine, but something like an explosion is going to look really cheap because they don't really move like that in an explosion (the same goes for those lame running sequences in the Fringe scene above).

 

This is where polishing comes in. It basically involves going in and adding more key frames to more tightly control the objects. In an explosion for example, the parts are going to start out being accelerated by the explosion and so will move faster at first and then slow down a little as air resistance overcomes the intial force of the explosion. Likewise, parts aren't going to fly straight up and keep going forever, gravity will turn those straight lines into arcs. The parts won't stay at a consistant angle either... they're probably spinning through the air and may even break up further in flight... and every one of those things will look better the more key frames you use to precisely control how they move.

 

Motion Pictures can spend up to a YEAR polishing their digital FX (the new Star Wars ended principle photography last fall and they'll be tweeking their effects right up to the week of release this coming winter), but most broadcast television series dont' have much more than two-weeks to get as much polishing as they can done and often have even less.

 

People who compain about how bad the FX are on television compared to movies really need to realize they're comparing a product that's been built and perfected over the course of 2-3 years (including pre- and post-production) and a product that's been assembled from scratch in 2-3 WEEKS (including pre- and post-production).

 

To put this into perspective, in the same span of time it took just from the start of principle photography to release to the release of the 143 minute 'Man of Steel' (August 1, 2011 to June 10, 2013) the team behind "Arrow" produced over 1900 minutes of aired material (46 episodes at about 42 minutes apiece).

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arc

arc

The Phantom Zone talk in the pilot pre-release thread reminded me of another issue I had with Krypton's destruction in general: the usual Superman story has it that Jor-El only built a prototype rocket big enough for his son and ran out of time to build a bigger one that could take the whole family.

 

Even accepting that, once later writers introduced the Phantom Zone, what Jor-El shoulda done is put everyone on the planet in the PZ and put a robot with a PZ projector/gateway in the tiny rocket. There, now everyone is saved.

 

(The 1986 reboot addressed why no one else left Krypton in a different way: long ago Kryptonians genetically altered themselves (or maybe someone else did it?) to be "genetically bound" to the planet, which meant none of them could survive away from Krypton.  Jor-El fixed this for his son right before launching him off-planet.)

 

(I wasn't sure where to put this; it didn't feel quite right for the Supergirl comics discussion cause it's more about Superman)

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I think one of the classic explanations was that nobody else believed Krypton would really be destroyed, confident in their denial until it was too late.

 

On Smallville they not only had the PZ problem, they also had intergalactic portals that connected Krypton and Earth (apparently for coming of age walk-abouts or for sneaking in and viewing the homestead of potential adoptive parents for the kid you are planning on having)  They randomly "closed" and Jor-El stuck only an assistant in the PZ while Lora insisted on staying with him.  Zor-El did weird stuff involving crystal that could create instant replicas of dead Kryptonians.  Yeah, the longer a show goes on, the dumber Superman being known as the last son of Krypton sounds.    

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

(edited)

Yeah, the longer a show goes on, the dumber Superman being known as the last son of Krypton sounds.    

 

Exactly, which is why, by the end of the 1960s, the comics had not only Superman and Supergirl, but also Krypto, Beppo (a monkey that had stowed away in the rocket ship that brought baby Kal to Earth), and an entire Kryptonian city (Kandor, which had been stolen and miniaturized by Brainiac before Krypton exploded).  And those are just the native Kryptonians (Comet and Streaky -- Supergirl's pet horse and cat, respectively -- gained their Kryptonian-like superpowers artificially.  In Comet's case, it was through magic; in Streaky's case, it was through accidental exposure to X-Kryptonite, a form of green Kryptonite that Supergirl accidentally created once while she was trying to invent a cure for Kryptonite poisoning).

 

"Last survivor of Krypton," indeed!

Edited by legaleagle53
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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)

Holy shit I had no idea that comic books had animal sidekick characters. I thought they generally target an older audience. Are they still there?

Edited by FurryFury
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MarkHB

MarkHB

Comics in the core of the Silver Age, appx. 1956-1970, were usually aimed at ages c. 13 and under, at least partly because the original version of the Comics Code really eliminated anything more "adult."  Most of the animal sidekicks quietly vanished during the 70's, but if you've never read it I would strongly urge you to read the two-issue "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?", written by Alan Moore, which was the farewell salute to the pre-Crisis Superman and features Krypto the Super-Dog.  One thing to note about that story (and when you read it you'll know why I bring it up) is that it was published 11 months after the original Supergirl died in Crisis on Infinite Earths #7.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Maybe we need a "Superman family mythos" thread? --If that doesn't overlap too much with "Supergirl in the Comics".

Or maybe just make it "Super in the Comics" rather than specifically Supergirl.  What they do for one Kryptonian often applies to the other. 

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arc

arc

I think one of the classic explanations was that nobody else believed Krypton would really be destroyed, confident in their denial until it was too late.

Right, but even so, Jor-El and Lara believed it enough that they would have at least gone as a complete nuclear family if they could have.  Which, ultimately, is why I like the Byrne reboot's version the most -- it explains why a the top scientist on a planet of super-science didn't just build a slightly bigger rocket.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Which, ultimately, is why I like the Byrne reboot's version the most -- it explains why a the top scientist on a planet of super-science didn't just build a slightly bigger rocket.

 

This may be a strange thing to say about an alien race that has super strength and can fly if they visit earth, but I just have a hard time buying into the gene that doesn't allow them to leave their home planet.  It stretches credulity too much.   

 

I could understand not wanting to let anyone Kryptonian reach a planet powered by the yellow sun that gives them powers but they had a universe to explore.  Why not let do a gene that lets them explore similar home planets?  Also, if Jor-El could fix his son, why couldn't he fix himself or his wife?  And then how was Supergirl explained and Zod and a host of other Kryptonians that constantly wander through the comics. 

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

This may be a strange thing to say about an alien race that has super strength and can fly if they visit earth, but I just have a hard time buying into the gene that doesn't allow them to leave their home planet.  It stretches credulity too much.   

 

I could understand not wanting to let anyone Kryptonian reach a planet powered by the yellow sun that gives them powers but they had a universe to explore.  Why not let do a gene that lets them explore similar home planets?  Also, if Jor-El could fix his son, why couldn't he fix himself or his wife?  And then how was Supergirl explained and Zod and a host of other Kryptonians that constantly wander through the comics. 

 

The "Supergirl" who followed the 1986 reboot wasn't from Krypton.  She was an artificial life form originally created by a Lex Luthor from an alternate pocket universe.  Her powers weren't the same as Superman's  powers, either; she only had super speed, super strength, flight, telekinesis, total invisibility, and shapeshifting ability, plus the ability to project a force field around herself that mimicked Superman's invulnerability.  Later on, she merged with a human girl, Linda Danvers, and in addition to the powers she had, was given a pair of fiery wings which, among other things, gave her the power to create wormholes, or "shunts" that would take her across space.

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arc

arc

The "Supergirl" who followed the 1986 reboot wasn't from Krypton.  She was an artificial life form originally created by a Lex Luthor from an alternate pocket universe.

Same deal with 86-era Zod: also pocket universe.  (The pocket universe Kryptonians were basically Silver Age Kryptonians.)

 

Also, if Jor-El could fix his son, why couldn't he fix himself or his wife? 

Well... it wasn't just the gene, though arguably an infant still in the "gestation matrix" could take gene therapy better?  I dunno.  More than that, though, that version of Krypton was passionless and sterile and Jor-El kinda decided for Lara and everyone that the entire planet's culture deserved to die, and that Kal-El would be raised with human values.  It sounded slightly less terrible in the actual comics than my recap.

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Trini

Trini

Or maybe just make it "Super in the Comics" rather than specifically Supergirl.  What they do for one Kryptonian often applies to the other. 

 

"Supergirl (and Other Kryptonians) in the Comics" ?

"Supergirl and Other Comics Topics" ?

"Supergirl in the DC Universe" ?

 

Someone please come up with something less clunky....

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

43 minutes ago, Trini said:

:(

Well, that's terrible. Less terrible: I guess Cat's son, Adam, is never going to make another appearance.

Maybe they'd recast?  Arrow recast Sara from the pilot.  Not the same as recasting an actor that had appeared in two episodes and who's main appeal was that he was MB's husband...yeah, you're right, we're never seeing him again.  I guess it's not such a loss since we won't have Cat around so much either.  

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Bort

Bort

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Either way, because I recently did my annual marathon watch of Smallville, I've noted that a slew of writers and produce from that show are involved in Arrow, The Flash, Legends, Supergirl. Exception being the hacks that took over after season seven and the original show runners.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Steven DeKnight show up eventually.

Answering in Small Talk because I didn't want to go off the rails in the episode thread, but interestingly, the Smallville writers that are NOT working on the current crop of DC shows were over on Brannon Braga's show, Salem. Which was a really good show, they have a talent for the horror genre.

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

3 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Answering in Small Talk because I didn't want to go off the rails in the episode thread, but interestingly, the Smallville writers that are NOT working on the current crop of DC shows were over on Brannon Braga's show, Salem. Which was a really good show, they have a talent for the horror genre.

My bad. Should I move my original post over to this thread?

I stopped watching Salem in its first season because I couldn't deal with the anachronistic dialogue and grossness.

Plus, I'm not really a fan of horror.

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Bort

Bort

No, yours was fine. I just wanted to reply but didn't have anything else to say about the episode, so I quoted it here.

I loved Salem. Gross, yes, but damn, it was good. And surprisingly dirty. The anachronisms didn't bother me.

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kalamac

kalamac

Question time: I've been rewatching the whole series, and the Thanksgiving episode reminded me of something I've always wanted to ask Americans/Canadians (we don't have Thanksgiving in Australia). Do families really do the thing you always see on TV where they go around the table and say what they're thankful for. Because whenever I see it on a show, all I can think is that all that nicely prepared food must be going cold while everyone talks, and if you have a really large family, or one of those relatives that just will not shut the fuck up if they have a captive audience, anything with gravy or sauce must be all congealed and gross by the time everyone actually gets to eat.

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shantown

shantown

19 minutes ago, kalamac said:

Question time: I've been rewatching the whole series, and the Thanksgiving episode reminded me of something I've always wanted to ask Americans/Canadians (we don't have Thanksgiving in Australia). Do families really do the thing you always see on TV where they go around the table and say what they're thankful for. Because whenever I see it on a show, all I can think is that all that nicely prepared food must be going cold while everyone talks, and if you have a really large family, or one of those relatives that just will not shut the fuck up if they have a captive audience, anything with gravy or sauce must be all congealed and gross by the time everyone actually gets to eat.

It is a tradition in my family at least, but we also continue eating/drinking as people are sharing what they're thankful for. It also usually doesn't take as long as it does on TV and we usually aren't interrupted by super villains. 

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secnarf

secnarf

27 minutes ago, kalamac said:

Question time: I've been rewatching the whole series, and the Thanksgiving episode reminded me of something I've always wanted to ask Americans/Canadians (we don't have Thanksgiving in Australia). Do families really do the thing you always see on TV where they go around the table and say what they're thankful for. Because whenever I see it on a show, all I can think is that all that nicely prepared food must be going cold while everyone talks, and if you have a really large family, or one of those relatives that just will not shut the fuck up if they have a captive audience, anything with gravy or sauce must be all congealed and gross by the time everyone actually gets to eat.

My family doesn't - maybe a few times when I was little when my parents tried to make an effort for us, but not in at least fifteen years. I always kind of felt like we should, but my family doesn't really do things like that.

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kalamac

kalamac

Thanks for the answers. @shantown I can see it being a nice thing to do, the way your family does it, eating while you share, not after.

@secnarf my family doesn't either, so I can't imagine it happening if we did celebrate Thanksgiving. We're not really get together and share things type people any time of year.

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Trini

Trini

On 2/17/2017 at 9:01 PM, kalamac said:

Do families really do the thing you always see on TV where they go around the table and say what they're thankful for.

My family has done that, but not every year.

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