S11.E29: 2024 Election Results

[Lantern7]

I have my doubts about the existence of a higher power, even before Tuesday. If one exists and it can extend blessings to those who care, may John Oliver never want. Of course, he’s probably craving tobacco, alcohol and/or drugs as he tries to pan for silver linings.

Tucker Carlson’s mom left him $1 in her will. One, that’s a big piece of the puzzle, isn’t it? Two, I bet you smiled hearing that . . . because fuck that guy.

At least John is trying to find reasonable, realistic hope. I don’t know if it’ll be enough to revive my failing emotions, but at least he’s trying.

[buttersister]

Thank you, John. Don’t go anywhere. Please.

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Tucker Carlson’s mom left him $1 in her will. One, that’s a big piece of the puzzle, isn’t it? Two, I bet you smiled hearing that . . . because fuck that guy.

I genuinely did not know that, but I agree with John that that explains a  LOT, and also, it could not happen to a more deserving asshole. 

John's full on fit of anger at the "Oh, I bet you love having Trump in office 'cause of all the material he gives you" - that intense rant ant pounding on the desk pretty much sums up how I felt on Tuesday and Wednesday, and how I still feel in general. I think that should be made into a gif that can be pulled out for use at any time the next four years. Same with his reaction to fucking Elon Musk talking about how people need to "live within their means" - the whole thing of having a few choice words that he literally could not say without legal repercusions is a MOOD. 

Also, reading the list of people that are rushing to be ready for potential cabinet positions for Trump's administration is depressing beyond words. Hoy shit, what a nigthmare group. 

But I really appreciate how he pointed out how insane the media analysis has been thus far in the wake of this election, from the contradictory messages about how Democrats need to either move to the left or move to the center to the braindead whining about how trans righs are such a turnoff for voters. I absolutely LOVED John's response to that, pointing out where the REAL threat to women in sports actually lies. 

(To say nothing of how the same people who claim to give such a shit about "fair treatment of women" in sports never seem to chime in when it comes to how women's sports are covered in the media, or how theiy're paid in comparison to maile athletes. Get bent, you transphobic creeps.)

I do very much appreciate John highlighting the few positive outcomes of the election this week (I'd love to know how the people griping about trans rights being a turn off to voters expain transgender people being elected to various political offices this week), and I'm also comforted and heartened by the people who have already begun organizing and are planning and laying out their response to whatever elements of Project 2025 Trump's administration does implement/tries to implement. And I sincerely do hope that the Biden adminstration spends the next two months doing everything they can to put as many protections in place now before Trump takes office - I fully agree just quitting now and going home for the holidays is a shitty response at a time when we literally cannot afford to wait. 

And I definitely plan to do my part to help out wherever I'm able these next four years, be it financially or with any groups that may be available in my area or things of that sort. 

But yes, this episode was also extremely cathartic in terms of the horror and frustration and anger at the fact that we have to fucking do all of this again because too many people apparently didn't pay any sort of attention to what was actually going on, or somehow think they're going to be the special exception to Trump's policies. So many people are about to be in for an extremely rude awakening, and it's going to be hard for me to have much, if any, sympathy for them. 

And I say all of this as someone who is lower class and always has been. I KNOW economic anxiety. Believe me, I know it. My family has been through it at various points thorughout my lifetime. We have been in the situation where we literally had to decide between food and heat. My parents have worked more than one job to help keep a roof over our heads. My family racked up so many medical debts because of my dad's health issues, and this was pre-Obamacare, so we didn't even get the protections and help that could've provided us. We have had to live in motels because we didn't have a proper place to live. So believe me, I know what it is like to deal with economic struggles.

And yet I STILL never once looked at Trump and thought he was going to magically be the savior who would make my family's economic lives better. There are a lot of reasons why things played out as they did on Tuesday, for sure, but the fact remains that ignorance and selfishness were a big part of it as well. At some point people have to learn to wake up and pay attention and take responsibility for their own lack of understanding of the issues. 

Edited Monday at 11:37 AM by Annber03

[Lantern7]

31 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I genuinely did not know that, but I agree with John that that explains a  LOT, and also, it could not happen to a more deserving asshole. 

John's full on fit of anger at the "Oh, I bet you love having Trump in office 'cause of all the material he gives you" - that intense rant ant pounding on the desk pretty much sums up how I felt on Tuesday and Wednesday, and how I still feel in general.

If you look at the area between the start of John's year in 2021 and when Trump popped back into the mainstream cycle, you'll notice that John had no lack of topics. Things had to be addressed. No matter who's in charge, there will be problems, and John will highlight them. He doesn't need HIM to make his show more interesting.

33 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Also, reading the list of people that are rushing to be ready for potential cabinet positions for Trump's administration is depressing beyond words. Hoy shit, what a nigthmare group.

Has anyone here watch Slap Shot? Classic hockey movie from the Seventies starring Paul Newman? In the climatic game, the team decides that they aren't going to be thugs, that they're going to play clean "old-time" hockey. And then they see that their opponents brought in the dirtiest, most brutal players a minor league team could find. One of them was deported from Canada, only to go back after being deported from the U.S. because he was that vicious. That group has nothing on the possible Cabinet nominees. Side note: isn't free association fun?

[kittykat]

38 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Has anyone here watch Slap Shot? Classic hockey movie from the Seventies starring Paul Newman? In the climatic game, the team decides that they aren't going to be thugs, that they're going to play clean "old-time" hockey. And then they see that their opponents brought in the dirtiest, most brutal players a minor league team could find. One of them was deported from Canada, only to go back after being deported from the U.S. because he was that vicious. That group has nothing on the possible Cabinet nominees. Side note: isn't free association fun?

Good ol Ogie Oglethorpe.  Don't forget they abandon old time hockey in the second half after learning scouts are present 🤣🤣

When John started banging the desk so so hard that was the mood.  That was the whole mood right there.

When John was playing through all the conflicting reasons why Kamala lost I do wish that he had brought up that being a black woman likely was a major reason even though most say "economy" but I get why he didn't want to open that can of worms.

Still wrangling with the idea that states that went for Trump but still struck down abortion bans.  I mean, good for them but why the Trump still!!?

I'm glad I got to laugh a little bit.  Usually the post election episode is the season finale but looks like this isn't it.

[Palimelon]

Quote

To say nothing of how the same people who claim to give such a shit about "fair treatment of women" in sports never seem to chime in when it comes to how women's sports are covered in the media, or how theiy're paid in comparison to maile athletes. Get bent, you transphobic creeps.

I find it interesting how some women I have seen who say that "women are the equal of men and can do anything a man can do" start hyperventilating about trans women in sports because women suddenly "can't win against men".

Edited Monday at 08:31 AM by Palimelon

[Anela]

I can't watch this yet. I haven't been able to watch anything - I've avoided the news, avoided political streamers. I was waiting for the election to be over, to watch Kamala's big speeches from the last couple of weeks, and the SNL episode, and now I guess I won't watch them for a while. I was waiting until it felt safe to do so. :(

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, kittykat said:

When John was playing through all the conflicting reasons why Kamala lost I do wish that he had brought up that being a black woman likely was a major reason even though most say "economy" but I get why he didn't want to open that can of worms.

I think he should have ripped the protest voters a new one too.

“It’s time to be the helpers” was the perfect way to end it. We don’t want to have to do this again, but we have no choice.

Edited Monday at 11:48 AM by Spartan Girl

[peeayebee]

Yeah, we have to allow all the data to come in before we announce the definite reasons why Trump won. I think any explanation offered is probably true at least in part. Lies about the economy. Lies about immigrants. Hatred of black women, particularly those wanting to lead. Fear of change. Anti-incumbancy feelings. Racism. Protest votes. Owning the libs. Loving authorianism. Xenophobia. Ignorance. Low-information voters. 

Did I miss anything?

 

When it comes to following the news next year (even this year), I'm going to avoid videos of these guys talking. I just can't listen to them. Transcripts will do.

"Guess Who? Oops! All Assholes" did make me laugh. Thanks, John.

[arachne]

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

John's full on fit of anger at the "Oh, I bet you love having Trump in office 'cause of all the material he gives you"

Stephen Colbert had the perfect rejoinder for that last week. He said that's like telling the janitor who cleans toilets, You must love people with explosive diarrhea, look at all the material it gives you! 

[DoctorAtomic]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I think he should have ripped the protest voters a new one too.

I think the people who stayed home are worse. For me, I could have written in my dog and it wouldn't have mattered. I don't really think the protest votes cost the election this time around. 

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Yeah, we have to allow all the data to come in before we announce the definite reasons why Trump won.

Sarah Isgur, who I listen to on Left, Right, Center, noted that Harris lost as much as Trump won. GIven that the actual vote was about half and half, I can buy that, and not anything of a 'mandate'. You win PA by, for example, maybe a little under 100,000 votes. Is that a 'red' state now? No. Abortion on the ballot has only taken 3 losses out of 15 or so? The country still remains largely left of center socially. Sure, Trump over performed. Like he does all the time. Higher turn out, it's a whole different game. 

Also, voters are dumb. Talking about 'policy' is worthless. I'm interested in what excuses are going to be made when prices aren't going down. I'm also looking forward to the news pieces on how this is the biggest holiday shopping season ever. 

I also think the media bears some role here in normalizing the absolute gibberish coming out of his mouth. 

I would think as a comedy writer Trump would be kind of a bore. He's not smart; his deal is played out. I suppose if you're a hack, then he gives you easy material. Good writers can mine material out of anything. But you kind of have to write about him because he's always in the news. All the time. 

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Also, reading the list of people that are rushing to be ready for potential cabinet positions for Trump's administration is depressing beyond words. Hoy shit, what a nigthmare group.

The senate still has to approve them. I know for most they will, but I'm betting there would be one or two that won't. I tend to think these people are too inept to actually do anything. 

[Spartan Girl]

7 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think the people who stayed home are worse.

Oh I was talking about them too.

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Yeah, we have to allow all the data to come in before we announce the definite reasons why Trump won. I think any explanation offered is probably true at least in part. Lies about the economy. Lies about immigrants. Hatred of black women, particularly those wanting to lead. Fear of change. Anti-incumbancy feelings. Racism. Protest votes. Owning the libs. Loving authorianism. Xenophobia. Ignorance. Low-information voters. 

Did I miss anything?

 

Apparently a lot of people want to be assholes. Angry, insulting, self righteous. Apparently social media was used to effect. I think, though, not  just the stuff you list, but the permission to take it out on the street and yell about it at passing cars. Permission to insult possible immigrants because they are scum. Etc. permission to be a jerk. 

Edited Monday at 06:57 PM by Affogato

[Makai]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The senate still has to approve them. I know for most they will, but I'm betting there would be one or two that won't. I tend to think these people are too inept to actually do anything. 

Trump’s already demanding that those vying to be Speaker of the House, support recess appointments so that he can bypass the confirmation process. Apparently, it’s a move straight out of Project 2025. I’m sure democrats will try and stop it but we will have to see.

He’s also demanding they the don’t approve in judicial nominees. 

Edited Monday at 08:00 PM by Makai

[Lugal]

Racism and misogyny definitely played a part and I won't deny it, but I think the economy really was a big factor.  I saw something about 14% fewer people who make less than $100,000 a year came out to vote.  They didn't see anything in either of the policies offered, and I can't really blame them.  People are struggling and Biden/Harris failed to offer them anything.  Trump didn't offer them anything either, but was able to at least play lip service to their concerns.  Like the old saying, "You can't con an honest man, but you can con a desperate one."

Due to an accident of history, mostly due to the pandemic, under Trump the US built up an almost European-style social welfare system and people found their situations somewhat more stable.  Then under Biden all that went away.  Now a lot of it was outside the control of either Trump or Biden, but just the optics meant Biden, and by extension Harris, was already running uphill.  And since 2020 and the inflation crisis, nearly every incumbent government has been turned out.

I don't think a lot of people voted for Trump, so much as voted against Biden and Harris.  It didn't help with Harris running to the right and trying to court Republicans who were never going to vote for her.  All of which, unfortunately, left only the alternative of Trump.  I'm willing to bet that within six months, when Trump has failed to solve their problems, people will have turned on him.

Edited Monday at 08:58 PM by Lugal
clarification

[DoctorAtomic]

Trump got less votes than 2020 iirc. So I don't know if they were voting against Harris. Possibly. He did pick up new voters, but still less of them overall. I still think it's the people who stayed home that were the deciding factor. 

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, arachne said:

Stephen Colbert had the perfect rejoinder for that last week. He said that's like telling the janitor who cleans toilets, You must love people with explosive diarrhea, look at all the material it gives you! 

I loved that, too :D. Spot on comparison. 

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I would think as a comedy writer Trump would be kind of a bore. He's not smart; his deal is played out. I suppose if you're a hack, then he gives you easy material. Good writers can mine material out of anything. But you kind of have to write about him because he's always in the news. All the time. 

Boring and exhausting. That's another reason I do not get how Trump won again. How the fuck are people not beyond sick and tired of him and his antics by now, a decade later? I got tired of him after just, like, a week of his bullshit back after he came down that escalator. If that. Why the hell does anyone still want to listen to his nonsense rambling and constant whining even now? 

[Affogato]

I think the perception of the economy was a factor. I don’t understand why they think people like Trump and his buddies like Musk have any interest in supporting cheap available housing, even if tariffs didn’t make materials to build unavailable (or really more expensive)and deportation didn’t get rid of many construction workers. How will food prices drop with the loss of seasonal farm workers and imports. How many of the cheaper clothes/shoes are or will be made in this country?  So why they think it will help them, very odd. And medical costs, oh lord. 

Edited Monday at 09:45 PM by Affogato

[Affogato]

My belief is that Trump is a puppet of people who are using him for their own ends. His recent moves have made this obvious. He has never shown much legislative education or subtlety. He is clearly easily manipulated with flattery. This is hugely frightening. 

[peeayebee]

Nude pics of Melania just played on Russian TV. Seems like Putin showing Trump who's the boss. What else has he got up his sleeve?

[Makai]

On 11/11/2024 at 11:35 AM, Lugal said:

Due to an accident of history, mostly due to the pandemic, under Trump the US built up an almost European-style social welfare system and people found their situations somewhat more stable.  Then under Biden all that went away.  Now a lot of it was outside the control of either Trump or Biden, but just the optics meant Biden, and by extension Harris, was already running uphill.  And since 2020 and the inflation crisis, nearly every incumbent government has been turned out.

I really think this was a key factor. Trump’s major economic policies weren’t passed until 2018 and then with COVID protections they didn’t start to impact average Americans until Biden was in office. Just like Biden’s economic policies passed in 2022 will be perceived of a result of Trump’s policies (assuming they aren’t repealed). Economic policies have a lag that skews perspective. It’s a phenomenon particularly prominent in one term presidents. What most people think was Trump’s economy was the after effects of Obama’s second term and COVID subsidies.

Edited Wednesday at 05:18 AM by Makai

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Yeah, we have to allow all the data to come in before we announce the definite reasons why Trump won. I think any explanation offered is probably true at least in part. Lies about the economy. Lies about immigrants. Hatred of black women, particularly those wanting to lead. Fear of change. Anti-incumbancy feelings. Racism. Protest votes. Owning the libs. Loving authorianism. Xenophobia. Ignorance. Low-information voters…

12 hours ago, peeayebee said:

…Did I miss anything?

Time differential. Trump ran for 8 years. Harris had about 100 days. We heard people didn't know her, but we didn't realize they meant they really didn't know her. Like: What's her name?

ETA:  But otherwise, nice, concise list, @peeayebee.

Edited Tuesday at 03:48 AM by shapeshifter

[Hanahope]

People may have buyers remorse about Trump after a year or two or three, but in the meantime how much will be destroyed that can’t be fixed afterwards?  Course we are also hoping we get a vote again.

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, Hanahope said:

People may have buyers remorse about Trump after a year or two or three, but in the meantime how much will be destroyed that can’t be fixed afterwards?  Course we are also hoping we get a vote again.

The environment and human rights are both vulnerable. So many things.  

[DoctorAtomic]

I think it's fair to a point that Harris had less time to gear up because a few of those blunders would have occurred a year and a half ago and people would have forgotten. 

However, you know who you were voting for by July anyway. It's not like with Biden's debate performance you were suddenly switching. You might stay home and that happened anyway. We don't need two year election cycles. Ten months is more than enough. Lean and mean. Clearly, a cool billion dollars didn't do anything anyway. 

I also wouldn't waste the resources on undecided voters. 

[peeayebee]

I don't know how it's done, but I wish campaigning could be restricted to 1 month or whatever makes sense. I believe they do this in other countries. (Not necessarily a month.)

[DoctorAtomic]

I'd require candidates to officially declare in January of the election year. You still want one or two debates, and then have the primaries over two months/ten to twelve weeks or so. You still have the nominees for a good 5+ months to campaign nationally. 

It's still long, but way way shorter than now. 

There's nothing stopping anyone from forming exploratory committees beforehand or going on talk shows. 

I'd also get rid of this nonsense about NH and IA going first all the time for no reason. 

[Palimelon]

The whole system of campaign donations also needs lots and lots of reform. But that needs a lot of work.

[marina to]

On 11/11/2024 at 2:35 PM, Lugal said:

 People are struggling and Biden/Harris failed to offer them anything. 

I really hate this narrative because they offered a lot. Despite pushback, Biden did manage to forgive a lot of student debt and created a lot of jobs. Harris had a fantastic plan to help rural communities, families with young children, and those with lower incomes while going after big companies to pay their fair share and rein in price gouging. What's frustrating is that it all got lost. The same thing happened to HRC as well. 

[Hanahope]

I am just disgusted that people preferred a convicted criminal who was also twice impeached as president 

[bilgistic]

Never underestimate the depths to which humanity will sink.